Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[tv echo]

Still no Arrow directing gig yet...

[JJ928]

9 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

My god, she looks like she's having a seizure on stage.

Edited August 14, 2017 by JJ928

[BkWurm1]

9 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

I wonder if they will keep plugging SG if the ratings continue to nosedive in S3. 

But she just danced with a hot dog!  How could the ratings go down???

I watch all the Arrowverse shows but it's never been more clear to me how much Supergirl and The Flash are aimed at teenagers.  (or younger).  

[Velocity23]

4 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

But she just danced with a hot dog!  How could the ratings go down???

I watch all the Arrowverse shows but it's never been more clear to me how much Supergirl and The Flash are aimed at teenagers.  (or younger).  

Netflix has Supergirl and Flash listed in kids section. 

[BkWurm1]

5 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Netflix has Supergirl and Flash listed in kids section. 

Hahaahahahahaah!  

Well that explains why WestAllen gets PG smooches and Kara was already dressed and out of the apartment for the morning after scene.  

[lemotomato]

9 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

Well the two shows who get all the promo anyway got promo. What a surprise. 

I was going to say that I wasn't sure if the CW even realizes they have more than 2 superhero shows, and then I remembered that LoT had a panel at the other TCA (Television Critics Association) meeting last week. Poor neglected Arrow.

[LeighAn]

40 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Hahaahahahahaah!  

Well that explains why WestAllen gets PG smooches and Kara was already dressed and out of the apartment for the morning after scene.  

They need to hit puberty so they can mature and get to this:

 

[catrox14]

7 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

They need to hit puberty so they can mature and get to this:

 

I still can't believe they got away with the first manuever. I mean, as if they weren't playing that as some doggy style LOL

Bless SA and EBR for just going for it in those scenes.  Gives me life. LOL

I would laugh my ass off if WA and Karamel ever tried those manuevers. 

[lemotomato]

45 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I would laugh my ass off if WA and Karamel ever tried those manuevers. 

Wasn't there a post earlier about an FCC complaint a viewer filed about the scene in Flash 1.08 where Felicity takes off her shirt because it's on fire? It complained that she stood around only wearing a bra, that her arm movements caused her breasts to jiggle, and that a male character touched her breasts (trying to put the fire out) and therefore the scene was "inappropriately sexual" .

It's a safe bet WA and Karamel aren't going to get the type of love scenes Olicity got.

[catrox14]

Just now, lemotomato said:

Wasn't there a post earlier about an FCC complaint a viewer filed about the scene in Flash 1.08 where Felicity takes off her shirt because it's on fire? It complained that she stood around only wearing a bra, that her arm movements caused her breasts to jiggle, and that a male character touched her breasts (trying to put the fire out) and therefore the scene was "inappropriately sexual" .

It's a safe bet WA and Karamel aren't going to get the type of love scenes Olicity got.

OMG. Seriously? I never heard about that. My gods. Like what kind of perverted thinking makes someone file that complaint? Like are viewers unable to discern the difference between sexually charged scenes and not? WOW

[ruby24]

I think that's really stupid and unfair. Most WA fans are baffled that they haven't been allowed to have any kind of love scene. They didn't even have a scene indicating when they first slept together, which should have been a big deal!

It's made people question whether it's because of a network bias due to them being an interracial couple.

Edited August 14, 2017 by ruby24

[lemotomato]

Flash and Supergirl are rated TV-PG, while Arrow and LoT are rated TV-14. Different audiences, different content expectations. 

Edited August 14, 2017 by lemotomato

[Chaser]

I'm thankful Olicity isn't getting married on The Flash episode of the Crossover. I want our annual sex scene.

[catrox14]

10 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Flash and Supergirl are rated TV-PG, while Arrow and LoT are rated TV-14. Different audiences, different content expectations. 

Are those ratings for every episode or do they vary from episode to episode?

[lemotomato]

9 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Are those ratings for every episode or do they vary from episode to episode?

