S03.E04: Naughty Or Nice

[WendyCR72]

Last episode until the new year.

The last episode of the year.Dr. Charles learns a troubling fact about the man who shot him. Dr. Rhodes and Dr. Bekker come to an agreement during a complicated surgery. Will and Natalie are trapped by legal ethics when an unfaithful husband refuses to tell his wife about his inconclusive Zika test. Meanwhile, April and Noah discover working together isn't always easy while Goodwin continues to argue with the board over hospital costs after an avoidable patient death.

[preeya]

On 12/10/2017 at 5:47 PM, WendyCR72 said:

The last episode of the year.Dr. Charles learns a troubling fact about the man who shot him. Dr. Rhodes and Dr. Bekker come to an agreement during a complicated surgery. Will and Natalie are trapped by legal ethics when an unfaithful husband refuses to tell his wife about his inconclusive Zika test. Meanwhile, April and Noah discover working together isn't always easy while Goodwin continues to argue with the board over hospital costs after an avoidable patient death.

 

All wrapped up in one very clean bow. And there was an Olinsky sighting.

Edited December 13, 2017 by preeya

[BooksRule]

I knew that Robin's 'rats in the ceiling' would have a perfectly logical explanation.  No surprises there.

I didn't really understand why Will spent a couple of hours trying to find a way to notify the wife about the husband.  Any time there is a possibility of an infectious disease being present, wouldn't one of the first things they are supposed to do is call the CDC?  Let them make the call about what to do next.  Or they should have at least notified Goodwin and let her decide to call them.  

Noah isn't my favorite character (I'm still waiting for him to mature a little), but he was totally right about having April back off.  She was out of line.

I never thought that Christmas trees would be the common factor in the spread of whatever-that-was that the brother had.  When the sister mentioned eggnog, I thought it was going to be contaminated dairy that was the culprit.

[Netfoot]

42 minutes ago, BooksRule said:

I never thought that Christmas trees would be the common factor in the spread of whatever-that-was that the brother had.

Leptospirosis.  Lepto.  Can be fatal.  We get a few cases from time to time.  Usually attributed to contamination by rodents.  Never knew you could catch it from trees!

[Sandman]

Oh, my God! They never would have killed Santa over at County!

I call shenanigans over Mr. Kim's behaviour -- I can't quite believe that he would refuse to come clean with his wife about an affair, and risk having a microcephalic baby. Or maybe I just don't want to?

Also, has April really never heard the word "trayf"/"treif" before? She's never had a patient drop some Yiddish into a conversation? Is that more of a New York stereotype than a Chicago one? (How old am I??)

Edited December 13, 2017 by Sandman
Why so many questions?

[Xantar]

2 hours ago, BooksRule said:

I knew that Robin's 'rats in the ceiling' would have a perfectly logical explanation.  No surprises there.

...

Noah isn't my favorite character (I'm still waiting for him to mature a little), but he was totally right about having April back off.  She was out of line.

The entire time that Robin and Connor were standing in the hall, I was shouting at the TV, "Go into her office and see if you can hear it too!" But at least she was able to admit to him that she was hearing something and wasn't in denial about it. And she was also able to do her job competently, too. Good for her! Now please stop trying to drop hints about Connor getting with the ambiguously-accented South African surgeon.

I think one thing the writers have managed to get right about Noah is that he's an annoying person and probably not a great doctor but he is a really good brother. I can see myself getting to like him if he matures and grows over the course of the season. Right now I don't like him that much, but I don't think the writers intend for us to like him either.

1 hour ago, Sandman said:

Also, has April really never heard the word "trayf"/"treif" before? She's never had a patient drop some Yiddish into a conversation? Is that more of a New York stereotype than a Chicago one? (How old am I??)

I had a Jewish roommate in college and went to a high school where the student population was about 40% Jewish. That was the one Yiddish word in the whole shpiel that I had never heard before.

[Sandman]

Hmm. Now I can't remember where I picked that one up. I'm a bit of a magpie when it comes to languages, though.

Then again, it's the first time I've heard "... but he hocks me a chaynik[?]," so maybe I should just stop showing off now.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Sandman
Everybody has to start somewhere.

[Netfoot]

3 hours ago, Sandman said:

Also, has April really never heard the word "trayf"/"treif" before?

I never have heard that word.  Not that I recall.

[sheetmoss]

6 hours ago, Sandman said:

Also, has April really never heard the word "trayf"/"treif" before? She's never had a patient drop some Yiddish into a conversation? Is that more of a New York stereotype than a Chicago one? (How old am I??)

