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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
in Arrow

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GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

HAH! I'm doing the same thing, @tennisgurl!?

I just wanted to go back to when the show had good villains and the original team Arrow dynamic. Just finished watching the introduction of Barry, who was beyond adorkable in his geekiness and hero worship of Arrow.???

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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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tennisgurl

tennisgurl

(edited)

Awesome! Re-watch high five @GHScorpiosRule *high fives over internet*!!!

Original Team Arrow, cool villains, the League of Assassins actually being intimidating, its good times.

Its also funny to go back to when the weirdest stuff in this universe was an Earthquake machine and a League of Assassins. "League of Assassins? That sounds ridiculous!" Oh buddy. You still have multiple super serums, a resurrection pit, time travel, artificial intelligence, interdimensional portals, super powers, magic, super suits, crazy sci fi weapons, telepathic gorillas, and aliens to look forward too!

Edited by tennisgurl
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

John Barrowman Reveals Whether or Not He Would Appear in a Disney Live-Action Remake
Jenna Anderson- 04/02/2017
http://comicbook.com/movies/2017/04/02/john-barrowman-disney-live-action-film/

Quote

Barrowman was asked about it during his panel at this weekend's Fan Expo Dallas, and ComicBook.com was there to catch his answer.

"I'd love to do a Disney live action movie." Barrowman revealed. "I really would. It's just a question of what ones they're going to do now because of the massive success they've had with Beauty and the Beast, which I thought was awesome. I sat like a kid in a candy store watching it."
*  *  *
"I don't know [which character I would want to play]." Barrowman admitted. "I don't have an answer to that, but it's always been a dream of mine to be in a Disney film. And whether it's a voice, or if it was Disney live action, so because of that movie, I think there's going to be plenty of Disney live action movies coming out, maybe with animated animals, all that sort of stuff. I don't know. But fingers crossed."

Disney is currently developing adaptations of The Lion King, Mulan, and Aladdin, with several more live action remakes planned in the future, so there's certainly plenty of options for Barrowman to lend his talents to. 

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Some b-t-s trivia...

Casting director David Rapaport said that Lili Reinhart (Betty on Riverdale) originally auditioned for the Thea role on the Arrow pilot when Lili was 14 years old ("she wasn't right for the Thea role when she was 14"), and that Melissa Benoist also auditioned for the Thea role back then.  In addition, he said that Madelaine Petsch (Cheryl Blossom on Riverdale) auditioned for a role on the LoT 1950's episode and didn't get it, but Rapaport remembered her when auditioning actors for Riverdale...

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I'm pretty sure that I wrote a post some time ago (posted in this thread) about how the DC movies were missing the three 'H's - but I believe my three 'H's were Heart, Humor and Humility...

The Three Things Missing From DC Movies, According To DC
BY DIRK LIBBEY April 2, 2017
http://www.cinemablend.com/news/1642609/the-three-things-missing-from-dc-movies-according-to-dc

Quote

The DC film universe has been criticized from many corners for its perceived failings. Now, some of the people directly involved in making those movies have admitted that there have been things lacking in their first films. During a panel at Wondercon this weekend, DC's head of creative Geoff Johns and Wonder Woman director Patty Jenkins were on a panel together where the two agreed that there were three things that DC movies need. We can call them the three Hs.

Quote

Johns and Jenkins agree that DC movies need “Heart, humor, and heroics” #WonderCon
— Batman-News.com (@BatmanNewsCom) April 2, 2017

By claiming that "heart, humor, and heroics" are three things that that DC films need, there is a tacit, if not a direct, admission that the films are currently without those things. One assumes that with Patty Jenkins there, the implication is that Wonder Woman has all three of these key elements. Batman News also reported from Wondercon that two clips from the upcoming film were shown. One was a fight scene, which we can assume was designed to show off the heroics. The other was the scene where Diana and Steve Trevor arrive in London. We've seen a moment from this scene in the trailers where Diana mentions how terrible London looks, so this scene was clearly meant to show the film's heart and humor.
*  *  *
As they say, the first step to overcoming a problem is admitting that you have one. If Geoff Johns and Patty Jenkins both agree that DC movies need heart, humor, and heroics, then we can believe that at the very least Wonder Woman was designed to have all of them. The real question, however, is what's going to be the final verdict on Justice League? That movie is being put together by most of the same folks that were responsible for Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice. If you felt that last year's film lacked humor or heart, what are the odds that you'll feel the same way about Justice League? We'll find out when the film debuts this November.

