S03.E08: Crisis On Earth-X (4)

[Mellowyellow]

I saw Felicity jumping in as her wanting to seize the moment to marry Oliver and to have a joint wedding with her friends who have been very supportive of her and Oliver. I honestly took it as her wanting them to marry at the same time and that it would be a cute thing.

Clearly Iris and Barry thought this was adorable as well. I get why some people have issues with it. There are people who need the spotlight to be on them and would stab you if you wore the same outfit as them let alone share a wedding but I think WestAllen are very lovely and were cheering their friends on. And I think Felicity knows that she has nice friends who would be up for a double wedding in this instance.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

1 hour ago, phoenics said:

 plus it shoved Barry and Iris into supporting cast for their own show

Technically it didn't happen on their own show.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Noneofyourbusiness

[Trini]

3 minutes ago, SevenStars said:

Anyway, I'm just glad it's over with this year and next year, depending on the spoilers, I might skip it like I did previous years cause clearly as a non Arrow fan, I won't miss much.

Next year will be the WestAllen Anniversary and The Flash's 100th episode; so it might be worth it. I hope so.

[lemotomato]

14 minutes ago, phoenics said:

It was less about stealing the spotlight and more about killing the moment and not letting Iris and Barry have that moment to themselves.  FeFe could have waited 2 minutes.  I felt this also cheapened Olicity too - they didn't even really say vows.  I think Oliver did, but Felicity didn't.  It was rushed and unfortunate.

Except the episode needed to fit within 42 minutes, and they didn't have an extra 2 minutes for Felicity to wait.

[phoenics]

4 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Technically it didn't happen on their own show.

It happened on The Flash's episode - Barry/Iris were reduced to the support crew for Olicity - on The Flash episode.  Every convo Iris/Barry had througout ALL crossover episodes had them in that support role  - that Olicity never reciprocated.

3 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Except the episode needed to fit within 42 minutes, and they didn't have an extra 2 minutes for Felicity to wait.

Or maybe since apparently they are going to give Olicity a real wedding on their own show - they didn't need them to do that at all?  It was just poor writing.  If Iris  had done this, oh my GOD Iris would be flayed alive by this fandom.

5 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I saw Felicity jumping in as her wanting to seize the moment to marry Oliver and to have a joint wedding with her friends who have been very supportive of her and Oliver. I honestly took it as her wanting them to marry at the same time and that it would be a cute thing.

Clearly Iris and Barry thought this was adorable as well. I get why some people have issues with it. There are people who need the spotlight to be on them and would stab you if you wore the same outfit as them let alone share a wedding but I think WestAllen are very lovely and were cheering their friends on. And I think Felicity knows that she has nice friends who would be up for a double wedding in this instance.

Just because the writing wrote them as being okay with being glorified props doesn't make it okay.  It's called a trope for a reason and the reason is ugly.  The writers should have done this differently as it made Olicity come off pretty badly - to the point where I was warming up to Arrow again but this turned me right off.  Maybe it could have been better had Iris/Barry suggested it for Oliver/FeFe (it still would have been kinda bad, but not as bad)?

Edited November 29, 2017 by phoenics

[Noneofyourbusiness]

4 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I saw Felicity jumping in as her wanting to seize the moment to marry Oliver and to have a joint wedding with her friends who have been very supportive of her and Oliver. I honestly took it as her wanting them to marry at the same time and that it would be a cute thing.

Clearly Iris and Barry thought this was adorable as well. I get why some people have issues with it. There are people who need the spotlight to be on them and would stab you if you wore the same outfit as them let alone share a wedding but I think WestAllen are very lovely and were cheering their friends on. And I think Felicity knows that she has nice friends who would be up for a double wedding in this instance.

I agree. I think the objections are overly serious.

[lemotomato]

2 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Or maybe since apparently they are going to give Olicity a real wedding on their own show - they didn't need them to do that at all?  It was just poor writing.  If Iris  had done this, oh my GOD Iris would be flayed alive by this fandom.

They're not giving Olicity a real wedding on their show. They're getting a reception, just like Westallen did. 

And no, I highly doubt Iris would be facing the same kind of hate Felicity is receiving because she's never been treated that way by Olicity fans. But since you refer to Felicity as "Fefe", I guess you wouldn't know.

[SevenStars]

2 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Technically it didn't happen on their own show.

I think she was talking about the Flash hour where we didn't really get any of the flash main characters except for Iris and Barry. Even Barry was mostly background wallpaper which I wouldn't have so much of a problem with if at least Cisco and Caitlin got some screen time during that hour. 

Really, I think the fact that none of Flash characters got doppelgangers should have been a clue from the start, that Flash was going to be use as the Trojan horse for this crossover.

[WindofChange]

I just find it hilarious how there is apparently a proper procedure and code of conduct for an impromptu ceremony where everyone is in funeral clothes (as they had just come back from a funeral of a man who sacrificed himself to save all of them) and are next to a pile of vomit in the park...

