GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[GHScorpiosRule]

And it's not a Romeo and Juliet/star-crossed lovers story to have kids of rivals fall in love. It's never about the kids, it's always about the dumb conflict. Zzzz. Everyone seems to forget those two dolts killed themselves at the end. Hardly romantic.

 

 

Andy Griffith's rendition, or rather, Andy Taylor telling this story to Opie, of this story is the only one that makes that story romantic, heh.

[ulkis]

I think Romeo and Juliet is romantic in a ridiculous, melodramatic, don't try this at home kids, kinda way. It's over-the-top and meant to be so.

Which I think can be applied to soaps if done right, but not on this soap, not anymore.

[dubbel zout]

I agree with all of what you wrote, ulkis, but I also think that even aside from the double suicide at the end, people who want to rip it off forget that Romeo and Juliet didn't know who the other was when they first met. That's where a lot of the gut punch was. On the soaps I've recently seen it used, the kids knew each other and their families. That's not R&J, and it's barely forbidden love. Yet the stories are always hyped as such, and they always fall flat because the complexity that was R&J isn't there.

Edited October 12, 2015 by dubbel zout

[ulkis]

On the soaps I've recently seen it used, the kids knew each other and their families.

Ah, good point.

[Ambrosefolly]

The real ironiy in R&J is that Juliet's dad stopped giving a shit about the feud and didn't throw Romeo out of the party because he heard he was a nice kid. If Juliet would have admitted that she had married Romeo, her dad would have been fine and Romeo's dad would have come around and the Verona would have breathed a sigh of relief that the blood feud would finally have ended. 

 

History, history...I watched more the preBorg Courtney, and she is just a better character being devoted to AJ. It really illustrated the difference of a character being supportive of someone vs enabling someone. In the clip where Courtney called out Sonny using Jason to threaten AJ, Sonny completed deflected her by bring up AJ paying off someone to declare Carly dead. Keep in mind he didn't physically do anything to Carly, but everyone acted like he kidnapped her, hang her on a meathook and threaten to stage her death. 

[ulkis]

Woo, finally found the dialogue where Lucky said all of Luke's blathering about hating the house was revisionist history:

 

7/12/11

 

Siobhan: Suppose, in a way, I--thank you. I owe you an apology.

 

Lucky: What, for nearly dying in a fire that I set?

 

Siobhan: Well, if I thought it through, I had a little more faith, I'd have realized that you were burning a house. You weren't trying to kill yourself.

 

Lucky: Oh, I see. So it's your fault for not knowing that I was being selfish and arrogant, and not suicidal. I like that. It's not bad.

 

Siobhan: Can we just both say that we were both sorely out of our minds that night and just leave it at that?

 

Lucky: I guess so. You know, my mom loved that house, and my sister grew up there. And now, it's just ashes. I can't even remember what I was trying to accomplish.

 

Siobhan: Closure? Break from the past? Or maybe it was a tribute to your father, since you said Luke always wanted the place gone.

 

Lucky: Yeah, but that was revisionist history. There were plenty of times when he was happy there. He just doesn't want to remember them.

 

Siobhan: Maybe it was just too painful. Looking back, remembering happiness, being able to see clearly how you lost it--that has to be torture.

 

Lucky: Yeah. It's easier to tell yourself that you were never happy and that you just wanted to be free.

 

Siobhan: Guilt and grief, they're terrible burdens for Luke and for you.

 

[dubbel zout]

In that picture, they look like they accidentally wandered into Central Perk.

[TeeVee329]

Has Anna ever had scenes with Kevin before?

[UYI]

Has Anna ever had scenes with Kevin before?

 

I want to say they had scenes together in early 2013, when Lucy was put in jail after stabbing McBain over the vampire stuff, but don't quote me on that. 

 

Alan being cute with a little girl patient in 1991. Awww. (The little girl, BTW, is Rachel Duncan, who played the youngest daughter on The Torkelsons).

 

Edited October 17, 2015 by UYI

[cmahorror]

Okay - a little flashback for you guys - this is from Night Shift.

 

I give you Robert's coma dream with appearances by Mac, Sean, Tiffany and Luke (and a cameo from a shirtless Antonio Sabato Jr.). I don't know how to edit out all the other stuff in the episode but the Scorpio scenes are great.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iueH5ZHaCds&index=61&list=PL302CC8BED83C88B5

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNOO8rLeP7Q&list=PL302CC8BED83C88B5&index=62

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prmdfBuAUoU&list=PL302CC8BED83C88B5&index=63

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_5fe-Q3VBg&list=PL302CC8BED83C88B5&index=64

 

[UYI]

Vintage Sonny. What a prince. /sarcasm

 

[ulkis]

Yeah. When I go back and look at old school clips, Sonny was still kind of a giant asshole. But I guess it's magnified in hind sight. 

