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The trailer indicated Three Seasons! 

After watching the great Chernobyl, I am so ready for another show about a Nuclear Plant accident.

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I hope we get more amazing music. "A Quiet Life" is STILL stuck in my head!

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DARK is here!!!

I think we can safely say that there are three seasons based on the triangle star thing with the three years that is always shown. Also think Jonas should be happy that at 50 years old he looks at least 7-10 years younger!😀

From what I've heard, this season seems to be a bit more of the sci-fi rather than the time travel genre. Admit to being hesitant about the dystopian future Jonas is in as it could get real cheesy and so far this show walked the fine line. Luckily, they filmed this season pretty quickly after the first since the younger actors-especially Michal grow up very quickly. 

Now all Netflix needs is to air Season 3 of Babylon Berlin with the fine Volker Bruch and I'll have my German TV fix.

Edited to add that I think the watchmaker is a more central figure than what we have seen so far. He's the only one-except for Noah that really doesn't have a backstory yet.

Edited by Tardislass
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One of the few constants on this show is Hannah's awfulness.

There was so much going on that I'll have to watch it again at a slower pace to make sure I understand what's happening and who's who. But I was happy to see from one of the creators that season 3 should be coming out some time in 2020.

Edited by krankydoodle
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I watched all of the second season only to have to go back and rewatch the first.  Still interesting.

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I love this show,  but boy is it hard to keep up with all the characters.  There is so many reveals of who is actually related to who,  and people interacting with their older or younger self. 

I definitely need to watch again.  I will have to start from the beginning to really understand,  lol. 

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I like this show but not a fan of how things turned out. And agree with the poster who said that Hannah is the worst!

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I am rewatching S1 now before I start S2 and am realizing things I had missed the first time around, probably because it was hard to keep track of all the people at different ages and their relationships. I am now 20 minutes into episode 3 of S1 and realizing how tragic it must have been for Michael Kahnwald (formerly Mikkel Nielsen) to not just be cast back in time and lose his family, but to realize who they were as they all grew up together (with him being just a few years younger than his father and mother) and they started to look like the parents he remembered and then have his older siblings. Of course, he may have realized who they were from the moment he saw that he was in 1986 and heard their names, but it must have been difficult to wrap his head around this as a child and so he may have not fully understood until some years went by. But after young Mikkel was born he must have understood that there were now two versions of himself in the current timeline and that young Mikkel would disappear and go back to 1986, thus beginning the tragedy of Michael's life. What I still am not sure of is whether he committed suicide before or at the same time as young Mikkel disappeared, and if he did this in hopes of preventing the whole thing from happening. 

Also in episode 3 while still in the hospital he tells his nurse and soon-to-be adoptive mother Ines Kahnwald that he comes from the future; in the moment she probably thinks he is saying that because she just gave him some Captain Future comic books, but as the years went on she may have remembered this and realized he was telling the truth--assuming she knew that before he refused to give his name and parents' names to her and the doctor, he had told the police that his father was Ulrich Nielsen. 

Rewatching S1 also reinforces the popular opinion that Hannah is the worst!

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Spoiler

So did the deaf girl give birth to her mother, Charlotte? With Noah? So many crazy reveals!

Question for those who have seen all episodes 

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15 minutes ago, ihartcoffee said:

So did the deaf girl give birth to her mother, Charlotte? With Noah? So many crazy reveals! 

Yes! It's bonkers!

I'm rewatching season 1 and had forgotten that Helge is Peter's father, but who's Peter's mother? And Helge's mother said she didn't know who his father was, so what's going on there?

I was disappointed that we didn't see Tronte and Jana in season 2. Jana especially must have been devastated at losing her other son, and I thought since Tronte knew some of what was going on and was having an affair with Claudia in the 80s that he would show up at some point.

I'm having trouble deciding who has it worst since there are even more characters having a terrible time this season. Claudia's poor secretary (and maybe the French delegation) should definitely be in the running. Seriously, though, there were so many heartbreaking moments. Egon became one of my favorite characters and his fate was tough to watch.

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I finished season 2 last night, and I am shook. 

I loved seeing the other Winden residents slowly finding out about time travel (Katharina's initial reaction was both amusing and heartbreaking). The writers did an excellent job of bringing the other characters besides Jonas, Mikkel and Ulrich into the larger story.

