Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Trini]

I actually don't mind seeing Iris's emotions for Barry develop. I wonder what will be that moment that makes her think "huh, maybe I love him in more than just a brotherly way". I think Linda will help spark that but I hope that it's not it. I also hope she develops feelings for Barry BEFORE she finds out he's the Flash. Otherwise it'll just make me wonder if she's actually in love with Barry for Barry and not because he's the flash. I'm all for seeing this growth on Iris's part. I just hope they make her a lot less boring, because she kind of is boring to me. 

 

 

Sadly, I think they're going for the triangle built for 2...Barry loves Iris, Iris crushes on The Flash. We'll even get scenes of Iris confessing her feelings about the Flash to Barry asking what she should do because she doesn't want to hurt Eddie.

Iris will find out that Barry=Flash which will allow/cause her to view Barry in a romantic light...

 

Whoa. Déjá vu.

You both are describing the relationships/events in Lois & Clark.

 

 

You do not have to layer in immediate, deep-seated reasons for a couple to not get together.

I agree that the sibling thing with Barry and Iris is an unnecessary complication; however, I don't think it's a bad thing that they have some history at the start of the show. Clearly, the producers wanted to get the show off to a running start by having everyone know each other already (and not just the romantic relationships).

[wingster55]

The exciting spark of that first meeting, the chemistry that's discovered by the characters at the same time as the viewers

 

I don't think the first meeting is really that important. One of the best tv couples ever imo was one that was married with a teen daughter in FNL. In fact most of the pairings sans Matt/Julie didn't have first meets (and that first meet was hardly pleasant). 

[apinknightmare]

Don't really see THAT a big deal with Barry/Iris. They never really refer to each other as brother sister. Even Iris said "we grew up together like brother and sister, but since we're NOT like brother and sister...." Sure it's kinda weird but that's just CW being CW with the weird, slightly awkward relationships. Joe never adopted Barry so they're not really brother and sister. I think they wanted to avoid making Iris "just the love interest" like Laurel  so they made her a surrogate sibling as well to make her more involved in the plot and with Barry. It's funny I remember seeing an interview with one of the EP's (I think it was AK) and he didn't think there was anything weird about the surrogate sibling thing and thought it was "kinda like a fairytale"  I believe. (LOL) A lot of people still  ship them from what I've seen so it hasn't hurt it the "ship" that much. 

 

I don't ship either way, and I won't be grossed out or anything when they inevitably get together, but it probably would've been better if the writers had left the brother/sister mention all the way out of it. It serves no purpose in the story, and it's just as easy to remind viewers of their closeness by having Iris say something about them growing up together and that it shouldn't be awkward for him to talk to her about girls, since she's his best friend.

[Morrigan2575]

Whoa. Déjá vu.

You both are describing the relationships/events in Lois & Clark.

Seems to be a standard trope in Superhero/Secret identity type stories.

They're setting Iris up to be interested in The Flash, she started a blog reporting on him. They also have Iris/Barry conveniently being at the scene of meta crimes so they can play up the secret identity gag. Next would have Blogger/Journalist Iris investigating odd crimes, searching out the Flash who inevitably saves her thus furthering her feels/obsession with the Flash...yada yada yada

It's all very Superman/Lois Lane but I think the comics followed a similar route with Barry or Wally.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[ban1o]

I don't ship either way, and I won't be grossed out or anything when they inevitably get together, but it probably would've been better if the writers had left the brother/sister mention all the way out of it. It serves no purpose in the story, and it's just as easy to remind viewers of their closeness by having Iris say something about them growing up together and that it shouldn't be awkward for him to talk to her about girls, since she's his best friend.

yeah I don't ship couples in general and I get it's a bit awkward but I don't think it's super gross or weird or anything. It's a lot less problematic than the back-story they had for Oliver and Laurel imo. 

[wonderwall]

yeah I don't ship couples in general and I get it's a bit awkward but I don't think it's super gross or weird or anything. It's a lot less problematic than the back-story they had for Oliver and Laurel imo. 

This is why I actually wouldn't mind if they got together, I don't see anything wrong with them getting together as long as it's well written and not contrived. I don't really have a preference for Flash as I do with Arrow. All I want on that show is Papa Joe to get some lovin'. 

