These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation About SPN Spoilers

[catrox14]

I really hope they don't try to rewrite John's role by saying he knew that boys would save the world so he made sure they reunited by abandoning them. I mean that doesn't help John's case really. It doesn't change how he raised them so i guess there's that.

If they try to paint his ignoring their pleas for help when they were young adults, like when Dean was literally dying, that just whitewashes his dickish behavior. I would rather he just be left out of the story, and I wish they would take Mary out as well.

Of course this is Dabb's world and he allowed IMO JDM to dictate the story too much to get him back. JDM has said repeatedly he didn't think John got a fair shake. And now to get him back he got to say sorry and the end of Lebanon could imply John always knew and did things to make the boys be where they were.

I just want Lebanon to be a one off unrelated to the mythos going forward. But I fear Dabb won't let it be that.

[ILoveReading]

https://za.ign.com/supernatural/129388/feature/why-supernaturals-300th-episode-is-a-starting-point-not-an-e

Quote

Since the show was just renewed for Season 15, how are you building towards that in the upcoming episodes, and what might make it different from what's come before?

Oh, wow, it’s a little early for that. [Laughs.] will say that, true to Supernatural form, Season 14 does not end on [an] 'everybody is super happy and hugging' note, necessarily. Bad things are coming, as they always are, for the Winchesters. But I do think that, moving into 15 … I think that people will be surprised, and will be happy in terms of where we’re going, not only in terms of the plotline, but also in terms of our guys and their ongoing growth as people.

Okay this is a huge red flag for me because of the way Dabb sees the brothers.

  I said it before, Prophet and Loss= Point of No Return. 

Edited February 11, 2019 by ILoveReading
to bitch/jerk

[ILoveReading]

Quote

SUPERNATURAL
“Ouroboros”— (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (Content Rating TBD) (HDTV)

THE CHICKEN OR THE EGG? – Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) enlist the help of Rowena (guest star Ruth Connell) to track down a demi god who feasts on human flesh. The challenge of keeping Michael at bay is proving to be more difficult than originally anticipated. The episode was directed by Amyn Kaderali and written by Steve Yockey. (#1414). Original airdate 3/7/2019.

This is what irritates me.  Dean said repeatedly that Michael was close to getting out.  Neither Sam nor Cas listened to him.  They treated it as it was walk in the park.   They just assumed he was quitting and giving up.  Sam hit him to make him behave. 

So why all of a sudden are they surprised it's not that easy.

I wouldn't be surprised if Michael is possessing Jack.  (I think it was @Aeryn13 who guesed that).  If Michael did possess Jack it would fit with Jack in the Box. It sounds like it will be the episode where Michael get loose. 

Can't let Dean contain him too long.

Also from filming sightings the case will mostly be investigated by Sam and Rowena.  They were spotted on location filming together.  Jensen was not.  So he's probably back at the bunker angsting over Michael.

Edited February 15, 2019 by ILoveReading

[tessathereaper]

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

This is what irritates me.  Dean said repeatedly that Michael was close to getting out.  Neither Sam nor Cas listened to him.  They treated it as it was walk in the park.   They just assumed he was quitting and giving up.  Sam hit him to make him behave. 

So why all of a sudden are they surprised it's not that easy.

I wouldn't be surprised if Michael is possessing Jack.  (I think it was @Aeryn13 who guesed that).  If Michael did possess Jack it would fit with Jack in the Box. It sounds like it will be the episode where Michael get loose. 

Can't let Dean contain him too long.

Also from filming sightings the case will mostly be investigated by Sam and Rowena.  They were spotted on location filming together.  Jensen was not.  So he's probably back at the bunker angsting over Michael.

Yep heaven forbid Dean be allowed to take an active role in HIS own storyline(which they are are just dying to and will take away from him as soon as they can to give to some other character who'll do it "better" than Dean).

And NO ONE, NO ONE, better blame Dean if Michael gets out, he said it was hard, they showed Dean struggled, he practically begged them to just let him get into that box.  If one character says anything about Dean being weak, about it being Dean's fault, puts ANY blame on Dean for this, they are just done for me.

I don't like the way they  have that phrased, "more difficult than anticipated", Dean DID anticipate it and tried to get them to believe him, instead they treated him like he was giving up and pathetic and the MO in this show is to blame Dean for their own decisions. 

