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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
in Arrow

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

I don't know but it's the only thing I can think of.

I'm surprised they didn't just start out with Iris being a beat reporter in the first place. Then have her be the first to break the Flash/Meta Human story which catapults her into big time investigative journalism. This would give her a reason to be around the police station, court house and show up at crime scenes, thus giving Iris legit reasons to be part of Barry's story.

The downside to that would be secrets and lies since they'd be in adversarial roles. At least until Barry finally comes clean about being The Flash.

In the end, I just think AJK didn't think of Iris as a character beyond Love Interest and family member.

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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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kismet

kismet

Iris is completely a writers problem. There are perfectly legitimate ways to include her into the story whether she was a reporter or a psychologist. The actress is also really good at elevating her material and seems to connect with the audience. So if its not the character or the actress, then it must be the writing. The writers seem to have a limited view of what Iris should do. They also probably only have a finite amount of plots in the Iris Vault and they are afraid to use them before s3/4. It's dumb, but I honestly have less faith in the Flash writers room than I do the Arrow. The Arrow writers room may heavily really upon tropes and cliches. But they move their stories and they utilize their characters. The FLASH literally writes the basic plot week after week. Run faster Barry is about it. So why would I expect this group of writers to come up with better storylines for the comic canon LI, when they know they have to stall the relationship because TV states we can't get together the couple before a certain season. I'm surprised they haven't just sent Iris on assignment somewhere and bring her back only when she is going to be with BA.

 

I do think beyond the normal stalling of the canon couple. The show is trying to use Iris to bring in the standard CW drama, so that it doesn't tarnish their hero. They have benched her stories until they use her as a LI. But they need her around so they throw at her the non-dead deadbeat Mama, the newly discovered sibling, the sacrificial lover's death, the secrets & lies. She is their melodrama outlet, so BA can remain untarnished.

 

Lastly, I think they only write the stories for episodes not for series arcs. It's why when they have great guest villains like they have for the MWF, the episode will be amazing. Because like a good short story, they can write what they want & not be worried about carryover. The only character that has really been given a series long arc has been Wells. Everybody else is basically just a weekly rinse/repeat/redo plot or story. So because Iris is not in BA's usual haunts, she is often forgotten about. They would have to make an effort with Iris and clearly they've made a decision that the effort is not worth it at this time.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I don't mind that Flash is a whole more procedural-y than Arrow ever was. I don't need a show to be serialized to enjoy it. Actually, one of the reasons I find Flash so enjoyable is the fact that I can take each episode on its own.

 

And the way the show is set up is pretty good imo -- except for Iris. It's CSI: Central City, a bunch of scientists and a couple of cops investigating the freak of the week, and the hero protagonist is the bridge between the scientists and the cops because he works with/for both.

 

What's plain BIZARRE to me is that they established a character as an investigative reporter in a show that investigates a rando meta every week, except Iris doesn't investigate anything. THAT PART is forever nuts.

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Delphi

Delphi

(edited)

From my reading of the Flash board, they attribute Iris getting shafted to being a woman of color (they badly need a bitterness thread). I disagree, I think the problem is that like Laurel, she's an iconic character from the comics who doesn't really fit into the show that they are writing.

Any thoughts?

Ugh. I commented on this earlier. I hate to put opinions on this topic into words because it can be taken so far out of context and I'm not a person of color so I don't want to come off as part of the problem. (I am I scrawny, gay guy so I do have some limited experience of being treated badly). But no, I don't think Iris is getting shafted because Candice is mixed. The powers that be chose Candice, they were fully aware that she is black. Out of the three girls Barry has had romantic intentions for one is a black girl, one is an Asian girl and one is a white girl. And, as I said up thread, the Flash is really good about having a lot of ethnic variety in the cast in a way other shows aren't.