In the midst of a more expanded story and more timelines, I was heartened to see that the writers kept so much focus on the characters and their inner lives. That focus resulted in some of the best scenes of this series. Case in point: the relationship between Claudia and her father, Egon unfolding over the decades was poignant and made Egon's death all the more heartbreaking.

Same with the scene where Jonas tries to stop Michael from dying by suicide. There's so much pain and emotion on both their faces in that moment. It's so painful to watch, but also I couldn't look away. Just thinking of that scene makes my chest tighten. 

Those are the kind of scenes that first drew me into this show, and I'm glad to see the writers kept the emotional core of the show.

On the time travel front - I am super intrigued to learn where Goth Future Martha (that's what I'm calling her for now) came from. And where Katharina ended up. And if that's Franziska with Magnus in 1921 serving Adam/Jonas.

Whew! In case you couldn't tell, I'm still deeply in love with this show. Will probably have more to say after I've re-watched.

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1 hour ago, krankydoodle said:
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Yes! It's bonkers!

I'm rewatching season 1 and had forgotten that Helge is Peter's father, but who's Peter's mother? And Helge's mother said she didn't know who his father was, so what's going on there?

I was disappointed that we didn't see Tronte and Jana in season 2. Jana especially must have been devastated at losing her other son, and I thought since Tronte knew some of what was going on and was having an affair with Claudia in the 80s that he would show up at some point.

I'm having trouble deciding who has it worst since there are even more characters having a terrible time this season. Claudia's poor secretary (and maybe the French delegation) should definitely be in the running. Seriously, though, there were so many heartbreaking moments. Egon became one of my favorite characters and his fate was tough to watch.

Spoiler

OMG I forgot the secretary!  So much happens,  it's hard to keep up.  I'm still mindblown over the Charlotte parentage twist.... how is it possible? Chicken or egg....

I'm starting over from the beginning too and man do they foreshadow like crazy.  Now I'm getting it more.  S2 revealed a lot that I now see in S1.

I'm rewatching too, and I'm finding it easier to follow.  

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Whew! I have a lot to process. Glad there will be a season 3.

I like how personal this show is. Poor young Jonas. Glad there is an alternate timeline to keep things from getting too...dark.

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I feel sorry for Bartosz. 

Spoiler

Not only does he get conned by Noah, beat up by the teen gang and left in the cave overnight but he gets killed by young Noah at the behest of Adam for being a non-believer. Plus his mom is dying from cancer. Talk about a bad life. No one except his family cared about him.

After watching a second time, I'm amazed at all the little details that may be missed the first time. Even the name of the book that Elizabeth picks up in her great-grandfather's workshop

Spoiler

The Kybalion

has some hidden meaning. I'm so glad they mapped out their three seasons and are ending it. 

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1 hour ago, ihartcoffee said:
  Reveal spoiler

OMG I forgot the secretary!  So much happens,  it's hard to keep up.  I'm still mindblown over the Charlotte parentage twist.... how is it possible? Chicken or egg....

I'm starting over from the beginning too and man do they foreshadow like crazy.  Now I'm getting it more.  S2 revealed a lot that I now see in S1.

I'm rewatching too, and I'm finding it easier to follow.  

Spoiler

Thought it was ironic that the people hung in the dystopian future were French and then Claudia just cancels a meeting with the French delegation onsite. There are no coincidences in this show.

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Spoiler

 From the article linked to from @ihartcoffee:

"Charlotte and Elisabeth are both mother and daughter to each other, creating a biological causal loop with no origin."

I need more coffee.

Edited by marinw
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Hi everyone, 

Stop using spoiler tags for events that happened in the first and second seasons of the show. I appreciate the desire to be considerate but the show has now aired worldwide.  Anyone who enters who hasn't watched the whole thing is going to risk being spoiled. Such is the nature of the streaming game.

If you'd like to be considerate of people who haven't watched the whole thing, you can specify the episode you're talking about so people can skip but no more spoiler tags unless you're talking about actual spoilers for the third season. 

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I was distressed at the reveal that Adam is Future Jonas because Young Jonas and Middle-Aged Jonas are so handsome, and at some point Jonas will have his Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader transformation.

