The True Story of Franklin's Expedition

[Meredith Quill]

Discuss Here!

[CinematicGuy]

I have followed the archaeology closely since the discovery of Erebus and Terror.

I won’t restate what is easily googled, but summarize a few key points I have taken from the non fiction I have come across.

Lead poisoning is famously attributed as the lead (no pun intended) cause of the expedition’s failure. This conclusion is based on outdated forensics which could not distinguish gradual lead exposure from rapid lead exposure. The small sample of human remains tested showed high levels of lead, but this could be expected of anyone living in Victorian England. Also, not all of the remains showed the same extent of exposure. I think lead is a possible source of illness, and a contributing factor in such a harsh environment as the arctic, but not the sole cause of failure. Likely starvation, as evidenced by signs of survival cannibalism in some remains, was just as significant if not more so.

The ships which have been discovered now indicate that Terror was found much farther south of the ice pack than the last recorded position indicated. This suggests that some survivors may have managed to break free of the ice and attempted to navigate the ship further south. This is only the early stages of the investigation, and other explanations may arise. 

A DNA database with profiles of 19 crewman has been created. Some females evidently masqueraded as crewmen based on DNA recovered from exposed remains over the years. Many of the remains were found in 1945, on King William Island. Three mummified bodies were found on Beechey Island and are the most famous forensic subjects related to this topic. They died before the expedition was trapped in ice. 

The expedition encamped at Beechey in 1845, and became trapped in ice in 1846. A detailed dispatch preserved in a rock cairn and located by a subsequent rescue expedition indicates that Sir John Franklin died in June of 1847. 105 survivors abandoned the vessels in 1848, seeking access to the Back River to make their way to mainland Canada and trade outposts along the frontier.  

The Inuit knew of these ships and probably visited these locations to salvage materials. So well known were their locations by the Inuit, that the modern search vessels credit them for aiding in their discovery of the sunken vessels. 

Edited March 29, 2018 by CinematicGuy

[SoSueMe]

I wonder if females posing as males was a typical practice in those days? An alternative to prostitution for desperate women? Or maybe deliberate prostitution kept discreet?

[CinematicGuy]

1 hour ago, SoSueMe said:

I wonder if females posing as males was a typical practice in those days? An alternative to prostitution for desperate women? Or maybe deliberate prostitution kept discreet?

To me, it is not all that surprising. There were hundreds, perhaps even thousands, of women that enlisted in the army during the American Civil War (by some scholars’ estimates). Just like today, they wanted to serve and be a part of something. Perhaps out of some measure of desperation, which is probably true of many of the male seamen, too. Of course they were not allowed to, so they had to conceal their true identities. 

[Jordan61]

It's been a while since I read the book, but I don't remember Fitzjames being such a jerk. I was surprised that Lady Silence wasn't very silent. She obviously still has her tongue, although her father didn't. Crozier being able to speak her language was new too.

Thanks for all that info, CinematicGuy. Very interesting. 

Edited March 31, 2018 by Jordan61

[proserpina65]

On ‎03‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 2:08 PM, SoSueMe said:

I wonder if females posing as males was a typical practice in those days? An alternative to prostitution for desperate women? Or maybe deliberate prostitution kept discreet?

There are quite a few documented cases of women serving in disguise in the Royal Navy during the French Revolutionary/Napoleonic Wars, for a variety of reasons including the ones you mention.  So it's not surprising to me that a few were amongst the Franklin expedition.

On ‎03‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 6:14 PM, CinematicGuy said:

Lead poisoning is famously attributed as the lead (no pun intended) cause of the expedition’s failure. This conclusion is based on outdated forensics which could not distinguish gradual lead exposure from rapid lead exposure. The small sample of human remains tested showed high levels of lead, but this could be expected of anyone living in Victorian England. Also, not all of the remains showed the same extent of exposure. I think lead is a possible source of illness, and a contributing factor in such a harsh environment as the arctic, but not the sole cause of failure. Likely starvation, as evidenced by signs of survival cannibalism in some remains, was just as significant if not more so.

