S25.E06: Week 5: Disney Night

[Legalgirl82]

13 hours ago, kitcloudkicker said:

Everybody come dance! I like watching people that are committed, no matter where their starting point was. 

I feel the same way, with the exception of prior ballroom and/or Latin training.  

I didn't know of Paige prior to her season; but she and Mark were my team for S22.  Perhaps not here; but elsewhere she was eviscerated for her childhood dance training.  There are still some out there who insist she had a "lifetime" of dance experience, professionally taught dance and competed in ballroom dancing.  

I agree that Paige was a bit stronger technically than Lindsey is.  After all, Lindsey didn't learn as a child.  As with Paige, I didn't know about Lindsey prior to this season; but I've grown to like her very much.  She's got a great work ethic and wants to learn; she's kind and humble; is very friendly with the rest of the cast and is clearly enjoying the experience and having fun.  She and Mark have a great partnership, on and off the dance floor.  I hope to see them make it to the finals.

[katha]

I'm really torn on Frankie. Yeah, he's overscored. But I agree with the observation that he acts his dances very well and that is a skillset in itself. I also can't remember any contestant being so strong in that aspect and covering all sorts of flaws with it. It's super interesting and shows how good he is at his day job. He's the best performer around IMO, better than both Jordan (who has charisma, but is a bit one-note) and Lindsey (who has this awkward kindergarten teacher vibe, it's getting better now with Mark's teaching and clever dances...but still). He's just not the best dancer.

Mark's been doing super with Lindsey, she's someone who would get totally lost in the shuffle with a weaker pro IMO. No matter her skills. She's not very charismatic on her own. Mark's been catering to her strengths and you also see how great he is at the basics. He can do all sorts of extras, but the reason he can pull off the extras is because he can teach and choreograph at a very high level (which is something that was totally missing with Allison, for example, who wasn't ballroom-trained and IMO usually couldn't pull off her "edgy" things because she didn't have a solid foundation). The foxtrot was gorgeous. The jive a few weeks back was brilliant as well. But Mark's jives usually are.

Val is doing great with Victoria as well IMO. Her scores are what they are, whatever. But he's been smart about pushing her as far as she can handle, then packaging her in the most flattering way possible. The jazz wasn't super complicated and probably overscored (but jazz is usually overscored, the judges don't know what to do with that genre...same goes for contemporary), but I found it cute and entertaining and Victoria could perform it well. Val and Disney is such a curious thing anyway. He obviously doesn't give a damn about the whole thing, yet usually produces some of the strongest routines whenever it's a theme LOL.

I can't help but wonder if Sasha would have lasted longer with a stronger pro. Gleb didn't seem to know what to do with her. He did good with Adelina Sotnikova in Russia, so far this hasn't translated to the US version of the show IMO.

Edited October 21, 2017 by katha

[boyznkatz]

I don't think Gleb should be blamed for Sasha's ouster. She was pretty boring. Artem hasn't done anything to make Nikki interesting and Emma hasn't made Drew interesting. TPTB weren't that interested in Sasha to give her a "story" either.

Edited October 21, 2017 by boyznkatz

[calipiano81]

1 hour ago, boyznkatz said:

I don't think Gleb should be blamed for Sasha's ouster. She was pretty boring. Artem hasn't done anything to make Nikki interesting and Emma hasn't made Drew interesting. TPTB weren't that interested in Sasha to give her a "story" either.

I agree about Artem. His choreo for Nikki has been underwhelming for me, compared with what he produced with Nancy K last season. Which is strange because Nikki is younger and also an athlete... it seems like she could handle at least close to what Nancy could.

However, I disagree about Emma. I think she's been doing great with Drew. Her move to bring Jonathan into their jive last week was very clever, especially since Drew's MMY story wasn't as impactful as others'. Drew has been growing on me and is my personal dark horse. I actually have been preferring his acting and performance quality over Frankie (which I was initially surprised, given their respective professions, but then it was an eye-opener to me when Drew spoke about his attempt at an acting career). For me, it started with Drew's rumba, where I was surprised with his fluidity and romantic chemistry with Emma. Since then, I feel that he's gotten better and better at controlling his body and using his long limbs to his advantage. Though, he hasn't done any fast Latin with hip action (cha cha, salsa, samba) yet, so we'll see.

[Padma]

When they called Whitney and Frankie "in jeopardy" I figured it was just an obvious way to give Sasha a heads up that she was going home.  I thought Sasha's rhumba needed more hip action, but she had lovely lines and could have been a contender with a partner like Mark or Val.