I think they're generally the ratings unless there's an exception. IIRC, Supergirl has had some episodes (maybe 1/3 of season 2) rated TV-14. Every episode of Flash season 3 was rated TV-PG.

Edited August 14, 2017 by lemotomato

[apinknightmare]

41 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

It's made people question whether it's because of a network bias due to them being an interracial couple.

I stopped watching on account of Barry being walking garbage, so I missed the last half of last season, but haven't they always just shown post-coital bed sharing. Like cuddling and whatnot? I recall that with Eddie and Iris, and Barry and Patty. I think it's a Flash thing, not a race thing.

[catrox14]

17 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

It's made people question whether it's because of a network bias due to them being an interracial couple.

I could be misremembering but I thought there were several interracial pairings on the CW where they did show the couples in bed together and some with heavy petting so to speak, like Crazy Ex Girlfriend, The Originals, The 100, Jane the Virgin.

[SmallScreenDiva]

47 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

OMG. Seriously? I never heard about that. My gods. Like what kind of perverted thinking makes someone file that complaint? Like are viewers unable to discern the difference between sexually charged scenes and not? WOW

I think a copy of the complaint was actually posted here ... maybe in the Behind the Scenes thread? 

[wonderwall]

7 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I stopped watching on account of Barry being walking garbage, so I missed the last half of last season, but haven't they always just shown post-coital bed sharing. Like cuddling and whatnot? I recall that with Eddie and Iris, and Barry and Patty. I think it's a Flash thing, not a race thing.

I applaud you for making it that far in the first place

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I think a copy of the complaint was actually posted here ... maybe in the Behind the Scenes thread? 

Oh I believe you. Sorry, my disbelief wasn't that it existed but that someone would see that as something inappropriate. Like how can that complaint exist at all LOL not that it didn't exist.  If that makes any sense. LOL

[wonderwall]

54 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Wasn't there a post earlier about an FCC complaint a viewer filed about the scene in Flash 1.08 where Felicity takes off her shirt because it's on fire? It complained that she stood around only wearing a bra, that her arm movements caused her breasts to jiggle, and that a male character touched her breasts (trying to put the fire out) and therefore the scene was "inappropriately sexual" .

It's a safe bet WA and Karamel aren't going to get the type of love scenes Olicity got.

What's hilarious is that if you look at where the location of the complaint was made it's in Laurel, MD

LMAO

[Chaser]

Flash is Kid-Tested-Mother-Approved. Unless they change their target audience, they aren't going to be getting Olicity-like scenes.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Just now, catrox14 said:

Oh I believe you. Sorry, my disbelief wasn't that it existed but that someone would see that as something inappropriate. Like how can that complaint exist at all LOL not that it didn't exist.  If that makes any sense. LOL

Oh, I didn't read your comment as disbelief :) It would have been more helpful if I actually linked to the post but I was too lazy, LOL!

[Proteus]

20 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Flash is Kid-Tested-Mother-Approved. Unless they change their target audience, they aren't going to be getting Olicity-like scenes.

I don't buy this. The Flash  may not have shown a sex scene up till now but they've had things implied like kinky sex. HR made several sexual comments last season. That's not kiddy stuff.

[Chaser]

Depends. Would the kids watching understand the comment?

There is a big difference between telling/inferring to the audience that something happened and showing the audience.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Chaser

[wonderwall]

16 minutes ago, Proteus said:

I don't buy this. The Flash  may not have shown a sex scene up till now but they've had things implied like kinky sex. HR made several sexual comments last season. That's not kiddy stuff.

There were a lot of implied sexual comments in Disney Cartoons which went way over my head when I watched as a kid so to me unless it's a sexual comment that's really apparent, I don't know if this is a good point...

