Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[insomniadreams88]

Well, at least The Flash fans can probably be assured that the 100th will honor all 99 episodes before it and not mostly its first season. 

Edited December 28, 2017 by insomniadreams88
Replaced “just” with “mostly” for accuracy instead of bitterness

[Primal Slayer]

The Flash hasnt gone through the amount of changes Arrow has and they've already dealt with living alternate lives so I dont see them exploring their own version of Arrows 100 100%. 

[statsgirl]

The problem with putting it on Supergirl's world is that it severely limits which Earth 1  characters they will use because they have to find reasons for having those characters cross over. That means we'll get lots of Barry and Oliver since they are the stars of their shows and we'll get one other person, two of we're lucky from each show. That means probably little Felicity since she's not a mask or costume. Probably little Iris too, they would take Cisco and maybe Ralph over before they would take Iris or Caitlin.

I think it would be better to do the next crossover based on LoT instead.

Do you think they would re-do Barry's ideal world again for the 100th? They really seem to love the idea even though they've done it to death.

[JJ928]

33 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

This crossover made me realize the Arrowverse doesn't know what to do with Kara/SG. IMO, she really didn't have a story during Crisis, that was more Alex's. Them making her and Oliver evil seemed to be more for shock value and so they could give her something to do because without evil Kara there was really nothing for her other than being a supporting character in Alex's arc. 

I also found it interesting that during the crossover, emotional stories were told for Arrow, Supergirl and Legend characters but nothing for The Flash, if you think about it. Iris and Barry want to get married — and then they got married, that was pretty much the be all and end all of their arc. 

As for next year's crossover, I don't care what they do as long as they put Oliver AND Felicity front and center again. I find I have no interest if it's just Oliver, like last year's crossover (which I still think is one of the worst Arrow episodes ever). 

I don't watch SG so I was expecting to be confused with her story, but there was no story. Other than a couple cool fight scenes, she was needed for her heart & Overgirl's whole purpose was getting that heart.

 

I don't think they'll do exactly what Arrow did but I can see them going in a similar route. I can't see them missing a chance to bring back Barry's parents, and I just don't know how'd they do it unless it's an AU or coma/dreamlike state. Also, Berlanti tends to reuse stories throughout his shows, and this is not limited to arrowverse, Blindspot has had quite a few similar arcs.

IMO, Felicity will definitely crossover regardless of the earth they're on, and it's my hope that Iris would too but I am less sure about her. I think Cisco is a given.

What if instead of doing Barry's ideal world, they gave him a nightmare version of that world. Say his parents are alive, he's married to Iris, he's the Flash etc... but everything is horrible. Maybe his parents are criminals, the Flash is hated, Iris hates him and has a side piece. Could be interesting to have Barry in a world where everything is awful for him... I know I'd enjoy it because I can't stand him lol.

Edited December 28, 2017 by JJ928

[SmallScreenDiva]

13 minutes ago, JJ928 said:

I think Cisco is a given.

Maybe not. I was actually quite surprised at how they sidelined him in the Arrow episode. Then again, I was stunned by the lack of Diggle as well. I've thought of those two characters as "given" when it comes to crossovers.

[JJ928]

I think juggling two versions of Oliver, Kara, Wells, etc.. was just too much for them to handle. I was upset Diggle was left out of the crossover, but imo Cisco is a safer bet than he is.

[Primal Slayer]

I was glad that there was a little bit of shake up with Diggle not being there. But I'd much rather some of the smaller characters get something to do, this was Iris' first major crossover so bring her back for sure. But it'll be the usuals. 

Here are some of DC events that none of the shows have touched yet and would make a good crossover,

Quote

Identity Crisis

Identity Crisis opened with the savage murder of Elongated Man's wife, Sue Dibny. That kicked off a heated search for her killer, which resulted in numerous dark secrets emerging about DC's heroes and some less than savory acts they committed. By the end, several major characters were dead, and a huge rift had formed among the Justice League.

DC One Million

DC basically handed the keys of their universe over to Grant Morrison for a month as he crafted the DC One Million event. This story flashed forward to the 853rd Century (the era Morrison calculated when Action Comics would reach its millionth issue), as the JLA of the present were whisked forward to team up with their future counterparts and battle an alliance of Vandal Savage and Solaris the Living Sun. As far as Morrison's writing goes, the whole thing was pretty straightforward.

