Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[BkWurm1]

I think Sara would enjoy meeting Black Widow.  

Hawkeye and Oliver is an obvious pairing but IMO not for the archery but because they both turned out to be such family men.  

(Most of my thoughts are based on the MCU before Civil War since so much was left up in the air still about allegiances and choices.)  

Oliver is the leader on the DCTV side so it would makes sense for him to bump into the main face of the MCU, Tony Stark.  By himself, I think Oliver would have trouble keeping up with Tony (only the technical stuff, not leaps of intuition, that he'd be on the same page or ahead of him) but as a couple, I think Felicity and Oliver would acquit themselves wonderfully.  And if you included Diggle and his connections to Lyla and ARGUS versus SHEILD, it could be really interesting.  

Diggle I see getting along really well with Captain America.  

Barry I have a hard time picturing interacting.  I don't know who would be sympathetic to his emo side.  I suppose Tony would have some sympathy post Civil War but I think he'd also be really furious that Barry messed with time after learning his lesson.  Thor would break Diggle's brain for awhile.  Felicity wouldn't be able to help but babble a bit which would make Oliver jealous in a cute way so I'm down for that.  Maybe Barry can hang with Antman or something.  

It's odd, Barry is one of the more friendly characters willing to make friends but I have a hard time thinking anyone that doesn't already know him would take him seriously. I just imagine him trying to play leader and it being as believable as it was in last years crossover.  Maybe they could do some kind of odd couple thing with him and Hulk.  Though Bruce would be far more interested in talking with Felicity.  Actually, I think Felicity would be the honey all the bees buzzed around.  And Tony wouldn't impress her that much since he's just a snarky version of Ray.  Though you know Tony would seem a bit flirty and again, Oliver wouldn't like that so again, I'm down for that, lol.  

Edited December 24, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Starfish35]

What about romantic pairings?  Any options you could see?

[BkWurm1]

Well, Sara and Black Widow.  I don't know if BW has any bi inclinations but if they are there, Sara could find them, lol.

I'm too set on Oliver and Felicity and Diggle and Lyla to break them up and no one but Iris would put up with Barry.  

So maybe one sided interest from the guys on the MCU's side in Felicity.  Superhero catnip and all.  

Did you have any thoughts?

There aren't enough women in the MCU for me to find a good match for Ray.  Though if Tony doesn't shape up I guess he'd be a step up emotional maturity wise for Pepper but would he be enough of a challenge for her?  I think he'd be that guy on paper just like he was for Felicity.  Still, now that I think about it, it would be fun to watch Tony's head explode over the pairing.  

Edited December 24, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Starfish35]

4 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

There aren't enough women in the MCU for me to find a good match for Ray. 

Lol ouch. :)

Maybe it's because I've read too much MCU fanfic, but I'd be surprised if Nat wasn't bi.  But she and Sara are just a little too much alike. 

I don't know.  I'm mainly trying to think up a good pairing for Steve, and since Peggy's gone, I'm coming up short with pairings.  Unless Stucky, but I go back and forth on that.

[BkWurm1]

I think Sara and Steve would actually work in the long run.  BW would just be a fling, lol.  

Steve has soo much heart and humanity and Sara I think would be drawn to that.  He also has so many conflicted emotions and I think she could help simplify his swirling thoughts, help him channel his pain, and have his back like no one before.  

Edited December 24, 2017 by BkWurm1

[way2interested]

Tbh I'm still dead set for a AoS/Arrowverse crossover. May meeting Diggle or some of the LoT crew, Oliver meeting Coulson, Mack being with Diggle on all of the crazy things they've seen, YoYo and Barry having some sort of race, FitzSimmons meeting the science characters, and of course Daisy and Felicity meeting.

[Starfish35]

3 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I think Sara and Steve would actually work in the long run.  BW would just be a fling, lol.  

Steve has soo much heart and humanity and Sara I think would be drawn to that.  He also has so many conflicted emotions and I think she could help simplify the swirling emotions, help him channel it and have his back like no one before.  

Wow you're my new favorite person. Lol. :D  I figured everyone would think I was crazy for even considering it. 

3 minutes ago, way2interested said:

and of course Daisy and Felicity meeting.

Aren't EBR and CB friends?  That would be cool.

[way2interested]

5 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Aren't EBR and CB friends?  That would be cool.

Ha, that's literally the reason I added "of course."

[BkWurm1]

She also 

6 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Wow you're my new favorite person. Lol. :D  I figured everyone would think I was crazy for even considering it

Lol.  It's not so crazy.  If Ray and Sara had ever shown the slightest interest, I would have gone there since I think Ray has a pureness about him that's similar to Cap's that would be good for Sara, but Cap is actually a better fit for Sara because he's suffered more profoundly than Ray.  Ray did lose his fiance' but compared to everyone else, he's gotten off easy. 

