Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, Delphi said:

... really,  half of my favourite characters.   Clearly I'm watching a different show.  I saw Nyssa and got enraged, but then Martin!!  He can't have his maybe,  hopefully twenty years left?  These people are monsters. 

Nyssa's made me angry because of how the writer talked about Talia for half of it before bashing Nyssa. Clearly we don't watch the same show because Nyssa is far from uninteresting and not relevant. Talia was the uninteresting one. She barely even appeared in the season! 

But I will give the writer of that article Nate and Hank Henshaw. Their reason for Wild Dog's death is pretty dumb. 'He's a punching bag and not a true comics creation, so instead of fixing him, let's kill him off!'. And I don't even LIKE the character. 

Thea's reason was easy to forget as soon as they mentioned her being dead, since that has never ever happened on this show. Oh wait, they're talking about the time when she was ALMOST dead and had to take a dip in the Pit. Yep, just proves to me that the writer doesn't know the show at all and probably read Twitter before writing this article. I also disagreed with Martin's reasoning, although the writer got me to laugh with the picture they chose. 

I hated Ray on Arrow, but found myself liking him on Legends. That being said, the writer has proven that they'll never be able to write for a TV show or movie, because they'd just end up killing characters when they're not done right by them. "Oops, this character is kind of flakey? TIME TO DIE, MY PRECIOUS!" "This person doesn't fit in with all of the main cast? Guess what time it is? IT'S DYING TIME!" "This person is important to the main character? Well, let's see how important THROUGH DEATH!"

Like, dude, dying isn't the answer to every problem. Choose life. 

[Delphi]

I didn't actually read the article,  I refuse to give it clicks.   I'm just commenting obb what's posted here. 

[BkWurm1]

12 hours ago, bijoux said:

What happened with Malcolm at the end of LoT's season? Was his memory erased like Darhk's or did he come back on Arrow with the full knowledge of what he was doing with the LoD?

Yes, his memory was erased and he was returned to the timeline, exactly where he was taken.  And given his mindset on LoT, it's a miracle he didn't join Chase in his quest.  

6 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Since this article was mentioned in the News and Media thread, I thought I'd bring it here for discussion and/or mocking purposes.  

15 Arrowverse Characters Who NEED TO DIE

15. Quentin Lance

14. Citizen Steel

13. Nyssa al Ghul 

12. Hank Henshaw

11.  Wild Dog

10.  Thea Queen

9.  Martin Stein

8.  Black Siren

7.  The Atom

6.  Killer Frost

5.  Maggie Sawyer

4.  J'onn J'onzz

3.  John Diggle

2.  Joe West

1.  Felicity Smoak

Clearly for Arrow, they just want a totally different show.  

Quote

Nyssa's made me angry because of how the writer talked about Talia for half of it before bashing Nyssa. Clearly we don't watch the same show because Nyssa is far from uninteresting and not relevant. Talia was the uninteresting one. She barely even appeared in the season! 

This is something I keep running across.  Talia's the bigger name in the comics so they don't care that Nyssa is more important to the Flarrowverse.  I don't know why it shocked me so much.  For some, comic history is always more important, even from people that had previously claimed to love Nyssa.  Frankly, the only reason IMO for keeping Talia around is so they can bring her back with Nyssa again. I want more on that.  (Maybe on LoT?) 

Edited June 1, 2017 by BkWurm1

[bijoux]

@BkWurm1, thanks.

[Starfish35]

56 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Clearly for Arrow, they just want a totally different show.  

Lol yeah apparently.

59 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

This is something I keep running across.  Talia's the bigger name in the comics so they don't care that Nyssa is more important to the Flarrowverse.  I don't know why it shocked me so much.  For some, comic history is always more important, even from people that had previously claimed to love Nyssa.  Frankly, the only reason IMO for keeping Talia around is so they can bring her back with Nyssa again. I want more on that.  (Maybe on LoT?) 

We can only hope.  But yeah it's bizarre.  

[tv echo]

I suspected that Arrow's sfx budget was lower than the other shows, but I'm surprised by how much lower...

The Flash: Kevin Smith compares the digital effects to Arrow's [VIDEO]
CHANCELLOR AGARD MAY 31, 2017 
http://ew.com/tv/2017/05/31/the-flash-kevin-smith-effects-dvd/

Quote

Kevin Smith (Yoga Hosers) is giving fans the inside scoop on his approach to directing The Flash and Supergirl in a new bonus featurette that will accompany The Flash: The Complete Third Season and Supergirl: The Complete Second Season —and EW has your exclusive first look at it.

In the above snippet from the bonus content, the lifelong comic book fan, who has directed two episodes of The Flash and Supergirl, sits down with executive producer Andrew Kreisberg to discuss how Arrow differs from the other shows in the Berlantiverse, specifically when it comes to the visual effects budget.

“Arrow seems of a different feather than Supergirl and The Flash, not the least of which is like, they’ve got superpowers and this guy has just got a bow and arrow,” says Smith.

“The visual effects budget of Arrow is literally a tenth [of Supergirl and The Flash],” explains Kreisberg, adding that the arrows are created digitally. “It’s a lot of stunt-work. It’s all practical by design.”

My transcription from video in article...

Kevin Smith: “Like, Arrow seems of a different feather than Supergirl and Flash, not the least of which is like, they’ve got superpowers and this guy's just got a bow and arrow." 
Andrew Kreisberg: "Well, that alone - I mean, the - the - the visual effects budget of Arrow is literally a tenth... " 
Smith (interrupts): "Shooting arrows." 
Kreisberg: "It's just that arr - the arrows are digital."  
Smith: "The rest is the physical stunts, which they do an amazing job of."
Kreisberg: "Right. So it's a lot of stunt-work. It's a lot - you know, it’s all practical. By design.”

Edited June 2, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

This is kinda neat (except for the spelling error)...

WONDER WOMAN - 8-Bit Trailers
Published on May 31, 2017, by JoBlo Videos

[Cleanqueen]

So that article basically wants a GA, BC and Curtis show? Yeah that would definitely get renewed for another season.

[leopardprint]

3 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

So that article basically wants a GA, BC and Curtis show? Yeah that would definitely get renewed for another season.

Sometimes only Mugatu can truly express my feelings about these articles. 

Edited June 1, 2017 by leopardprint

[statsgirl]

6 hours ago, tv echo said:

I suspected that Arrow's sfx budget was lower than the other shows, but I'm surprised by how much lower...

The Flash: Kevin Smith compares the digital effects to Arrow's [VIDEO]
CHANCELLOR AGARD MAY 31, 2017 
http://ew.com/tv/2017/05/31/the-flash-kevin-smith-effects-dvd/

My transcription from video in article:

Kevin Smith: “Like, Arrow seems of a different feather than Supergirl and Flash, not the least of which is like, they’ve got superpowers and this guy's just got a bow and arrow." 
Andrew Kreisberg: Well, that alone - I mean, the - the - the visual effects budget of Arrow is literally a tenth... " 
Smith (interrupts): "Shooting arrows." 
Kreisberg: "It's just that arr - the arrows are digital."  
Smith: "The rest is the physical stunts, which they do an amazing job of."
Kreisberg: "Right. So it's a lot of stunt-work. It's a lot - you know, it’s all practical. By design.”

Totally shameless.  Let's strip Arrow for our high profile superheroes.  And Arrow is still ten times the show The Flash or Supergirl is.

[wonderwall]

I'm sure the cost to do VFX isn't cheap...

So Supergirl/LoT getting similar ratings to Arrow and having 10x the amount of the VFX budget? That's not a great sign....

Although Arrow does use Bamford a lot more, I wonder if that stunt team costs that much though. Hmm

[apinknightmare]

Does Arrow even need much VFX? Apart from last season with that idiotic magic stuff, they just need the arrows, and the canary cry, I guess. Some explosions here and there. No one flies or has the runs like Barry. Not to mention all the meta opponents on The Flash (and I'm assuming there are some super-powered villains on Supergirl - IDK, I don't watch it). This doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me.

Edited June 1, 2017 by apinknightmare

[way2interested]

Would Arrow's cast budget also be a bit more (at least compared to Flash and s2 of Supergirl), since Arrow has about 2-3 years over the other shows?

[wonderwall]

Just now, way2interested said:

Would Arrow's cast budget also be a bit more (at least compared to Flash and s2 of Supergirl), since Arrow has about 2-3 years over the other shows?

I really really doubt it :/

[Chaser]

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Does Arrow even need much VFX? Apart from last season with that idiotic magic stuff, they just need the arrows, and the canary cry, I guess. Some explosions here and there. No one flies or has the runs like Barry. Not to mention all the meta opponents on The Flash (and I'm assuming there are some super-powered villains on Supergirl - IDK, I don't watch it). This doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me.

Eventually they will need to show that moon he shoots for. Enough teasing.

[wonderwall]

Just now, Chaser said:

Eventually they will need to show that moon he shoots for. Enough teasing.

It's shy, leave it be 

[bijoux]

17 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

No one flies or has the runs like Barry.

My inner 8 year old boy is rolling right now.

[leopardprint]

No superpowers, but all those wigs cost money too, people. 

[BkWurm1]

59 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

No superpowers, but all those wigs cost money too, people. 

They broke out wig money on The Flash this year as well.

[strikera0]

Flash's season 4 villain has been revealed

It's Clifford DeVoe aka The Thinker. 

Edited June 1, 2017 by raven
removed spoiler tags

[ruby24]

I still think it's a mistake to play up one villain for 23 episodes. Especially on this show because it's impossible to do it without casting a shadow of gloom over the overall tone, which has been the problem for the last two seasons. It needs to go back to being light and funny, and they can't do that if they're bogged down with one villain like this, that they know can't be defeated until May.

[Cleanqueen]

How will Barry fight a non speedster though? Also are we going to have the mystery of trying to figure out his identity for another 23 episodes?

I agree with Ruby, the  main villain for 23 episodes formula is something these shows need to get rid of. They should have a main theme but not a villain that only shows up 6-7 episodes max the whole season but takes over every aspect of the show.

[ruby24]

Well, this guy's at least a human, and looking up his comics history, there's more potential here for him to interact with Barry and Joe at CCPD (given his career), which could be an improvement. Maybe a little more like Season 1 Harrison Wells and less the "monster in the mask" like Zoom and Savitar were. 

I would just prefer most of the season to be fun, villains of the week stuff in order to sustain the fun, funny tone of the first season again.

[Primal Slayer]

3 hours ago, way2interested said:

Would Arrow's cast budget also be a bit more (at least compared to Flash and s2 of Supergirl), since Arrow has about 2-3 years over the other shows?

I would think Supergirls cast  budget would be higher since they came from CBS and i doubt they took pay cuts.

3 hours ago, way2interested said:

Would Arrow's cast budget also be a bit more (at least compared to Flash and s2 of Supergirl), since Arrow has about 2-3 years over the other shows?

I would think Supergirls cast  budget would be higher since they came from CBS and i doubt they took pay cuts.

[raven]

Hi everyone!

Just a reminder that spoiler tags for the Arrowverse and other Superverses are not necessary in this topic.

[ruby24]

The Flash is the kind of show that would benefit from a much less serialized approach, in terms of the threats, imo. Maybe have some two or three-parters throughout the season instead.

[scarynikki12]

Back from Wonder Woman:

YOU GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[tv echo]

Sigh...

Gotham Exclusive: Inside Ra’s al Ghul’s Debut
Jun. 1, 2017  by Albert Ching
http://www.cbr.com/gotham-ras-al-ghuls-debut-alexander-siddig/

[tv echo]

More Superhero Shows Raise the Bar for Television Stuntwork
Todd Longwell   Jun. 1, 2017
http://variety.com/2017/artisans/awards/more-superhero-shows-raise-the-bar-for-television-stuntwork-1202449381/

Quote

While most of the shows’ protagonists are gifted with superhuman powers, the stunt teams still have to keep the action grounded in reality.

“We like to make sure that the laws of gravity are adhered to,” says James Bamford, stunt coordinator for CW’s “Arrow.” “You won’t see floaty wire work or a lot of unmotivated acrobatics.”
*  *  *
One of most challenging aspects of doing stunts for television is the schedule, which typically allows only eight days to shoot a one-hour episode.
*  *  *
The CW’s quartet of DC Comics series — “Arrow,” “The Flash,” “Supergirl” and “Legends of Tomorrow” — have an advantage over other superhero shows. They all film in Vancouver, a popular shooting location where the rules allow the individual stunt teams to share equipment and expertise, and they find the time to shoot elaborate pre-visualizations of each episode’s big action sequences. Typically there are three of these per show.

“Our stunt performers do the lines, and we put in music, our version of visual effects and sound effects and all the Foley work, so the director can look at it and make changes they want,” says J.J. Makaro, who oversaw the stunts on all four CW shows.

The car flips could only be done once and the crew had just a three-hour window to get the shot. “It’s like going to war,” says “Supergirl” stunt coordinator Simon Burnett. “When you get out of it and it’s successful, it’s a great feeling.”

Edited June 2, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

INJUSTICE 2 REVIEW
By Blair Nokes on June 1, 2017
http://www.gamingunion.net/reviews/2017/injustice-2

Quote

Much like the first Injustice, Injustice 2 is crammed full of fan service with a wonderfully diverse array of heroes, many of whom I had not anticipated would make a video game debut. Some entries are understandable; with the growing population of CW’s The Flash, characters like Firestorm, Gorilla Grodd, and Captain Cold seem like marketable inclusions. The same applies to characters like Black Canary to coincide with CW’s Arrow. And despite the questionable reception, Suicide Squad had made easy room for characters like Deadshot and obviously Harley Quinn. What surprised me, were characters like Atrocitus – who I previously had no idea of but was quick to adore thanks to his awesome Cat companion who also happens to possess a Red Lantern. NetherRealm definitely thought outside the box with the roster, and made room for lesser known heroes and villains like Doctor Fate, Blue Beetle, Cheetah, and my personal favourite – Swamp Thing.

[tv echo]

Regarding Arrow's sfx budget, I wonder if that's why they got rid of Ragman. Maybe they couldn't afford both the magic flowing rags and the canary cry.

I'm curious as to whether Arrow's overall budget is also lower than that of the other CW DC shows.

Edited June 2, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

While I didn't think Arrow S5 was all that great in the first half of the season and only pulled it together in the back half, I found this article to make some good points.  I didn't watch The Flash this season, so I can't comment on those criticisms (except that they seem on point based on what I've read in this thread). Bonus points to this writer for calling Barry Allen "the stupidest superhero ever"...

The Flash wasn’t fun in Season 3, while Arrow soared in Season 5, becoming polar opposites
Barry screwed up the timeline so bad, it turned Arrow into the best CW show.
By Liam McGuire on May 26, 2017
http://thecomeback.com/pop-culture/flash-wasnt-fun-arrow-soared-in-polar-opposite-seasons.html

Quote

Three Reasons why Arrow was great in Season 5

1. Strong villain with connections to the past:
*  *  *
Prometheus is the first worthy villain the Green Arrow has had since Deathstroke mostly because actor Josh Segarra absolutely nails the part of the twisted, yet extremely calculated baddie. Unfortunately, Chase kills himself to blow up everyone Oliver loves, but if the show ever wants to revisit the character, Segarra has earned the right to come back.

2. New character roster/sidekicks
*  *  *
Although he didn’t last a full season, Ragman was also a welcome addition. Joe Dinicol played Ragman, a lone survivor of the Havenrock nuclear bomb (like I said, Season 4 wasn’t great), with mystical rags and a great comedic presence. He wasn’t asked to do too much, but Ragman was a great, nonsensical addition. Plus, despite a modest budget, the special effects team sold his goofy ability.

It wouldn’t be fair not to also give props to Juliana Harkavy, who gave Team Arrow the most comic-book faithful version of Black Canary. Madison McLaughlin played the double-crossing Artemis well, Chad Coleman had a great four-episode stint as a street-level villain and freaking Dolph Lundgren made the flashbacks great again.

3. Flashbacks had an endgame
*  *  *
Honestly, the worst part of Arrow for the previous two seasons was the pointless flashbacks. Season 4 featured some of the biggest filler I’ve ever seen from a TV show. If I never have to see Taiana Venediktov’s face again, I’ll be happy. So it was a big surprise when Season 5 delivered an entertaining flashback that felt like it had a point.
*  *  *
Three Reasons why The Flash regressed in season three

1. Promising “Flashpoint” and delivering… not much
*  *  *
Instead, Flashpoint lasted a single episode, had little-to-no effect besides plot conveniences, created the villain Savitar and changed Diggle’s baby from a boy to a girl. Talk about lame.

2. Characters with nothing to do
*  *  *
Man oh man, if you were a supporting character on The Flash who wasn’t played by Jesse L. Martin, Tom Cavanaugh or Carlos Valdes, you were given little to work with.

First of all, The Flash attempted to fix its Caitlin problem of making her a constant love interest by… giving her a love interest? Yes, Harry Potter actor Tom Felton was wasted as Julian Albert, a CSI whose sole purpose was to help introduce Savitar and fawn over Caitlin. Meanwhile, the Flash writers messed up big-time by having Caitlin’s metahuman powers automatically make her evil. Literally, no other metahuman turned evil just for the sake of it. This was a plot convenience at its worst, despite actress Danielle Panabaker’s best attempt at making the character interesting.
*  *  *
Should it come as a surprise that Iris West, once again, had little to do but fawn over Barry? Literally, Candice Patton had NOTHING to do all season except wait for her character’s prophesied death. Patton displayed a great emotional range, but seeing a badass Iris in an Earth 2 episode last season made viewers want to see more of that character. It seems Flash writers have forgotten Iris is supposed to be a good journalist who can do so much more than pat Barry on the back when he fucks up the timeline further. (Seriously, is Barry Allen the stupidest superhero ever? so much self-inflicted damage.)

3. Villain problem / same formula
*  *  *
The worst problem with Season 3 was the show played it safe and stuck to the same formula — again.

Season 1: The Flash faces off against a speedster villain (Reverse Flash) who wants to be the fastest, who turns out to be a member of his team (Eobard Thawne).

Season 2: The Flash faces off against a speedster villain (Zoom) who wants to be the fastest, who turns out to be a member of his team (Hunter Zolomon).

Season 3: The Flash faces off against a speedster villain (Savitar) who wants to be the fastest, who turns out to be a member of his team (Barry from a different timeline).

Edited June 2, 2017 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

20 hours ago, way2interested said:

Would Arrow's cast budget also be a bit more (at least compared to Flash and s2 of Supergirl), since Arrow has about 2-3 years over the other shows?

Certainly not Supergirl, all of the S1 regulars have those nice, fat CBS contracts which pays a lot more than The CW.

[way2interested]

For Supergirl, I actually meant in terms of the new regulars who came afterwords once the show was on the CW like Chris or Floriana compared to say EK who returned to s5 as a regular or the regulars in general for Arrow, but then forgetting Supergirl, would Flash's cast (not counting TC or JLM) have higher pay compared to Arrow even though Arrow's been around longer?

[Morrigan2575]

Not sure I understand. Supergirl/Arrow/Flash noob contracts wouldn't depend on the year the show is in when they're added.

The only actors contracts that would get expensive would be original actors that have gone through renegotiation. 

[way2interested]

Just now, Morrigan2575 said:

Not sure I understand. Supergirl/Arrow/Flash noob contracts wouldn't depend on the year the show is in when they're added.

The only actors contracts that would get expensive would be original actors that have gone through renegotiation. 

Sorry, I meant more of being on a show longer. Like, would EK's contract for s5 be more expensive than Chris Wood's or Floriana's for s2 since EK was already recurring for a year before, but then again I'm thinking that that would just be a standard contract for the network. Then, since I'm not sure what renegotiation status is for any of the Flash cast, offhand would casts who have been around longer be more likely to have gone through negotiations and gotten increased pay that makes them technically more expensive (comparing say SA, EBR, and DR to GG, CP, and CV). 

[Morrigan2575]

2 hours ago, way2interested said:

Sorry, I meant more of being on a show longer. Like, would EK's contract for s5 be more expensive than Chris Wood's or Floriana's for s2 since EK was already recurring for a year before, but then again I'm thinking that that would just be a standard contract for the network. Then, since I'm not sure what renegotiation status is for any of the Flash cast, offhand would casts who have been around longer be more likely to have gone through negotiations and gotten increased pay that makes them technically more expensive (comparing say SA, EBR, and DR to GG, CP, and CV). 

Casts budget goes up when actors go through renegotiations, some Flash and Arrow actors went through renegotiation this year (I don't know which ones)

Actors appearing as guest stars wouldn't make their series regular contract more expensive, Guest Stars have standard rates, Series Regular contracts would have different negotiated rates based on status/level of the actor, Barrowman would obviously make more than Echo.  

Edited June 2, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[leopardprint]

Would Arrow be renegotiating for S7 or after S7?

Curious to see what happens to the show next year with the ratings slide and a star that is aging out of the CW's preferred demo. 

[Starfish35]

3 hours ago, strikera0 said:

Another Most Annoying Arrowverse Couples list. This time from CBR. Here's how they ranked them for people who don't want to give the site any clicks:

1. Oliver/Felicity

2. Vandal Savage/Hawkgirl (LOT)

3. Ray Palmer/Hawkgirl (LOT)

4. Caitlin Snow/Ronnie Raymond (The Flash)

5. Oliver/Sara Lance

6. Barry Allen/Patty Spivot (The Flash)

7. Oliver/Susan Williams

8. Winn/Siobhan Smythe (Supergirl)

9. James Olsen/Lucy Lane (Supergirl)

10. Kara/Adam Grant (Supergirl)

11. Nate/Amaya (LOT)

12. Barry Allen/Linda Park (The Flash)

13. Moira Queen/Malcolm Merlyn 

14. Laurel Lance/Tommy Merlyn 

15. Kara/James Olsen (Supergirl)

Leaving the Olicity vs Lauriver issue to be discussed over in News and Media....

Lol.  I actually liked a lot of these.  Barry/Linda and Barry/Patty were both cute.     Kara had more chemistry with Adam than she had with anyone else in season one IMO.  I liked James and Lucy.   I actually liked Winn and Siobhan if Siobhan hadn't gone dark side.  

Nate and Amaya - ok, I'll give them that one.  And Oliver and Susan.  

Caitlin and Ronnie were a good pairing I thought.  And I was probably one of the only ones that liked Ray and Kendra, but if they're going to put them on there, they should have added the excruciatingly dull Carter/Kendra pairing.  Kendra would have been a better character IMO if she'd been able to shed that baggage for good.

Savage/Hawkgirl was not a pairing, unless stalking and murdering someone through time makes a pairing now.  But I'll give them that it was annoying.

ETA:  apparently they've changed it - Nate/Amaya has now been replaced with Rip/Gideon. 

Edited June 2, 2017 by Starfish35

[Guest]

Wonder Woman was awesome! I loved every second of it. 

[ruby24]

I hated Barry/Patty. I always thought she was only there so that they could show the audience Barry wasn't a virgin before getting him and Iris together. Only because he's a guy is that SO important to make sure people know, otherwise he's emasculated and he and Iris aren't on the same level, right? Please. 

Agents of Shield never had that issue with Fitz, who was never shown to have any interest in or any girlfriend before Jemma, even after she'd had that weird fling with the space planet guy. I admired them for that.

Edited June 2, 2017 by ruby24

[scarynikki12]

Dude, Rip and Gideon are the perfect LOT OTP.

[Mellowyellow]

Awww that reminds me of the very cute scene to show FitzSimmons finally hooking up. It was no Olicity sex scene but it was so so so adorably FitzSimmons and very true to the characters! 

[tv echo]

My nonspoilery WW review...

I saw Wonder Woman. Big Thumbs Up!  Probably one of the Top 5 best superhero movies I've ever seen. Wonder Woman was beautifully depicted as a true hero, with heart, compassion and courage.

It wasn't without its problems, though. The first two-thirds of the movie were great, but the last third fell prey to some of the issues that I had with Batman v. Superman (in that part, you could definitely tell the movies were made by the same people, even though the director was different). There were also a few elements that reminded me of the first Captain America movie. And there was one predictable plot twist.

It was still a really good movie overall, and the positives far outweighed the negatives. I'd give it a grade of A- (as compared to a C- for BvS).

Gal Gadot was amazing. I'm sure that they used stunt doubles in some scenes, but you couldn't tell. They must have had a stunt woman with the identical body type as Gal because the transitions were seamless. And in the shots where it was definitely Gal, she was very believable as an Amazon warrior. She was strong, graceful and coordinated. She didn't just fight well, though. She did a good job of portraying a range of emotions over the course of the film and had some character growth. (The child actor who played young Diana also did a great job.) Casting Gal as Wonder Wonder was the best ever casting of a DC superhero in either film or television. Chris Pine's role was bigger than I expected.

Incidentally, the Amazon warrior fight scenes with the bow and arrow stunts were incredible. (I expect that James Bamford will be taking notes during those scenes.)  All of Wonder Woman's fight scenes were wonderfully done.

Before, I wasn't planning to see Justice League because, one, the promo reminded me too much of BvS's depressing grey landscape, and, two, I don't like Ben Affleck and it's like they removed Superman just to make Batman the leader of the league. But now, I think I'll watch it just for Wonder Woman.

Edited June 3, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Shocker - another review that doesn't blame Olicity for the problems with S3 and S4 of Arrow (incidentally, I disagree strongly with this staff's rankings)...

The CW’s Best Shows: Ranking the 2016-17 Season
TYF STAFF JUNE 2, 2017 
https://www.theyoungfolks.com/television/104254/the-cw-best-shows-2017/

Quote

12. DC’s Legends of Tomorrow: Season 2
When DC’s Legends of Tomorrow debuted, it was easily the weakest of the four superhero shows on the CW. Granted, that’s still very much true, but despite a very shaky and uneven first season, the show really found its groove a few episodes into its second season. It streamlined its plot, didn’t try so hard, and embraced its own insanity and bizarre team dynamic. The show decided instead to have fun and be zany rather than trying, and failing, to take itself seriously. After all, the entire premise of Legends of Tomorrow is built upon a team of misfits (B-side characters from The Flash and Arrow) and once the show came to that realization, it strengthened greatly. To be fair, much of the show’s premise, which is based in time travel and questionable plotting, can be a bit nonsensical and there aren’t quite enough consequences given that they’re messing with time, but if you’re to let all of that go, then Legends of Tomorrow makes for some entertainment.  – Mae Abdulbaki
*  *  *
9. Arrow: Season 5
If this was 2013 you would be hard pressed to find Arrow ranked outside of the CW’s top five shows. But due to two back to back lackluster seasons (seasons three & four), the show was beginning to fall far behind its superhero counterparts like The Flash and Supergirl. The biggest reason why Arrow was falling behind was due to its failed efforts of trying to incorporate the extraordinary into the ordinary. Arrow is not like The Flash or Supergirl as he has no super speed or super strength; instead it is his ingenuity and smarts which are his biggest strengths. So super villains like Ra’s al Gul (season three) or Damian Darhk (season four), who were focal points in their respective seasons, were villains that did not suit Arrow whatsoever. In season five, the inclusion of a more grounded villain in Prometheus finally helped re-center a show that had lost its way. Then you add in the reintroduction of Deathstroke and flashback sequences that actually mattered, leaving you with the makings of a show deserving of being in the top ten. – Anthony Guivas
*  *  *
3. Supergirl: Season 2
The comic book world is essentially a boy’s club when it comes to on-screen (both TV and film) representation, putting women into the role of damsel in distress, sidekick, or an oversexualized set piece only there to give the men something to fawn over. Supergirl came to save the day and continues to provide an entertaining, endearing and empowering female hero in a world with so few of them being shown. Not just that, but the show takes great care to develop every female character and give them depth and complexity regardless of their good/evil status. Out of the several DC-related shows on the CW, Supergirl is easily the campiest and closest to emulating the comic book universe it comes from.

The term “camp” gets a bad rap, but it is this same quality that made us fall in love with comic books in the first place. In the televised world of Supergirl, camp is essential for the more light-hearted tone needed for its hero. Supergirl, AKA Kara Zor-El, is meant to be ever the optimist, which is a symbol of her true strength. Sure, she has all of the same powers as Superman, but her true strength, and what makes her stand out from the rest of her male colleagues, is the way that she doesn’t let her tragic past define her or jade her life. This show is the beacon of hope we rarely get, and never realized we needed. – Jon Espino 
*  *  *
2. The Flash: Season 3
When Nolan made his Dark Knight trilogy, we all saw how comic books could be adapted into the real world. Sure, it was a good change up, but in the long run betrays its own origins. Since then, the concept has tried to be emulated and that’s how Arrow was born. Not every comic book story needs to be painted with the harsh, real world gray and because of that, The Flash couldn’t come fast enough. The Flash reintroduced some of the more sci-fi/fantasy elements that Arrow shied away from, but at the same time kept a fair amount of the gravity from the show that came before it.

The Flash could best be described as the happy medium between Arrow and Supergirl, offering a some of the best aspects of both world. The campiness we have come to love from the comic book universe as a whole combined with the gravity of the real world. The stories are fun, exciting, and sometimes surprisingly emotional. As a person, Barry Allen is the most relatable of the superheroes since more of his mistakes are made out of love. That’s a tragically human quality we can all understand. – Jon Espino

13. The Vampire Diaries: Season 8
12. DC’s Legends of Tomorrow: Season 2
11. The Originals: Season 4
10. Reign: Season 4
9. Arrow: Season 5
8. Supernatural: Season 12
7. The 100: Season 4
6. Crazy Ex-Girlfriend: Season 3
5. iZombie: Season 3
4. Jane the Virgin: Season 3
3. Supergirl: Season 2
2. The Flash: Season 3
1. Riverdale: Season 1

Edited June 3, 2017 by tv echo

[Velocity23]

[tv echo]

Ask Matt: NBC’s 'This Is Us' Scheduling, 'Amazing Race' Aftermath, 'Fear the Walking Dead,' Superhero Fatigue, and More
Matt Roush June 02, 2017 11:45 am
https://www.tvinsider.com/222132/ask-matt-this-is-us-amazing-race/

Quote

Holy Superhero Fatigue!

Question: The current season of Arrow ended on a cliffhanger but since it's coming back for next season, Team Arrow will likely survive in one form or another. But after five seasons, the story lines have grown more repetitive. Is it time for the show to think of an exit strategy, or is there still enough momentum to keep chugging away like Supernatural does? Second, I think superhero TV show fatigue has set in. None of the CW's superhero TV shows really stood out to me this season. In particular, Season 3 of The Flash was quite a slog with the “Flashpoint” storyline dragging on all season long. I wish the show could provide shorter story arcs that last half the season instead of one season long story arc. Has the genre reached the saturation point on TV? — Brian

Matt Roush: From a programmers’ point of view, it seems they’re just getting started, with more DC and especially Marvel-related projects being developed on multiple platforms. Personally, I’ve checked out of most of these convoluted shows, finding none of them as enjoyable as they initially were (Flash and its multiple universes a special case in point). I am looking forward to Netflix’s The Defenders in August, though, which has the inspired idea to put several series’ heroes together under one title, which seems a very economical approach. With the CW glut, it feels like way too much of a no-longer-such-a-good thing. And as popular as the genre is now, I’d be surprised if any of these individual shows has the longevity of Supernatural.

Edited June 3, 2017 by tv echo

[Velocity23]

[tennisgurl]

I'm super excited to see Wonder Woman this in the next few days. I have been VERY disappointed in the DC movies (I basically think they've all sucked hard), but this sounds very promising. I don't want to hate these movies, I'm rooting for them to be good, even if they will never be the MCU. Its looking like it a good summer so far for superhero movies, with Wonder Woman looking very promising, and Guardians of the Galaxy being a really solid space opera/superhero movie that I really enjoyed.

[wonderwall]

To me Wonder Woman is probably my most favorite superhero movie after the Dark Knight trilogy and I can't wait to watch more of it. I would even say Wonder Woman > Captain America (which is my most favorite MCU franchise). 

I loved how the movie twisted the tropes where Steve is the love interest and Diana is the hero. I love that even in this the movie treated Steve as an equal instead of just a damsel like so many superhero movies do with women. I loved the chemistry Diana had with Steve as well as the subtle tie in to the larger DCEU. Gal Godot portrayed Diana so well and all the supporting actors really did make the movie something special. But the best thing for me was that there was a deeper meaning to this movie other than fighting and war and to see a woman that strong, naive, vulnerable, and compassionate grace our screens is something I really appreciated. 

The only thing I was disappointed with is that this really isn't a movie for young kids. Because while boys have so many heroes to look up to, little girls need someone to look up to as well. 

Anyways, I really thoroughly enjoyed the movie and I'm actually going to watch it again during the week so I can't wait!