Figure Skating

[mehtotheworld]

4 minutes ago, HartofDixie said:

8 minute mark.

Thanks. Honestly, it’s not the most gracious, but also not that awful. They’re disappointed and don’t hide their emotions. I honestly don’t think it’s that big a deal, especially since they have posted a lot with other US skaters and seem to get along fine. 

[mehtotheworld]

Just now, herbz said:

Marina Zoueva's son going out with Tessa during the 2006-10 quad and then Meryl from 2010 onwards (they're engaged now) probably didn't help with that :P 

And Tanith before them, right? What a hilarious web. 

[Vera]

1 minute ago, herbz said:

Marina Zoueva's son going out with Tessa during the 2006-10 quad and then Meryl from 2010 onwards (they're engaged now) probably didn't help with that :P 

And he was with Tanith before that.

[absnow54]

I did hear of a lot of tension between Tessa, Meryl Davis and Tanith Belbin back when they were all skating together. But then again it's hard to be friendly when you;re all competing for the same thing and also having to share ice team with one very busy coach.

Didn't they all date their coach's son at some point (I know that Tessa and Meryl did, and he and Meryl are now engaged.)

[herbz]

Just now, Vera said:

And he was with Tanith before that.

Figure skating really is just one big merry go round :D 

[Growsonwalls]

2 minutes ago, herbz said:

Marina Zoueva's son going out with Tessa during the 2006-10 quad and then Meryl from 2010 onwards (they're engaged now) probably didn't help with that :P 

Wait what? I heard of Meryl and Zoueva's son and also Tanith and Zoueva's son (before Tanith got together with Charlie White) but I didn't hear of Tessa and Zoueva's son. But if that is true then I guess it's understandable that there was so much tension between D/W and V/M. 

Also ... Zoueva's son is quite the player. Heh.

[HartofDixie]

2 minutes ago, mehtotheworld said:

And Tanith before them, right? What a hilarious web. 

And then Tanith and Charlie got together and are now married.  But I don't think that tension/drama was anything close to Maia/Alex/Pasha.

[herbz]

5 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Wait what? I heard of Meryl and Zoueva's son and also Tanith and Zoueva's son (before Tanith got together with Charlie White) but I didn't hear of Tessa and Zoueva's son. But if that is true then I guess it's understandable that there was so much tension between D/W and V/M. 

Also ... Zoueva's son is quite the player. Heh.

Oh yeah- Tessa would've been pretty young too, like 17/18 when it started? And he was a bit older. Lucky the Canadian press never got wind of the whole saga around Sochi time, because there was a hell of a lot of gossip coming out of Michigan about Marina favouring one team and the mess of that whole coaching set up post Igor's departure, and if they'd thrown Fedor's relationships into the equation it would have made quite the soap opera.

Edited February 19, 2018 by herbz

[mehtotheworld]

Fedor continued as a coach of some sort, right? He appeared in their reality show for like one scene if I recall correctly. 

[GeminiDancer]

Does anyone know what caused the split between Marina and Igor?

[herbz]

2 minutes ago, mehtotheworld said:

Fedor continued as a coach of some sort, right? He appeared in their reality show for like one scene if I recall correctly. 

A 'footwork coach', apparently. Just awkward all round.

[mehtotheworld]

And then wasn’t there some sort of talk of Marina favoring Fedor and his partner when they made an ill-fated run as a Russian ice dance team? Or at least pushing them super hard, even though he hadn’t skated competitively in years? God, I love dumb ice dancing drama. Marina needs her own reality show. 

[Growsonwalls]

1 minute ago, GeminiDancer said:

Does anyone know what caused the split between Marina and Igor?

Heard it was due to money issues. Also, Marina apparently got very possessive of her favorite teams. Marina's possessiveness was oddly first documented in Katia Gordeeva's book. She said that Marina was kind of possessive about Sergei Grinkov and wanted to hog his attention and time.

