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S03.E06: Face Your Demons


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Jazz helps a transgender pal who is bullied by her own mother.  Meanwhile, Jeanette decides to attend a support group to discuss her concerns about Jazz's upcoming medical decisions; and Jazz hopes for a call from a boy she met at "Dating in the Dark."

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The last phone call on the "Facebook live" scene sounded very similar to the (staged) angry caller from season 2.

 

The final scene where the "Dating in the Dark" boy calls Jazz also looked staged.

 

Filming for this episode wrapped at the end of November 2016.

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(edited)

I'm not liking how every single scene with Jazz is transgender. Sitting in the car with her brothers was so staged when talking about rememberance day.  I want to see normal interactions, her normal life, not 24/7 transgender talk.   It's becoming boring;  similar to a 24 hour public service announcement.

Although I did laugh during the talking heads when Jeanette was saying she was a 3.5 in scuba and Greg holds up his hand and  shows a 2 and quickly stops when she see's him.  That was cute.

Edited by winnter
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Boy, I dislike Jeanette more and more each week. If Greg doesn't want to go to the Transgender Remembrance Day, he should not have to. I get his point, it's just too hard.  I'm very glad he went and I'm sure Greg is glad he went, but she ramrods her feelings on others. She really needs a job. 

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53 minutes ago, winnter said:

Although I did laugh during the talking heads when Jeanette was saying she was a 3.5 in scuba and Greg holds up his hand and  shows a 2 and quickly stops when she see's him.  That was cute.

They are getting really good with the talking heads segments on season 3. Greg and Jeanette have mastered the art of looking organic in front of the camera. I think they are on par with some other top rated reality shows with this season.

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If Jeanette doesn't want to do something she acts like a dork and won't even try . You never know you might like it. If it's anything to do with transgender issues she's all about it. She will need something in her life besides jazzy someday.

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9 hours ago, winnter said:

I'm not liking how every single scene with Jazz is transgender. Sitting in the car with her brothers was so staged when talking about rememberance day.  I want to see normal interactions, and then normal life for her.   It's becoming boring;  similar to a 24 hour public service announcement.

Can't they take a break for 5 minutes and talk about something else. It's trans OCD.

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38 minutes ago, Ina123 said:

Can't they take a break for 5 minutes and talk about something else. It's trans OCD.

I agree, but I have to say, the scuba diving bit was beyond boring!

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If I didn't know better, I'd think Jazz was obsessed with bowling. She's always talking about fighting "bowling" and how bad it is that people are "bowlied" for being different. It's so weird when people on these shows can't pronounce something that's so important to them, like when Bill and Jen of The Little Couple kept talking about hiring a "sarahgut" to have their baby.

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1 hour ago, JocelynCavanaugh said:

If I didn't know better, I'd think Jazz was obsessed with bowling. She's always talking about fighting "bowling" and how bad it is that people are "bowlied" for being different. It's so weird when people on these shows can't pronounce something that's so important to them, like when Bill and Jen of The Little Couple kept talking about hiring a "sarahgut" to have their baby.

I haven't noticed anything odd about how Jazz says "bully." Sounds nothing like "bowling" to me.

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That first scene with Jeanette and Greg talking where Greg is getting into the bed and is like "do I get under the blanket?" Jeanette: "And the sheet." WTF, has Greg never gotten into a bed before? Also why are they getting into bed to discuss Jazz's "dating in the dark" on camera? This episode had so many staged moments it was hard to keep track.

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I seriously hate how staged this is becoming. Sorry, but there's a third row in that car. No way in hell the boys and Jazz are crammed into the single seat. Plus, physically, she's smaller than the boys. I have two brothers and any time we get into a car (even now at 38, 36, and 33), we still don't sit right up against one another if we don't have to and smallest one has to take the "bitch" seat. It's why my parents moved from a sedan to the minivan. "Not touching, can't get angry" is easier to deal with than "Mom, she's in my space!" Plus twin on the door clearly wanted to be anywhere but there. I think the boys are starting to resent that all the public ever sees is chats about trans issues and Jazz and never anything else. I can imagine they field a lot of "is all you guys do is talk about your trans sister" questions and it may annoy them. Plus Ari wasn't there for this "family" adventure. Apparently, Matt & Amy Roloff's convenient "all of the family is here" with no Jacob attitude is contagious.

