S07.E06: Wake Up Call

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Feeling like a third wheel as Henry and Cinderella's relationship strengthens, Regina is surprised to find herself needed by Drizella, who is searching for magic. But when a brutal truth is revealed, it could lead Drizella down a dangerous path. In Hyperion Heights, Roni seeks Weaver's help in finding answers, and Tilly offers Rogers some intriguing advice concerning Eloise Gardener.

 

[KingOfHearts]

So we finally get a Regina centric where she isn't moaning and groaning about her evil past, and it's this cesspool of stupidity.

* Victoria photoshops a picture of Roni and Henry together, and Roni's first instinct is to grab a bat? What?
* Henry keeps his tools in a spotless Tron lunchbox. Okay then.
* "Believing the best in someone isn't stupid." Shut up, Henry. Your grandmother believed the best in Regina and her kingdom got cursed.
* Regina officially held the idiot ball in this episode. Drizella tried to kill Henry, so she decides to teach her magic? You don't arm the person you're fighting against in a resistance. Even if she thought Drizella could be redeemed, she doesn't have to teach her magic to make that happen. Not to mention she mentioned the Dark Curse to someone hellbent on revenge. Good job.
* Ivy/Drizella has really hijacked the show. She reminds me a lot of S1 Regina, so much that I really wish she was her daughter. It's uncanny how similar they are both in personality and looks. 
* My hope is that the curse breaks and Jacinda "tragically" dies. I'm totally going to be cheering on whatever Roni does to keep Henry and Jacinda separated.
* I'll admit it - Weaver making a deal with Roni in typical Rumple fashion was a little refreshing. In a season where most of the new stuff sucks, any callback is appreciated.
* There's almost no difference between Roni and Awake!Regina. It's not a game changer in the slightest.

Still enamored with Ivy as a character, but she's only decent in a lineup of atrociousness. A diamond in the rough where there used to be many shinier diamonds.

Edited November 11, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Writing Wrongs]

Wow. Crickets in here.

So we know who cast the curse. Drizella is the best thing about this show.

Where David and Emma had a nice father/daughter feeling to them, Regina and Henry just feel...awkward.

[hockeycat400]

So...let me get this straight.  Even though Captain Swan were true love, and had a happy ending, yada yada yada...they never had a proper "true love's kiss" on the show.   However....Henry and Jacinderella are going to have one, and they have absolutely zero chemistry?!   I'm calling shenanigans on that.

[Rumsy4]

I had enough with all the Regina was great mother whitewashing. Yuck. And Henry using that Tron lunchbox from when he was 10 to store his tools is just soooo...weird. What fond memories he must have of the days when Regina used to gaslight him and make him think he was crazy! What next? Stashing away his mother's arm as a good luck charm?

"Oh, when will we find what Ivy did to make the Curse unbreakable?" Who cares?!

The MacCutcheon Whiskey has way past outlived its LOST callback days. Please retire it forever!!

On the one positive note: I squeed when Alice had Rogers push her in a wheelchair (pram?). If she is not his long lost daughter, I will riot. 

Edited November 11, 2017 by Rumsy4

[cappoe]

FUCK THIS SHOW! SERIOUSLY FUCK IT!

REALLY REALLY THE FIRST PERSON TO LOVE HENRY WAS REGINA!? YOU DEVOTED FUCKING ARCS TO SHOW HOW MUCH EMMA LOVED HENRY. HOW SHE GAVE HIM UP TO GIVE HIM HIS BEST CHANCE AND HOW HE UNDERSTOOD THAT AND TO SHOW HOW MUCH SHE LOVED HIM FROM THE START!

AND THIS IS THE SHIT YOU PULL!?

FUCK THESE WRITERS AND FUCK THIS SHOW!

[CCTC]

15 minutes ago, hockeycat400 said:

Even though Captain Swan were true love, and had a happy ending, yada yada yada...they never had a proper "true love's kiss" on the show

The True Love's Kiss might have lost a little of its luster when Zelina and Hades had one.  I am not sure Dorothy and Red helped the legend of the true love's kiss either, since I am not even sure they would have known each other's last name at the time it happened so early for them.

It is odd that one of the main couples for seasons 3.5 to 6 who had a lot of magic induced trauma, never had a true love kiss.

I only caught the last few minutes of the show, and am not sure I am going to catch the episode, but they are really going to pile on how noble and long-suffering Regina is aren't they?

Spoiler

I am sure once Zelina returms, Regina will also bestowing her wisdom and pep talks to help her as well.

 

Lana is a decent actress, and Roni can be likable, but I think they are going to end up overdoing how wonderful she is which ultimately does not make for an interesting character.

Edited November 11, 2017 by CCTC

[Writing Wrongs]

Henry's always been confused with his feelings about Regina. He spent the whole first season hating her and telling her she was evil, to completely flip the second season.

[CCTC]

3 minutes ago, cappoe said:

REALLY REALLY THE FIRST PERSON TO LOVE HENRY WAS REGINA!?

Now I really am not tempted to Hulu the whole episode.  They just completely ignore how rocky Henry and Regina's relationship was the first 1.5 years of the show.  Also, Henry and Emma clicked right away.  Maybe they showed more of that this episode, but I have not seen that with Henry and Lucy at all.

[Lady Calypso]

Drizella is seriously awesome. I don't really care what this "bad thing" that will happen if the curse is broken. Obviously, Regina contributed to it somehow. If it's not killing off Jacinda, I don't care. 

