S03.E18: Part 18

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Moxie Cat said:

I think he said it was exactly 430 miles away. I guess from Twin Peaks, but in what direction?

I guess headed towards Texas? Lissie's Wild, Wild West?

[clack]

As far as I can figure out : 

1) Laura, as we see in Episode 8, is a personification of that Golden Orb thing, sent by the White Lodge spirits to stop Judy/the Mother/ the Experiment, who was released into the world by the atomic bomb test and who possessed the young Sarah Palmer by crawling into her mouth.

2) BOB then came into the world in order to stop Laura and possessed Leland.

3) Just as Coop was rescuing Laura from the past, Judy or the other Black Lodge spirits snatched Laura away and hid her in an alternate reality.

4) Coop and Diane followed some coordinates involving the 430 mile mark, performed sex magic, and entered the alternate reality, in which they were now named Richard and Linda.

Edited September 4, 2017 by clack

[Guest]

I just saw this theory posted on reddit:

Quote

last scene was a dream

laura in 1989 is the dreamer

cooper asks what year is it

laura's mother calls out to her from the waking world

laura recognizes her mother's voice and realize she's dreaming

she screams and wakes up back in 1989 the morning they would have found her body had cooper not had changed the past

I dunno. That veers into Bobby Ewing territory for me -- but it does do a lot to explain the last scene.  

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, Giant Misfit said:

 

I think Diane/Linda covered Cooper/Richard's face because she knew that it wasn't Dale she was having sex with. 

 

The tulpa establishmed it as one of her skills. God, past or present? 

[JAYJAY1979]

I guess this ending could either be a dream..or an alternate universe.

While the show was visually stunning, I do think perhaps a little network interference would have been best.  Sometimes it hinders, but other times..it can structure something.  

Who knew 'how's annie would be less frustrating then 'what year is it'.

[clack]

Some interpretations still assume that Laura was just a murdered high school student. She was not. Laura was a spirit (the Golden Orb) incarnated into the world via the White Lodge in response to the incarnation of the Black Lodge demon (Judy?) This was made explicit in episode 8.

The spirit of Laura is trapped in the same Red Room limbo where Cooper spent the last 25 years. Cooper time traveling into the past to retrieve Laura is an attempt to free her spirit.

We see Sarah Palmer/Judy wailing in response, and then smashing the glass of Laura's photo. Destroying this image of Laura leads to Laura-from-the-past being snatched away from our Orpheus, Agent Cooper.

Another observation : alternate reality Cooper (aka Richard) is not evil Cooper redux, but he's different than our Cooper -- tougher, less expressive, not quite as smart.

[Penman61]

Cooper "rescuing" Laura right before she's murdered is understandable but foolish, right?:  It won't keep Laura from having been raped again and again by her father.  And if Leland is still possessed by BOB, isn't it just a matter of time before he kills her?  And what if Coop goes back further and prevents BOB from inhabiting Leland?  Won't BOB just find a different host with a daughter to rape?  You begin to see the problem...

Branching alternate timelines are ultimately annoying and frustrating, IMHO.  The only ones that work (in terms of storytelling satisfaction for me) are when they loop or converge.  But just branching and branching...

[Moxie Cat]

2 hours ago, clack said:

As far as I can figure out : 

Clack, I really like your whole theory. So, basically, Lynch abandoned us halfway through the Cooper/Laura saga. And never explained what happened to Audrey. I mean, come on.

This is what frustrates me. I didn't expect resolution on absolutely everything. But after 25 years, I guess I had more of an expectation that Lynch would value this amazing opportunity to wrap up the show his way - and with 18 freaking hours to do it! I have serious doubts that Showtime will renew this. The original cliffhanger was a cliffhanger, but at least it didn't confuse you. With this, we are going to be left, probably forever, wondering what the hell was going on. I just think that's a lot to ask of viewers who stuck with you for the entire summer, not to mention returned to watch after decades.

I guess I should focus on the positive: Norma and Big Ed. And Nadine's silent drape runner success.

[Penman61]

True story:

Me, on first waking up:  "Thank God I didn't dream about that terrifying finale..."

Me, 30 seconds later, on remembering: "Last night I dreamed I was in a hotel, my brother [closest to me in age and most "twin" like of my many siblings] was in the same hotel but had a different room next to a BOILER THAT HE SAID KEPT HIM AWAKE ALL NIGHT."

Fuck David Lynch!

Edited September 4, 2017 by Penman61

[paigow]

Cooper = Kyle Reese? Is he changing a real timeline?

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Moxie Cat said:

But after 25 years, I guess I had more of an expectation that Lynch would value this amazing opportunity to wrap up the show his way - and with 18 freaking hours to do it! 

