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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes


ArctisTor
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21 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

I don’t think Caity is the best actress but she has charisma, fighting skill, and unlike Juliana and Katie, makes me feel sympathy for her despite being a “badass”.

juliana is quickly establishing herself as the worst actress in my mind.

Yeah, my main problem with CL’s acting is that sometimes she talks weirdly, I don’t always understand her well, but she is able to give her character layers while the other two can’t.

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25 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

juliana is quickly establishing herself as the worst actress in my mind.

I agree with you on here..

IDK what's up with the canaries but that role somehow attracts weak actors.

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6 hours ago, tv echo said:

Needless to say, I don't agree with most of this list - I would probably agree with including only Cynthia Robinson, Casper Crump, Robbie Amell and Hartley Sawyer (and I never saw Adam "Edge" Copeland's performance)...

No Justice: 15 Arrowverse Performances That Ruined Great DC Characters
Mason Segall  March 3, 2018
https://www.cbr.com/bad-arrowverse-performances-dc/

15. CANDICE PATTON AS IRIS WEST
14. MEHCAD BROOKS AS JIMMY OLSEN
13. CYNTHIA ROBINSON AS AMANDA WALLER
12. DANIELLE PANABAKER AS KILLER FROST
11. CASPER CRUMP AS VANDAL SAVAGE
10. ROBBIE AMELL AS RONNIE RAYMOND
9. NICK TARABAY AS CAPTAIN BOOMERANG
8. ADAM ‘EDGE’ COPELAND AS ATOM SMASHER
7. CIARA RENEE AS HAWKGIRL
6. ECHO KELLUM AS MR. TERRIFIC
5. AMY GUMENICK AS CUPID
4. ARTHUR DARVILL AS RIP HUNTER
3. MARK HAMILL AS THE TRICKSTER
2. TOM FELTON AS DOCTOR ALCHEMY
1. HARTLEY SAWYER AS ELONGATED MAN

 

Yeah, the author has to be talking more about the characters deviating from comics for some of these choices; they really need to reword their title to not make it about the actors being bad. Having Tom Felton so high on the list is an absolute crime, in my opinion. Also, Hartley Sawyer is actually a decent actor; he just has a very weak character. I also take offense to Arthur Darvill on this list; again, great actor, but a weaker character (in Rip's case, he bounces from shitty storyline to shitty storyline when they need a main character to really screw up).

I'd only agree with Ciara Renee and Casper Crump from that list, in all honesty. Shitty characters and even if the actors are usually decent, they certainly weren't here. Robbie Amell is also on that list. And I barely remember Cynthia, Nick, and Adam in their roles. 

Edited by Lady Calypso
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I think Juliana does a fine job for the most part. I think her only thing is being to passionate in scenes when she is being really angry. 

Caity has grown a lot, but of the arrow cast would probably still be least fave out of the bunch. But with Legends she does fine. 

I feel for Mehcad because they tried to do a total overhaul of the Jimmy character and it just didnt work and now they just seem totally clueless what to do with him.

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(edited)

To be clear I do not watch The Flash. 

 

I have have a friend who watched all seasons of Arrow and all seasons of The Flash. She wants to know why this season on The Flash someone is always giving a kiss to someone else yet we rarely see that on Arrow. 

 

I couldn’t answer that question so I’m asking this forum. 

Edited by BunsenBurner
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3 minutes ago, BunsenBurner said:

To be clear I do not watch The Flash. 

 

I have have a friend who watched all seasons of Arrow and all seasons of The Flash. She wants to know why this season on The Flash someone is always giving a kiss to someone else yet we rarely see that on Arrow. 

 

I couldn’t answer that question so I’m asking this forum. 

By my count Olicity have had kisses in 6x03, 6x04, 6x06, 6x09 and 6x12. 

 

Thats just under half the episodes, so I don't think it's been that rare. If we went back and looked at how many episode in the first 14 episodes of season 4 I think it would probably be comparable.

 

As for how many kisses there are on The Flash I can't comment.

 

Id just tell your friend it's not about quantity but quality ;) I'd rather have a good kisses every other episode, then awkward, don't open your mouth, room for the Holy Spirit between you kisses every episode. 

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23 minutes ago, BunsenBurner said:

To be clear I do not watch The Flash.