[Danny Franks]

I don't think the first meeting is really that important. One of the best tv couples ever imo was one that was married with a teen daughter in FNL. In fact most of the pairings sans Matt/Julie didn't have first meets (and that first meet was hardly pleasant). 

 

That's a completely different proposition, if you ask me. Friday Night Lights was not about Coach and Tami Taylor's romance. Their marriage was one ongoing subplot in a show that was about lots of different relationships. None of the relationships were central to the show, the way that Barry/Iris or Oliver/Laurel were presented as being.

 

And the whole point of a meet cute is that it can be awkward and uncomfortable, with one character in a position of strength and the other at a disadvantage. Just like Julie Taylor and Matt Saracen. Their first scene together was the very definition of a meet cute, in my view. Matt says hello, stutters that he's a football player, gets told to clear off. The next time they meet, it's a variation on the theme, and the time after that.

 

And if you look at the other relationships that were introduced, you had Street/Lyla, which was immediately boring and insipid, and you had Tim/Tyra which was self-destructive and toxic. Those relationships didn't last, because they weren't that important to who the characters were going to become. Tim/Lyla was the only one where a pre-existing relationship, with years of baggage, became romantic. I thought the show did a decent job of showing why it did, and of later grounding it more firmly.

 

I think the first meeting of a couple I'm being asked to look at as one worth rooting for, as a central aspect of a show, is incredibly important. It might not even be two characters who were intended to be romantically linked, but if a first scene plays just right, it opens up all those possibilities. Just like Oliver/Felicity did.

[KenyaJ]

Seems to be a standard trope in Superhero/Secret identity type stories.

 

This is my biggest problem with the Iris so far, the fact that she is the only person in Barry's inner circle who doesn't know his true identity. And why not? I can't think of any good reason why she can't know, other than the writers thinking it's funny and adorable that she's so interested in The Flash and it turns out he's her best friend. But the "in the dark" love interest is so trite and played out. And after seeing the way it prevented Laurel from being fully integrated into Oliver's life, I can't imagine why they chose to repeat it on The Flash. Personally, I think it would have been a better story if Iris knew Barry's identity and had to help keep Eddie from catching on. 

Edited November 2, 2014 by KenyaJ

[wingster55]

That's a completely different proposition, if you ask me. Friday Night Lights was not about Coach and Tami Taylor's romance.

 

I don't agree. It was the constant. The show certainly wasn't about football (see the ep where they burned through 4 games)

 

Also Jason and Lyla weren't really boring. Not really built to last sure but the evolution of the two characters was fascinating. 

[apinknightmare]

yeah I don't ship couples in general and I get it's a bit awkward but I don't think it's super gross or weird or anything. It's a lot less problematic than the back-story they had for Oliver and Laurel imo. 

 

Yeah, it's not super gross or weird, just...maybe don't remind people that there's a reason why they would think of each other as brother or sister. In fact, don't have one love interest mention the words brother or sister in relation to the other pretty much ever.

[Trini]

 

This is my biggest problem with the Iris so far, the fact that she is the only person in Barry's inner circle who doesn't know his true identity. And why not?

I mentioned the same thing in the Flash forum. I really hope the writers take the less travelled path and have Iris find out sooner rather than later.

[wingster55]

^ Spoilered to be safe 

The next ep says Iris meets the Flash..I think she may recognize him then..also Iris has scenes with Cisco and Caitlin in the Christmas ep at the earliest..not sure why unless she was in the know

[Danny Franks]

I don't agree. It was the constant. The show certainly wasn't about football (see the ep where they burned through 4 games)

 

Also Jason and Lyla weren't really boring. Not really built to last sure but the evolution of the two characters was fascinating. 

 

The show was about a small town in Texas, the people who lived in it and the high school football team that united (and sometimes divided) them. Tami and Coach were just two of those people. So their relationship was a constant? Buddy Garrity being fat and sweaty was a constant, but the show was never about his undershirt.

 

Jason and Lyla as characters were interesting, as a couple they were presented as perfectly boring.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Danny Franks

[Chaser]

I'm really hoping they go the Green Lantern movie route (yep, I said that) and have Iris recognize Barry instantly and then call him a moron for thinking she wouldn't be able to tell.

[wonderwall]

I'm really hoping they go the Green Lantern movie route (yep, I said that) and have Iris recognize Barry instantly and then call him a moron for thinking she wouldn't be able to tell.