THIS! I respect David Lynch as an artist -- I do. Mulholland Drive and Lost Highway are two of my favorite films -- but they resolved in their respective two hours. And I've said before that seeing his artwork in person was a transformative experience I won't soon forget. So, when he chose to mine the same art film themes again with Twin Peaks, that seemed to work for me -- until it failed in the end with the last two episodes. TP was/is still a TV show with millions of fans who, after 25 years, and 18 hours, are yet again left holding the bag after the S2 finale cliffhanger. Not that I want everything wrapped up in a nice tidy package and delivered to me at the door, but I really don't feel like reading a bunch of think pieces for the next year about what this all meant, or didn't mean (even though I know I'll be reading them). As a character, Dale Cooper (or whoever the fuck he is) deserved better than to be left in the middle of the street in a panic wondering what year it was no more than he deserved to be left cackling maniacally into a bathroom mirror about the whereabouts of Annie.  

I noticed that the end scene mirrored exactly the end of the Sopranos -- the screen cut to black for an elongated period of time before the end credits rolled. 

And what of the themes of "home?" Dale-as-Dougie repeats the word. Mr C says "I've never left home," and Agent Cooper (at least I think it was still him) informs Laura she's "going home." The Fireman tells Cooper that "is is in our house now." Where's home? Where is "our house?" Was Cooper even a human being at any point in his life? 

I'll say that the scene with Laura/Page and Dale/Richard descending the steps of the not-Palmer home was one of the saddest and most beautiful images of the show. 

The whole thing has made me feel doppleganger-esque: half of me loved it all, half of me hated it all. Maybe The Final Dossier will help make sense of it all, but at this point, I have serious doubts.

[JAYJAY1979]

I agree that the original show resolved everything but showed that Bob would never die because Bob represented Evil...and we all know evil never dies.  I was satisfied with that because sometimes things aren't so cut and dry.

However, I think lynch focused too much on stuff outside of Twin Peaks..but I understood why becqause evil Coop had been roaming free for 25 years and we got to see the effects of that.

I guess the Bobby/Shelly/Becky thing shows that abuse carries from generation to generation...Shelly was lucky to escape Leo..but her daughter ended up in an abusive situation with a clear indication she wouldn't make it out like her mother sort of did.  You could tell Norma was watching them and realizing she was powerless to stop it.

I'm glad both Norma and Nadine moved on..letting Ed realize who he truly loved...and finally having him and Norma reunite...and Nadine finding success and contentment with Jacoby (which I always thought would have worked in the original show).

Audrey...either still in a coma, in a mental hospital, or perhaps dead and in limbo.  We will never know.

Diane...always wondered about her in the real.show..and Laura Dern is both beautiful yet mysterious and quirky...perfect person to cast as Diane...real or fake.

And I guess this timeline/alternate universe kind of answers the question of Annie...since maybe she was erased?

To everyone that wished Lynch had resolved things for the fans...remember this is the same man who refused to reveal Laura Palmers murderer until both the network and Frost insisted in it.  Since Showtime is less conservative then ABC..and Frost probably choosing his battles...no one could reign Lynch in without risk of the plug being pulled from the show.

[clack]

A theme running through the series was imprisonment. Think of all the scenes set in jails.

BOB and Judy are escapees from the Black Lodge. Cooper has spent 25 years trapped in a trance in the limbo of the Red Room. Laura 's spirit is also apparently imprisoned there. And now both Cooper and Laura end up trapped again, in some alternate reality, a reality in which they are lesser beings than their former selves.

Audrey remains imprisoned in what -- an asylum? Where she exists in her own type of an alternate reality.

Who do we see released from their prison/traps? Ed and Nora? Even then, two people who have yearned for each other since high school finally get together only when they're pushing 70. All those lost decades.

[Affogato]

8 minutes ago, clack said:

A theme running through the series was imprisonment. Think of all the scenes set in jails.

BOB and Judy are escapees from the Black Lodge. Cooper has spent 25 years trapped in a trance in the limbo of the Red Room. Laura 's spirit is also apparently imprisoned there. And now both Cooper and Laura end up trapped again, in some alternate reality, a reality in which they are lesser beings than their former selves.

Audrey remains imprisoned in what -- an asylum? Where she exists in her own type of an alternate reality.

Who do we see released from their prison/traps? Ed and Nora? Even then, two people who have yearned for each other since high school finally get together only when they're pushing 70. All those lost decades.

That's life. 

[Cheezwiz]

After sleeping & waking up, I still don't have any further thoughts/theories on "what happened". My only thoughts are irritated ones. So much time spent on characters who seemed like they may have an important part to play and then were suddenly dropped in a perfunctory manner. What happened to Becky? What was the point of Richard Horne? Why the hell did we spend part of an episode on Ashley Judd arguing with her sick husband? Why was Ashley Judd even a character? Who was the beaten up guy in jail? Who was Billy? Why so many mentions of him missing? Why so many randoms yammering at each other in the bar? So many dead ends, dropped threads, and sooooo much highway driving. This took precious time away from characters we cared about. So much mental energy spent on doppelgangers and tulpas and whatnot, and now we're adding fucking time-travelling to the mix?

