GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[jsbt]

I don't remember them blaming that on A.J. What did I miss?

 

I had heard, at the time, that Guza and co. were either re-tooling that story as it happened (sometimes new HWs tweak the exiting team's stories before they go to air or their name is officially on it - Ron and Frank were doing it at GH in early 2012) or had thought it up themselves. I can't remember which.

Edited November 23, 2014 by jsbt

[cheyz]

I don't remember them blaming that on A.J. What did I miss?

 

I had heard, at the time, that Guza and co. were either re-tooling that story as it happened (sometimes new HWs tweak the exiting team's stories before they go to air or their name is officially on it - Ron and Frank were doing it at GH in early 2012) or had thought it up themselves. I can't remember which.

It was both. The accident was real, Carly had just learned how to drive and then saw Sonny/Alexis in bed. She was dropping off a birthday card or something. Zander told Sonny that she had gotten a car. She was fine but decided to stay away a few days because she had gotten into one of the cabins. While they were searching for her they found a body in the lake, and AJ faked the DNA results so that she would be declared dead (and he would then get Michael). When Carly saw the headlines about her death, she came back.

[TeeVee329]

Hmmm I only remember the Carly staying away on purpose part, that she wanted to punish Sonny and Alexis (and let's not forget, she timed it perfectly, stumbling into her own funeral).  I don't remember the AJ stuff.  Was this pre-SWSNBN?

[jsbt]

Courtney arrived at the end of 2001, she was already established.

 

I do remember Carly staying away. The A.J. detail I'd forgotten, but AFAIK he had nothing to do with her accident or choice to stay missing.

[UYI]

For some reason I thought that Megan lasted until the end of the summer, and one of the first things Guza and Pratt did was kill Kristina off (which was in August, right before Alexis put the Unholy Trinity on blast, along with Roy, at her funeral) and bring back Brenda? 

[jsbt]

Megan was long gone by then, AFAIK. Maybe in name only. Wikipedia says til June but I remember the show already being dramatically different by then. I think maybe her name was just still in the credits for a while - I think Guza and co. had taken over by late April at least, and were already ghostwriting, which is something that repeated late in the year when Brian Frons rehired Michael Malone and Josh Griffith at OLTL and they started rewriting material from Gary Tomlin's people without their names on it (til February of '03). I may be being too generous but I just remember the show beginning to feel dramatically different once the Carly accident story got going - almost immediately about Sexis did it.

 

They did kill Kristina and bring back Brenda, but as you say that was August.

Edited November 23, 2014 by jsbt

[TeeVee329]

I think I've mentioned before that I had no previous experience with and very little knowledge of Brenda when she returned in 2002.  And I remember these promos airing (there was a Jax/Skye version too, but that's not online) and I was like, "Who is this bitch?".  LOL.

 

Edited November 23, 2014 by TeeVee329

[ulkis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW_pE7rkfrw&index=22&list=PLDC597DB1E1CDDBFA

 

Really good Sonny/Carly scene where Sonny asks Bobbie if Carly is pregnant with his baby after hate sex.

[UYI]

Laura and Tracy in 2008, where we see Tracy knows full well where she is in Luke's heart compared to Laura (and why Tony Geary is full of shit to act any differently):

 

[jsbt]

Laura and Tracy in 2008, where we see Tracy knows full well where she is in Luke's heart compared to Laura (and why Tony Geary is full of shit to act any differently):

 

 

Still one of my favorite scenes in years. It's full of the Guza/Geary orthodoxy about Luke and all that revisionist bullshit about him and Laura vs. Tracy, but Laura dismantles it with just a few lines. I dunno who let that through but it was wonderfully done - along with JE's reaction.

[TeeVee329]

I'd been watching GH since 1980/81, and that one storyline was enough to make me completely stop watching the show for a few years. Someone as strong and successful as Alexis being reduced to begging for HER child made me ill and ragey.

 

Far be it for me to defend the Dobson storyline because...no...but considering Alexis faked a mental disorder to get away with murder and was, IIRC, blowing off therapy with Zander's dad, is it that surprising that custody wouldn't automatically go to her?

