Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Chaser]

Didn't she get depowered as well?

[hogwash]

Um, Canary Cry?

[Sakura12]

I figured there would be Laurel's better on the Flash talk. Since that role is more in KC's range.

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, Chaser said:

Didn't she get depowered as well?

No. She was locked up with her cry intact.

[Guest]

Just because of the Canary Cry? Wow, the bar sure is set low. Haha.

[lemotomato]

They also didn't kill her off. I guess that counts for something.

Here's hoping they dump all those Earth 2 metas back into their native dimension in the next episode and close the wormholes for good.

Edited May 18, 2016 by lemotomato

[AyChihuahua]

2 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

They also didn't kill her off. I guess that counts for something.

Here's hoping they dump all those Earth 2 metas back into their native dimension in the next episode and close the wormholes for good.

They're bad, though. If they end up back on E2 they need to be in jail.

[hogwash]

What's up with these shows and destroying the world? I thought the dead birds were a mean (but kinda hilarious) reference to Laurel at first. I guess the escalating global threat(s) explains why everyone and their mother seemed to be getting an insta-hero speech/flag.

[Sunshine]

Okay, so is S3 of The Flash going to open with Barry/Iris going on a date and then Barry pushing her away because he has to be alone and ending with them driving off into the sunset?  One third of the triangle (Eddie) died heroically at the end of S1 and now Barry's last biological parent has died at the end of S2. ;-)

[wonderwall]

Just now, Sunshine said:

Okay, so is S3 of The Flash going to open with Barry/Iris going on a date and then Barry pushing her away because he has to be alone and ending with them driving off into the sunset?  One third of the triangle (Eddie) died heroically at the end of S1 and now Barry's last biological parent has died at the end of S2. ;-)

Apparently the whole 'asking out' part of it was... yikes :p "Let's give it a go" doesn't really scream endgame pairing/destiny

[AyChihuahua]

These shows really, really repeat/overlap story points. Kind of embarrassingly so. So yeah, probably. Minus the 3.20 sex fest, obvs, since Barry's a Ken doll and all.

[hogwash]

What a weird setting to ask someone out. Anyway, if the pattern holds S03 will be the season of insta-heroes. Maybe superpowers will make it suck less?

[nksarmi]

I was kind of enjoying that episode up until the end. To me, evil Laurel wasn't that much better than good Laurel....actually the Laurel I liked the most was really in season one prior to the hooking up with Oliver and I was clearly wrong about her character back then so yea I got nothing.

Anyway, I was kind of getting a kick out of little ray of sunshine Barry and him giving all the pep talks to everyone. Cisco's "I might have come up with the worst idea ever" made me laugh out loud. And I'm still trying to figure out when Wally and Jesse are going to become speedsters.

But then the ending came and I was just like - what? huh?

I don't care that Zoom makes no sense. I don't care the Earth 2 is going to end somehow (why do I find big world ending event plots so boring? the destruction of the Glades was the best end season plot these shows have done so far). But I do want to know why Barry didn't MOVE at the end to try to save his dad. Why did he just watch it happen? I mean, it's just weird to see a speedster stand still while another speedster kills someone they love and no amount of hand-waving I can do can make that NOT weird.

***By the way, it occurred to me just now that an Army of metas is kind of like an Army of mirukuru solders. So yea, if Barry needs to fight Ras next season, does that mean we can ship Malcolm off over to Flash? Please oh please oh please?

[Sunshine]

My guess would be Wally & Jesse become speedsters in S3.  Laurel found out about Oliver in 2.21 and insisted on helping in 2.22.  Wally was helping in 2.22 and found out Barry's secret. 

[wonderwall]

Someone mentioned this on twitter but there are a lot of parallels between Flash/Arrow and their major plot points:

1x23 Arrow - 1/3 of the love triangle dies. 
1x23 Flash - 1/3 of the love triangle dies.

S2 Arrow - A biological parent dies
S2 Flash - Biological parent dies

S2 Arrow - Army of mirakuru Soldiers
S2 Flash - Army of metas

2x22 Arrow - Felicity hits Isabel with Van
2x22 Flash - Wally hits Black Siren with Car (thanks @ComicFan777)

Edited May 18, 2016 by wonderwall

[Primal Slayer]

I'm glad that the psychics were wrong about Black Sirens death this episode. Overall I enjoyed her, would be nice to see her properly developed but who knows on that one. 

