S03.E05: Dating in the Dark

[MegD]

18 minutes ago, chickenella said:

How old is Noelle? Is she a few years older than Jazz? She strikes me as such. And I also thing she's just mellow, not depressed. I hope I'm right. But if she is depressed, I wonder if it might be an effect from the hormone therapy? She must be taking some sort of hormones, she's got breasts.

I have her pegged as slightly older as well. She seems a little more worldly, which may be because Jazz has been so sheltered and protected where Noelle has mentioned facing difficulties being transgender and transitioning post-puberty. I don't think she's doing hormone therapy though. I suspect that, given that she does tend to dress more conservatively with higher necklines than Jazz, she may be stuffing her bra like so many women of the itty bitty titty committee. It is easier to do so when you're not trying to expose cleavage. I think she's also learning how to dress her body now that she has transitioned and become comfortable in her own skin. I think that's part of why she's so much quieter and mellow than Jazz. It may have been protective to be quiet, mellow, and largely unnoticed as a child to avoid some of the bullying she experienced and she's still retained some of that personality now that she is able to express herself to the world. I think Jazz's personality is also so much bigger than her's that it makes Noelle look even quieter in contrast.

[Granny58]

9 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I don't know Noelle well enough to make that comment, but I don't think so. As someone with a naturally mellow/non reactive temperament, I have often been told I am "cold" or I don't care or I'm pretending to be happy.....I'm not someone that wears their emotion on their sleeve or goes up and down easily, but I am not depressed or anything of that sort. Depression is a serious concern with a lot of LGBT youth and I don't want to make light of it, but I don't see Noelle as depressed because of that. Maybe she's like me and is just more of a mellow person?

I hope so.  

[TwirlyGirly]

20 hours ago, mangosplums said:

<snip> Yeah, when Noelle was asking how she'd be accepted at a sorority or a frat party and then said she wanted to be accepted by a sorority because that would make her feel she was fully a girl... that made me sad. That is just not realistic for Noelle. The type of people in a Florida college frat environment are the not types of people Noelle should be trying to become a part of. She will never be accepted by them, it's futile. Noelle needs to go to a different kind of liberal arts college and become friends with a friend group that is less stereotypical and more diverse and open-minded than the people Jazz's brothers are friends with. <snip>

 

This is not necessarily true.

Several sororities have had official policies on acceptance of transgender members for years. For further reading, you can browse http://www.greekchat.com/

GreekChat does not require registration to read forum posts.

To find all the topics/posts relating to transgender membership, use the search function (top left-hand corner of home page) and enter "transgender". This will take you to the main search page which requires completing a image verification to perform the search.

Many current active sorority members as well as alumni discuss accepting transgender members into their chapters, and a lot of the posts are 3-4 years old. So, it's not as much as a "no-go" as you may think; this issue has been around for awhile and many sororities are embracing trans women.

What I find do interesting is how thinking about transgender women as members of sororities has evolved over time - you can definitely see this when reading the topics/posts from oldest to most recent.

While granted it may be more difficult for Noelle, Jazz, and other transgender women to be admitted to a sorority, bear in mind the culture of a particular sorority can vary widely by chapter.

My daughter is a college student, and has been disabled since birth. She uses a manual wheelchair full-time for mobility. When she first expressed interest in joining the Greek system in her freshman year, I was a bit surprised (I had a lot of misconceptions about sororities and had bought into the "sorority girl" stereotype completely, and my daughter definitely does not fit the stereotype, so I never thought she'd be interested). Needless to say, I was convinced she would not get any bids, due to her disability (of course, I did not express that to her that way - we did discuss it and she was aware having a disability might be a barrier to her receiving a bid at some sororities).

However, she DID receive a bid and was initiated into Alpha Delta Pi as a freshman, and now with two years as an active member (and having held several positions within the chapter), she absolutely loves the sorority life!

[Stephanie1216]

I watched the Jazz marathon and just saw the episode where Jazz says she hasn't experienced an Orgasm. They say low libido due to the hormones etc. 

Question: before her bottom surgery happens, is it normal procedure for the person to freeze his/her sperm? Wouldn't Jazz do that in case she wants to have her on biological kids one day? She could have a surrogate with her sperm etc. I guess there are many ways to have a baby now. But I guess my second question is, if she needs her sperm frozen for whatever reason before bottom surgery, wouldn't she need to ejaculate that sperm? Wouldn't that give her an orgasm? 