We did get some satisfying resolutions (Big Ed & Norma, Nadine, Diane being Naido, another DoppelCoop being sent to live with Janey-E and Sonny Jim) but to tease us with bits of Audrey's story and to not follow through seems unnecessarily cruel. I feel like I was about to plant myself in a chair, only to have it yanked out from under me at the last minute.

As someone mentioned previously, "What year is it?" is the new "How's Annie?". Meh. See everyone in 25 years I guess. (***blows raspberry***)

Edited September 4, 2017 by Cheezwiz

[Penman61]

I've always found E. M. Forster's distinction between mysteries and muddles handy.  

Loosely, mystery is a valid response to confronting the unknowable/unfathomable in the human condition.  Unanswerable, it evokes awe, wonder, and sometimes terror.

Muddles, in contrast, are miscommunications and misunderstandings driven by selfishness, carelessness, ignorance, et al.

I'm fine with the mysteries of Twin Peaks:  Why would a father rape and kill his own daughter?  What can even the best-trained, well-intentioned FBI agent do when confronted with such evil?  How much of our parents are we?  What do we owe our fellow towns-people?   Aesthetically, I think Lynch is trying to find intuitive ways to evoke those feelings of mystery (and terror) as we confront these extremes of our existence.

I'm less fine with the muddles:  Where the fuck is Audrey?  What about Red and Shelly?  And Becky?  Why does Julee Cruise get thirty seconds and Eddie Vedder get an entire uncut song?!!?  What about the Las Vegas 1-1-9 woman/addict and her son?  What were all those Roadhouse rando convos?  And on, and on...

I think I'm coming to realize the most I can do with Lynch is properly sort the muddles from the mysteries.  But there are definitely muddles.

Edited September 4, 2017 by Penman61

[LoveLeigh]

I do think David Lynch is responsible for the Mandela Effect. 

[Pete Martell]

8 hours ago, loki567 said:

My personal reaction from the finale? "Yep, about what I expected." I was just kind of numb by the end of it.

IMO, unsatisfying on the whole. A lot of good individual moments and David Lynch is still one the best visual directors on the planet but character is vital to narrative. That as much as people want to point to the various Lynchian moments, Cooper, Audrey, and the other Twin Peaks residents were just as important to the love of the original series and Lynch put up as many barricades between them and the audience as possible. 

At the end, what were we left with except a bunch of pretty pictures that ultimately didn't mean much. 

The thing for me is I felt that Lynch did a log of things right with the Twin Peaks residents this season. I thought most of them were treated respectfully and written true to themselves, with 25 years added on. I was very happy with the glimpses of people like Lucy and Nadine and I felt they were finally true to what they should have been all along. I'm not really completely thrilled with where Shelly and Bobby left off (especially Shelly), but they were also true to themselves, and it was good to see Bobby turned his life around. And they can have their own ending in my head.

I think one of the main problems with Dale is the main reason he was kept away for most of the season, which is that the fan idea of Dale isn't what Lynch is drawn to in the character. We did get a big burst of it, then we got the man we had at the end - a hybrid, damned by fates and his own choices. I suppose one could say this isn't fair to fans who wanted to see their Dale again, which I would agree with, but their Dale was mostly a creation of 25 years of fanon. Lynch was responsible for a half season of that, but by the end of season 2 I thought his vision of Dale was changing - moving from the all-American archetype to a well-meaning but deeply flawed mess. The Dale in the finale reminded me a great deal of Dale in the back half of season 2, just more overtly unpleasant/driven. If we'd gotten that Dale for 18 episodes I think fans would have felt even more upset than they were about Dougie.

If I didn't feel like a lot of care was taken with most of the original cast I'd be pissed off - I can't lie about that. I just feel like Lynch mostly did right by them even as he seemed to want to focus more on other areas and other parts of his mind, not so much a return to the old. It's hard for me to explain. 

I do feel sorry for Audrey fans, because if Audrey was my favorite character and I got to see her again after all these years and her scenes amounted to arguing with her husband and waking up in some type of captivity, I'd be upset. She had a few good scenes but I do think she deserved more. Although Sherilyn Fenn seems pleased enough...

Edited September 4, 2017 by Pete Martell

[Cheezwiz]

5 minutes ago, Pete Martell said:

I do feel sorry for Audrey fans, because if Audrey was my favorite character and I got to see her again after all these years and her scenes amounted to arguing with her husband and waking up in some type of captivity, I'd be upset. She had a few good scenes but I do think she deserved more. Although Sherilyn Fenn seems pleased enough...