[HartofDixie]

28 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Wait what? I heard of Meryl and Zoueva's son and also Tanith and Zoueva's son (before Tanith got together with Charlie White) but I didn't hear of Tessa and Zoueva's son. But if that is true then I guess it's understandable that there was so much tension between D/W and V/M. 

Also ... Zoueva's son is quite the player. Heh.

Didn't Tanith date Evan Lysacek?  According to the crazy blog he had his eye on Maia too!

http://dubemoir.blogspot.com/2017/07/best-wishes.html

Edited February 19, 2018 by HartofDixie

[Moxie Cat]

54 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

If you look at women singles skaters, you'll notice that most of them are tiny

This is why fuller-figured (relatively speaking) skaters like Kostner and Witt stand out to me - they've learned how to jump even with hips.

[AshleyN]

Question: are all figure skating disciplines this much of a soap opera behind the scenes? Or is Ice Dance just special that way? Because this shit is kind of amazing.

[leopardprint]

12 minutes ago, AshleyN said:

Question: are all figure skating disciplines this much of a soap opera behind the scenes? Or is Ice Dance just special that way? Because this shit is kind of amazing.

It seems that way. Ladies had one of the biggest sports scandals in history, Pairs required revamping of the entire scoring system, can’t recall any Men’s scandals off the top of my head? Does forcing many of them to stay in the closet count? 

Edited February 19, 2018 by leopardprint

[galaxygirl76]

So is there any place where all this drama can be caught up on because I'm intrigued by it all. 

Edited February 19, 2018 by galaxygirl76

[Chaser]

23 minutes ago, HartofDixie said:

Didn't Tanith date Evan Lysacek?  According to the crazy blog he had his eye on Maia too!

http://dubemoir.blogspot.com/2017/07/best-wishes.html

Dang. That blog hates Meryl.

[MaKaM]

5 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

It seems that way. Ladies had one of the biggest sports scandals in history, Pairs required revamping of the entire scoring system, can’t recall any Men’s scandals off the top of my head? Does forcing many of them to stay in the closet count? 

The hidden eating disorders might blow into something with Adam Rippon somewhat dragging it to light (eating disorders among the women, pairs, and dancers is an assumed given).

Well, since the Shibs are getting the hose, I hope they've banked a lot of good sponsorship money leading up to this. Were they planning on retiring? They are pretty young for historical ice dancer pairs (not so much with the current trend)

[peachmangosteen]

They need to do a trashy primetime soap about ice dancing already!

This is slightly off topic of the current discussion,  but I just noticed that the women's short program is on Tuesday and then the long is on Thursday and I was wondering if there was any particular reason why there's a day in between.

[MaKaM]

Just now, peachmangosteen said:

They need to do a trashy primetime soap about ice dancing already!

This is slightly off topic of the current discussion,  but I just noticed that the women's short program is on Tuesday and then the long is on Thursday and I was wondering if there was any particular reason why there's a day in between.

Not 100% sure but likely because of the short track schedule.

Has anyone posted video showing where the Shibs lost 2 levels on that step sequence that no one else (important) did?

[GeminiDancer]

8 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

It seems that way. Ladies had one of the biggest sports scandals in history, Pairs required revamping of the entire scoring system, can’t recall any Men’s scandals off the top of my head? Does forcing many of them to stay in the closet count? 

I think right now with the Men it's the athletics v. artistry and the reliance on quads. Lysacek beating Plushenko was a huge deal, but it also meant that that was going to be the last time clean triples would beat messy quads. There's also the homophobia surrounding Men's figure skating (Johnny Weir gender identity being called into question because of how he carried himself).

[herbz]

34 minutes ago, AshleyN said:

Question: are all figure skating disciplines this much of a soap opera behind the scenes? Or is Ice Dance just special that way? Because this shit is kind of amazing.

