Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[wonderwall]

9 minutes ago, bijoux said:

How did Flashpoint affect LoT?

It didn't, iirc

Edited September 8, 2017 by wonderwall

[Velocity23]

But they had that whole secret message from old Barry not to trust present Barry. 

[Starfish35]

2 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

But they had that whole secret message from old Barry not to trust present Barry. 

That never ended up going anywhere.

[apinknightmare]

Someone needs to send a non-secret message that no one should trust any Barry ever.

[Velocity23]

18 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

That never ended up going anywhere.

Well they still set it up and it was referenced in the crossover. 

[Starfish35]

16 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Well they still set it up and it was referenced in the crossover. 

But that was the end of it.  It didn't factor into the rest of the season at all.  I don't know what happened there, but if I'm remembering right it never came up again, leaving me baffled about why they put it in at all, because there was no payoff for it.  Unless the crossover was supposed to be the payoff, but if so that's pretty lame.

But as to your main point, I agree.  They should keep the plotlines of the different shows on their own shows.  Bringing up Oliver's baby mama drama in the middle of the second crossover, for example, was a huge mistake, and Barry's Flashpoint drama was a drag on last year's crossover in general.  And even introducing Stein's daughter.

[tv echo]

Natalie Abrams reported on her visits to the Arrowverse sets last week...

Entertainment Weekly's Superhero Insider - News Roundup, Villain Roundup & Supergirl
September 7, 2017    Kyle Anderson & Natalie Abrams

-- Supergirl: There will be an upcoming episode called "Midvale," where Kara and Alex take a trip to their hometown and relive a murder mystery from high school that shaped their relationship. There will also be flashbacks to when their relationship first started, when Kara first came to Earth, and how they were as children. The show had to recast both young Kara and young Alex. It's episode 5 or 6. 

-- Natalie asked Andrew Kreisberg if we'll get more Supergirl characters' involvement in the 4-way crossover this year. AK replied that Kara and Alex are going to be in the center of it all throughout the four hours. They're really leaning into Danvers sister stuff this year on Supergirl and the crossover will be no different.

-- The Flash: Barry and Iris are going into couples therapy this season. When Barry gets out of the Speed Force, it's been 6 months and Iris has taken charge of the team. To comedic effect, Barry and Iris keep accidentally clashing because they both feel like the leader of Team Flash. It leads them to go into couples therapy. Their reason for therapy is not just their butting heads as leader of Team Flash, but also because Barry had decided unilaterally to go into the Speed Force without talking to his fiance about it. Caitlin is the one who suggests that they go into couples therapy. We'll see a strengthening of the Iris-Caitlin relationship. Per AK, Barry and Iris will get married this season, but the question becomes: will they stay married with everything that comes up against them?

-- Natalie said that The Flash is holding to its guarantee that this season's show will be back to being the light and fun show. She watched some takes that made her want to laugh out loud. She said that it felt like S1 banter.

-- Arrow: Natalie noted that it's previously been teased that the Vigilante is someone familiar to the audience. SA told her that each of the villains this year is paired with a member of Team Arrow, like Anatoly is a villain for Oliver, and Black Siren is a villain for Black Canary. The same can be said for the Vigilante. SA now knows who the Vigilante is, but wouldn't tell Natalie who he is. He said only that the Vigilante is a villain, "if you want to call him that," for a member of the team. Natalie thought it was really interesting that SA's words hedged whether the Vigilante is a villain. She also reminded Kyle that the Vigilante doesn't know that Oliver and GA are the same person.

-- When Natalie visited the Arrow set, they were setting up outside for something "action-y" and "big". But what she saw being filmed was more "personal and intimate." She observed two scenes, but can't say who was involved. She also saw "a fascinating new set."

-- Kyle and Natalie then did a villain breakdown for each of the Arrowverse shows:

• Flash villains: Clifford DeVoe AKA The Thinker (metahuman with a mega mind, "the fastest mind alive," season-long battle with Team Flash), the Mechanic (DeVoe's right-hand woman, designs devices), Blacksmith (Katee Sackhoff, boss of underground market for super villains), and Gypsy's father Breacher (Danny Trejo, Earth 19 bounty hunter). 
• Arrow villains: Vigilante, Anatoly (back "with a vengeance" this year), Richard Dragon (Kirk Acevedo, hardened ex-con hellbent on taking over Star City's criminal underworld, master in hand-to-hand combat), Samanda Watson (Sydelle Noel, FBI agent investigating Oliver's ties to the GA), and mystery villain (Michael Emerson, might or might not be Cayden James). 
• Supergirl villains: Reign (bioengineered weapon, worldkiller), Psi (Yael Grobglas), and Morgan Edge (Adrian Pasdar, foil for Lena Luthor).
• LoT villains: Damian Darhk (darker version of last season's Legion of Doom Darhk, post-Arrow S4 Darhk), Eleanor Darhk ("Wednesday Addams all grown-up"), and Kuasa (sister of Mari McCabe and granddaughter of LoT's Vixen). Rip Hunter, while not a villain, will have an adversarial relationship with the Legends. Ava Sharp (Rip's #2 at the Bureau) will also bump heads a lot with Sara.

-- Kyle and Natalie ended the podcast by listing the 10 Supergirl episodes that are must-sees for fans of the #Sanvers (Alex/Maggie) relationship. Natalie also mentioned that her EW article will list 12 #Sanvers episodes.

Edited September 8, 2017 by tv echo

[bijoux]

Can someone remind me on which day she was on the Arrow set?

[tv echo]

23 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Can someone remind me on which day she was on the Arrow set?

ETA: Natalie also visited the OUaT set.

Edited September 8, 2017 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

52 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Arrow villains: Vigilante, Anatoly (back "with a vengeance" this year), Richard Dragon (Kirk Acevedo, hardened ex-con hellbent on taking over Star City's criminal underworld, master in hand-to-hand combat), Samanda Watson (Sydelle Noel, FBI agent investigating Oliver's ties to the GA), and mystery villain (Michael Emerson, might or might not be Cayden James). 

Ha, ha, no Black Siren on that list.  Some things you just can't accept.

I like the emphasis on the Kara/Alex relationship this year.  Maybe they really do listen to viewer reaction.

54 minutes ago, tv echo said:

-- The Flash: Barry and Iris are going into couples therapy this season. When Barry gets out of the Speed Force, it's been 6 months and Iris has taken charge of the team. To comedic effect, Barry and Iris keep accidentally clashing because they both feel like the leader of Team Flash. It leads them to go into couples therapy. Their reason for therapy is not just their butting heads as leader of Team Flash, but also because Barry had decided unilaterally to go into the Speed Force without talking to his fiance about it. Caitlin is the one who suggests that they go into couples therapy. We'll see a strengthening of the Iris-Caitlin relationship. Per AK, Barry and Iris will get married this season, but the question becomes: will they stay married with everything that comes up against them?

My question is whether they can stay married given Barry's decisions.

But I'm glad they're at least going to address Barry acting unilaterally all the time.  And yay for the Iris-Caitlin relationship, although I'm not holding my breath it will be anything substantial.

[LeighAn]

I love that Barry's obvious lack of respect for Iris is going to be played as "comedic effect". But sure The Flash writers respect their female characters. At least when the exact same issue came up between Olicity it became a catalyst for Felicity demanding better for herself from Oliver and actually led to interesting journeys of  growth in both characters. 

Edited September 8, 2017 by LeighAn

[Starfish35]

17 hours ago, Trini said:

What other pairing or scenes do you all want to see in the crossover?

For some reason, I'm having a hard time coming up with ideas. :(

Sara and Dinah - I want to see them work together and have some sort of conversation about the whole Canary thing - in introducing Dinah there's never to my knowledge been any sort of acknowledgement that there was a Canary before Laurel, and then how does Sara feel about someone else taking her sister's name (which she took first as a remembrance of her father)?

Barry and Oliver - I always enjoy the big brother/little brother relationship they tend to have.  

I want to see Diggle react to J'onn - I know we saw it in the fight club promo but I want to see it for real.  

Lyla and Alex would probably hit it off.  

I'd like to see Sara and Felicity working together - they were friends in the second season, but that's barely been acknowledged since.  Same for Felicity and Caitlin.  

Winn - it would be fun to see him geeking out on the Waverider.  And I really want to get Felicity back in the Waverider again.

That's all I can think of at the moment.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Starfish35

[Miss Dee]

 Well, Mick's my favourite so obviously I'm a fan of whatever interactions he ends up taking part in. But if I had to choose, I'd go with Mick and....

...Kara/Alex: Kara because him trying to flirt with her will never not be funny, and Alex because him getting turned on by her aggressive protection only to get shot down even worse would be funnier still.