I always envisioned a completely different life for Audrey. In my mind she was badly injured in the bank explosion, but was never comatose and never impregnated. Inspired by her crush on Cooper, she recovers, leaves her fucked up family behind, and joins the Bureau. Becomes a bad-ass undercover agent (something she showed a talent for when investigating her Father's business). Has many hair-raising adventures. Never finds or reconnects with Cooper, but always thinks about him. The end.

[Pete Martell]

29 minutes ago, Cheezwiz said:

I always envisioned a completely different life for Audrey. In my mind she was badly injured in the bank explosion, but was never comatose and never impregnated. Inspired by her crush on Cooper, she recovers, leaves her fucked up family behind, and joins the Bureau. Becomes a bad-ass undercover agent (something she showed a talent for when investigating her Father's business). Has many hair-raising adventures. Never finds or reconnects with Cooper, but always thinks about him. The end.

I think that was part of the downside of bringing her back, because a lot of people (and Sherilyn) did see big things for her. I wasn't sure what they'd do with her, but I wasn't quite expecting what we got. I'm hoping her reaction means we may learn more. 

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, Cheezwiz said:

I always envisioned a completely different life for Audrey. In my mind she was badly injured in the bank explosion, but was never comatose and never impregnated. Inspired by her crush on Cooper, she recovers, leaves her fucked up family behind, and joins the Bureau

Well, maybe in the dimension/reality where Laura isn't dead anymore, Audrey does have that life since the Butterfly Effect might be in play. Or maybe Audrey never existed at all since it seems the Palmers never lived in the home -- I suspect any "reality" of Twin Peaks is now open for possibilities. 

[IDFfm0870]

And David Lynch did it again. Open end. Maybe forever.

Just ended watching the finale 5 minutes ago.

I'm in shock. Didn't expect this ending at all.

Is it beginning or is it over?

Mrs. Tremond is the original owner of the Palmer house? Or is it Mrs. Tremond's grandson talking from inside the house?

Hi Diane. It was nice meeting you for real. For a while.

No Audrey. Does Sherilynn Fenn's strange reaction back in 2016 make more sense now?

No Harry Dean Stanton.

Judy's !

Love that it was Cooper and (probably) Laura in the end.

I am seriously seriously curious what David Lynch will have to say about whether he wants to continue this or not.

[LilWharveyGal]

Well, just finished the finale and I'm firmly Team Jacoby - a lot of this sh*t needed shoveling.

[Affogato]

3 hours ago, Penman61 said:

, I've always found E. M. Forster's distinction between mysteries and muddles handy.  

Loosely, mystery is a valid response to confronting the unknowable/unfathomable in the human condition.  Unanswerable, it evokes awe, wonder, and sometimes terror.

Muddles, in contrast, are miscommunications and misunderstandings driven by selfishness, carelessness, ignorance, et al.

I'm fine with the mysteries of Twin Peaks:  Why would a father rape and kill his own daughter?  What can even the best-trained, well-intentioned FBI agent do when confronted with such evil?  How much of our parents are we?  What do we owe our fellow towns-people?   Aesthetically, I think Lynch is trying to find intuitive ways to evoke those feelings of mystery (and terror) as we confront these extremes of our existence.

I'm less fine with the muddles:  Where the fuck is Audrey?  What about Red and Shelly?  And Becky?  Why does Julee Cruise get thirty seconds and Eddie Vedder get an entire uncut song?!!?  What about the Las Vegas 1-1-9 woman/addict and her son?  What were all those Roadhouse rando convos?  And on, and on...

I think I'm coming to realize the most I can do with Lynch is properly sort the muddles from the mysteries.  But there are definitely muddles.

 

the muddling I see is that the mysteries you indicate, and the other ones, like how does a teenage girl confront the evil of her father's abuse and how does she maintain relationships with her friends while hiding the things that have happened to her? Have gotten muddled. Was Leland evil, as many men are, and protected by the norms of society, or was he an innocent possessed by Bob? 

Julee Cruise and Eddie Vedder is an artistic choice :-) not a muddle and I suspect that it has something to do with what was happening in Audrey's mind. 

I would say that Audrey was injured in the blast, raped by Cooper while in a coma or soon after, raised her child somewhere and is an exasperation to her father, like Jerry and Johnny. Damaged by rape. Possibly mentally unbalanced, it does run in the family. Maybe if Cooper had shown up and stayed at the great northern she would have seen him but he didn't.

And/or she is one of the people (Audrey 2)in some other dimension dreaming of this one and the Road House is a kind of way station between the worlds. 

Does anyone wonder about the dead guy in Laura's house, Page's house. Because I wonder about it. She is clearly abused and messed up in this world, too.

[Cheezwiz]

Perhaps Audrey is hovering in some limbo between realities - not because of coma or mental problems, but because of Cooper's time-travel and fiddling with the past. She existed once, and now suddenly she's nowhere.

