S12.E19: Season Finale: Candle Wicks and Lunatics

[zoeysmom]

10 minutes ago, lunastartron said:

Here you go. The boy band member was 98 Degrees emeritus Jeff Timmons. As @VedaPierce recounted, Tamra was supposedly captured on hot mic performing fellatio on him in a recording studio. There were also pre-season spoilers on Twitter that Peggy threw a tape or some manner of audio medium into a fountain/water at one of the filmings. Obviously, I have no idea if that was related and/or if the salacious yarn about Tamra has any veracity to it but said dispute certainly would have made for a much more entertaining season than the footage that was aired. If the story was spiked, I imagine it had more to do with the Timmonses and/or recording consent laws. 

http://www.allaboutthetea.com/2017/04/26/tamra-judge-trying-to-block-secret-audio-of-blow-job-with-jeff-timmons/

 

http://www.allaboutthetea.com/2017/05/10/texts-messages-of-rhocs-tamra-judges-love-connection-with-jeff-timmons/

 

http://www.allaboutthetea.com/2017/05/22/tamra-judge-shuts-down-scandalous-blow-job-audio-in-season-12/

Thanks for the links.

This all happened in August of 2010?   The same year Tamra separated from Simon and he filed for divorce.  That former friend Ricky has really got it in for Tamra.  

I believe it has everything to do with BS.  I am not that fond of Tamara but I don't find Ricky all that believable.  As to the studio owner-she waits seven years to bust her former friend?  

I think even worse of Vicki if she was trying to get this out about Tamra.  Although I am sure Gretchen enjoyed the story immensely.  

There is nothing that would keep the creepy studio owner from releasing the tape.  She just might not get Bravo exposure but she would get some mileage with it.  The ship has sailed as far as protecting Timmonses.

[nyxeus]

Maybe the next time Diko waxes one of their MANY MANY LUXURY CARS, he can wax Peggy's hair - it looks so brittle a light breeze could give her a pixie cut.

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, RHJunkie said:

If Sydney was really brainwashed by her father and has made calculated moves to hurt her mother on behalf of her father, her mother isn't ever going to get through to her if she continues to do exactly what Sydney asks her not to do. There has to be some balance that shouldn't require Tamra to have to live her life exactly as Sydney demands her to BUT there are certainly small things that Tamra can do to make the effort..like leaving her daughter off limits on the show and in the press. I can understand that it must hurt as a mother to have such a fractured relationship with your child but it's a relatively small effort to make to not use your daughter at all for a storyline or as a press release. If she doesn't want you mentioning her on her social media or on the show - it shouldn't be that hard to make that effort. Tamra is no innocent in the way she handled her divorce with Simon and whatever information Simon has been feeding their daughter, Tamra dug a hole big enough for herself that made it easy for Sydney to buy whatever it was her father was selling her. Tamra needs to set her boundaries of what is reasonable and what is not when it comes to trying to prove to her daughter that she wants a relationship with her. I do agree that they are playing games with Tamra though...at least Sdyney is. It's downright cruel to invite her mother and then later on claim that she was forced to do it. If it was her dad that felt that Tamra should have been there because it was such a big event for the family, Simon should have been the way to invite Tamra and give her a warning about how Sydney felt about her presence. Tamra was doomed before she event arrived at that graduation. 

Overall it's just a really sad situation where all parties involved have some level of fault. Sydney isn't a child anymore and I guess I'd rather believe that she chooses ignorance...because believing that her own father would manipulate her to the point where she has developed a cult-like personality is just too disturbing to consider. 

Without a doubt, Tamra has made mistakes when it comes to Sydney, she should have kept her name off of the show and off her SM accounts. That said, there are 2 other siblings that have no problems with how Tamra parents them and that is important because that means that Sydney isn't being honest when it comes to Tamra. Tamra posting that picture on her SM pages was nothing IMO, especially since both Simon and Sidney posted that same one a day earlier on theirs and neither of theirs are private. To my way of thinking, they set her up posting it. One day, Sydney will realize that her father used her as a weapon against her mother, that his main use for her was to case her mother pain and she will regret her actions and he will be shut out in the cold by her. As for Tamra, when that day comes, and it will, she will welcome Sydney back in with open loving arms.

1 hour ago, lunastartron said:

Here you go. The boy band member was 98 Degrees emeritus Jeff Timmons. As @VedaPierce recounted, Tamra was supposedly captured on hot mic performing fellatio on him in a recording studio. There were also pre-season spoilers on Twitter that Peggy threw a tape or some manner of audio medium into a fountain/water at one of the filmings. Obviously, I have no idea if that was related and/or if the salacious yarn about Tamra has any veracity to it but said dispute certainly would have made for a much more entertaining season than the footage that was aired. If the story was spiked, I imagine it had more to do with the Timmonses and/or recording consent laws. 

http://www.allaboutthetea.com/2017/04/26/tamra-judge-trying-to-block-secret-audio-of-blow-job-with-jeff-timmons/

 

http://www.allaboutthetea.com/2017/05/10/texts-messages-of-rhocs-tamra-judges-love-connection-with-jeff-timmons/

 

http://www.allaboutthetea.com/2017/05/22/tamra-judge-shuts-down-scandalous-blow-job-audio-in-season-12/

Had there been anything to this story, it would have been reported by countless other bloggers and by the tabloids! They were in a feeding frenzy for any dirt on her that year. LOL

ETA....And if it is indeed true, how nasty of Vicki to try and reveal this on the show, especially since it was before Tamra/Eddie got married. Vicki is sure set on destroying the others marriages just because Brooks dumped her.

Edited November 16, 2017 by WireWrap

[nyxeus]

13 hours ago, VedaPierce said:

For someone that hates being bossed around, kelly sure has no problem bossing her mother around. Wonder how it would fly in kelly-land if her mom started telling her that kelly parties too much and drinks too much and should stay home more. 

I think that Kelly doesn't like being bossed around by the other ladies because she is bossed around by her husband and was miserable with her marriage.  Maybe now that she is getting a divorce, she will calm down some.

[bravofan27]

Wait. Tamara gave a guy a blowjob in 2010? Wow. That's really amazing. So did I. 

Seriously though. Even if the story is true, who cares? The worse accusation would be, "You were dating Eddie and you gave a guy a blowjob." In all honesty, Eddie was probably giving a lot of blowjobs at that time as well. In any case, I do think Vicki is responsible for stirring the shit on this, and I think that the Ricky guy has the scoop since he was there, but I don't think it's really too out there.  Vicki and Ricky seem pretty jealous. Whatever! Besides, when has AUDIO of sex acts ever been a thing? Without video it's nothing, those sounds could be from anyone. 