Is it just me but does it seem sad she hasn't had an orgasm? I know she is young but with male parts I thought it was easier for boys to experience that? I know about the hormones and identity confusion etc. but she still has a penis how does she totally ignore it?

Edited July 22, 2017 by Stephanie1216

[ClareWalks]

15 minutes ago, Stephanie1216 said:

Question: before her bottom surgery happens, is it normal procedure for the person to freeze his/her sperm? Wouldn't Jazz do that in case she wants to have her on biological kids one day?

Boys start producing sperm at puberty, so with blocking the onset of puberty I don't think Jazz has any sperm to freeze.

[rwlevin]

Jazz can't have biological kids. She never went through male puberty, ergo no sperm. Interestingly enough, once MTF transgender people start female hormones, they can no longer have children, regardless of their anatomy, while those who are FTM just have to stop testosterone and providing they still have a uterus and ovaries, can still have natural children.

[Scarlett45]

13 minutes ago, Stephanie1216 said:

I watched the Jazz marathon and just saw the episode where Jazz says she hasn't experienced an Orgasm. They say low libido due to the hormones etc. 

Question: before her bottom surgery happens, is it normal procedure for the person to freeze his/her sperm? Wouldn't Jazz do that in case she wants to have her on biological kids one day? She could have a surrogate with her sperm etc. I guess there are many ways to have a baby now. But I guess my second question is, if she needs her sperm frozen for whatever reason before bottom surgery, wouldn't she need to ejaculate that sperm? Wouldn't that give her an orgasm? 

Is it just me but does it seem sad she hasn't had an orgasm? I know she is young but with male parts I thought it was easier for boys to experience that? I know about the hormones and identity confusion etc. but she still has a penis how does she totally ignore it?

Jazz isn't able to freeze her sperm because she never went through male puberty to develop sperm in the first place. Many people who transition later in life do freeze their gametes (if they have the financial means and want biological kids). 

 

Also with having an orgasm. Pre-pubescent children sometimes masturbate but I think it's a different type of response once the hormones kick in. As a cis- woman I didn't really feel urges to masturbate until I was 12-13 years old. 

 

Yes and word to never having an orgasm. I know many cis-women don't start having them until they are older but yeah I agree. 

[Stephanie1216]

Wow

thanks for all the responses I didn't know that Jazzs body didn't produce sperm. So because of the hormones she has been given to stop male puberty it has made her sterile forever? Temporarily? 

When her parents and doctors decided to give her those hormones they knew it would make her sterile, I had no idea. That puts a different twist on the decisions they made for her in my mind. Made it even more serious. Seeing the doctor visits this morning, they seemed surprised themselves and how undeveloped her gentitalia is and that is factoring into her bottom surgery and now factoring in no orgasm experience, and no bio kids the decisions these adults have made for her are very serious. I just repeated myself sorry.

what I remember from biology sperm is made about every three months in a man? Women are born with all the eggs they will ever have. If Jazz went off the hormones would her Penis develop better for her surgery? Would her libido increase? Would her sperm start production?

Its getting too complicated for me but I'm trying to understand

[Impatient]

forever

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, Stephanie1216 said:

Wow

thanks for all the responses I didn't know that Jazzs body didn't produce sperm. So because of the hormones she has been given to stop male puberty it has made her sterile forever? Temporarily? 

When her parents and doctors decided to give her those hormones they knew it would make her sterile, I had no idea. That puts a different twist on the decisions they made for her in my mind. Made it even more serious. Seeing the doctor visits this morning, they seemed surprised themselves and how undeveloped her gentitalia is and that is factoring into her bottom surgery and now factoring in no orgasm experience, and no bio kids the decisions these adults have made for her are very serious. I just repeated myself sorry.

what I remember from biology sperm is made about every three months in a man? Women are born with all the eggs they will ever have. If Jazz went off the hormones would her Penis develop better for her surgery? Would her libido increase? Would her sperm start production?

 

This is a pretty complicated situation and not one where there are thousands of others who've  gone down this road so we have a definitive answer.  Most likely, based on boys who've been born with low testosterone levels, etc and who weren't diagnosed until well after natural puberty should have occurred; If the testosterone blockers were removed and Jazz had normal teen male testosterone levels, she would probably develop facial, chest and axillary hair, her voice would deepen, she might get acne, her genitalia would grow larger and more mature, her libido would probably increase and she would have spontaneous erections.  However, chances are, she would never produce viable sperm.  At least, that is the case in other genetic males who miss the 'window' for puberty.

