S04.E01: The Flash Reborn

[GHScorpiosRule]

So I’m rewatching now and @Rachel RSL, the red doohickey Cisco worked on with Caitlin’s help has Barry’s genetic marker, so when shot with the “Speedforce bazooka” will pull Barry out, but will trick the Speedforce into thinking that Barry is still in there. It’s called the Quartz Sphere. ???

[Rachel RSL]

Haha thanks for investigating! I forgot that this show and its technobabble & time loops is too much for my pea brain sometimes.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, Rachel RSL said:

Haha thanks for investigating! I forgot that this show and its technobabble & time loops is too much for my pea brain sometimes.

??????

[Grace19]

Great start to the season. I loved every character on screen, everyones storyline was compelling from barry to iris, cisco and caitlin.

Grant is a great actor he did good with crazy barry and candice was perfect in her role too, these two together are magic. Yes the resolution to crazy barry was cheesy but that is what the show has always been, cheesy, so it was ok with me. I loved cisco and iris scenes too, they play off each other well.

Joe shaving Barry was one of my favourites in this episode. Of course the Barry/Iris we got were my favourites too. The westallen scene in the field was shot beautifully and I'm glad that the westallen chemistry is still strong and maybe even better.

The thinker looks like a good villain and I'm glad we are done with speedsters as villains. Barry stopped the samurai alone without help, looking forward to more of that.

This season has the potential to be the best yet with the lighter tone and smarter Barry.

[TV Anonymous]

I do not like Barry's breaking the wall of the Pipeline. It seems like breaking a comic's canon. If The Flash is able to break it, what stops other meta-humans to do so? If so, what is the purpose of the Pipeline anymore?

Cisco: "...you have two doctorates and a PhD!" What is the 'D' in 'PhD', Sisco?

Edited October 12, 2017 by TV Anonymous

[johntfs]

6 minutes ago, TV Anonymous said:

I do not like Barry's breaking the wall of the Pipeline. It seems like breaking a comic's canon. If The Flash is able to break it, what stops other meta-humans to do so? If so, what is the purpose of the Pipeline anymore?

To imprison dangerous, criminal metahumans until they can be transferred to the Iron Heights metahuman holding cells.  Everything has limits and Barry has grown beyond those of the Pipeline to contain him. 

[DigitalCount]

I'm just surprised Eobard couldn't break it, but I guess Barry is finally the fastest man alive as evidenced by this episode.

I had to laugh when Wally showed off his Japanese skills. Speaking as someone who was Wally once upon a time (the black engineering student part, not the speedster part) that was one of the most realistic parts of the show to date. Whenever I go to a gaming tournament or an anime convention, at least half the people there are skinny black guys with Naruto headbands, so props to that.

[KirkB]

1 hour ago, DigitalCount said:

I'm just surprised Eobard couldn't break it, but I guess Barry is finally the fastest man alive as evidenced by this episode.

To be fair, Eobard helped create the pipeline. And the one time he was in it, he WANTED to be there. There is pretty much nothing that can hold a speedster when they really want out.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I wish they'd come up with a different title for this episode. Every time I see it, my mind automatically goes to "The Demon Reborn," from New Adventures of Batman/Superman, on the Superman episode, though that episode should have been on the Batman one since it was about Bats chasing after Ra's Al Ghul.

Edited October 12, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[Trini]

Shallow notes:
Cisco's hair still looks great, but I was hoping they'd stick with whatever they were doing at the end of last season, where it was wavy. (I think it was air dried instead of blowdried?)

And I like Candice's haircut, but now it's similar to Cisco's!

They're letting Keiynan's style bleed into Wally's -- besides his relaxed hair, he's now wearing earrings.

Caitlin in more casual outfits was a change, but will they actually stick with that once she's fully back on the team? The wardrobe dept. tends to always have the women 'dressed up'.

I think that's the longest Grant's hair has been on the show. He looked really different with the beard. Too bad it takes the whole hiatus to grow (sorry, Grant!); I don't think we'll be seeing it again any time soon.

... But they could let Cisco/Carlos grow out some scruff, at least. Just let him look like an adult, show!

No new sets, so far, this season, and while there are new consoles, STAR Labs looks pretty much the same. ...Where do they get the money to do all these improvements?

ETA:
So how many boxes did Candice have to stand on to do those kiss scenes?

It sounds like they made new music for this season.