I know quite a lot of ballroom dancers and they're always in similar relationship messes. I think the coupleness of it all does add to all the drama. Spending hours every day draping yourself over someone gets interesting when you have no social life outside of training :D 

The Hubbell/Donohue/Diaz/Smart dynamic is so shamefully fascinating to me. I like gossip too much for my own good.

Edited February 19, 2018 by herbz

[GeminiDancer]

2 minutes ago, herbz said:

The Hubbell/Donohue/Diaz/Smart dynamic is so shamefully fascinating to me. I like gossip too much for my own good.

I'm ready for the tea! Got my croissant here!

[herbz]

Not like anyone needed confirmation of shenanigans, but: https://mobile.twitter.com/skatinglesson/status/965639772755636225?s=12

Golden Spin was the event that saw a judge suspended for a pitiful 6 months. The Russian judge on the Olympic panel was the other person involved. The French judge had a long history of questionable scoring going back years.

[herbz]

8 minutes ago, GeminiDancer said:

I'm ready for the tea! Got my croissant here!

Hubbell and Donohue were in a 2 year relationship, then broke up because they were skating terribly. Moved to Montreal to train, where they promptly hooked up with Adria Diaz and Olivia Smart respectively, who are two halfs of a Spanish dance partnership. Donohue is exhausting on Instagram pronouncing his love every five minutes, and it seems the four often hang out? Except Madi and Zach's ice vibe is pretty much reliant on sexual chemistry, and they spend every interview dissecting said chemistry and how it's stronger than when they were together, one time in front of their other halfs. Dancers have different boundaries to the rest of us! 

Edited February 19, 2018 by herbz

[Growsonwalls]

I also think that in the skating world (which is already a rather small, gossipy community) ice dancers are an even smaller, more insular community. There are only a few top coaches that specialize in ice dance. And the 'wait your turn' mentality means that the same characters are in ice dance for years and years. So as a result everyone knows everyone else's business and there's a lot of hookups and drama. It's not really like men's, ladies' and pairs where each new quad there is heavy turnover and fresh faces.

[absnow54]

Not like anyone needed confirmation of shenanigans, but: https://mobile.twitter.com/skatinglesson/status/965639772755636225?s=12

I thought the results showed that France and US voted P/C over V/M. Russia, Ukraine, and Isreal all scored the pairs within a few tenths with V/M on top.

[AshleyN]

So I know people here seem to think that Hubbell/Donohue have bronze in the bag now, but looking closer at the scores it looks like the Shibs actually had higher component scores and received higher GOEs from the judges. From what I can tell it was only the Level 2 on their rhumba that put them behind H/D, and that comes from the technical caller rather than the judges, doesn't it? So if they hit their levels in the Free Dance shouldn't they at least have a shot?

[herbz]

4 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

I thought the results showed that France and US voted P/C over V/M. Russia, Ukraine, and Isreal all scored the pairs within a few tenths with V/M on top.

I think this is referring to PCS. Only 3 judges put V/M ahead in PCS, and one was Canada. Essentially, if P/C had got the full set of Level 4s but skated everything else exactly the same way, this set of judges would have put them in first. 

Edit: I take that back. Only 2 judges- Canada and Japan-  had V/M ahead on components, and Israel had them tied. The rest must've taken some magic mushrooms. 

Edited February 19, 2018 by herbz

[Dots And Stripes]

2 minutes ago, AshleyN said:

So I know people here seem to think that Hubbell/Donohue have bronze in the bag now, but looking closer at the scores it looks like the Shibs actually had higher component scores and received higher GOEs from the judges. From what I can tell it was only the Level 2 on their rhumba that put them behind H/D, and that comes from the technical caller rather than the judges, doesn't it? So if they hit their levels in the Free Dance shouldn't they at least have a shot?

I think the concern comes from H/D out scoring the Shibs on the free dance all season. The Shibs beat H/D in the Grand Prix Final because they had a heathy enough lead in the short that made up for losing the free dance.