[WendyCR72]

Far be it for me to defend the Dobson storyline because...no...but considering Alexis faked a mental disorder to get away with murder

 

Which was a documented bullshit retcon since, when Luis landed on the car, Alexis was ON THE GROUND and screamed as the flying body hit said car. Considering there was like a billion floors up, Alexis must have the power to fly.

 

Rumor had it it was going to be Brenda, but VM or someone else put the kibosh, so then came the bullshit. And, even if Alexis WAS retconned, the flashback of it had Luis ready to throw Alexis over a railing, and the dumbass lunged INTO the knife as he went to attack her.

 

So in terms of all that? Yeah, I still DO think what happened to Alexis WAS bullshit. ESPECIALLY when Ned and "cousin" Skye were getting it on and playing house with the kid...which Ned knew was not his but blackmailed Alexis into getting the kid or he would disclose paternity to Sonny.

[jsbt]

I thought it made sense for Alexis to be the one, but they obviously fucked up the continuity on it. I also thought all the mental illness shenanigans they had her playing with were stupid.

 

And then Skye's dumb ass, who has still only been with the Quartermaines for two minutes, immediately decides she can fuck Ned now. Not that they didn't look okay together, but really?

 

We also never found out who killed - I think it was that lady from The West Wing, as a witness or something.

[TeeVee329]

So in terms of all that? Yeah, I still DO think what happened to Alexis WAS bullshit. ESPECIALLY when Ned and "cousin" Skye were getting it on and playing house with the kid...which Ned knew was not his but blackmailed Alexis into getting the kid or he would disclose paternity to Sonny.

 

Ew, Skye and Ned hooking up grooooooooosssssssed me out.

 

But in Ned's slight defense, I feel like I remember that Alexis was spouting the typical Guza party line about the Quartermaines being toxic and didn't want Ned to have any relationship with Kristina, despite being her legal father.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

So in terms of all that? Yeah, I still DO think what happened to Alexis WAS bullshit. ESPECIALLY when Ned and "cousin" Skye were getting it on and playing house with the kid...which Ned knew was not his but blackmailed Alexis into getting the kid or he would disclose paternity to Sonny.

 

Wait.....Ned was thought of as Kristina's father at one point?

[jsbt]

Ned was Alexis's cover for Kristina's paternity for some years, IIRC. It was a good story to me, at first.

[TeeVee329]

Yes, pretty soon after she found out she was pregnant, Alexis asked Ned to pose as the baby's father, which was pretty awkward since he was engaged to her sister Kristina at the time.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Wow. Awkward.

[UYI]

Speaking of the Luis stuff, here's Skye on the witness stand. She was drunk over losing Jax. :(

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53S7Vh9LvSw

[jsbt]

Ned always came off as too old for Kristina I for me. I thought that was so gross and weird, I have no idea why Jill and Megan thought it was a good idea, and that's not even getting to the Alexis issue. I really liked Jaime Ray Newman and Kristina - I thought she made an impossible retcon work.

Edited November 24, 2014 by jsbt

[TeeVee329]

I remember feeling like it happened super fast, Ned and Kristina falling in love and getting engaged.  And yeah, the Alexis factor made the whole thing pretty gross.  You find your long-lost sister and start dating her ex?  Nooooooo. 

 

But I did like Jamie Ray Newman.  The below scene, where she goes to visit a jailed Helena and claims the Cassadine name, was always one of my favorites:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PentE8Noqo

Edited November 24, 2014 by TeeVee329

[jsbt]

I thought they should have paired her with a Lucky - a better Lucky (Jacob Young was still in the role, and absolutely terrible), or Jonathan Jackson. That would have been a dynamite potential pairing. But oh well.

[dubbel zout]

I never liked Jaime Ray Newman, and I still don't. She's one of those people for me.

[majormama]

During a brief attempt to re-join this show a few years back, I remember a re-write showing it wasn't actually AJ's accident that caused Jason's personality change but Alan's failed attempt to mercy-kill his comatose son. I promptly turned the show back off, because why the heck were they messing with that story? But now I'm wondering, why the heck *did* they mess with that story? What purpose did it serve in the overall plot to make Alan a mercy killer?

[GHScorpiosRule]

During a brief attempt to re-join this show a few years back, I remember a re-write showing it wasn't actually AJ's accident that caused Jason's personality change but Alan's failed attempt to mercy-kill his comatose son. I promptly turned the show back off, because why the heck were they messing with that story? But now I'm wondering, why the heck *did* they mess with that story? What purpose did it serve in the overall plot to make Alan a mercy killer?