The rest of the episode? Not so great. I've come to accept that Regina is "redeemed", even if it was badly. She's one of the reasons I quit sometime in season 4. I just wish we'd be reminded of all the awful things Regina did. Did she love Henry? Probably. Was she the first to love Henry? Eh, well I think Emma loved Henry enough to give him up, but I guess we're supposed to believe that Regina had this deep love for Henry all along. But pretending that Emma was just this random woman all because JMo isn't part of the show anymore is just stupid.

I rolled my eyes at Roni telling Henry to be "charming". One of the callbacks/inside jokes that fell flat.

Yeah, don't teach Drizella magic. Regina, you're not this wise owl who people will listen to. Clearly, as Drizella did exactly what Regina did with the Charmings. I did laugh that all Victoria did this episode was whine and stand around uselessly. 

Lucy got to pop in for three scenes total to fulfill her "The curse is real" paragraph before disappearing again. Also, did they basically say that Lucy technically still didn't have her own memories and only is believing that Henry's book is real, or was she too young to remember? I still don't understand what Lucy actually knows.

So, I'm praying that, with the negative reception on Jacinda, this True Love's Kiss is actually vague enough where, when it happens, it just doesn't work, proving them to not be True Love. Or, if it does work because they can't write themselves out of that corner, Jacinda promptly dies. 

So, I'm willing to bet locked up witch is going to somehow be the Bigger Bad over Drizella. 

Yawn on Hook. As a non-Hook fan, I couldn't care less about his journey to find missing daughter. Alice, on the other hand, is pretty great still. 

Rumple-as-Weaver is kind of interesting again. It's fun to get back to his shadiness. Robert always looks like he's having some fun with playing with the audience in regards to his character.

[Rumsy4]

Henry was always a little shit. He doesn't give a flip about Emma.

[mtlchick]

Drizella is one straight up bitch and suddenly sparked what minor interest I have left in this show. 

[KAOS Agent]

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

Ivy/Drizella has really hijacked the show. She reminds me a lot of S1 Regina, so much that I really wish she was her daughter. It's uncanny how similar they are both in personality and looks. 

Could it be because she is essentially the same character? Here's another piece from the interview with Adelaide Kane:

EW: What do you think she ultimately wants?
AK: I think she thinks that she wants vengeance against her mother for not loving her. I think that’s ultimately what she thinks she wants, and then I think what she really wants is to be loved and to be happy and she’s going about it the wrong way. That’s the example she’s grown up with. That’s all she knows. It’s the only word she knows how to say. She’s never been shown anything different, so she doesn’t know any other way to go about it.

If you didn't know the "she" in this question was referring to Ivy, which Once character would you immediately assume this was about?

[Worsel]

I liked this episode, it was certainly better than last week, although admittedly the bar was so low it was practically underground.  I am still enjoying Ivy and her psychopathic behavior, and it was predictable that Regina because of her dysfunctional relationship with her own mother would make a poor choice in trying to help her.  There was very little Jacinda which made me happy.  I really liked Weaver/Rumple making deals again.  Hook's storyline is less interesting so far but I am looking forward to see how it fits in with the rest of the stories.  

On a shallower note:  Loved Regina's EF costume, but hated the high rise "mom" jeans and tank top in Hyperion Heights.  Lana is so beautiful despite the bad clothing, but I still wish they would ease up on the retro 80's look for her.

[VoicePlaya]

1 hour ago, cappoe said:

REALLY REALLY THE FIRST PERSON TO LOVE HENRY WAS REGINA!?

I wanted to throw something at the TV when Henry said that. In case we somehow hadn't already gotten the message that Henry prefers Regina to Emma, I guess they really wanted to make that clear. The show acting like Regina is a great mother is getting on my nerves. They're also trying too hard to make her into Emma. Sorry show, Regina will never be like Emma.

Honestly, this episode made me happier that Emma is happy in Storybrooke with Killian and having (or has already had, who knows with this timeline) a child who she won't have to share with Regina and who will actually love her. She's better off without Henry, if that's how he really feels. Geez. I miss season 1 Henry. He saw Regina for who she really was. It's been downhill ever since. 

Meanwhile, Regina was sure holding the idiot ball tonight, wasn't she? 

Ivy continues to be a bright spot.

Rogers pushing Tilly in the wheelchair was cute, so that's something. 

Edited November 11, 2017 by VoicePlaya

[Terrafamilia]

Unless Regina had been drilling Drizella for weeks and weeks Drizella must have been one heck of a student, not to mention having a boatload of natural talent.

Anyway, even if Ivy/Drizella is evil I still ship her with Henry.

[Watt]

Staying for Ivy and Tilly for now. Can't wait to see what they do with Zelena and Rumple, who I'm sure at this point knows who he is, right?

Drizella is damn deranged. I love it.

[KingOfHearts]

56 minutes ago, KAOS Agent said:

Could it be because she is essentially the same character? Here's another piece from the interview with Adelaide Kane:

EW: What do you think she ultimately wants?
AK: I think she thinks that she wants vengeance against her mother for not loving her. I think that’s ultimately what she thinks she wants, and then I think what she really wants is to be loved and to be happy and she’s going about it the wrong way. That’s the example she’s grown up with. That’s all she knows. It’s the only word she knows how to say. She’s never been shown anything different, so she doesn’t know any other way to go about it.