I never got this memo!

Edited November 29, 2017 by WindofChange

[phoenics]

Just now, lemotomato said:

They're not giving Olicity a real wedding on their show. They're getting a reception, just like Westallen did. 

And no, I highly doubt Iris would be facing the same kind of hate Felicity is receiving because she's never been treated that way by Olicity fans. But since you refer to Felicity as "Fefe", I guess you wouldn't know.

What reception?  That was the rehearsal dinner?  You know - the one where Oliver proposed and was about to go down on one knee but stopped - NOT because he realized it was rude AF but because he was sore?

[SevenStars]

6 minutes ago, Trini said:

Next year will be the WestAllen Anniversary and The Flash's 100th episode; so it might be worth it. I hope so.

Westallen and Olicity, so I'm prepare for them to celebrate it together. But I might still skip it and just wait for heavily edit clips of Iris and Barry.

[lemotomato]

Just now, phoenics said:

What reception?  That was the rehearsal dinner?  You know - the one where Oliver proposed and was about to go down on one knee but stopped - NOT because he realized it was rude AF but because he was sore?

I don't argue about hypothetical things that never actually happened, sorry!

[phoenics]

4 minutes ago, WindofChange said:

I just find it hilarious how there is apparently a proper procedure and code of conduct for an impromptu ceremony where everyone is in funeral clothes (as they had just come back from a funeral of a man who sacrificed himself to save all of them) next to a pile of vomit in the park...

I never got this memo!

Some people consider weddings sacred.

And as many of us have stated - it's not just about the ceremony - it's about how Westallen was used as a prop for Olicity the entire crossover, with Olicity never supporting back.  Again - did they EVER ask WA about how they felt about their aborted wedding?  No.  Too busy centering themselves.

3 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I don't argue about hypothetical things that never actually happened, sorry!

That actually did happen.  In the first crossover episode.  Oliver listened to Joe's toast to Iris and Barry (at their rehearsal dinner the night before the wedding) and immediately proposed to Felicity.  He said he'd go down on one knee but he was sore from fighting.  Then Oliver and FeFe fought and it actually disrupted the RD.

Edited November 29, 2017 by phoenics

[lemotomato]

2 minutes ago, phoenics said:

That actually did happen.  In the first crossover episode.

Oliver got down on one knee and loudly proposed to Felicity in front of everyone the first crossover episode? How on earth did I miss that?

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, SevenStars said:

I think Flash have done that almost every time they mention Arrow or in a cross-over and usually I don't have a problem with it. I'm usually like whatever cause I understand why it's being done but this time the way it was done makes me determine never to watch Arrow. It could have been done so much better but I guess the writers really, really thought Arrow needed to be prop and promote so they were more in your face about it.

IMO, this was more or less a tribute to Oliver Queen and I AM HAPPY TO HAVE IT. They brought back TOMMY, Oliver's life long Best Friend who Oliver stopped killing as the Hood to honor after he died. Oliver marries his true love, Felicity after 6 years, with his friend Barry there. The Barry that Oliver had said couldn't get the girl cause they were heroes and it's full circle that Oliver does get the girl. IMO, it's not propping Arrow. It's giving Oliver and Arrow it's due in the Arrowverse.

[WindofChange]

4 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Some people consider weddings sacred.

If it was so sacred for Barry/Iris then why do it in funeral clothing? That's pretty much bad juju right there.

Edited November 29, 2017 by WindofChange

[statsgirl]

41 minutes ago, phoenics said:

It was less about stealing the spotlight and more about killing the moment and not letting Iris and Barry have that moment to themselves.  FeFe could have waited 2 minutes.  I felt this also cheapened Olicity too - they didn't even really say vows.  I think Oliver did, but Felicity didn't.  It was rushed and unfortunate.

Or it was spontaneous and heartfelt.

Barry and Iris didn't seem to mind having their friends join them in the ceremony. If they had objected, they could have said something. Both Iris and Barry had been pushing Oliver and Felicity to get married since the first scenes of getting ready for their wedding. They may have been happy to have them be a part of their own ceremony.   It certainly would make for more interesting anniversary celebrations.

Not to mention, without Felicity suggesting Diggle marry them, there would have been no wedding at all.

Would you have preferred Felicity to wait until Barry and Iris were about to kiss before she jumped in?  I think that would have been much worse.

31 minutes ago, SevenStars said:

I think Flash have done that almost every time they mention Arrow or in a cross-over

Has Joe ever said anything good about Oliver?  Oliver has consistently been the whipping boy for him and a number of other Flash characters.

19 minutes ago, SevenStars said:

I think she was talking about the Flash hour where we didn't really get any of the flash main characters except for Iris and Barry. Even Barry was mostly background wallpaper which I wouldn't have so much of a problem with if at least Cisco and Caitlin got some screen time during that hour. 

