S05.E11: Abraham Stern

[MostlyC]

Quote

Red draws the attention of a cunning manipulator when he goes in search of a legendary treasure; Liz heads down a dark path as she studies the methods of a dangerous criminal.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Lizzie may think that she's smart, but getting a list of chemicals and some crib notes from a case file does not make you the Stewmaster.  Not even close.
Her little heist from Police lockup was just lame.

The Mint heist was beyond stupid -- the whole nonsense with the van with the giant vacuum and no alarms went off.  Come on.

Nathan Lane was wasted as a Blacklister.  Did Stern not realize that he could have damaged or destroyed the penny in that car crash ?  The episode would have ended right there.

Good to see Glenn again.

Last time I checked, Denver was several hours by plane from D.C., yet Ressler and Navabi somehow arrived within minutes.

It was just all so boring.

[Neiman]

The second she put that bloody rag in the sink, I was wondering what in the world was she thinking.  How stupid, yet how fortunate that she has the connections to sneak in and steal the evidence.  Wonder if she also thought about doing something to her trunk to throw off the scent of any future cadaver dog.  

What was going on with that guy's eye?  Could there have been a camera in it? Imagine being on the other end of that!

[ottoDbusdriver]

19 minutes ago, Neiman said:

What was going on with that guy's eye?  Could there have been a camera in it? Imagine being on the other end of that!

If that was a camera in that prosthetic eye, that means whoever was watching knows Lizzie killed Navarro.  I doubt it was a bionic eye, like the Six Million Dollar Man.

Still no sign of the dogs, nor mentions of Agnes.

Edited January 18, 2018 by ottoDbusdriver

[Dowel Jones]

I want the van that Stern used to T-bone Red's car.  Just seconds after the collision, as the camera pans around, the van is showed slowing to a stop, with nary a dent on the front end.  Tough!

Heh.  "Blueteeth connections" (Red).  "He died penniless" (Stern).  The writers are having fun.

The mint robbery was certainly ludicrous, but it was kind of good fun to watch the setup, just like The Sting, back in the day.

[Neiman]

Some of Red's lines are hysterical.  So funny when he talked about the rotary phones and dialing zero.  ?

[Mysteyman]

I loved the rotary line, too and the final bit with  Reds new hat.

Loved the Churchill link as well.

I bet the producers are really happy that Darkest Hour is out right now.

[Dowel Jones]

Personally I think that Red wears a snap brim Fedora much better than that Homburg, but it is Churchill's hat, after all.  When Liz expressed amazement that he was giving up the penny, I said to the tv, the value of anything is only what you and/or someone else puts on it.  That penny might just end up sitting under a glass, doing nothing.  A hat that means something to Red is far more valuable to him. 

[paigow]

Lifting Navarro should have busted her wound open....

Is Matthew Broderick on next??? "The Producer [# 108] "

                                                        "Simba [# 198]"

Edited January 18, 2018 by paigow

[Kelda Feegle]

Happy to admit I found this episode hilarious. Also just as happy if I never hear about Agnes again, shame about the dogs but they are in a better place wherever they are now.

[Neiman]

I liked that Red found great pleasure in obtaining the Churchill hat, but I don't think it looked very good on him.

I wouldn't mind if Agnes & Liz's dogs were never mentioned again.  

[Loandbehold]

As a former coin collector (back in my early teens), I wept at how everyone was handling the penny. Of course, Nathan Lane already put it in circulation, but, still, it loses value when pawed at. I guess it might be still worth a lot for those who know the mystery, which nobody else knows has been solved. On the other hand, for mystery purposes, the coin doesn't have much value unless you obtain the entire set.

[Biggie B]

I thought this was a pretty good episode. Again, Liz actually showed some smarts, sort of. She definitely seemed more competent than she ever has. That 'bionic eye' was creepy, and most likely, no good will come of it. 

I long ago stopped wondering about the dogs. They'll never be seen again, that's clear, and at this point, it would actually be weird if she came back to wherever she's living and there were the dogs. I guess when there are different teams of script writers and no one is paying attention to the details, something like having a dog can get overlooked and omitted from script to script.  Lack of continuity and all that jazz. It's better that she doesn't have them...she's not capable of caring for dogs or children and can barely keep herself alive. The fewer living beings she has to be responsible for, the better. 

I also agree that Churchill's hat didn't really look good on Red, but clearly it was so emotionally important to him that that didn't matter. 

I liked seeing Nathan Lane - he's always a pleasure. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

What was Red's plan if Stern had apologized and then simply shot him, as he'd done with the other helpers who were loose ends?

[saber5055]

I do other things while this show is on, which is good because it allows me to gloss over the stupidity of the ginormous plot holes. I missed why Glenn is in hospital, although I guess it doesn't matter. It also doesn't matter that those police coming into Navarro's apartment couldn't smell the cleaning solutions. Bleach and other cleaners smell. A lot. But whatever. The high point was Nathan Lane, a fabulous actor, who was fabulous in this role. He beats Spader by miles, who now just relies on his chewing and head tilting to "act." As for the storyline ... eh. I trust you guys to keep me informed.