A book I read about the expedition posited that improperly canned food was a major factor in both the starvation aspect, as those rations turned out to be inedible, and also in the possibility that some of the men were suffering from botulism.  I haven't kept up with the most recent research, so I don't know if that possibility has been explored.

[CinematicGuy]

22 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

There are quite a few documented cases of women serving in disguise in the Royal Navy during the French Revolutionary/Napoleonic Wars, for a variety of reasons including the ones you mention.  So it's not surprising to me that a few were amongst the Franklin expedition.

A book I read about the expedition posited that improperly canned food was a major factor in both the starvation aspect, as those rations turned out to be inedible, and also in the possibility that some of the men were suffering from botulism.  I haven't kept up with the most recent research, so I don't know if that possibility has been explored.

 

I’d be curious to read more about this, too. I  think you’re right, though - why else resort to cannibalism before the stockpile of provisions had been utilized? There are only two things that occur to me: the tins did not preserve the food as expected and were useless, and/or they were simply too much dead weight when it came time for the crew to seek rescue by marching overland to Back River. 

The can theory was studied by Owen Beattie in the early 80’s, when the lead poisoning theory first emerged. Beattie found trash pits with the cans, and signs that these provisions were not properly sealed. More recently scholars have blamed the lead lined drinking water system, which may have more severely contaminated the crew’s diet. 

I think its quite likely that lead poisoning and botulism probably did adversely impact the expedition, but its become a little overblown as the only explanation. Some recent scholarship has pushed back against it, but it will remain a debate for years to come. Maybe the ships galleys will provide further evidence.

Edited April 2, 2018 by CinematicGuy

[SimoneS]

I have been reading articles online about Franklin's expedition. One thing I don't understand, why didn't they turn to the Inuits for help? The Inuits seemed to be not far away since they saw the British. The Inuits could have at least taught them how to survive so they could live long enough to be rescued.

[MaggieG]

On 4/2/2018 at 11:27 AM, proserpina65 said:

There are quite a few documented cases of women serving in disguise in the Royal Navy during the French Revolutionary/Napoleonic Wars, for a variety of reasons including the ones you mention.  So it's not surprising to me that a few were amongst the Franklin expedition.

Wow, I find this incredibly interesting.  I wonder how long they could have kept it a secret. 

ETA: I just googled this and came up with a few stories about women disguised as men during the Civil War. Very interesting stuff, I'm going to look up more about it. 

Edited April 4, 2018 by MaggieG

[proserpina65]

23 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

Wow, I find this incredibly interesting.  I wonder how long they could have kept it a secret. 

ETA: I just googled this and came up with a few stories about women disguised as men during the Civil War. Very interesting stuff, I'm going to look up more about it. 

It helped that people didn't generally fully undress to wash in the Napoleonic Era (or to have sex for that matter).  By the time of the Franklin Expedition, this was less the case, though.

Something I read yesterday did say that there's still some question about the remains they thought might be female owing to degraded dna.  But the possibility is interesting.

[slothgirl]

On 4/3/2018 at 6:49 AM, SimoneS said:

I have been reading articles online about Franklin's expedition. One thing I don't understand, why didn't they turn to the Inuits for help? The Inuits seemed to be not far away since they saw the British. The Inuits could have at least taught them how to survive so they could live long enough to be rescued.

Hubris? Racism? Arrogance?

They probably didn't have enough respect for the natives to consider that they might be useful. And maybe combined with not realizing how geographically close the Inuits were? I can imagine that if the Inuit didn't want to be seen, they wouldn't have been seen. Those ice igloos probably blend right into the landscape. Food wasn't exactly plentiful... I could understand the Inuit not wanting dozens of Brits knowing where they were and expecting to have help with survival (or possibly taking all they had)

The concept of having to over-winter stuck in the ice wasn't all that radical and they thought they had enough food. It was only once the ice didn't thaw in the spring and they faced the possibility of over-wintering a 2nd time that things probably got really dicey. 