Lindsey and Whitney never seem very bright when they talk, but they are both beautiful dancers and I generally love their choreography. Disney night is my favorite and I thought both teams were excellent and I'm convinced they will be there at the end.

 Agree that Drew and TO are both the most improved. I enjoyed them.

As for 'Coco", the dance was fine, but...yikes! ...the music!!! I must have heard something different from everyone else because I thought it was a shocking disaster (and I love so much Disney music). The man was singing a ballad with a completely different tempo and melody than the background of Mexican music. What the hell was that? I couldn't believe it, or understand how anyone could dance to it.

Not the best Disney night, but enjoyable nonetheless.

[UncleChuck]

Some observations on Frankie/Whitney and their Argentine Tango...

I liked the dance (a lot) and I don't care if he lifted her or not...

Whitney may never appear on "Jeopardy" but she is one of the most beautiful dancers ever on DWTS...

Beautiful, blonde Whitney just cannot pull off a sexy, edgy, sultry bad girl vibe--during this dance she looked like a pissed-off cheerleader...

Whitney was so apologetic about getting her heel caught in her dress and almost messing up the dance, but I have watched several times, and also in slow motion and freeze frame, and dadgummit, I just cannot see that wardrobe malfunction. 

Whitney is gorgeous and may have the best legs on television.

I still did not see that malfunction moment.

[lavenderblue]

8 hours ago, calipiano81 said:

I agree about Artem. His choreo for Nikki has been underwhelming for me, compared with what he produced with Nancy K last season. Which is strange because Nikki is younger and also an athlete... it seems like she could handle at least close to what Nancy could.

I think the difference here, and it's disappointing for me as someone who's more often than not been a fan of Artem's work, is that what Nikki may have on Nancy in age, she lacks in musicality. Nancy wasn't the most graceful and balletic figure skater ever, but I always got the sense from her last season that she really grasped the styles and the rhythms she was dancing, and it certainly made Artem's job easier in knowing he could give her some tough stuff since the basics were there. Nikki doesn't seem totally incapable, but she does come across more tentatively, as though she still needs to think through each dance -- it doesn't necessarily come naturally to her. I think of the contemporary and the step-pause-do next thing-pause-get assisted into next move feel of that number; it was missing a fluidity and I don't think it's that Artem couldn't choreograph it (he's done good contemporaries in the past), but that Nikki struggled to supply the connective tissue, so to speak.

[katha]

I agree on the difference between Nikki and Nancy. Nikki may be younger and more athletic, but she isn't musical, doesn't have a performance background and isn't a natural at grasping performance or the coordination of movement needed for dancing. All of which Nancy had, she knew how to present dances. Nikki comes across as tentative and in her head in the dances, no matter how self-confident she's outside of performances. Which might not be only a bad thing, since it means she's self-aware enough to know that it doesn't come easy to her. Agree that Artem's work for Nancy was stronger, but again, she was also IMO a much more capable partner. With Nikki, I suspect he's struggling to give her something she can pull off half way convincingly. And he probably needs to spend a lot more time teaching her movement and performance aspects than he did with Nancy, that also eats up hours. Though I thought that this week's dance was good, perhaps she's improved enough by now that the dances will get better as well?

[Emily-D]

Nancy was a far more capable partner than Nikki. People I think can be blinded by the fact that Nikki is a 30 something attractive women so therefore assume she’ll be a good dancer. When the reality is that she has zero dance background, her occupation couldn’t be any further from that of a dancer, she relies on upper body strength in the ring to make up for her lack of speed and athleticism (not good for a prospective dancer) and then you have her neck limitations. I think Artem choreographs to cater for her limitations. Also anyone having watched Nikki on her reality shows will know she’s not the sharpest knife in the drawer (to put it politely) whereas Nancy was a hugely intelligent woman. I bet it took less than half the time for Artem to teach choreo to Nancy than it does to Nikki. Obviously being a former figure skater who performed to music, she’s also going to have far better rhythm and musicality. I said earlier in the thread, Nikki is the female Drew, Nancy should have been a finalist and it still makes me angry the way she was treated last season. I always end up going off on a rant when talking about her, she deserved so much better.

Edited October 22, 2017 by Emily-D

[Andie1]

Nancy is a beautiful dancer. Nancy had all the ability to get to top 3 maybe higher, but the audience bagged her. The sad truth about the demographics for this show is if you are a woman past 35 you're toast off the start.  I hate to say it but women are the worst misogynists, the demo is far older than Nancy Kerrigan and yet they call her "old". 