I think people like to throw in the race card involving Iris because they think it makes their argument more valid even though if you look at the series as a whole it really doesn't add up. The problem is tptb trying to stall the romance and not having a very good grasp on writing female characters. Candice is a very good actress, and very pretty and I'm sorry she's not getting as much exposure and screen time that her fans would like. But I really wish that everyone would stop trying to spin it as the producers being racist bigots.

Edited by Delphi
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

OK - this looks just as stupid as BC doing the Canary Cry...

 

I think screaming in general looks stupid, and is very difficult to pull off without looking like you're taking the dump of your life. Scared screams work best for me.

 

Edited to clarify that I'm not talking about power-activating screams.

Edited by apinknightmare
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

I think power screaming in general looks stupid, and is very difficult to pull off without looking like you're taking the dump of your life. Scared screams seem like they'd be easier.

Was she "power screaming"? I thought she was just screaming in frustration/anger because Carter was an ass?
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Was she "power screaming"? I thought she was just screaming in frustration/anger because Carter was an ass?

 

I didn't mean power screaming like to activate powers, I just meant any kind of screaming to show aggression/anger/to make a loud noise. Scared screaming is the only kind of screaming that really ever translates for me.

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Trini

Trini

I don't know why they changed Iris from being a psychologist to a barista/reporter. As a psychologist she could've worked at the police station and Team Flash could've brought her in to help with the metas. They don't seem to know how to utilize Iris as a reporter. 

 

I think they changed it because comics.

 

I'm surprised they didn't just start out with Iris being a beat reporter in the first place. Then have her be the first to break the Flash/Meta Human story which catapults her into big time investigative journalism. This would give her a reason to be around the police station, court house and show up at crime scenes, thus giving Iris legit reasons to be part of Barry's story.

 

I think the writers just changed their minds between the pilot and when they really started working on fleshing out the season. Iris studying psychology was mentioned exactly once in the second episode. I'm guessing they realized they should have had her be a reporter (or journalism student) from the start.

 

[Has there ever been a comic book show where a main character was a psychologist?]

 

Iris is completely a writers problem. There are perfectly legitimate ways to include her into the story whether she was a reporter or a psychologist. The actress is also really good at elevating her material and seems to connect with the audience. So if its not the character or the actress, then it must be the writing. The writers seem to have a limited view of what Iris should do. ...

 

So because Iris is not in BA's usual haunts, she is often forgotten about. They would have to make an effort with Iris and clearly they've made a decision that the effort is not worth it at this time.

Yep.

 

... But I really wish that everyone would stop trying to spin it as the producers being racist bigots.

I know that idea is often repeated, but not everyone thinks that.  :)

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tarotx

tarotx

(edited)

I wish Iris was a psychologist because Hello this universe is in desperate need for one if just for Oliver Queen alone. I personally liked when Iris was a blogger. She could have been doing her secret superhero meetings with everybody and being a rooftop therapist for all 3 cast. I say the shows should go back to this to give CP work. I think they have to stall her and Barry's relationship until they get brave enough to kill Joe. Though maybe bringing in Joe's real son will help in creating a shift from Joe is Barry's father and hence Iris's brother.

 

I personally think Cisco is adorable with his one lines and can pull off fear and pain but he totally sucks at romance stuff and not just because he comes off as a child. Caitlin breathes with her mouth. It's weird to watch her act so I'm always taken out of her scenes. She comes off as young as well. Barry does too though. That show comes off as a teen show staring non teens.

 

Katie  just doesn't present what Laurel is suppose to be showing us. I think she was just horribly miscast. Like her saying to Felicity and that is why we love you just came off as mocking and I doubt it really was suppose too. 

Edited by tarotx
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bijoux

bijoux

Seeing Wells brought up made me think about what happened to the real Earth 1 Harrison Wells. Could someone give me the cliff notes, did Eobard Thawne (I hope I spelled that correctly) kill him when he took over his identity?

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Genki

Genki

Seeing Wells brought up made me think about what happened to the real Earth 1 Harrison Wells. Could someone give me the cliff notes, did Eobard Thawne (I hope I spelled that correctly) kill him when he took over his identity?

