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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
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Featherhat

Featherhat

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Why didn't they give her a more "athletic" job if she was to be BC? We're they aiming for the Rachel Dawes character by making her a lawyer?

I think they were definitely going for a Rachel Dawes character, especially since this version of Arrow borrowed heavily from Nolan's trilogy. Crusading for Justice within with Law vs Vigilante, known each other from childhood but have a complicated connection, often antagonistic towards the main character and then her self defense skills were supposed to show she had the capability of becoming the BC later. Problem was IMO they actors had little chemistry, Quentin slipped into the role of Vilgilantism vs legal policing/justice and for me KC was never convincing as BC whilst in the mean time they cast the perfect Canary and sold a much stronger connection to Oliver (not necessarily romantic of course ) via their similarly damaged personalities and need to stop being assassins and start being more heroic.

Even if KC is coming back as a regular villain it doesn't have to be every episode. How often do QL and TQ appear? And villains often take episodes off for weeks at a time. The only problem is if they try to sell a redemption arc and move her back into TA or god forbid, another attempt at being main LI, then they are definitely back where they started. I'm not sure I buy such an amazing contract for KC, but it's possible. Someone high up definitely likes her though. I can't decide whether that means the EPs who may not have wanted her back will write her minimally or if TPTB will want BS featured as much as possible.

As for Sara, I don't think the writers considered the implications of the WC name at the time, I guess the just wanted to give her a canon name and parallel to BC. I don't think the writers on the show particularly like it since it's used like once a season and she rarely suits up for missions. She couldn't have been Green Canary for obvious reasons, Blue Canary. It would have been a better colour on CL anyway.

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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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Mellowyellow

Mellowyellow

I really liked Rachel Dawes. Both versions of her. If they were going to copy her they should have gone for a straight up movie copy instead of this very angry mean scowling woman who was supposed to be the epic love interest.

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

4 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Why didn't they give her a more "athletic" job if she was to be BC? We're they aiming for the Rachel Dawes character by making her a lawyer?

Do you guys know if she was always meant to be BC or just the love interest? 

Her BC origin story was silly right up there with Mr Terrible Curtis! They should have tried harder! Even Thea was off to be trained by Malcolm who was LoA.

Common sense, not this shows strong suit. Laurel should've been let in on the secret at the end of S1/beginning of S2 and been training. But thats fanfic world now.

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shadow2008

shadow2008

8 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Never setting foot on the set is a bit too drastic for me to believe but I can 't help believe they did not have any intention of an on going return.  The change in rhetoric by the show runners appeared too drastic for me not to believe that.  I mean, MG near flat out said that good lawyers was the reason for KC's reoccuring contract.  

I keep hearing about this, but I never saw the actual quote. Does anyone have a link to that comment?

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FurryFury

FurryFury

3 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

I really liked Rachel Dawes. Both versions of her. If they were going to copy her they should have gone for a straight up movie copy instead of this very angry mean scowling woman who was supposed to be the epic love interest.

Wow, you're, like, the first person I've encountered who likes Rachel Dawes...

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Some LoT posts at https://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/ on Apr. 10...

tatjash asked:
Hello! Why nobody hugs Rip? I understand that they didn't hug him when he'll back himself (not even Ray) because he killed Sara and he made bad things. But when he's leaving in last episode, Why Sara just shake his hands? In Arrow she hugs her friends and family when she says goodbye. I thought that they was friends and she was so worried when they lost him first time and in doomworld too... I confess that I have my shipper theory, but I'll not ask about that because I can be wrong. Thank you.
Rip just isn’t a hugger.  Maybe it’s a British thing.

tatjash asked:
Crazy idea. How fun would it be to have Cupid in a episode of Legends of Tomorrow and she will "fall in love" with Mick? Poor Mick but I love Cupid, she's so... special, hahahaha! Amy Gumenick is awesome.
Totally agree with you.

sarathecanarybest asked:
Hi Marc, are you going to answer some questions about Sara Lance, she is a great character, thanks for keeping her in to the Arrowverse! Is Sara going to have a big storyline next season of Legends of tomorrow, will we see some flashbacks of how she became the Canary? Any chance to see her on Arrow again for few eps?
I’m still dying to tell the story of how Nyssa found her on Lian Yu and brought her into the League of Assassins. 

thevengeanceknight asked:
Just curious, did you guys consider having Dinah Lance Sr./Alex Kingston suit up as Black Canary, if not in the "main" Earth then possibly an alternate Earth?
Maybe in Legends?

smoakinelli asked:
Thanks for giving Sara closure with Earth-1 Laurel's death. It was really necessary and thanks for not making her pull a Barry Allen and screwing everything up - time wise.
You’re welcome!

oilversqueen asked:
One of my favorite episodes was "Star City 2046" will we ever see a prequel or a follow up to that episode?
We talk about a follow-up a lot.  I’d love to do it!