 

Since the Jewish population for the entire Chicago metro area(9.5+ mil)  is around 300,000, probably no - even lower % for people that still speak/use Yiddish

 

BTW, I've never heard the word either

Edited December 13, 2017 by sheetmoss

[UNOSEZ]

3 seasons in and manstead is still super annoying.. They go back and forth being reckless and sticking their noses all the way up in ppl's business... Also is manning always going to be doctor to kids or pregnant ladies?... Can we switch up some of the pairings... It was nice to see noah be competent.. Glad hes growing as a doctor

[Quark]

Decent episode.

I must say, that South African woman is so irritating. Wouldn't mind at all if she left.

Mekia Cox is brilliant.

[starri]

On 12/13/2017 at 9:11 AM, BooksRule said:

I didn't really understand why Will spent a couple of hours trying to find a way to notify the wife about the husband.  Any time there is a possibility of an infectious disease being present, wouldn't one of the first things they are supposed to do is call the CDC?  Let them make the call about what to do next.  Or they should have at least notified Goodwin and let her decide to call them.  

Zika is a reportable illness, but it's not something that allows you to break confidentiality.  I was impressed that they finally got a medical ethics situation correct when they identified that they could break it if he was HIV+.

[athelyna]

How many different ways will this show almost kill Dr Charles when he tries to help a patient?

I can't stand Noah.  I get April wants to support her brother and that family is important to her, but he is such a spoiled brat.  Last week demanding she arrange a meal service for him, then this week complaining about her trying to help him.  Would siblings even be allowed to work together like that?  I don't know exactly how reporting and chain of command works in a hospital, but it certainly seems like within the treatment room the Doctor has authority over the nurse, and pretty much every job I've ever had doesn't allow family members to work in the same chain of command or be in a position where one family member has authority over another.  I thought that was part of why April and Choi were sneaking around.  I can understand in an actual emergency where they need anyone they can get, but an elderly gentleman coming in with a slight fever and rash doesn't seem so urgent they couldn't have assigned a doctor and nurse who weren't siblings.

I didn't understand why they didn't bring up calling the CDC earlier either.  I get they couldn't directly tell the wife that her husband was sick, but the CDC webpage on Zika is the first thing that pops up when I google Zika virus, and it says right at the top of the page for healthcare providers that it's nationally reportable and any suspected case should be reported.  The show acted like Will calling the CDC was some zany idea he came up with to get around HIPAA.

Would the ED really have sent a $16,000 bill to the widow within a couple hours of Santa dying?  Or maybe I'm just confused by the timeline and it was supposed to be like a week later.  The setup for that plotline seemed weird to me.  While I totally agree with Goodwin that the system is broken, they did provide treatments to Santa.  They kept saying how he died in the waiting area, but they did bring him into the ED and tried to get his heart restarted.  If they had gotten his heart going but then died again not in the waiting room would it have been okay for the hospital to bill him?  Or does Goodwin only think the hospital should charge when there's a positive outcome?  It's a sad unfortunate part of the USA's screwed up health system, but people do get bills for unsuccessful medical treatments after their loved ones have passed away so unless Goodwin is going to single-handedly switch the country over to a single payer system were patients and their families aren't directly billed there isn't a lot to be done about it.

[Netfoot]

34 minutes ago, athelyna said:

Would the ED really have sent a $16,000 bill to the widow within a couple hours of Santa dying?

Is it the speed with which they presented the bill you are querying?  Surely not the sum.

My uncle fell off a bicycle and smashed his brains to custard on the kerb.   The hospital still managed to perform $41,000 worth of tests on his corpse before declaring him dead.  And that was over thirty years ago!

[Texasmom1970]

Could really do without bitchy comment nurse! Isnt she the one who was grilling April about her realtionship with Dr. Choi?

[starri]

32 minutes ago, Texasmom1970 said:

Could really do without bitchy comment nurse! Isnt she the one who was grilling April about her realtionship with Dr. Choi?

That's our Doris.  I refer to her in my head as Resting Nurse Face, but that's a bit wordy.

[statsgirl]

Why isn't Charles telling Reese to find another specialty?  Even if she develops empathy at some point, she's always going to be the kind of psychiatrist that gives the profession a bad name. (Also why  is Charles thinking bipolar I instead of a psychotic episode?)

Why isn't April going to medical school instead of second guessing Noah and Ethan? She's so annoying, I'm surprised she doesn't get punched out.

Why can't the wife of the dead Santa sue the hospital?  He went to the hospital for treatment and they didn't treat him. Sounds like a good malpractice case to me.  It would also be a better reason for Sharon to give the board in order for them to forgive the $16,00 -- getting that sort of thing into the papers would be bad for the hospital's reputation.

Why has the writing for this show got so bad in the past two seasons?

