These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation About SPN Spoilers

[ILoveReading]

15 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Okay, so I can't believe I'm going to ask this question. I feel like a conspiracy theorist. But is everything okay with Jared/Jensen? They have split them up so much this season that I'm starting to wonder. They could still have multiple storylines (aka filming less for J2) but keep the brothers together. But they keep separating them. 

And they haven't really hung out together except for obligations. 

I think everything is fine.  I think its just trying to compensate for them working part time.   If they're only filming 20 minutes per ep (for example) it would be 50% Winchesters and 50% other characters.

The writers arent' strong enough to deal with multiple storylines and interconnect them. 

Splitting the brothers up is a way to have at least one Winchester on screen for most of the episode, rather than none for half.

As for not hanging out, having separate filming schedules would explain that. 

Plus, Jared and Jensen aren't really ones to live their lives on social media and just because we don't' see it, doesn't mean they aren't hanging out. 

Edited February 22, 2019 by ILoveReading

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

 I'm going to guess no.  Dabb said that the door gives way sooner rather than later.  He seems opposed to letting suspense build around the Michael arc.  He's spoiled it every time so far.

I'm guessing Michael escapes at the end of 14.  15 probably has Dean moping around the bunker so Jack suggests a road trip.

I just hope we're spared a scene of Dean asking Sam if its okay.

Ugh.

I hope it's not THAT! soon!!

But, if so, what about Michael's threat to leave nothing behind but "blood and bones" if he's forced out of Dean?

Oh that's right, Dabbernatural, of course. 

I swear if we don't get a lot more Michael!Dean out of this season in the second half, I am going to be Howling!Mad.😤😡😠

[Myrelle]

2 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

This is the episode that is extremely Jensen-lite so expect minimal Dean. 

Ugh! again!! and Boo! Hiss!!😖😠

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Ugh! again!! and Boo! Hiss!!😖😠

Well, Jared missed a lot filming for episode 9 and I don`t think it really showed. If I hadn`t known he wasn`t on set a lot, I would have not been able to tell from the episode.

Now I do expect Jensen to be lighter on episode 15 because apparently he only filmed 2 days? That would roughly shake out too how much John was in Lebanon.  

Eh, I consider ep 15 a write-off episode now which is too bad because the Pleasantville-town concept sounds like it could be a neat case. I do also find Jack tolerable pretty much when with Dean but a short busy-body C-plot doesn`t excite me. 

Apparently Jared is missing chunks of filming for episode 17 now so apparently they alternate with lighter schedules. Or the show gave him a bit off leeway around the recent marathon.

Episode 16 deals with the stupid teenagers. Was anyone clamoring for them to come back? I do think it`s sneakily testing the waters for at least potential for a spin-off but even the CW seems more like "eh, can`t make a viable spin-off from that show". If they didn`t go with Wayward, they will not go with anything IMO.

[ILoveReading]

I'm guessing whatever guest star is playing Dean's "old friend" is the reason this ep was filmed out of order.

I'm guessing NuCharlie.  They usually have to film out of order to accommodate Felicia's schedule.

[Aeryn13]

31 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I'm guessing whatever guest star is playing Dean's "old friend" is the reason this ep was filmed out of order.

I'm guessing NuCharlie.  They usually have to film out of order to accommodate Felicia's schedule.

Yeah, that`s right, I forgot the reason they reversed shooting order was accomodating someone`s schedule. Felicia seems like a good bet. Of course NuCharlie isn`t a friend in any way, shape or form, she is a stranger and even she made that clear in her last appearance but it`s not like press release or even the show this time would reflect that. 

Would be a hella random visit. She had brief interaction with Dean over in AU-world and doesn`t know Jack at all. And whose arc would that serve?

If it`s about Jack, Donatello would make some sense with the soullessness and all. Though, of course, shouldn`t Jack be dying again if he used up his soul? Considering his soul was the thing to keep him going until his grace naturally replenished? I know, I know, Dabbernatural. 