Edited November 16, 2017 by bravofan27

[sarivon]

54 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Without a doubt, Tamra has made mistakes when it comes to Sydney, she should have kept her name off of the show and off her SM accounts. That said, there are 2 other siblings that have no problems with how Tamra parents them and that is important because that means that Sydney isn't being honest when it comes to Tamra. Tamra posting that picture on her SM pages was nothing IMO, especially since both Simon and Sidney posted that same one a day earlier on theirs and neither of theirs are private. To my way of thinking, they set her up posting it. One day, Sydney will realize that her father used her as a weapon against her mother, that his main use for her was to case her mother pain and she will regret her actions and he will be shut out in the cold by her. As for Tamra, when that day comes, and it will, she will welcome Sydney back in with open loving arms.

Had there been anything to this story, it would have been reported by countless other bloggers and by the tabloids! They were in a feeding frenzy for any dirt on her that year. LOL

ETA....And if it is indeed true, how nasty of Vicki to try and reveal this on the show, especially since it was before Tamra/Eddie got married. Vicki is sure set on destroying the others marriages just because Brooks dumped her.

Jeezus squeezus, Vicky isn't mentioned in any of those links. You should blame Vicky for global warming before blaming her for this. Tamra gave a guy a public blow and was busted. Serves her skank ass right---no wonder her ex and her kid can't stand her. Remember when Jeana listened to one of  Tamras BS apologies and said something like "I understand --- you can't help that you were raised white trash." I miss Jeana and her shade.

11 minutes ago, bravofan27 said:

Wait. Tamara gave a guy a blowjob in 2010? Wow. That's really amazing. So did I. 

 I do think Vicki is responsible for stirring the shit on this

First --- hope you enjoyed it.

Second---i do think they all stir shit. Tamra goes deeper and wallows in it.

[Jextella]

My money is on Vicki.  I think she has dirt on many of them.  She shares some but not all.

[zoeysmom]

7 minutes ago, sarivon said:

Jeezus squeezus, Vicky isn't mentioned in any of those links. You should blame Vicky for global warming before blaming her for this. Tamra gave a guy a public blow and was busted. Serves her skank ass right---no wonder her ex and her kid can't stand her. Remember when Jeana listened to one of  Tamras BS apologies and said something like "I understand --- you can't help that you were raised white trash." I miss Jeana and her shade.

First --- hope you enjoyed it.

Second---i do think they all stir shit. Tamra goes deeper and wallows in it.

I believe what the connection is that Vicki invited Ricky to her party and he seemed to be delighting in dishing dirt on Tamra and Eddie on camera.  Vicki made things worse by in her confessional saying she wanted to hear more.  IIRC Ricky wasn't invited to Tamra's baptism and vowed to destroy her.  It would seem that would be someone Vicki would steer clear of-instead she went out of her way to get him a filming opportunity.  Gretchen apparently was in on it as well.  Vicki has a fairly malicious side to her and I would agree Tamra is not a particularly good friend to anyone.  She displayed that once again this season with her digs at Shannon.  Vicki was aware of the fallout between Tamra and Ricky and she once again broke code by giving him the limelight.  

Vicki has to stop repeating rumors on or off camera.   If she screws up and does she needs to take responsibility for them. Her anger stems from the fact that Brooks was picked on and outed as a liar and she wants to hurt the other women and their husbands so she decided to embellish and spread the gossip.  How many times have we heard her say she has the goods on Shannon?  It is never attractive to blackmail.  Sadly, until Vicki realizes what made the others angry is she lied to them about being at Brooks' chemo (which never happened at City of Hope), she fabricated a story about Terry Dubrow sending a colleague to treat Brooks in the middle of the night.  Vicki is focused on the PET Scan and Brooks falsifying records to E! News.  She was in deep with Brooks and certainly enabled him in his cancer fantasy.  Vicki did promulgate the lie by presenting the PET Scan to Tamra who was last run in with Brooks was a screaming match. Vicki now blames the other women for not accepting Brooks word that Vicki wasn't in on the forged documents to E! news.  One he is a proven liar and two the forged documents were presented after the season ended and the Reunion had been filmed.

[WireWrap]

53 minutes ago, sarivon said:

Jeezus squeezus, Vicky isn't mentioned in any of those links. You should blame Vicky for global warming before blaming her for this. Tamra gave a guy a public blow and was busted. Serves her skank ass right---no wonder her ex and her kid can't stand her. Remember when Jeana listened to one of  Tamras BS apologies and said something like "I understand --- you can't help that you were raised white trash." I miss Jeana and her shade.

First --- hope you enjoyed it.

Second---i do think they all stir shit. Tamra goes deeper and wallows in it.

First, I wasn't the initial one that put it out there that Vicki tried to use this against Tamra this season on camera but I don't doubt she did. Second, I am sure the gas Vicki blows is helping to increase global warming! LOL Third, Vicki said that she was going to "punish" Tamra/Shannon for not "being friends with her" and has done some nasty rumor mongering to achieve that goal. Fourth, Jenna now sides with Tamra against Simon. LOL

[bravofan27]

Didn't Tamra herself say that Vicki started the rumors? At the candle party, she said the next day she got back, there was a story in the press and she thought Vicki was responsible. So given the story that was in the press, which was glossed over, is the blowjob she gave a boy band guy when she was single (ahem, dating), she herself said that she believed Vicki was responsible. In any case, it's clearly obvious it's Vicki. We all watched her plain as day orchestrate the telling of Eddie's make out session. 

[LIMOM]

18 hours ago, Jack Terrier said:

See and here's why I think the daughter is a spoiled brat.  I understand her need for privacy and she requested no pictures posted BUT that is your mother and she should be able to post a picture of a proud moment.  Other pictures were posted online of that day but the mother isn't allowed one picture?  My god, is this the world we live in?  I just defended Tamara.

Plus, she has no problem with Tamra paying for her college education. 

She reminds me of Brianna. She is here for the hand out and yet she is disloyal to her mother.

Yes, Tamra could abide by her daughters wish to keep her life totally private. However,  it is also thanks to her mother’s famewhoring ways that she will graduate without a huge student loan.

 

As far as the last episode, it was much like the rest of the season, boring, imo.