Steve lost his whole world with the time jump.  I think Sara can relate to him forever feeling like he doesn't really belong to the world he is living in.  After Sara's time in Nanda Parbat, I don't think she's ever felt a part of the regular world again.   But each have aspects of their personality that complements each other's strengths and weaknesses.  

Edited December 24, 2017 by BkWurm1

[BkWurm1]

I think Steve would help Sara forgive herself for the past some more while also understanding her need to be there helping to make things right still in the future. 

Also, given that he's a hundred year old virgin, it's good that Sara could happily be the aggressor in the relationship.  She'd rock his world. 

And think how great he'd be to take home to meet Daddy!

Edited December 24, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Starfish35]

Yeah I could see it working too. :)

I'm afraid Infinity War is going to break my heart by killing Steve off.  At this point, I'm actually going to be shocked if he lives.  

[Miss Dee]

I'm crossing fingers he just becomes pre-serum Steve Rogers again. And proves what makes him Captain America isn't the strength and muscles.

[scarynikki12]

I think Steve will die as well but there's always a chance he survives.  If they make a point to acknowledge 2018 as his 100th year then it will be a guarantee.  That he dies I mean.

[BkWurm1]

I would be surprised if he's the only one to die.  I'm not sure the next phase of the MCU is going to really pull me in.  It's the characters I'm attached to, not the universe.  

Edited December 24, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Starfish35]

Who else do you think will die?

[BkWurm1]

Really, anyone whose contract is going to expire, lol. 

So yeah, I worry about Stark. I think it would be hard to explain his absence even if he does officially retire from being Iron Man.   

[Starfish35]

If Tony dies (and I think he very well might), I think it will be in Avengers 4, not Infinity War.   Iron Man started the whole thing, and I keep seeing that quote that Avengers 4 will be a definite finale.  

And yeah, even if he retires to have his HEA with Pepper, it's hard to see how he wouldn't be back out in the middle of things the next time the world is in danger.

[statsgirl]

But he didn't just return them to the sto're in secret  -- Barry and Iris returned them publicly for store  credit.

[scarynikki12]

Without knowing about new contracts or extensions to existing ones, my short list is: Steve, Rhodey, Natasha, Bucky, Loki, Clint, and Vision. 

I go back and forth on Tony because I know RDJ loves playing the part, and he was used well in Homecoming so they could continue along that vein, but the MCU also brought in Wakanda.  And the tech coming out of that country surpasses what Tony can do.  There's also the coming introductions with the Guardians and Rocket alone surpasses Tony.  So Tony's no longer the big deal tech guy and can be killed off.  But he's entertaining and I can see Marvel wanting to use him in future Spiderman movies so that would keep him safe.

I think Loki is a for sure death.  He'll give the Tesseract to Thanos and Thanos will kill him. 

I think Natasha will die in the Wakanda battle.  Marvel's done a solid job with her characterization but the fact that they never bothered to give her a solo movie, even after the positive response in Avengers and Winter Soldier, tells me she has a planned end. 

I think they'll kill Clint because he's the most expendable. 

They show Thanos removing the stone from Vision's head in the trailer so I think the question is if he'll stay dead.  I like Bettany but I don't really care about Vision so I'll accept what happens.

I think Rhodey will die for Tony's reaction and to add to the body count.

I think Bucky will die to complete his redemption arc.

Steve may not stay dead but I do think he'll die.  There needs to be a decent sized body count of recognizable faces because Thanos is supposed to be the biggest threat they've faced and that threat gets diminished if the dead are made up of extras.  And we see Thanos entering the fight himself in the trailer so I think we'll get up close and personal deaths at his hands.  I don't think Thanos will kill Steve.  Thanos looks to be in the New York battle against Tony, Strange, and Peter while Steve is in Wakanda battling the Black Order.  If Steve dies I expect it will be in that battle.

I feel like Hulk and Thor will live for a couple reasons.  Hulk apparently can't die and doesn't look to be facing Thanos (who may be able to kill him with the fully charged gauntlet), while Thor seems to be with the Guardians in space and may not even get to Earth until the fourth Avengers.  Marvel also still doesn't have the rights for a solo Hulk movie so keeping him alive to appear around the MCU means they get to keep playing with him.  Thor planning to found New Asgard but the trailer makes it look like Thanos' ship destroys that plan so they may just keep him in space to play with the Guardians.

[BkWurm1]

7 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

But he didn't just return them to the store in secret  -- Barry and Iris returned them publicly for store credit.