Edited July 22, 2017 by doodlebug

[Bellalisa]

2 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

Boys start producing sperm at puberty, so with blocking the onset of puberty I don't think Jazz has any sperm to freeze.

Correct.  It's sad, This should also alleviate any worries about her being a danger for raping women in the bathroom.  It's the same as not letting little boys in the ladies room.  She can't ejaculate. 

 

The whole thing is sad. I 100% believe that something was switched in Jazz's brain during in-utero.  Whatever it is that gives us the concept of our gender. Maybe they can study her brain more closely and learn about it.  To people who think her mother pushed her into it, the mom already had 3 kids: one girl and 2 twin boys. The new baby should have identified with the 2 boys who were closer in age. I'm sure the house was filled with boy toys and boy clothes. Why did this baby steal the bathing suit from the much older sister?  Why did this baby want to copy the sister and not her 2 brothers? Why would the mother want this big problem? It would have been so much easier if Jazz liked being a boy, for Jazz and for everyone else. But she could not. It's so very interesting that it happened to this particular family and to their 4th child. No one would wish this on themselves! 

[MegD]

2 hours ago, Bellalisa said:

To people who think her mother pushed her into it, the mom already had 3 kids: one girl and 2 twin boys. The new baby should have identified with the 2 boys who were closer in age. I'm sure the house was filled with boy toys and boy clothes. Why did this baby steal the bathing suit from the much older sister?  Why did this baby want to copy the sister and not her 2 brothers? Why would the mother want this big problem? It would have been so much easier if Jazz liked being a boy, for Jazz and for everyone else. But she could not. It's so very interesting that it happened to this particular family and to their 4th child. No one would wish this on themselves! 

Just to play devil's advocate, it is possible that because the boys were twins, she may not have identified with them or been able to penetrate their world as easily as she did with Ari. It is entirely possible that since they were twins, they may have not willingly added another kid into the mix. She may have turned to Ari because, depending on Ari's age, Ari may have wanted to help with the baby and been a willing playmate when the boys pushed her away because they had each other. I know in watching several sets of twin over the years, they frequently have their own language and interactions that keep their siblings away. From a purely behavioral standpoint, I can see a younger sibling identifying with an older sibling, even if there are intervening other siblings between the sibling pair. This is not to say that it happened in this case, but I can understand the closeness between siblings separated by a number of years and other siblings.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Folks,

A reminder, this forum is about the I Am Jazz TV show.  Feel free to discuss things as they relate to Jazz and other persons who appear on the show.  Please do not speculate as to how other transgender persons behave or open up hypothetical situations that do not relate to Jazz, her family or her friends.  We are not here to debate transgenderism.  We are here to snark on a TV show.  So let's stick to talking about Jazz, her Jazzisms and her general Jazziness.

Thanks, and happy posting!

[Fostersmom]

On 7/21/2017 at 10:12 AM, mangosplums said:

They seem to be doing fine. I don't see them ~sacrificing~ much for Jazz. They are off living their exciting college lives and learning to become independent people. Not sure kids of that age really want much attention from their parents anyway. 

I'm not sure they got the real attention they deserved over the last decade or so though. One of the twins basically called Jeanette out for it last season. I've been on to Jeanette since the show started, she's all about the attention Jazz brings her. And I've had a nagging sense things haven't been all rosy with Ari for a while. They've made mention of Ari's "issues" a few times, never explaining them, just mentioning it. 

On 7/21/2017 at 11:01 AM, brilliantbreakfast said:

I have friends who are like Jeannette -- totally involved with their kids, wanting all leisure time to be family time, unable to let go and allow their kids to be independent adults.  These moms choose their kids' prom outfits, do their resumes and cover letters, apply for jobs for them, try to get their adult children into the companies they work for, plan their weddings right down to the table decorations, approve the wedding dresses and tuxes, demand that all vacations be family vacations.  They chalk it up to "close families", and I come from a family that was horribly dysfunctional (our mother didn't even like my sister or me) so maybe my view is warped.  Add to the helicopter mom-ing the very understandable desire to protect a child who is "different" and you get Jeannette.  I don't see her as being all THAT much different from the helicopter moms I know.  I do wish, though, that she would have enough boundaries to understand Jazz for what she is -- a kid that needs some personal space to recharge her social jets rather than a social butterfly.  Jeannette is not the first mom to want her kid to be her "mini-me", but Jazz has enough pressures already.