Forever Evil

DC's latest line-wide crossover wound up being one of its best. Forever Evil was all about celebrating DC's villains. After an attack by the Crime Syndicate of Earth-3 left the Justice League out of commission, Lex Luthor had no choice but to assemble an army of bad guys and girls (including Catwoman, Sinestro, Black Manta, Black Adam, Captain Cold, and Bizarro) to defend his world from these invaders.

Zero Hour 

arallax attempted to use his awesome powers to rewrite the DC Universe. Time became unwound, strange versions of familiar characters began appearing, and the fight to save existence was on.

Armageddon 2001

 Co-written by Denny O'Neil and Archie Goodwin, the story involved a new hero named Waverider who hailed from a dark future where a tyrant named Monarch ruled the world. Waverider discovered that Monarch was a 20th Century superhero who fell to evil, and so he traveled back in time to discover that hero's identity and prevent the Monarch from ever being born. The entire event hinged on that mystery. Which iconic hero was the Monarch?

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/01/28/ranking-dcs-15-event-comics-from-best-to-worst

All would somewhat easy to adapt to the Flarrowverse.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Primal Slayer

[BkWurm1]

Quote

I also found it interesting that during the crossover, emotional stories were told for Arrow, Supergirl and Legend characters but nothing for The Flash, if you think about it. Iris and Barry want to get married — and then they got married, that was pretty much the be all and end all of their arc. 

Which is why I wouldn't be surprised if Barry and the Flash crew will be a big focus in next year's crossover.  The 100th for Arrow was fit in but that was when each episode was still pretty individualized for each show.  I'd be surprised and if they dropped the "one big movie" narrative for the next crossover since it IMO makes for a much more cohesive story and was so well received this year, but then that means most of the focus probably will go to The Flash the whole time.     

That said, I'd love to do something with body swapping or power swapping to give the actors something to play with or even just do a what if, like what if Team Flash had been based in Star City and Team Arrow in Central City, how would that narratives been different??  Or what if all the heroes lose their powers and all the none masks got them?  Make Felicity the Flash and have Iris suddenly develope Oliver's skill set.  

I want anything that keeps the main focus of the crossover on character interaction and doesn't get bogged down in unimportant big bads.  

[tennisgurl]

6 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

They could adapt the episode of Superfriends where the LoD goes back to each of the JL past in an attempt to stop them from becoming the heroes they go on to become and they actually succeed. This could cause the Legends to leap through time. 

I had forgotten that episode! Thats a pretty good idea, and it could allow the LoT crew to take the lead, while also giving the other characters some time to shine. Maybe some villains time travel back to when Oliver and Sara went on that fateful 3 hour tour and keep them from going on board? Or they stop Barry's mom from being killed, or stop him from being in his lab when the particle accelerator exploded? And that leads to a chain reaction that changes everything and keeps most (if not all) of the heroes from ever becoming superheroes in the first place. Not sure how that would affect Kara, but maybe someone calls for help before the timeline affects them? Maybe normal Oliver turns into another timeline Oliver who never ended up on the island and is just a hard drinking party boy without fighting skills, or other changes like that? 

I would enjoy seeing the crossover take place on Kara's Earth, but I think it would be a bit of a logistical nightmare, especially if they wanted to have characters besides Oliver and Barry show up. Kara's Earth would mean less time with the Earth 1 characters, and that kind of takes the fun out of a crossover. I think it would be cool to have a smaller crossover with just a few characters going to Kara's Earth for an episode or two. I think, with them wanting to go bigger each year, that time travel would be their best bet. 

[Trini]

1 hour ago, ruby24 said:

The fact that the next crossover falls on The Flash's 100th is why I hope they consider moving it. That was a very awkward setup with Arrow's 100th, because of course they had to make the episode primarily about that show and its history. The same thing will have to be done with The Flash, but they just had everyone come to Central City for an event involving Flash characters this year, so I doubt they will do that again.

The result will be a standalone Flash episode in the middle of the crossover event, like what happened with Arrow, or they just ignore it and don't pay tribute to Flash's 100th in any significant way (which I really don't see happening).

I don't think it has to play out like that. I think the Flash writers seem more willing to have other characters involved on their show; like they'd want everyone who has been connected to Barry/Central City/the Flash to show up as a tribute. The 100th celebration might be directly connected to the overall crossover story. Because...

 

1 hour ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

... I also found it interesting that during the crossover, emotional stories were told for Arrow, Supergirl and Legend characters but nothing for The Flash, if you think about it. Iris and Barry want to get married — and then they got married, that was pretty much the be all and end all of their arc. ...