This would be SO SPECTACULAR!!! It would make Iris all the more interesting imo. Also it would give their relationship a sort of edge. What I hated about Laurel was that she claimed she knew Oliver to his bones but couldn't even tell he was the Arrow which made her look like an idiot, so I hope when Iris looks at the Flash she will recognize him because I thoroughly believe she knows Barry to his core (they just haven't shown it yet). 

[wingster55]

I do think that'll happen. Unless Barry hides while talking to her as the Flash. We already saw Henry recognize Barry. 

The show was about a small town in Texas, the people who lived in it and the high school football team that united (and sometimes divided) them. Tami and Coach were just two of those people.

 

It was about the people that interacted with Tami and Eric. They weren't just "two of those people". They were the leads of the show. 

You mentioned Bones...it's about their relationship and them interacting with the other people on their team. 

 

What I hated about Laurel was that she claimed she knew Oliver to his bones but couldn't even tell he was the Arrow which made her look like an idiot,

 

Are you saying it's the fact that she didn't recognize him or the fact that she said the bones thing AND didn't recognize him?

Edited November 2, 2014 by wingster55

[Chaser]

In my opinion, they just need to bring Iris in on the secret because there is no reason why she shouldn't know. It hurt Laurel by keeping her out of loop, even though I think there were better reasons behind not having Laurel know. Reasons that should have been worked out by the end of S1, but weren't. I think they have avoided a lot of the problems with Iris (making her warmer and giving her and Barry a much better foundation to work from), they need to get her in sooner rather then later.

Edited November 2, 2014 by 10Eleven12

[dtissagirl]

So why not make Iris a cute journalist who Barry runs into on a case? Why not make her an internet blogger who gets interested in this superhero guy? Why not make her a new cop in town who gets annoyed with Barry being late, but appears to develop softer feelings for him underneath that? They could have made her absolutely anything they wanted. They chose to make her his pseudo-sister. Weirdos.

And with Arrow, why not make Laurel Lance the lawyer who Oliver starts to cross paths with during his vigilante escapades? A feisty, tough, passionate young woman who wants justice for the people of the city just as much as he does? A woman he's never met before, but finds himself drawn to. If they had given Oliver and Laurel a scene where they meet for the first time, and Laurel is disapproving without being poisonous, and Oliver is louche and charming, perhaps the show would be very, very different now.

Danny Franks, yes, all those scenarios would have hooked me from the get go. Starting with one side is already in love is a failure from the get go for me, because why should I care? It's telling instead of showing. I wonder if these EPs think they're being ~unique by shortcutting romance plots this way, but as far as my tastes go, this kind of thing puts me OFF 'shipping the pairing, on principle alone.

The first meet on screen doesn't even have to be the first time ever the characters have met -- they can have a past, they can even be friends already. The first meet does have to show me that there is a possibility of future coupledom, if the intention for those two characters is romance. I seldom 'ship non-canon couples, Felicity/Oliver is a total aberration for me, but their meetcute and S1 storyline immediately told me THIS IS A ROMANTIC PLOT, PLEASE PAY ATTENTION. So I bought it.

Edited November 2, 2014 by dancingnancy

[wonderwall]

Are you saying it's the fact that she didn't recognize him or the fact that she said the bones thing AND didn't recognize him?

It's the fact that she didn't recognize him AND she said that she knows him like she knows her own name :p Lmao And the fact that she said she knows him in her bones AFTER she figured out that Oliver isn't who she thought he was (the Arrow) just made it worse and made her look just... like an idiot imo

Edited November 2, 2014 by wonderwall

[Shanna]

I'm really hoping they go the Green Lantern movie route (yep, I said that) and have Iris recognize Barry instantly and then call him a moron for thinking she wouldn't be able to tell.

Since I spent half of arrow shaking my head in disbelief that none of these idiots recognize Oliver when he was right in front of them, that would be amazing!

