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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
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way2interested

way2interested

16 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Based on nothing but a guess, I expect Black Siren to be talked over to the good side by the end of her crossover episode on the Flash and then go home to inspire others to do better.  Off screen.

Kind of see this coming too. Not too fond about the comments that will come after this episode, but hey, it's a better ending than Killer Frost's. 

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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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Starfish35

Starfish35

It does start to look more like she (Black Siren) will survive.  Which is disappointing personally.  I was really hoping they'd kill her off so as to put an end to any speculation about her coming back in any fashion.  Ah well.  Obviously we can't all get what we want. Lol.

In other news, I watched Flashpoint Paradox on Netflix tonight.  That was....just a little dark.  Wow. 

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Trini

Trini

(edited)
36 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

In other news, I watched Flashpoint Paradox on Netflix tonight.  That was....just a little dark.  Wow. 

It was a lot dark, and I wasn't prepared when saw it either!

Edited by Trini
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looptab

looptab

I had similar thoughts about the fate of Black Siren right after the episode description and some of Carlos Valdes' comments came out. Eh, maybe it's wise, maybe it's not, I just want it to be over.

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bijoux

bijoux

2 hours ago, way2interested said:

Kind of see this coming too. Not too fond about the comments that will come after this episode, but hey, it's a better ending than Killer Frost's. 

What was her ending?

the spec about Black Siren is surprising, since I fully expected all three shows the beat the drum to the tune of This Death Is Real. I mean, it's still not E1 Laurel, so they may try to focus on that.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

Yeah kind of.  More obsessed.  He has some super Mommy issues that he's projecting onto her.  His father murdered his mother in front of him.  He's trying to turn Caitlin to the "dark side" I think.  

Edited by Starfish35
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Starfish35

Starfish35

Yeah poor Caitlin.  There was a scene where Iris is talking to her about Barry, and Iris asks her if she believes in destiny, and Caitlin says "maybe for you."  I know DP isn't the strongest actor, but I just felt so bad for Caitlin at that moment.

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Thundercatmary

Thundercatmary

On one hand I'm happy for KC fans if she sticks around as BS, on the other hand I've been getting really tired of some of her hard core fans. I've had to block several on twitter cause I'm just tired of seeing all the complaining, fighting etc. But I mostly stick with Arrow so hopefully it won't impact that show at all.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

It's funny, I just watched some Hallmark channel fluff piece starring DP that came out in 2014 and she was SOOOO much better in that  than she's been on Flash.  She wasn't that different from Caitlin, a real detail oriented person, focused but compassionate, but she was REAL and natural.  What did they do to her?

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Starfish35

Starfish35

Yeah I'm not sure either.  I'd seen DP in several things before Flash - in fact she was one of the only actors, possibly the only one, I was familiar with before the show started.  And I never had a problem with her in anything in anything I'd seen her in before.

Of course, even now, I don't have as many issues with her as others do to be honest, although I'll freely admit she's the weakest of the cast.  But I've had more issues with the writing for her this season than I have her acting. 

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nksarmi

nksarmi

(edited)

I don't have any issues with DP but I think she gets saddled with some of the worse writing I've seen on these three shows. I mean what they do with Thea is repetitive ad nasuem but Willa does get a chance to act every now and then.

Edited by nksarmi
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)
7 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Yeah kind of.  More obsessed.  He has some super Mommy issues that he's projecting onto her.  His father murdered his mother in front of him.  He's trying to turn Caitlin to the "dark side" I think.  

What's with all the Mommy issues?  Arrow had Anarky calling Thea "Mommy." 

Edited by tv echo
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quarks

quarks

I liked Caitlin a lot last year, and I thought she was fine in the season premiere, but since then she's been mostly stuck in this love plot with Jay Garrick and Zoom, and now, mostly getting to be a kidnap victim with the exception of one brief phone call. Sigh. 

I tend to like both Iris and Caitlin more when they actually get to do stuff. It would be nice if that gets to happen next season.

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Chaser

Chaser

8 hours ago, looptab said:

I had similar thoughts about the fate of Black Siren right after the episode description and some of Carlos Valdes' comments came out. Eh, maybe it's wise, maybe it's not, I just want it to be over.

What did CV say?

I would prefer they off LL there too. My worst case: She is reformed and goes off to E2 inspired to be BC. Then they hint that E2 is not completed closed in the finale. I would want to pull my hair out with the 'see she is totally coming back. this was all a setup for S5 Arrow.' 

Personally, I don't think there is any intention of bring KC back to Arrow but I don't want to hear about the possibility. 