5 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Which is why I wouldn't be surprised if Barry and the Flash crew will be a big focus in next year's crossover. 

... yeah; the Flash writers clearly got shortchanged and/or overruled this year. I'm guessing the trade-off was that they get more creative control next year, with the 100th during the crossover. (I hope!)

[BkWurm1]

2 minutes ago, Trini said:

... yeah; the Flash writers clearly got shortchanged and/or overruled this year. I'm guessing the trade-off was that they get more creative control next year, with the 100th during the crossover. (I hope!)

On the other hand, since Barry is such the main focus on The Flash maybe they just CAN'T put the focus of the crossover on him since logistically they can't free Grant up enough to be the focus of the crossover.  But I'd be fine if Barry was missing or stuck somewhere off screen while the rest of the characters ran around trying to save him.  

[Primal Slayer]

I know CW wants to be as cheap as possible but they need to start production on all the shows next season 1-2 weeks earlier then usual so they carve out the proper time to shoot the big crossover and not have to work on multiple episodes of each individual show at the same time.

[ruby24]

A lot of people who watch The Flash are predicting that Iris will be pregnant by the season finale, because of all the hints they've been dropping, and the appearance of what is very likely their future daughter.

IF she is...that would make the birth of the twins right around the Flash's 100th episode. I could see that happening.

Some of this stuff is very predictable. For the record, I and others predicted a crossover wedding the minute Barry and Iris got engaged, just because of the timing. I thought they wouldn't be able to resist that. And given what we found out about Berlanti wanting the wedding in the crossover a year ahead of time, I think that explains the speed of their engagement too (which did seem really fast last year).

Having a birth occur at one of the show's big milestones seems like a similar, huge event that would be dramatic/life-altering, etc. We'll see.

Edited December 28, 2017 by ruby24

[WindofChange]

35 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

A lot of people who watch The Flash are predicting that Iris will be pregnant by the season finale, because of all the hints they've been dropping, and the appearance of what is very likely their future daughter.

IF she is...that would make the birth of the twins right around the Flash's 100th episode. I could see that happening.

I would certainly hope Iris has more to do in the crossovers next year than to just wait for her supposed baby to arrive. I mean her being 8-9 months pregnant would severely incapacitate her for the entire crossover and likely would make it rather difficult for her to cross over.

Also it'd be a shame for the Flash to marry off Iris and get her pregnant ASAP before she ever even tried to get her journalism career off the ground. I'd like Iris to have more agency than just being Barry's LI and the mother of Barry's children. Because her being pregnant during the course of the season will also limit what she's able to do on the team and in general which would also severely shorten her screentime.

Idk why one would want to shortchange Iris like that... But if having a baby is the only storyline she can get then maybe there are other problems the show needs to address with respect to Iris' character and just how integral she is to the show.

Edited December 28, 2017 by WindofChange

[ruby24]

Actually she'd only be pregnant for the first part of the season, since most of the pregnancy would take place offscreen over the break.

[WindofChange]

9 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

Actually she'd only be pregnant for the first part of the season, since most of the pregnancy would take place offscreen over the break.

And then she'd have to take care of a baby afterwards unless something happens to the kid and it's sent to the future which could be a possibility considering comic canon. 

It'd be very river song esque

Edited December 28, 2017 by WindofChange

[GHScorpiosRule]

8 hours ago, Delphi said:

I'd love old Ollie meeting present Ollie,  if only for the hilarity of him saying "I can't believe i was ever that green."

Please No. Bad enough this show has already stolen enough from Batman. Is it too much to ask them to come up with anything original?

KEVIN FUCKING! CONROY OWNS that episode as far as I’m concerned.

And yes, I realize I’m in the minority of ONE in this.  

[Featherhat]

56 minutes ago, WindofChange said:

I would certainly hope Iris has more to do in the crossovers next year than to just wait for her supposed baby to arrive. I mean her being 8-9 months pregnant would severely incapacitate her for the entire crossover and likely would make it rather difficult for her to cross over.

Also it'd be a shame for the Flash to marry off Iris and get her pregnant ASAP before she ever even tried to get her journalism career off the ground. I'd like Iris to have more agency than just being Barry's LI and the mother of Barry's children. Because her being pregnant during the course of the season will also limit what she's able to do on the team and in general which would also severely shorten her screentime.

Idk why one would want to shortchange Iris like that... But if having a baby is the only storyline she can get then maybe there are other problems the show needs to address with respect to Iris' character and just how integral she is to the show.