I have have a friend who watched all seasons of Arrow and all seasons of The Flash. She wants to know why this season on The Flash someone is always giving a kiss to someone else yet we rarely see that on Arrow.

I couldn’t answer that question so I’m asking this forum. 

 

I don't know if there's a specific reason, but I'd say it might be because the relationships are a central theme of The Flash, and at least with the main couple, TPTB think it's important to show them as in love and stable.

I don't watch Arrow, but I'd guess the writers there have different priorities.

[ETA:] But I also agree with Primal that there are just more relationships to showcase.

Edited by Trini
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(edited)

@BunsenBurner I have watched all of both shows and I would say on the Flash no one seems to have jobs or are shown to be working much. They tend to be standing around a lot to discuss their woes but their woes are not as urgent so more time for kissing.

On Arrow there is always a bloody crisis and they are all busy. So you have Lyla who is not there half the time (presumably working on Argus stuff), Oliver is always attending to some crisis, when he wasn't GA Felicity was running off to deal with a crisis, when they are together Olicity have to run off to deal with a crisis. Sadly no time for kissing! Or dessert! 

ETA: Even when they were having a nice family moment this week, Oliver had to pull Felicity aside and ask her to hack! Damn the Arrow villains! 

Edited by Mellowyellow
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I guess since Oliver and Felicity don't have to give each other pep talks once or twice every episode, they have fewer opportunities to exchange chaste little pecks.

Besides, kisses on Arrow have always been about quality, not quantity.

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4 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Barry probably wants to get in all the kisses he can, just in case he fucks up the timeline again and Iris forgets about him. :(

Iris: “Barry, I love you, but why does it seem like you’re kissing me goodbye every time one of us leaves, even for an hour?”

Barry: “Well, I don’t know what’s going to happen in that time. What if I decide I have to run back in time to change something and we end up never meeting?” 

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Honestly? I'd much rather take what Olicity have been given this season than what Flash has given Westallen or what Supergirl has given Karamel. 

We had:

603: Oliver asking Felicity to help with William which led to Oliver giving Felicity the key to his apartment
604: An episode where Oliver/Felicity roles reversed and he was leading her in the field and she leaned on Oliver for support (also hot makeout sessions!)
608: Literally the entire crossover was centered around them
609: A beautiful reception with everyone's family members which also included cake, a first dance, and throwing the bouquet
611: Felicity/Oliver going through parenting together as a single unit

I'd take these quality episodes over meager kisses any day considering those moments have more weight and meaning. 

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Yikes on that actor's list.

There's nothing wrong with Hartley Sawyer's performance - I mean, yes, I hate the character and have said so repeatedly, and I think Ralph has been the hands down worst part of a season that included that awful trial. But that's entirely on the setup and the writing. Sawyer is fine. The same was true for Tom Felton - lots wrong with the character, nothing wrong with the acting.  With Iris/Candice Patton, there's nothing wrong with the character or the acting other than Flash continuing to waste Candice Patton.

38 minutes ago, BunsenBurner said:

I have have a friend who watched all seasons of Arrow and all seasons of The Flash. She wants to know why this season on The Flash someone is always giving a kiss to someone else yet we rarely see that on Arrow. 

 

I couldn’t answer that question so I’m asking this forum. 

I'd dispute the premise of the question, and note that it very much depends upon which seasons of Arrow and Flash we're talking about.

Season one of Arrow had plenty of kissing ranging from brief pecks to full makeout sessions between multiple people: Moira/Walter, Oliver/Laurel, Oliver/Helena, Oliver/McKenna, Thea/whoever that was, Thea/Roy, Diggle/Carly, Laurel/Tommy, Cyrus Vanch/unnamed girlfriend, and various random extras/day players in the backgrounds of a few scenes. 

Season two did cut back on this - basically that was limited to Thea/Roy (and very limited there), Laurel and the assistant DA (which was more him trying to make a move which failed), Diggle/Lyla, Sara/Nyssa, Oliver lightly kissing Laurel on the forehead, Oliver/Shado, Oliver/Isabel and Oliver/Sara, as well as a cut scene between China White and a villain. But it was still around.