 

Yeah he did, which is why the hate and side-eye E2 Harry gets is really frustrating to me.

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wingster55

wingster55

I'm surprised they didn't just start out with Iris being a beat reporter in the first place.

 

I think some of that is pilot-itis. But also, to a lesser degree, season 1 was also her becoming a reporter and stepping into that world (her arc was a bit inconsistent but it was there). All of the Flash adulation we see in s2 is because of her. 

 

I do think that her race lead to fan backlash and it's easy for the writers to give in to that, as well as their love for the idea of a "trio".

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statsgirl

statsgirl

I think the screaming is supposed to be rage for all three characters but there's a difference between concept and what it ends up looking like on screen.

[Has there ever been a comic book show where a main character was a psychologist?]

I don't think so but there should be. He/she has a super power that once the diagnosis of the bad guy is correct, he/she can transform himself/herself into an identical version and defeat him.  (English really needs a gender neutral pronoun.)

 

Laurel got an even worse backlash than Iris did so that can't be attributed to racism.  I didn't read any anti-Iris comments but there may have been some vitriol that was racially motivated. But the Iris Problem, like the Laurel Problem, I think is a case of the writers wanting to have an iconic comic book character on their show but not being willing to write for her.. 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I think it's all human-bird screaming that's a problem...

 

van_helsing_10.png

(Harpy from Van Helsing)

 

... - and it hasn't escaped my notice that they didn't have Hawkman do the silly scream.

Edited by tv echo
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

... - and it hasn't escaped my notice that they didn't have Hawkman do the silly scream.

 

Oh, they never ever would. All the superpowered screaming ladies in modern fiction are probably based off banshees [Teen Wolf literally made one of its lady characters into a banshee. She screams too] and/or mermaids, i.e. mythical female figures that lead men to death. Screaming is a girly thing, always.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)

Marvel's Banshee is a guy (or at least he was, I think Sean's dead now).  So we have had both a male comics and movie character that "screams".  There's also Marvel's Inhuman Blackbolt, who actually doesn't talk or scream in fact he has to remain mute because even a whisper could destroy an entire city.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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nksarmi

nksarmi

(edited)

I actually don't mind the Canary Cry - but you know, if they are going to use it - it should do something.  That scene in the crossover where she did and it did nothing was clearly a special effects ooppsie moment.

 

In regards to Katie - I don't know her other work, but I don't think she's all that bad as Laurel.  I think the writing for Laurel is horrible and has been for years, but that's not really her fault.  Sure, she isn't one of those actresses who can do more with what she is given, but I don't believe that's all that common.  However, I do think some of Katie is starting to come into Laurel because she actually seemed damn uncomfortable with her "that's why we love you" line.  It was like she was thinking, "I have to say this but fans are going to eat me alive with it.  Can't I just have Thea's Indiana Jones line??!?!?"

Edited by nksarmi
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kismet

kismet

I think they're scrambling a little bit. They never release this much this early. The writers know they pissed off fans last week and Marc acting like a bratty child who got mad because no one was buying his story line showed his ass too. So yeah I wasn't expecting too much of a build up for this mid-season finale until Tuesday and really a hard press on Wednesday. They are pouring it on hard, I'm not complaining because it just gives me more to prepare myself with for Wednesday night.

 

On a side note that has nothing to do with Arrow: As far as The Flash mid-season finale not even watching that mess I saw way too much Patty for me to digest. Guess I'm not missing anything I gave up on that show as soon as they started with the bait and switch. Guess I could also FF past Patty but that might be every scene since they have deeply embedded her into all things dealing with Barry now even with the Flash!

I agree with you about the CW scrambling after Arrow's less than stellar critical & fan reception to BabyMama drama & MG's snarky fan interaction.