[renatae]

On 4/2/2018 at 10:27 AM, proserpina65 said:

A book I read about the expedition posited that improperly canned food was a major factor in both the starvation aspect, as those rations turned out to be inedible, and also in the possibility that some of the men were suffering from botulism.  I haven't kept up with the most recent research, so I don't know if that possibility has been explored.

Mr. Renatae read somewhere that the cans had been soldered with lead, and that resulted in the deaths, in a more gradual manner, I suppose. I think the com5bination of  lead poisoning and botulism seems to fit, especially as Sir John was claiming to have had enough provisions for 5 years, and elsewhere in the program, the argument with the cook about so much of the food being spoiled and inedible.

[Captanne]

Since I can hear or understand much of the dialogue (CC isn't working), I am noticing other things -- one of which is the rosy cheeks seems to be increasing. Now, that can be an over abundance of rouge used by the makeup people to show "cold" but I think they are trying to indicate some sort of flushing of the faces that isn't quite healthy.  It's not even very subtle.  

As for the lead -- although I'm a fan of Occam's Razor (KISS), I think it's too simple to simply say lead poisoning without some corroboration from the archeological record.  In the long run, for a work of narrative fiction based on truth -- does it really matter?  We don't have an answer yet in real life and Simmons is free to blame the madness and vague threats on whatever he wants, really.

[CinematicGuy]

18 hours ago, MaggieG said:

Wow, I find this incredibly interesting.  I wonder how long they could have kept it a secret. 

ETA: I just googled this and came up with a few stories about women disguised as men during the Civil War. Very interesting stuff, I'm going to look up more about it. 

 

If youre interested in the civil war context of female service, the civil war trust has an article about this subject. They say a conservative estimate of 400 to 750 women calendestinely served in combat during the war. 

With regards to the franklin expedition, I was checking about the DNA tests and they say they have possibly 4 female profiles. They also know these are not inuit remains and are northern european.

Edited April 5, 2018 by CinematicGuy

[iMonrey]

So I gather the actual Terror was discovered two years ago; my question is whether it was discovered submerged or above water? I'm guessing the former since it was found in good condition.

[CinematicGuy]

It was found submerged below water. The freezing conditions preserved the ships extremely well, however. 

[Dowel Jones]

On 4/2/2018 at 8:27 AM, proserpina65 said:

There are quite a few documented cases of women serving in disguise in the Royal Navy during the French Revolutionary/Napoleonic Wars, for a variety of reasons including the ones you mention

As any Deadhead will exclaim, the Grateful Dead popularized a song called Jack-a-Roe, which dealt with this subject.  According to Wikipedia, some versions of the song date back to 1830-ish, which kind of implies that the practice was well known enough for someone to come up with a song.

[Jordan61]

It's frustrating watching this show from a book reader perspective. Lots of people are upset about the flogging, but in the book

Spoiler

Hickey is such an evil person, literally soulless. I wasn't a bit sorry at his punishment, knowing horrific things he has planned, the worst being what he does to poor Mr. Goodsir.

[Earlwoode]

Quote

It's frustrating watching this show from a book reader perspective. Lots of people are upset about the flogging, but in the book

Ok, I read your hidden comment but probably most of us haven’t read the book and the character, so far, hasn’t come across like that.  I feel rather sympathetic towards him - it can’t have been easy being gay (and Irish) in the British Royal Navy at such a time.  Maybe they are portraying him in a more sympathetic manner in the series?  I certainly thought the flogging was brutal and unwarranted (though they did a terrible job of telling us the three men had left their posts and gone after Lady Silence).  I had to read that in this Forum to garner that piece of information.

[AZChristian]

We watched the Nova show last night on DVD wherein they discovered the wreck of the Erebus, along with some graves and a cairn with notes from the captain.  When Franklin died, the show narrator said they didn't know the cause of Franklin's death.

But WE know . . . he was killed by a mysterious monster!!!!

