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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes


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Supergirl 3x05 episode description

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“Damage” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-14, V) (HDTV)

MORGAN EDGE SETS HIS SIGHTS ON LENA — When multiple children get sick from lead poisoning, Morgan Edge (guest star Adrian Pasdar) points the finger at Lena (Katie McGrath) and blames her creation of the lead bomb she made to save National City from the Daxamites. While Lena knows she never intended any harm, she fears there may have been a flaw in her design, leaving her responsible. Kara (Melissa Benoist) teams up with Samantha (Odette Annable) to clear Lena’s name, but it turns out to be harder than they thought. Meanwhile, Alex (Chyler Leigh) and Maggie (guest star Floriana Lima) make a crucial decision about the future of their relationship. Kevin Smith directed the episode written by Eric Carrasco & Cindy Lichtman (#305). Original airdate 11/6/2017. 

Flash 4x05 episode description

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“Girls Night Out” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-14, DLV) (HDTV)

KATEE SACKHOFF (“BATTLESTAR GALACTICA”) AND EMILY BETT RICKARDS (“ARROW”) GUEST STAR — Having received an ominous threat from her old boss, Amunet (guest star Katee Sackhoff), Caitlin (Danielle Panabaker) fears that her past time as Killer Frost may be back to haunt her. Felicity (guest star Emily Bett Rickards) comes to Central City to help the girls celebrate Iris’s (Candice Patton) bachelorette party, while Cisco (Carlos Valdes), Joe (Jesse L. Martin) and the guys take Barry out for a night on the town. Laura Belsey directed the episode written by Lauren Certo & Kristen Kim (#405). Original airdate 11/7/2017.

LOT 3x05 episode description

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“Return of the Mack” — (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET) (TV-14, DLV) (HDTV)

HELPING ONE OF THEIR OWN — When Nate (Nick Zano) thinks he has found a pattern to the anachronisms, it leads the Legends to London in 1897 to hunt down a time-traveling vampire.  When they arrive in London, they run into Rip (guest star Arthur Darvill), but not everyone welcomes him back so quickly, leaving Sara (Caity Lotz) to make a tough choice in the end.  Amaya (Maisie Richardson-Sellers) tries to connect with Zari (Tala Ashe), but she is still struggling with being part of the team.  Meanwhile, Stein (Victor Garber) discovers what Ray (Brandon Routh) and Jax (Franz Drameh) are up to and is not entirely pleased. Dominic Purcell also stars.  Alexandra La Roche directed the episode written by Grainne Godfree & Morgan Faust (#305).  Original airdate 11/07/2017.

Arrow 6x05 episode description

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“Deathstroke Returns” — (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET) (TV-14, LV) (HDTV)

Bennett) returns and asks Oliver (Stephen Amell) for help in tracking down his son. When they learn Joe (guest star William Franklyn-Miller) has been taken hostage by mercenaries, their mission to save him gets complicated by a terrible revelation that could shatter Slade’s hopes of reunion forever. Meanwhile, Vigilante reappears in Star City. Joel Novoa directed the episode written by Ben Sokolowski & Spiro Skentzos (#605).  Original airdate 11/9/2017.

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45 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

KATEE SACKHOFF (“BATTLESTAR GALACTICA”) AND EMILY BETT RICKARDS (“ARROW”) GUEST STAR

Starbuck! Two of the ladies closest to my heart! Love that the other descriptions had some sort of a summary but Flash is going "look at our guest stars!" :)

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Kevin Smith Wants To Direct Arrow, But Says He Won’t Be Allowed To

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In a recent interview with ScreenRant, the director revealed that despite returning to direct multiple episodes of both The Flash and Supergirl, he doesn’t believe he’ll ever be able to helm an episode of Arrow. Smith recalled the time he approached Arrow executive producer Marc Guggenheim, explaining that fans have been eager to see him direct an episode of the Emerald Archer. However, Guggenheim said that DC’s Legends of Tomorrow would be a better fit for the director.