[Ubiquitous]

14 hours ago, Carolina Girl said:

Yeah, because if there's one thing missing from the national landscape, it's shady independent insurance agencies.

I would love to see her try to enter our state's insurance market and get busted by our fraud department.

 

9 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

This all happened in August of 2010?   The same year Tamra separated from Simon and he filed for divorce.  That former friend Ricky has really got it in for Tamra.  

I believe it has everything to do with BS.  I am not that fond of Tamara but I don't find Ricky all that believable.  As to the studio owner-she waits seven years to bust her former friend?  

Ah, so that's how Ricky, who was bad-mouthing Eddie to Vicki at that party, fits in!

[RHJunkie]

10 hours ago, WireWrap said:

Without a doubt, Tamra has made mistakes when it comes to Sydney, she should have kept her name off of the show and off her SM accounts. That said, there are 2 other siblings that have no problems with how Tamra parents them and that is important because that means that Sydney isn't being honest when it comes to Tamra. Tamra posting that picture on her SM pages was nothing IMO, especially since both Simon and Sidney posted that same one a day earlier on theirs and neither of theirs are private. To my way of thinking, they set her up posting it. One day, Sydney will realize that her father used her as a weapon against her mother, that his main use for her was to case her mother pain and she will regret her actions and he will be shut out in the cold by her. As for Tamra, when that day comes, and it will, she will welcome Sydney back in with open loving arms.

To some extent, Tamra's issues with Sydney is a case of history repeating itself. The details are different but the behaviours are the same. Tamra made a decision to choose sides when her parents split and it's taken a lot of time lost for Tamra to realize that she's only got one father and she wasted so many years of him being in her life because she chose it that way. Sydney is doing the same thing and despite the vendetta she has against her mother, maybe one day she'll realize just how similar she actually is to Tamra.

[nyxeus]

It shouldn't be that hard not to bring up Sidney Barney on camera.....according to Sidney, that is the only thing standing in the way of a relationship between Tamra and Sidney.  Tamra is shooting herself in the foot on that one.

[Jextella]

12 hours ago, sarivon said:

Jeezus squeezus, Vicky isn't mentioned in any of those links. You should blame Vicky for global warming before blaming her for this. Tamra gave a guy a public blow and was busted. Serves her skank ass right---no wonder her ex and her kid can't stand her. Remember when Jeana listened to one of  Tamras BS apologies and said something like "I understand --- you can't help that you were raised white trash." I miss Jeana and her shade.

First --- hope you enjoyed it.

Second---i do think they all stir shit. Tamra goes deeper and wallows in it.

Honestly, despite the Brooks' stuff, I trust Vicki waaaayyyy more than I trust Tamra.  Vicki can't help herself.  She blurts things out like a sheep.   Does she often suffer from poor judgment? Yes.  Does she suffer from worse judgment where men are concerned? Yes.  Did she turn a blind-eye or even perhaps conceal some shit where Brooks is concerned?  Yes. Did she lie about Brooks at one point?  Yes, but she owned up to it and apologized. 

Tamra is the shady-boots one on this show.   Vicki is merely a bleeting sheep.  That, to me, is her biggest challenge where the other wives are concerned.  She needs to stop repeating crap on TV.

I'd really like for Vicki to stay.  Shannon has clearly taken the popularity lead on the show but I can't see her forming any true relationships with any of the cast.  She's just in a different world than they are.  I don't want to tune in to forced relationships.   All the signs point to her leaving though, e.g. Jeff Lewis said it was her time (and Andy has said Jeff Lewis has really good judgment where the housewives are concerned), her Instagram account being made private, Brianna moving, many rumors, etc. 

Edited November 16, 2017 by Jextella

[LIMOM]

53 minutes ago, nyxeus said:

It shouldn't be that hard not to bring up Sidney Barney on camera.....according to Sidney, that is the only thing standing in the way of a relationship between Tamra and Sidney.  Tamra is shooting herself in the foot on that one.

Yes, it should not be hard, however it is not Sydney’s place to dictate her mother’s behaviors, imo.

Sydney is making a mistake and missing out by not being in her mother’s life.

If it is indeed Simon who insisted in having Tamra at Sydney’s graduation, I really doubt that it is a case of parental alienation.

Tamra not seeing her daughter graduates would have been the final fuck you, imo.

Sydney like many divorce kids has been hurt and is blaming Tamra for the demise of her parents marriage, imho.

I hope that she will realize that both her parents are probably much happier and better parents since they split.

It is a power trip, imo.

13 minutes ago, Jextella said:

Honestly, despite the Brooks' stuff, I trust Vicki waaaayyyy more than I trust Tamra.  Vicki can't help herself.  She blurts things out like a sheep.   Does she often suffer from poor judgment? Yes.  Does she suffer from worse judgment where men are concerned? Yes.  Did she turn a blind-eye or even perhaps conceal some shit where Brooks is concerned?  Yes. Did she lie about Brooks at one point?  Yes, but she owned up to it and apologized. 

Tamra is the shady-boots one on this show.   Vicki is merely a bleeting sheep.  That, to me, is her biggest challenge where the other wives are concerned.  She needs to stop repeating crap on TV.

Agreed. Vicki is too stupid to be manipulative therefore it is easier to trust her, imo.

Tamra is a master at hiding her hands, imo.

[Long Spot]

On 11/13/2017 at 7:51 PM, Martinigirl said:

How many mgs of xanax is Peggy taking? 

 

On 11/13/2017 at 7:55 PM, Chicklet said:

Peggy also has a vibe that maybe she IS on drugs and she only hears part of every conversation. I'm just going with how much she reminds of of an addict in my past. Too similar.

 

 

Anyone else catch Lydia encouraging Shannon to talk to Peggy with "She has, like, a way clearer mind right now."?

[SCS]

9 hours ago, LIMOM said:

Plus, she has no problem with Tamra paying for her college education. 

 

 

LIMOM, I often agree with you but this time I don’t. The idea that Tams is doing Syd a favor because she’s ostensibly agreed to pay for a college education actually suggests, IMO, that Tamra is doing exactly what a parent who has the financial resources should do: provide for the child that she claims to love and with whom she wants a good relationship get every advantage that will help later in life. Also, do we know if Simon has refused to pay anything towards his kid’s education or will he be helping, too, and it’s just not being mentioned?