 

I could almost buy them thinking they just had 40 people give them the same gift if they had a huge guest list but that they knew they ALL came from Mick is where it makes no figgin' sense to have only figured out anything fishy was happening after they secured thier store credit.  

Quote

I think Rhodey will die for Tony's reaction and to add to the body count.

I don't think Rhodey will die.  He almost died already in Civil War (in fact I thought he had) so we already saw Tony's reaction.  

[Hiveminder]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

I think Sara and Steve would actually work in the long run.  BW would just be a fling, lol.  

Steve has soo much heart and humanity and Sara I think would be drawn to that.  He also has so many conflicted emotions and I think she could help simplify his swirling thoughts, help him channel his pain, and have his back like no one before.  

I never knew I wanted this. 

[Starfish35]

19 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

Thor planning to found New Asgard but the trailer makes it look like Thanos' ship destroys that plan

Yeah I noticed that.  That makes me sad though. Thor sacrificed everything to save the last of his people, and if the trailer proves true, it was all for nothing. :(

Everything I can find out about RDJ recently says he's done after Avengers 4, but.....that may be a red herring.  They're being very closed mouthed about Avengers 4 - we don't even have a title yet.

I figured Bucky would take up the Captain America title after Steve's death, but Sam could do that as well I suppose.  I understand both did at different times in the comics.

Never occurred to me that Natasha would die...huh.

[Sakura12]

8 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I think Sara and Steve would actually work in the long run.  BW would just be a fling, lol.  

Steve has soo much heart and humanity and Sara I think would be drawn to that.  He also has so many conflicted emotions and I think she could help simplify his swirling thoughts, help him channel his pain, and have his back like no one before.  

I never even thought of them. Now I want Captain America to meet Captain Lance. 

[Primal Slayer]

I honestly dont see Marvel/Disney having the balls to kill off anymore then like 3 characters. Capt.America seems like a doozey unless Chris is willing to keep on going but he seems to be the most willing to move on.  So I can see him, Rhodey, Loki dying. 

[way2interested]

Thing is if they're going to do Secret Invasion or something like it they'll still need at least one or two of the characters to not die or be revealed to be Skrulls along with any deaths, and my money is on Rhodey being a Skrull.

[SmallScreenDiva]

9 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

What about romantic pairings?  Any options you could see?

I love Olicity but I sometimes cheat with Steve/Felicity fics so there's already that (plus I just want Chris E. and EBR to meet in real life and have a play date with their doggies) :P

An out there pairing — Diana Prince/Thor Odinson. They're both gods, immortal, Thor has a playfulness that I think will appeal to Diana. Both have known loss and sacrifice. 

I don't want anybody to die *cries* but I'm bracing myself for Tony because this started with him and the impact would be huge. I'm gonna riot if Steve dies, although I am bracing myself for it as well. I'm not sure that they would kill off both Tony and Steve. I'm thinking it's one or the other. 

Clint, Vision, Loki sound plausible. Loki needs to get his final comeuppance, he can't keep switching sides forever. I hope they don't kill Nat, I feel like she's sort of a cat with nine lives and will always land on her feet. I do wonder about Scarlet Witch; isn't her power (and her late brother's) from an Infinity stone? I wonder if there might be an impact there. I've always been worried over Rhodey but given he already almost died last time maybe they give him a break this time. 

[Hiveminder]

12 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

 

An out there pairing — Diana Prince/Thor Odinson. They're both gods, immortal, Thor has a playfulness that I think will appeal to Diana. Both have known loss and sacrifice. 

 

I feel like this is one of those great on paper relationships, kind of like Raylicity. They should work because they have so much in common, but maybe they have a little too much in common?

[SmallScreenDiva]

1 hour ago, Hiveminder said:

I feel like this is one of those great on paper relationships, kind of like Raylicity. They should work because they have so much in common, but maybe they have a little too much in common?

Ah, but see I'm one of the (very few) people who actually thought Raylicity were great on paper and could have been great in reality if the writers didn't introduce Ray as a jerk and their relationship wasn't meant to be temporary :) 

Diana and Thor do have a lot in common but it's the stuff that makes them at the core compatible, IMO. Oliver & Felicity may seem like opposites but at their core they are people who believe in the same things — they're trying to make the world a better place, they are loyal, trustworthy, both are sort of gray in terms of morality, etc. Same can be said of Diana and Thor — they are kind, fiercely loyal, they understand responsibility, etc. Diana can tend to take things a bit too seriously, Thor can draw her out of that. He's quite impulsive, she can help rein that instinct in. 