Edited by tv echo
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statsgirl

statsgirl

9 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Why didn't they give her a more "athletic" job if she was to be BC? We're they aiming for the Rachel Dawes character by making her a lawyer?

MG loves Nolan's Batman so definitely Rachel Dawes.  The problem is that if they were planning on having her become the Black Canary, and everything  says they were at that point, leaving it at "she took self-defense classes because her cop father made her" was wholly inadequate.  One presumes Sara also took those classes but it took five more years with the LoA before she learned adequate Canary fighting skills. At the least they should have said she took martial arts classes for concentration to be better in her studies/law practice as well as for relaxation.

3 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

https://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/post/151642475624/im-just-curious-sir-was-it-your-idea-to-bring 

I remember this..but he definitely talked about her deal in interviews too at the time and I couldn't say what he exactly said..I skimmed read them at best.

It really seems like the EPs had decided to end Laurel as Oliver's OTP and were looking around for another love interest within the first few episodes of s1, but were they still planning on making her the Black Canary?  In s2 MG and AK said that Sara was part of Laurel's path to becoming the Black Canary but it doesn't make sense to give Sara all the comics BC traits and story knowing they were going to get rid of her after the season.

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Midnight Lullaby

Midnight Lullaby

8 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

MG loves Nolan's Batman so definitely Rachel Dawes.  The problem is that if they were planning on having her become the Black Canary, and everything  says they were at that point, leaving it at "she took self-defense classes because her cop father made her" was wholly inadequate.  One presumes Sara also took those classes but it took five more years with the LoA before she learned adequate Canary fighting skills. At the least they should have said she took martial arts classes for concentration to be better in her studies/law practice as well as for relaxation.

It really seems like the EPs had decided to end Laurel as Oliver's OTP and were looking around for another love interest within the first few episodes of s1, but were they still planning on making her the Black Canary?  In s2 MG and AK said that Sara was part of Laurel's path to becoming the Black Canary but it doesn't make sense to give Sara all the comics BC traits and story knowing they were going to get rid of her after the season.

I remember reading they didn't get a positive feedback on Oliver/Laurel at the beginning..I don't remember if it was from the test audience or from who else though..so I guess it makes sense if they looked for alternatives since they couldn't recast Laurel.

The thing about Sara/Laurel is messy because I remember them talking about Sara as the BC openly..then later they said she was part of Laurel's journey but was it in season 2?

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statsgirl

statsgirl

6 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

The thing about Sara/Laurel is messy because I remember them talking about Sara as the BC openly..then later they said she was part of Laurel's journey but was it in season 2?

Yes, sometime in s6 one of the EPs (AK?) was saying that don't worry, Laurel will still be the Black Canary, Sara is just part of her journey but I can't remember if it was at the beginning of the season (suggesting they hadn't realized how awesome Sara was going to be) or at the end (suggesting that they had had word from above that the pre-pilot plan was still a go).

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

32 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I remember reading they didn't get a positive feedback on Oliver/Laurel at the beginning..I don't remember if it was from the test audience or from who else though..so I guess it makes sense if they looked for alternatives since they couldn't recast Laurel.

The thing about Sara/Laurel is messy because I remember them talking about Sara as the BC openly..then later they said she was part of Laurel's journey but was it in season 2?

IIRC, they screened the pilot episode at SCCC 2012 and the feedback for Lauiver, LL was negative. There was also questions/comments about how Oliver could know so much about computers after being stranded for 5 years (which is why they introduced a computer wiz for Oliver to use in 103)

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statsgirl

statsgirl

12 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

It was definitely messy. Mainly because they didn't even inform KC of their plans before it was announced. 

Which plan?  The one to bring on Sara as the Canary?  She should really have been told about that.

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Chaser

Chaser

(edited)

I thought they did tell her? I remember something about a meeting.

I want to say they told her after everything was arranged, but before they announced it.