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)
On 4/18/2016 at 10:59 AM, tv echo said:

It's funny that I came across that Nick Spake article (posted above) that talks about how Felicity injected humor and heart into Arrow.  Recently, I was thinking about the differences between DC superhero movies and Marvel superhero movies.

Much has been written/said about how the DC movies are 'darker' while the Marvel movies are 'lighter'.  As far as I can tell, that distinction only applies literally - in a darker color palette and darker lighting - but not figuratively or metaphorically.  Both universes deal with dark themes and dark story lines.  Both have involved losses. Indeed, a superhero movie necessarily must have some darkness in order to set up the conflict - something bad that spurs or inspires the hero to act, and then the ultimate battle of good versus evil.  However, the Marvel movies are currently doing a better job of counterbalancing the darkness with lighter elements.  I call them the 3H's - Humor, Heart and Hope.  

From the promos, Captain America: Civil War will turn friend against friend.  The clear analogy is to the American Civil War, a really dark time in history when family members and friends literally fought and killed each other - brother vs. brother.  This is not exactly a light, fluff theme.  But again from the promos, the movie looks like it will balance serious discussions and fights with humorous and human moments.  In contrast, BvS had little humor to break up its unrelenting grimness. Hence, the first H is Humor.

Also, the characters must engage the audience.  I want to see the hero as someone real and three-dimensional, with real feelings and real motivations.  When he or she feels pain, it must resonate. And the hero must have a relationship that resonates, whether it's a romance or a bromance.  In Captain America: The First Avenger, there are two heartbreaking scenes: when Bucky falls to this death, and at the end when Steve talks about his date with Peggy while his plane is going down.  We now know that Bucky survives to become the Winter Soldier and that Steve survives to become an Avenger, but Steve and Peggy didn't know at the time.  (And, not being a comics fan, I didn't know that Bucky survived.)  Those two scenes, for me, were more heartbreaking than any scene between Clark & Lois in BvS or any scene between Clark and his father in Man of Steel. Hence, the second H is Heart.

Finally, when I'm watching a superhero movie that's dark and grim, I want to know that there's light at the end of the tunnel.  There has to be a victory or something that makes me want to come back to this fictional universe.  I want a hero that battles through the darkness and emerges into the light. That is what is appealing to me.  Hence, the third H is Hope.

P.S.  I could also add a fourth H - Humility.  In my opinion, BvS sometimes seemed a bit too pretentious (with its God v. man theme, and religious allegorical visuals) and Bruce Wayne came across a bit too arrogant for me.  Zack Snyder and Ben Affleck just take themselves and their movies way too seriously.  In contrast, while Tony Stark is arrogant, he knows that he's arrogant  - and RDJ plays off that arrogance with such charm and charisma that you don't mind.  Then there's the appealing Steve Rogers (as played by Chris Evans), who always remains humble and "a good man."

I found it! Here's my old post. My three 'H's were actually Heart, Humor and Hope, plus a fourth 'H' for Humilty.

Edited by tv echo
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GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

First, Batman v Superman  was an insult and a pile of GARBAGE.

If DC wants to bring in the humor, heart and humility AND heroics? Get rid of whoever is in charge now and bring in Bruce Timm, Paul Dini, Alan Burnett and get them to tell the current self important ASSHOLES who think they know what they're doing, how to do it right. And to stop thinking about beating Marvel and just put out good stories.

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kismet

kismet

As someone who only dabbles in comic community, but watches the movies - I will say that the DC movies missing humor, heart & heroics are pretty much on point. Because that is what does feel is missing from the recent movies in the recent past. It's why I think the Batman Lego movie was so successful because it had all three in abundance. I will also say that Marvel movies do seem to have those 3 Hs better covered.