Where is Syd going to school, has she said? Is she going Ivy League and paying full freight? Or is she going to JC for the first 2 years? Currently, Saddleback College in OC is $46/unit. Say she takes 12 units – that’s $552 per term. Add in books for $150 more (I’ve been out of uni for quite a while so I’m just guessing here - 3 books @ $50 per). These are numbers that Tamra, with her Bravo salary and gym income, should really be able to float, even without Simon’s help.

And, yes —I know there are parents who tell kids that they’re on their own at age 18 and parents who drop the ball on vital things like health and dental care and education, and parents who love their children and truly would like to assist but simply cannot do so.  But if parents have the ability and resources and desire to help their child(ren) succeed, funding an education isn’t a favor – it’s a bloody obligation and one of those things they signed up for when the rabbit died and they said "yay!"

And when they don’t – when they put emphasis on things like the OC lifestyle and BMWs for birthdays and plastic surgery rather than on education and secure homes 1 knock away from an eviction – well, see Curtin, Lynne, Raquel, Alexa.

Edited November 16, 2017 by SCS

[Jack Terrier]

20 hours ago, 918lux said:

For me, it all comes down to the fact that Tamra is the adult (at least legally).  She agreed that she wouldn't post anything on social media or talk about it on the show, but knowingly broke that promise by being filmed telling Shannon she was invited and having a moment with Ryan in the kitchen about it.  Then she posted a picture from the event.  What would have been wrong with just having the photo in a frame?  Why the need to put it out on social media?  Plenty of proud mothers are able to celebrate without putting it up on facebook or instagram.  She doesn't understand that her kid wanted (and she promised) privacy. 

Yes, while I understand that point of view I just don't agree with it.  This CHILD is not the boss of everyone and has been able to run roughshod over ADULT situations like it's her job.

I would normally stand up for the CHILD in this matter but something about the whole family bending over for Sidney is out of whack in my world.

Tamra was wrong to post the picture after agreeing to post nothing.  That is not OK.  It's the attitude of holding the family hostage because no one wants to explain to Sidney that she isn't a special snowflake that gets to dictate adult lives.

Really, I seriously can't believe I'm defending Tamra.  Make it stop!! :)

Edited November 16, 2017 by Jack Terrier

[SCS]

12 hours ago, WireWrap said:

Jenna now sides with Tamra against Simon. LOL

Not according to this WWHL clip LOL. Here, Jeana discusses T & B & the kids, and all she says is the kids should be with both parents and the current sitch is not a good thing and the whole group needs therapy. She then goes on to say that Tams should have been held under the water longer during her baptism LOL. But side with Tamra? Not even close LOL.

 

http://www.bravotv.com/watch-what-happens-live/season-12/episode-167/videos/jeana-on-tamra-and-simon

Edited November 16, 2017 by SCS

[mytmo]

Vicki selling Coto Insurance franchises?  Double check this Icki you're not fucking State Farm!  It's not an accomplishment to add your son to the Board.  It's called agency perpetuation. 

[notnowimbusy]

17 minutes ago, SCS said:

 

(I’ve been out of uni for quite a while so I’m just guessing here - 3 books @ $50 per).

Oh my, it has been awhile.  I was lucky if we could find used books for my son that were under $200 each.  When my daughter was in high school (years ago), along with tuition, we had to buy books (always made me crazy).   We averaged about $1,000 a year on textbooks, then had to buy other books for required reading.   

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I understand Sydney.   Besides the things she said went on at Tamra's house, she was being ridiculed at school for Tamra's antics (remember the bathtub scene with Eddie?).   Teenagers are automatically embarrassed by their parents, but Tamra had no filter.   Ok, don't quit the show, but keep your daughter's pictures, and your relationship with her out of the press, off the show.  Not too hard to do.    Talk about your other kids (I know they can't be shown on tv), but Tamra just can't help herself.  To me, if she truly wanted a relationship with her daughter, she would have shut it down.  I don't care what the press said, what dirt came out - just don't bring up her name or your relationship.    When Tamra was at Lydia's bible study thing, Tamra didn't have to go into her troubles with Sydney on camera - but she chose to make it part of her storyline.   

[SCS]

1 hour ago, notnowimbusy said:

Oh my, it has been awhile. 

 

A recent selfie, ;-D

 

[zoeysmom]

19 minutes ago, SCS said:

 

LIMOM, I often agree with you but this time I don’t. The idea that Tams is doing Syd a favor because she’s ostensibly agreed to pay for a college education suggests, IMO, that Tamra is doing exactly what a parent who has the financial resources should do: provide for the child that she claims to love and with whom she wants a good relationship get every advantage that will help later in life. Also, do we know if Simon has refused to pay anything towards his kid’s education or will he be helping, too, and it’s just not being mentioned?

Where is Syd going to school, has she said? Is she going Ivy League and paying full freight? Or is she going to JC for the first 2 years? Currently, Saddleback College in OC is $46/unit. Say she takes 12 units – that’s $552 per term. Add in books for $150 more (I’ve been out of uni for quite a while so I’m just guessing here - 3 books @ $50 per). These are numbers that Tamra, with her Bravo salary and gym income, should really be able to float, even without Simon’s help.

And, yes —I know there are parents who tell kids that they’re on their own at age 18 and parents who drop the ball on vital things like health and dental care and education, and parents who love their children and truly would like to assist but simply cannot do so.  But if parents have the ability and resources and desire to help their child(ren) succeed, funding an education isn’t a favor – it’s a bloody obligation and one of those things they signed up for when the rabbit died and they said "yay!"

And when they don’t – when they put emphasis on things like the OC lifestyle and BMWs for birthdays and plastic surgery rather than on education and secure homes 1 knock away from an eviction – well, see Curtin, Lynne, Raquel, Alexa.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-5056919/Tamra-Judge-updates-fans-estranged-daughter-Sidney.html

Here is a story-apparently Sydney attends college on the east coast:  

The idea the young woman was an honor student and her father posted photos with her seems to conflict with her objection to Tamra posting the same.  

It is Tamra's livelihood and Sydney should appreciate the fact her mother, who has no higher education was able to land a lucrative position.  Sydney is an adult and at some point she needs to act like one.  I supported the girl initially but I think she has taken this way too far.    

2 minutes ago, mytmo said:

Vicki selling Coto Insurance franchises?  Double check this Icki you're not fucking State Farm!  It's not an accomplishment to add your son to the Board.  It's called agency perpetuation. 

Exactly how many has she sold?  Right around zero.  I can't imagine anyone in insurance thinking it wise to hook up with Vicki.  SHe has been selling insurance and trying to market her agency for 13 years.  