[blackwing]

27 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

This is slightly off topic of the current discussion,  but I just noticed that the women's short program is on Tuesday and then the long is on Thursday and I was wondering if there was any particular reason why there's a day in between.

After the travesty that was Sotnikova in Sochi... the answer is obviously that the Not Russians need the day in between so they can "consult" with others and make sure everyone ends up happy.  

There's probably a big flowchart somewhere that will be distributed on Wednesday that considers skate order... "If Zavigota splats like Lipnitskaya, then be more critical of Nagasu.  If Nagasu does the triple axel, then nail her on choice of music or that extra bit of frilly lace.   If others score her too high, then we must ensure that Medvedeva gets 300 points.  At all costs, score the two Canadians very low.  Blow an air horn when Nagasu leaps into the air on the triple axel.   In Not Russia, the gold medal judges you!"

[roughing it]

General question here - I've not followed much ice skating since Michelle Kwan days and prior.  When did they allow music with singing?  It was always instrumentals, then when the skaters did their "after competition" shows they were allowed to use vocals.

[MaKaM]

1 minute ago, Dots And Stripes said:

I think the concern comes from H/D out scoring the Shibs on the free dance all season. The Shibs beat H/D in the Grand Prix Final because they had a heathy enough lead in the short that made up for losing the free dance.

That said, they (the Shibs) managed a 112 during the Team competition with is about what Hubbell and Donohue got at the Grand Prix Final.

Edited February 19, 2018 by MaKaM

[HartofDixie]

33 minutes ago, MaKaM said:

The hidden eating disorders might blow into something with Adam Rippon somewhat dragging it to light (eating disorders among the women, pairs, and dancers is an assumed given).

Well, since the Shibs are getting the hose, I hope they've banked a lot of good sponsorship money leading up to this. Were they planning on retiring? They are pretty young for historical ice dancer pairs (not so much with the current trend)

Still too soon to tell if any of our dance teams are retiring after this season but I'm willing to be the Shibs and H/D are continuing.

And many of the female skaters are in dire need of a burger.  I remember reading on a board about the dieting in Canton with the ice dancers - Meryl got smaller between Vancouver and Sochi and Yulia Lipnitskaya and Gracie Gold.

[Souris]

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I feel so badly for the Shibs because it seems like no matter what they do, the judges are never going to put them in that category of "favored darlings" who are given the opportunity to medal. I don't think they're in the same league as V/M, but their performance was much cleaner than H/D and P/C. They should be in second right now.

This this this. So much this.

I am so ticked about the obvious lowballing of the Shibs in favor of H/D.

4 minutes ago, AshleyN said:

So I know people here seem to think that Hubbell/Donohue have bronze in the bag now, but looking closer at the scores it looks like the Shibs actually had higher component scores and received higher GOEs from the judges. From what I can tell it was only the Level 2 on their rhumba that put them behind H/D, and that comes from the technical caller rather than the judges, doesn't it? So if they hit their levels in the Free Dance shouldn't they at least have a shot?

The Free Dance has been the ShibSibs' weaker program all season. If they're not getting the levels they should've gotten for their Short, they're not going to get them for their Free.

[AshleyN]

10 minutes ago, Dots And Stripes said:

I think the concern comes from H/D out scoring the Shibs on the free dance all season. The Shibs beat H/D in the Grand Prix Final because they had a heathy enough lead in the short that made up for losing the free dance.

 

8 minutes ago, Souris said:

The Free Dance has been the ShibSibs' weaker program all season. If they're not getting the levels they should've gotten for their Short, they're not going to get them for their Free.

Thanks for the clarification.

That being said I...liked H/D last night? Maybe not more than the Shibs, but I liked them nonetheless. Maybe it helps that I haven't payed close attention to figure skating the last couple of years so I'm not coming in with any particular preference there. Tbh, I also didn't really see anything wrong with that video someone posted of them reacting to the scores earlier -- they looked disappointed in it, but I don't really consider that a crime.