I was talking with my nephews who are 10 & 12 casually about some of the differences between DC & Marvel movies over the weekend. It was interesting that while they loved the DC heroes better, they actually liked watching Marvel movies more. In their opinion, the DC heroes are superheroes with superpowers, whereas they said that Marvel are just normal people with super technology or stuff that happened to them. They said that there are not any real superpowers in the Marvel heroes. It was an interesting perspective. In their own way, it seemed like Marvel was more relatable to them, they could see themselves in a Marvel movie, but they wanted to be DC superheroes.

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Velocity23

Velocity23

Quote

.but rather than offering reassurance about the fate of Amaya, he instead suggested that fans should get used to these kinds of losses, suggesting that there will be a "similar" moment in tomorrow's finale, and that they're committed to going the full Game of Thrones in season 3 so that fans never have the comfort of assuming that anyone is safe.

“At about minute 32 of tomorrow’s finale, people are going to start asking a lot of similar questions,” Klemmer said. “It’s always been a rule since the Hawkman death [in the pilot], Greg [Berlanti] said it before the show was even a show about how his mission was to make this not like network TV, that no one would be bulletproof, that it was more like the Ned Stark idea of anybody could lose their head at any time. As we’ve been roughly breaking out next season, we’re more committed to that than ever. Again, that’s a really bittersweet thing because we think the dynamic of the characters have is so special and wonderful, and at the same time, you don’t want the audience to become too comfortable on the show. It is supposed to be a wild ride. You need that real consequences and real bloodshed to counterbalance the fluffiness and the silliness of the show. Otherwise it would just float off into space.”

That silliness has been on full display in season 2, much to the delight of fans and critics, who have generally said that the show found its footing this year after a sometimes-rocky first season. And while Klemmer acknowledges that the fun of this year has been key to the show's appeal, he told us that the mission of the week "becomes exponentially more complicated" in the third season.

The season 1 finale saw the death of Captain Cold -- the team member whose resurrection two weeks ago brought with it Mick Rory's betrayal and ultimately the death of Amaya. As the team travels back to 1916 to prevent Rory's betrayal, things could get ugly as one of the cardinal rules of the show's time-travel logic has been that the Legends cannot change events that they themselves have participated in.

“You’re able to go forward or backward in time, but one thing that you can’t do is to hit the rewind button on events that you participated in,” Klemmer explained to reporters shortly before the series launched. “It’s not like Groundhog Day where you can endlessly just do it again and again and again and again until you get it right. If you screw it up, and it ends up with people dying, a member of our team — and people will die on our show — you’re not able to just be like ‘Well, that sucked, let’s try it again.’”

In the season 2 finale, though, that's exactly what they're doing...and it's going to have consequences.

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Lady Calypso

Lady Calypso

Grr. The ones I want safe are Sara, Rip, and Mick for sure. They can touch anyone else, but not those three. But honestly, I don't even want them touching anyone else. I like Amaya and her strength, and she can go and fulfill her destiny at the end of the series if she has to. I really like Jax's role this season and I don't think he could stick around without Stein, or without another Firestorm counterpart. Nate's even ok, when used correctly (though I'd sacrifice him in a heartbeat over everyone else). Ray's alright but I could sacrifice him as well. He's gotten a little too much screen time for my liking, but I've grown to like him as well. 

I have a bad feeling about Mick, though. Which...no, show. Don't you do it. Don't you touch Mick. I do think Sara's 100% safe. I'm a little less certain on Rip, but about 85% sure he's safe too. Ray's probably safe too. Everyone else is more questionable. 

I'm throwing out another candidate in Stein, though. I get the feeling that he could die or just leave the team overall. Mick could die; they're setting up his redemption arc a little too well for things to go perfectly by tomorrow's episode. 

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Velocity23

Velocity23

Quote

“At the beginning of the season, Sara was back to a place of being an assassin, determined to kill Damian Darhk,” executive producer Phil Klemmer tells EW. “As she took on the mantle of leadership, she also learned some of the nuance of time. She’s now a time mistress, she understands the sanctity of time supersedes her own personal agenda.”