Jeanette annoys me to no end. She needs a hobby outside of Jazz. I think we also got to see a clearer picture of her relationship with Greg. Clearly, what she wants, she expects him to do for her (I wonder where Jazz got that). If he didn't want to attend remembrance day because it makes the threat to Jazz too real or it's too hard, that's okay. Let him deal with things as he sees fit. He supports Jazz, he just isn't comfortable thinking about how she could die. I also found it a little weird that Jazz spoke at the remembrance day event. I feel like Noelle or Shawn talk about their experiences. Jazz's experience is not the normal experience for a trans teen, as Noelle has pointed out before. I suspect that the Facebook Live caller was staged so Jazz would have a "bully" experience to talk about. The whole scene just didn't seem to be realistic and in the moment, especially when the first caller said they were calling from the Netherlands, Norway or somewhere (? I remember it was in northern Europe). Facebook Live lets people comment in real time so she wouldn't have needed a second phone. The bed scene "do I get under the sheet" and this just rubbed me as staged.

Next week's promo of Jazz lecturing her grandfather has me already annoyed. Her horrible behavior and self-righteousness is really starting to make me dislike her. It has nothing to do with her gender and everything to do with her spoiled brat behavior. The fact that Jeanette didn't repremand her and has apparently taken her side on this just really makes me loathe Jeanette. Just because you expect manners from your child does not mean that you are stifling her gender identity. It just means that you are raising a child who will become a well-mannered adult. You are not Jazz's best friend. You are her mother!

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6 hours ago, MegD said:

I suspect that the Facebook Live caller was staged so Jazz would have a "bully" experience to talk about.

I agree! I just don't see much of anyone in my ordinary life terribly bothered by the transgender experience -- who are a tiny proportion of the population. It's frankly a bit insulting to tolerant and accepting people of all descriptions to have everyone depicted as bullies. So much of the show revolves around these TG discussions that I wonder how it is affecting their lives 24/7. There seem to be a lot of either/or scenarios; I wish we could see more intelligent discussions of questions and concerns various people have, and how they approach solutions or changes of heart. I feel a bit hit over the head by "it's got to be Jazz's way or the highway" and hope the producers find some more middle-of-the-road scenes.

I do find Noelle and Shawn's (did I get the name right?) portraits poignant and relatable. I hope we meet some more of these kinds of warm TG people in future eps, and perhaps meet their families, too. 

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Just watched episode 6.  I was impressed that Jazz was willing to discuss bottom surgery in her Facebook thing, but as long as they are being this open, why do they not address the hostile caller who said they were just attention seekers?

The guy said "I think you guys are all just looking for attention."   There is obviously a strong case to be made for that.  So hwy do they not ever address the possibility that this is not a real thing?  That is politically incorrect, I know, but it is a real possibility that is never ever addressed.  Even if not ALL transgender people are Munchhausen by proxy, (as has been speculated for Jazz and Jeanette) certainly some are.  Why is it that conversation so completely verboten?  

I read a gay forum called datalounge, in which the transgender movement is soundly ridiculed as being an attempt to deny homosexuality.  The gay community (or at least significant portions of it) resent the T in LBGT, as they feel, I think, that the Trans community is critical (denigrating of) the gay community and that parents do not wish to entertain the possibility that their child is a gay man rather than a transexual woman (or a lesbian rather than a transgender man).  Why are THESE questions not addressed on, of all things, the LEARNING channel?  These are the issues that SHOULD be addressed, certainly before having SURGERY.  
 

Does anyone agree?  Am I about to be soundly chastised?