 

I agree, they've already had them marry at the beginning of the 4th season and for a show that could end up going 10+ years, it's awfully rushed to have her give birth a year later, they have a lot of time to spread things out a bit. 

Once Iris gets pregnant and has a baby (especially twins) I think that's 90% of what she'll be doing for the rest of the show's run so goodbye to any being a director of Team Flash or a reporter except as a one off. That's a long time for the character and actress to be sidelined. I'm not saying that's for sure what would happen but they've had trouble giving Iris anything to do when she *wasn't* pregnant, last season the whole storyline was about her being killed and she had barely any POV in it and even her increased screen time this year has been largely about her wedding.

The beauty of having time travel is they can do storylines featuring their future children and grandchildren without bogging the show or characters down with babies right away. Barry would also have to consider if being the Flash was too dangerous and perhaps hand over to Wally, which is exactly what Oliver is doing right now, and if he doesn't at least consider it, he'd be a crappy father. 

They've already got Joe as a older Dad drama if they want a baby storyline in the near future. We know they have kids and that this show is going at least a few more seasons I can't see any advantage to rushing it. I suppose it's possible they have their teased "marital issues" (probably about two minutes worth given these  writers, though that might change sans AK) and then Iris finds out she's pregnant then hurrah reconciliation in the finale but there are other character/relationship storylines they could explore first unless their intention is to prove how awesome WestAllen are by burning through milestones with minimal writing. 

[Sakura12]

2 hours ago, WindofChange said:

I would certainly hope Iris has more to do in the crossovers next year than to just wait for her supposed baby to arrive. I mean her being 8-9 months pregnant would severely incapacitate her for the entire crossover and likely would make it rather difficult for her to cross over.

Also it'd be a shame for the Flash to marry off Iris and get her pregnant ASAP before she ever even tried to get her journalism career off the ground. I'd like Iris to have more agency than just being Barry's LI and the mother of Barry's children. Because her being pregnant during the course of the season will also limit what she's able to do on the team and in general which would also severely shorten her screentime.

Idk why one would want to shortchange Iris like that... But if having a baby is the only storyline she can get then maybe there are other problems the show needs to address with respect to Iris' character and just how integral she is to the show.

I thought they dropped Iris' journalism career? So she really doesn't have anything to get off the ground. They don't care about giving her anything outside of being Barry's main pep talker. She the leader of Team Flash only in name not in purpose.  I like Candice Patton, but she does have a thankless job on that show. I can see the Flash writers thinking that Iris being pregnant with the Tornado Twins is a great purpose and storyline for her. If they go that route, I'm glad I gave up on the Flash, I don't want to see them turn Iris into a crazy pregnant woman like they did with her interrupting a funeral, crawling over a coffin as a crazy bride. 

[JJ928]

The last thing I want is Iris pregnant. She gets no story as it is, and that would be the best way to sideline her further. Leave preganancies for series finales, I feel the same about Felicity. 

Imagine a pregnant Iris. The only story leading up to the birth will be being pregnant and most likely kidnapped. Then after she delivers, forget team leader or anything tbh, she’ll be mom while Barry is allowed to be dad and hero. These writers do not care about her enough to do it justice.

[Primal Slayer]

If they do end up knocking up Iris, I dont think they will leave the baby..a baby for to long. They will either be kidnapped or grow at a rapid rate. But I dont think The Flash is mature enough yet to handle giving WestAllen children yet.

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I thought they dropped Iris' journalism career? So she really doesn't have anything to get off the ground. They don't care about giving her anything outside of being Barry's main pep talker. She the leader of Team Flash only in name not in purpose.  I like Candice Patton, but she does have a thankless job on that show. I can see the Flash writers thinking that Iris being pregnant with the Tornado Twins is a great purpose and storyline for her. If they go that route, I'm glad I gave up on the Flash, I don't want to see them turn Iris into a crazy pregnant woman like they did with her interrupting a funeral, crawling over a coffin as a crazy bride. 

Yeah, Candice Patton hasn't been happy that Iris isn't shown to be a journalist anymore. The show only has a one mind attention span with their female characters, but especially Iris. They can't give her too much to do before they lose interest. She doesn't seem to get to have a voice much of the time. This season has improved on her POV, but then they took away her journalism career, and it's no wonder people are complaining about Iris being leader of Team Flash. The show has given her nothing to do on Team Flash before this season. The most they've done is allowed her to research on the computers before this season. 