“I talked to him once after a panel at the Paley Center, I was the moderator for the Paley Center CW panel at the Hollywood and Highland complex. And so afterwards, I was talking to Marc, and I was like, ‘Hey man, fans keep saying they want me to direct an episode of [Arrow], I would love that, I wrote Green Arrow.’ He knows that. And he goes, ‘Yeah, you know, Arrow is very dark. Legends [of Tomorrow] would be good for you,'” he said with a laugh. “So, I don’t think they’re ever gonna let me near Arrow, which is totally fine.”

http://www.cbr.com/kevin-smith-arrow-direct-wont-be-allowed/?utm_source=CBR-TW&utm_medium=Social-Distribution&utm_campaign=CBR-TW&view=list

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Wow, that's a massive ego Kevin Smith has.

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While Lena knows she never intended any harm, she fears there may have been a flaw in her design, leaving her responsible

So Lena is Oliver Queen now?

11 hours ago, Cleanqueen said:

Just watched the Flash, there were a lot of parts I liked but I didn't like how they handled the couples therapy part. I was taken aback by Iris saying the main reason she was mad was at Barry was that he left her to go to Speed Force before discussing it with her...when was he supposed to discuss it with her and what was she supposed to say. I wanted her to actually voice her concerns about what it meant to be almost killed by an evil version of your fiancee or all the trauma they've been through since flashpoint. But nope, all we got was "You're not the Flash, We are" and "we're barry and iris, we're the gold standard". I dont understand how we're supposed to believe once session solved their issues and they get married in 4 episodes. he fight scenes?

They do say that Arrow is the only one grounded in reality.

I get why Iris deep revelation was about Barry joining the Speed Force without talking to her rather than Evil Version of Barry trying to kill her.  This Barry isn't responsible for EvilBarry but he is responsible for for not treating Iris like the partner he made her when he proposed.

10 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

During therapy when Iris yelled at Barry saying she was mad at him for leaving her. All I could think was girl he left you multiple times but you don't remember because he erased the timeline.

That's your golden standard couple. 

Did they really say "golden standard"?  Because it's gold standard and that's not even going to be a thing much longer as the world's monetary needs change.  Typical Flash.

Speaking of the therapy sessions with the therapist whose name was Sherry Finkel, I laughed when I heard an interview this morning with psychologist Eli Finkel on his book The All-or-Nothing Marriage: How the Best Marriages Work.  Are they related?

22 hours ago, tofutan said:

So far the ratings don't back you up. The ratings took a dip in season 2 when then toned down Mon-El's screentime and they are even lower now. I'm not saying that the ratings are down because of him being on less, nor do I think they will go up when he returns. I say people need a red thread. 

[snip]

The way Supergirl does it is just not compelling writing. And all those nice little scenes between characters you like are pointless if there is no larger drive behind it.

Sidenote: this is why I will forever disagree on the Guardian arc. In that story, James actually had agency. He had a goal (wanting to break out of his role) and he did something about it. He formed relationships in the process. He suffered setbacks. He got over them. 

What's his agency in season 3 so far? He got walked over and yelled at by Kara and took it without repercussions/emotional payoff. He got walked over by Lena and politely took it. Where is his agency? Where is his proactiveness? To me a James who goes after what he wants is 10 times more interesting than a James who is supposed to be powerful on paper, but within the context of the story is just a pleasant doormat. Because agency is what makes characters interesting and gives them power in a story.

 

Mon El never stepped into the background on Supergirl.  Even the season's Big Bad and the big finale were related to him.  From the moment Mon El arrived in the city (and broke up Kara and James before they started), he was the major character of the season, surpassing Supergirl herself.

Stephen Amell relates a story of a conversation he had with David Nutter, the director of the Arrow and Flash pilots among other shows.  Nutter asked SA what he thought was the most important scene of the pilot. SA replied, the one where Oliver and Tommy are kidnapped and Oliver kills the kidnappers.  Nutter said 'no', it's the scene where the family gets together for dinner because if the audience doesn't care about the characters, none of the action scenes matter.

James may have found a purpose in the Guardian arc but most people who watched the show said it proved that James really was pointless and needs to go.  He got dissed by Kara and even episodes where he would have been useful the show forgot he existed except when it was useful for a C story.

This season he's been in a meeting of the city's bigwigs and he's confronted Lena about ignoring him in his workplace.  At least he's finally in the B story again.

The second episode had a villain who was defeated as the A story but broke open Kara's feelings about Mon El, Lena at Catco and in conflict with Kara and James as the B plot, and a set-up for the season's big bad as the C plot.  Not bad plotting overall.