Really, I think the fact that none of Flash characters got doppelgangers should have been a clue from the start, that Flash was going to be use as the Trojan horse for this crossover.

The Supergirl characters were barely on the Supergirl episode, and the supporting Arrow characters were a "blink and you miss them" on the Arrow episode. Thea was missing entirely and Diggle only popped up at the very end. The only cast that was done just was the Lot cast.

That's what happens when they write a storyline for the four crossover episodes instead of the bad patchwork that was the last two crossover attempts.  Maybe next year Supergirl and LoT will get their due.  This one was about evil dopplegangers + Barry/Iris and Oliver/Felicity.

Edited November 29, 2017 by statsgirl

[WindofChange]

Also no mention of Iris/Barry being disrespectful of Stein and his sacrifice? Or how 'tacky' it was for them to ask Oliver to marry them right after a funeral? I find that interesting. I mean I'm not mentioning it because I understand the reasoning behind it. But if we're talking about 'sacred' ceremonies and 'respect' and 'tackiness'.. Well we have to be fair right?

Does this mean they have no respect for Stein and his sacrifice and were incredibly rude? hmm

Edited November 29, 2017 by WindofChange

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, phoenics said:

What reception?  That was the rehearsal dinner?  You know - the one where Oliver proposed and was about to go down on one knee but stopped - NOT because he realized it was rude AF but because he was sore?

Oliver was never going to get down on one knee to propose. That was a joke. He wasn't actually going to do that because he already DID propose to Felicity in s4 when he was down on one knee and then Felicity was shot minutes later and paralyzed. The proposal in Part 1 was actually impromptu but quiet and just between them and no one overheard it until Felicity shouted at Oliver. And she didn't do that for attention. She was exasperated and lost it for a moment.

[SevenStars]

32 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

 

Clearly Iris and Barry thought this was adorable as well. I get why some people have issues with it. There are people who need the spotlight to be on them and would stab you if you wore the same outfit as them let alone share a wedding but I think WestAllen are very lovely and were cheering their friends on. And I think Felicity knows that she has nice friends who would be up for a double wedding in this instance.

We really don't know how Iris and Barry feels about it cause Felicity didn't give them a chance to object without looking like selfish assholes for wanting to finally have a wedding ceremony all about them when all the others they tried to have before were interrupted by circumstances beyond their controls. Reason why they wanted to elope/ have have an informal ceremony thinking they wouldn't get interrupted in the middle of the ceremony if they didn't try to make it a big thing, but they still got interrupted. But either way, I don't know how the writers made Iris and Barry feels about it. My opinion on it is that it was tacky, rude and self-center the way it was done, even if the writers have Barry and Iris say how happy they are to have the same wedding anniversary as Olicity. I will still feel the same way.

Edited November 29, 2017 by SevenStars

[phoenics]

1 minute ago, statsgirl said:

Or it was spontaneous and heartfelt.

Barry and Iris didn't seem to mind having their friends join them in the ceremony. If they had objected, they could have said something. Both Iris and Barry had been pushing Oliver and Felicity to get married since the first scenes of getting ready for their wedding. they may have been happy to have them be a part of their own ceremony.   It certainly would make for more interesting anniversary celebrations.

Not to mention, without Felicity suggesting Diggle marry them, there would have been no wedding at all.

Would you have preferred Felicity to wait until Barry and Iris were about to kiss before she jumped in?  I think that would have been much worse.

Has Joe ever said anything good about Oliver?  Oliver has consistently been the whipping boy for him and a number of other Flash characters.

The Supergirl characters were barely on the Supergirl episode, and the supporting Arrow characters were a "blink and you miss them" on the Arrow episode. Thea was missing entirely and Diggle only popped up at the very end. The only cast that was done just was the Lot cast.

That's what happens when they write a storyline for the four crossover episodes instead of the bad patchwork that was the last two crossover attempts.  Maybe next year Supergirl and LoT will get their due.  This one was about evil dopplegangers + Barry/Iris and Oliver/Felicity.

We got a lot of Alex/Supergirl on the Supes episode.  I was salty about them killing Jimmy though.  Yet another trope.

And again - I think it's poor writing to have Barry and Iris be okay with that - but that's only a small issue.  They were still - as characters - used by the writers to prop up another couple and not given any of that same courtesy back.  They gave Iris and Barry almost no PoV for most of the crossover concerning their aborted wedding - and instead had Olicity make everything about them.  I found it distasteful and it made me not want to watch them anymore.  I had begun to warm back up to it after the Iris/Fe team up, but this quickly soured it for me.

I would have preferred Olicity wait until after Barry and Iris had kissed and were done.  Then as they walked off, they could have had Felicity ask Dig to marry them and then Barry and Iris could have run back excitedly to help out.

I actually think this show featured Supergirl characters pretty heavily - just some were doppelgangers.  My thought is that they wanted people to tune into SG and Arrow, so they made Kara and Oliver have the evil doppelgangers.

The writers could have handled this all better.

