Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Why? This is an honest question. They didn't cast Justin Hartley as Oliver either.

In Smallville, Hartley's Oliver Queen was not a major recurring character IMO vs  Tom Welling playing the main character Clark Kent/Superman for 10 seasons appearing in all 218 episodes. I questioned why they didn't cast Justin Hartley myself. But IMO it's apples and oranges when it comes to Tom Welling and Justin Hartley.

[hogwash]

This better not be another Jay Garrick situation....

[tarotx]

This is a different universe than Smallville. I stopped watching it around where Arrow is right now but I wouldn't be opposed to TW as a cute little easter egg. I definitely don't need it to happen and even understand why they might want to stay away from that comparison.

[dtissagirl]

How old is this Supes supposed to be? TWells might legit be too old to play him now.

[Sakura12]

He might be the right age because Superman was already an adult when 13 year old Kara crashed on Earth. I think Superman could be mid to late thirties. 

[wonderwall]

It's kind of sad... Supergirl bringing Superman into the show (if only for a few episodes) is definitely taking the conversation away from Supergirl herself. It's happening here, and it's happening on social media. I know the talk right now is in anticipation of his appearance, but I can definitely see him cannibalizing the entire conversation for his episodes... 

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

It's kind of sad... Supergirl bringing Superman into the show (if only for a few episodes) is definitely taking the conversation away from Supergirl herself. It's happening here, and it's happening on social media. I know the talk right now is in anticipation of his appearance, but I can definitely see him cannibalizing the entire conversation for his episodes... 

Honestly, this might have been the plan all along.  See if Supergirl flies on CBS...which it did if not as highly as they might have liked. Supergirl invoked Superman so the set up was already there. Oh look the audience loved the Superman references. But we need those men folk to watch CBS but they don't seem to want to watch Supergirl.9I don't think that's true) OH HEY look we can move Supergirl to the CW and bring Superman to CBS via a crossover event that we laid the groundwork for in the SuperFlash Xover.

[ruby24]

9 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

It's kind of sad... Supergirl bringing Superman into the show (if only for a few episodes) is definitely taking the conversation away from Supergirl herself. It's happening here, and it's happening on social media. I know the talk right now is in anticipation of his appearance, but I can definitely see him cannibalizing the entire conversation for his episodes... 

That's what makes me suspicious, because they HAD to know this is what would happen. And it makes me think this is going to be some kind of planted pilot or something.

[Morrigan2575]

2 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

Wasnt Tom Welling developing a series for CBS called Section 13?

Oh yeah, he was but i don't know what happened with that.

[Sakura12]

Is he coming as Superman or Clark Kent? I think they should keep him as Clark Kent. Have him offer advice and guidance to Kara. I know it will look bad if he doesn't step in when she's struggling, but he could just say he knew she could handle it and if he really thought she needed his help he would've helped. They'll show Kara handling it on her own. That way Superman can be proud of his cousin while not taking over her show. A nice final shot would be them both in costume flying over National City or to save money standing in a field with their capes billowing behind them. Then Superman takes off back to Metropolis. 

Edited June 6, 2016 by Sakura12

[Morrigan2575]

I honestly think they almost have to bring Superman in, not Clark Kent.  I think the whole aspect of the stunt casting would backfire if he's not wearing the suit.

[apinknightmare]

They referred to him as Superman, so I'm pretty sure that's who's going to be showing up. 

[foreverevolving]

3 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Seriously, at this point, just cast Tom Welling. LOL

I don't like his version of Clark but the sheer Amusement of having them use Welling as a nudge nudge wink wink to Smallville (since it aired on The CW) just to Meta/Entertaining to me.

2 hours ago, ruby24 said:

It probably won't happen though. I'll post here what I posted in the Supergirl thread about this.

He's such a huge deal that I think if people like the guy they choose, there will very likely be demand for Superman to get his own show again. I can easily see it happening. For me (he's my favorite superhero), it'd be awesome because it would work to correct the current movie version of him, which is just totally wrong from every angle. I'd support it.

Nope, nope I don't even watch Supergirl but I DON'T want Superman on there besides knowing they are communicating via texts or if it is a younger version of him or just his voice.