On 12/13/2017 at 10:09 AM, Sandman said:

I call shenanigans over Mr. Kim's behaviour -- I can't quite believe that he would refuse to come clean with his wife about an affair, and risk having a microcephalic baby. Or maybe I just don't want to,.

Sadly, I can.  I've met men like that, for whom it's more important to keep from getting caught than to protect innocents.   They're all over the news these days.

On 12/13/2017 at 0:03 PM, Xantar said:

The entire time that Robin and Connor were standing in the hall, I was shouting at the TV, "Go into her office and see if you can hear it too!" But at least she was able to admit to him that she was hearing something and wasn't in denial about it. And she was also able to do her job competently, too. Good for her! Now please stop trying to drop hints about Connor getting with the ambiguously-accented South African surgeon.

Halstead and Manning are better now that they're no longer doing the will they/won't they thing but if there is any relationship on the show that I think of as sweet, it's Connor and Robin. Why doesn't the show just go with it and let us enjoy it?  They would be a reason for me to tune in every week.

Bekker remains a thoroughly unpleasant character.  I can't imagine why the show keeps pushing her on Connor much less on us.

3 hours ago, athelyna said:

I can't stand Noah.  I get April wants to support her brother and that family is important to her, but he is such a spoiled brat.  Last week demanding she arrange a meal service for him, then this week complaining about her trying to help him.

I share your opinion of Noah but people don't spoil themselves, other people do it.  All she had to do is say "I'll send you the webiste link, you can do it while you eat your burger."

The flip side of that is that April was telling him how to do his job and what tests to order.  It would do them both good to work in separate hospitals.  (My preference would be ones that are not on my screen.)

[CKTV123]

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Now please stop trying to drop hints about Connor getting with the ambiguously-accented South African surgeon.

YES!!! I can't help groaning when i see her on screen. What is her game? She's been rude, underhanded, confrontational, and highly unprofessional. Is it a good idea to try to knock your colleague off his game when he has a scalpel in his hand and both hands inside a patient? And being openly disrespectful about Robin in front of the OR staff. I want her gone.

[RedbirdNelly]

one moment I kind of liked was Choi and April kissing under the shamrock mistletoe. That was kind of cute. Not much else.

I couldn't believe once again we saw Manning almost violate the law.

[Sandman]

10 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Sadly, I can.  I've met men like that, for whom it's more important to keep from getting caught than to protect innocents.   They're all over the news these days.

Can't fault your reasoning here. Maybe I was just hoping for better where the man's own child is concerned? ::sigh::

I thought the shamrock mistletoe scene was contrived and cutesy, rather than appealing.

1 hour ago, CKTV123 said:

[Bekker]'s been rude, underhanded, confrontational, and highly unprofessional. Is it a good idea to try to knock your colleague off his game when he has a scalpel in his hand and both hands inside a patient? And being openly disrespectful about Robin in front of the OR staff. I want her gone.

She can't possibly imagine that Connor finds this nonsense intriguing, can she? I seriously hope the show doesn't expect us to think these two are meant for each other in some way. So far, it doesn't seem to me that Connor's at all interested, but stranger things have been considered a "meet cute."

[Ailianna]

On 12/14/2017 at 8:10 PM, athelyna said:

 Would the ED really have sent a $16,000 bill to the widow within a couple hours of Santa dying?  

That totally took me out of it.  I always get hospital bills weeks or months later, when I can barely figure out what the treatment I'm being billed for was.

On 12/15/2017 at 0:13 AM, statsgirl said:

Why can't the wife of the dead Santa sue the hospital?  He went to the hospital for treatment and they didn't treat him. Sounds like a good malpractice case to me.  It would also be a better reason for Sharon to give the board in order for them to forgive the $16,00 -- getting that sort of thing into the papers would be bad for the hospital's reputation.

There's no malpractice though.  They treated him as soon as his condition was brought to their attention, and they can't be blamed for his failure to call an ambulance to try to get faster attention.  And she did bring up the PR aspect, whcih is why, obviously, they needed the bill to get there immediately, so they had the whole "billing Santa for killing him at Christmas" theme.

[statsgirl]

I thought he was sitting in the waiting room when he collapsed which argues that he would have signed in and was waiting to be treated.

It's salient to me because when I was an undergraduate, I had a part-time job as a ward clerk in an ED.  I remember someone who was there for hours, sitting in the waiting room to be seen, with a heart attack.  When the doctors finally realized it, it was all hands on deck. 

On 12/15/2017 at 9:46 AM, RedbirdNelly said:

I couldn't believe once again we saw Manning almost violate the law.

I couldn't believe she didn't violate it this time.

[watcher1006]

Wondering a bit about the medical prognosis for the victim of a fall who had his colon forced into his chest cavity (yeah, that was grotesque). Besides putting things back where they belonged and patching him up, wouldn't they have had a massive infection problem? I just wonder how easily that is dealt with.