Edited February 19, 2018 by AshleyN

[HartofDixie]

15 minutes ago, herbz said:

Not like anyone needed confirmation of shenanigans, but: https://mobile.twitter.com/skatinglesson/status/965639772755636225?s=12

Golden Spin was the event that saw a judge suspended for a pitiful 6 months. The Russian judge on the Olympic panel was the other person involved. The French judge had a long history of questionable scoring going back years.

And this event was the one (along with Nationals results) that determined the Spanish Olympic entries.  Smart/Diaz won Nationals but combined with the results at Golden Spin were #2.  This breakout also includes their coaches.  https://mobile.twitter.com/SkatingProtocol/status/946148562756280320

[absnow54]

I think this is referring to PCS. Only 3 judges put V/M ahead in PCS, and one was Canada. Essentially, if P/C had got the full set of Level 4s but skated everything else exactly the same way, this set of judges would have put them in first. Edit: I take that back. Only 2 judges- Canada and Japan- had V/M ahead on components, and Israel had them tied. The rest must've taken some magic mushrooms.

But is it really a France/Russia conspiracy when 7 out of 9 judges vote that way? (Well 5 out of 9, since Ukraine and Isreal had them tied.)

[HartofDixie]

15 minutes ago, roughing it said:

General question here - I've not followed much ice skating since Michelle Kwan days and prior.  When did they allow music with singing?  It was always instrumentals, then when the skaters did their "after competition" shows they were allowed to use vocals.

I believe for ice dance it began 1997-1998 season.  For everyone else 2014-2015 season.

[Dots And Stripes]

10 minutes ago, HartofDixie said:

And many of the female skaters are in dire need of a burger.  I remember reading on a board about the dieting in Canton with the ice dancers - Meryl got smaller between Vancouver and Sochi and Yulia Lipnitskaya and Gracie Gold.

Yulia and Gracie were two of the most hyped figure skaters going into Sochi. If their absence from these Olympics didn't wake up the figure skating world (and I don't think it did), Adam's quotes sadly won't either. The problem runs deep. I was really disappointed that Tara and Johnny were both aware that the desire to be thin was a problem in the sport, yet when they heard Gracie make some troubling statements about her weight, they both dismissed it as her needing to get over her loss from Worlds. Clearly her problems were deeper than disappointment over a competition and a lot of people dismissed the signs. There is a lot of work to be done.

2 minutes ago, AshleyN said:

 

Thanks for the clarification.

That being said I...liked H/D last night? Maybe not more than the Shibs, but I liked them nonetheless. Maybe it helps that I haven't payed close attention to figure skating the last couple of years so I'm not coming in with any particular preference there. Tbh, I also didn't really see anything wrong with that video someone posted of them reacting to the scores earlier -- they looked disappointed in it, but I don't really consider that a crime.

Yeah I don't fault skaters for having human reactions. It must be hard to keep your composure when emotions are running high. As long as they don't throw a fit or try to make others feel bad, I personally don't have a problem with showing disappointment. 

[herbz]

4 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

But is it really a France/Russia conspiracy when 7 out of 9 judges vote that way? (Well 5 out of 9, since Ukraine and Isreal had them tied.)

Not so much a France-Russia conspiracy as 'this panel has already decided who they want as winner before anyone's stepped on the ice' conspiracy.

[HartofDixie]

2 minutes ago, Dots And Stripes said:

Yulia and Gracie were two of the most hyped figure skaters going into Sochi. If their absence from these Olympics didn't wake up the figure skating world (and I don't think it did), Adam's quotes sadly won't either. The problem runs deep. I was really disappointed that Tara and Johnny were both aware that the desire to be thin was a problem in the sport, yet when they heard Gracie make some troubling statements about her weight, they both dismissed it as her needing to get over her loss from Worlds. Clearly her problems were deeper than disappointment over a competition and a lot of people dismissed the signs. There is a lot of work to be done.