I had one friend who grew up like the and one employee who was raising her kids like this. Shocking to no one but the moms, both my friend and my employee's daughter both went buck wild once they hit college. My friend drank like a fish, almost lost her scholarship, and later did some serious drugs, but did finish school and grow up. The employee's daughter quickly started sleeping with a much older man, dropped out, and got pregnant. 

On 7/21/2017 at 11:35 AM, Twopper said:

I found myself focused more on Noelle than Jazz in this episode.  I don't think Noelle is stupid, and I am sure she knows if life is difficult for her in high school that it will be somewhat similar in college. The advantage in college ( especially a very large university) is that there will likely be more organizations where she will fit in.   I don't know how scripted the meeting with the boys was, but the guy was right that she will have a more difficult time fitting in than most girls.  He knows it, and Noelle knew it as well.  Was Noelle the person having electrolysis ( I missed that episode)?  I think she could also use some voice training  and a trip to a make-up artist who can help her with make-up suggestions that would draw attention away from her more masculine features.   And back to Jazz---- the hormones seem to have given her breasts and hips, but there is still something about her movements that seems a bit male to me, and I am not sure if I am really seeing that or if it is because I know she is MTF.   Maybe an episode where they go to an old fashioned charm school where they learn manners, how to sit and walk like a lady? 

I hope Noelle finds her way in a nice small liberal arts school. I think that would be a much better match than a large state school given her personality. Large schools would have more organizations, but I could see it being really overwhelming and just too much for Noelle. Noelle hasn't seemed to really gain confidence or 100% comfort in her female body yet, as I would image is completely normal. I don't necessarily think she needs to wear more make up unless she wants to, and while she thinks her voice is too masculine, it doesn't sound too deep to me, I do think she could soften her features with some bangs and just improving her posture a bit, she looks a little slouchy to me. She's still working on developing her personal style which is hard enough when you are a teen, let along one relatively new (in the scheme of her life) to wearing feminine clothing. 

Edited July 23, 2017 by Fostersmom
random word that made zero sense

[ClareWalks]

Noelle would crush it at a place like Oberlin. That is my alma mater and although it is not a perfect place (don't get me started, haha), I knew several transgender women who were totally accepted, nobody even looked twice.

[Muffyn]

I'm glad that they are showing more of Noelle.  Her experiences seem more in line with transgender women that I know.  Jazz is in such a different position with total family support, a TV show bringing in money and a family that is well off enough that, when they discuss money issues, it seems more an inconvenience than a real issue.  If Jazz wants surgery, she still has to qualify like anyone else (and real, not let's talk to your cousin on camera, therapy would be helpful given many things in her world),  but she knows her parents can afford it.   

I wish the show would go back to showing some more normal interactions.  Now every conversations seems to be vaginoplasty.  Logically I know Jazz has more to talk about than her genitalia.  If she really was talking vaginas day in and day out, she needs a lot of therapy.  :-)  Also, the production prompting of conversations seems so much more obvious now.  They are forgetting to fill with impromptu scenes. 

Last year I marched in SF Pride as part of the Pulse Nightclub shooting memorial contingent.  A friend's cousin had been injured in the shooting.  I carried a photo of his friend who had died.  Jazz being on a float with a survivor made no sense to me.  She felt shoehorned in. 

[Caracoa1]

The Jennings family appears to be very well off.  With family Dynamics being as they are; I can't help but wonder how Ari, Griffen and Sander will feel as they grow into adulthood and realize how much of the family fortune was spent on Jazz.  This is in no way a slam against Jazz... I do wish a safe and happy life for her. Jazz does have a rough road ahead of her but let's be honest....how she is going to afford all the surgeries, blockers, meds and therapies is not one of them.

[SunnyBeBe]

It appears to me that all of the kids have received or are receiving much family support. in the form of college and living expenses. Covering that for 3 children, so close in age, must be quite expensive for Jazz's parents.  To me, growing up with all of your needs met, then having college and living expenses paid for for 4 years....that's awesome.  I had to work and put myself through.  Not everyone gets all of that.  So, even if a lot if spent on Jazz, I can't see them hurting much from lack or resources. 