Edited October 12, 2017 by Trini

[Simba122504]

Yes, those were past and future lines. Barry will go to prison in the future and it was shown in S1 or S2. I didn't care for the SP on Tuesday night but after seeing it a second time. I like it a little bit more.

[RedVitC]

 I just had a thought. Isn't Caitlin technically still someone the police are looking for? 

[dkb]

On 10/10/2017 at 10:01 PM, RedVitC said:

-However...we literally did the  -i'm afraid of the person/my powers inside me - loses control - is brought back - 3 times already last season. And the thing is, they introduced the cure. Before the cure, in a way there was a mitigating factor in that she couldn't get rid of them. But she had a chance to get rid of the powers/person inside and chose not tot (and the cure is still lying there somewhere) so any bad deeds that she now does under it's control don't have those mitigating factors any longer. 

-And Barry and Iris are beautiful. 

Agree with your entire post @RedVitC but especially about Caitlin. Her story seems to be a retread again. I don't care about Killer Frost at all.

On 10/10/2017 at 10:39 PM, ruby24 said:

I don't think Caitlin should have been forgiven so easily for trying to kill everyone on the team. Come on. 

At least Iris was kind of snarky to her, but then Cisco and company changed the subject. Let Iris be mad.

On 10/11/2017 at 1:04 AM, Trini said:

I thought this was a good start for the season; excited to see how the things they set up play out - except for one arc.

-----------

Peekaboo! Glad they started with an action scene; the rest of the beginning was kinda sad. Loved seeing the team work together! 4-hour training? Ha - Iris keeps a tight ship.

Wally knows Japanese? Hee! I’ll bet he’s the vice president of the anime club/Japan society at CCU.

Wow, Cecile moving in? I guess Joe/Cecile really are progressing!

Sabbatical to Czechoslovakia? That's the ecuse for Barry's absence?? How did they explain him showing up naked and crazy in Keystone?? Please, show; tell me Captain Singh knows. He HAS to know!

Like the new graphics. Although, the CGI in the final action scene was a bit sketchy.

Another ‘Trial of the Flash’ tease?

Iris activating Barry’s powers with her touch - again!
Iris - Come get me.
DementiaBarry - Yes, ma’am!

I really would have preferred that Barry wasn’t pulled out of the speed force, but instead left himself (somehow). It just makes me feel that it’s going to come back and bite everyone later.

When Barry lost Iris, Team Flash fell apart; but when Iris lost Barry she kept everyone together.

There really was a lot of Cisco and Iris in this. Liked that they showed the different ways everyone was dealing with Barry being gone; and they got to express their feelings. (Except Wally?)
Poor Wally. He has to be Kid Flash then nobody wants to be on Team Kid Flash.

Well, all the Barry/Iris scenes left me a mess, so good job, show (and Grant and Candice). It was heartbreaking when Iris was finally able to be vulnerable when Barry returned; and awesome that she knew she could bring him back. I might have let out some squeeing noises at that kiss in the field. Maybe.

 

I figured Caitlin would be back with the team soon; but besides one apology to one person, nearly everything from last season has  been swept under the rug. And they’re still going with the Jekyll/Hyde interpretation of Caitlin's powers/Killer Frost. So her story is going to continue to blow this season too. Got it, show.

 

Like your post @Trini.  I got something in my eye during that scene in the field.

On 10/11/2017 at 1:16 AM, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

-  There were some slight nitpicks, but nothing to really waste time talking about.

-  This season premiere blew the last two out of the water, especially last season's.

-  Can't be mad about 'Happy Barry' and now being able to truly own the mantle of "Fastest Man Alive".  It was funny for all the wrong reasons, but the paraphrased line about Barry 'finally being unarguably faster than you, Wally' was just so wrong.  He always should have been faster than Wally.

-  I do (somewhat) worry that the writers will mess up some good things by trying to force an OTT angsty storyline about messed up timelines because Barry was released from the SF prison, or at least when he was.  We've had enough of that in the last two seasons, TPTB, so just please no.

-  So is that the going theory?  That Barry was spouting lines from his past (obviously) but the gibberish is future events that are yet to happen, and we'll see play out later??  I like that, both the idea and potential execution.   "We're gonna need more diapers."  

-  Could really do without the on-going constant struggle of Caitlin trying to fight off the KF persona & tendencies, but maybe they'll not overdo it.  (not holding breath, though)   I could get behind it if they have her use the powers for good, like out in the field with the team.

