Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Primal Slayer]

Lol looks like my original thought came true! 

[tofutan]

10 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Mon El is eating Supergirl and I don't mean in the good way. Bleh

I'm sure Mon-El does both. (sorry, it had to be said) 

[JJ928]

You just gotta laugh at this point. This is why I thought any couple getting married in the crossover was a mistake, too much going on. Sigh, I wish they’d each get their own moments on their own shows, but I can see how EPs thought killing two birds with one stone is brilliant. At least, as stated above, we got a couple engagements, an engagement party, and fake wedding with real vows. But I still would’ve like a real but small wedding. I’m sure wa fans would prefer that too over sharing their moment. 

[Cleanqueen]

I can see both shows having a celebration in their mid season finales...xmas and both couples are married and maybe have a small reception with their friends and families that carries over from the crossover.

[way2interested]

1 minute ago, Cleanqueen said:

I can see both shows having a celebration in their mid season finales...xmas and both couples are married and maybe have a small reception with their friends and families that carries over from the crossover.

Until something happens to either one of them in their mid-season finales DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUN.

[Primal Slayer]

So now the question is: is Thea in the crossover. 

[Cleanqueen]

4 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Until something happens to either one of them in their mid-season finales DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUN.

it wouldnt be DCTV if it didn't.  lol

[Featherhat]

3 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Until something happens to either one of them in their mid-season finales DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUN.

Yup one of both newlywed couples is cliffhangered in the MSF bonus if a flashforward to a grave/death/funeral is shown.

[way2interested]

7 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Yup one of both newlywed couples is cliffhangered in the MSF bonus if a flashforward to a grave/death/funeral is shown.

Nah, both shows already did that, so I'm going with cliffhanging in different ways this time around (crack theories galore, but want to save them for when I know at least SOMETHING about what's happening in these seasons).

Edited September 26, 2017 by way2interested

[Morrigan2575]

 

I don't think this necessarily means They all take place in The Flash episode.

[ruby24]

I assume Stein's funeral is in Central City, so that's probably where the crossover is ending.

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

I can see them having a ceremony on a cliff and then scattering Stein's ashes over the water.  Or a mountain top close to the stars.  Poor Lily and Mrs. Stein who don't get to say good bye.

I can see something like that, I guess. Some sort of outdoor area, unless she's being facetious and they all get married in the cemetery. 

[Featherhat]

5 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Nah, both shows already did that, so I'm going with cliffhanging in different ways this time around (crack theories galore, but want to save them for when I know at least SOMETHING about what's happening in these seasons).

Fair enough, you're right but they are an environmentally conscious 'Verse they recycle a lot. ;) Probably better to wait until at least the first episodes but SO much has happened to both that I can't think of anything new unless there's a GOT crossover and dragons are involved.

[quarks]

Well, now I'm going to be completely crushed if these weddings don't feature Iris and Felicity getting flown into the ceremony by dragons.

[way2interested]

40 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Probably better to wait until at least the first episodes but SO much has happened to both that I can't think of anything new unless there's a GOT crossover and dragons are involved.

There's still the "someone gets kidnapped" cliffhanger trope to do or even the "random person shows up" thing they could do for Flash (like an appearance of Bart or something), but that's more getting into fanfic territory than actual spec at this point, but I think they could do something before getting desperate and throwing fantasy into it XD.

4 minutes ago, quarks said:

Well, now I'm going to be completely crushed if these weddings don't feature Iris and Felicity getting flown into the ceremony by dragons.

LoT could give them one of those dinosaurs!

[ruby24]

I think we can see what will happen now. The WA wedding will be crashed in the first episode, then all the action, Stein dies, and at the end of his funeral the two couples do a spur-of-the-moment ceremony on the spot in their funeral attire, kind of a life-is-short kind of thing.

I will still feel totally robbed of the big WA wedding after all this build-up for it. It's unfair.

[Featherhat]

11 minutes ago, way2interested said:

There's still the "someone gets kidnapped" cliffhanger trope to do or even the "random person shows up" thing they could do for Flash (like an appearance of Bart or something), but that's more getting into fanfic territory than actual spec at this point, but I think they could do something before getting desperate and throwing fantasy into it XD.