However, Sara doesn’t necessarily need to kill Damien. In the wake of Reverse-Flash (Matt Letscher) rewriting reality, creating Doomworld, and subsequently destroying the Spear of Destiny, the Legends will be heading back to WWI in a bid to stop the Legion from obtaining the Spear in the first place, offering the team a chance to rewrite their own version of reality in the finale. “It’s no coincidence that we did the Tolkien episode, it’s no coincidence that we’ll be returning back to the Tolkien episode,” Klemmer teases. “It’s that ring of power, magical totem that can only be wielded by the purest of heart. For all the progress that Sara has made, she’s no Frodo, she still has an enormous amount of scar tissue built up — literal scar tissue and the emotional scar tissue that she’s had in the past four years.”

“That’s the big conundrum for our team,” Klemmer continues. “They go back trying to get the Spear, trying to keep it away from the Legion of Doom, and we know the Legion of Doom shouldn’t have it, but I don’t think any one of our Legends, Sara included, think that they’re qualified to wield it either, which leaves us in a sticky place, where it’s like, ‘Then how do we save the day?’ We’re back to where we were to the JSA: ‘Do we break it up in pieces again? Do we each go hiding in places in time? How are we going to make sure that history doesn’t repeat itself?'”

Whatever the Legends decide, and therefore however the Lance sisters are reunited, Lotz teases that seeing Laurel again will give Sara a sense of closure. “I don’t want to give anything away, but I don’t want to also toy with the fans’ emotions,” Lotz says. “It’s not like a full coming back, but it is a really lovely appearance, and I think people will like it a lot.”

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

17 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Grr. The ones I want safe are Sara, Rip, and Mick for sure. They can touch anyone else, but not those three. But honestly, I don't even want them touching anyone else. I like Amaya and her strength, and she can go and fulfill her destiny at the end of the series if she has to. I really like Jax's role this season and I don't think he could stick around without Stein, or without another Firestorm counterpart. Nate's even ok, when used correctly (though I'd sacrifice him in a heartbeat over everyone else). Ray's alright but I could sacrifice him as well. He's gotten a little too much screen time for my liking, but I've grown to like him as well. 

I have a bad feeling about Mick, though. Which...no, show. Don't you do it. Don't you touch Mick. I do think Sara's 100% safe. I'm a little less certain on Rip, but about 85% sure he's safe too. Ray's probably safe too. Everyone else is more questionable. 

I'm throwing out another candidate in Stein, though. I get the feeling that he could die or just leave the team overall. Mick could die; they're setting up his redemption arc a little too well for things to go perfectly by tomorrow's episode. 

Yeah, I worry about Stein as well.  Especially since I'm sure VG could get work somewhere else in a heartbeat.  He might be ready to do something less demanding of his time or just something different.  They'd have to get a new partner for Jax though.  

Rip could be the big sacrifice that isn't really a big sacrifice but since he was the Time Master, it would create a hole.  The impact of his death would be lessened since we didn't have him most of the season but I'd hate to lose him for good so for me it would be a big jolt.  Plus he was the one tasked with protecting the spear in the first place so I can see him being the one to ultimately make the sacrifice.  :(

I don't want to consider losing Ray and yeah, I just feel confident that Sara isn't going anywhere at least for now.  We do need to get Amaya back though and I'd hate to lose Mick.  There's just no one that is like his character and I have a hard time imagining someone filling that capacity.  (Though suddenly I can imagine enjoying taking one of the villains out of the time stream before they went too bad being a lot of fun.  Imagine DD having to play nice, lol)   

BkWurm1

BkWurm1

9 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I don't watch this show, but the use of "She's now a time mistress" was amusing.

Yeah, that made me laugh.  And then it annoyed me.  Why can't she just be called a Time Master?  Time Mistress sounds like she's Time's side piece or the other woman, though given Sara's love em and leave em habits I suppose could make sense, lol.  