If you didn't know the "she" in this question was referring to Ivy, which Once character would you immediately assume this was about?

Yet the show is much more upfront about Drizella's dynamic with her mother than it was with Cora. Drizella is a step better than Regina since she's actually blaming the correct person. She's not trying to kill Anastasia or Jacinda. She's going after the woman who has abused her over the years, not that it's right. She's the only person on this show with believable feelings and motivations. Anyone would hate to be Tremaine's daughter. Being denied your parent's approval is relatable. Of the course the murder isn't, but it makes more sense than Regina offing random jesters or slaughtering villages. Let's be real - Drizella is just a better version of her. It echoes the character Regina used to be before 2B, and what she should have been.

I'm so thankful Victoria was a false Big Bad. She couldn't carry the role at all.

Quote

Hook's storyline is less interesting so far but I am looking forward to see how it fits in with the rest of the stories. 

Rogers' subplot is a little hard to follow, and frankly kind of generic. Here's this random long lost daughter to give him something to do. The writers are basically saying, "Here, boy! Go get the stick!"

Quote

Drizella is one straight up bitch and suddenly sparked what minor interest I have left in this show. 

This describes my feelings perfectly.

I'm a little disappointed Tiana's actress got promoted to regular and was absent for the entire episode. I'll take her over Jacinda any day of the week.

Edited November 11, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[ParadoxLost]

After all these years, I still find it weird that Regina gets to change her wardrobe when no one else does.

Drizella was pretty impressive in the scene where she reveals she turned her heart dark. 

It was a nice nod that Rumple is still making deals.

Beyond that I found it really hard to get through this one.  As a result I missed some salient details.

I didn't see WHook.  I became confused on why Jacinda was ignoring Henry because he was spending time hanging out with Roni but then he apologized for spending time with Ivy.  Either I got one of those wrong or missed something in between,

In not news to anyone, Jacinda and Henry are doing nothing for me.

I'm starting to get annoyed that they decided to set up the idea that fairy tales happened multiple ways in other realms and they are sticking to one land.  A land that is boring me out of my mind.

And I am becoming actively annoyed with the show to the point that they build up to a big reveal and I flip the channel.  I don't know why Regina can't reveal she is awake to Henry or what Ivy wants her to do.  I may never know.  Its probably something illogically idiotic and full of plot holes.

[Shanna Marie]

12 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Drizella is a step better than Regina since she's actually blaming the correct person. She's not trying to kill Anastasia or Jacinda. She's going after the woman who has abused her over the years, not that it's right.

Well, up to the part where she curses an entire society rather than targeting her mother. Other than that, she makes a somewhat sympathetic villain because her foe is another villain and her motivations make sense.

However, we've got the problem that the Dark Curse is actually a really bad way to get revenge. It was dumb when Regina cast it, but at least there, Rumple wanted it cast and was manipulating Regina into thinking it would bring her happiness, and there was the spell that kept her from hurting Snow while they were in their own world, so she had to cast the curse to get to a place where she could hurt Snow. There's absolutely no reason for Drizella to need to use the Dark Curse to torment her mother. There are lots of ways she could do that right where she is. And, so far, it's not as though the curse is causing her mother all that much suffering. She cursed her mother into being wealthy and powerful, able to keep meddling in Cinderella's life and, apparently, conscious of who she really is. It seems that whatever bad thing that happens if the curse is broken won't affect her, or else Regina would have no qualms about breaking the curse. So how is this revenge? The Dark Curse is a poorly thought-out plot device that makes very little sense when it's used in the show as a convenient transport mechanism.

I suspect this episode would improve tremendously and maybe be pretty good if you skip over any scene with Jacinda, Lucy, or Henry in it. That's where all the rage-inducing stuff comes in, like Henry claiming that Regina was the first person to love him. It's also where the eyeroll-inducing stuff comes in, like Henry's 80s fetish and the way they talk like there's some great connection between Henry and Jacinda but never actually show a hint of it. He says he can't stop thinking about her, but he has to be practically tortured into going anywhere near her. Things are getting really creepy between him and Roni/Regina. Them walking around eating pizza felt more like a date than any interaction between Henry and Jacinda. I know they're trying to show that Regina is a wonderful, loving mother, but the way she talked about Henry was really unhealthy sounding. If she can't function without her fully grown, adult son and she's all out of sorts that her adult son doesn't need a mother hovering over him, then she needs help. This is where the timeline would make a difference. Regina mentioned to Rumple that it was a blink of an eye for them while Belle grew old and died, but if the interval between Henry leaving home and them running into him as an adult passed in real time in Storybrooke, that would have been years, which isn't quite a blink of an eye. If it's been just weeks/months for Storybrooke, then that makes more sense and might explain Regina's weirdness, if she only just weeks ago saw Henry as a teenager, no time passed, and now he's suddenly an adult. But they need to tell us these things. We're this far into the season, and we still don't know how they get fuel for the motorcycle and how much time has passed. They didn't seem to notice anything weird about the dates on the adoption papers. Henry was born in 2001 (to be 10 in 2011 when the show starts), so wouldn't that have been a clue that those papers couldn't have been about this Henry's adoption, since he's in his 30s and the Henry Mills in those papers would be a teenager (even with the age slippage in later seasons)? Yeah, we know they're real, but wouldn't they have seen the discrepancy?