LoT could give them one of those dinosaurs!

I was thinking kidnapping but William's had kidnapping as his only storylines and Thea was regularly kidnapped for a while. Has Iris been kidnapped much recently? random person shows up might be likely but for Arrow we've had secret kid (which hung over the engagement MSF) and secret brother. I would say Island stuff comes back to haunt Oliver but we're done with the 5 years away and that's likely to be more in the Slade episodes.

I vote LOT loans Arrow some dinosaurs, it would make DD and Constantine seem like small potatoes, though that wouldn't even be unusual on The Flash.

On another topic I want the Legends to mention/brag that they've already fought Nazi's in the crossover and remember that Amaya is from 1942.

Quote

I will still feel totally robbed of the big WA wedding after all this build-up for it. It's unfair.

Understandable, though I think there are people from *both* fanbases who feel this way. I wonder if that's why Felicity is going to Iris's bachelorette party (apart from the fact that Flash has so few female characters), to establish that Felicity and Iris are close and its NBD that they have a ceremony one after the other and everyone is happy for everyone else and no one's thunder is being stolen. Won't work on the fandom I don't think but that might be the intent. Though I wonder if they put even that much thought into it.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Featherhat

[way2interested]

4 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

The WA wedding will be crashed in the first episode, then all the action, Stein dies, and at the end of his funeral the two couples do a spur-of-the-moment ceremony on the spot in their funeral attire, kind of a life-is-short kind of thing.

It sounds more like WA continues with their wedding after Stein's funeral and then Olicity decides the life-is-short thing after WA get married.

[DrSpaceman10]

The only thing I really have an issue with is Ray/Sara being at Olicity's wedding. I know it's an LoT episode, but I hope they don't get much focus. 

Plus, it's such a big moment for Oliver/Felicity and Barry/Iris, those characters should get the most focus. 

[ruby24]

Just now, way2interested said:

It sounds more like WA continues with their wedding after Stein's funeral and then Olicity decides the life-is-short thing after WA get married.

Well, at that point they'll both be the same kind of quick vows, no wedding clothes, on the spot thing. It's not like WA will get a wedding reception or anything that was planned originally.

[thegirlsleuth]

As far as wedding location, the LoT ship could mean that it might happen in any time or place.  It could be a triple wedding with Queen Victoria or alternative on the Justice League Watchtower.  Of course it will probably happen in Star Labs because they are cheap.

While I think that the death is almost definitely Stein, Elongated Man is on the Flash this season and one of the big comic plots involves the death of his wife.  There's some icky stuff, but in the end the whole league comes together to solve her death, with Mr. Terrific and Ray Palmer playing key roles.  I haven't heard any casting of Elongated Man's wife, but her death kicked of Identity Crisis and they might be going for some similar themes.

[way2interested]

Just now, ruby24 said:

Well, at that point they'll both be the same kind of quick vows, no wedding clothes, on the spot thing. It's not like WA will get a wedding reception or anything that was planned originally.

I guess, but WA might still have the (apparently pretty) planned location for the wedding, along with Iris' planned dress and Barry's planned tux and the planned wedding guests and cake and etc., while Olicity might then just use the same location just because they're all there and want to live in the moment.

[apinknightmare]

16 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

I will still feel totally robbed of the big WA wedding after all this build-up for it. It's unfair.

It sucks. But at least they aren’t breaking up and getting idiot love interests between the engagement and the wedding.

[Chaser]

5 minutes ago, DrSpaceman10 said:

The only thing I really have an issue with is Ray/Sara being at Olicity's wedding. I know it's an LoT episode, but I hope they don't get much focus. 

Plus, it's such a big moment for Oliver/Felicity and Barry/Iris, those characters should get the most focus. 

My biggest concern is time. I want a sappy speech from Diggle and full vows from Oliver and Felicity. After 4x16, I'm owed.

[ruby24]

5 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I guess, but WA might still have the (apparently pretty) planned location for the wedding, along with Iris' planned dress and Barry's planned tux and the planned wedding guests and cake and etc., while Olicity might then just use the same location just because they're all there and want to live in the moment.