  • Love 5
tennisgurl

tennisgurl

NO LoT writers! You stop that shit right there! I don't want fucking Game of Thrones, I don't need Game of Thrones, I HAVE Game of Thrones! I want interesting and likable characters traveling through time having adventures and working off each other. And you gave us that this season! It was awesome! It was a breath of fresh air after the angst festivals of Arrow and Flash, and the romantic melodrama on Supergirl. You don't have to change it up! You don't need to kill people to have suspense and drama in your show! You can do more with characters when they're alive, then when they're dead! Even the article says that fans and critics have praised the show for its lighter, fun adventures this year, why fix what isn't broken?

Lot is the only show in the Arrowverse where anyone dying would hurt like hell, and leave a hole in the ensemble. Even Nate, who I was pretty meh on at first, has grown on me enough that I would miss him if he wasn't around. Unless one of the actors wants to go, I think it would be stupid to mess up what is alright a really tight ensemble. I guess if they wanted to go full on GoT, they would kill Stein, Sara, or Ray, because they're the characters we have known longest in the Arrowverse, and they would do it in as cruel and brutal a way as possible. However, I don't think they'll kill Sara, after the last time and so much hell was raised. If they get rid of Stein, they'll have to find a new partner for Jax, so that would be a whole thing. If they wanted to repeat Ned in GoT, I guess they would kill Ray, who has become one of the nicest people in the Arrowverse, but good GOD would that be depressing. I think the most likely person to die would be Mick, doing a classic Dying to Redeem Yourself thing. But that would ALSO really suck, because they pretty much did that with Snart last season, and there's really no one on the team like Mick. Damn it, there's no good way out of this!

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

4 minutes ago, Morena said:

hahahaha

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8ftktWWsAANVI7.jpg

That's awesome!  Hee!

36 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Lotz teases that seeing Laurel again will give Sara a sense of closure. “I don’t want to give anything away, but I don’t want to also toy with the fans’ emotions,” Lotz says. “It’s not like a full coming back, but it is a really lovely appearance, and I think people will like it a lot.”

Just wanted to comment on how great I think CL did in addressing this.  I love that she's going out of her way not to trick anyone even if doing so might have brought more viewers.  I feel like she also was the only one that was upfront enough with the fans about Felicity's cameo.  I feel like she's become a trustworthy barometer on how something will play out on the show.  

  • Love 10
SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

She is wonderful! They should consult her on how to handle delicate matters and not sh#t people!

I loved that she posted the extra bts pics with EBR as well. 

She knows how to play the game. The best thing she ever did right after that unfortunate "lunge" back in Season 2 was play up being "friends" with EBR. That took the heat a little off her and SL.

  • Love 4
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

There's more, but I couldn't quote everything...

Legends of Tomorrow boss teases 'so many deaths' in season finale
NATALIE ABRAMS APRIL 3, 2017 AT 5:13PM EDT
http://ew.com/tv/2017/04/03/legends-tomorrow-season-2-finale-spoilers-death/ 

Quote

After Reverse-Flash (Matt Letscher) rewrote reality to create Doomworld and subsequently destroyed the Spear of Destiny, the Legends are now forced to travel back to WWI to prevent the Legion from getting their hands on the Spear in the first place, running the risk of coming into contact with their past selves. The consequences of their actions will lead to “so many deaths,” according to executive producer Phil Klemmer. Below, the Legends boss also teases how their actions will reverberate into season 3, which will include some new team members.
*  *  *
There were a couple of big questions coming out of Doomworld, like whether Stein will get his memory back, whether Amaya is really dead, and whether the team can trust Mick. Will you definitively answer those in the finale?
Definitely. We will deal with all of those things in the finale. It’s definitely not a finale you want to turn off in the last couple minutes. There’s a seismic shift in our show, quite literally, that will give you an idea of what season 3 will look like, but also I don’t think anybody will know what it’s going to look like, because frankly, we don’t quite know what it’s going to look like. The show has always been designed to morph. There’s a big morph moment coming.
*  *  *
What will next season’s Legends team look like? Will you be adding new members?
We do. It’s something akin to the scale of what we did this season. You will not know who the new characters are [in the finale], you’ll have to wait until next year.

