PODCAST S01.E18 Go Pirates!: For LoVe Or Money

[Primetimer]

Guest host Lani Diane Rich helps Sarah and John untangle the many heart-strings of Veronica Mars S01.E18.

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[Primetimer]

Dig the minty-freshest screenshots from S01.E18, 'Weapons Of Class Destruction'!

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[ehr1006]

All I have to do is see the picture of those two together and my day is made. LOVE forever! (yes, I'm a 36 year old married mother of 2. SO WHAT.)

[Michele]

I THINK Sarah may have been confusing Jonathan Taylor Thomas with Jonathan Brandis, a teen heartthrob from the same time who died in 2003 or it's possible she could have confused him with Brad Renfro (who was in Tom & Huck with JTT) who died in 2008. 

[Sarah D. Bunting]

Probably Renfro. Also, it's been NINE YEARS since he passed? Oo-fah.

[Clare]

I think I liked the crime of the week a lot more than you guys.  I would have given it a B. I really liked Norris and having Mac back was a bonus. JTT also didn't bother me.  I really liked this episode except for the Wallace/ Wallace's mom stuff.  Veronica is such a shitty friend to him, I also don't think Wallace would keep Veronica's secret over protecting his Mom.  It doesn't ring true to me. 

Thanks so much for getting a Logan/Veronica fan for this episode.  They are also one of my favourite couples although I totally get that the internet sometimes kills nice things, I also get that they were toxic and not everyone's cup of tea.  I think I stopped going to the Twop boards about half way through season 2.  I have learned to sometimes step away for the sake of my own enjoyment.

Rob Thomas has spoken about this kiss a few times that the combination of the camera and music was not what he intended.  It played way more romantic and they didn't have the budget or time to fix. 

I've also always just assumed that KB was doing both voices.

[MrPeanutbutter]

I registered just so I could comment about the fact that there was once a Grey's Anatomy episode - maybe season two or so - in which our boy Log shows up as a patient who is a high school hockey player with a broken thumb or finger. When told he can't play in the big game, HE CUTS OFF HIS THUMB/FINGER following instructions he read online so he can play. Then, when they can't reattach it because of course they can't, he says "BUT I READ IT ON THE INTERNET." I just need you all to know this exists. It makes his Duncan scenes seem well-acted by comparison.

[sanford]

While I don't think the writing supports it, I wonder if the fact that the two closest females in Veronica's life were both gone explain why she was so focused on getting Lianne back in their lives. She did not have that option with Lily, so maybe she focused on getting Lianne back because she was still alive? I don't know.

As for Teddy Dunn, it was frustrating at the time that he was so far behind the other actors. But, in hindsight, the fact that they wrote him out and the fact that he is no longer acting, make me a bit more forgiving. That said, this season, which was really great overall, would have been sterling if there had been a better actor in the Duncan role, especially since it was such a pivotal role in Veronica's arc in Season 1.

I can definitely appreciate Dohring as an actor, but the VeLo (Sarah, I'm following your lead) relationship, especially coming so close on the heels of the Buffy writers completely twisting the narrative to accommodate Spike in a love interest role Buffy (to the show's detriment, IMO...don't @ me), completely turned me off.

Edited October 13, 2017 by sanford

[Affogato]

I think the kiss with Leo comes across better than the Camelot kiss in these screen shots. Rob Thomas said something similar, that he'd wanted more abandon in the kiss but that the aftermath (not screen shot here) was everything he wanted. I think Dohring really has to be seen in motion, I'm not sure a still does it for me.

Wallace is adorable brushing his teeth. He is so guileless, unlike everyone else.

Why does Keith not date more after Veronica eventually moves out. PTSD from all of these experiences when she was living with him?

Are highschools infested with miniature ATF agents? Secretly this guy is 50 years old, but he knows how to moisturize!

Did they ever resolve that Maltese Falcon case?

[pau]

4 hours ago, sanford said:

While I don't think the writing supports it, I wonder if the fact that the two closest females in Veronica's life were both gone explain why she was so focused on getting Lianne back in their lives. She did not have that option with Lily, so maybe she focused on getting Lianne back because she was still alive? I don't know.

As for Teddy Dunn, it was frustrating at the time that he was so far behind the other actors. But, in hindsight, the fact that they wrote him out and the fact that he is no longer acting, make me a bit more forgiving. That said, this season, which was really great overall, would have been sterling if there had been a better actor in the Duncan role, especially since it was such a pivotal role in Veronica's arc in Season 1.

I can definitely appreciate Dohring as an actor, but the VeLo (Sarah, I'm following your lead) relationship, especially coming so close on the heels of the Buffy writers completely twisting the narrative to accommodate Spike in a love interest role Buffy (to the show's detriment, IMO...don't @ me), completely turned me off.

I really don't get the comparison except in a very very very surfacy level and yet...but whatever.