[Scarlett45]

37 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

It appears to me that all of the kids have received or are receiving much family support. in the form of college and living expenses. Covering that for 3 children, so close in age, must be quite expensive for Jazz's parents.  To me, growing up with all of your needs met, then having college and living expenses paid for for 4 years....that's awesome.  I had to work and put myself through.  Not everyone gets all of that.  So, even if a lot if spent on Jazz, I can't see them hurting much from lack or resources. 

Yes so much this. I am a Sib (adult sibling of someone with a disability) so while it's different with Jazz' siblings there are similarities. My Mom had to spend and continues to spend a great deal of money on my sisters care, but I grew up in a similar lifestyle to Jazz (socio-economically), my parents paid for my college education. Whatever "issues" I have about being a Sib aren't related to where the dollars were spent. 

[stillhere1900]

On 7/19/2017 at 9:09 PM, surveyandprotect1 said:

I'm not sure if this episode had enough of a storyline hook to keep viewers interested.

No Jack and Jacky. Ari was on camera but didn't talk. Skylar was in one long scene but didn't talk. The brothers were OK. I really thought they would have a couch interview/talking heads with Ari in relation to the bottom surgery scene, but instead they used the brothers? Noelle was great and got a lot of air time.

From what I know the Dating in the Dark scene was shot just for this episode. I know where the scene took place and I suspect that the boy Jazz gets asked out on a date on next week's episode was cast by production for this role.

I came here to ask about "Dating In The Dark"

Seems to me it was a setup for the show itself. The entire scene looked pretty fake to me, esp the guy who didn't have a problem with "Noelle's" voice or looks. they must have done a casting call for that scene because if you're a straight male looking to date and you sit down across from someone  int he dark and hear a male voice, you probably would be taken aback

[stillhere1900]

On 7/20/2017 at 5:39 AM, Caracoa1 said:

I believe that Jazz is relieved her parents allowed her to take blockers and suppress male puberty even if with its consequences.  She easily passes as female without question.  

I agree 100 percent!!!!!  Clearly Noelle didn't

[Impatient]

Jazz is currently 16.  There is a bumpy road ahead.

 

when i was 13, i begged my parents for a nose job and they thought i was nuts.  Still wish i had gotten one.  But at some point, Jazz will by in physical pain from the surgery and/or emotional pain, without the mature tools required to deal with either.  And then?  I am not so sure she'll be grateful to her parents for the choices they made.

 

i personally would like to see a real conversation, deep and meaningful between Jazz and Ari.  

[mangosplums]

12 hours ago, stillhere1900 said:

I came here to ask about "Dating In The Dark"

Seems to me it was a setup for the show itself. The entire scene looked pretty fake to me, esp the guy who didn't have a problem with "Noelle's" voice or looks. they must have done a casting call for that scene because if you're a straight male looking to date and you sit down across from someone  int he dark and hear a male voice, you probably would be taken aback

So very set-up by production. I feel part of the reason that dating is being pushed on Jazz is to make the show more interesting, provide material. Without dating woes, all you really have to put in the show is bottom surgery stuff, there's nothing else going on in Jazz's life. They shouldn't be pushing Jazz into dating, but without it, what else is there to put in?

 

10 hours ago, Impatient said:

Jazz is currently 16.  There is a bumpy road ahead.

 

when i was 13, i begged my parents for a nose job and they thought i was nuts.  Still wish i had gotten one.  But at some point, Jazz will by in physical pain from the surgery and/or emotional pain, without the mature tools required to deal with either.  And then?  I am not so sure she'll be grateful to her parents for the choices they made.

I don't think Jazz is ever going to blame her parents for any of this stuff because it's all her own decision. She wants to be a girl, she wants bottom surgery, she wants to take hormones. Though she is young, she's very strong-willed, and she is choosing to do this stuff herself.  If she ends up regretting it, she'll regret it as her own mistakes. 

[Impatient]

Well Mangoplums, it is her decision now.  They started raising her as a girl at 3.  Hormonelocking at 10 (11,12?  Don't remember.  Estrogen at 12  or 13?  

 

If Jazz ever gets to a point of being really unhappy, really disgusted, i think that could all turn very dark, in terms of family dynamics.  I think it's one of the reasons Greg said she should wait till she is 18 for the bottom surgery.  He said at the time, it was important for her to be legally of age.  I think he might be a little worried too.....

[Caracoa1]

If Jazz went off her blockers and estrogen; how long would it be before she experiences male puberty?  Will she have to be on estrogen for life?