[Jordan61]

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 3:47 PM, Earlwoode said:

Ok, I read your hidden comment but probably most of us haven’t read the book and the character, so far, hasn’t come across like that.  I feel rather sympathetic towards him - it can’t have been easy being gay (and Irish) in the British Royal Navy at such a time.  Maybe they are portraying him in a more sympathetic manner in the series?  I certainly thought the flogging was brutal and unwarranted (though they did a terrible job of telling us the three men had left their posts and gone after Lady Silence).  I had to read that in this Forum to garner that piece of information.

He is definitely a much more sympathetic character in the series.

Spoiler

In the book he doesn't seem to actually be gay; the only shipmate he has sex with is a simple-minded burly guy, and uses the relationship as blackmail so he can use him as brute force against other sailors.

[Earlwoode]

(Sorry, I don’t know how to quote your hidden content and keep it hidden, lol).  So maybe him being more sympathetic in the series is what’s confusing.  Also, he seems to be one of the only crew member  that stands out and is easily identifiable.  What with the heavy clothing they wear, the darkness and the swift, flashing scenes it’s really difficult for anyone except the officers to stand out.  I, for one, have no idea who the crewmembers who died were let alone their names.

Edited April 14, 2018 by Earlwoode

[millennium]

I've always thought Dan Simmons was a so-so author.   Books like Carrion Comfort worked Stephen King's side of the street -- lengthy, multiple characters, multiple plots, kids as protagonists -- but they weren't anything to get very excited about.   I enjoyed Song of Kali because although it had supernatural overtones the grim ending was very brutal and squarely centered in the real world.

I wanted to like The Terror because I love all things 19th-century.   The book started out okay and as I slogged through I hoped for an ending that would pay off the story ...

 

...but then it all went to shit and turned into Carlos Castaneda in the Arctic Circle.

I'm watching the series but I don't know why, because the Tuunbaq is one of the lamest monsters I've encountered in horror fiction.   I can't imagine how they'll interpret the sequence of final events for a television audience but I suspect that after watching all those episodes, a lot of people are going to be pissed off.

After The Terror, I made it a point to never read anything by Dan Simmons again.

Edited April 15, 2018 by millennium

[Captanne]

Don’t bother with Hyperion then...it’s interminable. I enjoyed The Terror, though.  I found it very exciting. 

[LittleIggy]

On 4/4/2018 at 4:15 PM, slothgirl said:

Hubris? Racism? Arrogance?

They probably didn't have enough respect for the natives to consider that they might be useful. And maybe combined with not realizing how geographically close the Inuits were? I can imagine that if the Inuit didn't want to be seen, they wouldn't have been seen. Those ice igloos probably blend right into the landscape. Food wasn't exactly plentiful... I could understand the Inuit not wanting dozens of Brits knowing where they were and expecting to have help with survival (or possibly taking all they had)

The concept of having to over-winter stuck in the ice wasn't all that radical and they thought they had enough food. It was only once the ice didn't thaw in the spring and they faced the possibility of over-wintering a 2nd time that things probably got really dicey. 

I’ve read lots of books about 19th century arctic expeditions, including the Franklin Expedition, and over-wintering was common and planned for. I remember one where they brought props for theatrical productions they would put on while frozen in.

[proserpina65]

Quote

As for the lead in the food -- I just looked up bismuth and it's a heavy metal like lead.  So Goodsir is on the right track.  (In the book, Simmons wrote as part of the narrative that they had a hard time coming up with the funding for the trip so they cut corners on the provisions to save money.  That's why the tinned reserves were tainted.  I don't know whether that's true or something Simmons added.  It sounds reasonable, though, doesn't it.)

I carried this over from the episode 4 thread - the book I read about the expedition, Ice Blink by Scott Cookman, talked about this very issue.  His research showed that they did save money by buying the canned provisions from a company which cut corners all over the place, leading to poor product which was not only  nigh inedible and contaminated with lead from improperly soldered cans, but possibly also with the botulinum toxin.

On ‎04‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 6:15 PM, LittleIggy said:

I’ve read lots of books about 19th century arctic expeditions, including the Franklin Expedition, and over-wintering was common and planned for. I remember one where they brought props for theatrical productions they would put on while frozen in.