And I don't know what will happen with Iris with Andrew Kreisberg being gone, but I'm completely terrified that they'll have Iris get pregnant and then have her focus on being a mom and not much else, stepping down from leader to Barry again. That's the last thing I want, which is why I don't want her to be pregnant. Sure, they might just send off the twins at some point so the kids can grow up quickly and they'll bring them onto the show later on, but they also might not do that. 

Candice Patton deserves a whole lot more than the shit she's been given on this show. Season 1 might be the best characterization for her, and she didn't have much of a voice to begin with in that season. But at least she got to tell off Barry, and she had a job that they showed her working at, and she also had Linda as a friend. Season 4 has done better in terms of giving her a POV, but she's behaved weirdly in some of the episodes (the funeral scene, the wedding gift registry scene), because they should have been writing for Iris four seasons ago, and not just doing it now. It's just very, very jarring to see her go from wise leader who gives pep talks to crazy bridezilla who's obsessed with her wedding. That's on the showrunners, not on CP and that's why I can't really put the blame on Iris. It just feels like some writers wipe the slate and do what they want with Iris because they don't really know what else to give her. 

They really need to give her a storyline of her own that has nothing to do with Barry. Which is why I don't want it to be pregnancy related. 

[WindofChange]

I don't even think Barry is mature enough to be a father and Iris hasn't really done much in her young life so to be saddled with being a mother... well... that's just not right for the writers to do this to her character. 

And while Oliver/Felicity are mature enough to have kids in maybe a year or so and I would like to see Olicity handle being 'new' parents, I still don't want the show to make Felicity pregnant until the last season... Although unlike Flash I do feel like Arrow would try harder with incorporating a pregnant Felicity into the plot and still manage to make her integral to the show outside her motherhood and connection to Oliver. 

[tennisgurl]

I hope they hold off on the WestAllen baby for awhile, or if they REALLY want to something with the Tornado Twins, they have them show up as already grown time travelers (which may or may not have already happened) instead. Maybe they show up to warn about some disaster coming up that isn’t supposed to happen, and that kicks off the crossover. Babies are tough on any show, especially one based around action, and I can’t see the Flash nailing the balance, especially if Iris just becomes “Mom” as her only job. Wait until the last season or so. 

[Lady Calypso]

I stand by my opinion that none of the Arrowverse shows should have kids on it unless they're brought on very rarely, like Baby Sara JJ is. Arrow has William now, which was something I was dreading, and although they've done a better job that I anticipated with him, he doesn't need to be part of every single episode. Kids are just a big no-no for this type of show for me. I don't want them on Legends, or The Flash, or Supergirl (go away Ruby!) either. I can't imagine a kid being an important part of any of these shows, nor should they be. 

[Featherhat]

Yeah I'm also dreading Alex potentially adopting/fostering Ruby on Supergirl because she realised she really wanted to be a Mother, despite her insanely high risk job. 

18 minutes ago, WindofChange said:

And while Oliver/Felicity are mature enough to have kids in maybe a year or so and I would like to see Olicity handle being 'new' parents, I still don't want the show to make Felicity pregnant until the last season... Although unlike Flash I do feel like Arrow would try harder with incorporating a pregnant Felicity into the plot and still manage to make her integral to the show outside her motherhood and connection to Oliver. 

Agreed. She could conceivably direct coms/hack/provide stuff for the tech company what they need from wherever they are living if she needs to and Arrow has been better than Flash at using female characters (mostly) but I think Curtis would end up being chief geek even so, so I would prefer it to be 2nd half of the last season if it happens. 

26 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I hope they hold off on the WestAllen baby for awhile, or if they REALLY want to something with the Tornado Twins, they have them show up as already grown time travelers (which may or may not have already happened) instead. Maybe they show up to warn about some disaster coming up that isn’t supposed to happen, and that kicks off the crossover. Babies are tough on any show, especially one based around action, and I can’t see the Flash nailing the balance, especially if Iris just becomes “Mom” as her only job. Wait until the last season or so. 

Yeah I don't see Flash handling the balance well. They'll either be mostly off screen with Cecile babysitting them with their aunt/uncle or Iris will be mostly off screen doing the same for most of the episodes until she or they are kidnapped. A River Song scenario is a possibility but they didn't handle Wally's permanent introduction to the group well, I can't see the grownup TTs being regulars or WestAllen reacting well to it. 