-  Speaking of team, looks like Vibe is going to be a lot more proactive. 

-  And let's hear it for S1&2!Cisco.  Compared to you-killed-Dante-you-bastard(S3)!Cisco, its very awesome to see him return to form.

-  At first, I was a little ticked that they had Iris consider/believe Barry was dead (or very good chance he could be) and not even having a slight hope of seeing him again.  But I quickly realized that was mostly just a defensive coping mechanism.  Didn't want to keep false hope, etc.  But having her take over as team leader really brings her character to the forefront.  Hope that continues.

IF the general feel of this season opener continues, I'm glad to have The Flash back. 

Happy Barry, is the best Barry. 

 

On 10/11/2017 at 2:59 AM, Bats27 said:

Can we just let Caitlin control her powers and be an anti-hero already?  This "she cannot control her powers" plot has gotten really old by this point.

I'm starting to really dislike Caitlins character.

 

On 10/11/2017 at 0:25 PM, Quark said:

I just love Iris.

I do too! She's the best, and I'm so envious of her wardrobe. 

 

15 hours ago, Grace19 said:

Great start to the season. I loved every character on screen, everyones storyline was compelling from barry to iris, cisco and caitlin.

Grant is a great actor he did good with crazy barry and candice was perfect in her role too, these two together are magic. Yes the resolution to crazy barry was cheesy but that is what the show has always been, cheesy, so it was ok with me. I loved cisco and iris scenes too, they play off each other well.

Joe shaving Barry was one of my favourites in this episode. Of course the Barry/Iris we got were my favourites too. The westallen scene in the field was shot beautifully and I'm glad that the westallen chemistry is still strong and maybe even better.

 

Seriously, that kissing scene in the field with the sun behind them was gorgeous. I love WestAllen so much. Please no drama between them this season. Also Grant Gustin with a beard was hot! 

[Trini]

4 hours ago, RedVitC said:

 I just had a thought. Isn't Caitlin technically still someone the police are looking for? 

Yep. But who knows if that will ever come up again. Or if she and Iris will address her part in the plot to kill Iris.

I just don't know what else can be said about Caitlin. Everyone hated her powers manifesting as an evil alternate personality, but they're still going in that direction. She still can't control her powers/Killer Frost, and she's still not being honest with the rest of the team. If the showrunners actually had the guts to make Caitlin go bad last season, this season could have been her redemption story.

One good thing though: Looks like Armen & Co. figured out how to seamlessly go between Caitlin and Killer Frost. I thought that effect looked really good; especially her hair changing color.

[ruby24]

I don't actually mind the Jekyll/Hyde thing in theory, but I feel like it hasn't been executed well at all. If her alter ego is evil, then she really needs to be pure evil. They keep trying to have it both ways. Last year after the transformation happened it really didn't seem that hard to get through to the real Caitlin. She kept wavering, which suggested that Caitlin DID have control over herself, and KF never actually killed anyone, so she wasn't ALL bad, apparently.

I could handle it if Killer Frost really was a purely evil killer and the real Caitlin had no memory of her evil deeds, etc. Like turning into a werewolf or something. Even with the Jekyll/Hyde story, Hyde is a BAD dude and it's not really Jekyll's fault. But they don't want to commit to that either. They're too afraid that wouldn't be able to redeem Caitlin or something. But they could definitely make it clear that Caitlin and KF are too separate people if they wanted to. They haven't done that.

Edited October 13, 2017 by ruby24

[KirkB]

6 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I don't actually mind the Jekyll/Hyde thing in theory, but I feel like it hasn't been executed well at all

That's my issue too. It's not a bad idea, in theory, but my biggest problem with it is Caitlin is literally the only person in the history of the series who has ever had this problem. Barry, Peekaboo, Girder, Wally, Jessie, even Thawne, all of them are exactly the same people as they were before, just with superpowers. How is Caitlin the only one whose powers seem to have manifested in her as another personality? Oddly the character as she is in the comics kind of had an explanation and was allowed to actually be more evil but they don't seem to want to got that route.

[Ottis]

On 10/10/2017 at 9:00 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Barry!!! Happy, Light? ADORKABLE Barry is BACK!!!!!! PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE let him stay!!