Should we expect any death in the finale?
There will be so many deaths! It’s just nothing but death. It’s a wall-to-wall carnage. It’s a meat grinder. It’s more people that I’ve probably killed in my entire television career. It’s ridiculous.

Edited by tv echo
Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

They have two sets of Legends and only one set can continue. So the like GoT is more like they can kill off the doubles of thier characters while the other set is fine. Basically nothing like GoT. 

I expect one of the Sara's to get her head chopped off since that's a death she hasn't had yet. She's drowned, been shot by arrows and bullets, fell onto a garbage dumpster, been poisoned, and had her neck broken. 

Edited by Sakura12
  • Love 5
kismet

kismet

13 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

NO LoT writers! You stop that shit right there! I don't want fucking Game of Thrones, I don't need Game of Thrones, I HAVE Game of Thrones! I want interesting and likable characters traveling through time having adventures and working off each other. And you gave us that this season! It was awesome! It was a breath of fresh air after the angst festivals of Arrow and Flash, and the romantic melodrama on Supergirl. You don't have to change it up! You don't need to kill people to have suspense and drama in your show! You can do more with characters when they're alive, then when they're dead! Even the article says that fans and critics have praised the show for its lighter, fun adventures this year, why fix what isn't broken?

Lot is the only show in the Arrowverse where anyone dying would hurt like hell, and leave a hole in the ensemble. Even Nate, who I was pretty meh on at first, has grown on me enough that I would miss him if he wasn't around. Unless one of the actors wants to go, I think it would be stupid to mess up what is alright a really tight ensemble. I guess if they wanted to go full on GoT, they would kill Stein, Sara, or Ray, because they're the characters we have known longest in the Arrowverse, and they would do it in as cruel and brutal a way as possible. However, I don't think they'll kill Sara, after the last time and so much hell was raised. If they get rid of Stein, they'll have to find a new partner for Jax, so that would be a whole thing. If they wanted to repeat Ned in GoT, I guess they would kill Ray, who has become one of the nicest people in the Arrowverse, but good GOD would that be depressing. I think the most likely person to die would be Mick, doing a classic Dying to Redeem Yourself thing. But that would ALSO really suck, because they pretty much did that with Snart last season, and there's really no one on the team like Mick. Damn it, there's no good way out of this!

Agree. But I know we have been mulling over potential losses on the LoT forum for weeks. None of them are really good options to lose. Nate & Amaya would even be missed, though I could part with them more easily than the others. Sara, Stein & Rip are essentials for me.

Can't we just kill MG's contract with the show? Or how about kill LL/BC/BS off again for good measure and do Arrow a solid??

  • Love 4
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

There's a lot more, esp. for LoT (including a pretty clear spoiler about Mick Rory's fate), but I couldn't quote everything so I focused on Arrow-related quotes...

LEGENDS OF TOMORROW: MARC GUGGENHEIM ON BREAKING THE RULES IN THE SEASON 2 FINALE
Jesse Scheeden   Apr. 3, 2017
http://m.ign.com/articles/2017/04/03/legends-of-tomorrow-marc-guggenheim-on-breaking-the-rules-in-the-season-2-finale

Quote

IGN: Was there talk of maybe incorporating more Arrow-verse characters into the plot besides Felicity, or were you guys worried at some point about that getting in the way of the actual plot?
Guggenheim: Yeah, I mean, we didn't really feel like we had room in the story to revisit a lot of other Arrow-verse characters. We had the idea that, in the Doomworld reality, Amaya and Sara were working for Damien as enforcers. Someone in the room pitched the idea of "What if they're chasing a superhero and it's someone from the Arrow-verse and they kill them?" We talked about a wide variety of different options, but I've always been very vocal about how I have no desire to ever see Felicity suit up and wear a mask. Since this was an alternate reality, I sensed a very unique opportunity to do the thing that, generally speaking, I vowed never to do.