I'm very shallow

Edited by marinw
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yes! I had forgotten season 2 had dropped. I loved season 1 even though I had to rewatch many episodes a few times over. I'm only halfway through S2 and its picking up steam. Glad there's a final season on the way. I was obsessed with the S1 soundtrack for a long time. I don't have any specific questions yet but as a heads up, the official Dark website on Netflix is a very useful resource!

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On the casting front, whoever's responsible did an excellent job. Not only is the acting impressive all around, but I initially thought that old Ulrich was the adult actor with old age makeup.

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3 hours ago, marinw said:

I was distressed at the reveal that Adam is Future Jonas because Young Jonas and Middle-Aged Jonas are so handsome, and at some point Jonas will have his Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader transformation.

I'm very shallow

So am I and that was my first thought too.

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4 hours ago, shimarella said:

was obsessed with the S1 soundtrack for a long time.

Not sure if the music for this season is as memorable. The cover for Arcade Fire's "My Body Is a Cage" was an unexpected chioce for the final episode. I was expecting "You Want it Darker" by the late Leonard Cohen.

Edited by marinw
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So I've almost got my head around Charlotte>Elizabeth>Charlotte. But I'm still puzzled by the pocket watch that says For Charlotte. We know in Season 1 that Noah gave Elizabeth the watch for her mother(we know also why he knows sign language). I'm assuming Noah knew Elizabeth was going to be his wife but NOT that Charlotte was his daughter. We see Elizabeth has the watch at the end of Season 2 when she's at the bunker. It's likely she shows young Noah the watch that is for her mother and tells him how she received it.

But who made the watch? Charlotte's grandfather-the clock maker? Also hoping that whatever relationship Noah and Elli had was years after the bunker. Because a 16-17 year old liking a 10 yr old is just eww though not uncommon in Winden. I also find it fascinating that everyone finds their partner in their teens. Magnus and Martha's parents, Ulrich and Katarina, Hannah and Michael. Same with their children- Franziska and Magnus, Martha and Jonas, etc. Hmm.

On 6/25/2019 at 7:01 PM, Enigma X said:

So am I and that was my first thought too.

I'm thinking that since Jonas isn't having luck in changing the future than perhaps The Stranger/older Jonas will be the one who actually defeats Adam. 

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On 6/25/2019 at 5:56 PM, krankydoodle said:

On the casting front, whoever's responsible did an excellent job. Not only is the acting impressive all around, but I initially thought that old Ulrich was the adult actor with old age makeup.

It’s not?!? I thought it was the same actor too! 

Do people in Germany always knock on doors so loudly and urgently? The banging on doors was stressing me out! Also, is it normal to just walk into someone’s home if they don’t answer the door? LOL! I notice the silliest things 

This is the best series I’ve seen in a while.   Certainly the best Nexflix series. From the actors, the storyline to the music (including the opening song. So haunting) I’m so sad I have to wait a year To be swept away in it  again 

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9 hours ago, Rabithed said:

It’s not?!? I thought it was the same actor too! 

Do people in Germany always knock on doors so loudly and urgently? The banging on doors was stressing me out! Also, is it normal to just walk into someone’s home if they don’t answer the door? LOL! I notice the silliest things 

This is the best series I’ve seen in a while.   Certainly the best Nexflix series. From the actors, the storyline to the music (including the opening song. So haunting) I’m so sad I have to wait a year To be swept away in it  again 

Yeah the door banging was hysterical! And no one took off their shoes upon entering-another German trait.

It's probably like the way people must think all Americans talk on the cell phone without introducing themselves and hang up without saying goodbye. That drives me nuts that characters just say their piece and hang up. Like what? There is a video out on Youtube with the cast going over Tweets from German viewers. One of the complaints was how is there such great cell phone reception in a small German town and even in bunkers and caves! LOL.

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I need to find that YT video! That sounds hilarious. I agree that the soundtrack this season wasn't as compelling although the cover of My Body is a Cage was perfect. I was holding my breath at some points during that whole scene. I can't wait fir Season 3, not just to see how they tackled the conclusion but then I can rewatch all three seasons and really enjoy all the little details. For me, Season Two took a few episodes to build and then once Episode 4 got going, it all made sense. Seeing the consequences of how the time-travel messed up relationships and ruined people's lives both with what they knew and didn't know. I suppose Season 3 will be a full-out battle against the Travellers ( and I can't decide yet if they really are the villains). Not sure how I feel about the addition of dimensions as well as timelines, since they only have one season to wrap it but I'm sure it will be a wacky ride. Finally , I sincerely hope that Hannah gets a comeuppance. I almost felt sorry for her when Mikel was too depressed to leave the house, then she made it all about her anyway. Jonas was right, she "needs no one". She seems to be the only one like that, so I wonder what Season 3 holds for her. 