Yes, but the ice ended up being much thicker than Franklin expected and the expedition had to over-winter more than one year.  With the badly canned provisions running out, they weren't really as prepared as they needed to be for such a long expedition.

[Captanne]

Cool.  I'm going to get that book.  Thanks!

[Tabasco Cat]

On 4/13/2018 at 7:27 PM, Jordan61 said:

He is definitely a much more sympathetic character in the series.

I didn't find him sympathetic at all. From the first I thought he was a sniveling d-bag with a bad attitude and likely to become a troublemaker. There was only one episode where I thought he was doing the right thing during a crisis but that was short-lived. Zero sympathy from me, especially considering his actions in the last couple of episodes. I haven't read the book yet but I probably will at some point this year.

[Jordan61]

On 4/14/2018 at 7:22 PM, millennium said:

I've always thought Dan Simmons was a so-so author.   Books like Carrion Comfort worked Stephen King's side of the street -- lengthy, multiple characters, multiple plots, kids as protagonists -- but they weren't anything to get very excited about.   I enjoyed Song of Kali because although it had supernatural overtones the grim ending was very brutal and squarely centered in the real world.

I wanted to like The Terror because I love all things 19th-century.   The book started out okay and as I slogged through I hoped for an ending that would pay off the story ...

  Reveal hidden contents

...but then it all went to shit and turned into Carlos Castaneda in the Arctic Circle.

I'm watching the series but I don't know why, because the Tuunbaq is one of the lamest monsters I've encountered in horror fiction.   I can't imagine how they'll interpret the sequence of final events for a television audience but I suspect that after watching all those episodes, a lot of people are going to be pissed off.

After The Terror, I made it a point to never read anything by Dan Simmons again.

I pretty much agree with everything you said. The book was okay and the ending was awful. I tried to read Drood and hated it, couldn't finish it. I read Carrion Comfort a long time ago and remembered liking it, but that was back when I liked Stephen King too.

[Captanne]

Chiming in on the novels of Simmons.  I read Stephen R. Donaldson's "The Gap" series which blew my socks off.  (It's based on Wagner's Ring Cycle.)  No one has ever read these books -- which is a shame.  Because his Thomas Covenant series, for which he is more famous, is only mediocre.

After I finished The Gap series, I went looking for something as good.  (Give up.  There is NOTHING as good as The Gap series.)  A bookstore clerk recommended Simmons' Hyperion series.  So I read the whole thing.

Meh.  I never picked up another Simmons book until The Terror which was on a "most frightening" list for Hallowe'en.  I really enjoyed The Terror.  It was different from Hyperion so I didn't turn my nose up immediately and ended up being very pleased.

[SimoneS]

I have been reading a lot about the British exploration of the Arctic since I started watching The Terror. Dr. John Rae is the courageous adventurer who trekked hundreds of miles across the Arctic several times and made a major contribution to the marking the NorthWest Passage, not Franklin whose hubris and bad judgement led to the death of all is men. Unlike Franklin, Rae respected the Inuits' knowledge and practices and used them to succeed in his explorations and survive. He traded with the Inuit for the several items from Franklin's ships and found pieces of wood from one of the ships. He also spoke to the Inuit told him that about 40 of Franklin's men had starved to death and there was evidence of cannibalism. When Rae reported these findings to the British navy, he was given a reward, but when his report was leaked to the press, Franklin's wife and Charles Dickens launched a campaign to smear him. Dickens claimed that Rae was wrong to believe a "race of savages" and that the Inuit likely killed Franklin and his men. Consequently, Rae was shunned and his accomplishments never recognized. It was only in 2014 that a plaque was finally put in Westminster Abbey recognizing his accomplishments. 