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52 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I like how Kevin conveniently forgets to mention that he also has beef with Marc's wife which is probably another reason they won't let him touch Arrow. 

I think maybe it doesn’t matter at this point since MG told him he’d be a better fit on Legends. So, clearly it’s not an issue anymore (unless KS is lying about that offer). 

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27 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I think maybe it doesn’t matter at this point since MG told him he’d be a better fit on Legends. So, clearly it’s not an issue anymore (unless KS is lying about that offer). 

He's either lying or Marc was taking the piss or mickey out of him but I'd be very surprised if he actually ends up directing Legends. Even Marc's answer seems passive aggressive. 

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I was just reading the comment section of that DC article calling WestAllen the bestest couple of DCTV and had to laugh that the comic fans were all 'no they're not!'. And there were a lot of comments about how Iris is ruining Barry WestAllens the reason The Flash sucks and various other complaints similar to those thrown at Olicity I guess being comic canon doesn't make you anymore popular with that crowd hey? 

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That schedule seems wonky. If I understand this, he has one more crossover day tomorrow then he shoots a super condensed ep9 and then goes back to crossover filming for additional scenes? I wonder if it’s pickups.

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Go to articles to see pics...

DC CROSSOVER: DC Mashup With Dozen Heroes from ARROW, THE FLASH, LEGENDS OF TOMORROW & SUPERGIRL in Vancouver
By Susan Gittins October 18, 2017  
http://hollywoodnorth.buzz/2017/10/dc-crossover-dc-mashup-with-dozen-heroes-from-arrow-the-flash-legends-of-tomorrow-supergirl-in-vancouver.html

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What a feat of scheduling by this year’s Arrow, The Flash, Legends of Tomorrow and Supergirl crossover.  A dozen cast gathered on set under Vancouver’s Granville Bridge on Tuesday: Arrow’s Stephen Amell (the Green Arrow), Echo Kellum (Mr. Terrific), Rick Gonzalez (Wild Dog), Juliana Harkavy (Black Canary). The Flash’s Grant Gustin (the Flash), Legends of Tomorrow’s Caity Lotz (the White Canary), Brandon Routh (the ATOM), Wentworth Miller (Captain Cold), Dominic Purcell (Mick Rory), Nick Zano (Citizen Steel), Maisie Richardson-Sellers (Vixen), Tala Ashe (Zari). And that’s not counting the cast playing Earth X villains.

But where were Supergirl and her Earth-X counterpart? Up in the sky?

Supergirl shoots scenes for the 2017 Arrowverse Crossover episode with Melissa Benoist, Chyler Leigh and Caity Lotz
Canadagraphs   10/18/2017
http://canadagraphs.weebly.com/supergirl-blogs/supergirl-shoots-scenes-for-the-2017-arrowverse-crossover-episode-with-melissa-benoist-chyler-leigh-and-caity-lotz

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The 2017 Arrowverse crossover episodes, all titled "Crisis On Earth X" have been filming through most of October in Vancouver, and last week I caught up with the Supergirl crew shooting part of their segment of the 4 episode event.

On this day, they shot a variety of scenes. In the morning they shot a scene on a roof with a Earth X character named "Overgirl" that I missed due to their scheduling and other commitments I had.

When I got there in the early afternoon they were prepping to shoot a scene out in front of the the St. Andrews Wesley Church. The scene sees Melissa Benoist as Kara Danvers and Chyler Leigh as Alex Danvers having a chat when Legends Of Tomorrow star Caity Lotz as Sara Lance arrives, says a few words to Alex, before going into the church, leaving Kara to tease & grill Alex about the clear flirtatious conversation the pair seemingly had. Its been strongly rumoured the 2 characters may be hooking up in the episode after the very publicly posted departure of Floriana Lima as Maggie Sawyer leaves Alex's love life with a vacancy, much to the growing fanbase of fans who like Maggie & Alex together.

After they shot this scene, all 3 actresses wrapped their day there, and left, making way for the production to prepare for their final scenes of the day, on the other side of the church that didnt even have any Supergirl cast in it, as The Flash and Arrow stars were on hand for the shoot,

Edited by tv echo
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10 minutes ago, Chaser said:

That schedule seems wonky. If I understand this, he has one more crossover day tomorrow then he shoots a super condensed ep9 and then goes back to crossover filming for additional scenes? I wonder if it’s pickups.

