Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[way2interested]

7 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I really hate the simplistic Americans = good; British = bad that US shows do.

It's similar to what they did for the Civil War episode (North = Good, South = Scum of the Earth) which I also dislike that US shows do, so I honestly didn't expect much different sadly.

[BkWurm1]

2 hours ago, way2interested said:

It's similar to what they did for the Civil War episode (North = Good, South = Scum of the Earth) which I also dislike that US shows do, so I honestly didn't expect much different sadly.

At least there was a clear cut good/bad moral issue as part of the mix with the Civil War.  Sure, there's frequently a lack of nuance but since its background to other stuff going on in 45 minutes of television I don't really feel it's that necessary to make it less cut and dried.  But the Revolutionary War was fought for more esoteric reasons and even in grade school there wasn't much vitriol taught around it against the British.  

[catrox14]

Okay Sara Lance has died and been resurrected so many times she might as well be a Winchester. Good grief

Evil Rip is a lot more fun than regular Rip. But he killed Sara and that's unacceptable.

Edited February 8, 2017 by catrox14

[Starfish35]

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Okay Sara Lance has died and been resurrected so many times she might as well be a Winchester. Good grief

Oh the crossover ideas. :)

I love this show more and more with every episode. :) 

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Oh the crossover ideas. :)

Seriously. The fanfic writes itself. LOL

[BkWurm1]

So the U.S. has Mick Rory to thank for inspiring Washington and winning the Revolutionary War?  Hahahahahahahah!

I really loved the opening monologue from Mick.  And for some reason Ray being chased by rats made me giggle.  

Nate was bugging me a lot.  Neither he nor Amaya 

10 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Okay Sara Lance has died and been resurrected so many times she might as well be a Winchester. Good grief

Evil Rip is a lot more fun than regular Rip. But he killed Sara and that's unacceptable.

But has she reached Daniel Jackson Stargate levels yet?  They stopped even having funerals for him.  

[Starfish35]

6 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

But has she reached Daniel Jackson Stargate levels yet?  They stopped even having funerals for him.  

LOL. :)

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

But has she reached Daniel Jackson Stargate levels yet?  They stopped even having funerals for him.

That is a good question.

SPN spoilers just because LOL

Spoiler

Technically Dean has died like 110 times, 100 all on one terrible Tuesday...so I dunno?

[BkWurm1]

39 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

That is a good question.

SPN spoilers just because LOL

  Hide contents

Technically Dean has died like 110 times, 100 all on one terrible Tuesday...so I dunno?

Spoiler

I think Jackson had like 12 "real" deaths (not counting just flatlining), a bunch of "thought he was dead", once when he was actually a robot, lol.  Some virtual reality deaths and then there was a time loop where he died at the end of it every time and they revealed that the time loop had been going on for months.  

 So we might be looking at a tie, lol.

Edited February 8, 2017 by BkWurm1

[kismet]

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

At least there was a clear cut good/bad moral issue as part of the mix with the Civil War.  Sure, there's frequently a lack of nuance but since its background to other stuff going on in 45 minutes of television I don't really feel it's that necessary to make it less cut and dried.  But the Revolutionary War was fought for more esoteric reasons and even in grade school there wasn't much vitriol taught around it against the British.  

Well I went to school & grew up in New England -the Revolutionary War was part of just about every field trip we went too. There was a lot of vitriol talked about the British in those visit. The British were the "bad" guys in the basic sense. Which is historically accurate since it was NE that had the most anger towards the British.  As for the Civil War, well that is definitely a regional thing. In the South, they still refer to it as the Battle of Northern Aggression. There is so love lost for the Northern Yankees. The Vitriol towards the North is still pretty relevant depending on who/where you talk to people. A lot of people still consider the Civil War to be about states rights. So the morality gets pretty murky once you remove the slavery part of the war.

