S04.E08: Crisis On Earth-X (3)

[unlfan03]

21 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

Black-half-of-Firestorm Dude's comment on what the stars and triangles, especially the pink triangles, meant rankled me a bit.  He should have known this shit back in high school.  Maybe I'm being a overly sensitive gay dude?

All I know is that this Ray dude better stick around and better not be a one off.  Not enough (male) gay superheroes around, which is ironic, so having him around is nice.

I found his not knowing about pink triangles to be pretty normal, I thought that he should probably and known about yellow stars though. But I guess that would be an indictment on the American educational system. And I thought that it was probably a necessary and hopefully educational exposition dump. Most people think the Holocast was only about the extermination of Jews and are not taught it was about exterminating any one who was "different".

[legaleagle53]

54 minutes ago, unlfan03 said:

I found his not knowing about pink triangles to be pretty normal, I thought that he should probably and known about yellow stars though. But I guess that would be an indictment on the American educational system. And I thought that it was probably a necessary and hopefully educational exposition dump. Most people think the Holocast was only about the extermination of Jews and are not taught it was about exterminating any one who was "different".

Exactly, which is why Alex, Sara, and Iris were just as horrified by the Nazi invasion as Felicity was -- they all knew exactly what it meant for them in particular if these Nazis won.  And to have the doppleganger of Sara's  father confirm it when he bragged about killing his Earth's Sara -- his own daughter -- precisely because she was bisexual "filth" must have been especially horrendous for her.

[KirkB]

44 minutes ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

 The inclusion and use of just about every main and heavily recurring character from each show, aside from Dibny  (who wasn't missed, BTW).  But where was Thea??

I agree with you about Ralph. I do wonder, did they invite him and he said no, or did they not bother to invite him at all? As for the second part, since this concerns a different show and has nothing to do with the crossover, but I still want to answer your question

Spoiler

Without going into too much detail, Thea is in a coma.

[Perfect Xero]

1 hour ago, KirkB said:

I agree with you about Ralph. I do wonder, did they invite him and he said no, or did they not bother to invite him at all? As for the second part, since this concerns a different show and has nothing to do with the crossover, but I still want to answer your question

  Hide contents

Without going into too much detail, Thea is in a coma.

Re: Thea.

Spoiler

She came out of the coma in the last episode of Arrow before the Crossover.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

4 hours ago, KirkB said:

I agree with you about Ralph. I do wonder, did they invite him and he said no, or did they not bother to invite him at all? As for the second part, since this concerns a different show and has nothing to do with the crossover, but I still want to answer your question

  Reveal hidden contents

Without going into too much detail, Thea is in a coma.

 

2 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

Re: Thea.

  Reveal hidden contents

She came out of the coma in the last episode of Arrow before the Crossover.

Thanks for the answers, @KirkB & @Perfect Xero.

not sure where my original post, where the borrowed quoted part came from, went though....

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 11/28/2017 at 9:33 PM, Maverick said:

 Why are there concentration camps on Earth-X?  If the Nazis won the war in the 40s, they surely would have exterminated all the "undesirables" in the following 70 years.   I'm also curios how they got ahold of a timeship.  Are there Time Masters on Earth-X?

Some of the undesirables (from a Nazi perspective, of course) like gays, liberals, and intellectuals would likely persist regardless of efforts to stamp them out. 

In terms of undesirables like minorities and Jews, arguably the so-called Master Race might keep some around because it is tough to be superior without having a class of inferior people. They would just have them populate slave labor camps and the like.

I'll fanwank that there are fascist Time Masters, and a Vandal Savage who goes around trying to urge independence and kills Rip-X's family in the name of his call to so-called freedom.

[Terrafamilia]

You would think that the people of the respective Earths would consider their Earth to be Earth-1.

[KirkB]

5 minutes ago, Terrafamilia said:

You would think that the people of the respective Earths would consider their Earth to be Earth-1.

I imagine they do. Barry and Cisco, and to a lesser extent Harry, are the only one who generally refer to the Earth's having numbers.

[AudienceofOne]

26 minutes ago, KirkB said:

I imagine they do. Barry and Cisco, and to a lesser extent Harry, are the only one who generally refer to the Earth's having numbers.

Except that they say "we're from Earth 1" and Ray says "me too!"