[Just my 2 cents]

As far as the dogs and Agnes, I'm going with the thought they never existed, just like Jennifer Reddington the daughter of Naomi and Raymond Reddington.  It's too frustrating to think about and I assume when you get new writers this happens

I'm too lazy to be original so I'll just cut and paste my comment from another board.  My apologies if you've already read it. 

Some are accusing Liz of crossing the line. I would, but I have no leg to stand on. For years, I've complained that for the daughter of two spies she comes across as dumb, incompetent, and does not learn from them or her mistakes. At the cabin she was in danger and defended herself albeit extreme. Last night, she made a mistake doing something she really shouldn't have done.. She did not murder Navarro, but was responsible for his death and had no choice, but to cover it up. Just short of either owning or having a friend that owned a crematorium, she used the best option. I can't complain about her being useless and helpless. I also loved for once she was jerking around Red and not the other way around. However, I do think that when emotions are involved we can get ourselves into trouble and I believe if that hasn't already happened with Navarro's high tech eye it will eventually happen, causing her to need help. In the meantime I intend to try and enjoy and forget about some of the things that have frustrated me this season and in the past

[milkyaqua]

Enjoyed Nathan Lane but agreed he was sort of wasted.

Liz makes a dumb mistake (like usual) and steals evidence.  Of course, there are no cameras around the evidence locker?  Seriously?

The false eye is probably going to come back and bite her in the butt which is why I'm glad she told Red about it.

Churchill's hat didn't really look good on Red but it made him happy.

I don't miss Agnes either but I do wish the dogs well.  Continuity is not this show's strong suit.  I'm beyond ready for the who killed Tom storyline to be over.  The only interesting thing about it is going to be how Red dances his way out of it.

Always good to see Glenn and loved Red's get well note.

Edited January 18, 2018 by milkyaqua

[paigow]

2 hours ago, saber5055 said:

I missed why Glenn is in hospital, 

He took some drugs- that cause bleeding- in the police station to create a medical emergency / distraction / misdirection so Liz could break into the evidence room.

[Such A Flirt]

How did Liz carry that big dude all over the place? And also without attraction any attention? That bugged me.

 

I did love the music call-back to the Stewmaster episode during the tub scene.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

1) Why would the Gabor Museum that has the coin on loan file a fraud claim if the coin was a forgery?  Wouldn't that be for the University of Pennsylvania (which owns the coin) to do?

2) "What do we owe the pleasure" (said by Liz to Singleton on the phone right after she copied the Stewmaker's file) is not a phrase.  It's "To what do we owe the pleasure?" is the correct phrase.

On 1/18/2018 at 6:43 PM, Such A Flirt said:

How did Liz carry that big dude all over the place? And also without attraction any attention? That bugged me.

3) Yes, and when she carried out the empty body bag, where were the empty bottles of chemicals?  And all the plastic, duct tape (that she touched with her bare hands), the timer and the mask? And does anyone investigate if someone buys massive amounts of fluorosulfuric acid, etc, or are we to assume that Liz paid cash at various stores?

She also had her hair hanging down when she was scrubbing the blood out of the tub and found the eye, though I suppose it was unlikely that she would be traced to that motel.

I also wondered if a tub comprised of separate tiles and lots of grout could withstand the chemical reaction that dissolved the body.

 

On 1/18/2018 at 6:18 PM, paigow said:

On 1/18/2018 at 3:25 PM, saber5055 said:

I missed why Glenn is in hospital, 

He took some drugs- that cause bleeding- in the police station to create a medical emergency / distraction / misdirection so Liz could break into the evidence room.

4) The drug reaction mimicked the symptoms of a heart attack.  But what if Red hadn't come to Liz to break the penny out of the police evidence vault (which is why she notified the police about the penny)?  How would she have gotten the rag back?  Would she have approached Red?

5) What happens when the police tech officers investigate out the "packet sniffer" phone that Liz gave Det. Singleton and which he put into evidence?  If it's blank, it's going to look very suspicious.

6) It bothered me that Liz wasn't wearing any kind of gloves when she accessed the evidence room.  Her prints are all over the keypad, the door, and the cartons of evidence.  I would think Singleton would have at least had the keypad dusted for prints once he realized the rag was missing, unless they have excellent cleaners on staff who wipe the pad down daily.

7) When Stern swore on his father's grave, I assume it would turn out that his father wasn't buried in a grave, but was in a mausoleum or something.  It really didn't make sense that he didn't just kill Red.

Edited January 21, 2018 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Ottis]

It’s ridiculous that Liz could fool Red. Is this some kind of Flowers for Algernon thing?

[Just my 2 cents]

35 minutes ago, Ottis said:

It’s ridiculous that Liz could fool Red. Is this some kind of Flowers for Algernon thing?

Normally I would think no, but he's gotten so used to pulling the wool over her eyes and her accepting it.  She always calls him for answers and when she's in trouble and has pretty much come across for the past 5 years as being dense and helpless without Red, Tom, or the Team.  Eventually people get used to it and don't expect much from you so it's possible to get away with some things you normally wouldn't.  I doubt she'll be able to do it to Red again now that he's aware of her deception.