It also looks like my theory about this being an Author AU was wrong, unless Drizella didn't actually cast the Dark Curse and forced Henry to write an AU instead, and they have to keep Henry and Jacinda from having a TLK because that would be the end of the book, and then they'd all be trapped there.

Hey, now at least there's an obstacle to Henry and Jacinda, which might make their relationship moderately more interesting. Up until now, there was nothing stopping them, aside from the fact that neither of them seemed all that interested.

I had this strong sense that Colin was really enjoying himself when he got to kick a door open and barge in, waving a gun.

[cappoe]

Quote

Rogers' subplot is a little hard to follow, and frankly kind of generic. Here's this random long lost daughter to give him something to do. The writers are basically saying, "Here, boy! Go get the stick!"

If only Colin still didn't have a year left on his contract. He would have left no doubt about it.

[KingOfHearts]

We don't know what Drizella plans to use the Dark Curse for yet, though. She may be trying to accomplish something she couldn't in the other realm. We know from her interactions with Mophead her plans haven't been fully executed yet. Regina wanted her subjects living in miserable lives, but revenge on Victoria could have different circumstances. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

12 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Well, up to the part where she curses an entire society rather than targeting her mother. Other than that, she makes a somewhat sympathetic villain because her foe is another villain and her motivations make sense.

However, we've got the problem that the Dark Curse is actually a really bad way to get revenge. It was dumb when Regina cast it, but at least there, Rumple wanted it cast and was manipulating Regina into thinking it would bring her happiness, and there was the spell that kept her from hurting Snow while they were in their own world, so she had to cast the curse to get to a place where she could hurt Snow. There's absolutely no reason for Drizella to need to use the Dark Curse to torment her mother. There are lots of ways she could do that right where she is. And, so far, it's not as though the curse is causing her mother all that much suffering. She cursed her mother into being wealthy and powerful, able to keep meddling in Cinderella's life and, apparently, conscious of who she really is. It seems that whatever bad thing that happens if the curse is broken won't affect her, or else Regina would have no qualms about breaking the curse. So how is this revenge? The Dark Curse is a poorly thought-out plot device that makes very little sense when it's used in the show as a convenient transport mechanism.

Well, it seems to me that Drizella gave her mother false memories that make her think *she* cast the curse, and is setting her up for some kind of fall. Which will be worst after thinking she's won.

I'm not sure what you mean there. Regina would still have qualms about breaking the curse and hurting Victoria if it also hurt Henry, Jacinda and Lucy.

Edited November 11, 2017 by Noneofyourbusiness

[cappoe]

After that disrespect at Emma I can't wait for tomorrows ratings. Series low in both viewership and demo hopefully.

[Shanna Marie]

8 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

I'm not sure what you mean there. Regina would still have qualms about breaking the curse and hurting Victoria if it also hurt Henry, Jacinda and Lucy.

What I mean is that it sounds like the brunt of the effects of breaking the curse fall on someone Regina cares about. It's not something that will fall solely on Victoria, or else Regina wouldn't hesitate to break the curse. Which is weird if the curse is meant to punish Victoria.

Maybe we'll get more details later, but so far, it looks like an overly elaborate revenge plot that's having its strongest effects on everyone but the person Druzilla wants revenge on. At least with Regina, by the time she cast the curse, she was mad at everyone for not loving her as much as they loved Snow, so she wanted to torture the whole kingdom. Unless something happens later that makes Druzilla want to hurt everyone, so far, she's hurting everyone else far more than she's hurting her mother, and it's other people who'll be hurt if the curse breaks.

[Rumsy4]

37 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

It also looks like my theory about this being an Author AU was wrong, unless Drizella didn't actually cast the Dark Curse and forced Henry to write an AU instead, and they have to keep Henry and Jacinda from having a TLK because that would be the end of the book, and then they'd all be trapped there.

Or maybe she stole the magic Quill and wrote the AU herself. Maybe the reason why everything is so unrealistic in HH is becasue it's an AU. It's not in the Real World at all. I might love this. 

32 minutes ago, cappoe said:

If only Colin still didn't have a year left on his contract. He would have left no doubt about it.

Why? It's a steady job in an uncertain TV landscape. From what he said in the cons, it seems like he was satisfied that the CS Happy Ending was preserved, and he would get to play new versions of Hook. Win win. 

14 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Maybe we'll get more details later, but so far, it looks like an overly elaborate revenge plot that's having its strongest effects on everyone but the person Druzilla wants revenge on. ...Unless something happens later that makes Druzilla want to hurt everyone, so far, she's hurting everyone else far more than she's hurting her mother, and it's other people who'll be hurt if the curse breaks.

I too feel that it is a huge flaw in Ivy's "revenge" plan. Maybe there will be future episodes to explain why, but somehow I doubt it. I think this was supposed to be Ivy's villain origin story, and from on she will be muahahaing against the idiots at every opportunity.

Edited November 11, 2017 by Rumsy4

[Camera One]

This episode annoyed me.  It irritates me to watch people duped, even Regina.  Drizella was suddenly an insta-magic master, so why didn't she just grab the Fairy Godmother's wand and send out another vine to strangle her mother right then and there?  