5 minutes ago, WindofChange said:

Also no mention of Iris/Barry being disrespectful of Stein and his sacrifice? Or how 'tacky' it was for them to ask Oliver to marry them right after a funeral? I find that interesting. I mean I'm not mentioning it because I understand the reasoning behind it. But if we're talking about 'sacred' ceremonies and 'respect' and 'tackiness'.. Well we have to be fair right?

Does this mean they have no respect for Stein and his sacrifice and were incredibly rude? hmm

They didn't ask Oliver to marry them.  They said they were going to just go to the justice of the peace. It was Felicity who suggested that - not them, so direct your outrage at her.  That's fair - as SHE was the one who suggested it.

So - I guess she was the rude one.

[SevenStars]

6 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

 

The Supergirl characters were barely on the Supergirl episode, and the supporting Arrow characters were a "blink and you miss them" on the Arrow episode. Thea was missing entirely and Diggle only popped up at the very end. The only cast that was done just was the Lot cast.

That's what happens when they write a storyline for the four crossover episodes instead of the bad patchwork that was the last two crossover attempts.  Maybe next year Supergirl and LoT will get their due.  This one was about evil dopplegangers + Barry/Iris and Oliver/Felicity.

Kara as the lead on Supergirl was all over the crossover,  so I understand why they might not have had most of the main characters of that show in the episodes. But we can't say the same for Barry. Which is why I mention that I wouldn't have had a problem if when Barry became wallpaper, Cisco and Caitlin were there to represent the Flash portion. 

[phoenics]

12 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Oliver was never going to get down on one knee to propose. That was a joke. He wasn't actually going to do that because he already DID propose to Felicity in s4 when he was down on one knee and then Felicity was shot minutes later and paralyzed. The proposal in Part 1 was actually impromptu but quiet and just between them and no one overheard it until Felicity shouted at Oliver. And she didn't do that for attention. She was exasperated and lost it for a moment.

It doesn't matter.  Don't people like Ollie now that it's just horribly rude, tacky and horrible etiquette to use someone else's RD/wedding festivities to propose to your own gf?  Oliver came from money.  He should know better.  I know FeFe didn't do it for attention - but it was disruptive and that's because Oliver never should have tried to piggyback off of someone else's emotional event.  It's tacky. 

I'm glad I don't have friends like that.

Edited November 29, 2017 by phoenics

[Trini]

I mean I was spoiled for the double wedding, but I was NOT prepared for the RUDENESS. They could have set it up without making Felicity look like a jerk.

[phoenics]

1 minute ago, Trini said:

I mean I was spoiled for the double wedding, but I was NOT prepared for the RUDENESS. They could have set it up without making Felicity look like a jerk.

Agreed.  The writers really didn't do her any favors at all in this.

This article from E! online sums it up for me:  http://www.eonline.com/au/news/896878/arrow-s-oliver-and-felicity-were-the-worst-wedding-guests-ever-in-the-cw-crossover

Edited November 29, 2017 by phoenics

[SevenStars]

16 minutes ago, WindofChange said:

Also no mention of Iris/Barry being disrespectful of Stein and his sacrifice? Or how 'tacky' it was for them to ask Oliver to marry them right after a funeral? I find that interesting. I mean I'm not mentioning it because I understand the reasoning behind it. But if we're talking about 'sacred' ceremonies and 'respect' and 'tackiness'.. Well we have to be fair right?

Does this mean they have no respect for Stein and his sacrifice and were incredibly rude? hmm

Barry and Iris didn't get marry during the funeral. They didn't suddenly decide to get marry. Their marriage that they had been planning since last season got interrupted and they make a decision that there was no reason for them to wait since it seems like they are fated to get interrupted which is one of the reason they wanted the informal ceremony. And honestly, unless it was one of their close family members, I don't see why they should have to wait.

Edited November 29, 2017 by SevenStars

[TDT]

3 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

And, again: I vote for Mick Rory to appear on every show.  Not just D.C. ones either.  All the CW shows!  Mick shows up on Riverdale and begins freaking out poor Archie!  Mick goes to iZombie and freaks out himself over all the talking zombies!  Mick appears in My Crazy Ex-Girlfriend and sings a song about fire!  I want all Mick, all the time!  

That would be an interesting thing for the CW to do for either April Fools Day or Halloween,some phenomenon happens that causes all CW show characters to pop up in different shows(except for Valor,which has been cancelled)..

-Seeing the Riverdale cast appear on The 100

-Sam & Dean on Arrow

iZombie characters on Suoergirl or Legends of Tomorrow (technically iZombie is a DC property since its owned by Vertigo)

-Barry,Iris,Cisco and Caitlin on My Crazy Ex-Girlfriend

-Oliver & Felicity on Dynasty

[lemotomato]

7 minutes ago, phoenics said:

They didn't ask Oliver to marry them.

Actually, Barry did ask Oliver if he could marry them because he was the mayor. 