Dean couldn't do it on his own, because once they found out about it, without their agreement, Sam or Cas would do something to fuck it up anyway, if he did try to go into the box on his own.  Because that is what they do, they always think they know better.

Edited February 15, 2019 by tessathereaper

[ILoveReading]

7 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

And NO ONE, NO ONE, better blame Dean if Michael gets out, he said it was hard, they showed Dean struggled, he practically begged them to just let him get into that box.  If one character says anything about Dean being weak, about it being Dean's fault, puts ANY blame on Dean for this, they are just done for me.

Or this is the way that they'll give the story to Sam.  When Michael gets out, Sam will act all humble and say its his fault and how he has to be the one to take responsibility.  He'll be the one to sacrifice himself.   It will be called a sacrifce, not being weak and a quitter.  Dean won't get to say I told you so, and Sam looks comes out the BDH. 

Either way Dean looks weak.

Edited February 15, 2019 by ILoveReading

[catrox14]

I'm probably being naive here, yet I have hope because it's Steve Yockey's script, that he'll do right by Dean for the most part.

[AwesomO4000]

2 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Either way Dean looks weak.

How? He's caging an archangel. That Dean's holding him at all is amazing.

I highly doubt that there will be any blaming of Dean for not being able to hold him forever.

(Unfortunately if Michael doe escape, I also expect that it will be blamed on Sam - pretty sure that I predicted it - and I wouldn't be surprised of an I told you so either.)

2 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

He'll be the one to sacrifice himself.   It will be called a sacrifce, not being weak and a quitter.  Dean won't get to say I told you so, and Sam looks comes out the BDH. 

Sam getting to make up for his mistakes didn't happen with Amara, so there's no guarantee it would happen here either if Michael escaped.

Edited February 15, 2019 by AwesomO4000

[juppschmitz]

5 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Or this is the way that they'll give the story to Sam.  When Michael gets out, Sam will act all humble and say its his fault and how he has to be the one to take responsibility.  He'll be the one to sacrifice himself.   It will be called a sacrifce, not being weak and a quitter.  Dean won't get to say I told you so, and Sam looks comes out the BDH. 

Either way Dean looks weak.

Like I said before, Swan Song 2.0.

[ILoveReading]

Moving my response to @AwesomO4000 to Bitch/jerk just to be on the safe side.

The biggest thing I want is for Michael to continue to focus on Dean and for the confrontation to be between them, because so far Dean hasn't been able to beat him.

Edited February 15, 2019 by ILoveReading

[SueB]

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

Moving my response to @AwesomO4000 to Bitch/jerk just to be on the safe side.

The biggest thing I want is for Michael to continue to focus on Dean and for the confrontation to be between them, because so far Dean hasn't been able to beat him.

I don't understand.  Dean currently 'beat' Michael by locking him inside the cage in his head.  It's not a permanent solution but he's put Michael on lockdown.  That's HUGE.  Why is that not considered huge? 

[ILoveReading]

2 minutes ago, SueB said:

I don't understand.  Dean currently 'beat' Michael by locking him inside the cage in his head.  It's not a permanent solution but he's put Michael on lockdown.  That's HUGE.  Why is that not considered huge? 

He didn't beat Michael.  Sam was the one that actually got him in the the "cage."

The show isn't treating it like its huge.  Dean himself has said repeatedly he can't kee Michael in.  Prophet and Loss spelled out how they view Dean in situation.  Quitting. 

If Michael gets out, that's not beating Michael.

Edited February 15, 2019 by ILoveReading

[Aeryn13]

Quote

I don't understand.  Dean currently 'beat' Michael by locking him inside the cage in his head.  It's not a permanent solution but he's put Michael on lockdown.  That's HUGE.

It actually would be but the narrative isn`t treating it like it is. Prophet and Loss was all about how Dean is a suicidal quitter with a stupid idea. Noone, absolutely noone, acknowledges that holding back an archangel inside one`s own mind for days, weeks is not only hard, it`s amazing. 

They all act like it should be yesterday`s news. It`s like when he "couldn`t" hurt Amara and how that it was a personal failing. With exactly what he was supposed to hurt her, noone explained since weapons obviously couldn`t harm her.