In no universe does A&E not write for Regina, whether it's original recipe Regina, The Evil Queen Regina or now, Re-zella or Regina 2.0.  For that reason, I found Drizella annoying.  To me, there's nothing interesting to explore in her character.  She's officially a murderer too, with the killing of the prince.  We've seen it all before, except she is even less sympathetic than Young Regina.  Who knew that was possible.  I do think the actress is doing an awesome job, though, but that doesn't mean I enjoy watching it.

I was getting second-hand embarrassment watching Henry's "moves" with Jacinda in that whole moving van repair scene.  What's the opposite of chemistry again?  Henry was clearly A&E's self-insert with all his pick-up lines about the 80s. 

So Regina's first impulse in the flashback was to use a fireball?  Doesn't that kill?  Why was she just standing there?  She could have used magic to hurl a few rocks, couldn't she?  Oh right, that goes against the "You don't need my help anymore!" subplot.  Who knew a cheap lunchbox could injure.   Recon missions with a noisy motorcycle?  What the hell has Regina been doing with the Resistance?  Hook is on a Navy patrol?  What?  We have no idea what this dumb resistance even does.  There was so much idiocy with that whole sequence alone.  

The scenes with Regina and Adult Henry felt forced and heavy-handed in the flashback, especially the "You're the first person who loved me.  The only person for many years" and Regina's "Living in Storybrooke without you, I couldn't stand it.  Without you, I just don't know how to be"  Uh, really?   Come on, even Regina isn't THAT pathetic.  I did think the scene where Henry said he was born in prison and grew up in the system was good.  Though at this point, shouldn't Ivy be worried about a True Love Kiss between Roni and Henry?

I've had it up to here with Lucy's long monologues of narration.  Roni's whole plan to pretend-to-believe-and-let-Lucy-figure-out-the-truth-herself was such a rip-off of Emma's plan in "Snow Falls" when she asked Mary Margaret to read the story to David in the hospital.  Since when did people remember who they were when they touched the storybook?

I admit I did find the little call-backs like the Belle Notte pizza with the stray dogs kinda funny.

Weaver making a deal with Roni irked me, just like it in in Season 1.  I still have zero interest in his storyline.

So after a better episode last week, I'm back to blech.

Edited November 11, 2017 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

21 minutes ago, Camera One said:

In no universe does A&E not write for Regina, whether it's original recipe Regina, The Evil Queen Regina or now, Re-zella or Regina 2.0.  For that reason, I found Drizella annoying.  To me, there's nothing interesting to explore in her character.  She's officially a murderer too, with the killing of the prince.  We've seen it all before, except she is even less sympathetic than Young Regina.  Who knew that was possible.  I do think the actress is doing an awesome job, though, but that doesn't mean I enjoy watching it.

You've helped clarify why I suddenly found Ivyzilla less interesting after this episode. As an ambiguous baddie she was intriguing. As a straight-up baddie, she's become just another clone of Regina, with an even shorter curve to villainy. I hope they introduce some ambiguity back into her character. 

[Watt]

I am suddenly very confused as to why it apparently took driz like 10 years to figure out how to cast this curse? She decides to cast the curse before Boringella and Henry are even a thing much less have a bratty kid together.

[ParadoxLost]

26 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

You've helped clarify why I suddenly found Ivyzilla less interesting after this episode. As an ambiguous baddie she was intriguing. As a straight-up baddie, she's become just another clone of Regina, with an even shorter curve to villainy. I hope they introduce some ambiguity back into her character. 

Its too bad she decided to make her heart completely black as it removes that possibility.  Shouldn't she be one the verge of death soon or was that just a Rumple thing.

Maybe they'll reveal at some point that she was bluffing and just did the thing where she pulled out her heart and locked it away for safe keeping.

7 minutes ago, Watt said:

I am suddenly very confused as to why it apparently took driz like 10 years to figure out how to cast this curse? She decides to cast the curse before Boringella and Henry are even a thing much less have a bratty kid together.

I still think Lucy is adopted and is Henry and Cinderella's kid for all of five minutes before the curse.

[Camera One]

14 minutes ago, Watt said:

I am suddenly very confused as to why it apparently took driz like 10 years to figure out how to cast this curse? She decides to cast the curse before Boringella and Henry are even a thing much less have a bratty kid together.

You'd think Drizloser would have found a way to punish her mother some other way, or, better yet, kill her, in that time.

[AnimeMania]

Too bad Regina couldn't have saved her drink and given everybody a little sip of her mind unaltering cocktail. I guess that would have ruined the drama.

How did Henry pull that lug wrench out of his tiny TRON lunch/tool box?

[Noneofyourbusiness]

6 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

What I mean is that it sounds like the brunt of the effects of breaking the curse fall on someone Regina cares about. It's not something that will fall solely on Victoria, or else Regina wouldn't hesitate to break the curse. Which is weird if the curse is meant to punish Victoria.

It could be that breaking the curse will hurt everyone or just the good guys. But the point of that clause is to discourage a hero from breaking the curse with True Love's Kiss the way they always have before, so that makes sense either way. Victoria's not going to be True Love's Kissing anytime soon.

6 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Maybe we'll get more details later, but so far, it looks like an overly elaborate revenge plot that's having its strongest effects on everyone but the person Druzilla wants revenge on. At least with Regina, by the time she cast the curse, she was mad at everyone for not loving her as much as they loved Snow, so she wanted to torture the whole kingdom. Unless something happens later that makes Druzilla want to hurt everyone, so far, she's hurting everyone else far more than she's hurting her mother, and it's other people who'll be hurt if the curse breaks.