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Katharina can be a nasty piece of work in every timeline, but I couldn't figure out why she was so horrid to Grown-Up Jonas while shouting out who he was to Martha? 

I imagine S3 will track how Grown-Up Jonas became Charbroiled Jonas/Adam, but I am having difficulty wrapping my mind around how he could end up doing such a 180 in regards to time traveling.

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The video is in German but it's cute. The guy who plays Noah is especially funny as they ask the cast what other character would they want to play and the actor says, "are you kidding, I'm Noah!" There's also a funny tweet about Noah being a dumb but hot priest. 

As for Season 3, it will be nice to tie things together though I worry we'll have all the cast gong through dimensions and/or timelines and I think that big painting in Adam's office will be a key point(as the closeup were heavy-handed).I'm hoping we'll see more of Mags and Franziska journey from rebels to slaves of the religion-or are they? When they were leading Young Noah out Magnus gave old Noah a look that Noah returned. Like something between them, but then they were fine with him being killed. Are they really as devoted as they look to Adam?

Another thing that bugs me is if baby Charlotte was transported to another time and Noah and Charlotte could time travel, why was Elizabeth left in the dystopian future. From the story, it seems like Noah and Elizabeth loved each other. I can't believe Noah would leave her in a dystopian world. The only thing I'm certain is that Jonas and Martha will end up together. When characters profess their love throughout time-you know they are the super couple. So obviously something would happen to not make her his aunt.

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I really like this show but can’t help to think that 50% of the conflict would have been cleared up either if the older selves told their younger selves specific things or if people from different timelines just killed others from other timelines. 

My annoyance with time travel plots is that neither one of those things is an option until it is.

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53 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I really like this show but can’t help to think that 50% of the conflict would have been cleared up either if the older selves told their younger selves specific things or if people from different timelines just killed others from other timelines. 

My annoyance with time travel plots is that neither one of those things is an option until it is.

As someone else pointed out, why does the villain in James Bond movies never just shoot him in the head like a normal person would? Or in horror movies, have the young people call the cops when they hear screams from an abandoned building rather than going inside? It's fiction:) 

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Season 2 got a bit more complicated than I would have preferred, I think. I mean, I like that it's smart and ambitious but I have so many questions, and there are so many paradoxes. 

I think I managed to follow most of it, and I was glad they cleared up how Mikkel made his way to 1986 because we never saw him discover the tunnel or the door. But I'm still confused about the tunnels and their connection (if any) to the power plant, and the time machines. It seemed like three different characters had the same time machine at the same time, but had gotten it from different timelines. So confusing!

Also totally confused about the Noah/Elizabeth/Charlotte thing. I wish we had learned more about Noah this season because he's still pretty much an enigma. I mean we found out who Adam is but not Noah. C'mon. And now he's dead but nobody is dead dead since they still exist in other timelines. And now, different dimensions? Gah!

The worst part was I was thinking there were 10 episodes so when the 8th ended and there were no more I was really mad. 😞

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This is a show to give up making sense and just enjoy the ride. You can puzzle it together and watch it a second time, but at my first run through through season 2 I felt it best to just lean back and watch. It takes so much away from guessing about where this can lead. It let‘s you enjoy the character moments which are the best about this show. (Actually true for any show, they‘d just be athmosphere or mystery and that is boring).

I enjoyed it a lot, but I will have forgotten nearly everything by next year and season 3. It really is confusing to make sense of all the familial connections... I liked the future and that it was a relatively minor part and I liked that the next season will again play in Winden in the existing sets and locations, even though we just saw the apocalypse. A good show reinvents itself with every season, Dark definitively did. Although that slow episode before the climax was needed, in the midst of all that time travel stuff.

One last comment: Does it make sense to say that Hannah may have lived the happiest life? If she truly just vanished into 1954 or so and created a new life for herself, she‘s the one outside it all? She‘s not stuck 66 years in the past, she‘s not the mother of her daughter, she doesn‘t have to stay alone fighting in a war for 50 years, she doesn‘t get scared. So far, of course. She has to give away the time machine one time, or maybe that‘s the end of the travel for the time machine? (And please don‘t tell me now that Hannah resurfaced somewhere in the episodes and I didn‘t get it... :)).