Edited by Chaser
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leopardprint

leopardprint

(edited)

Looking back, you can really tell how they ignored setting up a natural progression for LL to BC. They hewed way too closely to the Batman Begins storyline especially since Rachel Dawes never became a mask so shoehorning her background into the BC narrative really makes no sense. They should have known that from the beginning. She should have been a police officer or FBI if they wanted to keep her lawyerish. I think they are incredibly shortsighted in general and sacrifice long term planning for "cool" comic book moments except when they should abandon their plan (William, Susan...)

Additionally, the RD character was a childhood best friend right? Not a girlfriend the hero treated horribly and ran off with her sister on? LL could have been OQ's BFF who he secretly loved then. It's like they took the worst elements of the BC storyline (cheating) and the worst elements of RD (boring, self righteous lawyer) and smashed them together to create Laurel Lance. I honestly cannot think of an epic, legendary modern TV romance that has cheating as canon and where the LI is kinda justified in hating the hero? Maybe they did realize that LL/OQ was a failure and sabotaged it. 

Edited by leopardprint
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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

21 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Which plan?  The one to bring on Sara as the Canary?  She should really have been told about that.

To bring in Canary in the 2nd season. She said she was basically blind sided by it and wasn't sure what they planned on doing but that she trusted their storytelling.

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kismet

kismet

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

Thanks for posting that. I remember watching the finale and thinking the same thing as the tweeter. I did remember the rule after the fact towards the end of the episode. But my mind was rusty as to why we could hang out with younger Legends, but not present Legends. As time travel rules go, it does make sense that they can visit anytime, but going back to a specific time point they already visited might cause trouble. It's almost like swiss cheese model of causation. Where everything is protected by certain layers but each layers have some flaws, so if all the holes line up it can cause an accident or mistake to happen.

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yellowfred

yellowfred

11 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

I honestly cannot think of an epic, legendary modern TV romance that has cheating as canon and where the LI is kinda justified in hating the hero? Maybe they did realize that LL/OQ was a failure and sabotaged it. 

I think it's giving the writers too much credit to think that they intentionally sabotaged anything.  I think they wanted to give Laurel and Oliver a backstory where he'd have to prove that he'd changed before they could be together again.  I don't think they realized that they went too far until it was too late.  Not to mention, I honestly think that the backstory could have been less of an issue if there was better writing for them in their present-day interactions.  Or, if Oliver didn't look like he was in physical pain whenever they had a scene together.  

Like, I would kind of compare them to Luke Cage and Jessica Jones on Netflix.  There's obviously a pretty awful backstory there, and I think Luke is totally justified in not wanting anything to do with her once he finds out, but I'd still root for them, more or less, because I can buy their connection.  Of course, there, since he has his own show, his place in the narrative isn't dependent on whether or not he forgives her, which is something that couldn't be said for Laurel.  

On 4/10/2017 at 7:27 AM, kismet said:

But the show went out of Its way to make sure to never call her BC.

I wouldn't say they went "out of their way."  In season 2, code names weren't really a thing.  Oliver had only just started going by "the Arrow" instead of "the Hood," and that only worked because Felicity told Quentin that that's what he was going by, and he presumably told the police/media/whoever.  Like, at that point, Oliver still didn't go by that in the field.  Oliver called Roy "Speedy" one time to calm him down, but he was still mostly just "Roy."  Sara was always just "Sara" to the team or "the woman in black" to people who didn't know who she was.  "Canary" was her league name, and no one called her that (in English) until the second to last episode of the season.  Basically, I don't think they made a point of not calling her "Black Canary," they just didn't.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Regarding comments upthread about Sara being cast as the BC versus Sara being just part of Laurel's journey toward becoming the BC (also some KC 'oldies but goodies' comments)...

The Wrap report (Jul. 18, 2013):

Quote

"The Pact" star Caity Lotz is set to play the Black Canary on The CW's "Arrow," TheWrap has learned.

While the Black Canary will start out as a recurring role, Lotz is expected to eventually become a series regular, as her character will be groomed as a love interest for Arrow (Stephen Amell).

TV Guide interview with Andrew Kreisberg (Jul. 19, 2013):

Quote

Arrow fans were thrown for a loop Thursday night after reports surfaced that The CW series had cast the Black Canary.

The Pact's Caity Lotz has, in fact, been tapped for a recurring role on Arrow's second season, but she won't be playing Dinah Drake, TVGuide.com can exclusively reveal.