...Oliver: Oliver knows a few things about trying to stay on the "good" side of the line while struggling with one's own darkness. I think he would gain Mick's respect quickly and maybe even end up mentoring him a little bit. And I can see Oliver being able to recognize Mick's worth a little quicker than most would.

...Felicity/Cisco/Winn: Mick getting stuck with babysitting the Nerd Squad on their techie adventures and slowly losing his mind is gold, Jerry, gold. Bonus points if he saves their asses and proves his worth and they make him an honourary squad member in the end (and you know he'd like that, despite himself).

...Ray: Because there can never be enough.

But really, I'd like just about any pairing or triad they can come up with if they really think about what those characters have in common (or not) and how they would logically interact given their personalities.

[Starfish35]

Mick and Oliver - I like that one!  Or Oliver and James - if James is determined to continue on the vigilante path, Oliver can give him some pointers. :)

Maybe Ray and Lena?  Ray was formerly a rich business owner and current science genius - maybe they can bond over that.

[Mellowyellow]

Felicity and Ray - Because I will NEVER let Raylicity go despite being a hard core Olicity shipper.  Hehe just kidding they can be best buds now. 

Felicity and Barry - Because I'm one of the few people who enjoyed her calling him pudding last season on Flash

Ray in general - agree with @Miss Dee that there can never be enough of that boy but would like to see him with Lena like suggested above. 

James and Thea - hehe I could ship that! He's so handsome and she's so cool

and most of all

Olicity - They've had some lovely old married couple moments in previous crossovers except the feral S5 one. Give me more of the old married behaviour please.

Edited September 9, 2017 by Mellowyellow

[Starfish35]

@strikera0 posted this in News and Media:

8 Useless Arrowverse Characters We Want Gone (And 7 We Desperately Want Back)

My thoughts:

15.  DOESN'T NEED: WILD DOG

I didn't watch enough of Arrow to make a call one way or the other on him.  I wasn't impressed with him in the crossover episode, but he didn't seem so bad in 510-512.  Still, ok, yeah, the show probably doesn't need him.

14. WANT BACK: RA’S AL GHUL

Seriously?  No.  Just....no.  The only one worse would be Vandal Savage. :(

13. DOESN’T NEED: DINAH DRAKE

It's hard to take this one seriously because of #12.  Does the show need a Black Canary?  No, but apparently someone thinks they do.  And I'd rather have this option than the next one.  Not to mention that the show needs another woman on the team, with whatever's going on with Thea.  It may as well be Dinah.

12. WANT BACK: LAUREL LANCE

My feelings on Laurel Lance are well documented.  To sum up, I thought she was a bad character and a terrible Black Canary.  So hell to the no on this one. 

11. DOESN’T NEED: GORILLA GRODD

I haven't seen the most recent Grodd episodes, but apparently he's going to be on Legends this next season and that should be entertaining.  So I guess I don't agree. 

10. WANT BACK: MAXWELL LORD

Yeah, I liked him, and he was a good antagonist for Supergirl and team in season one.  So agreed on that.

9. DOESN’T NEED: RIP HUNTER

I don't agree. While I enjoy having Sara as captain, Rip added something to the team that can't be replaced.  I will miss having him on the Waverider next season.

8. WANT BACK: ROY HARPER

Wholehearted agreement on this one.  I liked Roy a lot. And I loved Thea and Roy as a couple.  I'd like to see him return.

7. DOESN’T NEED: JOE WEST

I didn't watch season three of Flash.  In season one, Barry and Joe were the heart of the show, and I would have said definitely no.  But I don't know how things stand now.  However, based on seasons one and two, I'd say Flash definitely needs Joe, although I don't always agree with him, especially regarding his treatment of Iris.

6. WANT BACK: CAPTAIN COLD

Well, Cold is coming back on a recurring basis this next season, but I don't know how many episodes that will translate into.  I was upset when they killed him off, but it turns out I didn't miss him as much as I thought I would, and it seems it was Wentworth Miller's choice to leave.  So...yeah, I'll be happy to see Cold as much as we can, but I no longer consider him essential.

5. DOESN’T NEED: JAMES OLSEN

Unfortunately, yeah.  I'm honestly surprised they kept him for season three, because he seems to have turned into the Laurel of the show - a character they don't really know what to do with but still keep around because of their "iconic" status.

4. WANT BACK: HARRISON “HARRY” WELLS (EARTH TWO)

Ok, agreed.  Even though I no longer watch Flash, this version seems to be the best so far of the Wells.  But I hear he is coming back to some extent next season.