[Affogato]

2 hours ago, Pete Martell said:

 

I think one of the main problems with Dale is the main reason he was kept away for most of the season, which is that the fan idea of Dale isn't what Lynch is drawn to in the character. We did get a big burst of it, then we got the man we had at the end - a hybrid, damned by fates and his own choices. I suppose one could say this isn't fair to fans who wanted to see their Dale again, which I would agree with, but their Dale was mostly a creation of 25 years of fanon. Lynch was responsible for a half season of that, but by the end of season 2 I thought his vision of Dale was changing - moving from the all-American archetype to a well-meaning but deeply flawed mess. The Dale in the finale reminded me a great deal of Dale in the back half of season 2, just more overtly unpleasant/driven. If we'd gotten that Dale for 18 episodes I think fans would have felt even more upset than they were about Dougie.

 

I think that the big head behind Dale as he does his I am the hero, I have arrived show in the Sheriff's Station, is an indication of that. He is a bigger than life hero. With Janey-E and the Kids, too. Honestly, we never see Dale really have coffee and pie. 

Well, he'd been watching Evil Himself do horrible things for 25 years and that has to take a lot of of him, to begin with. It seemed to me he had found something he needed in Twin Peaks, not (lord help us) Annie, but the bookhouse boys and Harry. Maybe he had it with Cole et al, once upon a time. I don't think the character does well on his own. 

[Affogato]

8 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

I just saw this theory posted on reddit:

I dunno. That veers into Bobby Ewing territory for me -- but it does do a lot to explain the last scene.  

I still haven't rewatched this episode, may even be a little reluctant to do so, or need a buffer of another day or two, however, it really really does explain a lot and wraps things up neatly enough so you can call it finished. 

[Affogato]

44 minutes ago, Cheezwiz said:

Perhaps Audrey is hovering in some limbo between realities - not because of coma or mental problems, but because of Cooper's time-travel and fiddling with the past. She existed once, and now suddenly she's nowhere.

That's possible, I suppose. Actually, while Ben, Audrey and Jerry are all played by hugely charismatic actors their plot lines were all in the reality based twin peaks plots, like ghostwood and the mills and the pine weasels. Audrey gets into the bordello at one point, of course. Still none of them are huge players in the supernatural lodges game, which is what the third season is mostly about, I think, hence the relatively limited attention paid to any of the Hornes (except evilcrazypants, of course).  However it is a great basis for a fan fiction, you should write it!

Include where Johnny got that genuinely terrifying teddy bear. 

[Guest]

This is likely a dumb question, but to the matter of Briggs' note -- did they ever return to Jack Rabbit's Palace on October 2 or did they only make the one trip on October 1? 

40 minutes ago, Affogato said:

I still haven't rewatched this episode, may even be a little reluctant to do so

I usually rewatched every episode following its premiere. I was so confused and devastated last night I couldn't. Thinking about rewatching tonight, but the idea still fills me with dread. I just don't feel like getting kicked in the teeth again. I mean, again, I was totally expecting a shitty ending for Agent Dale Cooper -- how could he even have  a good one after being not-of-this-earth for 25 years? But it was just that that ending was so agonizing for him - and for Laura (whoever she was). Not to mention the futility of all of it. I understand it's not about the bunnies, but part of me still wonders, is it about the bunnies?

[Fable]

I am sorry I spent time watching this.  I loved the old school Twin Peak characters, and I wanted to see them, but this show was a mess.  For me, nothing made sense.  

[paigow]

Giant / Fireman was able to teleport EvilCooper... It took 25 years to set a trap??? Was he unable to create another portal anywhere else?

[Affogato]

11 minutes ago, Giant Misfit said:

This is likely a dumb question, but to the matter of Briggs' note -- did they ever return to Jack Rabbit's Palace on October 2 or did they only make the one trip on October 1? 

I usually rewatched every episode following its premiere. I was so confused and devastated last night I couldn't. Thinking about rewatching tonight, but the idea still fills me with dread. I just don't feel like getting kicked in the teeth again. I mean, again, I was totally expecting a shitty ending for Agent Dale Cooper -- how could he even have  a good one after being not-of-this-earth for 25 years? But it was just that that ending was so agonizing for him - and for Laura (whoever she was). Not to mention the futility of all of it. I understand it's not about the bunnies, but part of me still wonders, is it about the bunnies?

One of the reddit people commented that Odessa's patron animal is the bunny and they have bunny related festivals. I dunno. There are a bunch of highly complex theories floating around, like the last episode happens before the first episode. I can see that, too, but I think Lynch would have been clearer about it, something at the end indicating time. They are fun but none are actually satisfying.. I don't think, as so many people seem to, that Mark Frost is a huge force for normal storylines and behavior, but the book may at least resolve some of these issues, although probably not the way we want it to. 