If the show would verbally acknowledge that what Dean is doing by being cage inside his own mind, constantly overpowering a freaking archangel, that would be great. Someone should explain to me how he does it when he is asleep even. But then the writers couldn`t act like it was the most miniscule thing ever to accomplish.  

The framing makes all the difference. Dean`s decision in episode 12 couldn`t have been framed as heroic and tragic. Instead everyone acts like he is a teenager who needs to stop cutting for no reason.

[Lemuria]

Two things:

First, I agree that Dean told them and Sam and Cas did not want to listen.  He knew how hard it was going to be; it was Sam and Cas who pooh-poohed it.  This reminds me of season 8, where Sam insisted on taking on the trials because he saw a light at the end of the tunnel, while Dean was just giving up and being suicidal (can't begin to tell you how much I hated that nonsense; Dean was being pragmatic about how not easy it was going to be to close the gates of Hell without Hell's permission!)--and then, within an episode or two, Sam was going on about how Dean had been right and how hard it was.  

So...no lessons learned there, then, huh?

And, yes, I'll be ticked with both S & C--and anyone else--who criticizes Dean in any way over this.  The blame, if Michael breaks out, is on Sam and Cas, IMO.  It's amazing that Dean has held Michael at bay this long.

Second, I don't agree with the interpretation of "Michael breaks out."  Everyone's talking about Michael's jumping into someone else.  As I see it, that's referring to Michael's breaking out of the storeroom, not out of Dean.  The last time, he chose to leave Dean as part of a plan to ultimately destroy Dean's resistance to him.  In this case, Michael's breaking out would probably destroy Dean's resistance completely.  99.99999999999etc.% of Billie's books have the world being destroyed by Michael wearing Dean.  Why would Michael leave his "Perfect Vessel" to take a lesser vessel?  Especially if he intends to confront his Dad at some point?  That makes no sense, especially as the very act of breaking Dean's control would give Michael a compliant Perfect Vessel.

[Lemuria]

26 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

He didn't beat Michael.  Sam was the one that actually got him in the the "cage."

I have to disagree with this as well:  it was Dean's idea to lock him in there and he got the "storeroom" open; Sam just happened to be standing behind Michael and gave him the push in.  Dean then locked the door and has held it closed all this time.

[BabySpinach]

3 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

I have to disagree with this as well:  it was Dean's idea to lock him in there and he got the "storeroom" open; Sam just happened to be standing behind Michael and gave him the push in.  Dean then locked the door and has held it closed all this time.

I agree. The only way that Nihilism could have been more Dean-centric and Dean-positive is if he casually beat Michael one-handed while downing the house special with the other, Cas and Sam gaping uselessly by the wayside. I was fine with it being a team effort, and it certainly doesn't diminish the fact that it was Dean's idea and his mind, alone, holding back the most powerful archangel in creation, without even the assistance of demon blood or Death-reinforced walls.

I think if Dean were being unequivocally framed as just recklessly suicidal, he would have been made to apologize in 14.12. But the fact that he didn't, and got to strongly defend his position, and was also allowed to extract a promise from Sam and Cas that they would follow the original plan if there was no other option, all helped to keep the interpretation a lot more open.

It's perfectly possible that Dean WAS intended to come across as self-destructive, but there's also plenty of textual evidence against that. Certain acting choices undercut it further. This just doesn't feel as cut-and-dry as it easily could have been.

Whatever Michael's up to, it sounds like he's tinkering around in Dean's mind, perhaps subtly altering it in some way. I'm cautiously intrigued by what that could be. Or maybe he's found a way to rally his monsters while still trapped in that storage locker.

But it's definitely a mighty shame that Steve Yockey is being wasted on a Jack ep in 14.14 and on damage-control for Dabb's assistant in 14.15.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

But it's definitely a mighty shame that Steve Yockey is being wasted on a Jack ep in 14.14 and on damage-control for Dabb's assistant in 14.15.

Agreed. I would have volunteered Berens for that or for the Dean-light ep. 

That Michael would be tinkering away in Dean`s head was pretty much given away in that show teaser that came out before Nihilism. It is framed with all the banging on a door, intercut with other scenes, and then at the end you hear some squeaky wheeling. Indicating that the person behind the door obviously gave up banging on it but is about to try something more sneaky. 