I don't need a meet cute but I don't like seeing one character pine for someone who is oblivious. I would be ok with watching a friendship change over time, I just am not seeing it happening on iris'is side right now because she sees him as family. And that's a big hurdle. I would rather see everybody have normal relationships with other people for a while. Maybe they can try romance down the line.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Shanna

[wingster55]

It's the fact that she didn't recognize him AND she said that she knows him like she knows her own name :p Lmao And the fact that she said she knows him in her bones AFTER she figured out that Oliver isn't who she thought he was (the Arrow) just made it worse and made her look just... like an idiot imo

 

Gotcha (if it was the former I would've argued no one else did either)

[dtissagirl]

I don't think the first meeting is really that important. One of the best tv couples ever imo was one that was married with a teen daughter in FNL. In fact most of the pairings sans Matt/Julie didn't have first meets (and that first meet was hardly pleasant).

Hmmm. I guess I have a different take on 'shipping. For me, it means rooting for a pairing that is not together to get together. If the story starts with the couple already in a relationship, I might enjoy their relationship [or not], but I don't consider it 'shipping. Edited November 2, 2014 by dancingnancy

[Genki]

Barry has a very distinctive mouth and jawline, like Sara, people who know him should recognise him, but comic book rules I guess.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Genki

[Shanna]

I do think the first scene between two characters is important for establishing who these people are and who they will be to each other. So whether they have heat, or friendliness or snark or anger like Oliver and laurel, that kind of sets up what you are going to see in the future. Barry iris screamed brotherzoned. That works for the show fine, but doesn't exactly scream "canon couple".

I love seeing how characters I nteract in the beginning. Oliver and Diggle you knew were going to work, ditto felicity.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Shanna

[wingster55]

Hmmm. I guess I have a different take on 'shipping. For me, it means rooting for a pairing that is not together to get together. If the story starts with the couple already in a relationship, I might enjoy their relationship [or not], but I don't consider it 'shipping.

 

I always viewed it as liking a couple. Just me though. 

[quarks]

See, I can understand why Oliver didn't tell Laurel the truth: first, she was furious at him, and they had to repair their friendship first.  Second, he'd actually killed people.  That's a pretty big secret to trust anyone with, and at least in the first season, Oliver only revealed his secret in life and death situations. Also, Laurel is an attorney/cop's daughter; there was every reason to believe that first season Laurel would decide to turn Oliver into the authorities.  In the second season Laurel wasn't exactly the most stable sort. It only really became an issue when at least ten characters on the show knew and Laurel didn't.

 

But with Barry and Iris - Iris isn't furious with Barry. She likes and supports him. I'm guessing that once she finds out, she will be furious because she wasn't told, but at this point, she's not angry, and at least so far she seems to be emotionally stable.  And Barry hasn't killed anyone. I can understand not wanting to let the whole world know, given the problems that would create, but so far, the only reason to not tell Iris that I can see is that she hasn't been very good at keeping secrets.  

 

All that said, I don't think the writers are repeating the exact same mistakes with Barry and Iris. They've put them on friendly terms, they've eliminated the toxic backstory, Iris is dating a perfectly nice if totally boring guy whose name I can't remember and not Barry's best friend, and they've made sure that Barry's alternative ships have barriers too.  

Edited November 3, 2014 by quarks

[tv echo]

The similarities to Smallville are the things that I don't like about The Flash (although I still enjoy the show overall):
- Referring to the mysterious hero as the red blur or red streak.
- Having the hero's love object be the girl he grew up with and also a reporter type (basically, Lana and Lois combined in one person, Iris).  Plus she friendzones the regular guy but falls for the super alter ego.
- The fact that Barry seems to have not only super speed but super strength like Superman.  He can lift and carry away people heavier than him (example, that train rescue).

- Having a freak of the week who got his/her powers from the same event that's tied to the superhero (kryptonite strike, Star Labs explosion).

 

Arrow may remind me of Batman Begins at times, but it doesn't remind me of Smallville.

Edited November 8, 2014 by tv echo

[Password]

- The fact that Barry seems to have not only super speed but super strength like Superman.  He can lift and carry away people heavier than him (example, that train rescue).

 

Yes what was up with this? Also given that he travels so fast and sometimes knocks people off their feet, wouldn't it injure them? I mean his momentum might explain him carrying people but surely at their hurt.

[Shanna]

- The fact that Barry seems to have not only super speed but super strength like Superman. He can lift and carry away people heavier than him (example, that train rescue).

[/i].

I wondered about this too!!! Granted I'm not very up the flash mythos but I thought it was pretty much 'running fast'. The only thing I could figure is that maybe he generates so much speed that it turns into strength somehow. That might not make any sense but he is not superman so I hope they cut some of that out.