Season three - when Flash showed up - featured far more kissing on Arrow than on Flash. That included Oliver/Felicity, Felicity/Ray, Felicity/her college ex boyfriend, Diggle/Lyla, Thea/Roy, Deadshot/his wife, Maseo/Tatsu (multiple episodes) and Thea/that horrible DJ (multiple times, unfortunately), and also fatherly pecks from Malcolm/Thea and Diggle/baby Sara. 

That same season, Flash did feature Caitlin/Ronnie, Iris/Eddie, Barry/Felicity, Barry/Linda, Barry/Iris and not-really-Barry/Caitlin, but even with all that and Oliver/Felicity not making out for several episodes, Flash had significantly fewer kisses/makeout sessions than Arrow - and in fact, the entire run of Flash so far has had fewer sex scenes than Arrow had in season three alone. 

Season four/season two continued this trend. Flash did have Barry/Patty, Barry/Iris, a sorta Barry/Caitlin kiss if you stretch the definition of that, something sorta not really going on with Cisco/Golden Glider, and Caitlin/Jay, but that was it. Meanwhile, Oliver/Felicity kissed in pretty much every episode up through 415, and Arrow also still had Diggle/Lyla, Thea/whatshisname, Quentin/Donna Smoak, and paternal/forehead kisses with Damien Darkh and his daughter, plus the Hawks, who had their first kiss on Arrow.

It's only in season five/season three that things finally switched - largely because Oliver and Felicity stayed broken up for most of the season, Thea, for once, wasn't paired up with anyone for the entire season, Audrey Marie Anderson (Lyla) was busy with other work, Donna Smoak mostly vanished from the show, and no one in the flashbacks felt like kissing/making out, possibly because they were as irritated by the flashbacks as fans were. Meanwhile, Flash started pairing up several couples: Barry/Iris, Cisco/Gypsy, Wally/Jesse, Caitlin/Draco Malfoy, Joe/Cecile, and H.R./person whose name I can't remember.

This season, things seem to be a bit more balanced. No, Arrow hasn't featured kisses/makeout sessions every episode, and mostly kept Oliver/Felicity physically apart for the first few episodes, but have had Oliver/Felicity make out or briefly kiss in most episodes since then. Arrow has also had kisses with Diggle/Lyla and Vigilante/Dinah. Meanwhile, over on Flash - yeah, Barry/Iris do tend to exchange quick pecks here and there, as do Cecile/Joe, and Flash almost but not quite got an actual sex scene with Gypsy/Cisco. But that's been it - especially since Wally/Jesse and Caitlin/Draco Malfoy broke up - and I'd actually argue that Flash has missed at least three moments where Barry/Iris should have shared a passionate kiss, but didn't.

So even with Flash currently featuring four stable couples (Barry/Iris, Joe/Cecile, Gypsy/Cisco, and the Thinker/his wife) to Arrow's two (Oliver/Felicity and Diggle/Lyla) I don't think that we really see someone always kissing someone on Flash and rarely see this on Arrow.  Last year, sure. But other years, not so much. 

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I'm just happy that The Flash does a decent job of giving majority of their characters a relationship. Arrow really needs to work on that. We need more Diggle/Lyla and get Curtis a new boyfriend or get him back together with his husband. And just more casual scenes in general for everyone.

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11 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

get Curtis a new boyfriend

I'd be happy if he'd just stop talking about NOT having a boyfriend.  We get it already, Curtis.  Now go do something about it or drop the subject.  

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Curtis needs to be very very very dead.

The N00bs didn't bother me much until this storyline started. Now I'm walking around wishing for half the characters on Arrow to die which is something I've never done for any show.

Which leads me to a question that I will ask in the Hopes and Fears thread!

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4 hours ago, thegirlsleuth said:

juliana is quickly establishing herself as the worst actress in my mind.

Juliana is a classic case of miscasting. She's completely out of her element in an action hero role. Not because of a lack of range, but because of a very superficial understanding/idea of what an action heroine has to look and act like. Like so many actresses before her, she has fallen into this trap where she's acting all tough and intense in any given scene - to the point where it has robbed her performance of any nuance or subtlety. And amazingly enough, her acting seems to be getting worse the longer she plays this character. Like, her portrayal of anger/rage in 6x14 was so bad, it was comical. The sad thing is, I know she can do better because I've seen it. I've seen her play angry in a movie before and it was completely natural and at a normal intensity level. It's just this particular character archetype that has her hamming it up to a ridiculous degree.  