Obviously, since we`re talking mindscape here, this all needs to be more metaphorical. I mean, what can Michael do, sequestered in a part of Dean`s psyche that marks a room in a "good dream" that never happened? He doesn`t have free access to Dean`s head with his memories etc. So what can he do? Can he re-structure Dean`s mind from within?

The concept could be really fascinating but I doubt the writers will do it justice. They will just be overly literal and treat that like Michael is really locked in a real room somewhere. Instead of turning everything into an psychological allegory.  

[ILoveReading]

10 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

That Michael would be tinkering away in Dean`s head was pretty much given away in that show teaser that came out before Nihilism. It is framed with all the banging on a door, intercut with other scenes, and then at the end you hear some squeaky wheeling. Indicating that the person behind the door obviously gave up banging on it but is about to try something more sneaky. 

I had to go back and check it out.  Good catch. 

[tessathereaper]

2 hours ago, Lemuria said:

I have to disagree with this as well:  it was Dean's idea to lock him in there and he got the "storeroom" open; Sam just happened to be standing behind Michael and gave him the push in.  Dean then locked the door and has held it closed all this time.

He didn't just "happen" to be standing behind Michael.  Michael shoved Dean to the ground like he was nothing and then Sam barrelled him into the storeroom.  Dean got tossed aside like he was trash and Sam came in and "saved" the day.

[catrox14]

27 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

He didn't just "happen" to be standing behind Michael.  Michael shoved Dean to the ground like he was nothing and then Sam barrelled him into the storeroom.  Dean got tossed aside like he was trash and Sam came in and "saved" the day.

I thought Dean did that on purpose, to throw Michael off which made way for Sam to shove him into the refrigerator.

[Aeryn13]

I thought that was a clumsy part of the fight. Especially as Michael so easily owned them in physical combat. However, he would have just as easily barreled through that door and chopped Sam and Cas into itty-bitty pieces if Dean hadn`t been the one to lock him up. 

A better metaphor for a mind battle would have been for Michael to clearly beat Sam and Cas as they were outsiders in that mindshphere but trade equal blows with Dean since it was all in Dean`s mind and that would have signified them evenly matched there with Dean for a split-second gaining the upper hand to lock him up.

But I thought Dean did the relevant part in locking Michael up regardless.    

[tessathereaper]

8 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I thought Dean did that on purpose, to throw Michael off which made way for Sam to shove him into the refrigerator.

You think Dean only tried to "fake" push Michael into the frig?  With everything that was at stake, why in god's name wouldn't he really push Michael in if he could have?  You can't take the chance in that situation.  There was no reason for Dean to "fake it".

[raven]

--- MOD  NOTE ---

This topic is for Bitter Speculation about Spoilers, not to debate/rehash events in past episodes or to make BvJ statements about how the writers view specific characters and their storylines.

[NougatJack]

20 hours ago, BabySpinach said:

I agree. The only way that Nihilism could have been more Dean-centric and Dean-positive is if he casually beat Michael one-handed while downing the house special with the other, Cas and Sam gaping uselessly by the wayside. I was fine with it being a team effort, and it certainly doesn't diminish the fact that it was Dean's idea and his mind, alone, holding back the most powerful archangel in creation, without even the assistance of demon blood or Death-reinforced walls.

I think if Dean were being unequivocally framed as just recklessly suicidal, he would have been made to apologize in 14.12. But the fact that he didn't, and got to strongly defend his position, and was also allowed to extract a promise from Sam and Cas that they would follow the original plan if there was no other option, all helped to keep the interpretation a lot more open.

It's perfectly possible that Dean WAS intended to come across as self-destructive, but there's also plenty of textual evidence against that. Certain acting choices undercut it further. This just doesn't feel as cut-and-dry as it easily could have been.

Whatever Michael's up to, it sounds like he's tinkering around in Dean's mind, perhaps subtly altering it in some way. I'm cautiously intrigued by what that could be. Or maybe he's found a way to rally his monsters while still trapped in that storage locker.

But it's definitely a mighty shame that Steve Yockey is being wasted on a Jack ep in 14.14 and on damage-control for Dabb's assistant in 14.15.