I think this "great location" thing is referring to a cliffside or someplace where they spread Stein's ashes. I doubt they go back to wherever the wedding was supposed to be after the chaos/destruction.

Also, I bet neither of them get original vows at that point, just the simple "do you take...." and "I do's." Blech. See, it all becomes unspecial if they do it this way. Aside from taking place after Stein's death, which I'm sure is supposed to give it poignancy. No one gets to give toasts, no first dance...I wanted all that stuff.

I wish they were crashing WA's reception instead.

Edited September 26, 2017 by ruby24

[Starfish35]

2 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

where they spread Stein's ashes.

Did they say something about this?  I assumed he would be buried, but maybe not?

And somewhere in all of this, Lyla will tell Diggle she is pregnant again.  :) There, they hit them all.  Birth, death, marriage. 

[way2interested]

Just now, ruby24 said:

I think this "great location" thing is referring to a cliffside or someplace where they spread Stein's ashes. I doubt they go back to wherever the wedding was supposed to be after the chaos/destruction.

Idk, I guess I just doubt that they'd have a wedding where they have the funeral, but I guess WestAllen could have their fake wedding too like Olicity where they get to say their vows but then don't technically get married until later?  

[ruby24]

5 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Did they say something about this?  I assumed he would be buried, but maybe not?

No, I admit that's me speculating. I just think that if two couples are getting married immediately after a funeral, it's not taking place in a graveyard. BUT, if they do something different with Stein, like spread his ashes over the sea (they've had an awful lot of graveyard funerals on both these shows already), then the location where they all are will probably be beautiful and then it makes more sense to do a quick vow recitation for the two couples by the water, and the whole affair doesn't seem so sad. 

It's the "life event" stuff Berlanti was bragging about earlier.

Edited September 26, 2017 by ruby24

[Cleanqueen]

I dont think one couple deserves it more than the other, but Olicity is the older couple who almost got married a year and a half ago. I dont think Olicity wants a big wedding at this stage, they probably just want to say I do.

We'll probably see Iris in her original wedding dress and just as they're about to say their vows their wedding is crashed.

The only thing WA is getting that Olicity didnt get was the bachelorette party, but Olicity had an engagement party which I don't think WA is getting.

So both couples have something the other couple doesnt. 

[insomniadreams88]

Maybe they'll have Stein's funeral, and then the Legends will decide to take a couple of days in CC before returning to traveling through time.

And then when everyone gathers to say goodbye to the Legends and Kara and Alex - again, a couple of days after the funeral, not immediately after - WA decides, "hey, everyone's here, let's get married." And then after, Olicity gets married. 

Just ... anything that gives us at least a day between a funeral and the weddings. 

[Chaser]

I think the funeral scene just transitions into the wedding scene, not that they turn the funeral site into an impromptu wedding venue.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Chaser

[ruby24]

Just now, Chaser said:

I think funeral scene just transitions into the wedding scene, not that they turn the funeral site into an impromptu wedding venue.

They could definitely do it if it takes place by the water though! I'm just trying to read out from that "great location" hint. If it not's a graveyard and they're spreading his ashes instead, that gives them a chance to do all of it in one final scene. 

[Starfish35]

Stein is Jewish, though.  I admit I don't know a lot about the subject, but isn't cremation against Jewish tradition?

[Guest]

Whatever happens I just hope both couples get to say some meaningful vows. They both deserve a special moment and not something rushed, even though it sounds like the weddings are gonna be last minute. And if I don't get Diggle saying something about Olicity and how he knew this day would come eventually, I will RIOT. ?

[Midnight Lullaby]

They could let Barry and Iris get to their vows before interrupting..with all the action happening and all the characters that are involved this year I didn't think even before the last spoilers that they were going to dedicate enough time to cut the cake, first dance, dance with dad..

[statsgirl]

12 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Stein is Jewish, though.  I admit I don't know a lot about the subject, but isn't cremation against Jewish tradition?

Good catch.