 

Man, I loved Luke's club. Still probably my favorite set.

 

ETA: Was that in 1995 or 1996?

Edited October 20, 2015 by ulkikis

[UYI]

And more vintage douchey Sonny. At least Brenda got to slap him here.

 

Yeah. When I go back and look at old school clips, Sonny was still kind of a giant asshole. But I guess it's magnified in hind sight. 

 

Man, I loved Luke's club. Still probably my favorite set.

 

ETA: Was that in 1995 or 1996?

 

1995.

[SlovakPrincess]

Yep, Sonny has been a giant jerk for 20 years - 20 YEARS WE'VE ENDURED HIM!

 

Those Night Shift clips are, sadly, probably the last time anyone wrote my beloved Scorpio family with care and attention to their true characters.  :(

Probably will be the last time, period.   I'm choosing to believe the last 3 years have been another coma dream of Robert's --- but this time a horrible nightmare. 

[Harmony233]

Those scorpio scenes on nightshift was so good.Then I'll go watch old port charles eps where they have some good Baldwin family scenes.Its just depressing the corthinthos is the family this show cares about.I've already mentione the Quatermaines and how they like have three  members left.

[UYI]

Yep, Sonny has been a giant jerk for 20 years - 20 YEARS WE'VE ENDURED HIM!

 

Those Night Shift clips are, sadly, probably the last time anyone wrote my beloved Scorpio family with care and attention to their true characters.  :(

Probably will be the last time, period.   I'm choosing to believe the last 3 years have been another coma dream of Robert's --- but this time a horrible nightmare. 

 

YMMV, but both late 2012 and especially late 2013, I think, had some Scorpio scenes that rang true for me.

[tallyrand]

I have a question for all the long time viewers! I have been seeing posts on other boards about how Laura is passive aggressive and all that jazz.  I don't know enough GH history to know if that's true (and of course that is a subjective opinion).  But all I have seen of Laura in my limited days of watching (since 2006 onward) have been led me to have a pretty positive opinion of her (her blatant favoring of Lucky and Lulu over Nikolas aside).  So I was wondering if anyone could just enlighten me a little as to her history.  Thanks in advance!

[KerleyQ]

I have a question for all the long time viewers! I have been seeing posts on other boards about how Laura is passive aggressive and all that jazz.  I don't know enough GH history to know if that's true (and of course that is a subjective opinion).  But all I have seen of Laura in my limited days of watching (since 2006 onward) have been led me to have a pretty positive opinion of her (her blatant favoring of Lucky and Lulu over Nikolas aside).  So I was wondering if anyone could just enlighten me a little as to her history.  Thanks in advance!

 

I would say that, of her, Luke, Lucky, and Lulu (hell, and Nik), she's the least passive-aggressive.   If these are recent discussions, I'd assume it's mostly fans pissed that she didn't rat out Liz and Nik.  

[Tiger]

I would say that, of her, Luke, Lucky, and Lulu (hell, and Nik), she's the least passive-aggressive.   If these are recent discussions, I'd assume it's mostly fans pissed that she didn't rat out Liz and Nik.  

 

I think Laura was fairly passive-aggressive during Genie's 98-02 stint, particularly under McTavish and then whoever wrote the Deception stuff in 99/00.

[Ambrosefolly]

To be fair to RC, KSMaxie's character has always been about as deep, intelligent, ambitious, and self-aware as a mud puddle. And that may be offensive to mud puddles.

I disagree. I think in 2008 she was very smart and ambitious and when Robyn Richards was playing her, I absolutely loved her and Zander in their brief interaction. Any progress that Maxie managed to make, Spinelli ruined. Now there is a character the show will protect at nearly all cost, not Patrick. Probably because he is a Jason ass kisser. 

[KerleyQ]

I'm still bitter that beautiful, smart, sweet Georgie had to pine over that loser, like she couldn't possibly really dream of landing a catch like Spinelli.  

[OnceSane]

I'm still bitter that beautiful, smart, sweet Georgie had to pine over that loser, like she couldn't possibly really dream of landing a catch like Spinelli.

I never really cared about Georgie and I feel/felt the same way.

[ulkis]

So, in the grand scheme of things, who had worse stories over all when their main love interest died, Patrick or Nikolas?