The official episode description for 14.14 doesn‘t even mention Jack. Only Sam, Dean, Rowena, some Demi God and the Michael problem. And, you can‘t even „waste“ something or someone on Jack. Not possible. Jack is pure gold.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

The official episode description for 14.14 doesn‘t even mention Jack. 

But the promo is entirely Jack-centric. And as the promo is comprised of at least scenes from the episodes, I`m gonna trust this more than some summary. Words are cheap. 

As for Jack`s potential, the character needs an edge already. So far he has been nothing but fluffy and cutesy and even his angst was 100 % just due to not controlling his powers or this Season being sad over not having powers and not because his personality has any sides to him beyond "fluffy". Sponge Bob has more of an edge tohis personality than he does. It would have been far more powerful if they would have made him a good person without making him so simplistically pure. The actor is quite good and likeable but the lollipop version of a character is just too childish for me.  

Heck, even if he gets darker because he burns off his soul, it`s an outward influence.       

[ILoveReading]

25 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

As for Jack`s potential, the character needs an edge already. So far he has been nothing but fluffy and cutesy and even his angst was 100 % just due to not controlling his powers or this Season being sad over not having powers and not because his personality has any sides to him beyond "fluffy". Sponge Bob has more of an edge tohis personality than he does. It would have been far more powerful if they would have made him a good person without making him so simplistically pure. The actor is quite good and likeable but the lollipop version of a character is just too childish for me.  

IMO, Jack commits the worst sin of all in a character in that he's boring.  Everything is just marshmallows with a side of fluff.   

I don't know if anyone watched DareDevil, but on s3 there is a character that reminds me of Jack.  IMO, that is truly how you do a nature vs nuture, dark and good side storyline.  I felt so bad for everything that happened to his character and the way he was pushed and pulled from both sides. 

25 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Heck, even if he gets darker because he burns off his soul, it`s an outward influence.       

At least that might make the character more interesting.  But the end result would probably be more pep talks and hand holding. 

Edited February 16, 2019 by ILoveReading

[ster1]

On 2/15/2019 at 8:48 AM, Lemuria said:

 Second, I don't agree with the interpretation of "Michael breaks out."  Everyone's talking about Michael's jumping into someone else.  As I see it, that's referring to Michael's breaking out of the storeroom, not out of Dean.  The last time, he chose to leave Dean as part of a plan to ultimately destroy Dean's resistance to him.  In this case, Michael's breaking out would probably destroy Dean's resistance completely.  99.99999999999etc.% of Billie's books have the world being destroyed by Michael wearing Dean.  Why would Michael leave his "Perfect Vessel" to take a lesser vessel?  Especially if he intends to confront his Dad at some point?  That makes no sense, especially as the very act of breaking Dean's control would give Michael a compliant Perfect Vessel.

 

I agree.  There's no tactical advantage for Michael to give up his Sword. He even described Dean as his "perfect vessel."  Plus, there is the problem of what happens to Dean if Michael leaves:

You fellas didn't think this out, did you? Even if you could force me out, what do you think I'd leave behind, hm? You'd be nothing but blood and bone

My guess is that Michael's going to escape, take control of Dean again, and take off to parts unknown. Without another solution in sight, I think Sam and Cas are going to have to find a way to get Michael into the Ma'lak box after all (maybe Jack does it, hence "Jack in the Box?") 

Obviously, Dean wouldn't stay in the box forever. Who knows, Chuck could show up and pull a deus ex machina. Wouldn't be the first time he's intervened on behalf of the Winchesters

[Aeryn13]

Quote

My guess is that Michael's going to escape, take control of Dean again, and take off to parts unknown. Without another solution in sight, I think Sam and Cas are going to have to find a way to get Michael into the Ma'lak box after all (maybe Jack does it, hence "Jack in the Box?") 

I would hate that really because when it was Dean`s plan to sacrifice himself into the box, it was all "wah, wah, you suicidal quitter" but in this scenario Dean is defeated and Sam and Cas (and Jack) get to be the big heroes by putting him into the box. Wouldn`t put it past Dabb but IF Dean goes into the box, it should really, really be under his own volition.

Ultimately, Dean needs to have his win against Michael to pay off this entire freaking Season at least in a miniscule way since they botched the arc overall. 