[LIMOM]

1 hour ago, SCS said:

 

LIMOM, I often agree with you but this time I don’t. The idea that Tams is doing Syd a favor because she’s ostensibly agreed to pay for a college education suggests, IMO, that Tamra is doing exactly what a parent who has the financial resources should do: provide for the child that she claims to love and with whom she wants a good relationship get every advantage that will help later in life. Also, do we know if Simon has refused to pay anything towards his kid’s education or will he be helping, too, and it’s just not being mentioned?

Where is Syd going to school, has she said? Is she going Ivy League and paying full freight? Or is she going to JC for the first 2 years? Currently, Saddleback College in OC is $46/unit. Say she takes 12 units – that’s $552 per term. Add in books for $150 more (I’ve been out of uni for quite a while so I’m just guessing here - 3 books @ $50 per). These are numbers that Tamra, with her Bravo salary and gym income, should really be able to float, even without Simon’s help.

And, yes —I know there are parents who tell kids that they’re on their own at age 18 and parents who drop the ball on vital things like health and dental care and education, and parents who love their children and truly would like to assist but simply cannot do so.  But if parents have the ability and resources and desire to help their child(ren) succeed, funding an education isn’t a favor – it’s a bloody obligation and one of those things they signed up for when the rabbit died and they said "yay!"

And when they don’t – when they put emphasis on things like the OC lifestyle and BMWs for birthdays and plastic surgery rather than on education and secure homes 1 knock away from an eviction – well, see Curtin, Lynne, Raquel, Alexa.

Good point. She did not mention where she went to school. She did say that she is picking up the whole tap.(on Jeff Lewis’s radio show).

Look, Yes it is an obligation for a parent to provide for a child nevertheless it is also the child’s obligation to get real at times.

I feel that Sydney is a very conservative person and she might be embarrassed by her mother’s antics but I can’t get behind that bullshit of blackmailing Tamra. It is just misguided imo.

From what we have seen on the show, Tamra was a devoted mother/wife and then got on the show. She might not be mother Teresa but she seems to me to be a decent mother.

what is Sydney’s beef?

Whatever Tamra said about her kids was complimentary even when it comes to Ryan.

When she was discussing Sydney to Jeff, she gloated about her daughter and how proud she was of her grades and so forth.

imo, Sydney is hurt and punishing her mother unfairly.

[IKnowRight]

15 hours ago, SCS said:

 

LIMOM, I often agree with you but this time I don’t. The idea that Tams is doing Syd a favor because she’s ostensibly agreed to pay for a college education suggests, IMO, that Tamra is doing exactly what a parent who has the financial resources should do: provide for the child that she claims to love and with whom she wants a good relationship get every advantage that will help later in life. Also, do we know if Simon has refused to pay anything towards his kid’s education or will he be helping, too, and it’s just not being mentioned?

Where is Syd going to school, has she said? Is she going Ivy League and paying full freight? Or is she going to JC for the first 2 years? Currently, Saddleback College in OC is $46/unit. Say she takes 12 units – that’s $552 per term. Add in books for $150 more (I’ve been out of uni for quite a while so I’m just guessing here - 3 books @ $50 per). These are numbers that Tamra, with her Bravo salary and gym income, should really be able to float, even without Simon’s help.

And, yes —I know there are parents who tell kids that they’re on their own at age 18 and parents who drop the ball on vital things like health and dental care and education, and parents who love their children and truly would like to assist but simply cannot do so.  But if parents have the ability and resources and desire to help their child(ren) succeed, funding an education isn’t a favor – it’s a bloody obligation and one of those things they signed up for when the rabbit died and they said "yay!"

And when they don’t – when they put emphasis on things like the OC lifestyle and BMWs for birthdays and plastic surgery rather than on education and secure homes 1 knock away from an eviction – well, see Curtin, Lynne, Raquel, Alexa.

I understand and see your points.  

My husband and I have the means so, yes, we offered to pay all the tuition/room/board/expenses/even car/gas while our kids were in college.  Our last one is a senior in college and we are going to get a huge raise next year...and will have it all paid off.

With that said, we still expected them to work full time all summer/and at least part time during classes/internships. We had other expectations in return, for instance volunteer work and helping with chores/grandparents when they were home.  They are privileged and need to acknowledge their fortune and take on other responsibility to grow up.

 

However, while I also feel it is our responsibility to help because we can, I don't feel we OWE them anything.  We encouraged secondary education and the importance of learning marketable skills, but there's nothing wrong with expecting them to pay for it themselves, with/without help, partially pay or let them at least still have a loan or two to budget for themselves after they graduate.  For instance, they have no "right" to an expensive college, they could attend state or apprentice in the trades and live at home if feasible.  (FYI I'm a former educator/classroom teacher)

 

It's up to the parent, not the child who is now an 18 year old adult!  I remember hearing a story about a spoiled brat that sued her parents, demanding they continue to pay for private school and pay for an expensive college in full.  I think the parents were divorcing or something like that...IMO, that's wrong.  Terrible behavior!  I believe Sydney (while I empathize with her embarrassment, her mom is Tamra after all) is behaving like a jerk.  I'm hoping that it's not true that Simon made this worse and that it was him that wanted Tamra to attend the graduation.  When it comes to his son, he chose to live full time with Tamra.  Hmmm....The younger daughter seems to be doing well with both parents, but she isn't a full blown teen yet and may still be unaware of Tamra/Simons dysfunctional realty TV embarrassment.  I truly hope Tamra/Sophie weather the teen storm together.

 

My dad was stuck being shot at as an 18 year old in WW2.  He still made sure to get an education on his own when he returned here after serving in the war.  Kids are coddled now.  I still think mine are, even though we helped them out and more by choice  I don't think it does them any favors to allow their demanding  behavior because they feel it is their "right" that's some BS.  It's also why so many of them are the inmates running the asylum and dictating TO college administrators instead of the other way around!

Edited November 17, 2017 by IKnowRight

[SCS]

1 hour ago, zoeysmom said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-5056919/Tamra-Judge-updates-fans-estranged-daughter-Sidney.html

Here is a story-apparently Sydney attends college on the east coast:  

The idea the young woman was an honor student and her father posted photos with her seems to conflict with her objection to Tamra posting the same.  

It is Tamra's livelihood and Sydney should appreciate the fact her mother, who has no higher education was able to land a lucrative position.  Sydney is an adult and at some point she needs to act like one.  I supported the girl initially but I think she has taken this way too far.    