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It's so disconnected, the reality of the average transgender young person, and Jazz's reality. When Lynn was telling her story, I felt so bad for her that her mother seems very non supportive, to the extent that she uses male pronouns with Lynn. Lynn looks Hispanic to me, so if that's true, I can imagine her family may be a very traditional Hispanic family with little to no exposure to the LGBTQ community. I'm not saying ALL Hispanic families are like this, only that it seems possible Lynn's family is like this based on what she shared. So if that's the case, why is it always the first thing Jazz jumps on, "Does she use male pronouns with you?!? DID YOU CORRECT HER?!?" I mean shit girl, slow your damn roll! This kid lives in what sounds like a very hostile environment and you want her to stand up to her mother every time the woman uses male pronouns? This is a kid who has to go to her school counselor to get referrals for transgender-related issues. Seriously, this is why Jazz bugs the shit out of now. She is becoming so sanctimonious  -to her parents, her supposed friends (assuming they are real friends when the cameras aren't around), anyone basically, who does not speak in the same exact sentence constructs as she does on all things transgender. For someone who wants acceptance, she certainly seems unwilling to accept any other ways of talking about transgender issues.

About the only thing I really enjoyed this episode was meeting Lynn, and knowing that Noelle's parents support her fully! That was such a relief to know, so much so that I found Jazz's IG page, then from there found Noelle's feed and she has some lovely pix of her and her Dad. It was nice to see that because she is such a lovely human being and we didn't really know if her parents supported her at all since she rarely talks about it. I feel for Lynn though, man what a situation, to basically have to be something you're not until you're of legal age to do what you need to do to live your life. I hope she has strong friend support.

Oh, and Jeannette, while talking to Cousin Debbie is fine, it does not equate real, legit counseling. Girl, you need therapy really badly, so while you're berating Jazz to get therapy, get some yourself, before you suffocate your kid.

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(edited)
19 hours ago, orangeiguana said:

I do find Noelle and Shawn's (did I get the name right?) portraits poignant and relatable. I hope we meet some more of these kinds of warm TG people in future eps, and perhaps meet their families, too. 

If people got to know Noelle or Shawn really well like they do Jazz, they'd end up disliking them too. Always the way it goes with these shows. People idealize the friend because we don't know his/her faults yet, and pick apart and criticize the person who's actually being vulnerable and showing us her life. 

Edited by mangosplums
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1 hour ago, mangosplums said:
19 hours ago, orangeiguana said:

I do find Noelle and Shawn's (did I get the name right?) portraits poignant and relatable. I hope we meet some more of these kinds of warm TG people in future eps, and perhaps meet their families, too. 

If people got to know Noelle or Shawn really well like they do Jazz, they'd end up disliking them too. Always the way it goes with these shows. People idealize the friend because we don't know his/her faults yet, and pick apart and criticize the person who's actually being vulnerable and showing us her life. 

I think the difference is that Jazz's reality is so disconnected from what a lot of transgender teens go through and she's so sanctimonious about her viewpoint. In contrast, we have Mya, Noelle, Shawn, and Lynn presenting their stories. We've even seen Noelle call Jazz on not understanding what a lot of trans teens go through since it's not everyone who's allowed to transition so young. Yet, even then Jazz doesn't seem to understand how lucky she is to have a family which is so supportive of her. I think Jazz's friends have been vulnerable. They may not be the stars of the show, but we've seen them in uncomfortable situations. Remember when Noelle had electrolysis and talked about how her voice is deeper and it worries her about dating because she thought guys wouldn't be interested in her since she sounded like a guy. She's talked about not knowing about makeup or clothing. That's all vulnerable moments for any teenage girl.

What we see of Jazz's life has a lot of scripting to it. Even with that, we are seeing a lot of Jazz's apparent lack of understanding that she's a pretty lucky girl in a lot of ways and her absolute belief that it's her way or the highway all the time. Although it may only be editing that shows how often this behavior occurs, it's there enough to be picked up on by the cameras. I have a friend who's a lot like this in real life. It's exhausting to be around her. She spent one afternoon, knowing that I was flat broke, living with my parents who had to give me gas money, and out of work, complaining that her dad only gave her $10,000 for her birthday. Apparently, it was very unfair that she didn't get the $15,000 she expected. I've never been given that kind of money by my parents. (Hell, I don't think I've ever been given $100 by my parents.) She didn't understand that not everyone's parents had that kind of cash to just hand over. Jazz seems very similar. Jazz, I think, is very rarely told no. Even when she was little. When Jazz wanted to play soccer and the people in charge wanted her on a team that matched her birth certificate gender, her parents went to court over it. When Jazz wanted hormones, Jazz got them. Jazz didn't like the opinion of the doctor on her surgery, they went to see a second and third opinion. She still doesn't like the opinion so I'm willing to bet that we see another doctor visit and another until she finds someone who agrees with what she wants. Unfortunately, the camera is spotlighting some really unfortunate aspects of the Jennings' family.