[tennisgurl]

I hope everyone has a safe and happy Beebo Day Eve! 

[Mellowyellow]

Oooh no they can't kill Clint! He's got like half a dozen kids!!!!!

Ray and BW would be interesting. I think he would be great for her and bring much needed sunshine into her life. He'd shock and amuse her at the same time. 

Agree with everything you said about Raylicity @SmallScreenDiva. If they wanted to write it as a permanent OTP they could have made it work beautifully.

Edited December 24, 2017 by Mellowyellow

[catrox14]

I'm rewatching the X Over tonight. It's just so much damn fun.  I love it.

[Miss Dee]

Happy Beebo Day, everyone!

[Trini]

10 Best Arrowverse Easter Eggs and References of 2017

[tennisgurl]

So, since I enjoy speculation during the off season (and I've had lots of long drives over the holidays so I've had a lot of time for my mind to wander) I started to speculate about different things they could do for next years big crisis crossover. I came up with a few ideas, but these are two that I think could work...

If they wanted to give Team Legends more to do (as they've been kind of on the back burner in the other crossovers) they could adapt a 90s story line where a hero from the future comes to the present, to warn that a superhero will became a supervillain that will kill the other heroes one day and take over the world. The actual story, from what I saw online, wasn't that great, but its a decent premise if you pull it around something else. Like, someone comes back from a dystopian future, knowing that a massive, tragic event will occur around this time, and one of the heroes involved will be so traumatized, that they turn evil and take over the world. Then you could have the drama of fighting/averting this great tragedy, as well as finding out who turns evil, and try to stop it from happening.

OR, and this is a more of a stretch and would take a TON of work and commitment, they could do a variation of Blackest Night. If they wanted to introduce the Lantern mythology, I think that would be a cool way to do it, and now that the Arrowverse has been around for awhile, they have enough characters, alive and dead, that could make it work. Long story short on the comic story, the Black Lanterns, evil death versions of Green lanterns, inhabit the bodies of dead heroes and villains and start killing people. And THEN they take over the bodies of people who died and come back to life. And basically try to spread death to the whole multiverse. It would be a huge undertaking, but I think it could be really great if done right. 

Any other ideas? 

[way2interested]

Just now, tennisgurl said:

Any other ideas? 

I still like the idea of time travel having a role in the crossover both in the flashy/costumey/settings/plot way and to be a catalyst for the emotional cruxes of the characters from the four shows. Like, the villain is just someone coming in and ruining history/the lives of the heroes/time itself/etc. and the heroes have to stop him/her/them, but then they're forced to go to different sections in time including dealing with traumatic pasts and going to uncertain futures. Then all of the characters (or the select group from each show that the crossover would choose to focus on) would have to answer questions about their futures based on elements on their pasts or kind of vice versa (Oliver's worried about the future so he'll go through moments in his past to strengthen his confidence going forward, Kara gets her momentary chance to completely change her entire life by changing her past, Barry worries about his present so he goes to the future again or something, Team Legends goes back to the future to see the bigger picture of what they're doing). Also incorporate elements of funny interactions (past characters interacting with present, future children interacting with different characters, etc.) and emotional elements (maybe Olicity are also having the kid discussion and Oliver gets to go back and meet himself as a child or another child version of a character, maybe Team Legends are having doubts about how much longer they'll be trying to fix time so they get to see what they've actually fixed instead of screwing up, maybe Kara wants to eventually give up Supergirl for Kara Danvers so she actually gets the opportunity to change something in her past, etc.) like the recent crossover.

[BkWurm1]

Time travel is problematic on a big scale because they have to either commit to a bunch of future events or explain it all away which makes it kind of pointless then.  

[way2interested]

Well if not that then I guess it would also be cool if they did a Tower of Babel like story to at least explain how Oliver got a kryptonite arrow.

[Sakura12]

Maybe they can show the future that Zari is from, where being a meta (and I guess a hero in general) is outlawed and Argus runs things like a police state. 

[Primal Slayer]

 They could adapt the episode of Superfriends where the LoD goes back to each of the JL past in an attempt to stop them from becoming the heroes they go on to become and they actually succeed. This could cause the Legends to leap through time. 

Of course they could always do COIE and start merging some Earths. 

Whichever event they decide to do, it should be a very bittersweet win for the heroes.

[Starfish35]

Honestly, my biggest wish is that it doesn't revolve around Oliver and/or Barry and their life issues.  That's been done and done and done.  Let's move on.  Have it on Supergirl's world, or have it revolve around the Legends and some sort of time travel issue, but let's give one of the other shows a chance to be front and center.  