[Featherhat]

I don't think it's because of an interracial issue. Eddie and Iris had the "raciest" scene on the Flash in S1, and by that I mean they were in bed and she was sitting on his legs whilst trying to get him to stay in longer IRRC. For whatever reason they don't seem to want to go even there with WestAllen or any other pairings. Slightly inferring some super powered sex either there or on Supergirl is light years away from the sex scenes on Arrow. They let them be a bit more graphic, probably because it does have a darker tone and started out with a sister swapping sex scene in the pilot etc. LOT references sex a fair bit but I don't think we ever see that much, Sara/Queen of France had some fully clothed um rolling around and Nate/Amaya wasn't as graphic as Arrow either.

[Karlophe]

In the interest of fairness to the multiple posts above, the fact that this is the CW where "first times" are almost always a production (with multiple couples across racial lines) was exactly why there was so much upset with some fans, and fairly so. I myself was never bothered because due to their age and long history I just assumed that  once they got together,  they "got together". My sympathy for my fellow fans came after - I'm sad to know that anyone was so particularly excluded on something that was seen as a given elsewhere, for something that meant alot to them, when it didn't have to be that way. And speaking of...

48 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I'm thankful Olicity isn't getting married on The Flash episode of the Crossover. 

*sighs*

Okay,  look. I know how this board feels about Flash, and all pertaining. I know many have had strong feelings about their likely crossover wedding. But I, as someone who watches all four shows, and loves all of our characters, and waits like a happy puppy for the yearly chance to see all of our friends in one place, don't see why there is so much cause for unhappiness. As far as I've seen, the ladies here seem to want their wedding to be a more intimate, Arrow-centric, in-show affair, where you can dedicate the entire episode to the ones you love the most. Flash, who of the four spends most time hopping universes and making friends all across it is likely getting married at the time that fits him best - the crossover, where we can all watch characters who we otherwise don't get to see interact very much laugh, snark, and bounce off of one another in hilarious and possibly property damaging ways.  

All together, I think this is wonderful! There's something for everyone. Seperately, I think this is a rare television occasion of multiple groups, at least partway, each getting what they say they've wanted. With things heading down a path that likely ends happily for almost everyone, I wish there wasn't so much anger, or even hostility, when it really doesn't have to be that way. A wedding is a happy occasion, and don't we all now have that to look forward to?

[way2interested]

1 minute ago, Featherhat said:

I don't think it's because of an interracial issue. Eddie and Iris had the "raciest" scene on the Flash in S1, and by that I mean they were in bed and she was sitting on his legs whilst trying to get him to stay in longer IRRC. For whatever reason they don't seem to want to go even there with WestAllen or any other pairings.

If going with the family-friendly awareness premise, I would guess that they could have just decided for Flash to tone it down over time once they realized that families were watching (that Eddie/Iris scene was in 108, filmed before audiences really watched a bunch of episodes of Flash). 

[apinknightmare]

14 minutes ago, Karlophe said:

But I, as someone who watches all four shows, and loves all of our characters, and waits like a happy puppy for the yearly chance to see all of our friends in one place, don't see why there is so much cause for unhappiness.

You really don't understand why fans of Arrow wouldn't want their ship married on another show? I'm guessing that's what you're referring to you since that's the comment you quoted. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

25 minutes ago, Karlophe said:

...  A wedding is a happy occasion, and don't we all now have that to look forward to?

Nope. As someone who doesn't watch any of the other shows and has no plans to watch them just because of the crossover, I would be extremely unhappy if my ship gets married on a show I don't watch. I want to actually be able to watch my ship get married, it's as simple as that.

Edited to add: For whatever it's worth, I don't think Arrow will Olicity marry on the other shows.

Edited August 14, 2017 by SmallScreenDiva

[Chaser]

Didn't MG say they found there isn't as much viewer crossover as they expected?

[catrox14]

27 minutes ago, Karlophe said:

All together, I think this is wonderful! There's something for everyone. Seperately, I think this is a rare television occasion of multiple groups, at least partway, each getting what they say they've wanted. With things heading down a path that likely ends happily for almost everyone, I wish there wasn't so much anger, or even hostility, when it really doesn't have to be that way. A wedding is a happy occasion, and don't we all now have that to look forward to?