Yeah I don't fault skaters for having human reactions. It must be hard to keep your composure when emotions are running high. As long as they don't throw a fit or try to make others feel bad, I personally don't have a problem with showing disappointment. 

When Johnny was competing didn't he only eat one meal a day or didn't eat before 5pm?

[leopardprint]

6 minutes ago, Dots And Stripes said:

I was really disappointed that Tara and Johnny were both aware that the desire to be thin was a problem in the sport, yet when they heard Gracie make some troubling statements about her weight, they both dismissed it as her needing to get over her loss from Worlds.

From what I’ve heard on their podcasts and articles, Johnny doesn’t seem to have the healthiest approach to eating and it seems like Tara just has lucky metabolism also I think she’s under 5’ so her size has always been an advantage to her for jumping. I do think they also essentially grew up in a hyper competitive atmosphere so I imagine it hard to change your do anything to win mentality. 

Edited February 19, 2018 by leopardprint

[MaKaM]

8 minutes ago, Dots And Stripes said:

Yeah I don't fault skaters for having human reactions. It must be hard to keep your composure when emotions are running high. As long as they don't throw a fit or try to make others feel bad, I personally don't have a problem with showing disappointment. 

Yeah. If the dislike is based on that non-expression Madison made, that is pretty shocking. I was expecting her to have made some sort of stank-face (kinda like Ashley did when she saw her marks) but (not being a Hubbell/Donohue fan), as long as they refrain from verbally trashing their opponents, hiring Jeff Gillooly to take out some knees, or making throw-up faces when other skaters are scored, I am not going to hold non-expressions (and non-appearances at optional events) against them. And their less-than-perfectly-patriotic comments about their trainingmates being teammates hasn't seemed to affect USFSA's support of them if the judging is any measure, so it must not matter to the higher ups.

/still TeamShibs. Wish gif's had sound because the clip of their twizzles would be my new background (to the dismay of everyone around me)

Edited February 19, 2018 by MaKaM

[herbz]

Maybe it's just that US judge Sharon Rogers was denied Canadian citizenship or something, because as well as blatantly underscoring V/M relative to P/C, she also gave Weaver/Poje -2 GOE on their twizzles while every other judge gave them positive. This is not her first time at the rodeo. 

[Crs97]

It sometimes seems like the judges confuse “ artistic” with “sexual chemistry” so the siblings start behind the 8 ball.  I am tired of ice dancing couples trying to convince me they are secretly in love.  Tortilla and Dean didn’t have to resort to the trope to be amazing.

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, Chaser said:

Dang. That blog hates Meryl.

Well, of course she does.  Because it was the evil machinations of Meryl and Charlie White that put all of figure skating's judges into a trance and caused them to award Davis and White the OGM when everyone in the entire world knew that Tessa and Scott were vastly superior in every way.

Meryl is the Cruella De Ville of figure skating, doncha know?

And that's not even the craziest stuff on that blog.  It is, after all, the Tessa Loves Scott and They are Secretly Married and Have Multiple Babies blog.  You see, they're forced to keep their relationship a secret because the judges, already so unfair to them, would undoubtedly treat them even worse if they knew how blissfully happy they are in their personal lives together.

Not that I don't agree that there is some very shady scoring coming from the judges in ice dance; but I don't think it's a personal thing against Virtue and Moir.  It's more about collusion between the Russian and French judges to prop up their favorites and give the edge to their own countries in awarding medals.

Edited February 19, 2018 by doodlebug

[herbz]

6 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

It sometimes seems like the judges confuse “ artistic” with “sexual chemistry” so the siblings start behind the 8 ball.  I am tired of ice dancing couples trying to convince me they are secretly in love.  Tortilla and Dean didn’t have to resort to the trope to be amazing.

I'm going to presume you haven't spent too much time in Britain- trying to figure out whether Torvill and Dean were ever together was a national sport for decades!

I do however agree with this: https://mobile.twitter.com/rockerskating/status/965555837300166657?s=12

Edited February 19, 2018 by herbz