[tessathereaper]

42 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I would hate that really because when it was Dean`s plan to sacrifice himself into the box, it was all "wah, wah, you suicidal quitter" but in this scenario Dean is defeated and Sam and Cas (and Jack) get to be the big heroes by putting him into the box. Wouldn`t put it past Dabb but IF Dean goes into the box, it should really, really be under his own volition.

Ultimately, Dean needs to have his win against Michael to pay off this entire freaking Season at least in a miniscule way since they botched the arc overall. 

Agreed.  Dean needs to go into that box under his own volition.  I guess it would be OK if S,C and J can dump him in the Pacific afterwards but otherwise Dean needs to make the decision, Dean needs to get in that box of his own volition and under his own power and(if the top isn't too heavy, I can't remember what it looked like) I want him to close it on himself too.   Oh and if there is any kind of spell that needs to be said to finalize it, I want him to say that too.

Edited February 16, 2019 by tessathereaper

[ILoveReading]

I agree it has to be Dean's choice to go in the box otherwise it become's Sam's sacrifice and not Dean's.

But I think the box will turn out to be a red herring for Michael.  Because there was a spoiler that said they (which usually means Sam) find something that changes everything.  So it's probably some deuce ex machina weapon that will work on Michael. 

Just because Dean is Michael's perfect vessel and Billie's books say one thing, given Dabb I can't count on that as canon or factoring into anything.  (Nothing is canon with Dabb).  So I expect Michael will leave Dean (but we'll get a throw away line with Dean being worried Michael will be able to possesses him again).  Sam will find another weapon.  They'll go after Michael in stunt vessel number 4.  I wouldn't even be surprised they tell Dean to stay back because of the risk of him being possessed again.  He might decide to join but he'll probably get there after everything ends again.

Everything will go wrong, requiring Jack to use the last of his soul, turning him evil,  to hold Michael in place.   Sam stabs Michael.

There is also the Lucifer factor.  I think its inevitable he's coming back.  Even, if by some miracle  he doesn't the whole change everything Sam comes up with will be get Nick to agree with saying yes to Michael.   Then locking him in the box.

The final fight would be the same, Dean stays away, Sam fights, Jack saves the day. 

Jack becomes the big bag next year.

There is a fan favorite coming back for the finale.  It might be Chuck and we just have a repeat of the Amara situation.  With God apologizing to Michael and taking him to meet his Aunt Amara for a Sunday picnic.

Edited February 16, 2019 by ILoveReading

[juppschmitz]

49 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

get Nick to agree with saying yes to Michael.   Then locking him in the box.

That won't happen, because they'll never, never ever let go of Pellegrino. More's the pity.

[ILoveReading]

9 minutes ago, juppschmitz said:

That won't happen, because they'll never, never ever let go of Pellegrino. More's the pity.

That doesn't mean anything.  Even if Nick/Michael ends up in the box, the fan favorite returning could be Chuck rescuing him for his "sacrifice" and returning Nick to earth with a second chance.

Or maybe the polarity of the box will magically reverse and the box will raise itself out of the water, freeing Nick/Lucifer/Michael or any combination of all three.

[Myrelle]

IMO, there's no way Michael remains Dean-connected through the finale.

I'm betting that storyline will go to Jack, but only for the heroics that will then make him utterly soulless-and in that way he gets Dean's storyline and  one of Sam's, too-just to keep things "balanced", dontchaknow...🙄

[ILoveReading]

9 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

IMO, there's no way Michael remains Dean-connected through the finale.

I'm betting that storyline will go to Jack, but only for the heroics that will then make him utterly soulless-and in that way he gets Dean's storyline and  one of Sam's, too-just to keep things "balanced", dontchaknow...🙄

My prediction is basically a repeat of the end of season 13. Bascially what I described in the post above,  A big fight with Sam, Cas and Dean.  Dean  will be tossed aside first and drop the weapon.  Cas will get a few blows and be tossed aside next.  Sam will grab the weapon and Michael will just be about to kill him.  Jack burst in, and freezes Michael so Sam can get the kill.  Then Jack gets a pure evil look on his face.  Cas, Dean and Sam all exchange concerned looks.  Dean will get a line or two about how Jack doesn't have to be evil.

Jack will vanish.  The end credit scene will be Lucifer finding him, and saying something like 'Welcome back son."  Then the fade and the end credits. 