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If we notice it, wouldn't a director notice it?

I have no idea how productions works but isn't a director there to guide you? Shouldn't the director say "Oi you there, dial it down and stop over acting."

or "Oi you, stop the ridiculous pouting every time you talk."

Or is that not what they do?

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1 hour ago, BunsenBurner said:

To be clear I do not watch The Flash. 

 

I have have a friend who watched all seasons of Arrow and all seasons of The Flash. She wants to know why this season on The Flash someone is always giving a kiss to someone else yet we rarely see that on Arrow. 

 

I couldn’t answer that question so I’m asking this forum. 

Any particular reason your friend is concerned about the number of kisses between the two shows? I don't think it's a good idea to look at it as a contest when both shows are significantly different.

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Quote

If we notice it, wouldn't a director notice it?

I have no idea how productions works but isn't a director there to guide you? Shouldn't the director say "Oi you there, dial it down and stop over acting."

or "Oi you, stop the ridiculous pouting every time you talk."

Or is that not what they do?

 

For all we know the director *did* do that and what we're seeing is the best he/she got.

Edited by apinknightmare
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25 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

If we notice it, wouldn't a director notice it?

I have no idea how productions works but isn't a director there to guide you? Shouldn't the director say "Oi you there, dial it down and stop over acting."

or "Oi you, stop the ridiculous pouting every time you talk."

Or is that not what they do?

.....yes and no?

I mean, yes, that's one thing that directors do, but television directors are also working with lighting, set direction, sound and camera operators. And Arrow only has eight days to shoot 52/54 minutes of film, typically including about 12 to 15 minutes of stunt sequences. My guess is that the directors don't have a lot of time. 

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1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

If we notice it, wouldn't a director notice it?

I have no idea how productions works but isn't a director there to guide you? Shouldn't the director say "Oi you there, dial it down and stop over acting."

or "Oi you, stop the ridiculous pouting every time you talk."

Or is that not what they do?

The director doesn't have any choice in the casting of the role, and I'm going to assume the network when casting Juliana priotised her being attractive and not costing them a lot over her suitability to convey the role. 

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I don't think JH is the only one that falls into the idea that being BC and a badass action hero means acting angry and tough all the time,imo the EPs also have this vision for BC so they have no problem with the performance.I really think the only BC they put actual thought in and had a storyline clearly in mind for was Sara in season 2.I wasn't as big of a fan as some people but they tried with her.KC was a mess of lets throw everything on it because we have to and see if something sticks.And JH is just the 3rd try where they can't be bothered to the point that they're literally just repeating her exact storyline from 5.11 only dragged out over more episodes.I'm not surprised they didn't cast for more than looks believable in action scenes tbh.

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What is the word I'm thinking of? Synergy?...

Comic Store in Your Future: Marvel’s Fresh Start Not So Fresh?
Rod Lamberti   March 3, 2018
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/03/04/comic-store-future-marvel-fresh-start/

Quote

More people picked up Ragman thanks to him having shown up in The CW’s Arrow. Why did that happen? Because people who were already collecting comics saw Ragman on Arrow and were curious about his limited series. This means people who knew comic books are still being made knew it was an option. Many people who saw Black Panther had no idea the character was based on a comic book, let alone that they had an option of purchasing a comic with the character in it. The Marvel logo for the average moviegoer in their minds is associated with Marvel Studios, not comics. The opening credits to Marvel movies nowadays shows their characters from other movies, and the Marvel logo goes to Marvel Studios, which doesn’t do a thing for comics.

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13 hours ago, Trini said:

Any particular reason your friend is concerned about the number of kisses between the two shows? I don't think it's a good idea to look at it as a contest when both shows are significantly different.

She watched them because she likes superhero movies. She just thought that this season on The Flash they upped the kissing even if it was just a quick kiss. She said it felt like it was becoming more romcom than superhero comic. She told me that the scenes between O/F and D/L were more real life as compared to The Flash. I told her 2 different shows and she commented, “As different as night and day.”