Personally, if the series is based in the specific time period I expect a more intricate analysis/portrayal of right & wrong, with all the nuances that exist in reality & history. For example, Mercy Street on PBS is taking a look at the Civil War through a different perspective. But when it comes to these one episode adventures, I really have no expectations. For the sake of efficiency, I can take a simplification of bad guy/good guy. IMO, it usually breaks down in TV world that generally speaking whoever the winner is, is generally the one that is seen as the "good" guys. Or whoever your audience is, is the good guys. The show is written from an American perspective, the Americans are going to be the "good" guys when it comes to the Revolutionary War.

Granted, I say this having not watched the episode - so not sure if it applies to LoT.

Edited February 8, 2017 by kismet

[Lokiberry]

The LoT episode was about slavery and confederate zombies. I don't think nuance would have fit in with the theme. Also, the southerners who talk about the "war of northern aggression" and states rights tend not to be the descendants of  those who were enslaved.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Lokiberry

[kismet]

10 minutes ago, Lokiberry said:

The LoT episode was about slavery and confederate zombies. I don't think nuance would have fit in with the theme. Also, the southerners who talk about the "war of northern aggression" and states rights tend not to be the descendants of  those who were enslaved.

I think people might have been talking about the newest episode of LoT that had RIP & Gen. Washington during the revolutionary war and stuff happened. Haven't seen it yet as I'm at work.

I understand your point. I was just stating that who is good & bad can be interpreted differently in different regions. Simply bringing up another side on the Civil War. It is still taught in many southern schools as the War of Northern Aggression not the Civil War. Not all southerners were slave holders, and still they supported the war for various reasons. There were some legitimate economic & philosophical reasons behind some of the support the Civil War, if you study the history of the war. The Civil War is a very complicated point in American history. Not saying I agree with some of those perspectives, just stating the history.

And the LoT handled it well considering it's purpose in the show was simply to be a one time visit to the time period and not an in-depth critical analysis. Nuance was not needed, especially with zombies. Good & Bad in all wars are very complicated. And honestly, LoT does not seem to be the show to tackle those deeper levels. I do appreciate when they take the moral high ground like slavery is bad, which I agree with. But I'm glad they don't try to take on a bigger and more complex themes than they have time & space to give justice to. It's a fun show, not a documentary.

[Lokiberry]

14 minutes ago, kismet said:

It is still taught in many southern schools as the War of Northern Aggression not the Civil War.

I've lived my entire life in the south, I went to school in the south in the 70s and 80s, and the only time I've ever heard that expression was from an actor sporting a cheesy accent on tv. I have heard "states rights" quite a bit, and have a pretty good understanding of what it's code for.

As for the latest episode, it's no surprise that it lacked historical complexity. These are the flarrowverse writers we're talking about. If an episode makes sense, we should count it as a victory.

[kismet]

Well @Lokiberry I can only report what my friends who went to school in the South told me they were taught. I've never fact checked the curriculum. And school districts and teachers are all different, so who knows. Plus people may venture off the prescribed curriculum. 

[bijoux]

Too cute.

[Velocity23]

Tuesday ratings

[Velocity23]

Paley announced their guest:

[tv echo]

I thought this was an interesting article - I'm not going to quote or comment because it touches on politics, but I'm just posting it here for your interest (also includes a MG quote)...

Less Politics, More Superhero Stories for Marvel Comics in 2017
By Ian Miles Cheong  8:49 am, February 7, 2017
https://heatst.com/culture-wars/less-politics-more-superhero-stories-for-marvel-comics-in-2017/

[ohjoy]

9 hours ago, kismet said:

As for the Civil War, well that is definitely a regional thing. In the South, they still refer to it as the Battle of Northern Aggression. There is so love lost for the Northern Yankees. The Vitriol towards the North is still pretty relevant depending on who/where you talk to people. A lot of people still consider the Civil War to be about states rights. So the morality gets pretty murky once you remove the slavery part of the war.

 

7 hours ago, Lokiberry said:

I've lived my entire life in the south, I went to school in the south in the 70s and 80s, and the only time I've ever heard that expression was from an actor sporting a cheesy accent on tv. I have heard "states rights" quite a bit, and have a pretty good understanding of what it's code for.