"There's been a bit of misinformation printed out there and what I would say is, yes, Caity Lotz is joining the show in a recurring role and we're really excited," executive producer Andrew Kreisberg tells us. "She's a tremendously talented actress. The character she's playing is really the beginning of the story of the Black Canary."

The fact that Lotz's character, whose name Kreisberg declined to reveal, has a connection to the Black Canary has worried fans who believed that Katie Cassidy's Laurel Lance would fill that role, as the comics dictate. But Kreisberg wants to set the record straight. "The character that Caity is portraying is the beginning of the Black Canary story and we're really excited for the fans to go on the journey with us," he says. "So much of our show is about defying expectations, meeting expectations and exceeding expectations, and we really want our fans to experience the show by watching it and enjoying it and enjoying all the twists and turns and surprises the way we intend."
*  *  *
As for what this means for Laurel, Kreisberg says, "Everyone knows that Laurel Lance is the Black Canary. That's the way it is in the comic books, but how we get from A to B is the story of our show. In the same way that Oliver, when we meet him, is the vigilante, but this season he's going to becoming the Arrow, that's the step of his journey to eventually becoming the Green Arrow. Laurel Lance right now is a lawyer with a lot of heart and a lot of humanity and courage. But it takes more than that to put on the mask and go out and fight crime. Our series is the evolution of that. People will see how Caity Lotz fits into Laurel's journey along the way. For us, it's very emotional and surprising and exciting. I would say to everybody, we haven't let you down so far. Keep going on this ride with us."

DC Comics report (Dec. 3, 2013):

Quote

Of course, anyone who knows comic books and particularly Green Arrow comics knows that “the Canary” is shorthand for Black Canary—Birds of Prey front woman, occasional Oliver Queen paramour and one of the most well-known female characters in comics.
*  *  *
The biggest and most obvious question. In the comics, Black Canary’s real identity is Dinah Lance (who goes by her middle name Laurel on the show). But in the episode “Crucible,” we discover that Arrow’s Black Canary is actually Sara Lance, Laurel’s little sister. So is Laurel destined to become the Canary at some point, or will Arrow’s version of the character remain content to watch all the super heroics from the sidelines?

Entertainment Weekly interview with Katie Cassidy (May 15, 2014):

Quote

Cassidy on how being the Canary would affect Laurel’s chances with Ollie: “I think that she really embraced the fact that he’s the Arrow, and it made her love him so much more and it made sense going with the comics that she becomes this Canary, because Canary and Arrow are together. We’ll see though. You never know what the writers are going to write.”

The Hollywood Reporter interview with Katie Cassidy (Oct. 15, 2014):

Quote

What's Laurel's mindset like after Sara's death?
Her sister is a huge part of Laurel's journey from season one to season three. The thing that is so great about our show is that it takes place in different times. We have characters like Colin Donnell, who we bring back sometimes in flashback episodes [as Tommy], and Caity Lotz [who plays Sara] is a wonderful actress and very much a big part of this season. Laurel is growing and becoming stronger, and I think that there is a possibility she may pick up a few characteristics from her sister. Or who knows, her sister may be alive, I don't know! (Laughs.) Having said that, it's television, anything can happen.
*  *  *
In the premiere, Oliver and Laurel had established the perfect system, working in tandem to put away the bad guys. I imagine with Sara's death, that threatens that. Where do they go from here?
The thing I've always felt and thought about Laurel and Oliver, since we shot the pilot, and this is just my take on it, they're soul mates. To me, she knows him better than he knows himself and vice versa. Yes, she was not clued in on the whole Arrow thing [at the beginning], but at the same time, she had a thing for the Arrow, and as Tommy says in the end of season one, "Oliver is the person you think he is." She always tried to see the best of him and always thought the world of him, though there was the playboy side that she struggled with. It's interesting because Stephen [Amell] and I have this relationship. The thing that I love about Laurel is that she's so strong and she's not afraid to stand up to Oliver or the Arrow. She's very firm and she's very straightforward. Stephen and I are good friends, and for whatever reason, that's the relationship [we have] offscreen and onscreen. I don't want to say that [Oliver and Laurel] are equals, but there's a certain amount of respect there. I don't know necessarily if Oliver will be on board with Laurel transitioning and going on this journey of fighting and training. You'll have to watch. But he'll see the warrior in her that Ted Grant sees in her.
*  *  *
Last season, it was revealed that Oliver may have fathered a child, and Stephen hinted at New York Comic Con that it will be mentioned this season. Hypothetically speaking, if Laurel were to come across this piece of information how would she take it?
It depends on what stage they're at in their relationship. If they are not romantically involved... she'll take it differently. Either way, she's going to be pissed. (Laughs.) Because of how she is. A.) She has been kept in the dark about something else; and B.) That he could be so irresponsible, she would take that into consideration. At the end of the day, if anyone can forgive, Laurel has the strength to do that and she's a good person. She wants to see the best in everyone. It'll be another card she'll have to deal with. But having said all of that, the Arrow does need a Canary in some aspects.