[jsbt]

Based on the storylines? Nikolas. In the grand scheme of things, all Patrick has done is get involved with two other women, as opposed to Nikolas who fucked a ghost, skeeved all over Elizabeth and tried to turn Brook Lynn out as a hooker. Based on the day-to-day writing and dialogue, Patrick, by far. Nikolas' post-Emily, pre-RC stories were horrible but he was never as much of a cipher as Patrick (and Nikolas, and almost all other males) became in the last three years.

Edited October 29, 2015 by jsbt

[ulkis]

No you have to choose! Okay no you don't. I agree with you. I guess I'd have to pick Nikolas overall, and even though you're right that Patrick had it much worse in the day-to-day writing, but imo that's easier to recover from than what happened to Nikolas. Which is probably why they were able to fire TC without anyone caring much.

Edited October 29, 2015 by ulkis

[jsbt]

I agree. And fortunately for Patrick in this comparison, they took the heat off him even more by having Nikolas return still obsessed with Elizabeth, his most unpopular pairing ever.

[dubbel zout]

What Nik is doing with Hayden is just a continuation of his overall grossness. I feel like whatshisname from To Catch a Predator needs to set up shop at Windermere.

[tallyrand]

I don't think NIk and Elizabeth is NIk's most unpopular pairing ever.  I would say Nik and Katherine, Nik and Sarah, Nik and Nadine, NIk and Brooklyn etc etc.  Nik has had a lot of duds.  Nik and Elizabeth might well be NIk's second most popular pairing after Nem lol.  Depending on where this thing with Hayden goes of course...

[ulkis]

I don't think NIk and Elizabeth is NIk's most unpopular pairing ever.  I would say Nik and Katherine, Nik and Sarah, Nik and Nadine, NIk and Brooklyn etc etc.  Nik has had a lot of duds.  Nik and Elizabeth might well be NIk's second most popular pairing after Nem lol.  Depending on where this thing with Hayden goes of course...

 

I think the difference between Nikolas and Elizabeth and the other pairings you named is that while no one particularly cared about those other pairings, they weren't hated like Nikolas and Elizabeth, round 1, were. Maybe Katherine and Nikolas, but even then, no one was being actively betrayed. I saw some more people liking them when Nik came back in 2013 but otherwise yeah I think Nik and Liz round 1 was a low point for both of them.

[UYI]

Were Nik & Gia any good? Yeah I know, different actor, but still.

[TeeVee329]

Were Nik & Gia any good? Yeah I know, different actor, but still.

 

I liked them (and Gia) a lot.  She was less of a willowy damsel-in-distress, which is the type of chick Nikolas needs, IMO.

 

As for Nikolas and Liz, what I never understood about that pairing when Nikolas returned in 2013 was the wistful, rose colored glasses way Liz and Nikolas looked back on it.  They were never, ever in a relationship.  They had a sleazy affair while Liz was dating/engaged to Nikolas' brother and it eventually led to Liz having a nervous breakdown and attempting suicide.  Why Liz in particular would be wistful about that time in her life, I have no idea.

Edited October 29, 2015 by TeeVee329

[jsbt]

I liked Nik and Gia a lot. At least, excluding the period where they moved a jukebox into the drawing room to try to turn Wyndemere into a "hip hangout for youths" for about three minutes in the JFP/McTavish era.

[tallyrand]

Well true they were hated, but they must have had some sort of popularity to have it reintroduced with Nik came back in 2013.  I hate them too, although <small voice> I thought they had chemistry when Nik came back. 

[TeeVee329]

Well true they were hated, but they must have had some sort of popularity to have it reintroduced with Nik came back in 2013.  I hate them too, although <small voice> I thought they had chemistry when Nik came back. 

 

I remain convinced that Ron Carlivati only went near Nikolas and Liz again because he eventually wanted to do a full-on triangle with them and Lucky.  If all three Luckys hadn't been employed during his tenure, I guarantee it would have happened.

[jsbt]

I was really into that pairing at one point. I even liked Andrea Pearson's milquetoast NuGia with Nikolas.

 

And yes, the only reason RC ever did any of this with Niz II was because he was holding out for Lucky someday. He was obsessed with yet another long-term, unattainable goal. Which is ridiculous since no Lucky ever appeared to be a part of that storyline, and yet Nik and Liz remained in limbo circling around each other and being demeaned in time-wasting storylines waiting on Lucky for the entirety of RC's tenure. And what would he have done with Lucky if he'd been there? The triangle is boring and ugly and no one liked it the first time. If you have no investment in the gross and unpopular central couple you are trying to keep on a hook for years just in the hopes of another character someday returning, what story are you even telling? That's not a long story bible or a large tapestry, that's just a screensaver.