So far, but that's what Victoria is supposed to think. Drizella and the Witch appear to be playing a long game where it will look like her mother's getting everything she wants and winning only to have the rug pulled out from under her ultimately (like she herself did to Drizella), which will crush her. For that to happen, Victoria has to be comfortable and her enemies have to be suffering, at first. Hurting everyone else is just a means to that end, and Drizella doesn't care. What's more disappointing or soul-crushing than the fall that comes after pride, at the moment of victory? If I wanted to really destroy someone, that's what I'd do.

If this is true, then Drizella has the most well-thought-out and devastating version of the Dark Curse yet. One with a specific endgame plan behind it and no weaknesses like being straightforward to break or Snow not knowing what she's being punished for. I'm actually impressed by the thought the writers have put into this. Hopefully the payoff will be suitably effective. Like Victoria ends up causing her own worst nightmare/agony instead of resurrecting Anastasia when she thinks she's doing the latter.

It's almost certain that Victoria doesn't remember Drizella using her magic and declaring her intention to punish her with the Dark Curse, or she wouldn't think "Ivy" is just her innocuous screwup of a daughter/assistant to be ordered around. But at the end she'll know who's responsible and why, and that she was just used when she thought she was in charge, and it'll destroy her.

Edited November 11, 2017 by Noneofyourbusiness

[ParadoxLost]

2 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

What's more disappointing or soul-crushing than the fall that comes after pride, at the moment of victory? If I wanted to really destroy someone, that's what I'd do.

If this is true, then Drizella has the most well-thought-out and devastating version of the Dark Curse yet. One with a specific endgame plan behind it and no weaknesses like being straightforward to break or Snow not knowing what she's being punished for. I'm actually impressed by the thought the writers have put into this.

Except Drizella already did this.  Victoria was on the verge of winning in the flashback and Drizella turned her heart black and killed the Prince so Victoria could have a pride after the fall moment.   So what is the point of casting the Dark Curse to build up Victoria again just so she can return her to the exact same state?  Why not just start making Victoria unrelentingly miserable when she is at her lowest from that point in time?

Regina seems to have relayed the Dark Curse as a cautionary tale. and told her tale of woe from that time she was in Groundhog Day and not satisfied with her revenge and so lonely she killed a kid's father.  Poor Regina, so sad, so much pain.  So Drizella likely cast the curse thinking Victoria suffering Regina's punishment of being "in charge' of the cursed is the best revenge ever. 

I was being sarcastic at first, but I actually think this is true.  Drizella reenacted the first curse.  Henry and Cinderella are Snowing, true loves separated and unable to raise their daughter, Lucy who is talking on Emma's role (not Henry's).  Drizella cast Victoria into Regina's role who was happy at first but came to suffer so much more pain relative to everyone else. Remember, Regina's version.

Drizella bought Regina's line of villains never get a happily ever after and isn't that the most tragic thing ever and cursed that fate on Victoria as revenge.  So Drizella is an idiot.  And I'm watching a show now more deeply mired in the most irritating thing about S1-S6 than I realized possible.

Edited November 11, 2017 by ParadoxLost

[Noneofyourbusiness]

1 hour ago, ParadoxLost said:

Except Drizella already did this.  Victoria was on the verge of winning in the flashback and Drizella turned her heart black and killed the Prince so Victoria could have a pride after the fall moment.

That is a point. If she has something worse in mind, it could involve destroying Anastasia completely or something we don't know enough to guess yet.

[darkestboy]

I really enjoyed this one, best of the season so far.

Having Drizella as the main villain is a brilliant move. The actress actually pulls the menace off well and the fact that she's fool proofed the Dark Curse is a great twist as well.

Victoria never cut it as the big bad and having her as a victim of the curse is fine by me. Though the Witch might pose a future problem for Drizella as well though.

Regina finally remembers and the Henry/Jacinda/Lucy bits were okay but nothing great.

Nice scenes with Weaver, other Hook and Alice in this one, 8/10

[Rumsy4]

6 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

How did Henry pull that lug wrench out of his tiny TRON lunch/tool box?

And he was using the lunch box as a club to beat the would-be thieves. It must be one heck of a lunch box. lol

1 hour ago, ParadoxLost said:

I was being sarcastic at first, but I actually think this is true.  Drizella reenacted the first curse.  Henry and Cinderella are Snowing, true loves separated and unable to raise their daughter, Lucy who is talking on Emma's role (not Henry's).  Drizella cast Victoria into Regina's role who was happy at first but came to suffer so much more pain relative to everyone else. Remember, Regina's version.

Drizella bought Regina's line of villains never get a happily ever after and isn't that the most tragic thing ever and cursed that fate on Victoria as revenge.  So Drizella is an idiot.  And I'm watching a show now more deeply mired in the most irritating thing about S1-S6 than I realized possible.

OMG. Is that what it was? It makes some sense now. I kept scratching my head why Drizella thought this was a huge punishment to her mother. This has to be the stupidest motive to cast the boring Dark Curse.

26 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

If she has something worse in mind, it could involve destroying Anastasia completely ...

Maybe she does plan on it, if the Dark Curse does get broken.

Also, is there any reason why Drizella assumed that Tremaine was planning to use her heart to resurrect Anastasia? After all, her mother had asked her to kill Henry earlier, and she had been ready to comply. I doubt she would've, if her heart had been so "pure".