Edited October 14, 2017 by pau

[pau]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

I think the kiss with Leo comes across better than the Camelot kiss in these screen shots. Rob Thomas said something similar, that he'd wanted more abandon in the kiss but that the aftermath (not screen shot here) was everything he wanted. I think Dohring really has to be seen in motion, I'm not sure a still does it for me.

Wallace is adorable brushing his teeth. He is so guileless, unlike everyone else.

Why does Keith not date more after Veronica eventually moves out. PTSD from all of these experiences when she was living with him?

Are highschools infested with miniature ATF agents? Secretly this guy is 50 years old, but he knows how to moisturize!

Did they ever resolve that Maltese Falcon case?

Rob Thomas above all said that it was better than he excepted and he watch it regularly because he so proud of this scene..he also said it made him cry..because it was so well done !

Edited October 13, 2017 by pau

[helent]

I think Clemons was gaslighting Miss Stafford - she got too close to the truth and he was trying to get her off the scent.

I like Norris too, I wish we saw him again.

Edited October 18, 2017 by helent

[helent]

Hey, it's Reverend Steve Newlin!
 

[Affogato]

41 minutes ago, pau said:

Rob Thomas above all said that it was better than he excepted and he watch it regularly because he so proud of this scene..he also said it made him cry..because it was so well done !

Actually although I don't follow thomas interviews that closely I don't think the two comments are mutually exclusive or that one trumps the other. 

Edited October 13, 2017 by Affogato

[pau]

Just now, Affogato said:

Well all righty then? Actually although I don't follow thomas interviews that closely I don't think the two comments are mutually exclusive or that one trumps the other. 

Never said the opposite, just add some more info about Rob Thomas and what he said about this famous scene.

[Affogato]

I liked Norris, too. Also, he could probably have helped Veronica with her self defense training needs, which were immense (I suspect trying to avoid BTVS territory here, but at some point it seemed like it should have occurred to someone that she should get some training. I can hardly get past it, myself. Oddly, if your little, tasers and guns can be taken away from you and used against you....um).  

The popcorn bucket comment was a low blow and pretty gross.

I think Veronica is taking Joseph Campbell's heroes journey--his journey particularly, with the supernatural aid from Lilly and the journey to the underground (river styx). and that Liane was part of that, Veronica's longing for the time before her call to adventure. I think the equally perplexing return to DK in season 2 serves the same story function for the second season.  I also think Veronica finding her, helping her, getting screwed over again and letting her go, is fairly healthy in the long run and staves off the abandonment issues that Logan will suffer for the rest of his life. 

I think there really is something wrong with the pacing of the overall arc. 

Isn't Keith setting up the divorce papers as he goes out with Rebecca?

I think Veronica is kind of a jerk to a lot of people. I also think she's still going to school, doing her cases, being a receptionist for her dad, and apparently staying out until 2 PM on stakeouts. However I think her core personality probably was the same when Lilly was alive. She's a little jerkass alpha. I think most of KB's characters are, frankly. 

The relationship with Logan at this time is sweet and shows a lot of promise, both of them have been through a lot less trauma than they will go through in a few months.

Edited October 14, 2017 by Affogato

[MostlyC]

Sigh, I really like Logan and Veronica together (I hate acronyms like the deaded VeLo etc.).  Since it's noir-ish, Logan is the male version of the morally gray femme fatale who the detective can't shake his feelings for.  So I'm fine with them being together as I like to think they wound up together and are somewhere having a great time solving mysteries and cases.  That's my story and I'm sticking too it.

As for Popcorn Box with the hole in it, I just remember the SNL "Dick in a Box" song

The crane camera work of the kiss was pretty good I think.  It was a great kiss- not at all the usual tv kisses we usually see. And Logan punching out "Jump Street" (hee) was terrific.

I don't know why Wallace didn't tell his Mom about Veronica's Mom being in Rehab.  

I truly loved this episode, both then and now.

[WhosThatGirl]

Sometimes you guys say something on these podcasts that resonate with me and make me smile today it was “I thought he died.. was happy he did not. But I’m pretty sure one of those kids did” about JTT. And also “I’m.. a) the blaze a lot of parents read it” because I was totally thinking that when you played the clip’ and I totally need a shirt!!!  Even though I still wish you guys would do a “never again” one.

Edited October 14, 2017 by WhosThatGirl

[caitmcg]

Ugh, I'd completely forgotten (or blocked) that Diner reference (back in the halcyon days of smarmy/charming Mickey Rourke, before he traveled one way through that continuum), for obvious reasons. Aside from the eww and whoever-in-the-writers'-room-thought... issues raised in the podcast, would someone in high school in the aughts even have a passing familiarity with that movie, which came out in 1982, vs., say, the evergreen John Hughes teen films of the mid '80s? Would someone even slightly older (like Kristen Bell's actual age)? I saw it in the theater and I was fairly young then (I'm old now), and I can't picture it.