[dosodog]

So. It's been nearly 24 hours.

I can't decide if I feel kind of cheated.  Or if I'm just not intelligent enough for David Lynch.

[Pete Martell]

19 minutes ago, paigow said:

Giant / Fireman was able to teleport EvilCooper... It took 25 years to set a trap??? Was he unable to create another portal anywhere else?

I think he may have been waiting until he had the capability to kill Bob.

[Starchild]

So, any news on Season 4? After this, there has to be a Season 4, right? Right?

[paigow]

21 minutes ago, Pete Martell said:

I think he may have been waiting until he had the capability to kill Bob.

There was nobody in Washington that he could have given the magic glove to?

Why not James? It might have prevented him from singing at The Roadhouse....

[Pete Martell]

10 minutes ago, paigow said:

There was nobody in Washington that he could have given the magic glove to?

Why not James? It might have prevented him from singing at The Roadhouse....

Beyond the plot device-y ness of it all, I just headcanon that there were certain genetic and psychological factors in who was chosen and that it would also have to happen at a certain time. 

I think it may have also been based on who would look good with their mouth and chin covered in blood.

[Moxie Cat]

1 hour ago, Starchild said:

So, any news on Season 4? After this, there has to be a Season 4, right? Right?

Honestly, if Lynch couldn't wrap this up in 18 hours, why give him another season?

idk if this finale was a ploy to get more episodes out of Showtime or just "this is my vision" but he had the opportunity to wrap this up. He didn't do it. At this point, why should we expect that another season would give us that? I pretty much throw my hands up at this point.

Aside from the Coop/Laura and Audrey storylines, I'm actually happy with the resolution for most of the original characters. Especially Norma, Ed, Nadine, Dr. Jacoby. Ben Horne is arguably a little bit of a better person and his brother is still his own drummer but they have a relationship. Hawk and Mrs. Briggs (Miss Beadle!) are doing well. Bobby and Shelly are still living in a soap - that just goes on and on and doesn't need resolution (though if Amanda Seyfried is dead, that sucks). We saw many beautiful scenes with the Log Lady. Andy and Lucy are doing remarkably well (Rolex, Fiji) even if their son is a dope. James is a townie but has a decent job (honestly that doesn't surprise me one bit). Dr. Hayward is fishing! Even Mike "is the man" has grown up. Lynch did put some effort into revisiting these characters, which he didn't have to do.

Trying to spin positive out of the experience as a whole. But it's hard to not forgive more progress with Audrey. What did Fenn say? I'm sure I read it back when but I don't remember.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Moxie Cat

[TattleTeeny]

10 hours ago, Penman61 said:

Cooper "rescuing" Laura right before she's murdered is understandable but foolish, right?:  It won't keep Laura from having been raped again and again by her father.  And if Leland is still possessed by BOB, isn't it just a matter of time before he kills her?  And what if Coop goes back further and prevents BOB from inhabiting Leland?  Won't BOB just find a different host with a daughter to rape?  You begin to see the problem...

Branching alternate timelines are ultimately annoying and frustrating, IMHO.  The only ones that work (in terms of storytelling satisfaction for me) are when they loop or converge.  But just branching and branching...

YES! I am having trouble believing that Cooper, of all people, would not understand the Butterfly Effect!

[Pete Martell]

22 minutes ago, Moxie Cat said:

Honestly, if Lynch couldn't wrap this up in 18 hours, why give him another season?

idk if this finale was a ploy to get more episodes out of Showtime or just "this is my vision" but he had the opportunity to wrap this up. He didn't do it. At this point, why should we expect that another season would give us that? I pretty much throw my hands up at this point.

Aside from the Coop/Laura and Audrey storylines, I'm actually happy with the resolution for most of the original characters. Especially Norma, Ed, Nadine, Dr. Jacoby. Ben Horne is arguably a little bit of a better person and his brother is still his own drummer but they have a relationship. Hawk and Mrs. Briggs (Miss Beadle!) are doing well. Bobby and Shelly are still living in a soap - that just goes on and on and doesn't need resolution (though if Amanda Seyfried is dead, that sucks). We saw many beautiful scenes with the Log Lady. Andy and Lucy are doing remarkably well (Rolex, Fiji) even if their son is a dope. James is a townie but has a decent job (honestly that doesn't surprise me one bit). Dr. Hayward is fishing! Even Mike "is the man" has grown up. Lynch did put some effort into revisiting these characters, which he didn't have to do.

Trying to spin positive out of the experience as a whole. But it's hard to not forgive more progress with Audrey. What did Fenn say? I'm sure I read it back when but I don't remember.