I also don't think Tom Welling should do the role - it is well known that he hated wearing the superman suit for the one time he had to, and that he has done Everything in his power to stay away from anything Smallville related.

Also Smallville is one a different earth than Supergirl earth (they have their own Kara).

I also don't want another Superman TV show- we just had one less than 10 years ago, and than barely 20 years ago.. This also stems from the fact that I really don't like superman (or superpowered heroes in general- with the exception of the X-men mutants) i'm more of a Bat family person so I would much rather get a full on Batman/bat family show (though i'm fairly enjoying Gotham is good enough for me) than another superman centered show.

This news annoys me because we Finally have a female centered hero show and she is about to be overshadowed by the guy in her universe. If I were a Supergirl fan I'd be even more pissed about this.

[Morrigan2575]

IIRC he actually never wore the suit. It was either total CGI (Superman flying) or just a T-Shirt under his Reporters suit.  Apparently Brandon Routh's suit didn't fit Welling.

[Sakura12]

Since he's not doing much now he seems to have changed his tune. I saw an interview in February where he said he'd be up for doing it, no one's asked him. Tom Welling would be stunt casting at it's finest and woudl probably get Smallville fans to tune in. 

They announced Superman so there is nothing we can do to change it. Even though I would be upset if I cared about Supergirl. It's supposed to be the first female led super hero with powers show and they want to bring in a man to save it. Instead of writing more interesting and less cheesy storylines. 

Edited June 6, 2016 by Sakura12

[catrox14]

21 minutes ago, foreverevolving said:

also don't think Tom Welling should do the role - it is well known that he hated wearing the superman suit for the one time he had to, and that he has done Everything in his power to stay away from anything Smallville related.

That's the first thing I have ever heard about Welling being opposed to wearing the Superman suit. I thought WB/DC would not allow him wear the suit on TV. 

Edited June 6, 2016 by catrox14

[pootlus]

I think it's funny that the blurred out version of Superman they used in the pic is Dean Cain - who already has a role on the show.

I'd be okay with Tom Welling as a one-off stunt, if he's up for it. Or Brandon Routh for that matter.

[foreverevolving]

18 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

That's the first thing I have ever heard about Welling being opposed to wearing the Superman suit. I thought WB/DC would not allow him wear the suit on TV. 

From what I remember from interviews and rumors he was the one who never wanted to put on the suit, but I could be wrong. it's been awhile and I was never too deep into the Smallville fandom so it's possible there is different more concrete info on the matter. 

[nksarmi]

If the space pod ends up being Superboy - as many were speculating at the end of Supergirl - than Superman's appearance would most likely be a short stint related to that and wouldn't necessarily need to take anything away from her. She would then get to fulfill her destiny of essentially protecting and raising "Clark" and since she would be the mentor - we don't lose anything from the female-led superhero show.

[bijoux]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

IIRC he actually never wore the suit. It was either total CGI (Superman flying) or just a T-Shirt under his Reporters suit.  Apparently Brandon Routh's suit didn't fit Welling.

Is this for real? They gave him a cast off suit from the movie?

Edited June 6, 2016 by bijoux
Punctuation.

[dtissagirl]

9 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Is this for real? They gave him a cast off suit from the movie?

By the end of the run, Smallville's episode budget was around 17 bucks. [The suit only ever showed up in the very last ep.]

[Morrigan2575]

32 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Is this for real? They gave him a cast off suit from the movie?

That is what I remember, that they didn't have the budget to create a suit specifically for Welling. The suit shows up in the final season but Clark doesn't wear the suit until the actual series finale. As such, they used Routh's suit as a prop, so that people could see the suit in the show. 

When the finale came the only time you actually see Superman in the suit is when he's flying and that's supposedly all CGI.  After the time jump we see Clark on the roof doing a Superman suit reveal as the Superman theme plays but that's not actually a suit, it's just a t-shirt.

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

That is what I remember, that they didn't have the budget to create a suit specifically for Welling. The suit shows up in the final season but Clark doesn't wear the suit until the actual series finale. As such, they used Routh's suit as a prop, so that people could see the suit in the show. 