The ONLY woman over 35 in 25 seasons to get to top tier and win was Jennifer Grey.  Jen would win from the start because she tapped into the nostalgia for a beloved dance film, her first dance went right to Dirty Dancing, and the sorrow in the loss of Patrick Swayze.  That was it.

I thought Nancy with her lyrical stylings danced very much like Jennifer, lovely dance position, nice foot placement, and I was miffed that it didn't get her further. Nancy SHOULD have got to top 3 on her Samba alone.  I loved the Pretty Woman Tango better than the first time it was performed, but of course it was a younger woman who did it.  Artem was at his best dancing with Nancy, because he could envision her doing ballroom and latin the way it is designed to be performed.  He is not comfortable with the in your face sex that has to sell Nikki, but it is what is keeping her around.  This is how she wishes to be portrayed, her lack of ability notwithstanding. 

[BW Manilowe]

Trivial, perhaps, but I didn't think the new Kermit the Frog voice was that great--& I thought, when it was originally changed & I heard it on a YouTube video, it was reasonably accurate. But on DWTS, I didn't think the voice artist hit nearly enough of Kermit's higher registers; the voice sounded a little too deep for me.

[majormama]

Are there no recaps this season? I miss them. 

[SnarkyTart]

2 hours ago, majormama said:

Are there no recaps this season? I miss them. 

I miss them too.  Here's the explanation:

[jay741982]

On 10/16/2017 at 10:20 PM, irisheyes said:

They butchered it pretty badly.  I still don't understand why they just don't use the originals. It's DISNEY!!

Well if you believe Tom and Erin every week the band is so Amazing! Even though to me and others they butcher great songs almost every week lol

[majormama]

One of the lady singers is decent. But that man who has the Sinatra-esque voice is particularly bad. I always cringe when he sings.

[aamankwah]

On 10/16/2017 at 10:10 PM, Lady Calypso said:

God, as soon as Frankie/Witney were named the second couple in danger, I pretty much teared up and almost had to walk out of the room. I got worried so, so quickly that they'd be gone. I just thought that this was going to be the surprise elimination that I'd hate. 

Sasha/Gleb wasn't ideal either, but I'm also ok with it. She was next after Nick on my to-go list. I guess those boy band fans are keeping Nick in the competition. 

Frankie/Witney's dance was phenomenal. Unfortunately, my TV decided to reboot its box right before the scores were announced, so I'll have to watch that moment on Youtube.

Lindsey/Mark's dance was pretty damn good too. I thought it was gorgeous, but how did she only get one 10?

I knew that Jordan/Lindsay were getting a perfect score once Frankie got the 29. I knew they didn't want to have the highest score be a 29. Not that it wasn't good, but I'm starting to see similar issues that I had with Normani's dances. Just swap the props and backup dancers constantly in Normani's dances for the first half with Jordan/Lindsay doing the same moves in each dance. They started off this dance like some of their others (back to each other, twirl toward each other, hands go up in the air, etc). All I could think was "I've seen these two start this way before." So, beautiful dance, but I already knew what was coming. Also, like Normani, I was annoyed that Jordan got to dance to his own song. Like...he's already a good dancer. He doesn't need the special features! 

Nikki's dance was fun. I knew very little about Coco and I'm not jumping up to see it, but I'm all for new POC princesses.

Nick/Peta's dance was ok. I thought it deserved what it got, though I wouldn't have complained for one more 8. 

I missed Drew/Emma's dance completely, but caught the Kermit with the little Disney 10. That was cute.

I also missed Terrell/Cheryl's dance, though part of me is afraid to go searching for it. Not because of the dance, of course, but because I don't think I can bear listening to the band butcher my favourite Disney song ever. You just don't butcher The Lion King. How badly did they butcher it?

I thought Vanessa/Maks' dance was good, but I LOL'd when Nick's dance ended and the shot cut to a lonely Vanessa. I guess Maks took off. 

Overall, I just have to hope that Frankie/Witney get high scores and get to the finals. I simply don't think I can bear them being a surprise elimination. But, unfortunately, I'm afraid that they don't have the votes because others might have bigger fanbases. 

I think the main character of Coco is a boy so I think maybe POC prince?

[madpsych78]

On 10/22/2017 at 8:55 AM, Andie1 said:

Nancy is a beautiful dancer. Nancy had all the ability to get to top 3 maybe higher, but the audience bagged her. The sad truth about the demographics for this show is if you are a woman past 35 you're toast off the start.  I hate to say it but women are the worst misogynists, the demo is far older than Nancy Kerrigan and yet they call her "old". 