Once we got past that cold open, there wasn't really room for any other cameos, in large part because we were pushing so much story because it was leading into the last episode of the season. There was nothing feasible given the amount of screen time that we had to play with.
*  *  *
IGN: The team is also dealing with the death of Amaya. I imagine there will be some pretty serious consequences for the timeline if they aren't able to prevent her death in this episode.
Guggenheim: Certainly, it's going to screw up the CW TV series and Arrow episode 415 if they can't set things right. I'll say that Nick's reaction to seeing Amaya alive in World War I is really a pivotal moment, and it's a major reason why the plot will unfold the way it does.
*  *  *
IGN: Before we wrap up, I did want to bring up Arrow real quick. This most recent episode ended with Adrian having his secret exposed and going on the run. Does that kind of change the dynamic between Green Arrow and Prometheus next time they meet? Is Adrian more on the defensive now?
Guggenheim: I don't think Chase is ever on the defensive. I think we've made it pretty clear that Chase is playing a very long game. That's not to say that him being outed by Green Arrow was planned. In fact, it's probably the first thing that happened that wasn't according to plan. The reason we did it that way is that it's one thing to show that Chase is formidable by showing how well he plans ahead. But I think it shows how even more formidable he is when you see him react to a setback. And obviously, we still have five more episodes in the season left to go, so there's still plenty more story to tell with Chase. Things are really going to up-end for the next year.

Edited by tv echo
statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

So killing Felicity last week was a sample to get us ready for this week when it's a blood bath?

1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

They have two sets of Legends and only one set can continue. So the like GoT is more like they can kill off the doubles of thier characters while the other set is fine. Basically nothing like GoT.

But if they kill off the second set, does that mean the first would cease to exist

Edited by statsgirl
BkWurm1

BkWurm1

22 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

 

But if they kill off the second set, does that mean the first would cease to exist

No, because by changing the past, they'd change the future so that the ones that died from the future Doomworld would just be the leftover aberrations while the ones from the past timeline going forward would create the new correct and UNBROKEN timeline where there never was a Doomworld and thus they were never there to die.  

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tv echo

(edited)

Legends of Tomorrow EP Talks Finale's 'Significant' Deaths, Sisterly Reunion
By Vlada Gelman / April 3 2017, 2:19 PM PDT
http://tvline.com/2017/04/03/legends-of-tomorrow-spoilers-season-2-finale-deaths-sara-laurel-reunion/

Quote

During Tuesday’s Season 2 finale (airing at the special time of 8/7c), “we will be losing some people,” executive producer Marc Guggenheim tells TVLine. “There are going to be some significant deaths.”
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Needless to say, the show is “going to have to” add some new players in Season 3, given the loss of life. “But whereas the Season 1 [finale] was introducing a character or a group of characters from the JSA,” this ender ushers in “a concept,” Guggenheim shares.

That said, Tuesday’s episode — in which the Waverider crew revisits 1916 in order to stop the Legion from rewriting reality — is “very similar to the Season 1 finale, in terms of its structure,” the EP says. “We definitely get a definitive end to the Legion of Doom/Spear of Destiny story. The end is a cliffhanger in the vein of Season 1… It’s an equally shocking finale as last year’s.”
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TVLINE | From the outside, “Aruba” seems like a peculiar episode title. What’s the significance?
It’s actually a reference to one of the lines in the Season [2] premiere. Rory, basically, wants to go on a vacation, and he’s picked Aruba as his destination of choice. The idea of taking a vacation to Aruba is something that resonates throughout the season finale. So we have a little bit of a narrative bookend. I don’t want to spoil whether or not the Legends actually get to Aruba, but Aruba looms nicely large.
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TVLINE | Following her death, what role, if any, does Amaya have to play in the finale?
Amaya has a pretty pivotal role to play, in large part because she’s going to have a reunion with Nate [in 1916]. Whether or not Amaya survives the finale is something you’ll have to tune in and watch for. But getting Nate back together with the woman he lost in the previous episode was one of the important bucket-list items we had.
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TVLINE | Is upsizing Rip a job for Ray?
You’re the first person to ask that question. All I’ll say is that he wasn’t shrunk down by the Spear of Destiny.