Edited December 28, 2017 by Starfish35

[Trini]

I'd like to see the next crossover set on Supergirl's earth also. (Maybe involving Legion of Superheroes, if they don't exhaust that in this season of Supergirl.) They always want to go 'bigger', so I think time travel might be it -- if they don't want to do yet another alternate earth story.

Or they could always scale down the crossover (which I doubt CW/WB would do at this point), and have one or two characters from each show visit another show and with their unique skills, defeat a villain.

[Primal Slayer]

40 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Honestly, my biggest wish is that it doesn't revolve around Oliver and/or Barry and their life issues.  That's been done and done and done.  Let's move on.  Have it on Supergirl's world, or have it revolve around the Legends and some sort of time travel issue, but let's give one of the other shows a chance to be front and center.  

You and me both!

[Primal Slayer]

7 minutes ago, Trini said:

I'd like to see the next crossover set on Supergirl's earth also. (Maybe involving Legion of Superheroes, if they don't exhaust that in this season of Supergirl.) They always want to go 'bigger', so I think time travel might be it -- if they don't want to do yet another alternate earth story.

Or they could always scale down the crossover (which I doubt CW/WB would do at this point), and have one or two characters from each show visit another show and with their unique skills, defeat a villain.

Reminds me of JLU "Once and Future Thing" where WW/Bats/GL travel through time and finally end up in the future for the climax. W/WW fading away since she's dead in the future.

Id be down for scaling bsck except they'd just do the usual pairings .

[Delphi]

9 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Reminds me of JLU "Once and Future Thing" where WW/Bats/GL travel through time and finally end up in the future for the climax. W/WW fading away since she's dead in the future.

Id be down for scaling bsck except they'd just do the usual pairings .

I'd love old Ollie meeting present Ollie,  if only for the hilarity of him saying "I can't believe i was ever that green."

[ruby24]

Setting it on Supergirl's earth is definitely a good idea, simply because that's one thing they haven't done yet. 

I also hope they consider moving it to a different part of the season, like the return after the winter break. I know they've thought of that already, it's probably a good idea.

[JJ928]

I would like if they did the crossover on a different earth, except without our E1 heroes. Just make the crossovers a special event, kinda like this year, but truly a departure from the shows. So nothing in the eps factor or affect the shows storylines.

As much as I'd love to have focus on people other than Barry & Oliver, I don't see it happening. These writers really do write like Oliver is Batman and Barry Superman, except they don't give Kara that WW focus because, you know, she has lady parts. Next year the xover should fall during Flash's 100th, so I am expecting a mess much like last seasons xover, with them trying cram everything in.

 

Hope you guys had a nice holiday.

[ruby24]

The fact that the next crossover falls on The Flash's 100th is why I hope they consider moving it. That was a very awkward setup with Arrow's 100th, because of course they had to make the episode primarily about that show and its history. The same thing will have to be done with The Flash, but they just had everyone come to Central City for an event involving Flash characters this year, so I doubt they will do that again.

The result will be a standalone Flash episode in the middle of the crossover event, like what happened with Arrow, or they just ignore it and don't pay tribute to Flash's 100th in any significant way (which I really don't see happening).

[JJ928]

Yeah, I have zero hopes of them moving it tbh. For some reason the network seems to really love the odd placement of the crossovers being on the 8th episode. So my guess is whatever they do, something will happen to Barry, he hits his head, is drugged, etc... and falls into a dreamworld a la Arrow alien brainwashing lol. I don't expect too much of a departure from Berlanti & company. But I can't see them ignoring the 100th episode at all... this is another time where flashpoint for the crossovers would have been great but they squandered that.

[Primal Slayer]

If anything, some shows celebrate the big 100 on a different episode lol. If they don't move it, The Flash should just use the episode before or after to do the big celebration. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

27 minutes ago, JJ928 said:

These writers really do write like Oliver is Batman and Barry Superman, except they don't give Kara that WW focus because, you know, she has lady parts.

This crossover made me realize the Arrowverse doesn't know what to do with Kara/SG. IMO, she really didn't have a story during Crisis, that was more Alex's. Them making her and Oliver evil seemed to be more for shock value and so they could give her something to do because without evil Kara there was really nothing for her other than being a supporting character in Alex's arc. 

I also found it interesting that during the crossover, emotional stories were told for Arrow, Supergirl and Legend characters but nothing for The Flash, if you think about it. Iris and Barry want to get married — and then they got married, that was pretty much the be all and end all of their arc. 

As for next year's crossover, I don't care what they do as long as they put Oliver AND Felicity front and center again. I find I have no interest if it's just Oliver, like last year's crossover (which I still think is one of the worst Arrow episodes ever).