Edited January 19, 2018 by ally

[Drusilla]

Do we really have to wait to the end of the season for Red to give Useless Lizzie a third eye??

[saber5055]

Thanks, paigow, for explaining Glenn-in-the-hospital. I really WASN'T paying close attention to this episode, even though I was sitting right next to the TV screen. *yawn* I guess. ItCouldBeWorse's post: "I also wondered if a tub comprised of separate tiles and lots of grout could withstand the chemical reaction that dissolved the body." immediately brought to mind Breaking Bad, S1, when Jesse acid-decomposes a body in his bathtub and the whole tub falls through the ceiling. A memorable scene! And better done than anything on BL.

[yourmomiseasy]

Revenge Lizzie is the best Lizzie -- even better than Zombie Lizzie.  I mean sure she just dumped her kid off and doesn't care if it ends up with 2 dead parents, but I'll overlook that.  She's also still dumb -- leaving a bloody rag in the garbage disposal, just stealing the rag instead of replacing it with one with animal blood or something, and being practically naked while dealing with flesh eating chemicals.  But at least she's doing something that's not throwing tantrums at Red, screwing things up, or waiting to be saved.  Hopefully she'll get better at crime as she goes along, although she should already be pretty good given her previous vocation and who she associates with.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 1/19/2018 at 4:17 PM, yourmomiseasy said:

and being practically naked while dealing with flesh eating chemicals.

Hm. Before disposing of the body, Liz scrubbed herself in the shower with what looked like peroxide which I thought was an attempt not to leave loose skin cells later, but didn't really make sense to me since her hair wasn't covered later and could easily have been shed. Could she have been coating herself with something resistant to the flesh-eating chemicals in case they splashed on her?

[willco]

Just because it bugs me when writers don't do any research- and in this case it would have only taken a couple of  minutes- Red got the story about the 1943 Lincoln penny really wrong. Lincoln's are made of mostly copper, but in 1943 they switched to steel for that year in order to save the copper for the war effort. They went back to copper in '44, but there really are a few 1943 copper coins out there. Since these were minted in the millions, apparently a few copper blanks found their way into the mix ( at least that is the official story- wouldn't surprise me if it was done on purpose by a mint employee, as similar things had happened in the past.) Anyway, the '43 copper coins are worth a fortune. There were also a few 1944 coins that got minted on steel blanks, these are also worth big money. This story is not a secret and the writers could have fact checked it in just a couple of minutes, that's why it bugs me. I buy and sell coins as a hobby and have done so since I was a kid, when you are young you dream about hitting it big by finding one of these rare items. Of course, you never do but it's fun to dream when you are young !

 

As for the episode, I agree there was a lot of dumbness by Lizzie-- stuffing that towels in the sink drain was just ridiculous ! Sure, she was in a rush but come on, she's been doing this long enough not to make a dumb blunder like that. If they can't create suspense in a better way than by making a character stupid, they need some new writers.

[seacliffsal]

I know that Lizzie is making lots of mistakes, but I am really enjoying this show so much more than previously because at least she is doing something AND she has dropped the judgmental tone and attitude she always demonstrated towards Red and is just embracing it.  The show is now fun for me (and I try to ignore the biggest of the nonsensical plot points).  I find myself looking forward to it.  

[dwmarch]

On 19/01/2018 at 1:17 PM, yourmomiseasy said:

Revenge Lizzie is the best Lizzie ...at least she's doing something that's not throwing tantrums at Red, screwing things up, or waiting to be saved.

I think you've found what my essential problem has always been with Lizzie's character. She's always been so reactionary, either waiting for the next breadcrumb left by Red or chasing her tail as the bad guys run circles around a task force of "elite" FBI agents. Revenge-focused Lizzie is actually doing stuff, going out and driving the plot instead of being driven by it. And it's about time.

[yourmomiseasy]

That's a much better way of saying what I was trying to say.

[JakersWild]

On 1/19/2018 at 3:17 PM, yourmomiseasy said:

Revenge Lizzie is the best Lizzie -- even better than Zombie Lizzie.  I mean sure she just dumped her kid off and doesn't care if it ends up with 2 dead parents, but I'll overlook that.  She's also still dumb -- leaving a bloody rag in the garbage disposal, just stealing the rag instead of replacing it with one with animal blood or something, and being practically naked while dealing with flesh eating chemicals.  But at least she's doing something that's not throwing tantrums at Red, screwing things up, or waiting to be saved.  Hopefully she'll get better at crime as she goes along, although she should already be pretty good given her previous vocation and who she associates with.

Agreed. It has also meant, aside from the cabin episode, that we see far less of her character -- time-wise anyway. Bonus! The show works better when it focuses overall on Red and the whole FBI team, not mostly on Red and Lizzie. The primary plot with the heist was ridiculous but fun. It reminds me of what I've said about The Mentalist and The Closer back in the day: "It turns out I enjoy a light-hearted show with good characters that is about murders and other awful crimes, but also makes me laugh."