Quote

The Jewish funeral consists of a burial, also known as an interment. Cremation is forbidden. Burial is considered to allow the body to decompose naturally, therefore embalming is forbidden. Burial is intended to take place in as short an interval of time after death as possible. Displaying of the body prior to burial does not take place.[5][6] Flowers are usually not found at a traditional Jewish funeral but may be seen at statesmen's or heroes' funerals in Israel.[7]

In Israel, the Jewish funeral service usually commences at the burial ground. In the United States and Canada, the funeral service commences either at a funeral home or at the cemetery. Occasionally the service will commence at a synagogue. In the case of a prominent individual, the funeral service can begin at a synagogue or a yeshivah. If the funeral service begins at a point other than at the cemetery, the entourage accompanies the body in a procession to the cemetery. Usually the funeral ceremony is brief and includes the recitation of psalms, followed by a eulogy, or hesped and finishes with a traditional closing prayer, the El Moley Rachamim.[8] The funeral, the procession accompanying the body to the place of burial, and the burial, are referred to by the word levayah, meaning "escorting." Levayah also indicates "joining" and "bonding." This aspect of the meaning of levayah conveys the suggestion of a commonality among the souls of the living and the dead.[6]

Edited September 26, 2017 by statsgirl

[ruby24]

3 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

They could let Barry and Iris get to their vows before interrupting..with all the action happening and all the characters that are involved this year I didn't think even before the last spoilers that they were going to dedicate enough time to cut the cake, first dance, dance with dad..

Yeah, see, I WANTED all that stuff!

I wish the villains could crash the reception instead. I'd be totally cool with that. Then they could even make Oliver/Felicity's last minute wedding the focus at the end and that'd be fine too. Both couples would definitely get their own moment that way.

There's no way either of them do vows in a quickie ceremony at the very end for both.

Edited September 26, 2017 by ruby24

[Chaser]

Lemon deleted all her Olicity related spoilers. They want this under wraps.

[Midnight Lullaby]

6 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

Yeah, see, I WANTED all that stuff!

I wish the villains could crash the reception instead. I'd be totally cool with that. Then the could even make Oliver/Felicity's last minute wedding the focus at the end and that'd be fine too. Both couples would definitely get their moment that way.

There's no way either of them do vows in a quickie ceremony at the very end for both.

I understand that, lol. I didn't find it likely because usually the focus is on whatever threat they are facing and this year there are even more people that usual so I thought it was going to be rushed.

I could see Barry and Iris doing their vows at the beginning then later just saying I do..Oliver and Felicity had their vows in the fake wedding episode so I think something short and sweet for them too.

The only thing that leaves me baffled is getting married right after Stein dies. It's so weird.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Midnight Lullaby

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Lemon deleted all her Olicity related spoilers. They want this under wraps.

Yeah, it's definitely meant to be the surprise. I'm just laughing at all the responses to everything SA tweets. Now he's gonna know it got out. LOL.

[Chaser]

Stein is probably going to sacrifice himself and give a speech first about seizing life and not waiting and yada.

Killing a Jewish character in a Nazi episode. gross.

[statsgirl]

20 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

The only thing that leaves me baffled is getting married right after Stein dies. It's so weird.

I think they could pull it off as a celebration of life after the death of someone close to them.

26 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

Yeah, see, I WANTED all that stuff!

I wish the villains could crash the reception instead. I'd be totally cool with that. Then they could even make Oliver/Felicity's last minute wedding the focus at the end and that'd be fine too.

I want all that stuff for Olicity.  Especially after what we got was a fake wedding and Felicity immediately telling Oliver not to give her the ring back again.

But I will give them this -- since they won't give both couples the dream wedding and reception, it's fair that neither has it.

Edited September 26, 2017 by statsgirl

[Featherhat]

8 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Stein is probably going to sacrifice himself and give a speech first about seizing life and not waiting and yada.

Killing a Jewish character in a Nazi episode. gross.

Not the best move certainly but Stein has won against Nazi's before and even sung Edelweiss at them so I'm ok with him going out like a hero with everyone there since vg is moving on. and being LOT if he wants to come back at any point they can make that happen.