I too grew up in the south (most of my history classes were in the 90s), and have only ever heard the Northern Aggression reference on tv (and cartoons like Bullwinkle at that). I was taught more about its complexities, but even that didn't get vitriolic against the North.

 

12 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Okay Sara Lance has died and been resurrected so many times she might as well be a Winchester. Good grief

 

12 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Oh the crossover ideas. :)

I would love to an one-off with the three of them -- especially if they all died and got resurrected one more time.

[Sakura12]

Sara hasn't had her stuck in a time loop episode yet, maybe next year. Then she can catch up to the Winchester brothers.

[tv echo]

Iron Fist gives us Arrow flashbacks with new trailer
By Gabrielle Bondi on February 7, 2017
http://theyoungfolks.com/television/iron-fist-gives-us-arrow-flashbacks-with-new-trailer/96813

Quote

Marvel and Netflix premiered the first full trailer for the upcoming Iron Fist this morning. Joining Daredevil, Jessica Jones, and Luke Cage, Iron Fist has a lot to live up to, and if this first trailer is any indication, maybe we should set our expectations a tad lower.
*  *  *
Iron Fist has been met with controversy since before production. Many (rightfully) felt that the new show was an opportunity for Marvel to cast an Asian superhero by updating the problematic Danny Rand character from the comics. Unfortunately, Marvel stayed loyal to the comics’ depiction of Danny Rand and cast Game of Thrones’ actor, Finn Jones.

Jones seems perfectly fine in a trailer that outlines the main story of Iron Fist/Danny Rand and what to expect from the show’s first season. It’s awfully hard not to be reminded of another superhero show, Arrow, which has essentially the same kind of backstory and hero type. However, there is a part of me (the part that immensely enjoyed the other Defenders‘ shows) that hopes Iron Fist ends up being better than it looks. Regardless though, I’ll always be a little disappointed in Marvel for not seizing this opportunity to further diversify their hero line-up.

Edited February 8, 2017 by tv echo

[tennisgurl]

Poor Sara is the Kenny of the DCU. "Oh my God, you killed Sara! You bastards!". Even weirder, she tends to be killed by allies who have been brainwashed by Malcolm Merlyn, or people allied with him. Weird coincidence.

I do roll my eyes sometimes at the whole black and white morality of any enemy of America (who are usually the good guys, especially in the past), its a lot like Timeless, another show about time traveling, where any enemy of the US are usually either straight up villains, or are just mooks for the heroes to kill.  It doesn't kill the shows for me, because they're rather silly action shows that use time travel and conflicts in history as excuses for cool costumes, cameos from famous people, and fight scenes (although Legends does it WAY better). When I want complexity and shades of grey and nuance into historical conflicts, I turn on Mercy Street or The Americans or things like that. It would be cool to get more complexity or sympathetic "bad guy" characters on the "villain" side, but I'm not expecting much.

I really do love Legends, its just a ton of fun, and I love the characters. It has plot holes just like the rest of the shows, but I forgive it a lot more because it doesn't take itself as seriously, and I enjoy spending time with the characters so much.

[Starfish35]

Not that it nullifies the point, but weren't those colonial soldiers that attacked Nate and Amaya and threw Nate into the river? Not British?

[Morrigan2575]

[BkWurm1]

11 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

Paley announced their guest:

Always nice to see Caity included (and they are still pretending that Routh is big draw, lol) but boo no EBR.  Maybe she's too busy filming???  Crosses fingers. 

[kismet]

12 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

Paley announced their guest:

Hey look they managed to get more than 2 women on a Paley Fest. Good thing Supergirl is being led by a female. Interesting who the additional guests may be. Really glad to see CP there.

11 hours ago, tv echo said:

I thought this was an interesting article - I'm not going to quote or comment because it touches on politics, but I'm just posting it here for your interest (also includes a MG quote)...