Speaking of female Flash characters, did this ever get discussed?

https://www.cbr.com/caity-lotz-spoil-legends-of-tomorrow-killer-frost/ 

We know Wally was spotted on the LOT set and makes sense to join as a mechanic but it's possible that DP could be doing a spot in the 2nd spare chair as well or could just be CL posting BTS from the crossover filming. Caitlin would probably be treated better on LOT than she ever has on The Flash and given she was treated better by the villains in the latest episode, might be in the mood for a change. 

[Sakura12]

That pic is most likely from the crossover. I really don't think they'd let Catiy spoil something like that on her social media. Wally was spotted filming for LoT and she hasn't posted any pics of him.  Caity was probably scrolling through her pics, found that one, like it and decided to post it. 

Edited December 28, 2017 by Sakura12

[SmallScreenDiva]

I can't see The Flash shuffling off Caitlin to LOT, she's pretty much their only female mask, isn't she? Now that Jesse is on Earth-2? Wally makes sense because really you don't need another speedster on The Flash. Just like when I complain about too many masks on Arrow ruining the show, having more than 1 speedster on The Flash is stupid. Can LOT take more masks? They can have all the noobs. Or just the bird. WD and Curtis can just go away.

[Sakura12]

We have the original and best Canary we don't need the 3rd replacement Canary. 

Wally makes sense because LoT needs an Engineer and that's what Wally was supposedly studying.  Although Mick would probably love Frost joining the team. 

[Primal Slayer]

Yeah, Caitlin wouldn't be as useful on Legends as she is on Flash since Gideon is their local doctor who can repair anything plot demands. Not to mention that she is probably more expensive in both actress and special effects then Wally.

[insomniadreams88]

I wouldn't mind seeing Caitlin on LoT for an episode, but I can't see them moving her over there. 

[Lady Calypso]

Yeah, I guarantee that picture was taken during the crossover. If they get rid of Caitlin on The Flash, that doesn't leave very many females left on that show. There'd be really only Iris and Cecile, but Cecile is a recurring character AND currently pregnant so her screentime is going down after she gives birth. I'm not a huge fan of Caitlin, but I also don't want The Flash to turn into The Dudebro Show (even more than it already is). It would probably lead me to finally dropping one of the Arrowverse shows, despite my love for Grant Gustin and Candice Patton.

[Primal Slayer]

I will be surprised if they allow Cecile to actually give birth to a baby. I still think something will happen. Giving Joe another kid this late in the game is stupid as hell.

[SmallScreenDiva]

32 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

We have the original and best Canary we don't need the 3rd replacement Canary. 

I may not be a Sara fan but I totally agree she is the best Canary. Which is why I'll never understand why WB didn't just make her THE BC even if she's not on Arrow. Retake the mantle after the poor copy's death, honor her sister or whatever. That way they could have a great representation of the character in a live-action series instead of having yet another bird who is just the latest copycat and still not very good at that. 

[Featherhat]

3 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I may not be a Sara fan but I totally agree she is the best Canary. Which is why I'll never understand why WB didn't just make her THE BC even if she's not on Arrow. Retake the mantle after the poor copy's death, honor her sister or whatever. That way they could have a great representation of the character in a live-action series instead of having yet another bird who is just the latest copycat and still not very good at that. 

She had the wrong name don't you know? I don't mind that Sara didn't take over the BC name from her sister, it was bad enough when Laurel basically Single White Femaled her, but Sara never needed to. She was already established as her own character by the time LL died and got a way better deal than any of the "official" BCs got in this verse without having to rely on a name and LOT now has much more leeway to evolve her character without any complaints. 

Yeah I figured the pic of DP was probably from the crossover, but it came up with a few articles so I thought it was worth posting.

27 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

but I also don't want The Flash to turn into The Dudebro Show (even more than it already is).

I've had to drop Flash again after starting to watch again this season, I just can't with Ralph Dibney and his "hero" journey, which has already got more attention than Caitlin's turn into Killer Frost got. 

[Starfish35]

11 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I may not be a Sara fan but I totally agree she is the best Canary. Which is why I'll never understand why WB didn't just make her THE BC even if she's not on Arrow. Retake the mantle after the poor copy's death, honor her sister or whatever. That way they could have a great representation of the character in a live-action series instead of having yet another bird who is just the latest copycat and still not very good at that. 

I don't get it either, other than for some reason wanting and/or being required to have a Canary on Arrow.  I was pretty upset about it for a while.  At this point I've accepted the existence of Dinah (possibly easier since I'm not watching Arrow anymore), and I like Juliana Harkavy from what I've read of her, but...there will always be a large part of me that wishes Sara could have been the Black Canary for real while leading the Legends team.  I love Sara, but I'm never going to be a huge fan of the White Canary thing, no matter how many times they redo the suit. 