[catrox14]

Hmm, could an AU Benny make an appearance? I don't think it would be AU Charlie other than an object lesson for Dean or something. What other friends does Dean have?

Oh wait, is "old" literal here? Maybe Mildred? That would be great as long as they don't kill her off. I could see Dee Wallace needing see filming accommodation.

[catrox14]

ETA: Although Mildred is supposed to be nearby. Maybe she moved out of that retirement community, to somewhere arther away, hence the use of "trip". Could the friend be Jack's stalker from Optimism? I

[Myrelle]

53 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Hmm, could an AU Benny make an appearance? I don't think it would be AU Charlie other than an object lesson for Dean or something. What other friends does Dean have?

Oh wait, is "old" literal here? Maybe Mildred? That would be great as long as they don't kill her off. I could see Dee Wallace needing see filming accommodation.

It's probably just Jody.

[NougatJack]

AU Bobby maybe?

[ILoveReading]

I don't really see the need for secrecy with AU Bobby, AU Charlie, or Jody or any reason why the summary would just say Dean goes to visit (insert name here).

I really hope its not Nick, Lucifer

[ILoveReading]

http://www.ksitetv.com/supernatural/supernatural-photos-rowena-returns-in-ouroboros/189137/nggallery/image/sn1414a_0049b/

In the promo there is a shot of Dean getting his head banged against the wall.   So maybe that is when Michael gets out.  As for Michael leaving him damaged, Jack probably heals him. 

[Aeryn13]

Neither Nick nor Lucifer would qualify as "old friend". 

And no matter which friend it was, there would be no need for secrecy with anyone. I think the press release just tries to play it cute and have whatever guest actor as a surprise. Just imagine it will be a mundane letdown and you`d probably be right. 

Quote

http://www.ksitetv.com/supernatural/supernatural-photos-rowena-returns-in-ouroboros/189137/nggallery/image/sn1414a_0049b/

In the promo there is a shot of Dean getting his head banged against the wall.   So maybe that is when Michael gets out.  As for Michael leaving him damaged, Jack probably heals him. 

So okay, the pictures. 

Everyone is attacking snake dude. He bangs Dean`s head into a wall. Dean is for some weird reason very badly hurt by this? Jack probably uses his powers there in the fight. 

They`re probably making up some cockamamie thing like Michael does something so Dean is hurt easier or can`t fight anymore so he is not going on the hunt in the episode after that.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Aeryn13

[ILoveReading]

I wonder if the old friend might be Ketch. 

I know its stretching the definition of friend but there really aren't that many left.

Or they're inventing an entirely new character that Dean supposedly knew forever, even though we (the audience) never heard of him.

[juppschmitz]

This is what Ksitetv has on 14.16 (?)

Gee, I wonder who this "new group of friends" is...

[ILoveReading]

This week on As the Supernatural World Turns.  Jack's play date.    The only thing that will make it even more of a soap is if Mary finds out she's pregnant.

Let me guess, Sam will be the one to come up with an out of the box solution to stopping the monster.

https://www.theadvocate.com/new_orleans/entertainment_life/mardi_gras/article_0302cdca-37c7-11e9-b6b9-ff1e2facc30d.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share

This article basically confirms that they had to write Jensen out of the current ep.  Although since its a Beren's ep, I don't really mind that much, as long Dean is written off in a good way.

Edited March 1, 2019 by ILoveReading

[Supafanstan]

14 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

This week on As the Supernatural World Turns.  Jack's play date.    The only thing that will make it even more of a soap is if Mary finds out she's pregnant.

Let me guess, Sam will be the one to come up with an out of the box solution to stopping the monster.

https://www.theadvocate.com/new_orleans/entertainment_life/mardi_gras/article_0302cdca-37c7-11e9-b6b9-ff1e2facc30d.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share

This article basically confirms that they had to write Jensen out of the current ep.  Although since its a Beren's ep, I don't really mind that much, as long Dean is written off in a good way.