Edited November 11, 2017 by Rumsy4

[kpw801]

I enjoyed this episode.  I loved the fact that there was not so much icky Jacinda.  How much more irresponsible can she be- "Can I borrow your tools I sold mine?

I can believe that Drizella's magic ability improved quickly because Regina told her if she believed in herself she could harness it.  I don't know if it is the same thing but I remember in the early chapters of Harry Potter, he could do things too, like opening the glass cage and releasing the snake at the zoo.  She obviously has something of an ability with plant life. Remember when Regina first came upon her she was nearly eaten by a magic plant.  It was a plant elixir that she used to wake Regina up. I would like to posit a theory that Lucy is not Jacinda's daughter but the result of an Enchanted forest liaison a la Henry and Drizella. There are a lot of ways to go when you think about 21st Century technology and magic.

[Mitch]

10 hours ago, cappoe said:

If only Colin still didn't have a year left on his contract. He would have left no doubt about it.

He's an actor, he has a family that he needs to feed, getting steady acting gigs are hard and he seems pretty easy going and likes what he is doing..why would he have left? I know he is a super big deal on here and I wish him all the success on earth but I really don't see him lighting the world on fire as much as others apparently do,  I like him but he is just another pretty face with an accent in HW so he went with the smart choice.

I liked this episode as something finally happened..I think Regina's thing with Drizella would make more sense (I can see her relating what was happening to D to what happened with Cora) if as usual, they didn't rush things...they should have show Drizella trying to use her magic and it back firing, (trees or a hut catches on fire) so to keep her or anyone else from getting hurt she helps her control her powers. I think the dark heart thing is stupid...its not just commiting an actual murder that turns your heart dark, if your ready, willing and able to kill someone and your filled with anger and hate..your hearts already there.

I liked Regina waking up and her dilemma though again I wanted more of Roni being freaked out she killed hundreds of people in the past...Roni looks like she would be all Greenpeace/BLM and she should have more of a freaked out transition...I would if I woke up and found out I was Snidely Whiplash or something...I liked Rump and his deal making. Funny how the two vet actors can make this work with their back history but the rest of the show is unglued.  I like that we don't really know what Drizella is up to, there is mystery there and its nice to not have a villain MWHAHAHAing on Main Street and telling everyone their evil plan, which of course would be "Taking over Storybrooke.!!!"

[kpw801]

I wonder who the heart belonged to that Drizella had to use to cast the curse.  She doesn't seem to have anyone who loved her or vice versa.

[Mitch]

5 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

If this is true, then Drizella has the most well-thought-out and devastating version of the Dark Curse yet. One with a specific endgame plan behind it and no weaknesses like being straightforward to break or Snow not knowing what she's being punished for. I'm actually impressed by the thought the writers have put into this. Hopefully the payoff will be suitably effective. Like Victoria ends up causing her own worst nightmare/agony instead of resurrecting Anastasia when she thinks she's doing the latter.

But then this is what always is stupid about the Dark Curse..why does it have to take place in the LWOM? Regina could have cast the curse in the EF and kept them all there, with her in power and them miserable...so we know why Rump wanted to get here so that made sense the she was manipulated into it, but why with would Drizella want to come here? Hopefully they will explain.

[Rumsy4]

5 minutes ago, kpw801 said:

I wonder who the heart belonged to that Drizella had to use to cast the curse.  She doesn't seem to have anyone who loved her or vice versa.

Maybe she forced Henry to cast it with Murderella's heart. And she's only alive becasue of some author nonsense. 

5 minutes ago, Mitch said:

Hopefully they will explain.

*snerk*

[kpw801]

1 minute ago, Rumsy4 said:

Maybe she forced Henry to cast it with Murderella's heart. And she's only alive becasue of some author nonsense. 

*snerk*

You could be right though.  The mysterious heart could be the destructive fail safe.

[Shanna Marie]

What we have here is a cascade of Too Stupid To Live. So Regina sees an angry young woman and decides the best thing to do is teach her magic. Maybe teaching her morals first would have been a better idea. I think this is yet another problem with the centric format, where this was the designated Druzilla/Regina episode, and so they crammed the whole thing into one episode -- and possibly even one day -- when this is a story that should have spanned an arc. If Druzilla is playing the long game, then she could have conned Regina into taking her under her wing, convincing her she was good so that Regina would then be willing to teach her magic. It should have taken place at least over weeks, preferably months. Not one day, hey, I'll teach you magic, okay, now you're an expert, and oops, you're evil.

I maintain that the Dark Curse is a really dumb revenge plan. There is no reason Druzilla couldn't have had revenge on her mother and made her mother suffer in their world without sucking the whole kingdom into it. There's a whole resistance movement against her mother and the king. Throwing her support to the resistance movement could have helped bring her mother and the king down. They could have then taken everything away from her, paraded her through the streets in shame, enslaved or imprisoned her. Meanwhile, she could have staked Anastasia's body through the heart or burned her or something to make it impossible to bring her back. It's hard to see how the curse could be worse than that, considering that Victoria is wealthy and powerful and still has hope of reviving Anastasia. Druzilla made the decision to cast the curse in this episode, so it wasn't a last-gasp desperation move after everything else failed.