When the finale came the only time you actually see Superman in the suit is when he's flying and that's supposedly all CGI.  After the time jump we see Clark on the roof doing a Superman suit reveal as the Superman theme plays but that's not actually a suit, it's just a t-shirt.

That's what I remember too. So if Welling did complain about the suit, then I'm sure it's because it didn't fit properly. And really I don't blame him. He's probably thinking, "Dudes, I've been fucking Clark Kent FOR 10 years...and I can't get my own damn suit?' REALLY??"

[calliope1975]

1 hour ago, pootlus said:

I think it's funny that the blurred out version of Superman they used in the pic is Dean Cain - who already has a role on the show.

I'd be okay with Tom Welling as a one-off stunt, if he's up for it. Or Brandon Routh for that matter.

That's why I'd like it to be Tom Welling. Since they've already had Dean Cain and Helen Slater on the show, bring in all the Supes alumni.

For real, though, I do think it's BS that it's taking away from Supergirl's show. I don't want this to be some backdoor way to make Superman the star. I was irritated enough when Superman had to save her (no face time of course) in one of the early episodes. 

[BkWurm1]

On ‎6‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 4:49 PM, looptab said:

Ok, I appreciate all Stephen's been saying about the show going back to basics etc. But..I'm getting a weird vibe from these interviews - maybe because there's a lot of them lately, all reporting the same thing. He almost makes it sound like they need his approval before doing something, which I believe it's not the case. Like he has much more input than I think he does. Next what, will he say he writes his lines, and then fall into an elevator shaft?

I think he's probably been very vocal about going back to basics with MG and the writers. I think that part is authentic.  If they disagreed with him though, I'm sure he'd be singing a different tune. 

Points for the Friend's reference!!
 

Quote

 

When asked if he would be open to a very special musical crossover in the Berlanti-verse — literally everyone has an abnormally beautiful voice on these DC TV shows — Amell said, “No,” faster than Barry Allen broke the barrier.

“No. I’m out! I’m the first one. I get to draw the line, and I draw the line at musical,”

 

He says no now but if we keep wearing him down a few more years and perhaps set it up so HE doesn't have to sing maybe it can still happen.  The cast makes it impossible not to want. 

6 hours ago, bijoux said:

Why? This is an honest question. They didn't cast Justin Hartley as Oliver either.

Ohh!  How about let Hartley go brunette and cast HIM as Superman??

I really don't think that Superman on Supergirl will be anything more than stunt casting like the Flash visiting or the crossovers.  I can see DC wanting to get a happy, positive version of Supes in the minds of the public to maybe erase some of the damage IMO the movies did.  But I'd be very surprised if anything more than that came of it. 

If a spinoff got put in the works I just don't think they'd pick the timeline that exists on Supergirl.  He's too settled into his life.  That's not usually the jumping off point for storytelling. 

Personally, I'd have no problem with Welling showing up as Supes.  With the theory of the multiverse, Smallville clearly happened in a universe far, far away.  I can keep them separate.  I can accept that her cousin looked like that other guy but had a whole different backstory. 

Brandon Routh is really a temptation to stick back in the suit.  He would look the part probably better IMO than TW and he's RIGHT THERE too, already on the payroll.  The hilarity that would ensue when he showed up on LoT and was just a look alike would be worth it. (Kara constantly asking, are you sure you're not an alien with superpowers?  No, but I have a supersuit and they call me boyscout!) 

The problem with him though would be the question of continuity.  Would the audience want to adopt the Superman Returns history to the Supergirl universe?  Smallville is an easy no because we have all sorts of stuff that contradicts that idea.  Jimmy Olsen is the only contradiction I can think of right now to adopting the SR backstory (and hey, Smallville retconned their Olsen, why not Superman Returns as well.  It would mean though that Kara has a nephew, lol.)

Legal stuff would torpedo it in reality but I do see how there could be some confusion if Routh showed up.  

It's funny, nobody was a big fan of dead beat dad Superman but honestly, it sounds just like the kind of storyline that Berlanti and Co would have come up with, lol. 

Edited June 7, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Morrigan2575]

i don't know about Welling's show but Justin Hartley definitely has a show starting in the fall (NBC?). Odds of him being cast as Superman are very slim.