Edited May 1, 2018 by SimoneS

[Captanne]

I just received Ice Blink and can't put it down.  It's very readable.  It's also very gratifying to see images (plates) of the original documents and recovered artifacts.  If you are in the market for a nonfiction account of the mission, I recommend the book.  I believe there is a bibliography in the back but I didn't look.  The author referred to it but I didn't have time to check -- I was too busy reading and then had to get home.  (I do a Monday night crisis hotline and began reading it while I was there last night.)

[Jordan61]

Book readers:

Spoiler

Are they completely doing away with the telepathy angle? Because it looks like they are making Goodsir and Lady Silence a couple rather than Crozier and Lady Silence. And a big part of that coupling was that Crozier had the same telepathic ability or whatever that the Inuit group (including Lady Silence and her father) that communicated with the Tuunbaq had.

[true north]

On 5/6/2018 at 6:34 PM, Jordan61 said:

Book readers:

  Hide contents

Are they completely doing away with the telepathy angle? Because it looks like they are making Goodsir and Lady Silence a couple rather than Crozier and Lady Silence. And a big part of that coupling was that Crozier had the same telepathic ability or whatever that the Inuit group (including Lady Silence and her father) that communicated with the Tuunbaq had.

They are, yes. Which is fine by me, since it would be quite hard to show on screen anyway, and also the showrunners said that they didn't want Lady Silence to end up as someone's girlfriend/wife. Even her and Goodsir relationship seems more like a sibling bond, at least from her side. 

[Jordan61]

9 hours ago, true north said:

They are, yes. Which is fine by me, since it would be quite hard to show on screen anyway, and also the showrunners said that they didn't want Lady Silence to end up as someone's girlfriend/wife. 

Thanks, I hadn't seen any of that. 

[jnymph]

Anybody know why only 1 of the men whose bodies were exhumed on the Franklin expedition was portrayed on the show ?

As far as I can tell, only Hartnell was portrayed. 

I looked thru the entire cast listing on IMDB

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt2708480/fullcredits/cast?ref_=m_ttfc_3

GRAPHIC CONTENT WARNING !  this link below shows the pics of the exhumed bodies.   I personally was more saddened by them rather than shocked or grossed out.

https://wyrdwordsandeffigies.wordpress.com/2013/05/13/the-perfectly-preserved-seamen-of-the-franklin-expedition/

Edited May 10, 2018 by jnymph

[slothgirl]

1 hour ago, jnymph said:

Anybody know why only 1 of the men whose bodies were exhumed on the Franklin expedition was portrayed on the show ?

As far as I can tell, only Hartnell was portrayed. 

I looked thru the entire cast listing on IMDB

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt2708480/fullcredits/cast?ref_=m_ttfc_3

GRAPHIC CONTENT WARNING !  this link below shows the pics of the exhumed bodies.   I personally was more saddened by them rather than shocked or grossed out.

https://wyrdwordsandeffigies.wordpress.com/2013/05/13/the-perfectly-preserved-seamen-of-the-franklin-expedition/

 

I thought the only men whose bodies were ever recovered were found on Beechey Island which all happens before the start of this story. So the real question isn't why the others weren't portrayed on this show, but why Hartnell WAS.

Edited May 10, 2018 by slothgirl

[jnymph]

18 minutes ago, slothgirl said:

I thought the only men whose bodies were ever recovered were found on Beechey Island which all happens before the start of this story. So the real question isn't why the others weren't portrayed on this show, but why Hartnell WAS.

Well sheesh, that makes it even MORE WTF !?  

[Shopkeeper]

20 minutes ago, slothgirl said:

I thought the only men whose bodies were ever recovered were found on Beechey Island which all happens before the start of this story. So the real question isn't why the others weren't portrayed on this show, but why Hartnell WAS.

They were brothers - John and Thomas Hartnell both joined the expedition. John died on Beechey Island, Thomas died at some later point in the expedition.

[slothgirl]

On 5/10/2018 at 2:27 PM, Shopkeeper said:

They were brothers - John and Thomas Hartnell both joined the expedition. John died on Beechey Island, Thomas died at some later point in the expedition.

Thanks for clearing that up. 