As far as next year's crossover, I'd forgotten about it being The Flash's 100th.  Yeah, that probably does mean Barry and The Flash cast will get more focus.  I hope for their sake that they get a better 100th than Arrow did. :(   And I agree that it would have been a perfect time to do Flashpoint - too bad they already wasted that. 

It's just...not being the biggest fan of either Oliver or Barry, I'm getting tired of them taking the lead in the crossovers.  But...it is what it is, I suppose.

Yeah, I highly doubt they're moving Caitlin to Legends.  I will be surprised if it's NOT Wally at this point.  Which I still have very mixed feelings on - I did not like losing Jax.

[Primal Slayer]

Wasnt Caity alluding to going back to black  before S2 had started up? I think they might have planned it but GB wasnt here for it. I still laugh at MG basically being like "we do what we want, arrow doesnt need a canary" and then GB being all "I want a Canary". I think Dinahs costume was originally meant for either Sara or Laurel before they changed their minds on storylines. 

I still want to know what MGs "arc" was that he had planned for Laurel/BS on Legends that he never got around to doing. Give it to me.

[Sakura12]

Sara did get the better deal being a respected Captain of a super hero team. However Sara was the Black Canary even if she was never called that on screen.  She's leading a team of powered people who know she's not one to mess with. You can't say the same about the other 2. 

I'm thrilled that they keep scrapping the "Laurel arc".  I want my favorite show Laurel free, we had Sara's goodbye closure scene last season. I'd rather Quentin remember he has living daughter and go visit her. At this point I'm blaming Barry for erasing both Sara's from Arrow's time line. 

[Starfish35]

7 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Wasnt Caity alluding to going back to black  before S2 had started up? I think they might have planned it but GB wasnt here for it. I still laugh at MG basically being like "we do what we want, arrow doesnt need a canary" and then GB being all "I want a Canary". I think Dinahs costume was originally meant for either Sara or Laurel before they changed their minds on storylines. 

If I remember correctly, and I'm not certain I do, Caity mentioned getting a new suit for season two.  I don't know about "back to black" though.  

I do rather wonder though, whether that was the intention, and they got vetoed.  There's been a lot of little things that make me think that they (MG and Co)  still think of Sara as their Black Canary, even if they're not allowed to call her that.  But I'm well aware I'm looking at things through a biased viewpoint, so....*shrugs*

Edited December 28, 2017 by Starfish35

[tennisgurl]

3 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

She doesn't seem to get to have a voice much of the time. This season has improved on her POV, but then they took away her journalism career, and it's no wonder people are complaining about Iris being leader of Team Flash. The show has given her nothing to do on Team Flash before this season. The most they've done is allowed her to research on the computers before this season. 

The sad thing is, this has probably been the best season Iris has had since season 1. Iris still doesn't get her journalism career or much of a life outside of Team Flash, but she does get to have a bit more agency in her own life and with the team, and actually express her own opinions and emotions, and hasn't been damseled as much. Anything is better than last season though, where she was sidelined in a story line that was focused on her own murder (by an evil version of her own fiance!) and seemed more interested in everyone elses reaction to her impending death, instead of her own. The poor woman was a prop in her own life.

Honestly, they should have done Flashpoint for the crossover/100 Flash episode. I would prefer it if they celebrated the 100th episode in their own episode separate from the crossover (when Arrow did it, it was super awkward) but if they insist on doing it, Flashpoint could at least give the rest of the characters some interesting stuff to work with, and would have been suitably epic. More epic than what we got anyway. 

Of course, I think it might work if they did a more quiet, personal story as the crossover, like the murder mystery in Identity Crisis (but, you know, not stupid), but I assume they'll want to go bigger and bigger until they can go Crisis on Infinite Earths or something.  

[Featherhat]

4 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Wasnt Caity alluding to going back to black  before S2 had started up? I think they might have planned it but GB wasnt here for it. I still laugh at MG basically being like "we do what we want, arrow doesnt need a canary" and then GB being all "I want a Canary". I think Dinahs costume was originally meant for either Sara or Laurel before they changed their minds on storylines. 

I still want to know what MGs "arc" was that he had planned for Laurel/BS on Legends that he never got around to doing. Give it to me.