I really wish they would start building up to a big COIE, now that would be a ballsy move on everyones parts. 

But wow did they really mess up the "crossover" between Flash/Arrow when it comes to Laurels death, that was just bad at how they incorporated it and had the characters react to see her double. It had absolutely no impact on this show like they wanted us to believe it would.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Primal Slayer

[ComicFan777]

More parallels...
Felicity hit Isabel with a van in 2.22
Wally hit Black Siren with a car in 2.22

[wonderwall]

2 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I'm glad that the physics were wrong about Black Sirens death this episode. Overall I enjoyed her, would be nice to see her properly developed but who knows on that one. 

IDK what physics has to do with TV characters... But Glad you enjoyed :p

Just now, ComicFan777 said:

More parallels...
Felicity hit Isabel with a van in 2.22
Wally hit Black Siren with a car in 2.22

Oooh I'll consolidate it all into the post I made :p 

[Sunshine]

Shall we start plotting S4 of the Flash? 

[lemotomato]

Parallels or rip offs? I guess imitation is the highest form of flattery, except I keep being told that Flash is soooo superior to Arrow.

Berlanti and Kreisberg wrote this episode, so maybe they still had Arrow season 2 in their drafts or something.

Edited May 18, 2016 by lemotomato

[wonderwall]

4 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Parallels or rip offs? I guess imitation is the highest form of flattery, except I keep being told that Flash is soooo superior to Arrow.

Well...

Where I get the whole Flash is much more superior to Arrow is when S1/2 of Flash is compared to S3/4 of Arrow. 

These parallels/ripoffs are pretty much taken from the 2 supposed best seasons of Arrow. 

So logically it sorta makes sense? Kinda? IDK

[Primal Slayer]

9 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

IDK what physics has to do with TV characters... But Glad you enjoyed :p

Lol good catch

9 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Parallels or rip offs? I guess imitation is the highest form of flattery, except I keep being told that Flash is soooo superior to Arrow.

Berlanti and Kreisberg wrote this episode, so maybe they still had Arrow season 2 in their drafts or something.

It's by the same team so could it even be considered a rip off of their own work? Even Supergirl shares many similarities. 

[Starfish35]

So apparently the AoS death was 

Spoiler

Lincoln?  I guess the writers were trolling with that "slip".  

I'm fine with that actually.  It wasn't going to be Daisy or Coulson, so this works.  I liked the actor in The Tomorrow People, but somehow he just never really worked for me on this show. 

[way2interested]

7 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

So apparently the AoS death was 

  Reveal hidden contents

Lincoln?  I guess the writers were trolling with that "slip".  

I'm fine with that actually.  It wasn't going to be Daisy or Coulson, so this works.  I liked the actor in The Tomorrow People, but somehow he just never really worked for me on this show. 

Never have I been more happy to be trolled by my own sleuthing! 

[AyChihuahua]

Of course writers can rip off their own work. It's not plagiarism or a copyright violation, but it's still a boring-ass repetition. It's really kind of embarrassing how many plot points and story beats are repeated amongst the Berlanti superhero shows.

[dtissagirl]

'Batman v. Superman' Fallout: Warner Bros. Shakes Up Executive Roles (Exclusive) 

Jon Berg and Geoff Johns will co-run DC Films in an attempt to course-correct Warners' comic book movies.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/batman-v-superman-fallout-warner-895174

 

LOL.

[hogwash]

So is Barry gonna "die" in the midseason and come back to his team working well (but not really) without him? That could really work if they're doing Crisis.

SUCK  IT, SNYDER!

[Morena]

2 hours ago, Angel12d said:

I have to ask a serious question here. Why do people think that E2 Laurel has finally been done right/treated properly on The Flash? Because all I got from that was a lot of shade, getting hit with a van and then captured. How is that good? Honest question because I don't get it. I mean, she's evil and she's not BC so...huh? 

If I was a fan, I'd be scratching my head right now. 