I don't think that's our Barry. Or at least something is wrong with him that we will learn about later. That whole scene at the end was off, and the music cues were off. Like he was trying really hard to not say something that would be a downer to Iris - or to not twirl a moustache. Maybe he was programmed while in the speed force,and it will come out later.

I thought the bad guy was

Spoiler

Brainiac, that's a DC universe villain, isn't it? I don't read comics so I have no idea.

All that said, I agree it was a fun episode. Getting Barry back (whichever Barry this is) - after six months - was contrived. But they had to start somewhere. I like the new Caitlyn who seems to be about 70 percent Caitlyn and 30 percent Killer Frost at all times when not "frosty." She has more swagger.

[GHScorpiosRule]

On 10/13/2017 at 3:53 PM, Ottis said:

I don't think that's our Barry. Or at least something is wrong with him that we will learn about later. That whole scene at the end was off, and the music cues were off. Like he was trying really hard to not say something that would be a downer to Iris - or to not twirl a moustache. Maybe he was programmed while in the speed force,and it will come out later.

LALALALALAAAAAA?????????????????? I can't hear youuuuuu!!!!!!! LALALALALALALALALALALALAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!?????????????????????????

???

On 10/13/2017 at 3:53 PM, Ottis said:

I thought the bad guy was

Spoiler

Braniac, that's a DC universe villain, isn't it? I don't read comics so I have no idea.

 

Spoiler

No, that's not Brainiac. And yes, he is a Superman villain, an AI of Krypton. Plus, Brainiac was never hooked up to a machine like this Thinker was. And he was a loner. No assistants, side kicks, etc for it.

[Trini]

2 hours ago, Ottis said:

I don't think that's our Barry. Or at least something is wrong with him that we will learn about later.

I think it is 'our Barry'; however, I do hope they revisit what happened to him in the Speed Force, and what went on with the Team. But based on how they've handled the hiatuses in the past, I know it's very unlikely.

[Iceman91]

I know we shouldn't think too hard about this things but it bothers me that Cisco can trick the speed force with an object containing Barry's DNA or something like that when the speed force has been shown to be a sentient force capable of taking a human appearance and interacting directly with Barry. 

[KirkB]

4 hours ago, Iceman91 said:

I know we shouldn't think too hard about this things but it bothers me that Cisco can trick the speed force with an object containing Barry's DNA or something like that when the speed force has been shown to be a sentient force capable of taking a human appearance and interacting directly with Barry.

I kind of want the speed force to show up in one of Cisco's vibes, as Gypsy or something, just to point out it wasn't fooled and LET them have Barry.

[johntfs]

7 hours ago, Iceman91 said:

I know we shouldn't think too hard about this things but it bothers me that Cisco can trick the speed force with an object containing Barry's DNA or something like that when the speed force has been shown to be a sentient force capable of taking a human appearance and interacting directly with Barry. 

Cisco thinks of it as "tricking" the Speed Force, but that's mostly because he's antagonistic towards it since it took his best friend away presumably forever.  It's more about finding an acceptable substitute for Barry (or Wally or Jay or Savitar) to maintain the Speed Force's stability.  The Speed Force doesn't care about being "tricked."  As long as the hole is filled, the need is met and the stability is maintained, it's fine with the BarryBall instead of Barry.

Unless it's not.  In which case we'll probably find that out soon enough.

[kelaney]

Quote

On 10/11/2017 at 3:07 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Yes. Cisco had created this red doohickey that would take the place of Barry and fool the Speed Force into thinking that Barry was still in there...or something. Remember when he shot out that thingamajig, and we saw Barry speed out and disappear? They thought it didn't work, but the next minute, Barry is zipping around over the country? Before he stopped that truck and passed out.

 

 I love your wording.  It would seem that in the initial drafts of the scripts the writers use similar wording and then fill in later with science-y mumbo jumbo.

[KirkB]

Having thought about it I find the idea the speed force can't tell the difference between Barry Allen and a lump of metal utterly hilarious.

[DearEvette]

On 10/12/2017 at 3:32 PM, DigitalCount said:

 I guess Barry is finally the fastest man alive as evidenced by this episode.

This totally cracks me up.  My husband who is a major comic book nerd for years (his collection in boxes, sealed, temperature controlled... that type of nerd) couldn't watch the show because he'd get sooo frustrated that slow people could out maneuver Barry in cases when Barry's speed shouldn't have allowed for it.  I laughed so hard because last season my husband  actually watched an episode where Catilyn as KF ran out of a building and disappeared and Barry couldn't catch her. My husband  got so mad and left in disgust.  Everytime the opening came on where Barry would say "I'm Barry Allen, the fastest man alive" my husband would snark "shouldn't there be an asterisk there."  I told him I think it is finally true this year!