Arrow was already screwed on their 100th episode because it was shoved into the crossover so I want Olicity wedding in Arrow. I'm not sure why Flash fans want an Olicity wedding in their show. It's weird to me. Other than better ratings.

[ruby24]

Flash fans don't want an Olicity wedding in their show! Who's saying that? 

[Guest]

I don't watch all four shows so nah, I don't want to watch another show just to see my ship get married. That kind of event is a big thing for the characters and should happen on their own show. 

It's how I felt when you kind of had to watch The Flash to understand why Sara Diggle no longer existed. I know it's a shared universe but I begrudge major things like that happening.

[LeighAn]

51 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

I don't think it's because of an interracial issue. Eddie and Iris had the "raciest" scene on the Flash in S1, and by that I mean they were in bed and she was sitting on his legs whilst trying to get him to stay in longer IRRC. For whatever reason they don't seem to want to go even there with WestAllen or any other pairings. Slightly inferring some super powered sex either there or on Supergirl is light years away from the sex scenes on Arrow. They let them be a bit more graphic, probably because it does have a darker tone and started out with a sister swapping sex scene in the pilot etc. LOT references sex a fair bit but I don't think we ever see that much, Sara/Queen of France had some fully clothed um rolling around and Nate/Amaya wasn't as graphic as Arrow either.

Honestly I don't think it's a racial issue or tone issue. Yes The Flash does appeal to a younger family friendly audience therefore requires more kid approved storylines. However, to me I think differences in actor chemistry also has something to do with it. Stephen and Emily are very tactile actors who have a lot of vested interest in the success of their onscreen relationship and put a lot of thought and planning in how it's executed particularly when it comes to live scenes plus they have a natural chemistry that takes over l. I don't get the same impression from Candice and Grant who seem very by the numbers, what's on the page only kind of on screen couple plus Grant Gustin isn't the oozes sexual chemistry kind of guy like Stephen Amell has in spades. 

[Karlophe]

I think I've been misunderstood a bit. To clarify, I believe both couples will have separate weddings. Flash is likely to have theirs during the crossover, and Arrow, as I said in my earlier post, of having a wedding centric episode during their own show. (No one wants a double wedding.)

Now, with everyone, as I said, having every chance of getting what they want, Flash with Superfriends and Arrow on their own terms and on home ground, why is there so much unhappiness about the crossover? Because in all honesty I can't quite see what I'm missing.

[LeighAn]

1 minute ago, Karlophe said:

I think I've been misunderstood a bit. To clarify, I believe both couples will have separate weddings. Flash is likely to have theirs during the crossover, and Arrow, as I said in my earlier post, of having a wedding centric episode during their own show. (No one wants a double wedding.)

Now, with everyone, as I said, having every chance of getting what they want, Flash with Superfriends and Arrow on their own terms and on home ground, why is there so much unhappiness about the crossover? Because in all honesty I can't quite see what I'm missing.

Maybe it's because it feels like people come in here to make it a race or competition or frankly gloat about a crossover wedding to people who are not really interested in a crossover wedding in the first place and when there are more appropriate boards to have conversations about a big Flash wedding. That's my god honest opinion.

 

Be clear I'm not saying Flash fans are wrong to talk about it here but don't expect people to suddenly change their minds and be super happy and receptive about a crossover wedding because ain't going to happen.

[SmallScreenDiva]

4 minutes ago, Karlophe said:

why is there so much unhappiness about the crossover? Because in all honesty I can't quite see what I'm missing.

Not really sure, but then again I don't see a lot of unhappiness about the crossover itself. I think there might be trepidations on the part of some fans that if there are indeed weddings, they won't happen on the couples' own shows. Other than that, I really don't care what they do or how they do it. I only care about Arrow.