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Quote

Many people who saw Black Panther had no idea the character was based on a comic book, let alone that they had an option of purchasing a comic with the character in it. The Marvel logo for the average moviegoer in their minds is associated with Marvel Studios, not comics. The opening credits to Marvel movies nowadays shows their characters from other movies, and the Marvel logo goes to Marvel Studios, which doesn’t do a thing for comics.

I have a hard time believing that there are people (apart from children) that don't know that all the Marvel stuff is based on the comics.  Or at least that they would be the "average" moviegoer.  

Edited by BkWurm1
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1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

I have a hard time believing that there are people (apart from children) that don't know that all the Marvel stuff is based on the comics.  Or at least that they would be the "average" moviegoer.  

I DON'T believe it. The first thing you see is all the characters from the comics before the movie opens. And unless they've had their heads in the sands for the past decade.

But okay, say for argument's sake they didn't. It's another reason I wish Marvel Studios hadn't changed the look of the heroes to the actors playing them, but kept to the flipping of the Marvel comics. That would have given them a clue. Or oh, I don't know, if they saw the trailer, they'd get an inkling?

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19 minutes ago, quarks said:

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO do not even THINK about putting this out into the world Screenrant have you no consideration for my health 

https://screenrant.com/tom-cruise-green-lantern-movie-director/

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

giphy.gif    giphy.gif

 

Andrew Dyce can just go jump off a cliff or join Scientology since he luuuurves Cruise so much. If Cruise gets his hands on this, it won't be Hal Jordan. It will be Cruise playing Cruise dressed up as Jordan. And I "SCOFFED" and "BALKED" at that no talent Affleck getting the role of Bruce Wayne/Batman, and I STILL maintain he was a GODAWFUL choice and he's ruined the DCEU's Batman for me. So FUCK OFF. And I hope Dyce's wish for this to happen gets CRUSHED.

Edited by GHScorpiosRule
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(edited)

Are they throwing darts at actor/actress pictures at the DC casting department at WB? What is with their choices? While I loved Wonder Woman, I still think they could've gotten someone better than Gal Gadot. 

Edited by Sakura12
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(edited)

I hope that article is pure BS because otherwise DC just hates itself. What's next? Amy Schumer or Lena Dunham as Catwoman? 

Edited by JJ928
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(edited)

Some of these critics interpreted the word "superhero" more loosely than others...

Critics Pick the Best Superheroes on TV – IndieWire Survey
Hanh Nguyen   Marc 6, 2018
http://www.indiewire.com/2018/03/best-superhero-tv-indiewire-critics-survey-1201936380/

Quote

This week’s question: Who is the best superhero on TV?

(The character must have at least appeared on TV sometime within the last two years, and their show has not been canceled yet.)

Here are the critics' picks:
Allison Keene (Collider) - Kara Danvers, a/k/a Supergirl
Alan Sepinwall (Uproxx) - Jessica Jones
Marisa Roffman (Give Me My Remote) - Dana Scully on The X-Files
Liz Shannon Miller (IndieWire) - Jessica Jones
Daniel Fienberg (The Hollywood Reporter) - Sam Fox on Better Things
Damian Holbrook (TV Guide Magazine) - Tyler Hoechlin's Superman on Supergirl
Kaitlin Thomas (TVGuide.com) - David Haller on Legion and the teens of Marvel's Runaways
Eric Deggans (NPR) - Mr. Spock and Batman as best superhero character, and Jessica Jones as best superhero tv series
Todd VanDerWerff (Vox) - Freddie Sykes on Twin Peaks
April Neale (Monsters & Critics) - Frank Castle, a/k/a The Punisher
Ben Travers (IndieWire) - Michael on The Good Place

Edited by tv echo
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(edited)

Do some of those critics know what a superhero...is? Or are they pulling the old “the real heroes are single mom” things? I’m confused. Or are some of them too fancy to watch superhero shows? They made some solid choices though, and my geek heart soars at the sheer volume of choices on tv now. 

Edited by tennisgurl
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2 hours ago, JJ928 said:

I hope that article is pure BS because otherwise DC just hates itself. What's next? Amy Schumer or Lena Dunham as Catwoman? 

Frankly, I think that as incredibly wrong as they both are for that role, either one of them would be better as Catwoman than Tom Cruise would be as Green Lantern, and that's even if they include a scene of Tom Cruise shouting "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE RING!" at a quavering Jack Nicholson which we all know they aren't going to do.

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