Moved to media thread.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

This article basically confirms that they had to write Jensen out of the current ep.  Although since its a Beren's ep, I don't really mind that much, as long Dean is written off in a good way.

Somehow I don`t think he means written out completely but probably something like Jared had for In the Beginning, one quick scene to nominally be in the episode. 

But agreed, better Dean be out of a Berens than in. Yes, hopefully the how doesn`t suck. 

Quote

This week on As the Supernatural World Turns.  Jack's play date.    The only thing that will make it even more of a soap is if Mary finds out she's pregnant.

Let me guess, Sam will be the one to come up with an out of the box solution to stopping the monster.

So Jack plays friendsies with the nitwit teens from Lebanon? Whatever. 

Probably on the Sam solving the case front. It`s a Perez ep so I wouldn`t expect great things for Dean to do. 

edit:  Jensen arrived yesterday in New Orleans and the family stays for a few days after the parade, yes? If they are filming episode 18 up to including Monday and start filming episode 19 on Tuesday, did he not already film a bit for 18? And I doubt they will write him out of the entirety of 19. He doesn`t need two weeks off. 

Maybe Jensen`s wording was a bit misleading but I think with the schedule he might be in both 18 and 19 but probably lighter in both eps. 

Edited March 1, 2019 by Aeryn13

[catrox14]

Sounds like some spin doctor speak. Jensen has spun things before for Berens (s12.22). Seems more likely they didn't have Dean much in the ep already so he had time for this.
 

I mean for some reason  they couldn't write Dean out for him to do Marvel films but they could fir this?  Unless my headcanon is accurate that they are intending to kill off Dean because Jensen is going to do something else and this is the first step in that direction...I'm just sayin'...😎

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

Sounds like some spin doctor speak. Jensen has spun things before for Berens (s12.22). Seems more likely they didn't have Dean much in the ep already so he had time for this.
 

I mean for some reason  they couldn't write Dean out for him to do Marvel films but they could fir this?  Unless my headcanon is accurate that they are intending to kill off Dean because Jensen is going to do something else and this is the first step in that direction...I'm just sayin'...😎

It shows how little Dean is actually connected to the storyline that they could write him out so easily this close to the end of the season.

I'll be forever bitter about Deadpool. 

[ahrtee]

“I had to be written out of part of an episode so I could come,” said Ackles. “It is near the end of the season, so not a lot left. But I still have to go back to work.” 

Note the "part of" bit.  I'm going to assume that means they had to cut a number of scenes he would have been in, not his entire part.   

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Sounds like some spin doctor speak. Jensen has spun things before for Berens (s12.22). Seems more likely they didn't have Dean much in the ep already so he had time for this.

Thing is, since filming for the Berens-ep is almost done, it seems almost like Jensen would be more in that episode than in the next one, which is the Bucklemming penned-ep 19. 

Episode 18 has the rumored title "Absence". Which, you could fit in "absence" of a character. 

Ep 19 on the other hand is "Jack in the Box", making me think they are that lame and literal. Unless somehow Dean goes into the box and that`s how he is not in a lot of the episode and then at the end he gets out like a jack-in-the-box.    

[BlueDiamond]

18 hours ago, ahrtee said:

“I had to be written out of part of an episode so I could come,” said Ackles. “It is near the end of the season, so not a lot left. But I still have to go back to work.” 

Note the "part of" bit.  I'm going to assume that means they had to cut a number of scenes he would have been in, not his entire part.   

Yes, Jensen filmed for at least a day or two for episode 18 - which they currently film. That J2 selfie in the Impala was taken during filming that ep for example. So seems like once they found out, that Jensen will be Bacchus, they worked on changing some of the scripts to give him fewer scenes and allowing time off. 

[BlueDiamond]

18 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Thing is, since filming for the Berens-ep is almost done, it seems almost like Jensen would be more in that episode than in the next one, which is the Bucklemming penned-ep 19. 

Episode 18 has the rumored title "Absence". Which, you could fit in "absence" of a character. 