They shouldn't be doing pickups yet, unless they've already caught a problem from the daillies, which is possible. Any pickup scenes would start filming next week.

My guess is that this was built into the schedule from the beginning - along with the crossover nightmares, Supergirl and Arrow both have under-18 actors in recurring roles this season, who can only film limited hours per week, and who presumably are doing something in the winter finale episodes, since those are always Christmas/family themed.  And some of the regulars are also restricted to limited filming hours per week. So I suspect they planned to have at least Amell, Gustin, and Benoist filming various crossover scenes after the "official" ending of the crossover filming.

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11 minutes ago, Chaser said:

That schedule seems wonky. If I understand this, he has one more crossover day tomorrow then he shoots a super condensed ep9 and then goes back to crossover filming for additional scenes? I wonder if it’s pickups.

Isn't that how the crossover schedule already works or how they were planning it? Although I'm thinking it might just be reshoots (or maybe pickups) that fit in easier later, and it's not like it's completely throw things off, right? Like how they filmed that flashforward in 410 during 414.

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6 minutes ago, quarks said:

They shouldn't be doing pickups yet, unless they've already caught a problem from the daillies, which is possible. Any pickup scenes would start filming next week.

My guess is that this was built into the schedule from the beginning - along with the crossover nightmares, Supergirl and Arrow both have under-18 actors in recurring roles this season, who can only film limited hours per week, and who presumably are doing something in the winter finale episodes, since those are always Christmas/family themed.  And some of the regulars are also restricted to limited filming hours per week. So I suspect they planned to have at least Amell, Gustin, and Benoist filming various crossover scenes after the "official" ending of the crossover filming.

No wonder SA said his crossover is basically to November.

Maybe you know the answer to another question. KC may have filmed for 6x02 but the screeners say she wasn’t in the episode. If she has an episode count, would that still count as one of her episodes?

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19 minutes ago, tv echo said:
 

Whenever all the heroes stand in a line like that it just reminds me of Arrow s4 when they used to go out into the field and I thought they were about to start Vogue-ing down a catwalk. ?

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16 minutes ago, Chaser said:

No wonder SA said his crossover is basically to November.

Maybe you know the answer to another question. KC may have filmed for 6x02 but the screeners say she wasn’t in the episode. If she has an episode count, would that still count as one of her episodes?

Yep.

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I quoted Arrow-related portions of this interview in the Starling City Times thread, but here's what James Bamford had to say about directing an episode of Supergirl last season...

Arrow: James Bamford on how stunt work prepared him for directing
by Amy Woolsey  Oct. 18, 2017
https://culturess.com/2017/10/18/arrow-james-bamford-stunt-work-prepared-directing/

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In addition to Arrow, you directed one episode of Supergirl, last season’s “Survivors.” How did working on Supergirl differ from working on Arrow?
The circumstances in which I was brought [on] were not what you’d expect. There was another director involved in the onset of production of that episode. This director had some prior engagements to deal with, and Supergirl required a new director to step in to help complete the episode.

When I was approached by Andrew Kreisberg to shoot the episode, I asked how long there was left in the prep process. As most everyone knows in this business, prep is everything, especially on a show with the scale of Supergirl. I was told that prep was over, and could I start tomorrow morning, as they were already three days into shooting in the 10-day schedule. It was an honor to be asked, so I accepted the task, and there I was on the set the next day. I spent many hours with the previous director going over his plans and discussing what I might do differently and what I would do to try and maintain his original vision as well. I was brought to set, met the cast, immediately loved them, and was off to the races.

Unlike a regular episode, I had to leave immediately on completion, head over to Legends of Tomorrow and shoot a large sequence for the opening two episodes of last season, then proceed back to Arrow, where I commenced my prep for the 100th episode — the crossover of season 5. Although my Supergirl experience was brief, the cast left a feeling with me I carry this day. Every time I’m brought on to the set for second unit shots to direct, or they come over to Arrow, it’s like we’ve known each other for a lifetime.

Edited by tv echo
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3 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Ever since Arrow moved to Thursdays, I have had literally nothing to watch on Wednesday nights. I am just not interested in any of the TV shows airing on Wednesdays now.