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3 minutes ago, MegD said:

I think the difference is that Jazz's reality is so disconnected from what a lot of transgender teens go through and she's so sanctimonious about her viewpoint. In contrast, we have Mya, Noelle, Shawn, and Lynn presenting their stories. We've even seen Noelle call Jazz on not understanding what a lot of trans teens go through since it's not everyone who's allowed to transition so young. Yet, even then Jazz doesn't seem to understand how lucky she is to have a family which is so supportive of her. I think Jazz's friends have been vulnerable. They may not be the stars of the show, but we've seen them in uncomfortable situations. Remember when Noelle had electrolysis and talked about how her voice is deeper and it worries her about dating because she thought guys wouldn't be interested in her since she sounded like a guy. She's talked about not knowing about makeup or clothing. That's all vulnerable moments for any teenage girl.

What we see of Jazz's life has a lot of scripting to it. Even with that, we are seeing a lot of Jazz's apparent lack of understanding that she's a pretty lucky girl in a lot of ways and her absolute belief that it's her way or the highway all the time. Although it may only be editing that shows how often this behavior occurs, it's there enough to be picked up on by the cameras. I have a friend who's a lot like this in real life. It's exhausting to be around her. She spent one afternoon, knowing that I was flat broke, living with my parents who had to give me gas money, and out of work, complaining that her dad only gave her $10,000 for her birthday. Apparently, it was very unfair that she didn't get the $15,000 she expected. I've never been given that kind of money by my parents. (Hell, I don't think I've ever been given $100 by my parents.) She didn't understand that not everyone's parents had that kind of cash to just hand over. Jazz seems very similar. Jazz, I think, is very rarely told no. Even when she was little. When Jazz wanted to play soccer and the people in charge wanted her on a team that matched her birth certificate gender, her parents went to court over it. When Jazz wanted hormones, Jazz got them. Jazz didn't like the opinion of the doctor on her surgery, they went to see a second and third opinion. She still doesn't like the opinion so I'm willing to bet that we see another doctor visit and another until she finds someone who agrees with what she wants. Unfortunately, the camera is spotlighting some really unfortunate aspects of the Jennings' family.

Didn't mean to imply the other friends haven't been vulnerable at all, they have, but we haven't gotten to know every little detail about them like we pretty much have with Jazz. Everyone has flaws and ugly moments, and we simply haven't seen Noelle's, Mya's, Shawn's or Lynn's yet. All I'm saying is that if Noelle got a show of her own, her faults would probably start to show and everyone would end up disliking her and endlessly complaining about her. Because human-beings don't actually look that pretty when you get so up close. In general Jazz seems like a pretty cool individual to me. 

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(edited)

Yes, gingerella, succinct and true.  Thanks for putting my feelings into simple words. Jazz is so lucky to have aging grandparents support her. My parents who were amazing, supportive and kind people would not have been able to wrap their heads around a transgender grandchild. I hate her sense of entitlement about everything. When Jeanette talked about Jazz sitting at home after possible bottom  surgery, all I could think was she needs a job like the rest of us. Don't get me wrong,  I think Jazz as a voice of transgender youth is great, but she has had the advantage of money and a great social support system and lacks empathy in many situations. 

Edited by jacksgirl
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7 hours ago, Impatient said:

 Why are THESE questions not addressed on, of all things, the LEARNING channel?

True. I don't seem to be learning much on this channel, lol. The only thing I've learned is that a high protein/low carb diet is good for losing weight (courtesy of Dr. Now on my 600lb life), it's a bad idea to get involved with anybody requiring a 90 day fiance visa, and hair extensions are way out of my price range. Teehe.