Edited October 29, 2015 by jsbt

[ulkis]

Were Nik & Gia any good? Yeah I know, different actor, but still.

 

I think taken out of context of who Nikolas had been previously to the recast, they were good. But considering how different Nikolas acted and all the Stefan shunning, it was bad from that perspective. But if you just thought of him as some rando, they were good.

 

I do agree with TeeVee that she is the kind of woman Nikolas needs, less damsel in distress, and I think it would be interesting if they brought her back.

[WendyCR72]

 

I think taken out of context of who Nikolas had been previously to the recast, they were good. But considering how different Nikolas acted and all the Stefan shunning, it was bad from that perspective. But if you just thought of him as some rando, they were good.

 

I do agree with TeeVee that she is the kind of woman Nikolas needs, less damsel in distress, and I think it would be interesting if they brought her back.

 

If they brought Gia back, it would either have to be the recast, Andrea Pearson, or a new recast since Marissa Ramirez is on Blue Bloods these days!

[jsbt]

I don't think all of Nikolas and Gia was that OOC - early on, before JFP and McTavish, I thought a lot of it worked well. Granted, my memories are a bit misty. I think she'd fit well with the man he's become, but then so does Budig despite the wretched story.

[tallyrand]

I don't even think about the fact that RC might have wanted to do a triangle with Lucky. Bletch.  I also remember that Liz and AJ were being cute and adorable before Nik came back. Another reason to dislike RC's writing...

[TeeVee329]

I don't even think about the fact that RC might have wanted to do a triangle with Lucky. Bletch.  I also remember that Liz and AJ were being cute and adorable before Nik came back. Another reason to dislike RC's writing...

 

Liz and AJ were SO CUTE, but Ron and Frank were pimping Nikolas as her love interest before he even showed up.

[dubbel zout]

Some couples just don't work, no matter how hard everyone tries. Nik and Liz are one of those couples.

[tallyrand]

I think Nik and Liz could have worked.  I think they do have chemistry.  If after Liz and Jason broke up in 2008 and Nik was still grieving, they bonded over their lost loves etc.  They only would have worked for me if Lucky wasn't in the picture at all, and Liz wasn't flip flopping between 20 men at the same time.  The problem is that it would take a really good writer to make them work because of the Lucky baggage.  

[HeatLifer]

The Dante cheating reveal reminded me how gooood and emotional the Patrick cheating reveal was. I should watch that again. Such good acting.

[ulkis]

The Dante cheating reveal reminded me how gooood and emotional the Patrick cheating reveal was. I should watch that again. Such good acting.

 

DZ said that he wanted Dante to reveal it to Lulu and Frank said that wasn't dramatic enough. That tells us all we need to know about Frank Valentini, I think.

[HeatLifer]

DZ said that he wanted Dante to reveal it to Lulu and Frank said that wasn't dramatic enough. That tells us all we need to know about Frank Valentini, I think.

I don't know how this show continuously screws things up. I mean, look at the Jason reveal promo. No.one.is.crying. Like. Um. OK.

[cmahorror]

Patrick confesses to Robin about Lisa:

 

 

 

What a great reveal - excellent job by both Kimberly McCullough and Jason Thompson.

[HeatLifer]

That.was.so.freaking.good. Man. They are such good acting partners.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Patrick confesses to Robin about Lisa:

 

 

 

What a great reveal - excellent job by both Kimberly McCullough and Jason Thompson.

 

 

Loved these scenes, because Robin was allowed to be angry and not blame herself!

 

Patrick: "I don't deserver you-"

 

Robin: "No, you don't."

 

Robin: "Get out. I will not look at your pouting face. GET OUT!"

 

Me: You go, GIRL!

 

Too bad it only lasted for a week or so.  This is the Robin I want to see when she returns, but alas I know it will be a Robin, who will blame herself for Patrick not being able to see through her lies.

[Oracle42]

I'm officially nostalgic for the Lisa Niles storyline

[TeeVee329]

I'll refer to Serial Drama's post on those Robin/Patrick scenes, which kinda says it all:

 

http://serialdrama.typepad.com/serial_drama/2010/08/hi-infidelity.html

 

And oh Lisa, you nutty ho!  Remember when she semi-entertainingly soap crazy?  She should have been gone after the first round of her "Fatal Attraction" routine instead of the ten millionth.