[Guest]

Personally, I haven't enjoyed a crossover since the first one so for me I just generally don't want one. I think they're kind of messy tbh and I sometimes feel like they interrupt the flow of the season. I definitely felt that way about the Arrow 100th. It added nothing to s5. 

I can basically take or leave a crossover. I'm just kind of meh about the whole thing. 

Edited August 14, 2017 by Guest

[Midnight Lullaby]

8 minutes ago, Karlophe said:

 

Now, with everyone, as I said, having every chance of getting what they want, Flash with Superfriends and Arrow on their own terms and on home ground, why is there so much unhappiness about the crossover? Because in all honesty I can't quite see what I'm missing.

Speaking only for myself I haven't enjoyed the last two crossovers..it feels like every year they try to do something bigger and it ends up being way too many masks fighting and that's pretty much it. I liked the first one where we had less characters and less masks. Now with Legends and this year I imagine the newbies on Arrow will be involved as well it's too many people, too many masks for me. 

[LeighAn]

1 minute ago, Angel12d said:

Personally, I haven't enjoyed a crossover since the first one so for me I just generally don't want one. I think they're kind of messy tbh and I sometimes feel like they interrupt the flow of the season. I definitely felt that way about the Arrow 100th. It added nothing to s5. 

I can basically take or leave a crossover. I'm just kind of meh about the whole thing. 

This too. A lot of Arrow fans already have 'Way too many characters' fatigue from an overcrowded Team Arrow that the crossover is just taking one of the shows flaws and multiplying it by like 500. 

 

Plus I feel like the crossovers are played out and not as freash anymore.

[JamieLynn832002]

I don't really mind the crossovers but I don't particularly enjoy them either. I think the fact they are four separate shows that don't 100% share the same fanbase gets lost during them. Last year, Legends of Tomorrow ended on Barry and Oliver, I watch all three shows and enjoyed the scene but I did keep thinking "Wait, this is LoT, right?" I can only imagine how people who greatly prefer LoT felt about it.

[Karlophe]

Ah, okay. That's more than fair. I'd just like to say, if I ever in my multiverse enthusiasm came across as gloating or unkind, I apologize - and I mean that sincerely. As I said, I do love the universe and everyone in it (as a Legends lover who is an enormous sucker for any and all BarryxOliver interactions, you know I was conflicted!) and enjoy having a place to talk about it. However, I'd never need or expect others to feel the same, or begrudge anyones preference for one, some, none, or all. I feel like I understand where everyone is coming from a little bit better now; thank you for your responses.

[lemotomato]

1 hour ago, Karlophe said:

Now, with everyone, as I said, having every chance of getting what they want, Flash with Superfriends and Arrow on their own terms and on home ground, why is there so much unhappiness about the crossover? Because in all honesty I can't quite see what I'm missing.

Personally, I'm not excited about the crossovers because I don't watch the other shows, and I resent that I have to watch the other shows to understand what's happening on my show that particular week. Secondly, the crossover last year and this year have been sold as "Comic fans are going to go love what we're planning" and "Comic fans will recognize immediately what we're going to do!" Well, I'm not a DC comic fan. What do I, as an Arrow fan, get to look forward to? Oh right, no one cares about Arrow or Arrow fans, especially not during the crossovers. 

Edited August 14, 2017 by lemotomato

[insomniadreams88]

For me, one of the problems that arises with the crossovers (especially now that we're going to have four shows in it, since Supergirl is going to be a bigger part of it this year) is how easy it is to have a divide between the masks/fighters and the "tech support"/everyone else. 

Plus, I feel like they can't resist having conversations between the "leaders" of the shows, so we get Oliver and Barry (twice! on The Flash and LoT), Oliver and Sara, Oliver and Kara, Kara and Barry, etc., but we don't get interactions between other characters that I'd like to see as well. (And that's the problem with having multiple shows with big casts. You can't have everyone talk to everyone else, or it would take up the entire crossover just for those conversations.) 