I think she mostly said she was satisfied. Today she tweeted "all is well" to a fan who was upset, I think. I'd read that she filmed more than what we saw, so I don't know if that means we will get more answers, or it just wasn't aired. Given how vocal she is I'd think if that was it for Audrey (one of the cruelest fates for a returning character on a show, especially a popular character), she would not be fine about it.

I'm torn about Bobby and Shelly (more about Shelly being with a drug lord and she and Bobby never really having a strong scene alone together - in terms of Bobby alone we got a lot more than I ever thought we would) but I agree with the rest. It's one of the reasons why if this is it I won't be hugely upset, whereas with some shows when I feel betrayed by them I will hate them to the end of time. If another return would trash this then I wouldn't want it. It's just there's still a lot I think they could explore and I feel like some of what was left open was left open for exploration and not just for some unending mystery of life. So...I'm more on the side of hoping for another season and then hoping I don't regret it. 

I guess right now most people are probably too numb or annoyed to have much of a reaction even if Lynch did suddenly say he wanted more.

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

I always envisioned a completely different life for Audrey. In my mind she was badly injured in the bank explosion, but was never comatose and never impregnated. Inspired by her crush on Cooper, she recovers, leaves her fucked up family behind, and joins the Bureau. Becomes a bad-ass undercover agent (something she showed a talent for when investigating her Father's business)

...and dyes her hair red, gets teamed up with Fox Mulder, and makes good use of her previous experience with creepy, weird scenarios!

[dwmckim]

Spent a lot of the last 24 hours processing everything and working out different theories in my head - all kinds of separate ideas that may be independent or could tie in with one another.  I'll really reluctant to share too much until after i've read Frost's The Final Dossier (and thank FROG that's coming soon because i think that's gonna give me some of the closure i need)

But i'll give a slight tease of the main thing going through my head right now but will save details on where i think it's going til a later date but i think in many ways the finale was both a Lynchian way to keep a sense pf mystery and unclosed ending if this is indeed the end as well as a "cliffhanger" in case more did indeed come after.  In many ways, right where it left off actually strikes me very much as the midpoint of the story they've been telling.  And in the theory i'm working on in my head, Audrey is very much the key to everything...but like i say i'll go into more detail at a later time how i came to that conclusion and where i think everything would lead til after i get those final morsels of food for thought.

[Ms Lark]

15 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

As someone mentioned previously, "What year is it?" is the new "How's Annie?". Meh. See everyone in 25 years I guess. (***blows raspberry***)

That'll make Lynch 96 so I kinda doubt it! :D

 

11 hours ago, dosodog said:

I can't decide if I feel kind of cheated.  Or if I'm just not intelligent enough for David Lynch.

I recommend cheated. I don't think anyone is intelligent enough for David Lynch -- in David Lynch's mind, anyway. So, yeah, cheated it is.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Starchild said:

So, any news on Season 4? After this, there has to be a Season 4, right? Right?

According to KM in a couple of interviews post-finale, there are no talks for a S4. By saying he'd be interested in doing it, he's not ruling it out - but there are no plans right now to do it. 

Sabrina Sutherland is doing an AMA on Friday at 3:00 PM (PST). Maybe she'll have more insight though I somehow doubt it.

[jsbt]

All Kyle's said is there have been no discussions. He's also said before he thinks there'd be more, and he's not the only one who's said so.

What's more curious is this: Sabrina Sutherland has made it clear there are things she won't answer in her AMA but has yet to say what they are, and the show's NDA runs for five years. So I guess we'll see.

[smores]

Even if there is a season 4, I don't know if I'm in. I recognize that it's Lynch's property, it's his vision and his dream and he can clearly do what he wants with it.  But, at the same time, as I see it, there were a few camps of people who were eagerly waiting for The Return.  There are people who are die hard Lynch fans are into anything he does.  They watched the original show because he did it, and are in to this one for the same, and it's with this group that I think he has the biggest "leash" when it comes to running in whatever direction.  Then there were people who were really, really into the original over the last 25 years (whether they watched it on it's initial run or found it in between), this group is in for a lot of the "weird" but, got left a bit behind with some of the choices that were made.  Lastly, there were people who watched the show, remember it kind of fondly, but maybe weren't into analyzing every single detail and just took it for what it was, enjoyed it and figured, yeah, I'll see what happens this time.  This group just got really screwed, because they were nothing like each other.  

I fall between the 2nd and 3rd groups.  I do like puzzling out some of the meanings, but, at some point, I am just trying to watch a show.  I want to be challenged, but I don't want it to be an obsession that takes over my life, which is what I feel like it would have to do to begin to try to understand a lot of what it is.  I can understand challenging things in life, and I am able to pick up on many of the themes in the show, etc, but, I'm left feeling that it's being weird for the sake of being weird.  And, I definitely felt left out with the switch from ABC to Showtime, because I am not someone who tolerates gore/horror so I spent quite a bit of the show with my head turned away unable to watch things.  (for reference, the guy that new Laura shot in her house that Coop just ignored? no problem seeing, but, couldn't watch after the arm wrestle)  I felt that the original was able to convey shock, horror, etc, without having to be as graphic, and I totally recognize that it's 25 years later and Showtime, but, I'm part of the audience who was an avid fan that is likely drifting away because there seems to be no effort to balance things at all to the entire audience.