I do really, really like the idea of Brandon Routh playing Superman and ATOM. That would be very Meta and i think the humor of the situation would work in Routh's favor.

[kismet]

I don't really care who they get for Superman. I think Welling would be kinda of fun/cheeky casting. However, it also opens up a can of worms in crossing different universes. Like should we expect Chloe and the other GA? Now the Kristin Kreuk is free, is she going to be back as a Lane. I feel like we need to keep the universes separate.

I know they do stunt casting with Dean Cain & John Wesley Ship, but I feel that it's different because they are from completely different generations of shows. Smallville is still a little too close to this generational universe.

Likewise, I do NOT want it to be Brandon Routh. That is actually my only definite desire about casting. He is the ATOM in this Flarrowverse and I feel like he should only have one major mask role, especially considering that Superman is a pretty big mask/cape to fill.

I find it a little disappointing that they are bringing in Superman. I actually wish they would let Supergirl not live in his shadow. Although maybe they will bring her in to save him. That would be nice way to use him, but still make her the star.

[Starfish35]

Well, in my opinion, the whole thing about having him but never showing his face was getting ridiculous.  Also that he wouldn't show up for certain crises, such as Kara's Red-K rampage.  So they needed to either stop playing coy with it, or find a way to eliminate him from the picture altogether.

[Sakura12]

The Universes can be separate. No one said he's Clark Kent from the tv show Smallville. It would just be a fun nod because they already have Dean Cain and Helen Slater (also Laura Vandervoort).

Edited June 7, 2016 by Sakura12

[kismet]

1 minute ago, Sakura12 said:

The Universes can be separate. No one said he's Clark Kent from the tv show Smallville. It would just be a fun nod because they already have Dean Cain and Helen Slater. 

True but those people don't play Clark Kent/Superman or whoever Helen played. Tom Welling would be playing Clark Kent/Superman whom he played for 10yrs. There is no way the audience wouldn't be tempted to have the universes blend in their mind. It's more than just stunt casting, it's resurrecting an old character.

[Sakura12]

People can do whatever they want in their own minds, that's what fanfic is for. The TV show doesn't have to follow a fan's mind. People know Tom Welling as Clark Kent from Smallville. He can just play another version of Superman for Supergirl. If Brandon Routh plays him would we have to go with the plot for his awful movie? I don't think anyone wants that. 

Edited June 7, 2016 by Sakura12

[BkWurm1]

8 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

People can do whatever they want in their own minds, that's what fanfic is for. The TV show doesn't have to follow a fan's mind. People know Tom Welling as Clark Kent from Smallville. He can just play another version of Superman for Supergirl. If Brandon Routh plays him would we have to go with the plot for his awful movie? I don't think anyone wants that. 

Would we have to go with Superman Returns backstory if BR reprised his role as Superman?  No.  Absolutely not, but I do think there would be more of a temptation.  Still, I agree, people can think whatever they want.  I think it would be worth it for the running joke down the line.  Plus it would take away the pressure of casting the perfect new face.  I'd must rather energy and time is spent on the writing rather than the casting for a couple one off appearances. 

Edited June 7, 2016 by BkWurm1

[kismet]

Well if Welling can be Superman and leave all the Smallville plot baggage behind him, than BR could leave all the Superman Returns plot baggage behind him as well. It's the same principle.

[Morrigan2575]

i honestly don't think they'll go with Routh or Welling but it's fun to imagine.  

i do think they're better off with the Meta of an existing Superman actor than actually trying to cast a brand new Superman.  Which i imagine is going to be an absolute PITA.

[Sakura12]

I can leave behind Tom Welling's Smallville character, just to have a fun cameo by him on Supergirl playing their version of Superman. For stunt casting he's their best bet over a new guy who will have a lot to live up too since I've seen a lot of support for Tom Welling. 

[kismet]

How hard is it to cast a Superman? Find a tall attractive male with an athletic physique and dark hair. I can't imagine those are hard to come by in Vancouver. I could probably get you a list by the end of the night. It's 2 episodes, with perhaps some more recurring parts. In my lifetime, I have known at least 4 Supermans, it's not that hard of a role to cast for a guest bit.