3. DOESN’T NEED: CLARK KENT

Disagree, although I think that's an unpopular opinion here.  I wouldn't want him around all the time, but I think the two season premiere episodes he was in last year were the episodes I enjoyed most out of the season.  

2. WANT BACK: CAT GRANT

Another unpopular opinion, but Cat's return at the end of the last season made me think that the show doesn't actually need her all that much.  I enjoyed her relationship with Kara in season one, but I think there can be a tendency/danger to push her into caricature territory.  

1. DOESN’T NEED: IRIS WEST

I don't agree that the show doesn't need Iris.  I do agree that the show has handled the character badly.   I'd like to hope for better things coming up for her, but their track record so far doesn't give one much reason to hope.

Edited September 9, 2017 by Starfish35

[wonderwall]

For me

15.  DOESN'T NEED: WILD DOG

I started to like him towards the end but I can do without him. Maybe make him go in and out but not a regular.

14. WANT BACK: RA’S AL GHUL

LOL no

13. DOESN’T NEED: DINAH DRAKE

I don't think the show needs any Black Canary. Dinah was boring and wallpaper in season 5. She has potential but I"d much rather focus on other characters

12. WANT BACK: LAUREL LANCE

Hard pass. Just because she had 5 episodes in a row where she didn't annoy us before she died doesn't mean she's a good character lol

8. WANT BACK: ROY HARPER

I don't need to see him return. The show has grown past Roy But I wouldn't mind seeing him come back for an episode to give Thea closure

7. DOESN’T NEED: JOE WEST

I think Joe has been far more important to Barry's journey than any other character. I think he needs to stay

4. WANT BACK: HARRISON “HARRY” WELLS (EARTH TWO)

I liked Harry Wells so sure!

1. DOESN’T NEED: IRIS WEST

The write up I agreed with. But that doesn't mean the show doesn't need her. If they used her properly she could be indispensable but apparently the writers don't really care about this.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Even though I like Roy, I'd be OK with none of the Arrow characters being on the show. Oh, and they should have added Curtis. 

[Starfish35]

I'd add Nate in the "Doesn't Need" column for Legends.

[wonderwall]

7 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Even though I like Roy, I'd be OK with none of the Arrow characters being on the show. Oh, and they should have added Curtis. 

I'm thinking their thought process was that if they added Curtis to the list it'd look suspiciously like the guy wants most the PoC characters to leave (which they do), and they dont' want to be called racists... LOL

[Delphi]

I actually think Cat Grant added a lot to the dynamic on Supergirl and I think early second season seriously floundered due to her lacking.   She's not... nice,  but somehow she manages yup breathe fresh air into the series. 

[insomniadreams88]

My thoughts: 

15.  DOESN'T NEED: WILD DOG

I will say that I would have agreed if we didn't get a better Rene starting with 509ish. And while I think the team is big enough, if we're going to lose one, I'd rather keep Rene over Curtis. That being said, my opinion could change depending on what we get in S6. But for now, I no longer mind him.

14. WANT BACK: RA’S AL GHUL

No. Let's leave it at that. (Although I did like him more on LoT than Arrow.)

13. DOESN’T NEED: DINAH DRAKE

I'll agree we don't need her, but I do like her and think they did a good job with the B team as a whole at the end of S5. And I'll take her over Laurel as BC if there must be one. 

12. WANT BACK: LAUREL LANCE

No. Death has to actually stick on this show, especially since they were so adamant that the S4 death was going to stick. 

11. DOESN’T NEED: GORILLA GRODD

For an episode or two, Grodd is fine and I am interested in the LoT plans. But not anything beyond one or two appearances across the Arrowverse in a season. So since we're getting Grodd on LoT, no Grodd on The Flash please.

10. WANT BACK: MAXWELL LORD

I don't particularly care? If they have a good story, yes. If not, I don't miss him. 

9. DOESN’T NEED: RIP HUNTER

Completely disagree. He's Arthur Darvill. There is always a need for Arthur Darvill on my TV screen. And I do like Rip. Plus, I really want him to meet Team Arrow. It's something I've wanted since season 4 even though I'll probably never get it. 

8. WANT BACK: ROY HARPER

YES. ALWAYS YES.

7. DOESN’T NEED: JOE WEST

Again, completely disagree, only partly because of my love for Jesse L. Martin. I've had my problems with Joe at times, but I don't think I'm ever going to want him gone.

6. WANT BACK: CAPTAIN COLD

Maybe? I like him, but he's popping up enough that I feel like I'm okay with what we get. 

5. DOESN’T NEED: JAMES OLSEN

I wish I didn't agree with this. One of the things I want most for Supergirl is a good storyline for James. I'm iffy on Guardian and I feel like they just don't know what to do with James. 

4. WANT BACK: HARRISON “HARRY” WELLS (EARTH TWO)

Yes. I hated HR, which was hard to do because I love Tom Cavanagh. 

3. DOESN’T NEED: CLARK KENT

Disagree. I think they used Clark relatively well, and I don't think they have any plans to change that. So let him come back for an episode or two again. 

2. WANT BACK: CAT GRANT

Yes, but perhaps on more of a recurring basis? Give me Cat for at least 10 episodes throughout the season. There was not nearly enough Cat last season, but I'm not sure she's needed on a regular basis anymore. 

1. DOESN’T NEED: IRIS WEST

No, we need Iris. We just need them to do better when it comes to her. 

[statsgirl]

Yeah, Nate is Doesn't Need for me.  I'd say Maggie on Supergirl as well because she's so one dimensional, she's only there to be a romantic partner for Alex which is why she's not going anywhere.

For me:

15.  DOESN'T NEED: WILD DOG

While he got better in the second half of the season where he was basically comic relief, I'd prefer him gone.  Maybe if he hadn't been in the gun episode, Felicity might have got a chance to have a POV. 

14. WANT BACK: RA’S AL GHUL

No, no and just no.  I'd like Nyssa back and maybe a recurring LoA but absolutely not Ra's.

13. DOESN’T NEED: DINAH DRAKE

Again, if she's in the background, okay. I like her better than Rene and now Curtis.

12. WANT BACK: LAUREL LANCE

They didn't know what to do with her when she was on the show.  Sorry, but having an iconic name doesn't translate into Must Have.

11. DOESN’T NEED: GORILLA GRODD

I felt sorry for Grodd in his first episode so I've skipped every one of his since.

10. WANT BACK: MAXWELL LORD

 I liked him but I'm not sure how he would fit into the show now that Cat Grant is gone and Alex is gay.  Lena Luthor has taken over his position.

9. DOESN’T NEED: RIP HUNTER

I like the eye candy. And he's a good contrast to Sara.

8. WANT BACK: ROY HARPER

Yes.  And yes.

7. DOESN’T NEED: JOE WEST

I agree with this one.   Joe is one of the most biased fathers on television.  Leaving might force Barry to grow up at last.

6. WANT BACK: CAPTAIN COLD

I really thought I'd miss him but I haven't at all, except in terms of his relationship with Sara.  Mick has really grown in his relationships with the rest of the team since Col has been gone.

5. DOESN’T NEED: JAMES OLSEN

I may be the only person who wants James to have more of a role on Supergirl but I do.  I want to see more of Catco and less of whatever stuff they gave me last season.

4. WANT BACK: HARRISON “HARRY” WELLS (EARTH TWO)

Eh.  I'd rather see a completely different version of him.

3. DOESN’T NEED: CLARK KENT

Agreed.  I think he tends to overwhelm everyone else on the show when he's on.

2. WANT BACK: CAT GRANT

I don't necessarily want Cat Grant back but I want what she brought to the show, which is a smart, cynical, intelligent player who wasn't overwhelmed by all the adoration it has for the alien stories.

1. DOESN’T NEED: IRIS WEST

The show desperately needs a strong rootable female presence.  As soon as they start writing her properly, maybe some of those female eyeballs Pedowitz wants will come back.

[SmallScreenDiva]

15 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I'm thinking their thought process was that if they added Curtis to the list it'd look suspiciously like the guy wants most the PoC characters to leave (which they do), and they dont' want to be called racists... LOL

I did wonder about that when I saw who the writer wanted gone. I would have kept Joe and added Curtis, though, LOL! I mean, c'mon! I don't even watch Flash anymore but I can't imagine Joe being made totally irrelevant. 

[statsgirl]

Joe isn't irrelevant but I don't like the direction  he pulls the show in like a magnet pulling the show in the direction of The Boys Fort. No Girls They Have Cooties. Curtis is annoying but he doesn't affect the direction of the show.

Mon El is another character who pulls the show in a direction I find less appealing.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I don't see much difference between Roy and WD..Roy had the luck to be introduced when they still cared to introduce masks as people first and to develop a person over seasons, not overnight. But they both went from "arrogant teenager" (and yes I know WD has never been a teenager but he acted like one) to nice guy so I find them interchangeable and my preference would be to have none of them, at least as regulars..

I wouldn't even know who to pick between Dinah and Laurel because even there as masks that stay in the background they are interchangeable but I'd probably pick Dinah because I find JH acting like she finds everyone sexy still amusing while the way KC played LL grated on my nerves.

I wouldn't get rid of Iris and instead I would give her an independent SL and have her call Barry on his BS more but I can imagine the reaction of whoever wrote that article if that happened, lol

[tv echo]

From SA's facebook yesterday - I can't tell if he's hinting at an AU Oliver for the crossovers or if his comment has no relevance at all to the crossovers...

-- SA said that he got briefed on the crossovers this week. Then he laughed and said: "If you don't hear from me for, like, five, six weeks, it's because they've cloned me, so I can be in more than one spot at one time. And I wouldn't ever want to send my clone just to talk to facebook live, just in case my clone's evil. That's how it normally works in movies. I don't know how it'll work for me. Maybe he'll be a good guy. Maybe he'll be nicer than I am. I'm not sure."

Edited September 9, 2017 by tv echo

[Midnight Lullaby]

Maybe he means he is going to be super busy?

[tv echo]

That's why I wasn't sure. Yeah, SA probably meant that he was just going to be very busy shooting for the crossovers. But he's said stuff at cons that sounded like off-the-cuff, flippant remarks, but then turned out to be spoilery hints.

Edited September 9, 2017 by tv echo

[Sakura12]

I think that just means that he's going to be super busy filming 4 shows at once. 

[leopardprint]

If E2 Oliver shows up then I doubt the EPs will be able to resist a stupid E2Oliver/BS storyline so I hope not. 

[Sakura12]

Isin't E2 Oliver dead? Robert Queen is the Green Arrow on Earth 2. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

If you guys keep talking about E2 (even if you hate the idea), I think there's a danger you might will it into existence :P

I just don't think Arrow is interested that at all. When I see the responses from the EPs, it sounds more like what you say to your kid when you just want to put them off or head off their nagging. I don't think they're that much interested in E2 or any other earths for that matter. But just like when BS got some buzz from getting punched in 510, there's a danger, IMO, that TPTB will interpret it as interest to see more of other earths. 

[way2interested]

32 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

When I see the responses from the EPs, it sounds more like what you say to your kid when you just want to put them off or head off their nagging. I don't think they're that much interested in E2 or any other earths for that matter. 

Ha, a lot of their talk about Black Siren in general sounds like that, so I don't think that 510 actually translated into buzz, more like keeping options like E2 and other aspects from the other shows open for them to use later.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Maybe. I remember seeing a lot of "KC is so much better at being a villain" buzz on social media and in reviews after 510 came out. I mean, there was a lot of that here on this forum, including I admit from me. 

Anyway, if Arrow were smart (and it almost never is) it won't ever touch powers, magic, alternate universes ever again.

[Delphi]

I mean,  Katie playing a better villain isn't exactly a compliment.   The majority of comments didn't even say she played a great villain.   I think it was mostly more along the lines of,  "Oh, nice,  she's not as terrible here."

[way2interested]

3 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Maybe. I remember seeing a lot of "KC is so much better at being a villain" buzz on social media and in reviews after 510 came out. I mean, there was a lot of that here on this forum, including I admit from me. 

Yeah, reviewers and social media said stuff like that, but EPs haven't really acknowledged it as such, which was my point. They were more about "it's great to have KC back," "we think she's great in this role," "this opens up interesting dynamics for Lance/Dinah/Oliver," rather than "we love this character and writing for this character and it seems that everyone else is super interested in her, let's write more!" Or at least from where I see it.

[SmallScreenDiva]

9 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Yeah, reviewers and social media said stuff like that, but EPs haven't really acknowledged it as such, which was my point. They were more about "it's great to have KC back," "we think she's great in this role," "this opens up interesting dynamics for Lance/Dinah/Oliver," rather than "we love this character and writing for this character and it seems that everyone else is super interested in her, let's write more!" Or at least from where I see it.

I agree, I don't think they'll ever say say they love writing for the character because it would be a lie, LOL! But going back to my original point, which is that enough buzz about something might bring it into existence. There was enough buzz there it seems that somebody higher up was able to make the argument for TPTB to foist KC once again on Arrow. The same argument could be made for E2 if people keep talking about it. Not saying it WILL be made, just that it COULD be made. Doesn't matter that you and I or even the writers don't buy into the buzz surrounding KC's 510 appearance, the EPs used it to justify her inclusion into the show again. That's why I'm a little wary about E2 spec because I fear it, too, could be brought into existence with enough chatter. 

[way2interested]

7 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

The same argument could be made for E2 if people keep talking about it. Not saying it WILL be made, just that it COULD be made. Doesn't matter that you and I or even the writers don't buy into the buzz surrounding KC's 510 appearance, the EPs used it to justify her inclusion into the show again. That's why I'm a little wary about E2 spec because I fear it, too, could be brought into existence with enough chatter. 

Ah, I understand what you mean now. Although, I just disagree with the fear. I think TPTB/EPs have kind of made clear that they don't want/intend to do any of the fantastical elements for Arrow anymore. Like, the moments in s5 were connected to other elements that TPTB wanted rather than "people are talking about this, let's keep them/put them in." Ragman was just a DC property they were allowed to use to do their newbies plot not necessarily a plan to keep magic in the plot (and Rory was dropped anyway, seemingly never intended to be a permanent fixture even though a bunch of people online wanted him to come back or stay), Dinah was because TPTB wanted a female superhero and that BC needed to come back while the EPs made her a metahuman to solidify her as the next BC rather people talking about wanting to introduce more metahumans, BS was a was to bring KC back rather than to bring E2 into the mix, etc. 

If E2 was brought into the mix, I think it would be more because something else is being pushed that they think would be more dynamic (ex: Instead of making all of the newbies normal people, why not throw someone with powers in the mix? To solidify Dinah as the newest BC why not make her a metahuman like the comics? To keep Laurel's death still canon but make sure we can still ingratiate KC into the plot why not use E2?) if they used E2 rather than just introducing it. 

[statsgirl]

I remember the EPs saying that KC was so brave to play the Black Siren as evil.  Which made me roll my eyes because playing evil is always more fun than playing good.  I wonder if the response to Black Siren on Arrow plus the success of the League of Doom on LoT triggered the idea of having a villain for each Team Arrow member season 6.

How would you guys feel about an Oliver from Supergirl's Earth in the crossover?

[Primal Slayer]

I for one think they should explore the E-37 (I think it's 37, Supergirls Earth) version of some of the characters instead of just ignoring it, same with exploring a verison of Kara on Earth 1. Krypton could still be intact or she could have landed in Russia or being experimented on. But it makes for a good episode.

[Xander]

2 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

I for one think they should explore the E-37 (I think it's 37, Supergirls Earth) version of some of the characters instead of just ignoring it, same with exploring a verison of Kara on Earth 1. Krypton could still be intact or she could have landed in Russia or being experimented on. But it makes for a good episode.

Barry couldn't find Star Labs or any of his team on Earth-38 so there's a good chance they don't exist there.

[Primal Slayer]

30 minutes ago, Xander said:

Barry couldn't find Star Labs or any of his team on Earth-38 so there's a good chance they don't exist there.

Yeah I like to ignore that, or think maybe they are heroes who are trapped somewhere or erased somehow.

[Trini]

6 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

I for one think they should explore the E-37 (I think it's 37, Supergirls Earth) version of some of the characters instead of just ignoring it, same with exploring a verison of Kara on Earth 1. Krypton could still be intact or she could have landed in Russia or being experimented on. But it makes for a good episode.

I've wanted them to do that too; I think it'd be a great way to have a "crossover" without having to bother with dimensional travel rules, etc. I've always liked seeing alternate versions of characters. Barry didn't specifically say he couldn't find the Wests, so I'm still holding out hope that Iris could be on Supergirl at some point. Maybe they have different names like how Jay Garrick is the 'Henry Allen' of Earth-3. And they could totally do "Kara" on Earth-1 if they use Powergirl. (But there are also other versions of Supergirl they could draw from.)

(it's Earth-38, btw.)

[tv echo]

From this weekend's Rose City Comic Con (Carlos Valdes & Danielle Panabaker panel on Saturday, Katee Sackhoff panel on Friday)...

Apparently some version of Cisco will appear in Freedom Fighters: The Ray...

[tv echo]

Even just based on what's written below, I don't understand why the Arrow quote was ranked so much lower on the list than the Flash quote and some other quotes (I agree 100% with the #1 rank for the Firefly quote, but I think the X-Files quote should've been ranked much higher)...

ETA: I just re-read the article and noticed the following statement: "Please note: Our lists are not ranked; all items have equal standing in our brains." Nonetheless, the list certainly appears to be ranked, because they're not listed in alphabetical order or any other kind of logical order that I can tell. So did they just randomly throw quotes on the list as they thought of them? If that's the case, the Flash and Arrow quotes should've been right next to each other.

25 OF THE BEST TV QUOTES FROM THE LAST 25 YEARS
Lucas Siegel    Sep. 9, 2017
http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/25-of-the-best-tv-quotes-from-the-last-25-years

Quote

17. “Run, Barry, run!” – The Flash
.  .  .
While it’s not quite the same as Arrow’s powerful mission statement, this one is certainly fitting for a character whose primary ability is running quickly. There’s something inspiring about hearing it – it’s the easy, little way to tell someone you believe in them, and we smile every time we hear it (or a variation on the theme).
*  *  *
25. “You have failed this city.” – Arrow
.  .  .
When Arrow launched, no one knew it would be the start of an entire universe of stories and DC characters coming to The CW. But with this simple, five-word phrase, fans got behind the future Green Arrow instantly. It was the perfect Season 1 mission statement – the people on his list did something that Starling City could not abide. Now, you believed in Arrow and his cause, even if he didn’t know what it was really about back then.

1. “Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!” – Firefly
2. “Crackers don’t matter.” – Farscape
3. “Driver picks the music, shotgun shuts his cakehole.” – Supernatural
4. “Evil beware: We have waffles!” – Teen Titans
5. “Frak!” – Battlestar Galactica
6. “From them rose millions of tiny maggots. Maggots? Maggots. Maggots. Maggots. Maggots.” – Garth Merenghi’s Darkplace
7.“The hardest thing in this world, is to live in it.” – Buffy
8.“Hodor.” – Game of Thrones
9. “I’m so embarrassed. I wish every else was dead!” – Futurama
10. “I drink and I know things.” – Game of Thrones
11. “Indeed.” – Stargate
12. “It appears we have lost our sex appeal, Captain.” – Star Trek: Voyager
13.“It’s all because of that temptress. She tricked my son with her carnal manipulations and he fell right into her vagenda!” – Fringe
14. “Look at the flowers.” – The Walking Dead
15. “Make it So” – Star Trek: The Next Generation
16. “Save the cheerleader, save the world!” – Heroes
17. “Run, Barry, run!” – The Flash
18. “So say we all” – Battlestar Galactica
19. “Spoilers!” – Doctor Who
20. “Surprise, bitch.” – American Horror Story: Coven
21. “… Timey wimey… stuff” – Doctor Who
22. “The truth is out there.” – The X-Files
23. “We have to go back!” – Lost
24. “You moon-faced assassin of joy.” – Babylon 5
25. “You have failed this city.” – Arrow

Edited September 10, 2017 by tv echo

[Starfish35]

Patty Jenkins Closes Deal to Direct ‘Wonder Woman’ Sequel (EXCLUSIVE)

And I thought this was interesting:

Why It's A Big Deal That Patty Jenkins Is Directing 'Wonder Woman 2'

Edited September 12, 2017 by Starfish35

[Karlophe]

Already posted in the Supergirl thread, but CW released her official season three trailer today: 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=irH6gtcR4Dk

So hopefully that means the other shows aren't far behind? I can't remember how timely the consecutive trailer releases were last year. The only one I'm thinking might not give us much new material is Legends since they just released another trailer with Vixen, but I'm still expecting an upcoming official vid for them too.

[way2interested]

I think last year the new promos mostly came a week or two right before the shows came back, so it might be a little while longer before all of the shows follow-up. CW still might be pretending that Arrow's cast is dead (EK not even having his new promo photos in the new promo video while JH and KC who are both confirmed to be alive both still have their new promos), so I'm not holding my breath on too new footage, but probably some more action shots from 603-605, like the other shows.

Edited September 12, 2017 by way2interested

[Karlophe]

That makes sense. Scheduling as you mentioned probably has something to do with it too (filming more action shots for Arrow and the Killer Frost vfx from the girl's night episode, etc.) but I wish the releases weren't going to be so disparate if we do end up waiting that long. And for goodness sake...

2 hours ago, way2interested said:

CW still might be pretending that Arrow's cast is dead

...leave it to the network to carry on charading when literally all the Arrowverse EP's have been confirming and denying major plot points for all their shows for weeks now. This is why we can't have nice things. ?

Edited September 12, 2017 by Karlophe
typo