 LL getting hit by car  http://i.imgur.com/j5y8uB3.gifv

Edited May 18, 2016 by Morena

[Primal Slayer]

3 minutes ago, Morena said:

 LL getting hit by car  http://i.imgur.com/j5y8uB3.gifv

Even I had to let out a laugh at that. It was comical.

[Carrie Ann]

Basically the only way they could have been worse to her is killing her and throwing her in a dumpster. I guess making her a meta balances out the other stuff?

Edited May 18, 2016 by Carrie Ann

[wonderwall]

7 minutes ago, Morena said:

 LL getting hit by car  http://i.imgur.com/j5y8uB3.gifv

Oh. my. god lmfao

[catrox14]

I really thought KC would be better as Black Siren. I was wrong. This was terrible. But LOL at her getting hit by the car.

[wonderwall]

Quote

But if nothing else, the rise of Black Siren allowed Katie Cassidy one more opportunity to play Laurel Lance. A very different take on Laurel from the one seen in Arrow, but Laurel all the same. It was refreshing to see Cassidy cut loose and play a twisted, amoral version of her character. It’s the same appeal that made Carlos Valdes’ Reverb, Danielle Panabaker’s Killer Frost and Robbie Amell’s Deathstorm so entertaining. Honestly, it’s a shame Black Canary didn’t have a little more Black Siren in her all along. Laurel was never one of the stronger characters on Arrow, and having a harder edge and a more aggressive streak might have done wonders for her. Black Siren even looks cooler. Her outfit put her a little more in line with the comic book versions, plus she had an actual Canary Cry and not that worthless sonic necklace Cisco built. Is it too much to hope that Black Siren might stick around and replace the old Black Canary?

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/05/18/the-flash-invincible-review

Hmm. IDK about this. If Laurel had a more aggressive streak and a harder edge I probably still wouldn't have liked her. I like characters who are more morally ambiguous to have these traits, not characters who are seen/known as good, good (like superman good). 

And while I agree that LL on Arrow lacked a personality, I don't think her being more aggressive and harder edged would've been a good idea... Maybe out in the field? But not in general.

Edited May 18, 2016 by wonderwall

[Primal Slayer]

For me, Black Siren came across as strong, fairly smart, confident and not constantly having to screw up (though its only 1 episode so...). It wasn't totally perfect, but we shall see what future holds for the character.  

Edited May 18, 2016 by Primal Slayer

[catrox14]

I'm irrationally annoyed that Barry was wearing a bad version of Oliver's badass goldenrod jacket.

[NoWayOut]

We've only experienced it on two earths but I've concluded that the canary cry is awful on every earths and universes and alternate realities. Once is fine and cool but everything after just ups the annoyance factor.

[SmallScreenDiva]

12 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Hmm. IDK about this. If Laurel had a more aggressive streak and a harder edge I probably still wouldn't have liked her. I like characters who are more morally ambiguous to have these traits, not characters who are seen/known as good, good (like superman good). 

And while I agree that LL on Arrow lacked a personality, I don't think her being more aggressive and harder edged would've been a good idea... Maybe out in the field? But not in general.

It was the harder edge and being more aggressive in the first season that put me off her. Not even sure it worked on The Flash. She came across as somebody who was playacting at being evil instead of being actually evil. Also, was she drunk? She kept crossing her legs when she walked. Was that supposed to be a sexy, confident saunter? Because she just looked like she couldn't keep her balance and it cracked me up every single time. 

Wow, that was just horrible. I mean, the dead birds ended up being an augur of sorts for the end of Earth-2 but seeing them first on the ground, then seeing them hit the sides of the building was just hilarious (and shady AF for the writers, I thought. I'm pretty sure that was not the reaction The Flash wanted from me). Wally pulling a Felicity had me howling. Also, was the stunt double wearing a blonde wig or something? You can see lighter hair from whoever was rolling after the strike. 