[ClareWalks]

31 minutes ago, Caracoa1 said:

If Jazz went off her blockers and estrogen; how long would it be before she experiences male puberty?  Will she have to be on estrogen for life?

I think (and might be wrong, I am not super informed) once you remove the testicles, the production of any testosterone would either cease completely or drop to female levels. I'm not sure what that means for transwomen who never have bottom surgery, though, they might need to stay on estrogen.

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, Caracoa1 said:

If Jazz went off her blockers and estrogen; how long would it be before she experiences male puberty?  Will she have to be on estrogen for life?

As long as she still has testicles, I'd expect her to start noticing changes within a couple months. Remember that puberty is ongoing over months and years.   She'd experience it gradually as would any other male.

[retired watcher]

I think dating in the dark is ridiculous for a 16 year old. Dating at this age should be organic. You meet someone and want to spend more time with them. Stop all this dating nonsense. Some people never date in high school. It shouldn't be forced. And her mom needs to stop putting pressure on her to date.

[Granny58]

So I'm a menopausal woman and notice what decreased estrogen has/is doing to me...particularly whiskers!!!  Do transgender women take estrogen until the end or do they taper that off to mimic menopause?

[surveyandprotect1]

Watching back the bonus scene episode - they had a scene with the same guy that picked Jazz talking to Noelle. This leads me even more to believe that he was cast for the role. Watch the scene and see what you think.

[possibilities]

RE Jazz and orgasms and erections, I remember when she had surgery and woke up groggy from the anesthesia and said she had a boner. I am a cis female and a lesbian, so not a penis expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't think it's necessarily true that she is incapable of having an orgasm, and I am also suspicious of anything she said about that issue on camera and in front of her parents. 

I would think that depression and social anxiety and camera presence and fear of rejection due to being trans are more likely causes of Jazz's reluctance to date. Other trans kids we've seen on the show have seemed to be excited about dating and in possession of libido, so I don't think we can generalize about trans kids in general, or the effects of hormones or blockers, just from Jazz's experience.

This is the danger of a show that focuses on just one person, I guess. It's giving us a look at one person but if we got to know lots of others, we'd have more of a sense of what is particular to the individual vs the entire population.

Do we know how old Noelle is? I think bringing her into the show has been a good thing, and I wonder how they decided to cast her. It seems like they just recruited her for this purpose, not that she was someone who was in Jazz's life already, outside the show.

[TwirlyGirly]

12 minutes ago, possibilities said:

RE Jazz and orgasms and erections, I remember when she had surgery and woke up groggy from the anesthesia and said she had a boner. I am a cis female and a lesbian, so not a penis expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't think it's necessarily true that she is incapable of having an orgasm, and I am also suspicious of anything she said about that issue on camera and in front of her parents. 

<snip>

I found this:

Are Erections Necessary for Orgasms or Ejaculations?

Erection, ejaculation, and orgasm are related, but not mutually necessary. Any one event may take place independently of the other two. So then, erections are not necessary for male orgasm or ejaculation, and male orgasm doesn’t require ejaculation. In this same way, female orgasms, secretion (lubrication), ejaculation, and clitoral erection are not mutually necessary either. #HealthScience.[1][2][3][4

http://factmyth.com/factoids/erections-are-necessary-or-orgasms-or-ejaculation/

So, the way I'm interpreting this is the ability to have an erection does not necessarily indicate the ability to orgasm. Jazz may very well be able to have erections, but not orgasms.

[orangeiguana]

This has been a fascinating discussion about what "dating" means -- for transgender and other people, all people. Scenes on the show have suggested that Jazz hasn't explored sexuality yet, and given the age, that is understandable for anyone. When I was Jazz's age, "dating" meant you were expected to have sex by the third date, and usually by the first (this was the pre-AIDS, post-PILL era). It's actually refreshing and lovely to see young people interacting without being expected to jump in the sack. I have a young relative who is transgender and still a virgin, yet in a committed relationship. My person (sorry, just can't do the pronouns)  is in college and it's kind of nice to know there is companionship, love, yet no one is getting preggers or contracting a disease but enjoying the positive parts of a good relationship! When I was my relative's age, I met someone I really, really liked, but after waiting seven dates he dumped me as I hadn't jumped into bed with him. Which was because it wasn't casual to me. So this may be a very positive development of TG partnerships! Wish I'd had that.