 

 

Thanks for the update. OK, so she's on the east coast. Tams should either pay the whole load or whatever portion she feels is fair and can afford; Syd can investigate a full or work scholarship or, if necessary, a GSL, to cover the tuition her mother can't or won't pay. 

First bold: Sydney has a good relationship with her father not with her mother and she's going to view their actions through that lens. Tams refuses to respect her daughter's requests, which means her daughter will most likely continue with her anger and resentment.

Second bold: yes it is lucrative, especially when acting out and creating drama usually means an invite back. I'm not sure Tams' lack of higher education matters, as many people without university experience are soft-spoken, kind and giving souls, but rather that, at her core, Tams appears to be a shrewish vulgarian. IMO

[IKnowRight]

6 minutes ago, IKnowRight said:

 

Edited November 16, 2017 by IKnowRight
Double post

[SCS]

1 hour ago, IKnowRight said:

I understand and see your points.  

My husband and I have the means so, yes, we offered to pay all the tuition/room/board/expenses/even car/gas while our kids were in college.  Our last one is a senior in college and we are going to get a huge raise next year...and will have it all payed off.

With that said, we still expected them to work full time all summer/and at least part time during classes/internships. We had other expectations in return, for instance volunteer work and helping with chores/grandparents when they were home.  They are privileged and need to acknowledge their fortune and take on other responsibility to grow up.

 

However, while I also feel it is our responsibility to help because we can, I don't feel we OWE them anything.  We encouraged secondary education and the importance of learning marketable skills, but there's is nothing wrong with expecting them to pay for it themselves, with/without  help, partially pay or let them at least still have a loan or two to budget for themselves after they graduate.  For instance, they have no "right" to an expensive college, they could attend state or apprentice in the trades and live at home if feasible.  (FYI I'm a former educator/classroom teacher)

Totally agree.

 

Quote

It's up to the parent, not the child who is now an 18 year old adult!  I remember hearing a story about a spoiled brat that sued her parents, demanding they continue to pay for private school and pay for an expensive college in full.  I think the parents were divorcing or something like that...IMO, that's wrong.  Terrible behavior! 

 

Again agree and it plays to what I said upthread about the Curtins who didn't have a pot in which to piss but bought the older girl a (used) BMW and a nose job because "she really wants it" (this was the daughter  who had ended up in some high school remedial program for troublemakers). And told their girls they could be reality stars like the kids on that MTV show because "they were prettier". O and a great TV moment: laughed when Raquel and Alexis got into the booze in the limo on the way to the finale party. Those were the classic OC hi-jinx.

 

Quote

My dad was stuck being shot at as an 18 year old in WW2.  He still made sure to get an education on his own when he returned here after serving in the war.  Kids are coddled now.  I still think mine are, even though we helped them out and more by choice  I don't think it does them and favors to allow their BS behavior because they feel it is their "right" that's some BS.  It's also why so many of them are not the inmates running the asylum and dictating TO college administrators instead of the other way around!

Agree yet again-- the kids, too, have accountability to do well with what is given them and not automatically expect it. But in the case of Tams and Sydney, Tams seemingly offered to pay for her daughter's education, a move that should come with no conditions attached other than Syd do best.

Edited November 16, 2017 by SCS
things weren't making sense

[notnowimbusy]

I think it boils down to sometimes mothers/daughters sons/fathers, pick a combination, fall out for all number of reasons.  All of the details aren't known.   Maybe one day Sydney will want to have some sort of relationship, maybe not.  Both sides are viewing this through their own experience, and have their reasons for their actions.  Due to circumstances, almost 20 years ago, I distanced myself from my own mother.  It wasn't done hastily, but it's what I felt I had to do.   Sure there are times when  it would be nice to see her/talk to her, but doing that would only draw me back into the drama that was the reason I said enough.    She also seems fine with it.  I do hear through the grapevine that she blames me, makes me the bad guy, etc.  But, my phone#, email haven't changed in all these years, and I haven't heard a word from her.    Simon is a creep, no doubt, but maybe he gave Sydney the support she needed to find her voice, and speak up to Tamra. 

[WireWrap]

2 hours ago, SCS said:

Not according to this WWHL clip LOL. Here, Jeana discusses T & B & the kids, and all she says is the kids should be with both parents and the current sitch is not a good thing and the whole group needs therapy. She then goes on to say that Tams should have been held under the water longer during her baptism LOL. But side with Tamra? Not even close LOL.

 

http://www.bravotv.com/watch-what-happens-live/season-12/episode-167/videos/jeana-on-tamra-and-simon

Surprise, surprise, surprise (not really), Jenna is singing another tune! Just a year earlier she was siding with Tamra. LOL

[SCS]

1 hour ago, WireWrap said:

Surprise, surprise, surprise (not really), Jenna is singing another tune! Just a year earlier she was siding with Tamra. LOL

A year earlier than what -- the above Bravo clip? So....?

Edited November 16, 2017 by SCS
thought I better be real specific

[ghoulina]

2 hours ago, notnowimbusy said:

guess I'm in the minority here, but I understand Sydney.   Besides the things she said went on at Tamra's house, she was being ridiculed at school for Tamra's antics (remember the bathtub scene with Eddie?).   Teenagers are automatically embarrassed by their parents, but Tamra had no filter.   Ok, don't quit the show, but keep your daughter's pictures, and your relationship with her out of the press, off the show.  Not too hard to do.    Talk about your other kids (I know they can't be shown on tv), but Tamra just can't help herself.  To me, if she truly wanted a relationship with her daughter, she would have shut it down.  I don't care what the press said, what dirt came out - just don't bring up her name or your relationship.    When Tamra was at Lydia's bible study thing, Tamra didn't have to go into her troubles with Sydney on camera - but she chose to make it part of her storyline.   

I completely agree. I don't look at it as Sydney bossing her mom around. I look at it as her establishing healthy boundaries. If something I was doing was causing my child serious distress, I would put them first. If Tamra felt it was imperative to stay on the show, she could have dialed things back way more and honored her daughter's wishes. It doesn't seem that hard. Instead, she's using the situation for sympathy and a storyline, which is just tacky as hell. 

[IKnowRight]

12 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Surprise, surprise, surprise (not really), Jenna is singing another tune! Just a year earlier she was siding with Tamra. LOL

Shocker!  These wives keep changing with the wind!