I find Jazz and her interactions with daily life fascinating so I continue to watch. One of my friends is transgender (MTF) and I've learned more from him than this show.

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16 hours ago, Impatient said:

The guy said "I think you guys are all just looking for attention."   There is obviously a strong case to be made for that.  So hwy do they not ever address the possibility that this is not a real thing?  That is politically incorrect, I know, but it is a real possibility that is never ever addressed.  Even if not ALL transgender people are Munchhausen by proxy, (as has been speculated for Jazz and Jeanette) certainly some are.  Why is it that conversation so completely verboten?

Because it's insulting?

When a person tells me that they feel like a girl in a boy's body, who am I to say they don't? Just because I can't completely understand it, doesn't mean it isn't real. How about listening to people who feel different than us? And trying to understand instead of telling them what their "problem" is? Like, they're repressed homosexuals? I thought we had moved past that but obviously not.

Refusal to hear what they are saying is what leads to violence and hate. And that's as real as it gets. As for me I choose compassion.

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RE the Facebook Live call in thing, I was actually surprised there was only 1 negative caller. I assume a lot of this show is staged, as all "reality" shows are, but all but one call was very friendly, so I don't think that they were playing up the level of harassment or negativity in some disproportionate way to what would happen in "real life".

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(edited)
On 7/28/2017 at 0:14 AM, orangeiguana said:

I agree! I just don't see much of anyone in my ordinary life terribly bothered by the transgender experience -- who are a tiny proportion of the population. It's frankly a bit insulting to tolerant and accepting people of all descriptions to have everyone depicted as bullies. So much of the show revolves around these TG discussions that I wonder how it is affecting their lives 24/7. There seem to be a lot of either/or scenarios; I wish we could see more intelligent discussions of questions and concerns various people have, and how they approach solutions or changes of heart. I feel a bit hit over the head by "it's got to be Jazz's way or the highway" and hope the producers find some more middle-of-the-road scenes.

I do find Noelle and Shawn's (did I get the name right?) portraits poignant and relatable. I hope we meet some more of these kinds of warm TG people in future eps, and perhaps meet their families, too. 

I agree. I think they need thicker skin if they're going to be activists. They talk about all the "hate" they get, and then read that comment about how it wouldn't be legal to neuter a child. You know, I sort of see where that person is coming from! They don't have all the facts, because they haven't removed anything from jazz, so their opinion is an ignorant one, but it is an opinion. I think of "hate" as being like, "you're a disgusting t***** and I wish you'd die because you'll never be a woman, loser." I wish they could try to see where misinformed people are coming from so they can effectively respond. That would get them so much further than calling everyone "hateful" that just slightly disagrees with them. The person who had that opinion might change it if they had all the facts! I honestly don't know how they have gotten to this point with such thin skin. 

Edited by Christina87
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4 hours ago, Caracoa1 said:

I'm curious that as young adults would Jazz's siblings consider getting seriously involved and or marry a person who is transgender?

I don't know how anyone can answer that kind of question. Who knows what the future holds and what life will bring?

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6 hours ago, Caracoa1 said:

I'm curious that as young adults would Jazz's siblings consider getting seriously involved and or marry a person who is transgender?

While I think they are all open-minded enough to look beyond the exterior in any person they become involved with, I wonder how Jazz and Jeanette would react to that. Would they be happy for Jazz's sibling to have found someone or would they see it as horning in on Jazz's spotlight. To use another TV family as an example, Jeremy Roloff has said a few things that make me suspect that he's a little pissed that Zach dared to 1. have a kid first, 2. have a boy first, & 3. have a little person. It's pretty clear he fully expected that at least the first two were his thing and hoped for number 3. Given the investment of time, energy, and resources that seem wrapped up in Jazz being transgender, I think she and/or Jeanette might get just a little resentful if anyone else in the family was to consider anything a transgender relationship. It also is highly likely that another transgender person's experience may have been harder than Jazz's. It would have the potential to reflect a different light on Jazz's experiences, which they seem to present as the "standard" experience, despite showing other teens like Noelle, Maya, Shawn, and Lynn who've had a much rougher experience.