[phoenics]

1 minute ago, SevenStars said:

Barry and Iris didn't marry during the funeral. They didn't suddenly decided to get marry. Their marriage that they had been planning since last season got interrupted and they make a decision that there was no reason for them go wait since it seems like they are fated to get interrupted when of the reason they wanted the informal ceremony. And honestly, unless it was one of their close family members, I don't see why they should have to wait.

Barry and Iris were actually going to go to a JoP.  They said right then that they would just do that.  They weren't the ones suggesting to get married right then.  Felicity did that.

[Mellowyellow]

Squee worthy moment for me was the whole Kara/Ray/Felicity exchange about how they knew each other cuz they used to date. 

Ray: Oliver got the girl and I got a lifetime of adventure on a spaceship (something like that)

Hehe and then EvilOliver shoots him in the back. 

There was something so charming about the scene.

LOVED Ray's debut as well. He is the second cutest patootie in Arrowverse. He totally kicked ass!!!!!!!

[meowmeow]

2 minutes ago, SevenStars said:

Barry and Iris didn't marry during the funeral. They didn't suddenly decided to get marry. Their marriage that they had been planning since last season got interrupted and they make a decision that there was no reason for them go wait since it seems like they are fated to get interrupted when of the reason they wanted the informal ceremony. And honestly, unless it was one of their close family members, I don't see why they should have to wait.

Some people see funerals as sacred....

[phoenics]

2 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Actually, Barry did ask Oliver if he could marry them because he was the mayor. 

You're right.  He did.  

Quick question - is Felicity supposed to be Jewish?  Thinking about her speech to evilOllie.

Edited November 29, 2017 by phoenics

[catrox14]

33 minutes ago, Trini said:

??
For once? Doesn't Arrow get a ratings boost whenever The Flash crosses over? Your welcome!

I'm not talking about ratings. I'm talking about storytelling. Also, if Arrow fails in s1 then the Flash and LoT never see the light of day. You're welcome.

1 minute ago, phoenics said:

Quick question - is Felicity supposed to be Jewish?  

Yes. It was established in s1 of Arrow

[statsgirl]

The day I got married, I was so happy I wanted the world to join in.   Barry and Iris don't strike me as the self-centred type.  Well Iris doesn't anyway.

Quote

 

Barry:  Iris and I talked about it

Iris:  Yeah, we're just going to get ourselves a justice of the peace and get it done quick and simple..... we already had the ceremony, so all we need to do now is exchange vows and rings

Felicity:  Well if you want it to be personal, I think we know a guy who's already ordained. [Barry runs to get Diggle without asking his permission.]

(later) Felicity to Iris and Barry: If you guys don't mind..  [both Iris and Barry smile]

 

Felicity not only made it possible for Iris and Barry to be married right then, she asked them if it was okay for her and Oliver to join them.

If you want to talk about rude -- Barry bringing Diggle to the park without saying a word to Diggle, without asking him if it was okay to transport him, without asking him if he would marry them.

Obviously the writers thought it was cute and going by the acting Barry and Iris didn't object.  I guess I just think better of Iris and Barry than to be that petty.

[quarks]

So, that was a rather rushed but mostly ok ending to the crossovers.

Good things:

1. Hey, it's only taken what, like six years, but finally, the Arrowverse has learned how to give a regular a proper exit: a nice, self sacrificing action scene, followed by another scene where he gets to have a meaningful moment with the character he has the strongest ties to, and plenty of time to allow other characters - Team Legends, Barry, Iris and Caitlin - to react. If this had to happen (and I guess it did) I'm glad that Legends took the time to do this properly - and to bring in the two Flash characters that had a strong tie to him. Nice.

ALSO INCREDIBLY SAD WHEN I WAS EXPECTING SOMETHING FUN but let's move on.  After acknowledging that Ray keeps that picture of him and Stein. Also a very nice touch.

And "Tell Ronnie I miss him." 

2. And the Steins think that Jax is a member of their family! Sniffle.

3. Team Legends had the hands down best entrance of any of the groups so far - admittedly, that's partly because Team Flash really didn't get an entrance, and Team New Arrows remains rather pathetic - but really, Ray getting to come in and save Supergirl at the last minute by becoming tiny, and then Nate announcing Team Legends, followed by Amaya and Zari - great stuff.

Plus, Superman saved Supergirl.  (I am choosing to ignore Henry Cavill's entire existence right now.)

4. Also fun - little Ray jumping on those T-spheres and zipping around. I think that's the first time I've actually liked those T-spheres since they were introduced.

5. And Nate catching Supergirl because he's the Man of Steel. I laughed. I know I shouldn't have, but I laughed.

6. Liked Iris's story about wanting to be a ballerina. That was sweet.

7. Snart, still hamming it up and demanding due process for everyone. No wonder Mick couldn't take it.

8. And speaking of Mick, poor Mick, so sad to learn that he was a hero on Earth-X. Heh.

9. I liked this group fight much more than the group fights on the Arrow and Flash sections.  Ok, that huge hero walk was as cheesy as hell, and I kinda wish that someone had let Juliana Harvaky know that she was well ahead of the rest of the group and her pose looked weird, and yes, some of the special effects lacked a certain specialness, but my little inner comic fan did kinda squeal. 