That annoyed me way more than it should have. There's no regulatory body for reality numbering. Us dubbing ourselves Earth 1 is classic ethnocentrism (or whatever the multiverse version is). Having other characters go, "Oh, Earth 1! I know Earth 1. My boyfriend was born there!" grated with me far more than it should.

[KirkB]

You are talking about Ray as in Leo's boyfriend, not the Legend, right? I got confused for a second there. Did he say that? Because that would be a strange thing for a guy who has been on another Earth for who knows how long to say. I thought the whole Earth 1, Earth 2, etc. only started getting bandied about when Barry and company met 'Jay Garrick' in season 2.

Edited December 1, 2017 by KirkB

[AudienceofOne]

17 minutes ago, KirkB said:

You are talking about Ray as in Leo's boyfriend, not the Legend, right? I got confused for a second there. Did he say that? Because that would be a strange thing for a guy who has been on another Earth for who knows how long to say. I thought the whole Earth 1, Earth 2, etc. only started getting bandied about when Barry and company met 'Jay Garrick' in season 2.

Yeah THE Ray, rather than Ray. That is confusing, I know. And yes, he said he was from Earth 1. I did a double take but in comparison to the flames shooting out of my face over the Nazis that was not a bit deal.

I thought it was doubly, triply strange when

Spoiler

Captain Cold decided to stay on Earth 1, which is not his Earth, and THE Ray decided to go back to Earth X, which is not his Earth, without Leo who was apparently the love of his love. So, in a decision between staying in his original reality with the man he loved and going back alone to a different reality, he choose to leave. I WTFd that as well.

[legaleagle53]

21 hours ago, KirkB said:

I agree with you about Ralph. I do wonder, did they invite him and he said no, or did they not bother to invite him at all? As for the second part, since this concerns a different show and has nothing to do with the crossover, but I still want to answer your question

Hartley Sawyer tweeted that Ralph couldn't attend the wedding because his goldfish was sick.

[johntfs]

3 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I'll fanwank that there are fascist Time Masters, and a Vandal Savage who goes around trying to urge independence and kills Rip-X's family in the name of his call to so-called freedom.

Or you can assume that the technology came from Eobard Thawne.  Which is good since it means that the Earth-X Nazis probably can't build another one without him.

[starri]

"You know I can't argue with you when you look at me like that."

"That's why I look at you like that."

D'aaaaw.

[Trini]

So what do we think about The Ray? I don't know if we saw enough of him to make an informed judgement. I'm not familiar with the actor, but he did fine.

If he guest stars again, which show do you think he'll show up on?

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

So what do we think about The Ray? I don't know if we saw enough of him to make an informed judgement. I'm not familiar with the actor, but he did fine.

If he guest stars again, which show do you think he'll show up on?

I liked him. Not familiar with the actor, but he can act.

I suspect we’ll see him on Legends. Maybe we might get his background here?

The show

changed a bit about his history- he wasn’t gay in the comics; had a fling with Black Canary.

They'll probably add draaama with his family-how else to explain his presence on Earth -X, and not wanting to go back?

[Perfect Xero]

3 hours ago, Trini said:

So what do we think about The Ray? I don't know if we saw enough of him to make an informed judgement. I'm not familiar with the actor, but he did fine.

If he guest stars again, which show do you think he'll show up on?

Since Leo decided to stick around Central City, I'd guess that they'll both be showing up on Flash later in the season.

[Terrafamilia]

15 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

changed a bit about his history- he wasn’t gay in the comics; had a fling with Black Canary.

The most recent iteration of the Ray is gay. Don't you just love incessant reboots?

[GHScorpiosRule]

Guess I didn’t read far enough to see that.

[Twilight Man]

On 11/29/2017 at 1:13 AM, Whodunnit said:

As for the episode it felt a little like a backdoor pilot for something involving  the Ray, Red Tornado (?), Citizen Cold and Evil NeoNazis.

 

On 11/29/2017 at 3:06 AM, Trini said:

Pssst... it was.

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/video/2017/07/22/video-freedom-fighters-the-ray-comic-con-2017-sneak-peek-872405/20170722wbt11/

and yes, not only was that Russell doing the voice of the Ray, but that was also Grant, Stephen, and Melissa doing the voices of the evil trio as well.    Awesome!!!!

[Bruinsfan]

On 11/28/2017 at 9:04 PM, benteen said:

The first half was better but this crossover was still great fun.

Paul Blackthorne does a good job as a Nazi villain here.  Russell Tovey was terrific as Ray and Miller is great fun as always.