9 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

 

But I will give them this -- since they won't give both couples the dream wedding and reception, it's fair that neither does.

True, though I doubt even if both couples did get their own weddings on their own shows that they would have got all that without some disaster happening. Lyla and Dig and Catlin and Ronnie certainly didn't. I know they weren't the banner couples for these shows but with their title characters just means it would have been a bigger interruption - ala Nazis from another universe.

[bijoux]

3 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

They could let Barry and Iris get to their vows before interrupting..with all the action happening and all the characters that are involved this year I didn't think even before the last spoilers that they were going to dedicate enough time to cut the cake, first dance, dance with dad..

Eh, Joe would probably take Barry for a spin on the dance floor before he did Iris anyway.

[ruby24]

I think I was fine with a crossover wedding for WA, because from the start I ASSUMED that the Flash episode would give them plenty of focus, because it's their own show. But now, since it appears they're truly committed to the 4-hour movie idea, that actually changes everything. Probably the wedding will be even less focused on than I originally thought, because even though I never believed it would take up all the attention across the episodes, I figured the Flash one itself would do plenty for them.

But now? My guess is it will get less attention than it would have gotten in that scenario where each show is still its own episode. It's probably going to be a constant ensemble with all the characters moving around all the time across the four hours. And I bet the villains will crash it fairly early on. I predict no personal moments for Barry and Iris, no Joe pre-wedding talk or anything like that for Flash characters (or other show's characters), because everyone has to be on equal footing. 

Which decreases the amount of meaningful interaction btw characters from one show. So there won't be any special kind of WA stuff in particular, other than just the setting of the place is their wedding. That sucks. For me.

Edited September 26, 2017 by ruby24

[Featherhat]

12 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Eh, Joe would probably take Barry for a spin on the dance floor before he did Iris anyway.

True. Baring a few scenes here and there for Joe it goes: BARRY,Wally before Joe even knew about him, hypothetical future sons..........Iris. He probably thinks of himself as Father of the Groom. Sigh.

11 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

I think I was fine with a crossover wedding for WA, because from the start I ASSUMED that the Flash episode would give them plenty of focus, because it's their own show. But now, since it appears they're truly committed to the 4-hour movie idea, that actually changes everything. Probably the wedding will be even less focused on than I originally thought, because even though I never believed it would take up all the attention across the episodes, I figured the Flash one itself would do plenty for them.

But now? My guess is it will get less attention than it would have gotten in that scenario where each show is still its own episode. It's probably going to be a constant ensemble with all the characters moving around all the time across the four hours. And I bet the villains will crash it fairly early on. I predict no personal moments for Barry and Iris, no Joe pre-wedding talk or anything like that for Flash characters (or other show's characters), because everyone has to be on equal footing. 

Which decreases the amount of meaningful interaction btw characters from one show. So there won't be any special kind of WA stuff in particular, other than just the setting of the place is their wedding. That sucks. For me.

I would be surprised if Joe or maybe Oliver didn't give Barry a pre wedding pep talk (I seriously never worry about Barry getting lots of pep talks/character time even in crossovers) and probably Iris getting ready in her dress with the girls etc, just to make it more dramatic when the villains crash in. Plus although this isn't WA related Sara/Alex are supposed to have a pre wedding hook up so there will be wedding related celebrations going on in the Supergirl ep at least before the fighting starts.

I do agree that meaningful interaction for characters from any one show is probably going to be in general short supply, but it was somewhat last year as well, especially on the LOT episode which ended with Barry and Oliver not the LOT crew. Sigh. I do still think WA will have their moment in the sun and we know Iris is having a Bachelorette party so it is an ongoing theme through out the lead up to the crossover.

[BkWurm1]

5 hours ago, Cleanqueen said:

I dont think one couple deserves it more than the other, but Olicity is the older couple who almost got married a year and a half ago. I dont think Olicity wants a big wedding at this stage, they probably just want to say I do.

We'll probably see Iris in her original wedding dress and just as they're about to say their vows their wedding is crashed.