Ep 19 on the other hand is "Jack in the Box", making me think they are that lame and literal. Unless somehow Dean goes into the box and that`s how he is not in a lot of the episode and then at the end he gets out like a jack-in-the-box.    

Depending on how long Jensen is planning to stay after the parade on Sunday - I doubt it will be more than a couple of days, as actual Mardi Gras and the end of the carnival is on the 5th. So he will miss a couple of days of ep 19 probably, which is really not more than usual J2 are missing of each episode anyway. All that assuming he goes straight up to Vancouver and won't have any additional time off during the filming of this ep. 

[ILoveReading]

If I did the math right, episode 19 begins filming Tuesday.  So even if Jensen takes a couple of days he won't miss that much of episode 19.

He probably filmed 2-3 days of episode 18.   Because he was also a video Misha posted with this kids.

[SueB]

I do worry about the weather.  Sunday is the big day and it’s thetening to storm.  If they have to push to Tuesday (which is literally the LAST OPTION as it’s Fat Tuesday), that would probably hit another film day.  I wonder if he borrowed jared’s plane rather than risk the flight.  

[BlueDiamond]

4 hours ago, SueB said:

I do worry about the weather.  Sunday is the big day and it’s thetening to storm.  If they have to push to Tuesday (which is literally the LAST OPTION as it’s Fat Tuesday), that would probably hit another film day.  I wonder if he borrowed jared’s plane rather than risk the flight.  

Not necessarily, if Jensen was actually planning to stay until Tuesday anyway and being in New Orleans for Mardi Gras itself - which he might, based on that interview. 
But I do hope that the weather won't ruin the parade and it will happen tomorrow. 

[gonzosgirrl]

6 hours ago, BlueDiamond said:

Not necessarily, if Jensen was actually planning to stay until Tuesday anyway and being in New Orleans for Mardi Gras itself - which he might, based on that interview. 
But I do hope that the weather won't ruin the parade and it will happen tomorrow. 

In the interview posted in the other thread where he is practicing throwing the beats, the interviewer says the parade happens rain or shine. I don't know if he was just teasing Jensen but that's what he said.

[ILoveReading]

Sneak Peek.  I knew the end of Prophet was and Loss was going to go this way.  Just like I said, Dean's back to blaming himself, and not being allowed to verbally voice the words that guilt tripped him into not going through with his plan. 

No Cas its not on "us" (as in Dean ).  Its on you and Sam. Period.  Dean had a plan and was willing to go through with it until you and Sam both called him a weak quitter and punched him to make him behave.

Seriously, shut up Cas.  How can you help Dean, its not like you can reinforce the door.

[catrox14]

I had a little different take on that.i think Jensen played it that Dean is saying what he thinks he has to say. There was a moment wherein I thought for sure, Dean was going to tell him to just stop. But he backed down. I can't quite explain but I got the vibe that Dean was ready to tell Cas it was not his fault (meaning Dean's) but stopped short.. Hmmm

[ILoveReading]

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

But he backed down

I agree.  The start of the  clip when Dean said "that's what I'm supposed to say" I thought for a second Dean might actually be allowed verbalize what actually happened.  I was getting ready to order Yockey a fruit basket. 

Then SPN took hold again. and once again Dean backs down like is usually made to back down in these situations.  Because to let him speak the words shows that the end of prophet and loss actually sucked and wasn't this beautiful moment the show tried to portray it as.

[7kstar]

22 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I had a little different take on that.i think Jensen played it that Dean is saying what he thinks he has to say. There was a moment wherein I thought for sure, Dean was going to tell him to just stop. But he backed down. I can't quite explain but I got the vibe that Dean was ready to tell Cas it was not his fault (meaning Dean's) but stopped short.. Hmmm

His pause, looking away speaks volumes.  I know the drill but I'm not committed to feeling the guilt.  I had a solution but was outvoted...so just how will Cas and Sam help?  Not sleeping not good, but I didn't see the expression match his words.  It was as if, I'm going through the motions you expect but I can't say I blame me other than I should have just done it without you too.  Now it may be too late.