For example, have Felicity and Sara even talked since season 2 of Arrow? Not that I can remember. They had a half-hug as they walked off in last year's Flash episode of the crossover and that's it. We didn't get any (real) OTA and Arrow celebrated its 100th episode. Did Felicity and Barry talk during the crossover and I forgot about it because I think their conversation came strictly on The Flash when Felicity guest starred? etc. 

[catrox14]

51 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

Flash fans don't want an Olicity wedding in their show! Who's saying that? 

Sorry let me be more clear. IMO, if there were to be a double wedding, I'm pretty sure it would be on the Flash episode and it wouldn't start with the Arrow episode since it's airing second.  So to me I don't know why either Arrow or  Flash fans would want a double wedding on the Flash, and further why there would be consternation amongst Flash fans with Arrow fans for being unhappy IF that were to happen. I don't know if that cleared anything up or not. LOL

[leopardprint]

Personally, in addition to too many masks, I will always resent that the Flash and to a certain extent LOT (but I don't think they have) can alter Arrow like erasing a minor but beloved character just so there are consequences to Barry's selfish actions but ones that don't actually affect his own show. 

In the crossovers they focus on the lead characters of all the shows because there are too many characters. You end up with weird overemphasis on certain characters from the other shows that really would have no relevance to the situation. So, for example, why would I care what Kara or Jax or Wally thinks about an Olicity wedding over say Donna who would probably not be included because of time/casting issues? That's just one problem I could see with a crossover wedding. 

Also on the other side, why would Flash fans care about Dinah or Rene being at Iris and Barry's wedding? 

Edited August 15, 2017 by leopardprint

[BkWurm1]

46 minutes ago, JamieLynn832002 said:

I don't really mind the crossovers but I don't particularly enjoy them either. I think the fact they are four separate shows that don't 100% share the same fanbase gets lost during them. Last year, Legends of Tomorrow ended on Barry and Oliver, I watch all three shows and enjoyed the scene but I did keep thinking "Wait, this is LoT, right?" I can only imagine how people who greatly prefer LoT felt about it.

And this last year they really botched the tone of the scenes for the Arrow episode for those that were left behind to search for those kidnapped.  They tried to continue the same tone as they'd had in the opening Flash episode which worked there,  because, hello, five of their favorite people had NOT yet been kidnapped by aliens.  

Because they were still writing to the crossover tone, they didn't make the very natural adjustment to fit the emotional impact on most of the Arrow characters or the crossover guests.  Even though Felicity stayed focused, everyone around her was so nonreactive to the seriousness of what was happening that I bet many didn't even realize she wasn't just joking around with the rest of them.  It was all made so much more egregious since this was Arrow's 100th episode and so not only did we end up with our Arrow regulars split up and isolated from each other on their 100th episode, half of them weren't even acting like they were in an Arrow episode.

It was just so hugely disappointing how much focus Arrow lost to keep the 100th part of the big crossover event.  It ended up serving not to honor the whole show, but just a narrow slice and we can't get that back.  I think that has driven a lot of the bitterness toward the crossovers as well.  

I do watch all the shows and I do find plenty to enjoy in the crossovers but I also have to really work hard not to be frustrated by how OCC they end up writing many of the characters and how out of step they often feel within the scope of the season. Plus I don't find bigger fights to be better fights. If they get the emotional tone wrong, then everything is wrong.  

I want to enjoy the crossover but there will always be winners and losers in who is being best served in the crossover and Arrow hasn't come out the winner the last couple years.  

Edited August 14, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Trini]

9 hours ago, tv echo said:

Still no Arrow directing gig yet...

I mean, do y'all want  him to direct? He clearly has his favorites.

----------

As for a possible wedding, I think it's fair game to talk about it in this thread if it's going to happen in the crossovers, and involve and affect characters from the other shows.