And truly last comment: Why do they all meet their soulmates in their teenage years and never leave Winden? Because it‘s fiction and you can do that in a book, but it gets really complicated on TV. Also, the detective remarks as much... 

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Observation..... people in this show love to stare at pictures from the past,  usually of themselves with someone

Hannah is constantly staring at the folded one with Ulrich. 

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On ‎7‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 3:09 PM, iMonrey said:

Also totally confused about the Noah/Elizabeth/Charlotte thing. I wish we had learned more about Noah this season because he's still pretty much an enigma.

I guess we have to assume that young Noah and Elisabeth are in the bunker and then somehow also get transported back in time?  This whole my daughter is my mother thing is very troubling.

On ‎6‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 11:40 AM, Enigma X said:

I really like this show but can’t help to think that 50% of the conflict would have been cleared up either if the older selves told their younger selves specific things or if people from different timelines just killed others from other timelines. 

And when they do tell their younger selves, they lie!

On ‎6‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 12:43 PM, Tardislass said:

Another thing that bugs me is if baby Charlotte was transported to another time and Noah and Charlotte could time travel, why was Elizabeth left in the dystopian future. From the story, it seems like Noah and Elizabeth loved each other.

So I wondered about this too but the Elisabeth in the post Apocalypse world has to be the young Elisabeth in the bunker who survived but lived in this horrible world.  It would be 32 years later so that makes sense to me.  Or am I not getting this right? But I do not get how Elisabeth then could be her mother's mother.  😕

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On ‎6‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 8:40 PM, Tardislass said:

Not only does he get conned by Noah, beat up by the teen gang and left in the cave overnight but he gets killed by young Noah at the behest of Adam for being a non-believer.

How did I miss this?  Was this at the end?

I too felt sorry for him.

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15 hours ago, bannana said:

I guess we have to assume that young Noah and Elisabeth are in the bunker and then somehow also get transported back in time?  This whole my daughter is my mother thing is very troubling.

And when they do tell their younger selves, they lie!

So I wondered about this too but the Elisabeth in the post Apocalypse world has to be the young Elisabeth in the bunker who survived but lived in this horrible world.  It would be 32 years later so that makes sense to me.  Or am I not getting this right? But I do not get how Elisabeth then could be her mother's mother.  😕

Yes, it's the younger Elizabeth from the bunker. Watching Season 1 again, it seems she is 9 years old in 2020 which is kind of creepy since young Noah looks about 17. Really hope a decade or so goes by before they get together and have a baby. But given the weird relationships in this show, I'm not holding my breathe.

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7 minutes ago, Tardislass said:

Yes, it's the younger Elizabeth from the bunker. Watching Season 1 again, it seems she is 9 years old in 2020 which is kind of creepy since young Noah looks about 17. Really hope a decade or so goes by before they get together and have a baby. But given the weird relationships in this show, I'm not holding my breathe.

I think it does make sense that a decade goes by because the photo we see of Noah and the baby as an infant is not young Noah.

So I have been trying to wrap my head around this.  Charlotte is maybe a tween in 86 when she sees the dead birds?  And somewhere I read that the only person who can travel to any time frame (rather than designated ones) is Adam.  So surmising that Adam took baby Charlotte to say 1976, Charlotte grows up with her "grandfather" and then meets Peter and they have Elisabeth in 2000.  Still hurts my head to think about it.

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23 hours ago, bannana said:

I guess we have to assume that young Noah and Elisabeth are in the bunker and then somehow also get transported back in time?  This whole my daughter is my mother thing is very troubling.

And when they do tell their younger selves, they lie!

So I wondered about this too but the Elisabeth in the post Apocalypse world has to be the young Elisabeth in the bunker who survived but lived in this horrible world.  It would be 32 years later so that makes sense to me.  Or am I not getting this right? But I do not get how Elisabeth then could be her mother's mother.  😕

Nothing made me happier than the moment I got to yell 'she's her own grandmother!' at the screen. Oh Dark, what a supremely wild flex.

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2 hours ago, Dame sans merci said:

Nothing made me happier than the moment I got to yell 'she's her own grandmother!' at the screen. Oh Dark, what a supremely wild flex.