I'm sure there will be some fist pounding during the ep.  lol

[gonzosgirrl]

24 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I had a little different take on that.i think Jensen played it that Dean is saying what he thinks he has to say. There was a moment wherein I thought for sure, Dean was going to tell him to just stop. But he backed down. I can't quite explain but I got the vibe that Dean was ready to tell Cas it was not his fault (meaning Dean's) but stopped short.. Hmmm

I'm kind of here, too. I think he was saying 'It's on me," but what he's really saying, with his body language, is, "It's on me, because you and Sam put it on me when you made me stay here." Even though he goes on to say he appreciates Cas saying they are in it together, they all know it's not true - it's on Dean. At least until they have Dean lose the battle and somebody else swoops in to save the day.

ETA: Ha, we posted at the same time @7kstar  Brilliant minds. :)

[ILoveReading]

10 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

t least until they have Dean lose the battle and somebody else swoops in to save the day.

This is why none of the subtext matters.  Its step one in handing the story line off to someone else. In the end all I see is once again a Dean storyline fizzling out without a cathartic ending where he gets to take on Michael and win.

We know Deans' barely in next week's episode, so I'm guessing that Michael is going to come very close to getting out and Dean gets benched by supreme leader Chief Sue.  Or Michael does get loose with a vague promise of "I'm coming back for you" 

Edited March 4, 2019 by ILoveReading

[ILoveReading]

9 minutes ago, 7kstar said:

His pause, looking away speaks volumes.  I know the drill but I'm not committed to feeling the guilt.  I had a solution but was outvoted...so just how will Cas and Sam help?  Not sleeping not good, but I didn't see the expression match his words.  It was as if, I'm going through the motions you expect but I can't say I blame me other than I should have just done it without you too.  Now it may be too late.

Then the show needs to stop trying to sell character growth for Dean.  True character growth wouldn't be Dean playing his part it would him standing his ground and actually pointing out he was outvoted about taking out Michael.

[7kstar]

17 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Then the show needs to stop trying to sell character growth for Dean.  True character growth wouldn't be Dean playing his part it would him standing his ground and actually pointing out he was outvoted about taking out Michael.

But we can't have that.  Because that's not on the written page.  Now maybe they will surprise us, but it's been rare and as far as Dean handing off his story to someone else it's the tried and true formula, so why would they move away from what works.  If they did the fans might stop watching.

Oh, I get it...but I'm afraid they are scared of the risks and most likely never planned for Dean to do more than he has.  Hence the leak that Michael wasn't the big bad that they course corrected.  Has Michael really done anything other than talk and kill some monsters?  Abbadon may have done more than Michael but she wasn't the real villain either...

So I look for the show since the tell well it's become boring.  IMO.

[AwesomO4000]

3 hours ago, 7kstar said:

Now maybe they will surprise us, but it's been rare and as far as Dean handing off his story to someone else it's the tried and true formula,

I'll take this to the "Bitch vs Jerk" thread.

[Myrelle]

6 hours ago, 7kstar said:

But we can't have that.  Because that's not on the written page.  Now maybe they will surprise us, but it's been rare and as far as Dean handing off his story to someone else it's the tried and true formula, so why would they move away from what works.  If they did the fans might stop watching.

Oh, I get it...but I'm afraid they are scared of the risks and most likely never planned for Dean to do more than he has.  Hence the leak that Michael wasn't the big bad that they course corrected.  Has Michael really done anything other than talk and kill some monsters?  Abbadon may have done more than Michael but she wasn't the real villain either...

So I look for the show since the tell well it's become boring.  IMO.

This sounds so depressing and after a week of Just Jensen it's going to now be twice as hard for me to get back into Dabbernatural especially with all the spec of a number of Dean-lite episodes coming up. *sigh*

But FWIW,  I think that Dean in the sneak peek is just being his usual pragmatic self in that he knows(and now likely wishes) that he could have been able to go into the box on his own, but because he gave in to Sam and Cas' pressure he still won't blame them; he will more blame himself-and in that IA there's no growth associated with that unless he does say something to them about that. I highly doubt that he will blame shift though-that is not his way at all-but he could remind them that he is the only one who can hold Michael in, so Cas' offer of help is pointless, tbh, and Dean knew that sad fact even when he agreed to wait. I highly doubt that we will get even that,  though.