Less Politics, More Superhero Stories for Marvel Comics in 2017
By Ian Miles Cheong  8:49 am, February 7, 2017
https://heatst.com/culture-wars/less-politics-more-superhero-stories-for-marvel-comics-in-2017/

Have never really been into Comics, it was really fascinating to hear Cpt. America's historical/political origins on their tv special last year for his anniversary. It would be a shame if the comics strip away the politics because of politics. They should tell a good story and if that is political so be it. Then again, I don't read comics - so I'm personally not invested. But what they do does spill off into their TV/Movies, so I hope they make good choices.

[Morrigan2575]

I really don't see the problem with the Paleyfest lineup. I would have loved to see EBR and OTA but, they picked 2 actors from each show and DR has as much right to the publicity as EBR. In fact you could argue that he has more right to be there, since he's been a series regular since the pilot, is finally 2nd billed and did all of the 2nd billed heavy lifting in S1-3 (2nd most screentime per season).

[tv echo]

Flash, Legends of Tomorrow & Arrow Are Going In Opposite Directions
Posted on February 9, 2017 by Kelly Konda
https://weminoredinfilm.com/2017/02/09/the-flash-legends-of-tomorrow-arrow-are-going-in-opposite-directions/

Quote

To watch a Greg Berlanti-produced superhero show is to turn off your brain, to revel in the bright and light and ignore plot holes, consistently underwritten female characters and increasingly unruly ensemble casts who can never quite get enough screen time/character development. To write about a Greg Berlanti-produced superhero show is to accept that you are going to be writing about the same problems over and over again. For example:

Will The Flash ever properly incorporate Iris into the STARS Lab team, and is the show forever stuck on a loop of restaging all of the conflicts and tropes that worked so well in that first season? Will Legends ever rise up to justify its own existence and find a villain or group of villains compelling enough to make our ragtag group of outcast heroes into something actually worthy of such a remarkably pompous moniker as “legends”? Will Arrow ever re-find its identity as the gritty core of the Arrowverse, or is it doomed to forever feel incompatible with the fantastical universe it now anchors? Will Supergirl…

Edited February 9, 2017 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

10 hours ago, tv echo said:

Will The Flash ever properly incorporate Iris into the STARS Lab team, and is the show forever stuck on a loop of restaging all of the conflicts and tropes that worked so well in that first season? Will Legends ever rise up to justify its own existence and find a villain or group of villains compelling enough to make our ragtag group of outcast heroes into something actually worthy of such a remarkably pompous moniker as “legends”? Will Arrow ever re-find its identity as the gritty core of the Arrowverse, or is it doomed to forever feel incompatible with the fantastical universe it now anchors? Will Supergirl…

Um, yes!

[thegirlsleuth]

For everyone who was cheering about Legends season 2, you were so right. The villains are great, I like all the heroes, and it is just a load of fun. Glad I picked it up after being driven away last season.

[kismet]

I always thought Legends was a really pompous moniker, but the show is still a whole lot of fun. I'll give them a pass for now, while they find the perfect villains. Either way, the LoD is entertaining me. Plus I think with the level of cheesiness the show embraces, them calling themselves Legends is par for the course - even if they never find that perfect level of villain.

[tv echo]

For Supergirl, Flash and Arrow...

Edited February 10, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

DC Comics brand is vital to Time Warner’s success in TV and film
By Trey Williams  Published: Feb 10, 2017 7:12 a.m. ET
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/dc-comics-brand-is-vital-to-time-warners-success-in-tv-and-film-2017-02-09

Quote

Time Warner’s TWX, +0.11%  film studio Warner Bros. experienced the largest revenue bump, up 17% compared with the same quarter a year ago. Box office success was led by the company’s two tentpole brands: DC Comics and “Harry Potter.” The studio had its second-best year globally, propelled by “Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice,” “Suicide Squad” and “Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them.”

DC is vital to Time Warner and the success of the brand has even worked its way onto TV.