[Lyanna19]

Poor Dr. Charles, can't help but feel sorry for the guy, he's just trying to get help for his patients and they keep trying to kill him, still I like his approach better than Dr Reese.

As for Becker, she certainly is very unprofessional, and a real Bitch too, she needs to be taken down a peg or two. 

I'm not sure tho if the rat problem is completely solved, she heard them at home in their own apartment, and Connor didn't hear anything.

[Sandman]

11 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I couldn't believe she didn't violate it this time.

I guess that counts as baby steps?

I find Dr. Charles genuinely compassionate, but he's surrounded by colleagues who are only marginally more functional than his patients, it would seem. I'm surprised he hasn't burned out long before this. Dr. Reese I don't want to censure, either: I think her recent behaviour seems unlike her for a reason. It may not be full-on PTSD, but Sarah is clearly struggling -- she's angry and judgmental, and clearly acting out of fear.

Dr. Manning has nothing like her excuse.

Dr. Bekker will probably to try to manipulate the wrong colleague or superior one day, and she'll watch her career go down in flames. And I will cheer.

[Chick2Chic]

On 12/15/2017 at 0:13 AM, statsgirl said:

The entire time that Robin and Connor were standing in the hall, I was shouting at the TV, "Go into her office and see if you can hear it too!" But at least she was able to admit to him that she was hearing something and wasn't in denial about it. And she was also able to do her job competently, too. Good for her! Now please stop trying to drop hints about Connor getting with the ambiguously-accented South African surgeon.

I will be so salty if that happens. I like Connor &  Robin a lot but aside from that, Becker just really grates on my nerves. Why is she still on the show? I get having a foil / antagonist but she is such an unpleasant character. I don't love to hate her, I just want her off my screen. 

I feel like even though the writing may be trying to go there, CD isn't playing it that Connor is remotely interested in being around Bekker, not even in a potential hate sex sort of way. I hope he keeps playing it that way.

Entertaining ep even if everything was tied up by the end of it too neatly. 

On 12/15/2017 at 9:46 AM, RedbirdNelly said:

one moment I kind of liked was Choi and April kissing under the shamrock mistletoe. That was kind of cute. Not much else.

 

I do like them together as well. I actually like all the current main ships on the show, which is a rarity for me. I am sure the show will mess with that soon, though. Le sigh. 

[SnarkySheep]

On 12/14/2017 at 5:04 PM, Quark said:

I must say, that South African woman is so irritating. Wouldn't mind at all if she left.

Ditto. I also have the hardest time understanding her speech - made all the worse by the fact that she's speaking from behind a surgical mask half the time.

Quote

Also is manning always going to be doctor to kids or pregnant ladies?..

She's a pediatrician, so yeah.

Quote

Poor Dr. Charles, can't help but feel sorry for the guy, he's just trying to get help for his patients and they keep trying to kill him,

I don't claim to have any real knowledge of psychiatric treatments, but my first thought was would they really have left that guy unrestrained in a regular ED room? With him ranting about demons being everywhere, it was all but a given that he'd leap at someone and try to hurt them. What if it was another patient instead of Dr Charles? That would be one huge lawsuit.

As for the relationships - I actually like Will and Natalie a lot better than Ethan and April. Will and Natalie actually get along and seem to have things in common, things to talk about, etc. while Ethan and April are either making out or else snarling at each other. Not good.

[starri]

20 hours ago, watcher1006 said:

Wondering a bit about the medical prognosis for the victim of a fall who had his colon forced into his chest cavity (yeah, that was grotesque).

They made mention of Becker having to spend a half hour washing out his chest cavity to clean out any...ahem...leavings.  That's not going to prevent every infection, but I'm sure he got a few days of antibiotics just to be safe.

Granted, it is a very serious thing to have happen, but the patient was, IIRC, young and healthy.  That's a lot different than if it had happened to an older person.

[SnarkySheep]

On 12/18/2017 at 8:49 PM, starri said:

Granted, it is a very serious thing to have happen, but the patient was, IIRC, young and healthy.  That's a lot different than if it had happened to an older person.

What do you want to bet that guy opts for those hologram Christmas lights next year that he can set up on the ground?

 

Quote

So far, it doesn't seem to me that Connor's at all interested, but stranger things have been considered a "meet cute."

It's been a long time since Connor had a non-Robin storyline. Remember his dad and sister, both of whom he has difficult relationships with? What about the story that was hinted at, that his mom's suicide may have had more to it? What about his relationship with Dr. Latham and how he was helping him understand social norms? There's a lot they can pick up on with this character, and I really hope they do, rather than embark on the Bekker trek.