[pootlus]

Whoa. Déjá vu.

You both are describing the relationships/events in Lois & Clark.

Well, yes and no. That was the sequence in the first season - in the second, Lois developed feelings for Clark independent of her feelings for Superman, and deliberately set aside/friendzoned Superman at the end of S2 to commit to a relationship with Clark. Heck, she even seriously risked her life to save Clark's parents - that's a pretty deep commitment. 

Mind you there were anvils throughout S1 that she liked him as more than a friend (most notably, when she gets a perfume whammy and throws herself at him). I'm not getting that from Iris, although early days.

She did utter the inevitable words "I love you...like a brother." in Season 1 though :)

I agree that the sibling thing with Barry and Iris is an unnecessary complication; however, I don't think it's a bad thing that they have some history at the start of the show. Clearly, the producers wanted to get the show off to a running start by having everyone know each other already (and not just the romantic relationships).

The pseudo brother/sister thing just squicks me out, so while Iris is a nice, kinda funny and attractive (if decidedly bland) woman, I really have a bit of an 'eww' moment thinking about her and Barry getting it on. Why the CW has to keep doing this is beyond my understanding, it's really quite horrible.

And I too, love that moment of first meeting. Oliver/Felicity, Lois/Clark, John/Aeryn (okay, they're not superheroes, but...), Buffy/Angel etc.

[Danny Franks]

Yes what was up with this? Also given that he travels so fast and sometimes knocks people off their feet, wouldn't it injure them? I mean his momentum might explain him carrying people but surely at their hurt.

 

I'm pretty sure something travelling at 400 miles an hour, or however fast he's meant to go, would kill someone if it hit them. This is why I've never liked superspeed as a power. Whether it was The Flash, Quicksilver or Superman himself, it just seems so much goofier than most other powers. What can you do with hit? You can move superfast, but the rest of the world can't. How do you interact with anything? How does your mind speed up so much that you can even comprehend what is going on? And yes, why does it make you stronger? How does it not tear your body apart as the muscles and tendons are asked to work at ludicrous speeds. Does it take him like three and a half miles to stop, when he's running at full speed?

 

I remember The Flash having some sort of vibrating power as well, in the comic books. Perhaps he could show Iris that, it might win her over.

 

John/Aeryn (okay, they're not superheroes, but...)

 

 

Aren't they? They're both more super than the majority of characters we've been talking about, if you ask me. Aeryn was just too badass for words, and John... well he had really good eyes. They're better than 20-20, and they're blue!

Edited November 3, 2014 by Danny Franks

[pootlus]

I remember The Flash having some sort of vibrating power as well, in the comic books. Perhaps he could show Iris that, it might win her over.

Ah haha, you just had me wake up half the street by laughing!

[KirkB]

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Bartholomew_Allen_%28New_Earth%29

 

Steal Speed: Speed Force conduits can steal the accelerated motion or momentum from objects or people to reduce their speed or even virtually stop them. Conduits may also steal the speed from other Speedsters or other fast moving people.
        Supercharged Brain Activity: Sometimes neglected by Speedsters who only operate at superhuman speeds and never slow down enough to understand their full potential; Speedsters can access superhuman levels in their brains further than processing information. They can test theories, understand difficult equations and run trial and error in their brains at superhuman speeds. Different conduits access this activity in different ways.
        Superhuman Stamina: Speed Force conduits have to access the Speed Force for a number of different tasks. Most Speedsters use their superhuman speed and react at superhuman speeds; therefore, they must run for extended periods or operate for a large amount of time. Their bodies can handle the stresses of superhuman racing without noticeable distress.
        Superhuman Speed: Speed Force conduits have one main ability above all else. Conduits are connected to the barrier and accumulation of all Speed known in their universe. These characters immediately understand how to run at superhuman speeds and their bodies instinctively understand how to react at high-speed situations. Older speedsters have a reduced but maxed speed of 770mph which is just below sonic booms allowing them to react to situations without causing civilians undo stress. Speedsters in their prime can travel at much faster speeds such as the max level of recorded aided speed on Earth and even reach the speed of light with enough willpower. It is possible for conduits to travel much faster than the speed of light however such levels require an incredible amount of stress. Speedsters unaccustomed to their max level of speeds may detach themselves from the Speed Force or even become part of the Speed Force by accident.
        Vortex Creations: Speed Force conduits that plant themselves on the ground and rotate their extremities can cause an incredible amount of wind to burst through their focused funnel. Most Speedsters use this ability automatically when they run reducing the air currents around their body to low enough levels to no longer inhibit their speed. Creatively, Speedsters can create tornadoes and gusts with their arms.