It seems someone somewhere decided Arrow needed a BC so they went about it in a very half assed way, "miraculously" finding someone with the same Canary powers as LL's necklace who's name was DD, but they haven't really developed her further  until now and what she has now isn't very good IMHO.

As for BS's "arc" on LOT, you might still get that if KC stays on the Flarrowverse past this season since I'm not sure they'll know what to do with her on Arrow, but I can't say I'd particularly look forward to it. I'm not sure where it would have fitted in last season though, since they didn't have a lot of spare episodes in the 2nd half and so much of Sara's arc was about LL's death and not killing Darhk prematurely to prevent it, but it would be interesting to know what they had in mind. 

I get why some people have issues with her being the Team Flash "leader" (although she barely gets that, usually just at the beginning of an episode) they could explore that a bit more. She doesn't need to be a genius and she's not doing what Felicity or Sara are doing but basically being an "administrator" of the team collating the info and organising it whilst everyone is doing their own specialty, more strategy than tactics. 

[ruby24]

3 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

If they do end up knocking up Iris, I dont think they will leave the baby..a baby for to long. They will either be kidnapped or grow at a rapid rate. But I dont think The Flash is mature enough yet to handle giving WestAllen children yet.

They could do something like this, isn't this what happened on Angel? 

But even if they didn't, having Cecile there is sort of a convenient way to have a relative offscreen taking care of the kids when necessary, especially since she's having her own, which will primarily be offscreen anyway.

[Primal Slayer]

2 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

They could do something like this, isn't this what happened on Angel? 

But even if they didn't, having Cecile there is sort of a convenient way to have a relative offscreen taking care of the kids when necessary, especially since she's having her own, which will primarily be offscreen anyway.

Yeah, Angels son got kidnapped and brought to a demon dimension where he turned into a emo teen. 

[Starfish35]

And then he came back and had an affair with Cordy, which.....ugh.  That's got to be on a "worst storylines ever" list somewhere.

[BkWurm1]

I think I'd find it weird to rush Barry and Iris having kids.  They haven't even been a couple for a year.  It's weird enough to make their future kid show up before they were married, it makes it seem like the writers don't know how to fill scenes between Barry and Iris just on their own.  

[Primal Slayer]

Like most things in Flarrow, they like to rush to storylines to get to certain charactes. I'm surprised they havent brought in Bart Allen yet, but they'll probably do that next season. 

17 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

As for BS's "arc" on LOT, you might still get that if KC stays on the Flarrowverse past this season since I'm not sure they'll know what to do with her on Arrow, but I can't say I'd particularly look forward to it. I'm not sure where it would have fitted in last season though, since they didn't have a lot of spare episodes in the 2nd half and so much of Sara's arc was about LL's death and not killing Darhk prematurely to prevent it, but it would be interesting to know what they had in mind. 

Of course I won't hold my breathe when it comes to MG and anything to do with a character named Laurel but 

[quarks]

10 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

And then he came back and had an affair with Cordy, which.....ugh.  That's got to be on a "worst storylines ever" list somewhere.

Even at the time, it was so bad that a good half of the production crew was popping up on locked Delphi forums to complain about it, and derailing other threads with "YOU THINK YOU HAVE PROBLEMS. THIS IS WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH!"

Let us all just keep our fingers crossed that Flash has no intentions of letting the Tornado Twins return as grownups to have sultry affairs with Caitlin and Cisco.

[scarynikki12]

Rapidly aging any Flash babies would  also result in angst about not getting to raise them and wouldn’t sit well with anyone wanting the show to be lighthearted. It’s a lose-lose. 

[tennisgurl]

If they want to do minimal time travel (or none at all) I can easily see them doing something with ARGUS as a threat against the hero’s and world at large. Really, it’s been set up so much over all the Earth 1 shows, it would be a waste if NOTHING came of it. With the dystopian ARGUS run future where metas and heroes are locked up and experimented on showing up on Legends (where Zari is from), and their increasingly sketchy behavior on Arrow and Flash, plus the lingering CADMUS story from Supergirl and the anti alien story, which could be tied in either literally or thematically, it’s seems like a logical direction. Maybe Lyla is taken out (but not killed by) an assasin and a more extreme faction takes over, and starts trying to round people up? It would affect a lot of people, and if it involves time travel to or from Zaris time, LoT could take point. 

Edited December 28, 2017 by tennisgurl

[Primal Slayer]

It wouldn't be that angsty, the show still has its dramatic moments. Iris and Barry would just be happy to have their kids back.