[LCanterbury]

Due to geographical challenges, we originally viewed this episode in a format that required me to check the quality before we started watching. The bit that I randomly clicked to was 'the kiss'. Instead of being annoyed at such a spoiler, I was captivated by it and watched it over and over (and pretended to be surprised when I watched with my husband later). The music, the cheesy crane shots, the acting...all perfect! I wasn't ever really a Logan fan but it was a great moment.

[Earmuffs Mom]

So I googled Teddy Dunn just to see where he ended up and this article was in the top of the search.  He talks about how he deliberately played Duncan as a log and there is even a TWOP shoutout!

Teddy Dunn Chose to be a Log

[Cekrypton1]

With the caveat that all I know about the show is from listening to the podcast, I surmise that Veronica's blindspot re: Liane has two components. First, she was not parentalized by Liane leaving, but by Liane's alcoholism. And like many kids of alcoholics, likely yearns for a time, or a future, where the parent is better, and she can stop being the parent and be a kid again.

Secondly, from what I gather, Liane disappeared around the time of Lily's death and its investigation. Veronica is trying to do right by Lily by solving her murder but that will never re-set things or bring Lily back. On the other hand, getting Liane clean and bringing her home can re-set and restore the Mars home (so Veronica thinks) to something complete and whole.

[caitmcg]

10 hours ago, Earmuffs Mom said:

So I googled Teddy Dunn just to see where he ended up and this article was in the top of the search.  He talks about how he deliberately played Duncan as a log and there is even a TWOP shoutout!

Teddy Dunn Chose to be a Log

From that piece:

Quote

Since psychosomatic drugs used to treat bipolar disorder often leave the user emotionally distant, Dunn made the conscious choice to play Duncan that way. 

It's a shame the writer didn't know the difference between 'psychosomatic' and 'antipsychotic.' Anyway, I'm not sure his woodenness can be explained away as a deliberate acting choice. It's not as if he ever matched the rest of the regular cast.

[Sarah D. Bunting]

^ That. When he does flare up/show emotion, it's just shouty and unconvincing. Look, acting is hard; I wouldn't be good either. It's just so glaring, the difference.

[mwcherry]

If you look Teddy up as Edward, LinkedIn indicates that he is currently clerking for a judge in New Jersey. Hopefully he has found success in his legal career. (And of course now he will probably get a notification that I looked at his profile on LinkedIn, LOL.)

[John Potts]

I absolutely agree that no teenager wants to imagine their parents having sex, ever. Hell, I'm happy to imagine that my parents have only ever "done it" twice (I have a sister) and they've been married 50 years!

I think this episode DOES show the flaws in Veronica's character - she may be a cynic, but she has to really believe that the rehab will work out and that her parents will make it work this time, when if it was anyone else she would be rolling her eyes. And the way she dismisses Wallace's feelings really does show how one sided the Veronica/Wallace relationship usually was.

I think the character Sarah mentioned from Monsters Inc. was voiced by Jennifer Tilly (evidently NOT her regular voice!). And I think you overdo the piling onto Teddy Dunn - I thought he was actually scary when he shouted at Veronica (IMO).

Edited October 19, 2017 by John Potts

[WhosThatGirl]

On 10/17/2017 at 8:11 AM, Sarah D. Bunting said:

^ That. When he does flare up/show emotion, it's just shouty and unconvincing. Look, acting is hard; I wouldn't be good either. It's just so glaring, the difference.

Plus, as has been said, he may have been able to skate by if this was another teen drama, but considering his acting partners in most of his scenes were miles above him, it was painful to watch. 

And the scene where he yells at Veronica, I felt uncomfortable but not the way the show probably wanted me to. I felt uncomfortable because it was such an awkward scene to watch. 

Edited October 24, 2017 by WhosThatGirl

[jeansheridan]

I think my favorite detail is that after the kiss Veronica runs down to her car and you can see she's having trouble breathing and it is kind of awesome. Plus the music seemed good a the time. I might not like it now, but overall the music wasn't too horrible on this show.

[jeansheridan]

All I have to do is see the picture of those two together and my day is made. LOVE forever! (yes, I'm a 36 year old married mother of 2. SO WHAT.)

I was kind of hoping he'd do a cameo on The Good Place but I love her chemistry with Chidi and fear Dohring would overshadow him. The thing is, both actors have chemistry with all the people they work with which probably means they are just good actors. He was also good on that vampire show (Moonlight?) with the Hawaii 5-0 actor. Dohring is just an all purpose flirt on screen and I will always be there for it.

[littlewonder]

Squee!  I'm watching this for the first time and managed to stay unspoiled.  That Logan kiss was a total surprise to me and I squealed.  I'm in my mid-30s and an otherwise reasonable adult but those two have crazy chemistry.

[isiscloud]

Squee!  I'm watching this for the first time and managed to stay unspoiled.  That Logan kiss was a total surprise to me and I squealed.  I'm in my mid-30s and an otherwise reasonable adult but those two have crazy chemistry.

I'm much older than mid-30s. My husband & I just finished watching the series and movie. Have to go back and watch again now that I know what happened. Can't wait for this episode again! Squee!