[juppschmitz]

I'm afraid you guys are right. There's no way the special perfect-vessel Dean/Michael focus will remain on Dean for the rest of the season. Also, a lot of focus will be on Jack, who bores me to tears, and on Nick/Lucifer, who are both so obnoxious that I refuse to watch either of them (seeing Pellegrino and hitting ff is almost a Pavlovian reaction for me).

So for the sake of my sanity I'll probably tune out for the rest of the season and only watch second-hand through you guys. (Unless some cool Dean scenes scenes happen, in which case I'll try and catch those.)

[Res]

10 hours ago, juppschmitz said:

(Unless some cool Dean scenes scenes happen, in which case I'll try and catch those.)

Or just catch them on tumbler or YT. 

[ZennyKenny]

22 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

That doesn't mean anything.  Even if Nick/Michael ends up in the box, the fan favorite returning could be Chuck rescuing him for his "sacrifice" and returning Nick to earth with a second chance.

Or maybe the polarity of the box will magically reverse and the box will raise itself out of the water, freeing Nick/Lucifer/Michael or any combination of all three.

Oh god. Nickciferchael is the big bad for season 15. NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

[SueB]

On 2/16/2019 at 4:01 PM, ILoveReading said:

There is a fan favorite coming back for the finale.  It might be Chuck and we just have a repeat of the Amara situation.  With God apologizing to Michael and taking him to meet his Aunt Amara for a Sunday picnic.

Do you remember where you picked this up?  I couldn't find any reference like this. Thanks in advance. 

[ILoveReading]

On 2/17/2019 at 11:28 PM, SueB said:

Do you remember where you picked this up?  I couldn't find any reference like this. Thanks in advance. 

Sorry, didn't see your post.  It was on Tumblr.  I tired to find the post again but couldn't.

Quote

In Supernatural Episode 14×08 (“Byzantium”), Castiel made a deal with the Empty to save Jack. Are we going to see how this is affecting Cas emotionally, and are Sam and Dean going to find out about it eventually? — Mel “The good news about being renewed early [for Season 15] is it allows us to try to space some of that stuff out. So I don’t know that we will be dealing with it this year,” co-showrunner Andrew Dabb reveals. “However, it is something that will need to be dealt with, and chances are Cas will not have a choice about when that happens.” Dabb says that Dean and Sam “may find out about [the deal] this year,” and their reaction will likely be similar to when one of them has made a like-minded sacrifice: “‘What the hell are you doing? But I kind of get.’ For our guys, the deal’s done, it’s in the past. It’s how do you deal with the consequences of it, and that’s going to weigh on everyone’s mind very strongly.”

Are you going to deal with Cas's deal.  Dabb.  Maybe next year. 

This is why Dabb is such a terrible show runner he does things for the sake of "feels" but has no actual plan at how to connect and deal with multiple storylines.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

Sorry, didn't see your post.  It was on Tumblr.  I tired to find the post again but couldn't.

Are you going to deal with Cas's deal.  Dabb.  Maybe next year. 

This is why Dabb is such a terrible show runner he does things for the sake of "feels" but has no actual plan at how to connect and deal with multiple storylines.

Dabb should be embarrassed to give an answer like that. No wonder the storytelling has gone to shit. He has no idea what story he is telling and apparently no control over his writers. 

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Dabb should be embarrassed to give an answer like that. No wonder the storytelling has gone to shit. He has no idea what story he is telling and apparently no control over his writers. 

The final scripts are written or mostly written at this point.  Dabb should know there the story is going, as show runner its his job to know.  TBH, his answer sounds like he either didn't read that script, or he forgot.   This has to be the most unprofessional BTS crew on tv. 

[Supafanstan]

16 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

The final scripts are written or mostly written at this point.  Dabb should know there the story is going, as show runner its his job to know.  TBH, his answer sounds like he either didn't read that script, or he forgot.   This has to be the most unprofessional BTS crew on tv. 

I don't even understand this. How can the showrunner not know what is happening for the rest of the season on his show?  There are only twenty episodes this season, right? They must have written all of it by now, if not filmed it. I get being evasive or teasing, but he sounds like he actually does not know. If he's trying to sound stupid and uninformed, it's working. 

[Aeryn13]

Haha, wouldn`t Dabb himself have written the Finale? He is still the listed writer for it. 