(Even as the rest of me was cracking up at the obvious issues with the extras fleeing in the background. I'll have to recheck, but that was a second unit director up in the upper left waving at them, wasn't it?  And the bits of the clearly not extras waving happily in the background may just beat the random donkey in the crossovers a couple years back for Best Unintentional Addition to the episode.)

10. "I love a good pop culture reference in times of crisis." Speaking for all of us, Cisco.

11. And yes, after years of waiting for this, we finally got Oliver in the hood kissing Felicity! That bit was better than their wedding scene, I thought. 

12. That scene on the Waverider with everyone was kinda cool. 

13. Also loved that brief "blink and you'll miss it" scene with Sara and Oliver - a reminder of just how well those two know each other. 

14. And Caitlin, Amaya and Zari teaming up? Yes.  

15. Snart and Barry, HUGGING AT LAST.

16. "You hit that?" "SHUT UP." 

It's arguable, but that may have been the greatest scene of an episode filled with great scenes.

17. And awwww, it ends with both of our couples Happy and Married at last, with everyone who would feel bad and very single about this right now safely out of the area. 

Questionable things:

1. Really, Nazi Oliver, after meeting these people, you really think they'd just give up Supergirl? 

2. I was really glad to watch Oliver kill Nazi Oliver, but kinda sad that Iris didn't get to do that.

3. Was that Moira's voice on the Nazi Waverider? Heh.

4. Up, up and away! I mean, ok, I laughed, but seriously?

5. Any chance on Kara considering Nate? I mean, he is a Man of Steel, and he did hold her in his arms. 

Please understand that this above question is not against Amaya, but Mon-El.

6. How does Diggle know everyone's middle names? And even in the Arrowverse, don't you need some kind of marriage license?

7. Regarding the whole interrupting the vows thing -

One, as others have noted, this happened in the same crossover event where Nazis interrupted the wedding. Neither Oliver nor Felicity showed any intent of interrupting that formal event. Two, Barry and Iris had just said that they had decided not to have any sort of wedding at all - they just planned to get a justice of the peace somewhere. Felicity mentioning Diggle allowed them to have an actual friend, not a stranger, conduct their wedding, and have two friends at their wedding. Three, Barry and Iris had earlier made it clear, in more than one scene, that they were hoping Oliver and Felicity would get married.

Four, and the biggie, this entire conversation would be one thing if either Iris or Barry had been upset - but Iris and Barry didn't mind. They looked happy. Again, they'd already given up on the entire wedding deal. 

8. And yes, all that said, would it have been nice to have each wedding on its own show? Sure. I can completely understand fans wanting that/preferring that. But since that would have required still more scheduling hassles or fans complaining that Barry didn't come to Oliver/Felicity's wedding and vice versa....this works for me. All very cute, Iris got to give a really lovely speech, and Oliver got to grin and look eager, and I for one would like to thank Diggle for having the courtesy to leave his arms bare for the event and stop throwing up for long enough to get through the ceremony.

And I also liked this as a callback to the first crossover episode, where Barry and Oliver were both staring at Iris and Felicity, thinking that they wouldn't get either girl. And now, here they were, marrying them. 

9. That said, although Team Legends got off some awesome moments here and got to pause for a character death, they do seem to have a tendency to get isolated in their episodes of these crossovers, don't they? I mean, this is the second year in a row where the Legends crossover episode ends with an Oliver/Barry thing. Happens when you're the last part of the crossover, but still.

Bad things:

1. Look, I know it's a comic book show so some crossovers (pardon the pun) will be inevitable, but between Ray doing the Ant-Man/Giant Man thing from Avengers and Caitlin doing Iceman's ice slides, at times I kinda felt like I was watching a Marvel ripoff - which is unfair, especially given that Ray Palmer slightly predates Henry Pym, but still.

2. Very nice of the Nazis to agree to fight Our Heroes under that Vancouver bridge that we keep seeing every fourth episode or so. Doesn't Vancouver have another bridge?  And also, Arrow's favorite rooftop made its appearance in the crossover eps as well, and the wedding happened right in the same park that has featured Felicity/Alena conversations and Kara/Alex conversations and....look, Vancouver is a larger city than this.

3. Despite Benoist and Amell doing their damnedest to sell this, I never managed to buy them as a couple. Partly because "hey, we're going to jump to another universe and interrupt a wedding just to get you a heart, rather than, say, wait until Supergirl is alone and not surrounded by superheroes" was not exactly the fastest way to save your spouse, Nazi Oliver, partly because Benoist was just not great at the evil, and partly because I kinda felt at the end there that Nazi Oliver was more into Earth-1 Felicity than Nazi Kara. 

