S18.E08: Week 8

[Woodrose]

ALM brought DWTS to its lowest ratings all season.  Some of the decline may be permanent, if some disgusted people have turned the show off for good. Maybe they saw The Voice for the first time and liked it.

 

I won't be at all surprised if the next episode of DanceMoms has the highest ratings ever.  Still many less viewers than DWTS, of course, since its on a little cable network, but enough to make them cheer.

 

Most people don't like bullies, but some do enjoy watching bullies in action.  It's why Rush Limbaugh and other shock jocks have an audience -- a certain percentage of people think bullies are entertaining.  Some number of DWTS viewers will probably check out DanceMoms for the first time and become fans as a result of her stint on DWTS, hard as it is for me to understand.

 

Casting that bully cow as a guest judge on DWTS is without question the Stoopidest move I've ever seen TPTB make.  It may well end up permanently hurting DWTS while helping the ratings of DanceMoms.

 

I truly wonder if that asinine stunt was Conrad Green sending ABC and DWTS cast/viewers the bird as he walks out the door.

[Joystickenvy]

This is a cute comment from James:

Interesting comment. I thought both James/Amy and Charlie/Candace looked much more relaxed when dancing with each other than with their pros.

[Woodrose]

Rant, continued:

 

"Judge" Abby criticizes Meryl. Maks calmly responds, "I really don't care for anything that she has to say."   Dimwit DanceMoms:  Laugh and smile and clap.

 

Maksim Chmerkovskiy, very successful pro competitive dancer, former #7 Latin dancer in the world, co-owner/lead teacher of a string of successful dance studios, coach of world-class competitive dancers, flatly states that their daughter's dance coach is not worth listening to, and they clap?

 

They don't even have enough sense to be ashamed and embarrassed that they are sending their children to a 'dance coach' who is harshly, publicly scorned by genuine world class professional dancers and teachers.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Woodrose

[fembotz]

TY to the people who posted the Facebook numbers and scoring percentages!

 

 

All we know is that Charlie made it through the elimination last week and that's all.  He could have had one more vote than necessary to stay in over Danica.

 

I was relieved Charlie was immediately declared safe, and for all I know it was the producers trying to be nice to him and help him have two good performances. But if some of the online predictors/indicators are correct, he should have been in the Bottom 3, and the fact that he was immediately declared safe probably lulled his fanbase into a false sense of security. (Like me. I gave all my votes to Meryl because I was worried about how far behind she was, but now I'm sorry I didn't split them or maybe even give them all to Charlie looking at the numbers.) Whereas James was the last to be declared safe so his fans are probably more motivated to vote, and it does seem like it will come down to Charlie vs. James for the last spot in the finale.

 

I have a bad feeling we will get a James, Charlie, and Meryl Bottom 3 next week with James being the first to be called safe and the drama of knowing one of the ice dancing partners will be eliminated, and it will of course be Charlie. I hope I'm wrong, though, and James is the one leaving. Of all the contestants, he seems to be the one whose social media numbers are most likely to be skewed because a lot of his fans are def not watching and probably not voting either, a'la Cody Simpson. 

Edited May 7, 2014 by fembotz

[Hybiscus]

No.  The people "in jeopardy" consist of the person going home, and then two other people of the producers' choosing. They even give a disclaimer that "you are not necessarily in the bottom".  All we know is that Charlie made it through the elimination last week and that's all.  He could have had one more vote than necessary to stay in over Danica.

Understood.  I did give a disclaimer that the bottom 3 might not be the lowest cores.  I've only heard them say the last 2 standing may "not necessarily be the bottom 2."  I haven't heard that said of the bottom 3, but that doesn't mean it isn't so. Wait, there's too many negatives in that sentence.  What I mean is that even though I haven't heard "you 3 in jeopardy are not necessarily the bottom 3," it could in fact be true that the 3 in jeopardy aren't the bottom 3.  I guess that's a long way of saying, "Yep, you're right."  :-)

 

If you disregard Facebook or other social media clues - that's all they are is clues - simple math can't tell you that Meryl is behind in votes.  She's at the bottom, so she needs a lot of votes, but that doesn't mean she doesn't have them.

I didn't say that Meryl was behind in votes.  There's no way any of us could know that.  What I said is that she needs more votes than anyone else, and it's by a (relatively) high margin.

 

Here are the results after the "dance duel" (once again the first number is with Danica's points, the number is parentheses is without them):

 

Amy: 17.63 (20.74)

Charlie: 17.41 (20.74)

James: 16.74 (19.95)

Candace: 16.52 (19.67)

Meryl: 15.63 (19.15)

Alapaki, your first set of numbers agree with mine, but I came up with a different set of numbers for percentages with Danica's scores.  Mine show Meryl is a little over 1% behind Candace, while all the other differences are less than 1%, most being about .25%.  That's why I said she's "far behind," because the separation between Meryl and Candace is greater than any of the other separations.

 

Please don't take any of this to mean that I want Meryl gone.  I do NOT.  In fact, even though I'm primarily a Charlie fan, I'd be happy seeing Meryl and Maks win..  I do think they're a popular team, whether because of possible romance or just fantastic dancing, and believe they'll pull through. 

I was relieved Charlie was immediately declared safe, and for all I know it was the producers trying to be nice to him and help him have two good performances. But if some of the online predictors/indicators are correct, he should have been in the Bottom 3, and the fact that he was immediately declared safe probably lulled his fanbase into a false sense of security. (Like me. I gave all my votes to Meryl because I was worried about how far behind she was, but now I'm sorry I didn't split them or maybe even give them all to Charlie looking at the numbers.)

 

Take heart, fembotz.  I did just the opposite.  I was so scared for Charlie last week, even though he was declared safe, I gave all my votes to him.  Then, when I realized Meryl's numbers weren't so good, I was sorry I hadn't saved some for her.

[Flick]

Interesting comment. I thought both James/Amy and Charlie/Candace looked much more relaxed when dancing with each other than with their pros.

I noticed that as well, particularly in regards to Charlie. I was wondering if it was a combination of it being something he's incredibly comfortable/confident with and that it felt like he had something he could contribute. From the rehearsal footage, it appeared that Charlie was able to really take on the role of a partner and instructor in regards to the lifts (which of course makes sense) rather than that of the student. When it comes to lifts, Charlie has more than enough experience to know what needs to happen and I wonder if that confidence translated across the dance as a whole. I think that in general contemporary is the most comfortable for Charlie and it is in part because it does use his musicality, but maybe it's also because he feels like he has applicable knowledge to the dance and that sets him more at ease with it.

[Uke]

... The article also unfortunately makes this questionable statement:

 

One of the comments below the article asks for a list of the witch's students who have 'conquered Broadway.'  I've seen this question elsewhere, too -- exactly who are the successful dancers she's trained?  No one seems able to name them, so it's clear they don't exist.  The person who wrote the article should not have repeated the bully's fairy tale without fact checking.

 

I actually went over to the Dance Moms forum on this website and asked about ALM's students' success in becoming professional dancers (in their media thread).  They referred me to ALM's website which has a page for the successes of her students.  I went there - it was a pretty thin list (for what, 20+ years of teaching?).

 

I only skimmed through and didn't research any further but from what ALM lists on her own site, a handful of students worked on a Broadway Christmas show (it looked like they were all on the same show), a few (3 or 4, not counting carefully) have worked on Smash/backup dancers on tv or toured with pop stars and/or their music videos or other Broadway shows. But the vast majority of those listed are working on cruise ships, