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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

4 hours ago, kismet said:

Makes sense. The lack of build-up to her return really makes it seem like a vision or dream is the most she will get. Perhaps, a tiny flashback. It doesn't appear to be that critical to the show that she is returning. It will probably just help complete Sara's emotional arc this season. Could have been done without KC, but they got that multi-show contract they need to use, so vision we get.

I haven't minded how Laurel has been used in relation to Sara on LoT.  They manage to make me care since Sara cares so I'm oddly looking forward to it.  

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TwistedandBored

TwistedandBored

On 3/3/2017 at 4:29 PM, wonderwall said:

I feel like losing Joe would have more of an impact on the show's ratings than losing Iris... This is even taking into consideration of the show potentially killing a black woman. 

I don't know, if Flash ever kills off Iris. I won't be watching that show. Like CP is huge part of why I and many others watch TF.

So, I think killing off an important character like Iris who represents a huge group of people could be demaging. Just look at what is happening with Sleepy Hollow. They under valued how much Abbie meant to people. Just saying.

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Mellowyellow

Mellowyellow

Question:

Are Barry Allen and Iris West as iconic (or nearly) as Lois Lane and Superman?

Like could they have done the Flash and given Barry a new long standing love interest like Oliver and Felicity (hehe I say this praying Arrow will not revert to GA/BC) or is it a big pairing that cannot be messed with?

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)
40 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Question:

Are Barry Allen and Iris West as iconic (or nearly) as Lois Lane and Superman?

Like could they have done the Flash and given Barry a new long standing love interest like Oliver and Felicity (hehe I say this praying Arrow will not revert to GA/BC) or is it a big pairing that cannot be messed with?

I think anyone that follows Flash comics might think they are iconic, but even though I've watched probably any DC animated show that's been made, I couldn't have told you her name.  She's important in the Flash related comic stuff, but hasn't IMO risen to name recognition outside of it.  I think really only the big three -Superman, Batman, and Wonderwoman have supporting players that are so well known that you would know them even if you weren't a comics reader.  (And Wonder Woman may be a stretch)  

Everyone probably knows the cast of Superman:  the Kents, Perry White, Lois Lane, Jimmy, Lex and even Jor-El.  With Batman I bet most could name Alfred, Robin, Batgirl,  Com Gordan, and most of his better know rogues gallery.  With Wonder Woman I'd toss in Steve Treavor but after that not so much, lol.  Before The Flash on the CW I could have named a couple of the different Flashes, but none of his side characters or his enemies. 

But as for if it as a pairing could be messed with, I think they were a pretty stable couple in the comics but he has had other love interests.  And with new interpretations, I'd say anything is possible.  

Edited by BkWurm1
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yellowfred

yellowfred

9 hours ago, kismet said:

It will probably just help complete Sara's emotional arc this season. Could have been done without KC, but they got that multi-show contract they need to use, so vision we get.

Like, I know it's become kind of a joke, but I'm pretty sure this is exactly what the producers had in mind when they came up with those contracts.  I mean, I'm sure the fact that it placated certain segments of the audience was a nice benefit, but I wouldn't be surprised if the main purpose was so that they didn't have to jump through hoops to get the actors to come in for a flashback scene or two.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

6 hours ago, TwistedandBored said:

I don't know, if Flash ever kills off Iris. I won't be watching that show. Like CP is huge part of why I and many others watch TF.

So, I think killing off an important character like Iris who represents a huge group of people could be demaging. Just look at what is happening with Sleepy Hollow. They under valued how much Abbie meant to people. Just saying.

Sure. I get that. All I'm saying though is that killing off Joe or Cisco would be more damaging. 

I also don't feel as though sleepy hollow is a fair comparison because in that show, Abbie was a lot more integral to it than Iris is to Flash. As much as I would've liked the show to have done justice to Iris in that sense, she's honestly really just a love interest which makes her more easily replaceable imo considering she isn't even a fan favorite like Cisco is. 

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feverfew

feverfew

6 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Question:

Are Barry Allen and Iris West as iconic (or nearly) as Lois Lane and Superman?

Like could they have done the Flash and given Barry a new long standing love interest like Oliver and Felicity (hehe I say this praying Arrow will not revert to GA/BC) or is it a big pairing that cannot be messed with?

 

5 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

But as for if it as a pairing could be messed with, I think they were a pretty stable couple in the comics but he has had other love interests.  And with new interpretations, I'd say anything is possible. 

While @BkWurm1 is absolutely correct in that Superman and Batman's gallery of friends and rogues are the only ones known outside comic readers (I think it's to do with the movies) I don't think love interests are as interchangable in Flash fandom as it is with Green Arrow*. Barry Allen and Iris West have been a stable in most Flash comics since it started, and has been married for most of their run. You don't mess with that unless you want the ire of 50+ years of fandom on your back. What makes the case for this particular romance even stronger is the fact they chose CP as their Iris. Making Iris West black is one of the best decisions Flash did in regards to representation (which, let's admit, is not something either DC or Marvel is good at). Imagine the - well-deserved, in my opinion - media shitstorm if Flash decides to throw over their (50+ years) established love interest for a white girl. So no, I don't think Flash will change their endgame - luckily CP is a very good actress and she and Grant has good chemistry (when they allow Barry to be more than just a boy).

 

I've been thinking about diving back into Arrow again. My dad just finished season 4 and I love talking shows with him. But what broke me was the bloody mess they made of Oliver and Felicity's relationship. Should I start watching season 5 (I never finished 4) or wait for season 6 and pretend 4.5 and 5 never happened?

Spoiler

I've been following the spoilers and I don't mind Oliver/Felicity; I just didn't care for the angst and troubles that followed. A stable relationship that doesn't push Diggle and Thea to the side, storywise, is my preferred outcome.

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bijoux

bijoux

Regarding Arrow, I'd say at this stage it's to be determined. The state of Oliver and Felicity's relationship never had much to do with how prominent Dig and Thea are IMO. They're not in a relationship this season and there's been only a few hints about it yet Dig and Thea are getting the least focus they have in the show's run.

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kismet

kismet

12 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I haven't minded how Laurel has been used in relation to Sara on LoT.  They manage to make me care since Sara cares so I'm oddly looking forward to it.  

I haven't either. It's been just enough. :) They just haven't been dropping references that we will actually get to see LL, I thought they might have dropped an actual viewing until the spoiler was released a few weeks ago. Either way, I'm looking fwd to it too oddly enough. I just hope they write LL well.

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Velocity23

Velocity23

(edited)

from DCTV only Arrow is off. Supergirl, LOt, Flash all air new episodes. Seems like SPN and Riverdale are new also. 

Next week Supergirl is off. Flash, LOT and Arrow are all new. 

Hmm just saw that Thursdays are off on 16th March and 23th March. Why are the Thursday's show taking a break? 

Edited by Velocity23
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Starfish35

Starfish35

I'm trying to figure out the schedule for Legends.  iZombie returns with back-to-back episodes on April 4. But Legends still has five episodes left to air, so they're going to have to double up somewhere.  I'm just trying to figure out where.  Probably March 28? Two-hour finale?

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kismet

kismet

2 hours ago, wonderwall said:

Sure. I get that. All I'm saying though is that killing off Joe or Cisco would be more damaging. 

I also don't feel as though sleepy hollow is a fair comparison because in that show, Abbie was a lot more integral to it than Iris is to Flash. As much as I would've liked the show to have done justice to Iris in that sense, she's honestly really just a love interest which makes her more easily replaceable imo considering she isn't even a fan favorite like Cisco is. 

They could kill off Cisco and that might actually get me to watch the show again. Never really been a huge fan. Although I did like Moody Cisco, he seemed to be the only one that was giving BA a hard time for the whole selfishness of FP, but then of course the writers made Cisco change his mind a few eps in. Very disappointed by that.

Killing Joe would take away the minuscule amount of desire I have left to watch the Flash.

I understand your point about IW as a love interest and replaceable/removable. I guess it would just make me really sad if they did that. I really do enjoy IW and CP is good at the role. I only wish they actually wrote the character as more than a LI. That being said, I haven't watched Flash for months now, so I don't know how she is doing as a LI. FP pissed me off too much to tune into BA's weekly running contest. The couple doesn't seem to have any heat or romantic chemistry. But I blame most of that of GG's baby face and the writers immature writing. I could see them in a stable relationship. And honestly, that might work better for me that trying to watch BA date random people.

And I agree Abby was part of the core driving powers of the Sleepy Hollow Duo, I don't see a similarity with IW. Most of the characters in SH that worked were direct links to her. Removing Abby out the show's equation completely destabilized it and forced them to restructure the show. I've yet to see how that all worked out for them. Pseudo boycotting the show so I won't watch it online, but I also never remember anymore when its live. I definitely don't see anyone on the Flash (besides BA) having that important of a role that if they were killed off or left the show it would ruin it or force the writers to restructure the show.

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jay741982

jay741982

1 hour ago, Velocity23 said:

from DCTV only Arrow is off. Supergirl, LOt, Flash all air new episodes. Seems like SPN and Riverdale are new also. 

Next week Supergirl is off. Flash, LOT and Arrow are all new. 

Hmm just saw that Thursdays are off on 16th March and 23th March. Why are the Thursday's show taking a break? 

Probably to stretch the shows into may at least for Riverdale. If Riverdale aired all 13 episodes without a break it would end late April 

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Sunshine

Sunshine

1 hour ago, Velocity23 said:

from DCTV only Arrow is off. Supergirl, LOt, Flash all air new episodes. Seems like SPN and Riverdale are new also. 

Next week Supergirl is off. Flash, LOT and Arrow are all new. 

Hmm just saw that Thursdays are off on 16th March and 23th March. Why are the Thursday's show taking a break? 

I haven't checked schedule but my guess would be March Madness (college basketball). 

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calliope1975

calliope1975

1 hour ago, dtissagirl said:

I still don't understand why they hired a dude who looks like Chicken Little.

No joke. Especially when we could have had Lewis Tan as Danny Rand, who is, of course, the bad guy in IF.

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tv echo

tv echo

Ausiello said that Matt Mitovich was heading to Vancouver that day for various set visits, including Flash and Supergirl (but no mention of Arrow), and Mitovich will also be visiting OUaT's set for their musical episode, so Mitovich is taking questions for those three shows...

TVLine's Ask Ausiello Live on Mar. 6, 2017

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Velocity23

Velocity23

2 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Huh, i find it surprising they'd make the decision this soon. They must not have any confidence in their pilots.

I was thinking it has more to do that it was the new show that stood out.  And it has the advertiser deals Gossip Girl use to get. Also they had to renew one new show. 

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feverfew

feverfew

YES! Riverdale's a show that so far has done right by its women. Archie's a lovely block of wood, but Veronica (sultry, witty and Riverdale's very own Audrey Horne), Betty (intrepid blonde with a penchant for investigating), Cheryl (gothic queen-bee) and Josie (kick-ass lady with claws) are awesome. I was a little bit worried about the love triangle that's such an intricate part of the Archie comic, but so far they've swerved away from that and instead played up the girls' friendship. It's a good show :)

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TwistedandBored

TwistedandBored

8 hours ago, wonderwall said:

Sure. I get that. All I'm saying though is that killing off Joe or Cisco would be more damaging. 

I also don't feel as though sleepy hollow is a fair comparison because in that show, Abbie was a lot more integral to it than Iris is to Flash. As much as I would've liked the show to have done justice to Iris in that sense, she's honestly really just a love interest which makes her more easily replaceable imo considering she isn't even a fan favorite like Cisco is. 

I am the opposite. I think completely killing off Iris with no hope of bring her back would be more damaging specially with the way DC has been treating their female characters lately. People would actually use Iris as example as to how Flash sucks when it comes to treating their female characters. I mean look at Caitlin. They keep using her as love interest for every new guy that comes to show. Jesse has to move to Earth 1 for Wally. Never did Wally ever mention moving to Earth 2 for her. So, them not killing a female character is actually hiding all their flaws. The moment they kill off someone like Iris then you best believe things will change for that show. 

Furthermore, while both Iris and Abbie are not similar in terms of how important they are to the mythology of the show, I think one can make the argument that both shows were quick to kill their lead WOC. 

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ruby24

ruby24

There's at least two original songs- one from Rachel Bloom that's a duet for the two of them called "Superfriends," and the other is a song that Barry sings called "Running Home to You" by the La La Land songwriters.

No word on the rest, but I assume it's probably covers? Since it looks set in the 1940's, it might be big band or jazz music.

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kismet

kismet

Glad for those of you that like Riverdale. :) I really think it got renewed because of Berlanti's attachment to the show. Perhaps they were not happy with their new shows. But I do think GB being behind it, gave them enough confidence to renew it even if the ratings are not great. Plus, they probably do have some other way to pay for it, with deals and such. From what you guys say, it does seem to have potential. Better to dance with the one you came with for another season, then gamble on a new partner, especially considering the CW's new show track record of late.

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yellowfred

yellowfred

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

Do you know if they are doing covers or original songs?

My understanding is that they're doing original songs.  It was announced a while back that Rachel Bloom (from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend) was writing songs for it.

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

1 hour ago, kismet said:

Glad for those of you that like Riverdale. :) I really think it got renewed because of Berlanti's attachment to the show. Perhaps they were not happy with their new shows. But I do think GB being behind it, gave them enough confidence to renew it even if the ratings are not great. Plus, they probably do have some other way to pay for it, with deals and such. From what you guys say, it does seem to have potential. Better to dance with the one you came with for another season, then gamble on a new partner, especially considering the CW's new show track record of late.

Archie comics just inked a delevopment deal with WB so it wouldnt be the best thing if they upped and canceled Riverdale lol

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

11 hours ago, feverfew said:

 

While @BkWurm1 is absolutely correct in that Superman and Batman's gallery of friends and rogues are the only ones known outside comic readers (I think it's to do with the movies) I don't think love interests are as interchangable in Flash fandom as it is with Green Arrow*. Barry Allen and Iris West have been a stable in most Flash comics since it started, and has been married for most of their run. You don't mess with that unless you want the ire of 50+ years of fandom on your back. What makes the case for this particular romance even stronger is the fact they chose CP as their Iris. Making Iris West black is one of the best decisions Flash did in regards to representation (which, let's admit, is not something either DC or Marvel is good at). Imagine the - well-deserved, in my opinion - media shitstorm if Flash decides to throw over their (50+ years) established love interest for a white girl. So no, I don't think Flash will change their endgame - luckily CP is a very good actress and she and Grant has good chemistry (when they allow Barry to be more than just a boy).

 

 

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I've been following the spoilers and I don't mind Oliver/Felicity; I just didn't care for the angst and troubles that followed. A stable relationship that doesn't push Diggle and Thea to the side, storywise, is my preferred outcome.

Oh I don't think there's any chance that The Flash would swap out love interests, not unless CP ends up a mega star and wants out of the show.  When I said I could see them do a different or a new love interest instead of Iris, I meant with any new Flash in development, like in the movies.  In a new medium I think creators could get away with swapping out the love interest if they wanted to because only the hard core Flash fans would know, lol.  I have zero expectation that they'd want to go another way on the curren show.   

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

3 hours ago, feverfew said:

YES! Riverdale's a show that so far has done right by its women. Archie's a lovely block of wood, but Veronica (sultry, witty and Riverdale's very own Audrey Horne), Betty (intrepid blonde with a penchant for investigating), Cheryl (gothic queen-bee) and Josie (kick-ass lady with claws) are awesome. I was a little bit worried about the love triangle that's such an intricate part of the Archie comic, but so far they've swerved away from that and instead played up the girls' friendship. It's a good show :)

It threw me that Riverdale was being discussed in Mind Your Surroundings but between the comic and the Berlanti connection, I get it now, lol.

It is a good show for what it is supposed to be.  Good (enough) acting, interesting characters.  It's frequently absurd in the over serious manner in which it takes itself but the melodrama isn't angsty in a bad way, rather it is part of it's charm and if they can get more people to actually watch a few episodes (and I'd say the magic number is at least three) that they could still have a hit on their hands.  

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Mellowyellow

Mellowyellow

14 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Dang, tonight's Flash tried to out-dour Arrow's x15 endings. 

Noooooooo

Really?

Nah can't be as bad!

I care about ANYONE on the Flash more than I do the-woman-with-the-soul-where-happiness-goes-to-die!

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Sakura12

Sakura12

That's why LoT is my favorite show, while the others shows are trying to out dour each other, LoT has Amaya having a heart to heart with a T-Rex and Rip making out with his ship. 

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feverfew

feverfew

(edited)
1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

It threw me that Riverdale was being discussed in Mind Your Surroundings but between the comic and the Berlanti connection, I get it now, lol.

It is a good show for what it is supposed to be.  Good (enough) acting, interesting characters.  It's frequently absurd in the over serious manner in which it takes itself but the melodrama isn't angsty in a bad way, rather it is part of it's charm and if they can get more people to actually watch a few episodes (and I'd say the magic number is at least three) that they could still have a hit on their hands.  

Heh. Yeah, it was a bit out of left field, but the news just made me so happy! And okay, maybe I did have a bit of an ulterior motive: I like this show a lot and would love you guys to give it a shot too. Bkwurm1 is right: I could barely get through the first episode, but around episode three I realized I was hooked*. (It does help that Betty falls squarely into my Veronica/Chloe/Felicity-box of favourite character tropes).

*Episode five was when I realized I was in love. That episode has this wonderful, self-indulgent, preposterous end-scene that almost look like a missing scene from Crimson Peak.

**If Sabrina the Teenage Witch shows up, will Riverdale qualify as a superhero-show? ;)

Edited by feverfew
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

1 hour ago, feverfew said:

(It does help that Betty falls squarely into my Veronica Mars/Chloe/Felicity-box of favourite character tropes).

And it's not obvious who Betty is until like the third episode.  Before that she's too good and perfect and it makes her seem like she was going to get trampled in personality and characterization by Veronica and the other more flashy characters and then they let her start digging into things and boom, there she was.  And now I feel like both girls hold their own and neither are just a on note stereotype.  The adults on the other hand, lol.  

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

Alan Sepinwall watched the first 6 episodes of Iron Fist, and... HAHAHAHALOL:

Quote

he has some genre fiction street cred as a member of the larger ensemble of Game of Thrones, where he played Loras Tyrell. But whatever charisma he displayed as the Knight of the Flowers vanishes in this role, where he comes across as a befuddled surfer who wandered into the middle of a kung fu movie. Even worse, he’s not much of a martial artist, and it shows — badly. Even worse, he’s not much of a martial artist, and it shows — badly.

Quote

The skimpiness and infrequency of the Iron Fist fight scenes suggest a production doing whatever it can to keep you from noticing that the greatest warrior ever produced by the Seven Capital Cities of Heaven, who should be able to cut his way through men like in the comics page below, instead moves like a guy who can’t wait to get his green belt at the strip mall dojo.

 

Quote

If Iron Fist was an otherwise boring series with a hero who kicked butt in exciting ways early and often, I’d forgive the bland expository parts in the same way I do for a lot of action shows and movies. And if Finn Jones couldn’t fight but was otherwise a riveting screen presence blessed with sparkling dialogue and a compelling character arc, I’d get past the alleged living weapon’s lame physical prowess. But when neither part works at all, why would anyone but the most devout, masochistic Marvel completist want to watch?

http://uproxx.com/sepinwall/iron-fist-review-netflix-marvel/

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Delphi

Delphi

1 hour ago, manbearpig said:

I feel like I'm done with any Marvel Netflix show that doesn't prominently feature Jessica Jones. 

 That's pretty much where I am.   I couldn't get into the first season of Daredevil, loved Jessica Jones,  liked parts of season two of Daredevil and thought Luke Cage was dull as hell.  I'm basically biding my time and waiting for the Defenders and season two of Jessica Jones. 

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