[Sakura12]

It's not that it's hard to cast. It's the fact that a lot of people want Tom Welling for the part. When fans get something in their minds it's hard to get them out it. They could go with generic male number 1 and he might do okay. However it's viewers they want and casting an unknown is more of a risky bet than casting an actor that played Superman on popular show from a few years ago. 

Edited June 7, 2016 by Sakura12

[Trini]

9 minutes ago, kismet said:

How hard is it to cast a Superman? Find a tall attractive male with an athletic physique and dark hair. I can't imagine those are hard to come by in Vancouver. I could probably get you a list by the end of the night. It's 2 episodes, with perhaps some more recurring parts. In my lifetime, I have known at least 4 Supermans, it's not that hard of a role to cast for a guest bit.

Another website's comment section mentioned that they'd also have to cast someone who is at least as tall as Mehcad Brooks; because it might be embarrassing to have Jimmy James bigger than Superman.

I'm rooting for Welling myself, but it won't be a big deal if he doesn't get cast.

[catrox14]

25 minutes ago, Trini said:

Another website's comment section mentioned that they'd also have to cast someone who is at least as tall as Mehcad Brooks; because it might be embarrassing to have Jimmy James bigger than Superman.

I'm rooting for Welling myself, but it won't be a big deal if he doesn't get cast.

Welp, Jared Padalecki it is then.

FYI this is a joke lest anyone think otherwise. I can't see Jared as Clark Kent no matter what

Edited June 7, 2016 by catrox14

[Starfish35]

16 minutes ago, Trini said:

Another website's comment section mentioned that they'd also have to cast someone who is at least as tall as Mehcad Brooks; because it might be embarrassing to have Jimmy James bigger than Superman.

I'm rooting for Welling myself, but it won't be a big deal if he doesn't get cast.

I think that's because a lot of people want Matt Bomer, and he'd end up looking small beside Mehcad Brooks.  I tend to think of Matt as a smaller guy myself after several years of watching him next to Tim DeKay.  I was surprised to read that he's actually 6' tall.

I personally don't want Bomer or Welling, but that's me.   And they are absolutely not going to do Welling because of the Smallville associations.  They might bring him on, assuming he agreed, playing another character altogether, but not as Clark/Superman.  

[Starfish35]

36 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

It's not that it's hard to cast. It's the fact that a lot of people want Tom Welling for the part. When fans get something in their minds it's hard to get them out it. They could go with generic male number 1 and he might do okay. However it's viewers they want and casting an unknown is more of a risky bet than casting an actor that played Superman on popular show from a few years ago. 

*shrug* A lot of people were absolutely dead set on Justin Hartley playing Oliver on Arrow.  I think most of them got over it.

[kismet]

Looks like they're gonna have to cast another taller man for SA to whine about... here's hoping they keep Superman out of the crossover or SA is gonna get all pouty again.

[BkWurm1]

56 minutes ago, kismet said:

How hard is it to cast a Superman? Find a tall attractive male with an athletic physique and dark hair. I can't imagine those are hard to come by in Vancouver. I could probably get you a list by the end of the night. It's 2 episodes, with perhaps some more recurring parts. In my lifetime, I have known at least 4 Supermans, it's not that hard of a role to cast for a guest bit.

Superman isn't a role that many men have had.  Yes there have been five in my life time but before Christopher Reeve, I think there had been only two.  It's a line on the resume that is going to stick even if it is just for a couple episodes.  He's going to show up in trivia questions and on lists comparing the new with the old.  People will judge the casting. 

If they just brought in TW or BR they don't have any expectations to manage.  If they pick their own pony, they get the blame or credit for generations to come.  Am I exaggerating?  I don't think so otherwise why would we still talk about George Reeves the guy that did a children's show in the fifties?

8 minutes ago, kismet said:

Looks like they're gonna have to cast another taller man for SA to whine about... here's hoping they keep Superman out of the crossover or SA is gonna get all pouty again.

Putting Superman in a crossover would be a HUGE mistake unless it was only a cameo or part of the mcguffen that sends them on their adventure. 

Edited June 7, 2016 by BkWurm1

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Superman isn't a role that many men have had.  Yes there have been five in my life time but before Christopher Reeve, I think there had been only two.  It's a line on the resume that is going to stick even if it is just for a couple episodes.  He's going to show up in trivia questions and on lists comparing the new with the old.  People will judge the casting. 