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looptab

looptab

36 minutes ago, Chaser said:

What did CV say?

Quote

"Cisco reacts in a pretty unexpected way. There’s a little bit of a morbid shock, because the characters have an awareness to the fact that Laurel Lance is dead. That death had some effect on these characters in this world. So to see Black Siren, more than anything, is a shock to the senses. To know that someone relatively close to you is dead and to see a version of them still alive would be harrowing and jarring for anyone. There’s a bit of a disturbance there in terms of seeing her like that again." W

And I was actually wrong in my previous post, because what swayed me more into thinking that the heroes might try and reform her were the photos with Zoom - which seem to imply that she has some sort of relationship with him, so, since these shows are original, I thought Barry might use it to bring her on his side - rather than what CV said. That just annoyed me because, really? You cared so much about her? Please! 

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kismet

kismet

We have to be kind to the Flash Crew, tragic things don't happen to them. They don't see dead people all the time, like the people on Arrow do. It makes me think about one of my fav O/B scenes when they talk about the stark differences between SC & CC, as well as how emotionally healthy OQ is in A308. For as dark and tragic as Arrow is, I feel like the characters in SC are more emotionally adjusted, able to adapt and to deal with reality. Whereas on Flash, everyone seems to live in an emotional bubble, is unable to deal with reality and always needs to be protected. Of course seeing "dead people" would throw them for a loop. I think Cisco is still trying to emotionally process months later that he is/was a "bad guy" on another E2. The Flash Crew is very rudimentary in their thinking, especially if it involves using any portion of their EQ (emotional intelligence).

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

May 16, 2016 ComicBook article with MG interview about LoT (warning: spoilery) - more of this interview will be published on Thursday after LoT's season finale has aired (I've quoted a non-spoilery portion):

Quote

Well, here's the thing: do you guys ever talk about balancing stuff like that, where people really want to see it, versus introducing new characters and expanding out the DC Universe even more?

Well, and I know there are plenty of people on my Twitter feed who don't believe this, we don't start an episode with "how do we please the fans this week?" If there's anybody who we're trying to please when we make these episodes, it's us.

That isn't to say that we don't want the fans to be happy, but I've found that when you set out to please everybody, it hardly ever works and it doesn't usually make for good storytelling. When we set out to make the show that we would want to watch, that's when it tends to be its best.

So we don't start with trying to build a story around a character we want to include. We start with what's happening in the characters' lives, and we ask what's cool, what's fun, and what do we want to see?

You can't feel obligated to check a box. The most assured way to not please the fans is to try too hard to please the fans and lose sight of story and characters.

Edited by tv echo
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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

Congratulations, Flash...you had one job!  Now we're going to hear Laurel is returning to Arrow haha lolz till the end of time.  Sigh.  Personally, I don't think KC is ever coming back to Arrow (or LoT, for that matter, since MG is involved over there as well), but whatever, she can show up on The Flash.  I don't care cause I don't watch.  But if that happens, I will be reading online threads to watch KC get ripped apart for "stealing" Iris' screentime.    

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tarotx

tarotx

(edited)

I think Black Siren is just going to be EVIL on Flash to prove that a doppelganger isn't an option to bring dead characters back to life. They are going to hit  the "bring Laurel back" with Time travel issue on LOT

Edited by tarotx
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Of course he's just standing there chatting with her instead of superspeeding her out of commission, so she has a chance to take him out. This better not be followed by ANOTHER "Run, Barry. Run!" pep talk. I CAN ONLY TAKE SO MUCH.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

Yeah, agreed. I figure the point of E2 Laurel is simply to lampshade the fact that you can't just replace people who died with their alternate reality copy. Whether she ends up dead or not is kinda irrelevant to that point.

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tv echo

tv echo

Ugh... that teaser clip doesn't exactly make me want to watch Flash.

BTW, I just saw the ABC schedule and Agents of SHIELD is being pushed back to 10pm on Tuesdays next season.  I guess ABC really doesn't care about that show's ratings anymore.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

1 minute ago, dtissagirl said:

Yeah, agreed. I figure the point of E2 Laurel is simply to lampshade the fact that you can't just replace people who died with their alternate reality copy. Whether she ends up dead or not is kinda irrelevant to that point.

What are the chances that someone says, "But she's not our Laurel" at some point in this ep? 

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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

(edited)

Yeah...I know people have mentioned that they think a villain type role would've been more fitting for KC...but I wasn't "wowed" by that little clip.  I still find the acting really bad.

Edited by SonofaBiscuit
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)
3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

What are the chances that someone says, "But she's not our Laurel" at some point in this ep? 