4. Oh, come on, Barry.  First of all, yes, you can kill Eobard because death for him isn't actually death, it's just a little bit of pain. But second of all, there's a big difference between "not killing Eobard" and "letting him zip around killing people."  Man. Even moments before you get married, you're the worst.

5. Oh, Legends of Tomorrow, you COULD HAVE JUST LET STEIN LEAVE THE SHOW QUIETLY AND BE WITH HIS WIFE AND DAUGHTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! INSTEAD, YOU HAD TO GIVE US THE SECOND SADDEST DEATH IN THE ARROWVERSE EVER, DIDN'T YOU! DIDN'T YOU!

(needs more booze)

[lemotomato]

Personally I don't think Barry deserves to have a nice anything after letting Nazi Eobard just escape the way he did, but I like Iris and she should get what she wants, and she chose Barry. Oh well. I hope she yelled at him when she found out what he did, though, because that's totally going to come back and haunt them.

[theschnauzers]

2 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Squee worthy moment for me was the whole Kara/Ray/Felicity exchange about how they knew each other cuz they used to date. 

Ray: Oliver got the girl and I got a lifetime of adventure on a spaceship (something like that)

Hehe and then EvilOliver shoots him in the back. 

There was something so charming about the scene.

LOVED Ray's debut as well. He is the second cutest patootie in Arrowverse. He totally kicked ass!!!!!!!

Which Ray are you referring to in each sentence? I assume the second one is "The Ray" (Russell Tovey) It seems the other Ray is Ray Palmer (Brandon Routh), right?

[SevenStars]

3 minutes ago, meowmeow said:

Some people see funerals as sacred....

Which is why people don't get marry in the middle of it. Which is why people wait until it is done to get marry or do whatever, like Barry and Iris respectful did. They didn't even announced their intention to do so to anyone and most of those people who were in the funeral only came for their weddings. Instead they were quietly going to do it with only themsleves. They just wanted to end the day as husband and wife like they planned. 

[Mellowyellow]

Just now, theschnauzers said:

Which Ray are you referring to in each sentence? I assume the second one is "The Ray" (Russell Tovey) It seems the other Ray is Ray Palmer (Brandon Routh), right?

Always "my" Ray aka Ray Palmer.

I loved his appearance in the crossover as Tiny Atom holding onto the scalpel.

[phoenics]

Just now, statsgirl said:

The day I got married, I was so happy I wanted the world to join in.   Barry and Iris don't strike me as the self-centred type.  Well Iris doesn't anyway.

 

How is it self centered for a couple to not want to share their special moment with anyone else?  It's not.  Felicity was rude.  That Iris and Barry chose not to be rude back to her, or petty, doesn't absolve Felicity of her rudeness and self-centeredness.  It's like folks who don't ever RSVP.  Just because the bride and groom make accommodations for them doesn't mean they aren't rude.

But I've made all of these points already so I'll just move on.  My thoughts stand as is.

[WindofChange]

9 minutes ago, SevenStars said:

Barry and Iris didn't get marry during the funeral.

They got married on the same day of a funeral for man who sacrificed himself so that they could live. Instead of honoring him they wanted to make it about themselves that day. I don't see anyone really criticizing them for that if they are really worried about optics and what's considered 'rude'? 

Apply the same standard as you did on Felicity/Oliver as Barry/Iris who were just as wrong to get married right after a funeral.

If you don't want to then I don't see why you should fault Felicity/Oliver for wanting to get married too. 

[phoenics]

1 minute ago, Mellowyellow said:

Always "my" Ray aka Ray Palmer.

I loved his appearance in the crossover as Tiny Atom holding onto the scalpel.

That was one of my fave moments.  I cheered.  Okay - screamed.

[catrox14]

7 minutes ago, phoenics said:

It doesn't matter.  Don't people like Ollie now that it's just horribly rude, tacky and horrible etiquette to use someone else's RD/wedding festivities to propose to your own gf?  Oliver came from money.  He should know better.  I know FeFe didn't do it for attention - but it was disruptive and that's because Oliver never should have tried to piggyback off of someone else's emotional event.  It's tacky. 

I'm glad I don't have friends like that.

People do a lot of stupid things at wedding events. Sara and Alex got drunk and made out at the venue.

It didn't take any attention away from Barry and Iris. It's not like he proposed to her during Joe's speech. Oliver and Felicity were by themselves and having a quite moment after the toast and the celebration of Barry and Iris. They didn't impede the proceedings. I mean in Part 1, Barry was pushing/encouraging Oliver to put a ring on Felicity's finger when they were being fitted for tuxes. Not every moment at a wedding is 100% about the bride and groom 100% of the time. Weddings and funerals make people emotional. JMHO

[phoenics]

Just now, WindofChange said:

They got married on the same day of a funeral for man who sacrificed himself so that they could live. Instead of honoring him they wanted to make it about themselves that day. I don't see anyone really criticizing them for that if they are really worried about optics and what's considered 'rude'? 