“We’ve mentioned before that our DC franchise has been one of our most important priorities at Warners, and you can see the results, not just at the box office, but also: in the 10 DC-based shows we have on TV; in the $4.5 billion consumers spent on DC merchandise last year,” Time Warner Chief Executive Jeff Bewkes said during the company’s quarterly earnings call.
*  *  *
Time Warner, in 2006, started The CW Network with CBS Corp. CBS, +0.53% Focused on younger audiences, The CW has gained popularity in recent years on the back of its DC-based superhero series. Among the network’s top-rated shows are “The Flash,” “Supergirl,” “Arrow” and “DC’s Legends of Tomorrow.”

Edited February 10, 2017 by tv echo

[Trini]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

DC Comics brand is vital to Time Warner’s success in TV and film
By Trey Williams  Published: Feb 10, 2017 7:12 a.m. ET
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/dc-comics-brand-is-vital-to-time-warners-success-in-tv-and-film-2017-02-09

DC only has so many well-known, female superheroes to promote (but that's a general comics problem); so looking at the bigger picture, maybe that's why they're trying a third time with Black Canary on Arrow. Plus having Black Canary featured in at least three current comic book series. Then there is speculation she might be the the Gotham City Sirens film. 

[Velocity23]

2 hours ago, Trini said:

DC only has so many well-known, female superheroes to promote (but that's a general comics problem); so looking at the bigger picture, maybe that's why they're trying a third time with Black Canary on Arrow. Plus having Black Canary featured in at least three current comic book series. Then there is speculation she might be the the Gotham City Sirens film. 

They arent. 

[Starfish35]

8 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

They arent. 

They aren't what? *confused*

From TVLine's Friday questions column:

Quote

11 | Can Legends of Tomorrow's cranky Mick take over the opening voiceover of every superhero show?

[Morrigan2575]

12 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

They aren't what? *confused*

From TVLine's Friday questions column:

I'm guessing BoP aren't in Gothem City Sirens?

[Starfish35]

25 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I'm guessing BoP aren't in Gothem City Sirens?

Ah ok. I wasn't sure whether she was saying "they aren't trying a third time with Black Canary" or "they aren't in Gotham City Sirens".

Edited February 10, 2017 by Starfish35

[Primal Slayer]

No one knows if they will showcase BOP or BC in GCS. It's big speculation but i dont think the script is even written yet. 

[Velocity23]

I thought BC was rumored to be in JL 2

[Velocity23]

So i am guessing this romance is a go ... on Supergirl

[Starfish35]

Lol. Well that's going to get a reaction.

[Velocity23]

Riverdale renewal getting more and more likely

[lemotomato]

I'm waiting for a Barry/Iris poster any minute now. Because romance is ok for every show except Arrow and Olicity.

Edited February 10, 2017 by lemotomato

[Velocity23]

But Flash isnt airing on Valentines Day ... so they might not get a poster. 

[insomniadreams88]

4 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I'm waiting for a Barry/Iris poster any minute now. Because romance is ok for every show except Arrow.

It's more like romance is okay for every couple except Olicity.

[lemotomato]

17 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

It's more like romance is okay for every couple except Olicity.

You're right. I fixed it.

Edited February 10, 2017 by lemotomato

[Mellowyellow]

3 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

It's more like romance is okay for every couple except Olicity.

I do not get it. They have this couple that makes normally sensible people go insane. Why would you not use that to flog the show. 

Oh can you imagine what fandom would be like if they casually dropped an Olicity poster?

[Featherhat]

16 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Um, yes!

Nuff said for me. "Legends" is pompous but it does fit the show.

 

I actually like Chris Wood but until I get some hint of "Mon El's secret being revealed, I can't bring myself to care about the romance, but that is a good poster. He is better than poor "Jimmy" getting dragged down with the "cape envy" plot though.

[Starfish35]

On another note, it appears that Katrina Law's Training Day is not doing so well.  That's too bad for her, but maybe we can see Nyssa again next season.