I DO hope that we might get to see inside Dean's head again in this one when he gets hurt, though. 

That would be very interesting to me.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Myrelle
It's harder to type on my phone...

[Bergamot]

To be honest, I got different feeling from the sneak peek than some did. I didn't get the impression that there was anything in there about blame or guilt or whose fault anything is.  I guess the assumption is being made that when Dean says, "It's on me", he is saying "It's my fault", but I disagree, I think he is saying "It's up to me" -- the responsibility is on his shoulders. Which is why Cas responds, "No, we're here to help you."

I actually don't think that what they are talking about here is Dean's decision to wait on going into the box, because I think Dean saw that only as a temporary stay that didn't change anything about what will ultimately have to happen. And personally I am very glad that he didn't say anything about that -- anything like "You made me do this!" -- because that would not be character growth as far as I'm concerned. Because it was his decision, and as he told Sam before, he could carry out his plan on his own if he had to, and in fact that's just what he was originally going to do. So let other characters say "You made me do this" -- that's not Dean.

The other thing I like is that Dean is not pretending that everything is fine. I like that he is being open about the horrible strain that he is under. I don't think that Dean is trying to make Cas feel guilty, but I do think that Sam and Cas often take Dean's strength for granted, and maybe are just assuming he can do this indefinitely.  And I think that it is his intention here to remind Sam and Cas that, as Cas says, the situation is not sustainable.

[Myrelle]

6 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

To be honest, I got different feeling from the sneak peek than some did. I didn't get the impression that there was anything in there about blame or guilt or whose fault anything is.  I guess the assumption is being made that when Dean says, "It's on me", he is saying "It's my fault", but I disagree, I think he is saying "It's up to me" -- the responsibility is on his shoulders. Which is why Cas responds, "No, we're here to help you."

I actually don't think that what they are talking about here is Dean's decision to wait on going into the box, because I think Dean saw that only as a temporary stay that didn't change anything about what will ultimately have to happen. And personally I am very glad that he didn't say anything about that -- anything like "You made me do this!" -- because that would not be character growth as far as I'm concerned. Because it was his decision, and as he told Sam before, he could carry out his plan on his own if he had to, and in fact that's just what he was originally going to do. So let other characters say "You made me do this" -- that's not Dean.

The other thing I like is that Dean is not pretending that everything is fine. I like that he is being open about the horrible strain that he is under. I don't think that Dean is trying to make Cas feel guilty, but I do think that Sam and Cas often take Dean's strength for granted, and maybe are just assuming he can do this indefinitely.  And I think that it is his intention here to remind Sam and Cas that, as Cas says, the situation is not sustainable.

This is what I saw also-especially the last paragraph.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Myrelle
Change sentences to paragraph

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, Bergamot said:

And personally I am very glad that he didn't say anything about that -- anything like "You made me do this!" -- because that would not be character growth as far as I'm concerned. Because it was his decision, and as he told Sam before, he could carry out his plan on his own if he had to, and in fact that's just what he was originally going to do. So let other characters say "You made me do this" -- that's not Dean. 

While I agree that Dean thinks it his responsibility, I don't think it's not character growth for Dean to say to Cas and/or Sam something like  'I didn't do it because you both begged me to not do it because you both thought you could find another way. I had my way mapped out and shifted course because you askedw to not do it. Cas, you said it was suicidal and stupid, when it wasn't either of those things. I could have already been in that box. It would suck but the world would be safe. So when you ask me how I am.. well, the headache never stops and it's worse and worse. So yeah that is how I am right now. And I would be lying if I said I was okay'

That wouldn't be petulant nor blame shifting but it would be Dean not holding back his opinion about all of it. And if it came out a little bit angry, so what?