If they just brought in TW or BR they don't have any expectations to manage.  If they pick their own pony, they get the blame or credit for generations to come.  Am I exaggerating?  I don't think so otherwise why would we still talk about George Reeves the guy that did a children's show?

Putting Superman in a crossover would be a HUGE mistake unless it was only a cameo or part of the mcguffen that sends them on their adventure. 

This reminds me that Ben Affleck has played both Batman and Superman(well George Reeves in Hollywoodland)

[BkWurm1]

Now that's a great trivia question!

[quarks]

Not counting Ben Affleck as George Reeves, Bob Holiday on Broadway, or any of the many voice actors from the radio show and the later cartoons, I count eight previous Superman actors:

1. Kirk Alyn (early and terrible live action film. Watch with alcohol only)

2. George Reeves 

3. Christopher Reeve (as far as I'm concerned, the definitive version)

4. Dean Cain

5. Tom Welling

6. Brandon Routh

7. Henry Cavill

8. The extra wearing Superman's red boots in the last couple of Supergirl episodes.

There was also a Superboy television show at one point. Are we counting that? I think that adds two or three actors, though I'd have to check.

[kismet]

Whatever they do I'm sure it will work out just fine. I'm not really concerned. Overall casting for the Flarrowverse has been pretty good. I can think of the failures on 1 hand. And they actually repaired one of those failures by moving the character to a new show & set of writers. They do poorly cast romantic pairings and suck at chemistry tests. But luckily, SG & SM won't need to be romantic with each other, so it should be all good.

My personal feelings is its better to have more Supermans, then to mix the different universes. Every Superman, I have ever been introduced to I have enjoyed in that role. But I wouldn't want Henry Cavil showing up on my TV, just like I wouldn't want Dean Cain showing up in the next movie. They have done justice to the role, but its different worlds & characters. I actually enjoy having separate universes, especially since DC has gone out its way to keep up the lines of division. I think times are changing and multiple men in the role is fine. I also think Superman is one of the easiest superheroes to cast because he's kind of bland and your average boy next door. He's a pretty boy who can fly.

Edited June 7, 2016 by kismet

[Lokiberry]

I actually think it would be pretty cool if they used Brandon Routh. It would also be a cool way to make use of the multiverse. They've already done something like this by making Barry's dad, Henry be Jay Garrick, Earth 2's Flash.  The possibilities are endless.

[looptab]

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I think he's probably been very vocal about going back to basics with MG and the writers. I think that part is authentic.  If they disagreed with him though, I'm sure he'd be singing a different tune. 

Points for the Friend's reference!!
. 

Oh, I don't doubt that he's been vocal about it. It's just the diva-like tone that makes me side-eye him a bit. It's probably a byproduct if so many interviews, though. :)

[BkWurm1]

2 hours ago, quarks said:

Not counting Ben Affleck as George Reeves, Bob Holiday on Broadway, or any of the many voice actors from the radio show and the later cartoons, I count eight previous Superman actors:

1. Kirk Alyn (early and terrible live action film. Watch with alcohol only)

2. George Reeves 

3. Christopher Reeve (as far as I'm concerned, the definitive version)

4. Dean Cain

5. Tom Welling

6. Brandon Routh

7. Henry Cavill

8. The extra wearing Superman's red boots in the last couple of Supergirl episodes.

There was also a Superboy television show at one point. Are we counting that? I think that adds two or three actors, though I'd have to check.

Personally I don't count Superboy (I couldn't stand the actor/s) in it, lol.  They never became Superman so they don't count.  TW barely counts, but he had ten years of almost being Superman so even though he was only there for a minute I guess he has to count.  I refuse to count boots, lol.  A few of the voice actors should count but that's another can of worms, ha, ha. 

2 hours ago, looptab said:

Oh, I don't doubt that he's been vocal about it. It's just the diva-like tone that makes me side-eye him a bit. It's probably a byproduct if so many interviews, though. :)

I think he's less than happy about the less than satisfied reviews of the season ending.  The magic did get in the way of an enemy he could be his best at.