 

But as for the FLASH, ymmv on Patty as a character, so by no means am I telling you to watch for her. But they are bring back at least 2 pretty awesome villains (Cpt Cold & Mark Hamil's villain), can't place the 3rd and both of those guys generally knock their performances out of the park. I'm pretty un-invested in the FLASH from a character perspective and the show is not appointment TV for me, but I am looking more forward to the FLASH winter finale than I am the ARROW a show I am invested in. And it is completely separate from my disappointment with last week's episode. Even without the BabyMamaDrama, I still think that FLASH looks like they put together a better winter finale.

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pivot

pivot

 

Laurel got an even worse backlash than Iris did so that can't be attributed to racism.  I didn't read any anti-Iris comments but there may have been some vitriol that was racially motivated. But the Iris Problem, like the Laurel Problem, I think is a case of the writers wanting to have an iconic comic book character on their show but not being willing to write for her..

The problems with Laurel and Iris are completely different IMO. Laurel has gotten extensive screentime over the past 4 seasons and storylines unlike Iris. The problem is Katie can't act her way out of a paper bag so she could do nothing with the storylines she was given. She can't even pull off her one line in the crossover effectively. And I've seen Katie in Supernatural and Monte Carlo and she couldn't act in either of those either.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I think them putting so much of Barry/Iris in the backstory ended up kneecaping Iris worse than it did Laurel. L/O's back story was atrocious, but at least it gave the writers opportunities to give it screen time. It was unpleasant to watch, sure, but content was produced.

 

B/I coming into the story already as BFF, and with Barry already in love deprived the writers of content to put onscreen. And then it got worse, because the main B/I thing in S1 was Barry hiding things from Iris, which meant he had to keep going away from her/avoiding her to keep his secrets. Their lack of story was embedded in the premise. Which is just plain crazy bananapants, but there you go.

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quarks

quarks

I have one (well, more than one) reaction to tonight's episode of Supergirl.

 

GREEN LANTERN NOW, BERLANTI. 

 

Otherwise I am going to hunt you down at SDCC next year and wave green rings in your face. THIS IS NOT AN IDLE THREAT.

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nksarmi

nksarmi

I have one (well, more than one) reaction to tonight's episode of Supergirl.

 

GREEN LANTERN NOW, BERLANTI. 

 

Otherwise I am going to hunt you down at SDCC next year and wave green rings in your face. THIS IS NOT AN IDLE THREAT.

If DC is letting him have Martian Manhunter - I can't believe that Green Lantern would be out of the question for at least a three-episode arc.  I would think that would be especially doable if they do indeed use the John Stewart GL for the movies.  Let Oliver go ahead and have his friend Hal Jordan make an appearance - why the heck not?

The only sucky thing about Jon showing up is that they will probably exclude him from the movieverse where he belongs and deserves to be a proper star.

I don't think so.  There are already two Flashes and there are talks of a Black Canary showing up in the Justice League movie.  DC seems perfectly fine with the multiverse they have established.  At this point, I suspect the only stuff that is completely off limits in Batman related because of Gotham being on FOX (as opposed to the connectedness that CBS and CW share).  But then again, TNT's Titans is supposed to feature both Dick Grayson and Barbara Gordon so who knows what's off limits anymore and what isn't?

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quarks

quarks

Oh wow, he's really Martian Manhunter and not Cyborg Superman? Awesome. :) I wanted to get off work in time to watch it tonight but it didn't happen. :(

 

The entire episode is unbelievably cheesy, even by Supergirl's standards, but I think it's worth watching in any case. Because I may possibly have cheered just a little bit.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

Finally got to see it. Yeah there was some cheese. :). But I also think I enjoyed it the most of any episode yet. The only two things I didn't like were Winn acting like an ass about Kara and James hugging, and the good looking agent guy getting killed (sorry-lol). Which reminds me I need to look him up on IMDb - where do I know him from? ETA: Ah yes, he's Drew's boyfriend on Night Shift.

I'm really glad Hank is MM though. I was really starting to like him, and I'm glad he's not going to turn out to be a bad guy.

Oh yeah that reminds me of the third thing I didn't like - the return of Alura Astra. Does this mean more terrible looking mid-air fights? Those don't look as cool as you think they do, writers.