Dean is still suffering and the longer Michael is there fighting to get out, the more likely it is at some point Dean won't be able to take it anymore. Hell, Dean might even have a mental breakdown trying to deal with it. Along with that torment, Dean has to worry about Michael getting out.

At least with Dean going into the box,  he made the proactive choice to protect the world from Michael.

One thing I want to see is Cas and Sam telling Dean how much they appreciated him doing what he did to save not only Sam and Jack, bit the world. And they understand why he thinks the box is the answer.

[rue721]

What I don't get is, why not put Dean in the box and MEANWHILE Sam and Cas try to figure out what to do with Michael? Or will going in the box kill Dean?

I actually don't know why the show is not letting Dean be real that at the end of the day, Sam and Cas are going to rescue him or die trying, so they need to ALL be on board with whatever plan they choose so that they don't end up inadvertently sabotaging each other. All this interpersonal "conflict" seems dumb as hell to me because we all know what each one of them is going to do. Dean will try to sacrifice himself, Sam will gather whatever resources he can to save him, and Cas will ultimately yoink him out of wherever he ends up. Off the top of my head, this has more or less happened at least three times before -- Hell, Purgatory, and when Dean became a demon.

Edited March 5, 2019 by rue721

[Myrelle]

1 minute ago, rue721 said:

What I don't get is, why not put Dean in the box and MEANWHILE Sam and Cas try to figure out what to do with Michael? Or will going in the box kill Dean?

I actually don't know why the show is not letting Dean be real that at the end of the day, Sam and Cas are going to rescue him or die trying, so they need to ALL be on board with whatever plan they choose so that they don't end up inadvertently sabotaging each other. All this interpersonal "conflict" seems dumb as hell to me because we all know what each one of them is going to do. Dean will try to sacrifice himself, Sam will gather whatever resources he can to save him, and Cas will ultimately yoink him out of wherever he ends up. Off the top of my head, this has happened at least three times before -- Hell, Purgatory, and when Dean became a demon.

Well, they haven't let NougatBaby save him yet. 

That's probably where they're headed though and IMO. 

I just want Dean to go into the box before that happens, but I'm not hopeful of that at all, tbh. Not with Dabb at the helm.

[rue721]

Honestly, I haven't paid a lot of attention to the specifics of the box. It seems so McGuffin-y to me. *shrug*

I'm interested in how Dean is feeling about having Michael in his head. I'm interested in what is going on between them other than Michael just bashing himself against the freezer door over and over. Like remember this cheesy yet awesome scene:

I feel like the show should take this Michael-trapped-in-Dean's-head in a much more internal, character-driven direction. Because the plot machinations of YET ANOTHER angel fight just aren't that interesting. The characters on this show are somehow perpetually interesting, though.

[AwesomO4000]

7 hours ago, rue721 said:

What I don't get is, why not put Dean in the box and MEANWHILE Sam and Cas try to figure out what to do with Michael? Or will going in the box kill Dean?

I'm guessing yes, it would kill him... depending on where the box is.* If the box is at the bottom of the ocean, then definitely it should kill him. Buried, ditto. And I would guess that once Dean dies, he either stays dead and Michael is trapped in a dead body, or Michael gets out to save Dean's body*** and is trapped in the box... in which case the box can't be opened to save Dean or it would let Michael out.

So I think pretty much Dean going into the box is it. There would be no way of knowing if opening the box would let Michael out, so I don't think there would be a safe way of retrieving Dean should they find another alternative.

* When Gadreel and Sam were sharing his body, Sam got injured when he was in control. Gadreel had to take over to save / heal / keep Sam from dying. Having Gadreel just in his body didn't keep him from getting injured or dying.