Same, I use Wednesday to catch up on the other shows I missed that aired Monday/Tuesday.

 

Also I am wondering if the drop in Riverdale had something to do with ppl mistakenly watching it last week thinking Arrow was on.

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I watched Riverdale's first season, then after the mid-season break I completely forgot about it and never tuned back in to finish it.  I'm also guessing all the buzz during the summer caused people to check it out and realized it's just another teen soap. 

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Spoiler Room: Scoop on The Originals, Once Upon a Time, Supernatural, and more
NATALIE ABRAMS  OCTOBER 19, 2017 
http://ew.com/tv/2017/10/19/spoiler-room-originals-ouat-supernatural/

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What’s next for Wally this season on The Flash, especially now that Barry is back? — Emerson
That’s the big question! “Wally is going on his own journey, where he’s kind of wondering what exactly his purpose is,” Grant Gustin teases. “He had always wanted to be a little bit more than he was. I don’t think he loved the idea of being Kid Flash, and I think he thought it was his time, and now Barry’s back and he doesn’t really know how he fits.”
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Love that Kara, Lena and Sam are friends on Supergirl, but will Lena find herself stuck between the other two once Reign comes out? — Kelsey
That’s a tricky question because that would mean Lena would know that Kara is Supergirl — and that’s not happening anytime soon. “It would stand to reason that she might be stuck in the middle of Reign and Supergirl and Samantha and Supergirl,” Katie McGrath says. “But I don’t know if she’ll ever be stuck in the middle of Kara and Samantha, because she still is never going to know.”

Edited by tv echo
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Thor! - despite the mixed review, I still want to see this movie (warning: rest of article includes spoilers) - out Nov. 3...

Thor: Ragnarok is the funniest Marvel movie yet (just beware of its story)
CHRIS NASHAWATY  OCTOBER 19, 2017 
http://ew.com/movies/2017/10/19/thor-ragnarok-review/

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... Somewhere, hovering just below the very top shelf, where Robert Downey Jr.’s Iron Man and Chris Evans’ Captain America have seemed to establish themselves as dueling straw-that-stirs-the-drink counterweights, resides Chris Hemsworth’s Thor. He has enough hammer-of-the-gods might and charisma to nab his own standalone franchise, but so far the Thor films have felt more like placeholders on the release calendar than real capital-E Events. They’re solid enough to keep fans placated and engaged until the heavy hitters return. He’s what you might call “blockbuster adjacent.”

This isn’t Hemsworth’s fault. Not exactly. Beneath those long buttery locks and somewhere behind those impossibly sculpted Asgardian abs and biceps, there’s always been a gifted comedian with crack timing trying to bust out. He can’t help that he looks the way he does. Plus, it’s hard to get a word in edgewise when Tony Stark is firing off quippy one-liners. Thankfully, the newest — and unquestionably funniest — big-screen Marvel adventure, Thor: Ragnarok, seems hellbent on finally unleashing Hemsworth’s real secret weapon: his humor. With the exception of Deadpool and the Guardians of the Galaxy films, Ragnarok may be the only Marvel-hero movie that feels like it’s first and foremost a comedy. And on those terms — and those terms only — it’s a triumph.
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There’s a lot more to the bloated story, but honestly, none of it is very interesting. In fact, it’s endless. You don’t care what’s happening or what’s going to happen next. We’re just led from place to place for a hash of foggy reasons that no one will ever remember 10 minutes after leaving the theater. But that’s not really the point of this movie. Ragnarok is basically a Joke Delivery System — and on that score, it works. The movie is fun. So to recap: Taika Waititi was mostly the right director for the job. Chris Hemsworth is hilarious. Tessa Thompson is going to be a star. And while Ragnarok’s story is an aimless mess, you won’t stop laughing. In other words, it’s a… B

Edited by tv echo
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DIRECTV NOW Adds The CW to Its On-Demand Library
Written by Tyler Abbott  October 19, 2017
https://www.cutcabletoday.com/directv-now-adds-cw-demand-library/

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AT&T confirms there’s good news for DIRECTV NOW subscribers—shows from The CW network are now available for on-demand streaming.

Some notable shows hitting DIRECTV NOW on demand include Supergirl, The Flash, and The Arrow. Granted, there are regional restrictions to The CW live streams, so many fans still can’t stream their favorite CW shows live with DIRECTV NOW. However, they will be able to catch up shortly after the show airs with on-demand access.