I do think Jeana was trying to be neutral in this clip overall.  She pointed fingers at both Simon/Tamra.  She clarified a he said/she said with Vicki.  The real issue is that Vicki/Tamra always have a different interpretation of events.  Is the sky blue/grass green?  Do Vicki/Tamra rewrite history? Almost every time...even when they are getting along.

[Almost 3000]

14 hours ago, WireWrap said:

Fourth, Jenna now sides with Tamra against Simon.

When did this happen? thx

[WireWrap]

13 minutes ago, Almost 3000 said:

When did this happen? thx

It happened after Tamra apologized to Jenna for throwing wine on her. They sat/talked and Jenna said that she now believed Tamra's side of the divorce. Of course, it could have been that Jenna was just saying that in hopes of getting her orange back but she did say that she now believed Tamra.

[chenoa333]

I just noticed the title of this thread is:

Season 12 Episode 19.

Did Bravo really give us 19 episodes of RHOC this season or am I misinterpreting something?

 I guess RHOBH is next on the agenda of Ho wives? 

[zoeysmom]

11 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

It happened after Tamra apologized to Jenna for throwing wine on her. They sat/talked and Jenna said that she now believed Tamra's side of the divorce. Of course, it could have been that Jenna was just saying that in hopes of getting her orange back but she did say that she now believed Tamra.

Jeanna did express her thoughts regarding the rift between Tamra and her daughter.  My takeaway was Jeanna felt as if Simon should be doing everything he could to foster the relationship between mother and daughter.  I am sure since the major divide between Tamra and Vicki she has been less supportive.  I always get the impression Jeana is on the side of a cohesive divorce.  Something that was lost on Tamra initially.

[chenoa333]

I just googled Jeff Timmons (the boy band man that Tamra allegedly was with) to see what he looks like....I must say, I would not kick him out of my bed EVER. Well, at least not for a year or so!

[Ubiquitous]

3 hours ago, mytmo said:

Vicki selling Coto Insurance franchises?  Double check this Icki you're not fucking State Farm!  It's not an accomplishment to add your son to the Board.  It's called agency perpetuation. 

I think it's called "nepotism".

[sarivon]

58 minutes ago, Almost 3000 said:

When did this happen? thx

It happened around the same time Jeans accepted Tamras apology and then tossed shade on Tamra's trashy origins. Read up ^^ I posted about it last night.

1 hour ago, SCS said:

A year earlier than what -- the above Bravo clip? So....?

Don't try to make sense out of it SCS, just roll with it. Easier.

[Should Be Working]

5 hours ago, Jextella said:

Honestly, despite the Brooks' stuff, I trust Vicki waaaayyyy more than I trust Tamra.  Vicki can't help herself.  She blurts things out like a sheep.   Does she often suffer from poor judgment? Yes.  Does she suffer from worse judgment where men are concerned? Yes.  Did she turn a blind-eye or even perhaps conceal some shit where Brooks is concerned?  Yes. Did she lie about Brooks at one point?  Yes, but she owned up to it and apologized. 

Tamra is the shady-boots one on this show.   Vicki is merely a bleeting sheep.  That, to me, is her biggest challenge where the other wives are concerned.  She needs to stop repeating crap on TV.

I'd really like for Vicki to stay.  Shannon has clearly taken the popularity lead on the show but I can't see her forming any true relationships with any of the cast.  She's just in a different world than they are.  I don't want to tune in to forced relationships.   All the signs point to her leaving though, e.g. Jeff Lewis said it was her time (and Andy has said Jeff Lewis has really good judgment where the housewives are concerned), her Instagram account being made private, Brianna moving, many rumors, etc. 

I think they're both despicable women. There is no need to elevate one in order to properly denigrate the other one.

Tamra can be a mean, hurtful person. The time she purposefully got Gretchen drunk as a gift for her crazy horny son. Howshe mercilessly ripped Alexis apart at her Cut Fitness grand opening party for no good cause other than the damage she inflicted and the sadistic satisfaction of it all. And many others. She's a self-taught, street smart scrapper who could clearly see her viewer popularity declining and decided to create a new and nicer Tamra. That's when she got religion. And broke with Vicki. Not because she actually underwent a spiritual conversion on the road to Damascus by the Pacific or was ethically repulsed by Vicki's cancergate shenanigans, but because she believed the mere appearance of those beliefs would set her straight in the eyes of viewers. But that sobbing scene in Vicki's lap in Iceland goes to show that, with a few inhibitions removed (liquor in this case), she's easily willing to return to and beg forgiveness from the Dark One. If Eddie weren't around to support her and serve as her conscience, she'd still be the same hellcat she was five years ago, without any pretense to the contrary.

Vicki has done far far worse than simply turn a blind eye to or conceal Brooks' misdeeds and occasionally repeat some gossip crap about the other housewives. She fell in love with a psychopathic conman and woman abuser, and she'd still toss good old Steve to the curb if she could have him back in her life. Many of us fall in love with the wrong person or a bad person from time to time, often against our own better judgement. But there comes a crucial tipping point, where the sheer magnitude and volume of the evil things done by that lover are so massive and horrendous that any chemical attractions are totally negated and wiped clean. For that to happen, you need to have empathy for the victims. She is not simply blind or weak or simple minded. She was an active co-conspirator with Brooks and is still active in her own ongoing schemes to destroy other people. She doesn't deserve anyone's trust or support.

[WireWrap]

23 minutes ago, Should Be Working said:

I think they're both despicable women. There is no need to elevate one in order to properly denigrate the other one.

Tamra can be a mean, hurtful person. The time she purposefully got Gretchen drunk as a gift for her crazy horny son. Howshe mercilessly ripped Alexis apart at her Cut Fitness grand opening party for no good cause other than the damage she inflicted and the sadistic satisfaction of it all. And many others. She's a self-taught, street smart scrapper who could clearly see her viewer popularity declining and decided to create a new and nicer Tamra. That's when she got religion. And broke with Vicki. Not because she actually underwent a spiritual conversion on the road to Damascus by the Pacific or was ethically repulsed by Vicki's cancergate shenanigans, but because she believed the mere appearance of those beliefs would set her straight in the eyes of viewers. But that sobbing scene in Vicki's lap in Iceland goes to show that, with a few inhibitions removed (liquor in this case), she's easily willing to return to and beg forgiveness from the Dark One. If Eddie weren't around to support her and serve as her conscience, she'd still be the same hellcat she was five years ago, without any pretense to the contrary.