Want to talk about bad acting?  Jeremy Jordan as Winn X.  Oof.

Right there with you. I just cannot buy ANYONE taking their marching orders from a petulant man-child, whether or not he can grow a beard. Would have been much better if the resistance forces had been led by Earth-X's Joe West, or Martin Stein, or—how about this wacky idea—a new character that's not played by one of the CW regulars. I'd have paid folding money to see a Ronnie Cox guest appearance as Uncle Sam.

[DearEvette]

I think it would have been nice to see more recognizable faces from the CW shows as part of the resistance overall.  After having a real killer moment in the first hour, Wally disappeared.  He could have been a resistance fighter.  Him getting speedster powers on E-1 was the result of a very specific set of circumstances that didn't have to happen on E-X.  So he could have just been a regular guy fighting against Nazis.

I agree about Joe or even Diggle being the leader that would have been nice. Winn could have still been an objector to the plan, just not the leader.  Seems weird that E-X dopplegangers all seem to have be pulled from Arrow or Supergirl. 

[KirkB]

2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

I think it would have been nice to see more recognizable faces from the CW shows as part of the resistance overall.  After having a real killer moment in the first hour, Wally disappeared.  He could have been a resistance fighter.  Him getting speedster powers on E-1 was the result of a very specific set of circumstances that didn't have to happen on E-X.  So he could have just been a regular guy fighting against Nazis.

I agree about Joe or even Diggle being the leader that would have been nice. Winn could have still been an objector to the plan, just not the leader.  Seems weird that E-X dopplegangers all seem to have be pulled from Arrow or Supergirl. 

I pretty much agree. Maybe a Nazi Clarissa or a resistance Cat. Given what must have been vastly different circumstances it is a little odd James ended up in a suit and shield that looked exactly like a repainted Guardian suit. Except for obvious cost issues. But given how headstrong Wally is, without super speed and healing he probably would have run headlong into a fight he couldn't win and died early on.

I think they wanted to make Winn a leader because he is generally a follower on Supergirl.

[Trini]

You know, with all the fretting our heroes were doing about getting back to Earth-1; I guess everyone (including the writers) forgot that The Flash can travel between dimensions.

[sarthaz]

It's taken me almost a month to get through this shitfest, and I still have too much throw-up in my mouth to watch Part 4.  This whole crossover is so, so terrible, and now I have to sit through Legends of Tomorrow, this most laughably ridiculous of all the shows in this verse?  Can I just skip to the next Flash episode?

I'm not a comics guy, but is this Earth-X crap part of the existing universe, or can we blame the current show runners for this cartoonish nonsense?

[Starfish35]

2 hours ago, sarthaz said:

I'm not a comics guy, but is this Earth-X crap part of the existing universe, or can we blame the current show runners for this cartoonish nonsense?

Earth-X is from the comics (first appearing in 1973), as is Overgirl.  The showrunners didn't invent the concept. 

Edited December 20, 2017 by Starfish35

[AudienceofOne]

3 hours ago, sarthaz said:

It's taken me almost a month to get through this shitfest, and I still have too much throw-up in my mouth to watch Part 4.  This whole crossover is so, so terrible, and now I have to sit through Legends of Tomorrow, this most laughably ridiculous of all the shows in this verse?  Can I just skip to the next Flash episode?

I'm not a comics guy, but is this Earth-X crap part of the existing universe, or can we blame the current show runners for this cartoonish nonsense?

I'm glad somebody else on here thinks that LoT is just dumb and that Earth X is cartoonish nonsense.

But I have to say, in terms of the actual pace, plotting and integration of the different shows, this crossover is much better written than the others. I just couldn't get over how childish and borderline offensive the concept was.

Edited December 21, 2017 by AudienceofOne

[sarthaz]

5 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Earth-X is from the comics (first appearing in 1973), as is Overgirl.  The showrunners didn't invent the concept. 

I guess that's somewhat comforting.  Thanks.

[Trini]

8 hours ago, sarthaz said:

It's taken me almost a month to get through this shitfest, and I still have too much throw-up in my mouth to watch Part 4.  This whole crossover is so, so terrible, and now I have to sit through Legends of Tomorrow, this most laughably ridiculous of all the shows in this verse?  Can I just skip to the next Flash episode?

You could, but the resolution to at least one major Flash arc happens in that episode.