The show does make reference to the men who died on Beechey, but I don't recall them using names in those conversations, and I never paid any attention to who they might have been

Edited May 15, 2018 by slothgirl

[slothgirl]

Intersting article in Smithsonian about a dentist with his own hypothesis (based on historical descriptions given by Inuit about the condition of the men) about what the crew may have died from:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/dentist-weighs-in-what-really-doomed-the-franklin-expedition-180964594/https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/dentist-weighs-in-what-really-doomed-the-franklin-expedition-180964594/

[Captanne]

Fascinating.  I'm a believer in Occam's Razor -- the most obvious answer is probably the right one.  I believe (in light of and even without the evidence) that they died of scurvy primarily, any diseases they brought with them (TB, perhaps), and exhaustion/starvation.  All of this was aggravated by whatever the canned victuals did to them (lead leaching or botulism spores).  Cookman in Ice Blink thoroughly explains why the victualler was a menace -- so there certainly was something wrong with the food.  The problem in the case of the Discovery Service was that you ate the food you brought and there was no alternative.  If it was contaminated, so were you.  (Unless you could find food locally.)

 

If I go too far off the reservation about what might have killed them, I might as well believe in the Tuunbaq while I'm at it.

[slothgirl]

I don't understand where they were getting water once they left the ice flow and were traversing King William Island. Why aren't they dying of dehydration which kills faster than any of these other issues? What am I missing? Do they have big vats of freshwater in those sledges along with tables, and fine china?

[proserpina65]

35 minutes ago, Captanne said:

If I go too far off the reservation about what might have killed them, I might as well believe in the Tuunbaq while I'm at it.

If it looks like a polar bear, walks like a polar bear, and talks like a polar bear, it's probably a giant supernatural spirit monster. ;-)

[raven]

This is a particularly haunting story I read about the men from the expedition. 

http://ca.pressfrom.com/news/weekendreads/-251-they-re-not-human-how-19th-century-inuit-coped-with-a-real-life-invasion-of-the-walking-dead/

The original article was in Canada's National Post but I couldn't get the "remove your adblock" message to go away, even after I removed my adblock.

Cannibalism can have devastating psychological consequences (one of the survivors from the Essex ended up hoarding food the rest of his life).    Here's a blurb from the linked article:

 

Quote

By 1850, coves and beaches around King William Island were littered with the disturbing remnants of their advance: Scraps of clothing and camps still littered with their dead occupants. Decades later, researchers would confirm the Inuit accounts of cannibalism when they found bleached human bones with their flesh hacked clean.

The figures’ skin was cold but it was not “cold as a fish,” concluded the man. Therefore, he reasoned, they were probably alive.

“They were beings but not Inuit,” he said, according to the account by shaman Nicholas Qayutinuaq.

The figures were too weak to be dangerous, so Inuit women tried to comfort the strangers by inviting them into their igloo.

But close contact only increased their alienness: The men were timid, untalkative and — despite their obvious starvation — they refused to eat.

The men spit out pieces of cooked seal offered to them. They rejected offers of soup. They grabbed jealous hold of their belongings when the Inuit offered to trade.

When the Inuit men returned to the camp from their hunt, they constructed an igloo for the strangers, built them a fire and even outfitted the shelter with three whole seals.

Then, after the white men had gone to sleep, the Inuit quickly packed up their belongings and fled by moonlight.

The Inuit had left in such a hurry that they had abandoned several belongings. When a small party went back to the camp to retrieve them, they found an igloo filled with corpses.

The seals were untouched. Instead, the men had eaten each other.

 

[SimoneS]

On 5/15/2018 at 2:04 PM, slothgirl said:

I don't understand where they were getting water once they left the ice flow and were traversing King William Island. Why aren't they dying of dehydration which kills faster than any of these other issues? What am I missing? Do they have big vats of freshwater in those sledges along with tables, and fine china?

They must have been able to melt the ice with fire somehow.

 

16 hours ago, raven said:

The original article was in Canada's National Post

The poor Inuit. Dying from influenza brought by the British and then starving to death, while disgusting Dickens accuses them of murder and calls them "a race of savages."