[Pete Martell]

57 minutes ago, smores said:

I fall between the 2nd and 3rd groups.  I do like puzzling out some of the meanings, but, at some point, I am just trying to watch a show.  I want to be challenged, but I don't want it to be an obsession that takes over my life, which is what I feel like it would have to do to begin to try to understand a lot of what it is.  I can understand challenging things in life, and I am able to pick up on many of the themes in the show, etc, but, I'm left feeling that it's being weird for the sake of being weird.  And, I definitely felt left out with the switch from ABC to Showtime, because I am not someone who tolerates gore/horror so I spent quite a bit of the show with my head turned away unable to watch things.  (for reference, the guy that new Laura shot in her house that Coop just ignored? no problem seeing, but, couldn't watch after the arm wrestle)  I felt that the original was able to convey shock, horror, etc, without having to be as graphic, and I totally recognize that it's 25 years later and Showtime, but, I'm part of the audience who was an avid fan that is likely drifting away because there seems to be no effort to balance things at all to the entire audience.

I think that the first season had the best balance between themes, atmosphere, plot and character. The second season I had many problems with (although it had a lot of good stuff too) and one of the reasons was because I thought they had tons and tons of plots, pointless plots that clogged the drain and degraded a number of characters in my eyes. This season was more of an emphasis on themes and atmosphere. So much so early on that I actually was surprised when they began moving into more character work and soap-ish material and I started to wonder if we were going to get the best of both. Instead they took a sharp turn in the last few episodes back to themes and atmosphere. 

I prefer season 3 to season 2 because as much as I love soaps (old soaps, at least...) with Lynch I think I prefer themes, atmosphere, and performances over plot, but if this was it I do wish they'd wrapped up a few more plots. I'm glad they at least wrapped up Norma/Ed/Nadine, as that should have ended in season 2 and it was what the characters - and fans - deserved. Other than the Audrey thing I don't mind the other stories being unresolved, but it also casts a bit of a pall over the season for me.

If there is a season 4, I still don't expect an easy ending, and I'm fine with that, but I do hope the balance of character and atmosphere is back to season 1 levels of finesse.

[Jalyn]

I read a lot of Diane's actions as a reaction to the rape by Mr. C. First she learns that while she was violated, it wasn't truly done by a man that she loved and trusted. That's her immediate reaction to finding the real Cooper. Then, however, he goes back into the lodge - he puts himself back into the situation that created the man that did violate her. That has to be frightening, she has to be concerned that the man that hurt her will return instead. 

When he comes back out, she's reassured that it is still her Cooper, the one that she can trust. Except, she can't forget that she has been violated by that body, that face. That's why, when they have sex, she has to cover his face. Whether he is the real Cooper, Mr. C or some combination of the two - she's still looking at the same face she was looking at while she was violated. Even loving Cooper and having him back is not enough to deal with the trauma being ripped open over and over just by being with him. 

[queenanne]

5 hours ago, jsbt said:

All Kyle's said is there have been no discussions. He's also said before he thinks there'd be more, and he's not the only one who's said so.

What's more curious is this: Sabrina Sutherland has made it clear there are things she won't answer in her AMA but has yet to say what they are, and the show's NDA runs for five years. So I guess we'll see.

I would suspect the duration of the NDA has more to do with network reservations about Lynch's timing and deadlines meeting capacity,  maybe...  the head of Showtime seemed to answer the question pretty definitely a few (?) weeks ago at the Upfront's, basically saying 'There was never any discussion for anything further than one-and-done.'

 If Showtime were a ratings motivated venue, I'd say it depends on ratings.  Because it isn't and thus doesn't, I don't feel wildly positive about the chances of a Season 4, considering the statements of the network head.  I would think if there were wiggle room, he would have made a vaguer statement.  'We're always open to discussion,' or similar.

Edited September 5, 2017 by queenanne

[PatternRec]

Sherilynn Fenn  has said that she shot more than what was shown. Other actors have said they suspect there will be more. Lynch is always huge about secrets and as @jsbt says above the NDA goes well past the end of the show. I suspect sometime after the book comes out on Halloween we'll hear about a movie or something. The economics of tv and movies are different enough now that they could do a limited release for theaters and release it as a streaming video at the same time.
I don't expect Lynch to answer certain of the bigger questions. That's not his style. But I do suspect he has more stories to tell in this world. 

Edited September 5, 2017 by PatternRec