TVLINE | Do any of the Legion members have an agenda in the finale other than thwarting the Legends?
Yeah. Thawne definitely looms very large. He makes a large number of surprise appearances.

Is the Sara/Laurel scene something that happens by design? Or does it sneak up on Sara?
It certainly happens by the design of the writers. It happens very organic to the story. It’s definitely a pivotal moment in the plot. I don’t want to spoil it. I’ll just say Katie Cassidy appears as Laurel Lance. She doesn’t appear as Black Siren or Black Canary. It’s really a reunion of sorts between the two Lance sisters.

TVLINE | But Sara doesn’t seek Laurel out, does she?
Hmmm… there’s a philosophical argument to be made that she does.

Edited by tv echo
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

The 'Legends of Tomorrow' finale is killing off a bunch of your favorite characters
Sydney Bucksbaum   April 4, 2017
http://mashable.com/2017/04/04/legends-of-tomorrow-season-2-finale-who-dies-amaya-dead/#kmKKKnwHqsqW

Quote

Mashable spoke to executive producer Guggenheim about what fans can expect to see from the Legends of Tomorrow Season 2 finale, why the rewritten reality didn't affect the other three Arrow-verse shows and more.  
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What made you decide against having this rewritten reality on Legends affect the other Arrow-verse shows? Would that have ventured too much into four-show crossover territory?
Yeah, part of it was that it would turn into a four-show crossover territory. One of the binds that is a result of having this shared universe is, just like with Flashpoint [on The Flash] — which was resolved in enough time that you could imagine Arrow Season 5 took place after Flash 301 — the consequences of what happened in the finale are relatively contained to Legends. One of the things we're always mindful of is that we love the interconnectivity between the shows but at the same time, we don't want to obligate anyone to watch three other shows if they only like one of the shows. So for us, apart from the annual crossover which is obviously very interconnected, with the crossovers and easter egg moments, those are really designed to go past the casual viewer but have some payoff for the fan who is watching more than one of the shows. 

How did having a shorter order of episodes affect the story that you wanted to tell this season?
23 episodes like we do on Arrow is very hard. It's hard to maintain that sense of pace and urgency over 23 episodes. But 17 episodes is much more comfortable from a storytelling perspective. I do think it shows in the storytelling because we feel it in the writers’ room. Yeah, short orders! Let's do it.

Does that mean you want shorter orders for all the Arrow-verse shows, even Arrow?
Oh yeah. A thousand percent. I don't think it will ever happen, but yes. As a writer, I would certainly not complain. It definitely helps. With Arrow, one of the things that we're experimenting with like with the B story in Season 5 is we had the Tobias Church (Chad L. Coleman) storyline at the beginning of the season that gave an identity to the first five episodes of the season. That was a little different from the longer arc of Prometheus (Josh Segarra). That's a long way of saying that one of the things we're trying to experiment with on Arrow is doing these mini-arcs in service of the larger 23-episode story that allows you to tell a story with a beginning, middle and end that isn't necessarily 23 episodes long. Maintaining that intensity over 23 episodes is not easy.
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Going into the finale, things have never looked bleaker for the Legends, since they just watched Amaya die right in front of their eyes. Who out of the team is taking her loss the hardest?
Particularly Rory who correctly feels responsible and Nate who was very much in love with her. I'll say that Nate's feelings for Amaya aren't just a character turn. They do play a pivotal role in the plot. 
*  *  *
What does this mean for her destiny as Vixen, and Mari (Megalyn E.K.), her granddaughter, who also becomes Vixen? Has that destiny essentially been erased with Amaya's death?
It definitely is problematic. I would say that we will very definitively answer that question in the finale. How's that sound?
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Obviously breaking this one rule of time travel is going to have some pretty bad consequences in terms of the timeline, but just how bad are we talking here?
I would say so bad as to hopefully put to bed the notion that this is something that they're ever going to want to attempt again. And I'll also say that Amaya is not the only Legend we kill off. There's quite a few deaths in the finale. 

Quite a few?!
Yeah. [That's why] you're going to see some new faces next season. There's definitely some consequences to what the Legends are attempting.

Edited by tv echo
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