Abilities

    Super Speed Reading: He is capable of speed-reading at superhuman rates, accumalating mass amounts of knowledge in seconds. However, unlike his grandson, the knowledge does not stay in his memory very long, and disappears after a short time.
    Forensic Pathology
    Chemistry
    Criminology

Strength level

Barry has shown that he is able to carry several people at a time when evacuating a dangerous area, whether feats like this are performed while running on adrenaline is not known. Barry possesses the strength level of a man his age, size, and weight who engages in intensive regular exercise, and can at least press lift his own body weight. However, his powers allow him to throw punches at speeds that, on impact, can have the same effect someone with superhuman strength can have.

[tv echo]

Interesting, KirkB.  I read in some interview (don't recall where) that the Flash EPs were going to

reveal additional superpowers developed by Barry over several seasons, including eventually time travel.

 

Incidentally, here's one person's opinion about the Smallville similarities (I don't necessarily agree)...

How The Flash Is the Perfect Combination of Arrow and Smallville
By Chris King on Oct 22, 2014
http://www.tvovermind.com/the-flash/flash-perfect-combination-arrow-smallville-242924

[SonofaBiscuit]

Aren't they? They're both more super than the majority of characters we've been talking about, if you ask me. Aeryn was just too badass for words, and John... well he had really good eyes. They're better than 20-20, and they're blue!

 

Haha!  Crackers Don't Matter.  One of my favorites.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Just think what a different show Arrow would have been this season if The Flash didn't get picked up and Barry remained on Arrow instead.  We could have watched Barry fighting crime alongside The Arrow, Barry would have made sense as a barrier to the Felicity/Oliver romantic relationship, and we wouldn't have lost some of the writers/EPs who moved over to work on The Flash.  Sigh.  I would have quite preferred that to what we're getting now. 

[chaos is welcome]

Can we discuss spoilery things here relating to the cross?  Cause there is a pic in the gallery for Flash 1.05 that I'm dying to talk about. . .(Spoiler-ish)   http://flashtvnews.com/wp-content/gallery/plastique/FLA105a_0840b.jpg   

Cause Caitlyn is holding a freaking Boomerang and we're supposed to get Digger Harkness for 7/8 of Arrow, 8 is the cross. And there is a flipping satellite in that picture behind her. And what are we dealing with this week? Brother I. Exactly HOW CONNECTED are the next few weeks going to be?

,  If spoiler discussion for the cross/shared universe doesn't belong here just ignore me.  I don't honestly know where this belongs. 

[dtissagirl]

I still think that Oliver should have let the LoA take Malcolm. Or if not, put him in the prison in Lian Yu.  There is no statute of limitations on murder, especially mass murder.  The previous seasons there was an overarching big bad but he still put the villains that popped up along the way in jail. There was no reason for him to let Merlyn go, and absolutely  no reason to put Merlyn under his protection from the LoA. They didn't want him for Sara's murder, they wanted him for the Glade crime.

I thought it was pretty funny when Malcolm said no prison can hold him, the week after the Flash gang came up with the meta-human prison in the particle accelerator. Pretty sure Malcolm wouldn't be able to escape that one. #CrossoverProblems

[wingster55]

How would Malcolm even know about that? 

[Password]

I thought it was pretty funny when Malcolm said no prison can hold him, the week after the Flash gang came up with the meta-human prison in the particle accelerator. Pretty sure Malcolm wouldn't be able to escape that one. #CrossoverProblems

I immediately thought about the meta human prison on The Flash. I'm sure Barry could get him in there...in a flash. Then he'd be stuck with meta humans. Try to magic your way out of there Merlyn!!

[KirkB]

I was actually wondering that myself. We don't know where Slade's little home away from home came from but presumably it wasn't built with public knowledge so how would Malcolm even be aware of it?

[dtissagirl]

I immediately thought about the meta human prison on The Flash. I'm sure Barry could get him in there...in a flash. Then he'd be stuck with meta humans. Try to magic your way out of there Merlyn!!