The only thing WA is getting that Olicity didnt get was the bachelorette party, but Olicity had an engagement party which I don't think WA is getting.

So both couples have something the other couple doesnt. 

 

4 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I think they could pull it off as a celebration of life after the death of someone close to them.

I want all that stuff for Olicity.  Especially after what we got was a fake wedding and Felicity immediately telling Oliver not to give her the ring back again.

But I will give them this -- since they won't give both couples the dream wedding and reception, it's fair that neither has it.

I'm not really sure it is a fair set up really.  I mean WA are essentially gettin married by an acquaintance while Olicity are getting married by their brother/best friend

And If the characters do get to say vows when the weddings are happening (final hour) does that mean it's the LoT writers who will be writing the vows?  If so then Guggenheim knows Olicity better than he does Westallen so their vows might suffer.

WA will have lots of pre episode promotion but because the Olicity wedding will be a surprise, that part could well likely be the more talked about wedding in the end.

And didn't the EPs for the Flash tease the question of if they can stay married?  So that's already put such a Pall over the wedding while Olicity has already had its year plus of terrible so at least we're on the other side of it and have a chance of it being smooth sailing from here out. Maybe if there was more time they could have dispelled some of those concerns in the episode but all the action is going to make it rush, rush, rush.

No, the more I think about, the more I agree that WA is getting the short end of the deal. It isn't fair.  Even just to get to a surprise Olicity wedding they are going to have to include some set up ahead of time so while WA is all set to just get married once the Nazis are taken care of, the writers are going to have to include moments of of conversations about/between  Oliver and Felicity throughout the crossover and while Barry and Iris might get moments too, there's less of a guarantee since its already a done deal. They could technically cut those scenes for time if they need to.

 Depending on when the wedding is crashed, there could be so many little moments lost.   416 was a fake wedding but those vows were very real and boy would I behave been sad if I hadn't gotten to see Oliver's face when he saw Felicity in her full wedding finery.   We already had that so the Olicity wedding doesn't have to be that again (though I'm quite sure the look on Oliver's face will be just as wonderful no matter what Felicity is wearing)

So yeah, even though an Olicity wedding in the crossover isn't ideal, I think a WA wedding in the crossover will suffer the greater negative impact.  Such a shame they couldn't have just done it in a Flash episode on its own where the writers could justify fleshing out all the special little moments.  But in the crossover I assume so much might be rushed right through since 3/4 of the audience potentially don't even care when if it had been all in the Flash section, they'd know they would be speaking right to their targeted audience and could just revel in all the details. 

I swear, the idiots in charge make such weird choices. 

[Mrs. de Winter]

2 hours ago, bijoux said:

Eh, Joe would probably take Barry for a spin on the dance floor before he did Iris anyway.

Iris will likely also have to wait for Joe to make his rounds among the guests telling everyone how horrible Oliver/GA is and how much better Barry is as a hero. 

5 hours ago, Chaser said:

Killing a Jewish character in a Nazi episode. gross.

There are shows where I think this could be interesting and offer a decent message considering the state of the world.  These shows, are not them. 

So does this mean William is not at his father's wedding?  I don't have a ton of use for William, but that seems cold given all he has been through and the idea that he and Oliver are supposed to be building a relationship.  Or does he make the crossover cast and Thea doesn't?

[ruby24]

Ugh, I just got a load of the call sheet in the spoiler thread that the paps are getting their info from. That sounds TERRIBLE. 

WA is definitely getting the short end of the stick here. This totally cheapens their marriage and wedding, lol. 

[Trini]

Blegh- Why would you want to tack on a major milestone for your couple on the special day of another couple? I'm just still baffled about why Berlanti let this happen. Even if you wanted to try and parallel the relationships -- it's not the time to do it.  And then since one will be following/emulating the other, it's not an equal comparison.

But I'm still in 'wait and see' mode (although my expectations are lowered) since we don't have the full context of these spoilers.

[lemotomato]

You're right. If Olicity didn't already have 2 sex scenes, 1 public proposal, 2 private proposals, and a fake wedding with real vows, I suppose I would be more disappointed that they had to share their wedding day with another couple.