[Chaser]

It was more in KC's wheelhouse so I think she was better. The thing that got me though is aside from BS being E2 LL, there wasn't anything unique about her. It honestly surprised me. Based on the comic preview and CVs comments, I assumed we would get another LL recon. Nope. Other then that ridiculous line by Caitlyn there was nothing but 'Oh its Laurel.' They barely reacted. Wells didn't even know who she was and Cisco was taunting her in the cell. They didn't even lay a tease at a return. She was a VOTW and that was it.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Chaser

[SmallScreenDiva]

They gotta know her fans were going to look at this ep as a sign of her second coming :P But what they got was Cisco shading her as a "pale imitation." Her acting, although still bad (that scene with Zoom was especially painful to watch; it was the affected breathing that was just plain weird) did kinda fit Flash a bit better, IMO, because the villains there tend to ham it up more than the ones on Arrow. 

[quarks]

Black Siren did have one genuinely smart, strategic moment in the episode - the bit where she threw something at Cisco to find out if he was right or left handed. Of course, the problem with this - a major problem - is that Reverb could have had a couple of reasons to use his right hand for that as well, and if she'd been wrong, well, we saw Reverb earlier. He had the power to strike back. And she didn't immediately use her cry to disable them - instead, she just taunted the two of them, without once thinking that they might have the weapons Joe was using to disable metahumans and/or powers of their own - as Cisco demonstrated just seconds later. So it was one smart, strategic moment followed by a series of failures.

Regarding the confidence - yeah, she had that, but that confidence was how she got taken out by a car, which in turn left Barry able to recover and then run round and round and round, disabling her and the other metahumans. Bluntly, that confidence ended up destroying Zoom's plans and was why she ended up in the Star Labs prison cell. Combined with the speech from Henry earlier in the episode, and what happened to him, I don't think we were supposed to regard that confidence as a strength for Black Siren. It was her weakness. 

 

 

Spoiler

 

[Primal Slayer]

She only failed by a device that she had no knowledge of and that took out anyone from E2 and a surprise car that came out of nowhere those arent things you really plan for. She would've succeeded if it werent for that which is good enough for me. Oliver, Barry, Team Flash, Team Arrow all got beat at times, it happens. She isn't Batman.

[CabotCove]

Quote

 

Parallels or rip offs? I guess imitation is the highest form of flattery, except I keep being told that Flash is soooo superior to Arrow.

Berlanti and Kreisberg wrote this episode, so maybe they still had Arrow season 2 in their drafts or something.

It had a pretty superior season 1, this season has been hit & miss, still a bit better than Arrow s2+ (imo). Fallen but still superior. But scrapping material from of a once OK show, that's kind of a big red alarm, TF season 3 might just be a disaster far worse than ArrowS3.  I wouldn't be surprised if Berlanti & co totally ruin Flash in its near future, they either get too smug or too lazy after a good first season. 

Quote

I'm glad that the psychics were wrong about Black Sirens death this episode. Overall I enjoyed her, would be nice to see her properly developed but who knows on that one.

I'm not convinced about the other type of psychics that are so sure she will join Arrow for season 5.   If Flash is smart they will keep her, there hasn't been a lot going on with the show lately, Black Siren would be a good addition . 

Edited May 18, 2016 by WildcardC

[lemotomato]

1 hour ago, wonderwall said:

Well...

Where I get the whole Flash is much more superior to Arrow is when S1/2 of Flash is compared to S3/4 of Arrow. 

These parallels/ripoffs are pretty much taken from the 2 supposed best seasons of Arrow. 

So logically it sorta makes sense? Kinda? IDK

Eh... I agree that Flash season 1 was better than Arrow season 3, but that's not saying much. But IMO, Flash season 2 is worse than Arrow season 4. And it's definitely inferior to Arrow season 2, even though it keeps borrowing from it. A pale imitation, as Cisco would day.

And I feel like most of the "Flash is better than Arrow" sentiment is due to Flash being more faithful to the comics, not really because of the show quality itself. 

[ruby24]

I just want the show to be light and fun again. I feel like THAT was what a lot of people liked about it, simply because it really stood out with its tone. It's been too damn dark this year.

Which is really surprising to me, because how on earth did they forget after ONE season that the sunny, goofy tone was the thing that most distinguished it? Barry being so mopey is a real downer, that's why everyone liked the Barry that showed up on Supergirl. It was like, hey, it's that guy again! Where's he been this year?

And now they kill his dad in front of him? Why do they keep going so dark?