 

Are you sure you're not thinking about the re-write of Michael killing AJ?  Initially, red-headed Michael killed AJ, and then they changed it to some doctor/surgeon who killed AJ (when Billy Warlock was playing him). I don't recall any retcon in trying to make Alan responsible.

[ulkis]

I never liked Jaime Ray Newman, and I still don't. She's one of those people for me.

 

She looked a little but like Natalia Livingston to me in one of the clips, so that's enough to alarm me :)

[KerleyQ]

During a brief attempt to re-join this show a few years back, I remember a re-write showing it wasn't actually AJ's accident that caused Jason's personality change but Alan's failed attempt to mercy-kill his comatose son. I promptly turned the show back off, because why the heck were they messing with that story? But now I'm wondering, why the heck *did* they mess with that story? What purpose did it serve in the overall plot to make Alan a mercy killer?

 

Wasn't it actually AJ they tried to implicate in that plot - the doctor who ended up being retconned as killing BW's AJ was one of the doctors who treated Jason after his accident.  I thought there was some bizarre "twist" where he and AJ had conspired to kill Jason.  I want to say that AJ was concerned that Jason would be too permanently brain damaged, and the doctor, for whatever reason, played those fears up.  I think that's why he killed AJ - because AJ recognized him and could blab about that.  Of course, it's been a while, and that story line was epic levels of stupid, so I may be forgetting some details. 

[majormama]

No, it was flashbacks to when Jason was in his coma following AJ's drunk driving accident. I'm pretty sure it was Alan who was distraught thinking Jason wouldn't wake up, so he injected him with some drug to end his suffering, only it didn't work to kill him and instead erased his memories and changed his personality. It was all shown in flashback. I didn't watch long, so I may well be remembering wrong.

Edited November 24, 2014 by majormama

[ulkis]

Watching old school Sonny and Carly clips last night I was almost into them, which was very alarming. I was very glad when Sonny started browbeating and harassing her to marry him and telling her all the ways she would never be able to do better in order to get her to marry him. They were pretty compelling but I definitely wouldn't/couldn't root for them to be together. And it bugged me how Sonny was always saying she was as bad as he was, and there was no hope for them. Carly did some bad stuff at that point but she wasn't a career criminal like Sonny, who probably had a few murders under his belt at that point. Carly kinda wanted to be a better person, but Sonny kept telling her there was no hope. ick.

[Harmony233]

I never could get into sonny and carly which is weird because I actually enjoyed bad characters together lol.I loved both Heather and scotty and lucy and scotty and all there schemes then again they was actually portrayed as actual town pariahs.Sonny and carly not so much.

[UYI]

Watching old school Sonny and Carly clips last night I was almost into them, which was very alarming. I was very glad when Sonny started browbeating and harassing her to marry him and telling her all the ways she would never be able to do better in order to get her to marry him. They were pretty compelling but I definitely wouldn't/couldn't root for them to be together. And it bugged me how Sonny was always saying she was as bad as he was, and there was no hope for them. Carly did some bad stuff at that point but she wasn't a career criminal like Sonny, who probably had a few murders under his belt at that point. Carly kinda wanted to be a better person, but Sonny kept telling her there was no hope. ick.

 

This reminded me of this clip, which takes place after Carly told Sam about Brenda:

 

Edited November 24, 2014 by UYI

[Harmony233]

I had actually came across when Robert gathered all the suspects for nancy Eckarts murder and Faision had someone impersonating him by wearing a faision mask.RC wasn't even the first one to do that lol.

[jsbt]

IIRC, they literally inserted an old clip of A.J. from the '90s or early 2000s into that horrible 2005 rewrite story where they tried to claim A.J. had hired Dr. Thomas in '95 to euthanize Jason. They showed this made-up flashback with Thomas talking on the phone, telling someone he'll do it or whatever, and then inserted a brief shot of Billy Warlock on the phone. It was ridiculous and I will never believe it.

[KerleyQ]

While I didn't want AJ dead (then or now), I at least semi-respected that they had the balls to acknowledge how fucked up MyKill was by having him be the one who killed him.  That they immediately backtracked and wrote that hot mess instead was absurd.  