IGN interview with Katie Cassidy (Oct. 15, 2014):

Quote

IGN: You were talking about her going out and looking for revenge and possibly growing stronger from that. I know everyone is often talking about Laurel’s transition into maybe becoming the Black Canary later down the line. Is this something that could lead in that direction?
Cassidy: I can definitely tell you that it’s the Green Arrow and the Green Arrow needs the Black Canary. Aside from saying that, and the fact that I think the fans and the fans of the comic book and the fans of Laurel, I think that they’re going to be very happy. She seems to be sort of starting down that path. She is involved with Ted Grant and starting to box. I think it will probably continue down that, towards that direction. You have to watch Season 3!
*  *  *
IGN: So with that arc, her growing stronger and Sara’s death, do you think that will have an effect on Laurel’s relationship with Oliver?
Cassidy: Yeah, absolutely. I’ve always said that I think the two of them, from when we shot the pilot, are soulmates. Even though romantically they may not be together at the moment, or at this time in their lives, I think Laurel knows Oliver better than he knows himself. I think that she out of anyone isn’t afraid to stand up to him or call him out or get in his face. She’s very strong, very secure and mentally I do think that she is a warrior inside and a survivor and it takes somebody who’s that strong and that driven, given everything that we’ve seen her go through since Season 1. You have to be a very strong person to deal with all of this. I think that he, at first, will probably not be supportive because he doesn’t want to put her in danger but I think ultimately he will see that she has the mentality and that she’s dedicated and she’s willing to start from the bottom and learn the basics and do the training and she actually has what it takes. I think, hopefully, eventually he will end up respecting that and accepting it. Who knows? Maybe they’ll move forward together as a team. Partner in crime? I don’t know but it definitely would be cool.

The Mary Sue interview with Caity Lotz (Jan. 15, 2015):

Quote

On Arrow and Black Canary

Q: When Arrow first came out, nobody quite knew what to expect, and I would say that there was a lot of reluctance before it came out, because you don’t know what CW is going to deliver, where you aware of that/did you feel some of that?

Lotz: Well, I think if you’re not a comic book fan people don’t know who Green Arrow is, people don’t know who the Black Canary is, and I think that’s actually cool because everyone knows who Batman is, everyone knows Superman—you know those stories, and for [Arrow] to come to TV for the majority of people who aren’t into the comic book scene, it was a whole new world. So, it’s cool that that gets to get onto a more mainstream level; I think that was really fun. But, there’s also, I noticed, a lot of pressure that you’re playing this character and everybody [who] knows this character [is expecting] a lot from it, you know, and I get it. If you grew up reading the Black Canary comics, and it’s going to be put on TV, you don’t want somebody coming on and ruining that vision that’s been in your head for so long, so there’s a lot of, I feel, responsibility to do that justice.
*  *  *
Q: Do you actually read the comic books?

Lotz: I didn’t before, but once I got the part they sent me a bunch of the Black Canary and Green Arrow comics, and the Birds of Prey, and I started reading those and it’s a lot of fun!

The Wrap report (Jan. 11, 2015):

Quote

“I wasn’t in charge of invitations for this panel,” Kreisberg joked. “We’re blessed, we have so many great female superheroes and villains. We have Caity Lotz, the original Canary, Katrina Law [as Nyssa], we have Rila Fukushima who plays Tatsu, who will become Katana before the end of the season.”