Edited by Starfish35
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FurryFury

FurryFury

The only two things I didn't like were Winn acting like an ass about Kara and James hugging, and the good looking agent guy getting killed (sorry-lol). Which reminds me I need to look him up on IMDb - where do I know him from? ETA: Ah yes, he's Drew's boyfriend on Night Shift.

 

Do you mean Luke McFarlane? He's also one of the main trio on Killjoys, which got a season 2, so I didn't expect him to survive (unfortunately).

 

The ep was cheesy, but still nice. The love triangle part is the only stuff that's not working at all.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

Do you mean Luke McFarlane? He's also one of the main trio on Killjoys, which got a season 2, so I didn't expect him to survive (unfortunately).

Yeah that's him. The Night Shift is the only thing I've seen him on. He has a recurring role as the boyfriend of Brendan Fehr's character.

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kismet

kismet

(edited)

Haven't seen SG episode yet, but I loved Luke MacFarlane in Brothers & Sisters where he played Scotty, Kevin's husband. He had such a good response & chemistry with the overall cast, I feel like I read somewhere that they changed his role & made it bigger & more important.

I feel like Berlanti is becoming like jj Abrams where he takes along his little rolodex of friends/former collaborators to all of his new projects. Basically if you have worked for the either of those 2 and didn't offend them you can basically assume you will be invited back to their projects if you're looking for a job.

Edited by kismet
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kismet

kismet

(edited)

SG films in LA right? So it's not possible that they share wardrobe cast-offs or stock basics? Unless Arrow has already turned that shirt over to one of the parent companies' closets. I don't mind similarities, but really I feel like the SG wardrobe dept should be trying to find Kara's own fashion voice. That is the exact shirt, not just a common color & cut shirt.

They both look amazing, but I expect a little more from wardobe on SG. Unless its a budget thing.

Edited by kismet
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wonderwall

wonderwall

Regarding that Iris spoiler...I guess this means more screen time for her, but it sounds like what they have planned is going to separate her from the main cast even more.  I just don't get it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I'm hoping they're not giving her a love interest just to make Barry jealous or whatever... Good for Iris, but yeah, I can see this separating her from the main cast even more. 

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tv echo

tv echo

Just like Arrow and Flash, Supergirl is apparently also getting a related comic book (titled SUPERGIRL: DIGITAL FIRST VOL. 1)...

 

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/12/06/ongoing-supergirl-comic-from-dc-confirmed-as-a-digital-first-title/
http://www.amazon.com/Supergirl-Digital-First-Vol-1/dp/1401262651/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1449458786&sr=8-2&keywords=supergirl+digital+first&linkCode=sl1&tag=richjohnston-20&linkId=8620f9b2651789f97f8c92f3e3f9ea5b

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kismet

kismet

Regarding that Iris spoiler...I guess this means more screen time for her, but it sounds like what they have planned is going to separate her from the main cast even more.  I just don't get it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's unfortunate but predictable turn of events... It looks like they are taking a page from both the LL & FS playbooks. Separate canon LI in completely unrelated plot line and pair her up with a "special" guy/boss who is questionably crossing of professional boundaries in the name of sexual tension & cliche storylines.

 

Here is hoping the FLASH writers are better at tropes than the ARROW writers because CP/IW does deserve better than what they've given her this season.

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kismet

kismet

Random thoughts after watching Supergirl ~

 

-They really do like to lay the cheese on heavy don't they?? Yet, why do I find it still so enjoyable. It's boarding on a sugarcoated after-school special most episodes, but still I like it.

 

-Why is Peter Facinelli so convincing at playing a quasi-doctor (or went to medical school) on multiple shows. First Twilight & Nurse Jackie and now SG, I absolutely believe that he has no idea what he is talking about, but he says it with such conviction that I just want to believe everything he says. He's overacting so hard on the medical front that it makes it so much more enjoyable even though its not realistic.

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