*** Dean could theoretically still be there - unless his soul gets reaped - but he wouldn't likely be in control.

[gonzosgirrl]

What I don't really get is, the box should work or it should not. What is the point of dumping it in the ocean or even burying it? If Michael can get out if/when he escapes Dean's head, then being underwater wouldn't hurt him. He could just zap to the surface. Theoretically, they should be able to just store it in the bunker. I think when Dean said being in the box wasn't safe enough, he meant safe from Sam or Cas opening it once the screaming starts. 😞

[SueB]

27 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

What I don't really get is, the box should work or it should not. What is the point of dumping it in the ocean or even burying it? If Michael can get out if/when he escapes Dean's head, then being underwater wouldn't hurt him. He could just zap to the surface. Theoretically, they should be able to just store it in the bunker. I think when Dean said being in the box wasn't safe enough, he meant safe from Sam or Cas opening it once the screaming starts. 😞

Possibly.  But again, they want this stored for eons.  Sam will eventually die and Cas will eventually end up in The Empty.  Jack -- somewhere along the lines of Cas.  So, bottom of the Marianas trench keeps it from accidentally being disturbed -- like King Tut's tomb.  Eventually SOMEONE is going to explore down there -- but with enough warnings on the outside -- welp, they may or maynot listen.  It at least buys the Multi-verses a few centuries. Maybe even an eon or two. 

[rue721]

29 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

he meant safe from Sam or Cas opening it once the screaming starts. 😞

Damn, that is dark. *shudder*

This is totally random spec, but maybe there's some way to suck Michael directly into the box, like how a curse sucks a genie into a bottle? If they're able to trap Michael in a place inside of Dean's head, maybe there's a way to trap him in something else outside of it? Or maybe they could somehow yank the whole freezer out of there?

[Cambion]

2 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

I'm guessing yes, it would kill him... depending on where the box is.* If the box is at the bottom of the ocean, then definitely it should kill him. Buried, ditto. And I would guess that once Dean dies, he either stays dead and Michael is trapped in a dead body, or Michael gets out to save Dean's body*** and is trapped in the box... in which case the box can't be opened to save Dean or it would let Michael out.

So I think pretty much Dean going into the box is it. There would be no way of knowing if opening the box would let Michael out, so I don't think there would be a safe way of retrieving Dean should they find another alternative.

* When Gadreel and Sam were sharing his body, Sam got injured when he was in control. Gadreel had to take over to save / heal / keep Sam from dying. Having Gadreel just in his body didn't keep him from getting injured or dying.

*** Dean could theoretically still be there - unless his soul gets reaped - but he wouldn't likely be in control.

Yes, it would kill him.  Going into the box would mean Dean would die in a few days at best (if he doesn't die from hypothermia first and has time to die from thirst -  deep ocean is cold ).  the problem is once he's dead Michael is out in his very own meat suit with no owner to evict him.  Cas has been using Jimmy's 'dead' body for how long? Angelic power - especially archangel power - keeps the bodies alive indefinitely with no need for a human soul to be in residence.  I think if the box were to happen, a million years from now if someone finds and opens the box, Michael would pop out fresh as a daisy wearing Dean like nothing ever happened.

The idea of trapping Micheal outside of a vessel is intriguing and certainly not without precedence.  Demons can be affected when in their smoke form -- the Devil's gate/demon trap kept them contained.  Hell, Dorothy and the wicked witch were kept in a bottle for how many years?  Yeah, that would be a good way out of this mess for all involved.

Unless my pet theory is the way they go where Micheal jumps into Nick and Lucifer does too and are so busy duking it out that Dean and company can shove them into the box and throw it into Mount Doom comes to pass, trapping Michael like a genie in a bottle is a good way to go.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Cambion

[tessathereaper]

4 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

What I don't really get is, the box should work or it should not. What is the point of dumping it in the ocean or even burying it? If Michael can get out if/when he escapes Dean's head, then being underwater wouldn't hurt him. He could just zap to the surface. Theoretically, they should be able to just store it in the bunker. I think when Dean said being in the box wasn't safe enough, he meant safe from Sam or Cas opening it once the screaming starts. 😞

Dumping it in the ocean is to keep OTHER people(or things) from opening it up.  Not just Sam or Cas but someone a hundred years from now.