Edited by tv echo
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I'd be down with seeing a young Oliver Queen show up on Gotham...

COULD BATMAN EVER SHOW UP ON ARROW?
POSTED BY BLAIR MARNELL ON OCTOBER 19, 2017
http://nerdist.com/arrow-bruce-wayne-implications/

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Therein lies the biggest obstacle in the way of a Green Arrow and Batman team-up. Fox has the TV rights to those characters, and a real crossover may not be possible until Gotham has come to a conclusion. Arrow and Gotham also take place in very different worlds that are clearly not in continuity with each other. It may be too much trouble to go for a full crossover story between the two shows, but we do have an alternate solution in mind. If Fox consents to let Batman make a guest spot on Arrow, then The CW should let Gotham introduce a younger Oliver Queen for a reciprocal appearance. We’d call that a win-win!

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Another week...my ranking of the Arrowverse and their 2nd episodes;

1. Supergirl

2. The Flash

3. Arrow

4. LoT

Supergirl and Flash were really enjoyable and I had next to no complaints. Arrow was ok and Legends just downright sucked for the most part.

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Ask Ausiello: Spoilers on The X-Files, The Walking Dead, The Flash, Once, Lucifer, New Girl, Big Bang and More
By Michael Ausiello / October 19 2017
http://tvline.com/2017/10/19/the-x-files-william-season-11-spoilers-mulder-scully-son/

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Question: Please tell me Lena is going to find out Kara is Supergirl. She’s the only one who doesn’t know at this point! –Charlie
Ausiello: Sorry, Charlie, but it sounds like Lena is staying in the dark — and that’s just the way actress Katie McGrath wants it. “I think it’s important for Kara to have someone she doesn’t have to be Supergirl with,” McGrath says. “If Lena knew the truth, she’d always be Supergirl. And she needs to be Kara. That’s what this whole season is about, her struggling with her humanity. She has to be solely that person for somebody, and if that person has to be me, it makes me feel special.”
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Question: In past Arrow seasons, flashbacks for Diggle have been centered on his time in Afghanistan. Will we get to see flashbacks for him of a more personal nature in Season 6? –Trish
Ausiello: With Oliver’s island odyssey now fully chronicled, “We are going to do character-centered flashbacks,” co-showrunner Marc Guggenheim reports, “and we’re very cognizant of the fact that we’ve never done a non-military flashback for Diggle. It’s something we talk about a lot but we have to marry it to the right story,” and such an opportunity has not yet come along. In the meantime, the EP promises “some really cool Slade Wilson flashbacks that I’m really excited about.”
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Question: Any hints about how Harry Wells will rejoin Team Flash? —Miss Ellys
Ausiello: Harry shows up on our Earth this coming Tuesday bearing some bad news. And despite getting a very chilly welcome as a result, he thrusts himself into Team Flash’s latest case, eventually helping uncover a (literally) big clue in the brand-new metahumans mystery.

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Ratings: Gotham Dips to New Lows
By Matt Webb Mitovich / October 20 2017, 8:23 AM PDT
http://tvline.com/2017/10/20/gotham-ratings-season-4-episode-5/

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Fox’s Gotham this Thursday drew 2.71 million total viewers and a 0.8 demo rating, ticking down on both counts to mark new series lows.

Over on The CW, Arrow (1.5 mil/0.6) held steady versus its Thursday debut. Leading into that, Supernatural (1.9 mil/0.6) dipped a bit from its premiere.

Edited by tv echo
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That's too bad about Gotham's ratings. This season has been really good so far. I'm loving seeing Baby Batman Begins we are seeing him make mistakes and learn from them. Their Ra's was (is) so much better than Arrow's. He was creepy and scary and actually seemed like a threat. Which is why I don't think he's dead, dead. And they brought in Solomon Grundy complete with the song. 

There is no Canary vs Canary fight. I'm beginning to wonder if people understand that another Earth version is a different person. Most of these articles act like Earth 2 Laurel is is a former friend or former Canary, when she was neither. 

As for Sara and Ava, nope. I think these writers need to stay away from writing romance and just see what happens naturally with the characters. None of their forced romances have worked for me. 

Edited by Sakura12
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