And we have yet another case of the good guys being squeamish about killing their enemies. Lady Tremaine has already murdered the prince and framed Ella for it and has ordered Henry's death twice. They're in a resistance movement against her. What are they planning to do if they win against her? Invite her to tea and a chat? Would Druzilla have gone as off the deep end as she did if they'd taken the opportunity to take out Lady Tremaine? Regina pulled a Snow and refused to deal with her enemy, which allowed worse things to happen.

[Camera One]

30 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

And we have yet another case of the good guys being squeamish about killing their enemies. Lady Tremaine has already murdered the prince and framed Ella for it and has ordered Henry's death twice. They're in a resistance movement against her. What are they planning to do if they win against her? Invite her to tea and a chat? Would Druzilla have gone as off the deep end as she did if they'd taken the opportunity to take out Lady Tremaine? Regina pulled a Snow and refused to deal with her enemy, which allowed worse things to happen.

The Writers also presented this as an All-or-Nothing.  Regina could have offered to help Drizella disarm Lady Tremaine, disable her permanently, put her in prison and Drizella can spend her entire life taunting her mother since she seems to have no other purpose or desires.  And don't tell me that the All Powerful Regina can't stop or capture a Magical Novice like Drizella.  She couldn't have taught her *everything* in one day. There are plot holes all over the place and relies on the characters' stupidity - one of the biggest problems with this show all along and showcased especially in this episode.

Quote

I maintain that the Dark Curse is a really dumb revenge plan. There is no reason Druzilla couldn't have had revenge on her mother and made her mother suffer in their world without sucking the whole kingdom into it. There's a whole resistance movement against her mother and the king. Throwing her support to the resistance movement could have helped bring her mother and the king down. They could have then taken everything away from her, paraded her through the streets in shame, enslaved or imprisoned her. Meanwhile, she could have staked Anastasia's body through the heart or burned her or something to make it impossible to bring her back. It's hard to see how the curse could be worse than that, considering that Victoria is wealthy and powerful and still has hope of reviving Anastasia. Druzilla made the decision to cast the curse in this episode, so it wasn't a last-gasp desperation move after everything else failed.

As you said, it's a case where the simpler form of revenge is staring Drizella in her face, yet she chooses the Dark Curse that Regina mentions in passing.  If she wanted revenge right away, why not steal Anastasia's body right away and then imprison her mother and watch her suffer there?  

This episode also perpetuates the message we've seen at least 25 times before on this show - if you try to help someone, it will backfire.  Basically, Regina should have let Drizella get crushed by that plant beside the tower.

Edited November 11, 2017 by Camera One

[tessaray]

It's a dilemma... this episode actually kept me mildly entertained but by the end of it, I no longer cared about Ivy/Drizella.  A morally gray character is fun to watch, straight up evil is just plain stupid - especially if it was caused by mommy issues. (Isn't that what every arch villain whines about - mommy or daddy didn't love me? Ugh.)  Yeah, don't care. 

It's kind of a shame, because Regina and Drizella could have been fun to watch.  I love a good master/apprentice relationship.  It could have been entertaining to see Regina of all people try to keep someone from turning to the dark side. 

[Camera One]

Another mark of a good reveal is whether it works with what we've seen.  Waking up Roni for the sole purpose of keeping Henry and Jacinda apart is stupid (and involving Lucy, daughter of someone who previously broke the Curse, is even stupider).  You'd think Ivy could have put the moves on Henry immediately, or at least more persistently since Halloween.  She already had Henry's sympathy and could have built on that.  Or she could wake up some other woman to put the moves on Henry, since he's clearly so malleable. 

Given this show's track record, at some point, we're going to be manipulated to feel sorry for Drizella again, either in flashback or present-day or both, especially because she is arguably the best new actress and they can give her the same "arc" as Regina.

Edited November 11, 2017 by Camera One

[MaiLuna]

Well, for the first time I found Regina likeable the whole episode. She did act stupid (that's a given in this show for the plot to go forward) but she didn't do anything totally morally wrong at least. I do believe the flashback was rushed, it should've spanned more time. And I hate that they ignore the reason the show started! Kid Henry wasn't happy with Regina. 

From Regina's reaction, it seems Henry dies if the curse is broken. Or maybe Lucy. I don't see Regina having that reaction for anyone else. If it's Lucy then we can have the parent/child TLK at the end of the season like everything else they're coping from season 1. 

It seems pretty obvious Ivy didn't cast the curse, just because of the way she's phrasing it: "When the curse was cast"...

I haven't decided if Tilly really is WHook's daughter or if she'll be someone else. Or maybe they'll make us think it's someone else for a while, then reveal it was Alice all along. 

They're trying with Henry/Jacinderella but there's no much chemistry. Imagine how good it'd have been to have cursed Captain Swan falling and pining for each other *sigh*

[kpw801]

Well, I for one am sticking to the new series, if only because I know it is the last.  I need to see Rumple do something Rumpley!  I need to find out what Drizella's motivations are and I definitely need to see if they get rid of Cinderella.

[KingOfHearts]

Does anyone else get some Kylo Ren vibes from Drizella? She's another super villain wannabe.

Her character probably would have been improved if she didn't murder a prince to undermine her mother. On this show, the only way to taint your heart is to kill someone. (Coldblood, armed, in self-defense, it doesn't matter.) Is there really no other evil act? Perhaps she could have found some dark magic in one of the trinkets she was looking into and got it in infused in her, damaging her purity.