Edited May 18, 2016 by ruby24

[CabotCove]

Quote

Which is really surprising to me, because how on earth did they forget after ONE season that the sunny, goofy tone was the thing that most distinguished it?

Maybe they dont know how good there were, and are trying to be like a certain terrible show? . It happens, Its like pop stars trying to be rock stars.

Quote

Barry being so mopey is a real downer, that's why everyone liked the Barry that showed up on Supergirl. It was like, hey, it's that guy again! Where's he been this year? And now they kill his dad in front of him? Why do they keep going so dark?

He doesnt have to go that light (imo), but he should be more lighter than dark. Henry spend many years of his life in a cell, it had to have had an effect on his health, they had a perfect reason to have him die from a natural death but sigh they chose to go this dark and less original. 

Edited May 18, 2016 by WildcardC

[wonderwall]

18 minutes ago, WildcardC said:

Maybe they dont know how good there were, and are trying to be like a certain terrible show? . It happens, Its like pop stars trying to be rock stars.

LOL because the tone is definitely Flash's biggest issue... Of course. 

But you're right. Flash does rip off a few things from Arrow. However, I feel like that says more about Flash writers than Arrow... And not in a good way:

S1 Arrow - 1/3 of the love triangle dies. 
S1 Flash - 1/3 of the love triangle dies.

S2 Arrow - Biological parent dies
S2 Flash - Biological parent dies

S2 Arrow - Army of mirakuru Soldiers
S2 Flash - Army of metas

2x22 Arrow - Felicity hits Isabel with Van
2x22 Flash - Wally hits Black Siren with Car

Arrow - Dark tone
S2 Flash - Darker tone

Edited May 18, 2016 by wonderwall

[CabotCove]

Quote

LOL because the tone is definitely Flash's biggest issue...

No thats more like Arrow's biggest excuse. 

Did I say It was?,I just agreeing with another poster who raised the issue. You cant go from super light to super dark and say that it had  no effect on the show or the main character. Being light is part of the show's DNA and this is a huge shift to the other end of the spectrum. I have said in my previous post that, this season is low on good material, it obviously has a writing problem.

Edited May 18, 2016 by WildcardC

[Trini]

3 hours ago, wonderwall said:

Apparently the whole 'asking out' part of it was... yikes :p "Let's give it a go" doesn't really scream endgame pairing/destiny

All the endgame stuff was in the previous episode. But WestAllen fans take what we can get; romance is an afterthought on Flash. :-/

Not too worried about Season 3 (yet); and the new consulting producer seems to care about including Iris. Fingers crossed.

[CabotCove]

57 minutes ago, WildcardC said:

 

Quote

However, I feel like that says more about Flash writers than Arrow... And not in a good way:

Ok yeah its not a good look on them (even though I think they made some of those concepts better than they were on Arrow, some were better on Arrow). Still, I have made it known that I think its problematic.

Quote

 

Not too worried about Season 3 (yet); and the new consulting producer seems to care about including Iris.

 

Who are they?

Edited May 18, 2016 by WildcardC

[looptab]

Ok, that was a weird episode. I don't think that KC was that much better, what with the strutting, the usual gasping voice, look down - look up thing. The eyelashes were even more distracting without the mask. But I'm glad if her fans enjoyed her. Maybe they are talking in terms of screen time, when they say she was treated as she deserved? I don't know, I haven't read anything elsewhere yet.

I, too, started laughing when they were showing the dead birds and thought it was a reference to her, LOL. And I definitely laughed when she got hit by the car. Still, I am glad that Team Flash didn't react to LL's death as some of the articles made it seem. It was just in passing, and it made me roll my eyes just a bit. Now, though, when has Team Flash ever met Sara? You want to keep the shows connected, fine, Arrowverse, but at least be consistent! 

I didn't have a problem with how Barry asked Iris out. It was low key, and it seemed appropriate fo the relationship they have at the moment, I don't think it needed to be a big deal. Granted, I missed the last two episodes and just read some comments here and there, and I'm not exactly invested in them.

They hit us on the head all season 1 about Barry seeing his mother die in front of him, and now they got technical about it in that he didn't actually see her die? Ok, then.