Edited by tv echo
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statsgirl

statsgirl

11 minutes ago, tv echo said:

But Kreisberg wants to set the record straight. "The character that Caity is portraying is the beginning of the Black Canary story and we're really excited for the fans to go on the journey with us," he says. "So much of our show is about defying expectations, meeting expectations and exceeding expectations, and we really want our fans to experience the show by watching it and enjoying it and enjoying all the twists and turns and surprises the way we intend."
*  *  *
As for what this means for Laurel, Kreisberg says, "Everyone knows that Laurel Lance is the Black Canary. That's the way it is in the comic books, but how we get from A to B is the story of our show. In the same way that Oliver, when we meet him, is the vigilante, but this season he's going to becoming the Arrow, that's the step of his journey to eventually becoming the Green Arrow. Laurel Lance right now is a lawyer with a lot of heart and a lot of humanity and courage. But it takes more than that to put on the mask and go out and fight crime. Our series is the evolution of that. People will see how Caity Lotz fits into Laurel's journey along the way. For us, it's very emotional and surprising and exciting. I would say to everybody, we haven't let you down so far. Keep going on this ride with us."

So I guess Sara was always a place-saver to give the show a masked woman to fight alongside Oliver until Laurel was ready.

But it was crazy to give Sara so much of the origin story that Laurel should have had.

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Cleanqueen

Cleanqueen

(edited)
Quote

In the premiere, Oliver and Laurel had established the perfect system, working in tandem to put away the bad guys. I imagine with Sara's death, that threatens that. Where do they go from here?
The thing I've always felt and thought about Laurel and Oliver, since we shot the pilot, and this is just my take on it, they're soul mates. To me, she knows him better than he knows himself and vice versa. Yes, she was not clued in on the whole Arrow thing [at the beginning], but at the same time, she had a thing for the Arrow, and as Tommy says in the end of season one, "Oliver is the person you think he is." She always tried to see the best of him and always thought the world of him, though there was the playboy side that she struggled with. It's interesting because Stephen [Amell] and I have this relationship. The thing that I love about Laurel is that she's so strong and she's not afraid to stand up to Oliver or the Arrow. She's very firm and she's very straightforward. Stephen and I are good friends, and for whatever reason, that's the relationship [we have] offscreen and onscreen. I don't want to say that [Oliver and Laurel] are equals, but there's a certain amount of respect there. I don't know necessarily if Oliver will be on board with Laurel transitioning and going on this journey of fighting and training. You'll have to watch. But he'll see the warrior in her that Ted Grant sees in her.

tumblr_mbrbisTVpr1rno750o1_500.gif

Edited by Cleanqueen
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Midnight Lullaby

Midnight Lullaby

(edited)

Reading the old interviews thinking about the mess they did with the BC on Arrow is hilarious. They killed the original Canary, that also was their best attempt at the character, to make another woman BC, only to kill her and replace her with another woman that coincidentally is called like the first two women's mother. LMAO. #fail

Edited by Midnight Lullaby
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Sunshine

Sunshine

9 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

So I guess Sara was always a place-saver to give the show a masked woman to fight alongside Oliver until Laurel was ready.

But it was crazy to give Sara so much of the origin story that Laurel should have had.

I think they liked what they saw with Sara and just got carried away with their shiny new toy at the time.

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

1 hour ago, leopardprint said:

Birds of Prey was before my time and I never saw the BC on Smallville. Has there been a successful live action interpretation of her? It seems like Sara is it. 

Well even in Birds of Prey, Dinah wasnt even anything like her comic counterpart. She was a telepath or something and her mother was the Black Canary who was retired. On Smallville she was just a guest star who was ok but they never put any effort into her and had Chloe beat her in combat. 

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LeighAn

LeighAn

3 hours ago, Cleanqueen said:

tumblr_mbrbisTVpr1rno750o1_500.gif

Katie Cassidys head canons being the polar opposite of anything happening on screen will never not be funny.

Ten bucks she makes some hilarious head canons about Black Siren and Oliver and their (non exsistent) special loving connection in interviews as well next season. 

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

If I recall correctly, AK was also the one that claimed that they always intended to resurrect Sara (after her death in season three), so I tend to be deeply skeptical of his claims that Sara was supposed to be part of Laurel's journey to BC.  In my personal opinion, that was damage control, after the president of the CW let the cat out of the bag regarding Sara's casting.  

They went about it entirely wrong if they intended to link Laurel's journey to Sara, and that's why I'm skeptical.  Laurel was sidelined for a good part of 2A.  She didn't even appear in a couple of episodes.  In the meantime, Sara makes connections with Oliver, Team Arrow, and her father, not to mention her appearance in the flashbacks.   The very easy way to link Sara to Laurel would have been to have Laurel be the woman rescued by the mysterious woman in black in the season premiere, and instead of Laurel being obsessed with bringing down the Arrow, instead have her obsessed with hunting down and finding out the identity of her rescuer.  Have her be the one to discover Sara's alive, rather than Quentin.  That puts her in the middle of the story, rather than on the sidelines.  But they didn't do that.  As @Sakura12 pointed out, Sara and Laurel don't even meet until episode 13.