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SongbirdHollow said:
"When a person tells me that they feel like a girl in a boy's body, who am I to say they don't? Just because I can't completely understand it, doesn't mean it isn't real. How about listening to people who feel different than us? And trying to understand instead of telling them what their "problem" is? Like, they're repressed homosexuals? I thought we had moved past that but obviously not.

Refusal to hear what they are saying is what leads to violence and hate. And that's as real as it gets. As for me I choose compassion."

 

Asking the question and having the unbiased conversation is not insulting anyone NOR is it questioning their feelings.  I would never say to Jazz that she does not feel like a girl in a boy's body.  But I WOULD question her mother's assertion that her boy child is a girl in a boy's body at the age of 3.  That is not bias, and that is not prejudice.  It is common sense and this should not hurt people's feelings.  If a mother said "My child has a chromosomal abnormality", I would expect to explore that thoroughly with definitive tests and medical professionals and would examine the nature of that contention.  There was a documentary recently about a girl whose mother made that very claim, and who was able to con doctors and ruined her daughter's health and even the very essence of her life.   The daughter eventually snapped and killed her mother.   
Jeanette shopped for doctors when Jazz was 3, until she found one who supported her contention about Jazz's abnormality (i.e., girl in boy's body).  At this point, Jazz has been socialized and raised as a girl and I firmly believe she can happily go through her life as a female.  But I am not sure that is true because of a biological condition.  And maybe 13 years ago, we weren't at a place where transgender specialists would have been able to definitively identify that in a 3 year old, but they are closer to that now, and I think those discussions as a matter of medical policy ought to be able to withstand scientific debate.  We have just accepted the idea of being a girl in a boy's body or a boy in a girl's body but we have no idea what that really means.  I just do not agree that it is insulting or critical to have that discussion.  If anything, it should legitimize transgenderism in the minds of skeptics.   

Jazz is now having to face highly invasive surgery.  And her life will likely focus on transgender issues forever.  I think the Day of Remembrance, her participation in Pride Day, her Facebook Live conversation with other transgender teens-- all demonstrate Jazz's sense of connection to a larger community and it will be a home for her.  But what if Jeanette was wrong?  What if Jazz would have grown out of feeling she was a girl?  There are a number of peer-reviewed studies who suggest that 80% of children going through gender confusion resolve that confusion without treatment.   

I am not lacking in compassion.  I don't want there to be violence or hatred.  But I do see value in careful, controlled studies.  When HIV was first identified, it was callously dismissed as something only gay men got, and people ostracized these poor patients and refused to touch them or even get close to them.  Ryan White, a hemophiliac in Indiana was absolutely driven from his school by panicked parents who claimed he could transmit a lethal disease to their children.  It was a HUGE mess and people treated each other horribly.  And then?  Science actually did the controlled experiments.  demonstrated the inability of the HIV virus to survive outside the human body (so no air transmission), the inability of the virus to be transferred across the dermal barrier (can't get infected by touching people), the virus can only be spread by the transfer of bodily fluids and even then, with difficulty.  If scientists had not addressed the questions in a rigorous way, people would still be arguing for confinement camps....

It is totally legitimate to have the conversation.  

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On 7/26/2017 at 10:20 PM, woodscommaelle said:

Fuckin' cousin Debbie. This family needs to find professional help elsewhere. 

 

On 7/26/2017 at 10:20 PM, woodscommaelle said:

Fuckin' cousin Debbie. This family needs to find professional help elsewhere. 

Something strange about cousin Debbie. She's a transgender expert? According to what standards? Transgender people are less than 1% of Americas population. So even in Cousin Debbie's region how many people transitioning are actually in her area? If she's a real therapist she would have other patients besides Transgender. 

I watched the old Barbara Walters interview and the parents used fake first names. But some if the things they proclaimed were outrageous IMO. A two year old declaring their sexual orientation and usIng the words Penis and Vagina? I can understand that a baby boy potty training would be taught the word Penis but when would a two year old girl use the word Vagina? You wouldn't need to for potty training. You don't pee out of your vagina. A two year old girl wouldn't necessarily know she even has a vagina. A two year old boy with a penis would certainly not need to know the word vagina. Jazz just seemed so coached

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