Vicki has done far far worse than simply turn a blind eye to or conceal Brooks' misdeeds and occasionally repeat some gossip crap about the other housewives. She fell in love with a psychopathic conman and woman abuser, and she'd still toss good old Steve to the curb if she could have him back in her life. Many of us fall in love with the wrong person or a bad person from time to time, often against our own better judgement. But there comes a crucial tipping point, where the sheer magnitude and volume of the evil things done by that lover are so massive and horrendous that any chemical attractions are totally negated and wiped clean. For that to happen, you need to have empathy for the victims. She is not simply blind or weak or simple minded. She was an active co-conspirator with Brooks and is still active in her own ongoing schemes to destroy other people. She doesn't deserve anyone's trust or support.

The difference between Vicki and Tamra is......Tamra shows you the knife she carries to stab people with. She will actually play with it in front of you before and as she stabs you. Vicki on the other hand, tells you she "hates" knives while she carries one in each pocket, her purse and under her hair and she arms her "friends" with knives to help her take you out but you never see the knives even after she stabs you because she hides her hands behind her back and says that she gave the others knives in private for their private use only. LOL

[bravofan27]

I sort of think Tamra got played by Sydney and Simon. They cozied up to her and made friends with her before the graduation, had her attend the graduation, probably right around the same time they talked to her about college. Tamra agreed to pay Sydney's tuition. After that, Sydney stopped talking to her again. Granted, Tamra posted a super bitter post on Twitter, which was super petty and makes her look like she's saying Sydney owes her something. I don't tihnk that relationship is going to get better anytime soon, and it seems like Tamra is starting to kind of hate her and publicly bash her. Bad bad decision. 

Sydney was mad she posted the pics because she posted them on her social media page that has a million followers and she knew it would be picked up by the press. I don't think Sydney posted her pics to as wide of an audience, and did not expect it to be picked up by the press.  

Edited November 17, 2017 by bravofan27

[LIMOM]

14 hours ago, WireWrap said:

Surprise, surprise, surprise (not really), Jenna is singing another tune! Just a year earlier she was siding with Tamra. LOL

I don’t think that Jeanna ever sided with Tamra. Since, Tamra filed for her divorce she supported Simon.

this does not surprise me at all as Jeanna had a tumultuous relationship with Tamra and is strongly male identified.

I wish they would bring jeanna back and remove Vicki. Her kids are grown, and it would be nice to catch up and see what is going on with their lives.

[LIMOM]

7 hours ago, bravofan27 said:

I sort of think Tamra got played by Sydney and Simon. They cozied up to her and made friends with her before the graduation, had her attend the graduation, probably right around the same time they talked to her about college. Tamra agreed to pay Sydney's tuition. After that, Sydney stopped talking to her again. Granted, Tamra posted a super bitter post on Twitter, which was super petty and makes her look like she's saying Sydney owes her something. I don't tihnk that relationship is going to get better anytime soon, and it seems like Tamra is starting to kind of hate her and publicly bash her. Bad bad decision. 

Sydney was mad she posted the pics because she posted them on her social media page that has a million followers and she knew it would be picked up by the press. I don't think Sydney posted her pics to as wide of an audience, and did not expect it to be picked up by the press.  

From the old article, Sydney said that her mother had no food in the house and was not very nurturing and was self involved.

I think that they have opposite personalities and do not gel. 

It sounds to me, that Sidney needs more attention than Tamra is willing to give her.

as far as posting her picture, she looks like dozen of other kids in my son’s high school and I would have a hard time picking her up out of a line up. Lol. 

I hope that they can reconcile at one point as it sucks to go thru life without maternal support and guidance, imo.

[zoeysmom]

Here is what Simon posted:  

 

 

Very proud of my daughter. She received The GPA, AP classes, language, etc. Awards.

So this was okay?  As if the gossip sites don't check Simon's twitter account.  

[Ubiquitous]

Wow, Simon looks different from last time he was on this show!

 

I just realized they didn't say anything about Ryan, Tamra's son, at the end of this ep.

[abc123baby]

I believe Kelly's issues with Micheal because I see flashes of his behavior, he isn't on camera much, and he is good to keep it off camera.  She had previously filed for divorce and there was a psychological study done on him, this was discussed on the show.  That was all done pre-show and so I think the evaluation is an accurate representation of his personality.  A lot of her anger and behaviors is due to dealing with her home life, and there has been no sex or intimacy in a long time.  She is lonely, hurt, isolated and there is likely (based on the evaluation and what she has hinted) lots of emotional abuse.  

Edited November 17, 2017 by abc123baby
typo

[chenoa333]

16 hours ago, Should Be Working said:

I think they're both despicable women. There is no need to elevate one in order to properly denigrate the other one.

Tamra can be a mean, hurtful person. The time she purposefully got Gretchen drunk as a gift for her crazy horny son. Howshe mercilessly ripped Alexis apart at her Cut Fitness grand opening party for no good cause other than the damage she inflicted and the sadistic satisfaction of it all. And many others. She's a self-taught, street smart scrapper who could clearly see her viewer popularity declining and decided to create a new and nicer Tamra. That's when she got religion. And broke with Vicki. Not because she actually underwent a spiritual conversion on the road to Damascus by the Pacific or was ethically repulsed by Vicki's cancergate shenanigans, but because she believed the mere appearance of those beliefs would set her straight in the eyes of viewers. But that sobbing scene in Vicki's lap in Iceland goes to show that, with a few inhibitions removed (liquor in this case), she's easily willing to return to and beg forgiveness from the Dark One. If Eddie weren't around to support her and serve as her conscience, she'd still be the same hellcat she was five years ago, without any pretense to the contrary.

Vicki has done far far worse than simply turn a blind eye to or conceal Brooks' misdeeds and occasionally repeat some gossip crap about the other housewives. She fell in love with a psychopathic conman and woman abuser, and she'd still toss good old Steve to the curb if she could have him back in her life. Many of us fall in love with the wrong person or a bad person from time to time, often against our own better judgement. But there comes a crucial tipping point, where the sheer magnitude and volume of the evil things done by that lover are so massive and horrendous that any chemical attractions are totally negated and wiped clean. For that to happen, you need to have empathy for the victims. She is not simply blind or weak or simple minded. She was an active co-conspirator with Brooks and is still active in her own ongoing schemes to destroy other people. She doesn't deserve anyone's trust or support.

So very true...every word you stated about Tamra. I still hope someone on this show will call out Tamra on her fakeness and back stabbing.