And it wasn't a matter of them getting carried away as the season went along.  They gave Sara pretty much everything in the first half of the season; the costume, the skills, the Canary cry grenades, the Clocktower, Sin....  not to mention a season-long backstory arc in the flashbacks.   They went way way way overboard for just a "proto-Canary".  It boggles the mind that they would have done all of that knowing they were just going to have to redo it all for Laurel.  I don't buy it - sorry.

Edited by Starfish35
Clarification
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Featherhat

Featherhat

22 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Katie Cassidys head canons being the polar opposite of anything happening on screen will never not be funny.

Ten bucks she makes some hilarious head canons about Black Siren and Oliver and their (non exsistent) special loving connection in interviews as well next season. 

Oh I'm counting on it.

And from some of the producers about redeeming BS and LL's "legacy". Oliver theoretically getting together with E2 BS and having a do over with her becoming BC etc is much worse than the sister swapping so no doubt that's the director they'll head for.

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LeighAn

LeighAn

Wendy might have some creative quotes but I'm not too worried about Marc. He's already referred to Black Siren as an antagonist. And in that interview at WonderCon he said that Black Siren and Oliver will NEVER happen due to lack of chemistry between Katie and Stephen. 

I think they are going to make Siren their answer to calls for a female Villan by having her being partnered with whoever is the Big Bad next season. I'm really not convinced in the slightest just yet that they are redeeming her. Plus the paps have said from what their sources have told them she's a Villan next season and that Katies standing in the cast line up has gone from number 2 position to number 42 i.e meaning not a massive role.

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LeighAn

LeighAn

(edited)
11 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

There's no way to know how big her role will be next season yet. They seem to have gotten the general idea down but nothing beyond them that unless they've already started writing for S6. 

I'm just quoting the pap who was saying Katie was going to be a regular weeks before it was announced. When  someone tweeted him asking if it meant Black Siren was going to join Team Arrow he tweeted back "She's gone from no.2 to no.42 on the show"

And KenPursuit said he's heard she's a Villan next season and that she won't get a hero arc.

Now the paps could be jumping the gun and talking out their asses. I assumed as much earlier in the season when they said Emily wasn't filming at the Queen mansion during 100th and they it turned out she was. But for every one time they get it wrong nine times out of ten what they say turns out to be accurate. So I guess we will just have to see next season if what their sources have told them holds up *shrug*

Edited by LeighAn
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LeighAn

LeighAn

Considering season 6 is already according to Marc in the mapping out stage and is probably a few weeks out from being scripted it depends where their source is placed and how far up within the show. If it's someone up high enough to know what's being discussed for next season or not.

I mean weren't they trying to convince people that Laurel was in the grave months before it actually happened as well? 

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statsgirl

statsgirl

I'm sure they've started mapping s6 and know who Vigilante is etc but with this group, to say that there's many a slip between the cup and the lip is an understatement.

40 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I think they are going to make Siren their answer to calls for a female Villan by having her being partnered with whoever is the Big Bad next season.

Having her in the Lady Macbeth role might be interesting.

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leopardprint

leopardprint

(edited)

Has there been a solo female villain with an arc (not a monster of the week) on LOT? None of the shows have had one right, even Supergirl? Talia is basically like Chase's supervisor, so she's a bust in that sense. Isabel answered to Slade. Helena was more of an anti-hero. Can we get a female villain who is not an assistant or a scorned love interest? 

Edited by leopardprint
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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

Yeah Supergirl had Astra last season and Rhea (Teri Hatcher's character) this season.  But no, none of the other three shows have had a long-term female villain.

Edited by Starfish35
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Starfish35

Starfish35

1 minute ago, Primal Slayer said:

Yes and Mama Luthor. 2 Female villains as the big bad this year.

Oh yeah, I can't believe I forgot her!

Since you reminded me of Lillian, I have a question for the comics fans.  Are Lionel and Lillian comics canon names for Lex's parents, or did Supergirl borrow those from Smallville?  Because I always thought Smallville's Lionel was pretty much an OC.

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