The ONLY woman over 35 in 25 seasons to get to top tier and win was Jennifer Grey.  Jen would win from the start because she tapped into the nostalgia for a beloved dance film, her first dance went right to Dirty Dancing, and the sorrow in the loss of Patrick Swayze.  That was it.

I thought Nancy with her lyrical stylings danced very much like Jennifer, lovely dance position, nice foot placement, and I was miffed that it didn't get her further. Nancy SHOULD have got to top 3 on her Samba alone.  I loved the Pretty Woman Tango better than the first time it was performed, but of course it was a younger woman who did it.  Artem was at his best dancing with Nancy, because he could envision her doing ballroom and latin the way it is designed to be performed.  He is not comfortable with the in your face sex that has to sell Nikki, but it is what is keeping her around.  This is how she wishes to be portrayed, her lack of ability notwithstanding. 

How old were Brooke Burke and Kristi Yamaguchi when they won? 

[PBGamer89]

4 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

How old were Brooke Burke and Kristi Yamaguchi when they won? 

Kristi was 36 when she won, Brooke was also 36.

[Andie1]

I stand corrected by a year. Point is no woman past mid 30’s can have a hope in hell of winning. The women who watch won’t have it. 

Edited October 24, 2017 by Andie1

[boyznkatz]

5 hours ago, Andie1 said:

I stand corrected by a year. Point is no woman past mid 30’s can have a hope in hell of winning. The women who watch won’t have it. 

I agree. Nancy Kerrigan was robbed. She was the same age as phony Donny Osmond, but was a far better dancer.

[vibeology]

5 hours ago, Andie1 said:

I stand corrected by a year. Point is no woman past mid 30’s can have a hope in hell of winning. The women who watch won’t have it. 

I don't think this is just on the audience, though they play a apart. Another part of the problem is the show pairs up "older" (And I really hate using that word) celebrity women with either new pros, less popular pros or "older" pros/pros who read more mature despite their age. The few times a woman over 35 won, they were paired with Derek or Mark. I think if you gave Val or Mark or Derek a Jennifer Grey equivalent in terms of fame and ability, they'd at least make the finals.

The issue on the show is that while the female pros have been rotated in and out a few times and you still have very popular dancers I don't think they've been as successful with the male pros. For years, Derek, Mark and Maks and later Val were given the strongest contenders on paper every year and did well. But that created a situation where the other male pros never really got to develop fanbases and didn't get to hone their DWTS skills. Choreographing for this show is a skill. Pacing out a whole season is a skill. The bulk of the guys don't have it because the cult of personality around both the Fam and the Ballas/Houghs ate up all the space for three or four years and the show hasn't yet recovered in terms of male talent (not dance as much as TV show savvy) and experience.

[Andie1]

But when Hough won with Jen it was back in Season 11,  With Brooke season 7, with Kristie it was back in Season 6,  these are in the first 5 years of the show,  the present day nobody even considers an older female as a contender off the hop.  Nancy was a contender, and Artem had his best choreography ever on this show.  So what happens? 

The showrunners dropped her because 5th Harmony was the new Disney find, regardless if Nancy was a great fan of the show, she really was a fan, but for some reason oh yeah,  5th Harmony, dwts seemed to let their ice skating affliations float away.. It was no longer necessary to mention Stars on Ice anymore.  After all they won with Meryl and Kristie         

[RomanKat]

9 hours ago, Andie1 said:

I stand corrected by a year. Point is no woman past mid 30’s can have a hope in hell of winning. The women who watch won’t have it. 

Brooke was 37, as were Emmitt Smith and Donald Driver when they won.  With respect to winning DWTS, men past 37 haven't done much better than women past 37.   Only Alfonso Ribeiro and Donny Osmond were older, respectively 43 and 51.  Mirror balls have been a young (i.e. under 38) celebrities' game.

Edited October 24, 2017 by RomanKat

[Andie1]

19 minutes ago, RomanKat said:

Brooke was 37, as were Emmitt Smith and Donald Driver when they won.  With respect to winning DWTS, men past 37 haven't done much better than women past 37.   Only Alfonso Ribeiro and Donny Osmond were older, respectively 43 and 51.  Mirror balls have been a young (i.e. under 38) celebrities' game.

Alfonso and Donny I count more than one female and if you squint you can see John O'Hurley winning the dance off, so that's 3. And how about Jerry Rice, and David Ross, as top 2 ?

[OnceSane]

Topic, y'all.  Get back on it.