But I can picture the reaction. So I would say they set up the Cas situation pretty much like the "heaven in peril" story. Apparently it is this close to collapsing for a side mention in the odd episode here and there but otherwise noone gives a shit.

Of course the Empty made the stupidest bargain ever. Cas will be dragged away only when he is truly happy. Hahahahaha, that makes him the safest character on the show. 

When Buffy did that with Angel and "moment of true happiness", it was an obvious Chekhov`s gun that was clearly to be fired, seeing as how the Buffy/Angel ship sailed along so (apparently) smoothly. But holding that same sword over Cas` head doesn`t work remotely as well.   

[Wateroflife]

On 2/9/2019 at 3:40 PM, catrox14 said:

My gods. So that's that for the Michael SL?

Is this supposed to be absurdist poetic symmetry....The half son of John is Michael in the Cage... and the son of Lucifer is going be Michael's cage in the box??? LOLOLOL

Dear gods, if that is really the direction they go I will quit watching the show, Dean/Jensen or no. This option hadn't even occurred to me...so thanks for the heartburn, I guess?

[ILoveReading]

Quote

PLEASANTVLLE – Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Castiel (Misha Collins) follow a case to a picturesque little town in Arkansas, only to find out nothing is as idyllic as it appears to be. Dean (Jensen Ackles) and Jack (Alexander Calvert) take a road trip to visit an old friend. The episode was directed by Phil Sgriccia and written by Meghan Fitzmartin and Steve Yockey with teleplay by Meghan Fitzmartin. (#1416). Original Airdate 3/14/2019.

Sam gets the case and once again Dean gets to babysit.

http://www.ksitetv.com/supernatural/supernatural-spoilers-peace-of-mind-description/189425/

Edited February 22, 2019 by ILoveReading

[Myrelle]

I wonder if Dean still has Michael on lockdown in his head at that point.

[NougatJack]

3 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Sam gets the case and once again Dean gets to babysit.

http://www.ksitetv.com/supernatural/supernatural-spoilers-peace-of-mind-description/189425/

Uh, Dean got the case in „Optimism“ despite being with Jack, and that episode was fun to watch. I love  those two pairings Sam and Cas as well as Dean and Jack. 

I wonder who is the friend D & J visit and why? In „Unhuman nature“ Jack‘s condition has been the reason for the roadtrip. This time, will it be Dean‘s? 

Can‘t wait to find out.

[Aeryn13]

This is the episode that is extremely Jensen-lite so expect minimal Dean. 

Edited February 22, 2019 by Aeryn13

[PAForrest]

5 hours ago, PinkChicken said:

lol Jack with Dean is my favourite version of Jack so I cant complain that this is what happens when they try and stretch the guys schedules out by splitting them up

Well, we really only had that one instance this season while the nougat was dying except not so much, and most of it apparently was ad-libbed. So I can't say Jack is made more palatable with Dean for me since it meant so little the writer couldn't be bothered to, you know, write for them. I mean, yeah, traditionally characters are made better paired with Dean, but the first instance was an odd and minor unwritten set-up, so I can't judge.

What is obvious is that the Dean-Jack thing is going to be a meaningless throw-away c-plotlet because Jensen will have a blink and you miss it appearance in this episode, so for this viewer it's mostly a skip week.

And I guess nobody is worried about Michael in Dean's head anymore? That's so last week? Whatevs.

[ILoveReading]

10 hours ago, Myrelle said:

I wonder if Dean still has Michael on lockdown in his head at that point.

 I'm going to guess no.  Dabb said that the door gives way sooner rather than later.  He seems opposed to letting suspense build around the Michael arc.  He's spoiled it every time so far.

I'm guessing Michael escapes at the end of 14.  15 probably has Dean moping around the bunker so Jack suggests a road trip.

I just hope we're spared a scene of Dean asking Sam if its okay.

Edited February 22, 2019 by ILoveReading

[Bobcatkitten]

Okay, so I can't believe I'm going to ask this question. I feel like a conspiracy theorist. But is everything okay with Jared/Jensen? They have split them up so much this season that I'm starting to wonder. They could still have multiple storylines (aka filming less for J2) but keep the brothers together. But they keep separating them. 

And they haven't really hung out together except for obligations.