All the chances? It's not like Flash isn't the single most didactic show In the history of After School Special teevee, OH WAIT.

Edited by dtissagirl
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lemotomato

lemotomato

For all that I complain about the lack of Arrow promotion, I find it curious there's no big media push-- interviews and stuff-- for tonight's Flash episode. There was more hype for the Kevin Smith directed episode last week.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

7 minutes ago, looptab said:

I loved that Sara clip. If it wasn't about Laurel, I would be wishing for her to succeed.

I don't know what to say about that other clip..

Yay only one more episode until we're done with Savage forever (hopefully)?

I'm looking forward to Sara's reaction. I'm wondering how they're going to make it impossible for her to go back.

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looptab

looptab

(edited)

Me too. That clip made me almost cry, when no other character's reaction to Laurel's death got me even near to that on Arrow.

I'm a little behind on Legends, but yes please, no more Savage!

Edited by looptab
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Lady Calypso

Lady Calypso

That BS scene with Barry was...not good. Barry literally stood there and did nothing. I get if BS had caught him off guard, but he had ample time to prepare himself. I bet they'll use the excuse "He was taken by surprise at seeing Laurel who's supposed to be dead!" and I'll just roll my eyes. After meeting so many doppelgangers from Earth-2, you'd think he would be less surprised. Plus, when he met Killer Frost and Deathstorm for the first time, he was surprised, but it did not make him look like a total idiot. And he knows Ronnie is dead! So ridiculous. 

I just have a feeling Barry's going to be underminded as an idiot, as he sometimes is against villains, to make BC look menacing and scary. Literally, he could run circles around her before she has a chance to charge up her scream. 

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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)
10 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

just have a feeling Barry's going to be underminded as an idiot, as he sometimes is against villains, to make BC look menacing and scary. Literally, he could run circles around her before she has a chance to charge up her scream. 

The titular hero's abilities are dumbed down to make KC's character more "badass". Sounds familiar.

Edited by lemotomato
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Starfish35

Starfish35

46 minutes ago, tv echo said:

BTW, I just saw the ABC schedule and Agents of SHIELD is being pushed back to 10pm on Tuesdays next season.  I guess ABC really doesn't care about that show's ratings anymore.

Yeah that was interesting.  That slot has become a "death slot" for ABC, and AoS's ratings haven't been that great lately anyway.  And it's getting a two-hour comedy lead-in. 

Long story short, next season will probably be the last.  Not sure how much I care at this point, especially since no one's saying anything about Bobbi and Hunter coming back. In fact I might almost think the subject's being carefully avoided.

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

To be fair, Barry is usually pretty dumb when facing villains for the first time. 

 

 

 

(Or always)

Also true.

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Midnight Lullaby

Midnight Lullaby

Sara's reaction to Laurel's death was stronger and more emotional IMO than everyone else's reaction on Arrow. Finally a job well done I might say because I thought Lance was too over the top, her mom, Thea and Oliver didn't really care and Felicity and Dig felt guilty. It was all so weird.

I find the new cry quite ridiculous, it looks like she is throwing up. Also I don't really like when to show that a woman is evil they make her use her sensuality to look, confident I guess? 

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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

(edited)
Quote

Also I don't really like when to show that a woman is evil they make her use her sensuality to look, confident I guess? 

OK, good.  It's not just me?   BS was coming across very flirty, I suppose, with the way she was speaking and strutting.  But KC tended to talk like that all of the time on Arrow when she was trying to be badass (why???), so KC the villain just looks a lot like Laurel to me.    

Edited by SonofaBiscuit
Confused spoiler button with quote button, ha!
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wonderwall

wonderwall

9 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Sara's reaction to Laurel's death was stronger and more emotional IMO than everyone else's reaction on Arrow. Finally a job well done I might say because I thought Lance was too over the top, her mom, Thea and Oliver didn't really care and Felicity and Dig felt guilty. It was all so weird.

I find the new cry quite ridiculous, it looks like she is throwing up. Also I don't really like when to show that a woman is evil they make her use her sensuality to look, confident I guess? 

I can definitely understand why they'd falter with Digg/Felicity/Oliver's reactions. Because I never felt the sense that even the writers knew what kind of relationship these 3 had with Laurel. It was all over the place. 

This is why I think they wrote Lance to be too OOT because no one else was really grieving. Kind of like how Felicity in season 3 was the person who had the emotional role in the show. 

What I don't understand is why they didn't even show Thea's reaction... Maybe they did but cut it for time? We did see her grieving and hugging Oliver in the promo pics...

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