[majormama]

So it was basically re-written both to make AJ look even more terrible and to facilitate his "death"? Got it. But I still seem to have a memory of Alan in flashback crying and saying he's sorry as he injects something into someone's (Jason's, I thought) IV.

[KerleyQ]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_General_Hospital_characters_(2000s)#Asher_Thomas

 

That's what I found on the doctor who killed AJ.  According to that, it seems like Alan's involvement in the story came after AJ's "death" when Asher tied him up and tried to force Monica to help him escape from town. 

[dubbel zout]

While I didn't want AJ dead (then or now), I at least semi-respected that they had the balls to acknowledge how fucked up MyKill was by having him be the one who killed him.  That they immediately backtracked and wrote that hot mess instead was absurd.

Seriously. Supposedly the public "outcry" over a kid killing someone was too great. Right. Because that's where this fakakta show draws the line.

[SlovakPrincess]

That Sonny and Carly clip - geez, I could've liked Carly if she had stayed in hating-Sonny mode. That's a Carly I could've learned to like. Didn't last though, apparently.

Also, that scene is practically Shakespeare compared to most of the writing now.

Also, I'm typing this on my phone, and autocorrect tried to turn my misspelling of Sonny into "asinine." Hee!

Is it wrong that that scene of Skye making a complete ass of herself in court makes me laugh and laugh and laugh?

Edited November 25, 2014 by SlovakPrincess

[jsbt]

Carly and Alcazar were great together, so they had to be destroyed. Those scenes with them in late 2003(?) were some of the hottest shit on GH in years. And I was a major Sonny and Carly fan early on, especially when Sarah was in the role.

[dubbel zout]

TB and TK had amazing chemistry. But they were unfortunate to have it smack in the middle of the Sonny and Jason Will Never Ever Lose era. Just look at how Lorenzo was eventually killed off—by the Foley guy. We laugh about it, but it was a pretty demeaning death for a popular character.

[jsbt]

They had been demeaning him long before that, in fairness. Starting with turning him into Ray Charles. All that was deliberate shit to marginalize and/or emasculate his character, IMO, followed by his magic son, the C-plot with NuLois, finally tossing Skye at him because they didn't give a fuck about either of them, etc. Their only intent with him after that brief interval in 2003-early 04 was to get Alcazar out of the main arena, AFAIC.

 

I do expect Ron to bring him back someday. I'd be fine with it.

Edited November 25, 2014 by jsbt

[dubbel zout]

In his own way, Guza was as petty as Ron is when it comes to stuff like that. It's not Ted King's fault he's a handsome, charismatic guy. But Lorenzo's popularity was obviously a threat to Sonny's place on the show, so something had to be done.

 

I'd love for TK to return, but given how badly botched Tomas was on OLTL, I'm also kind of torn.

[jsbt]

Oh, I'm sure he'd be waist-deep in some goofy Legion of Villains shit. But so is everyone else.

[ulkis]

Someone posted some 1990 Larry Ashton

 

 

Old Ned was really hot.

[jsbt]

Kurt McKinney. He didn't end up hot. I prefer Wally Kurth now.

[sometimesfan]

In his own way, Guza was as petty as Ron is when it comes to stuff like that. It's not Ted King's fault he's a handsome, charismatic guy. But Lorenzo's popularity was obviously a threat to Sonny's place on the show, so something had to be done.

 

I'd love for TK to return, but given how badly botched Tomas was on OLTL, I'm also kind of torn.

 

I don't think at this point Lorenzo can return to GH, and that is all on Ron. By making Lorenzo and Tomas the same character on GH, it now falls under the PP litigation over OLTL, or that's what I thought.

[LeftPhalange]

Would Helena ever really kill Luke?

[Harmony233]

I'm actually watching the Alan/Lucy/Scotty/Tracy quad from 1990 and it has lots of larry in it.

[Cattitude]

Can one of you fonts of GH lore explain why certain people call Alexis Natasha?

[WhoaWhoKnew]

Can one of you fonts of GH lore explain why certain people call Alexis Natasha?

It's her birth name. Helena's husband, Mikkos, is Alexis' father.

Edited November 26, 2014 by WhoaWhoKnew