Edited May 24, 2018 by SimoneS

[Captanne]

Just posted this over in the Rewatch thread:  Just finished the biography of Crozier by Smith.  He was an amazing but very moody man.  Prone to depression.  His friendship with young Ross spanned decades but was forged in a 4 year trip on Erebus and Terror to the Antarctic.  While those two were rambling around the southern seas, they met up with Franklin as governor of Tasmania.  They had a wonderful time.  (It's where he fell in love with Franklin's niece, Sophy.  She, by the way, was a flirt but not with Crozier.  She rebuffed him.  Also, for what it's worth, she died having never married or even left Lady Franklin's side.)  When Crozier went out to find the Northwest Passage with Franklin, though, his opinion of him plummeted.  All of this is in his letters home. He criticizes his leadership qualities, calls his ship a mess, and complains that he can't keep order and discipline -- that Franklin was better suited to being in the diplomatic service than the Discovery Service.  

[jnymph]

16 hours ago, raven said:

This is a particularly haunting story I read about the men from the expedition. 

http://ca.pressfrom.com/news/weekendreads/-251-they-re-not-human-how-19th-century-inuit-coped-with-a-real-life-invasion-of-the-walking-dead/

The original article was in Canada's National Post but I couldn't get the "remove your adblock" message to go away, even after I removed my adblock.

Cannibalism can have devastating psychological consequences (one of the survivors from the Essex ended up hoarding food the rest of his life).    Here's a blurb from the linked article:

 

Now THAT is truly haunting and disturbing.  *shudder*!

 

eta: sorry do not how to quote your quote, but you get my drift. ; )

Edited May 24, 2018 by jnymph

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, Captanne said:

Just posted this over in the Rewatch thread:  Just finished the biography of Crozier by Smith.  He was an amazing but very moody man.  Prone to depression.  His friendship with young Ross spanned decades but was forged in a 4 year trip on Erebus and Terror to the Antarctic.  While those two were rambling around the southern seas, they met up with Franklin as governor of Tasmania.  They had a wonderful time.  (It's where he fell in love with Franklin's niece, Sophy.  She, by the way, was a flirt but not with Crozier.  She rebuffed him.  Also, for what it's worth, she died having never married or even left Lady Franklin's side.)  When Crozier went out to find the Northwest Passage with Franklin, though, his opinion of him plummeted.  All of this is in his letters home. He criticizes his leadership qualities, calls his ship a mess, and complains that he can't keep order and discipline -- that Franklin was better suited to being in the diplomatic service than the Discovery Service.  

Crozier was such an interesting man. As you know, he joined the Royal Navy at the age 13 and reportedly met the Bounty mutineers which I think made the show's portrayal about Crozier's concern about a potential mutiny realistic. He was the most experienced explorer in the whole expedition which made me wonder if he died soon after leaving the note in the cairn. It would explain why all the men were lost, but then I read that the winters in those years were so harsh that even the Inuit moved south to survive and find food. So there was little chance of them encountering the Inuit (or even animals to hunt) until they were on the brink of death.

Edited May 24, 2018 by SimoneS

[true north]

5 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Crozier was such an interesting man. As you know, he joined the Royal Navy at the age 13 and reportedly met the Bounty mutineers which I think made the show's portrayal about Crozier's concern about a potential mutiny realistic. He was the most experienced explorer in the whole expedition which made me wonder if he died soon after leaving the note in the cairn. It would explain why all the men were lost, but then I read that the winters in those years were so harsh that even the Inuit moved south to survive and find food. So there was little chance of them encountering the Inuit (or even animals to hunt) until they were on the brink of death.

As far as I know, there have been some accounts of him surviving for a few more years, but we'll probably never know for sure. It would make sense though: he spent some time in the Arctic with Inuit people before and probably picked up a few useful skills along the way. But no matter how experienced an explorer someone is, there isn't much to do when the men are dying of a combination of exposure, starvation, scurvy and possible lead poisoning.