 

Right? It's silly because this is a joined universe. Barry could have texted."Hey, Oliver, we came up with this crazy prison to hold meta-humans, if you run into one just holla." "Can you hold a mass-murder master assassin we can't prosecute for plot-contrived reasons?" "Sure, see ya in a sec." Problem solved.

[wingster55]

Stephen > Grant (but Stephen has also been playing Oliver longer AND he has more experience)

    Blackthorne=Martin=Cavanaugh

    Ramsey=Cavanaugh (as the mentors of the group I suppose)

    EBR > Panabaker + Ramon + Patton (as love interest)

    KC < Patton

    CH < Panabaker + Ramon

 

Stephen>Grant

Blackthorne=Martin=Cavanaugh=Shipp

Ramsey=Cavanaugh (for now)

EBR> Panabaker

EBR=Ramon

EBR<Patton

KC<Patton

KC=Panabaker

ST=Cavanaugh (trusted figure with a secret of their own)

[chaos is welcome]

Ohh, Suzanne and Cavanaugh. Forgot about that one. Diabolical, driven. Love it. 

 

Blackthorne > Martin for me.  I don't like his characterization as much, but that's how I felt about Lance in S1 too sooo . .  .

[Morrigan2575]

That's a big problem though.  It's not exactly fair to compare a show on episode 50 vs a show on episode 4.  The actors/writers/producers are still trying to find their footing and understanding their characters.  

[wingster55]

Oh...also Colin Donnell>Candice 

[tv echo]

For any Legend of the Seeker fans...

 

BRIDGET REGAN JOINS MARVEL'S AGENT CARTER
Marc Strom @Strommy Published Nov 6, 2014 Updated Nov 6, 2014
http://marvel.com/news/tv/23620/bridget_regan_joins_marvels_agent_carter?utm_campaign=rss_feeds&utm_source=headline_news&utm_medium=rss&utm_content=story-23620&

[statsgirl]

I don't think the first meeting is really that important. One of the best tv couples ever imo was one that was married with a teen daughter in FNL. In fact most of the pairings sans Matt/Julie didn't have first meets (and that first meet was hardly pleasant). 

I think more than the TV couples meeting each other, how the TV audience first meets them is the important one.  For Oliver and Laurel, Laurel was mad at him.   For Oliver and Felicity, he smiled.

 

I was actually wondering that myself. We don't know where Slade's little home away from home came from but presumably it wasn't built with public knowledge so how would Malcolm even be aware of it?

It's ARGUS' prison.  He didn't need to know about Slade, just that ARGUS had a super secret prison.

 

Someone elsewhere suggested that this episode teased Felicity's father being Dr. Fate.  I have no idea who that is.

 

Also elsewhere, some said that the Black Canary in the comics is often angry and bitter, so it makes sense that Laurel on Arrow should be too.  Does that make sense?

Edited November 7, 2014 by statsgirl

[BkWurm1]

My experience with Black Canary is limited to animated versions, the one on Smallville and a lot of wiki reading. On Smallville she was suspicious and quick to judge but she started as a right wing talk show host who moonlighted as a paid thug if she believed an injustice was being done so probably not a good example. In the animated versions, I would never call her angry or bitter. In Young Justice she was the voice of strength and reason and patience. She even acted as a therapist/counselor. In the Justice League Unlimited series she was a bit more reckless but usually only in an effort to save people important to her. I would have called her determined, passionate and sure of her abilities.

The wiki references about her character talk about her leadership skills and focus but I've never picked up on bitter.

[Morrigan2575]

Also elsewhere, some said that the Black Canary in the comics is often angry and bitter, so it makes sense that Laurel on Arrow should be too. Does that make sense?

That's not the Dinah I know. She's more of a warm, loving strong friend/leader/parter. She's got a bit of a wild streak and can totally kickass but she's also Roy's "big sister" and Sin's adopted mother and, kind of fun.

Sara is more Dinah than Laurel (IMO). There are times I'm reading the comics and think yeah that's Sara. Or on the show Sara will do/say something and I'll think yeah I can totally see Dinah doing/saying that.

Danny Franks, Writersblock and Mars (if she/he is still around) are huge BoP fans and could give you better insight to the character.