[KirkB]

8 hours ago, DearEvette said:

My husband who is a major comic book nerd for years (his collection in boxes, sealed, temperature controlled... that type of nerd) couldn't watch the show because he'd get sooo frustrated that slow people could out maneuver Barry in cases when Barry's speed shouldn't have allowed for it. 

See, for most of the first season I had the same problem. But thinking back to the ten years I spent watching Smallville I came to understand that if any of these people used their powers even half as well as they 'should' most episodes would be like 5 minutes long.

[sarthaz]

On 10/15/2017 at 0:37 PM, DearEvette said:

This totally cracks me up.  My husband who is a major comic book nerd for years (his collection in boxes, sealed, temperature controlled... that type of nerd) couldn't watch the show because he'd get sooo frustrated that slow people could out maneuver Barry in cases when Barry's speed shouldn't have allowed for it.  I laughed so hard because last season my husband  actually watched an episode where Catilyn as KF ran out of a building and disappeared and Barry couldn't catch her. My husband  got so mad and left in disgust.  Everytime the opening came on where Barry would say "I'm Barry Allen, the fastest man alive" my husband would snark "shouldn't there be an asterisk there."  I told him I think it is finally true this year!

Basically the plot of every single episode.  I know there's a lot of suspension of disbelief required, but I wish they'd come up with a way to explain how every dime-store villain is fast enough to outrun or outmaneuver the "fastest man alive".  He's supposedly faster than ever now, but there are still going to be 3 bad guys this season with ray-guns that can shoot him and another 5 who can straight-up outrun him.

Overall, I liked this episode.  It was't stellar, but definitely better than last year.  I like that they let the episode end with Barry and Iris in a happy place and not the predictable bombshell that all is not what it seems.  Let it breathe for a minute.  Also, love that they gave Iris something to do.  I don't particularly buy her running Team Not-Kid-Flash, but it's better than her being a pointless distressed damsel.  Parker's the best actor on that show right now, so I'm glad they're trying to do something with her.

[Trini]

A few re-watch thoughts:
Grant and Candice were the MVPs here; their scenes were heartbreaking when Barry was still in his Speed Force Dementia, and amazing after.

Hee! Now Barry is officially the Streak...er. ::crosses item off wishlist::

I think Joe might have saved Cisco's life after "you don't even want him back" - Iris was about to roast him I think! But I did like that we got a variety of interactions between the characters that are not Barry. Although I was hoping there'd more between Iris and Caitlin.

Wally got shortchanged, though. (Not new...) And they had to incapacitate him for Barry to save Iris -- which is fine, except how are they going to handle the overpowered team of speedsters and Vibe for the rest of the season?

They really showed how Cisco would do anything for his friends. (Still hate that they killed off Dante, the only family of his we knew, because he should have relationships outside of STAR Labs.)

I like that the last WestAllen scene was bittersweet -- showing that while Barry thinks everything is awesome, Iris still has feelings about him being gone. Looking forward to them picking that up later.

Hey, first time we've seen the Big Bad's face at the start of the season!

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

So, I liked the scene when they used 'Barry's DNA ball' to put it in the SF so it would release Barry.  But I can't but wonder who had the better reaction to (seemingly) positive results happening at the time.  Cisco, or this kid?

[millennium]

Meh, one of the weakest stories in a long time, I thought.

It should have been more difficult to pry Barry from the Speed Force.   The fact that it wasn't undercuts the Speed Force's power and magnificence.   

The resolution to crazy Barry was corny in the extreme.  All it lacked was Huey Lewis singing "The Power of Love." 

I think a lightning rod salesman could really clean up in Central City.

[AudienceofOne]

As far as I can tell, Samuroid's great plan was to destroy a wind farm. I think maybe the Big Bad this season is Trump.

That was actually a pretty solid season opener. Since these shows seem to be determined to restore the status quo ASAP in a season opener, then they did a solid job of that without brushing the cliffhanger under the carpet. I think it should have been two episodes with Cisco working on getting Barry back in part one and then dealing with the fallout in part two. But I'll take it over the Arrow pretending their cliffhanger never happened.