The writers must have had fun in the writers room. 

-Dudes, let's make Jonas' dad Mikkel. So he can date his girlfriend and his aunt.

-Even better how about making someone their mother and their daughter so her sister will be both a daughter and her aunt.

High fives all around.

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This is a show to give up making sense and just enjoy the ride. You can puzzle it together and watch it a second time, but at my first run through through season 2 I felt it best to just lean back and watch. It takes so much away from guessing about where this can lead. It let‘s you enjoy the character moments which are the best about this show. (Actually true for any show, they‘d just be athmosphere or mystery and that is boring).

I have to disagree. When a show is well written it's much more rewarding when everything makes sense. If a story is just a convoluted mess that doesn't follow any consistent logic I'm not going to "enjoy the ride." I, for one, do not enjoy being taken for a ride. Which I why I quickly became disenchanted with Lost.

So far, Dark has done a very good job of making sense. It just got a little more confusing in Season 2. I'd have to re-watch and maybe map a few things out to understand it all but I do believe the writers put the work in to make this all "logical," as far as time travel is concerned.

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Sure, it's always better if a set-up works with a consistent logic. It's only that I feel that to be a pretty high standard for a time travel story. And it seems to me they could pretty much explain anything with the time travel and now dimensions that they want to. 

I personally put more value on the aesthetics (character interactions, visuals, settings, camerawork, and so on) than trying to understand everything in detail. Often, especially on these web forums, the discussion turns more around understanding the plot. I just wanted to emphasize these other aspects. F.e.is it okay for Jonas to pursue his aunt as a love interest in a world and a life "without a happy end"? Not sure, but i find debating that as more interesting than to plot the itinerary of the single time machine throughout the years and persons.

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I had forgotten how good this show was and loved this second season. I like the approach of time travel where the past doesn't change, if something happened, or happened and going only means that you created it, like Claudia killing Egon trying To save him, same with Jonas trying to prevent his Dad from killing himself.

This show goes really deep in family dynamics, and props to the actors who sell the emotion really well. Claudia/Egon, Jonas/Michael, Mikkel/Ulrich, all their interactions were beautifully done.

The casting is fantastic, old Ulrich and ils Magnus really look like the actors were aged up

I was gutted by the Charlotte/Elisabeth reveal, what a strange loop here 

Now season 3 opens on something else, I really can't wait to see where it leads 

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I'm getting the feeling in Season 3 that Jonas will be able to save some people but not all. I do think Season 2 has messed up the cycle, now that Katarina is traveling to somewhere and Alternate Martha has appeared. They've showed that little things can change, like the second cycle Martha/Jonas have sex but not in the first cycle. I do think Jonas will be saved but that he'll be the Jonas who brought Mikkel back to the cave. He doesn't remember doing that because he hadn't done it yet when he talked to his father. So there will be some sacrifices. 

The whole Doppler family is a paradox including Peter as we've never seen him as a young teen AND it's hard to imagine Helge marrying a woman and having a child. Personally, I wouldn't mind if they got rid of Martha because she's bugged me from day one with everyone fighting over her-gag. I do have a theory that future girl who knows sign language is a family member of hers.

Or it could just end with young Jonas waking up gasping at the mental hospital where he was after his father died and telling his doctor about the crazy dream he had. 

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On 12/18/2017 at 5:53 PM, truthaboutluv said:

That said, for as much as I enjoyed this show, I don't know if I'm so eager to see a second season. It was certainly a fascinating exploration of family, love, good vs. evil, all set against a backdrop of science fiction and the whole age old questions of time and how our lives are shaped, etc. But I found it a bit slow and frustrating at times and just wasn't deeply engrossed enough all the way through to feel excited at a potential second season. 

I've now watched almost all of the second season (spoiler-free content to follow). And I'm with you. My interest in this show was and is in the actual mystery of the mythology and mechanism for time travel. I don't care about the angst of these characters over the years, beyond getting an overall sense of who they are and their history. The momentum slowed down about midway through season two, because the show paused to fill out character backstories. Some people love that stuff. It bores me to tears. And so many shows fall victim to it (Lost being a primary example).  Some people like to say "it's about the characters." No it isn't, not when the wider mythology is fascinating and mysterious and the reason you watch the show.

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