Apply the same standard as you did on Felicity/Oliver as Barry/Iris who were just as wrong to get married right after a funeral.

If you don't want to then I don't see why you should fault Felicity/Oliver for wanting to get married too. 

I don't fault Fe/Ol for wanting to get married - I just wanted them to wait until Iris and Barry were done, you know - like Iris and Barry did?  They didn't pop up in the middle of the funeral when Stein's wife was pouring dirt over the coffin and demand to be married.  They waited and then walked down to the harbor (where they first kissed, btw) and told Oliver and Felicity that they would go to a Justice of the Peace.  It was Felicity who suggested that wasn't good enough - prompting Barry to suggest a mayor.

It feels like you're twisting what we're saying to create a strawman and false equivalency none of us are arguing.

[WindofChange]

11 minutes ago, quarks said:

4. Oh, come on, Barry.  First of all, yes, you can kill Eobard because death for him isn't actually death, it's just a little bit of pain. But second of all, there's a big difference between "not killing Eobard" and "letting him zip around killing people."  Man. Even moments before you get married, you're the worst.

 

This was actually my biggest issue of the episode... This was yikes all around.

[SevenStars]

1 minute ago, WindofChange said:

They got married on the same day of a funeral for man who sacrificed himself so that they could live. Instead of honoring him they wanted to make it about themselves that day. I don't see anyone really criticizing them for that if they are really worried about optics and what's considered 'rude'? 

Apply the same standard as you did on Felicity/Oliver as Barry/Iris who were just as wrong to get married right after a funeral.

If you don't want to then I don't see why you should fault Felicity/Oliver for wanting to get married too. 

How is getting quietly marry like they planned dishonoring the memory of a dead love one ????!!  But whatever....it's your opinion. 

FYI: I don't care that Felicity/Oliver got married on the same day. I don't have a problem with that. I made my peace with them getting marry with Westallen, having a double wedding. My problem was with the way they had Felicity interrupt without waiting for Barry and Iris to be done with their ceremony. If Felicity had just done that, I wouldn't care about this double wedding crap that I accepted weeks ago. 

[WindofChange]

1 minute ago, phoenics said:

I don't fault Fe/Ol for wanting to get married - I just wanted them to wait until Iris and Barry were done, you know - like Iris and Barry did?  They didn't pop up in the middle of the funeral when Stein's wife was pouring dirt over the coffin and demand to be married.  They waited and then walked down to the harbor (where they first kissed, btw) and told Oliver and Felicity that they would go to a Justice of the Peace.  It was Felicity who suggested that wasn't good enough - prompting Barry to suggest a mayor.

The problem was 1) Timing. There wasn't enough time in the episode considering the wedding scene was only 2 minutes long. 2) We're talking about respect and whether or not people are being rude. No Iris/Barry didn't ask Oliver to marry them during the funeral, but instead of waiting for another day and leaving that day to honor Stein they didn't. They made it about them. How is that not rude/disrespectful? Not only that but considering Iris was afraid of bad juju (404 I think?) it also makes no sense why she'd be ok with marrying Barry in funeral clothing. 

[statsgirl]

23 minutes ago, phoenics said:

How is it self centered for a couple to not want to share their special moment with anyone else? 

Iris said that they already had the ceremony so they just wanted to quickly exchange vows and rings, don't bother coming back Kara.  They had the big reception, the toast by their father the church and flowers and puffy dresses and all their friends attending.  Apparently Iris considers that their special moment since they turned down Kara returning for the finish in favour of getting it done quickly to have it done.

There is nothing within the show that suggests that Barry and Iris found Felicity rude and objected to sharing the finalization of their wedding with their friends, and things (e.g. smiling) that suggests they were happy to have Oliver and Felicity join in.

35 minutes ago, phoenics said:

I'm glad I don't have friends like that.

Through all the crossovers including the mini-ones, Barry has asked Oliver for help and advice and training and Oliver has come through, sometimes at cost to himself.  He's been a damn good friend to Barry.

And then there was the crossover  two years ago (Flash s2, Arrow s4) when Barry told Oliver that Felicity broke up with him because he had a son (not true) and it caused the whole mess that led to Felicity breaking her engagement to Oliver because Oliver acted believing what Barry had told him and lied to her.  Come to think of it Oliver and Felicity might have been married for almost two years by now if Barry hadn't interfered.  Yeah, Barry owes him.

Edited November 29, 2017 by statsgirl

[WindofChange]

3 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Why couldn't he put him in Iron Heights with the other metas?

Because they want to bring him back later in the season I'm guessing? Which... IDK why the Flash would want to bring back a Nazi to a show that's supposed to be lighter

[Kromm]

Worth every penny they spent on this crossover. That big battle was really well executed. It LOOKED like a big scale battle from the comic books.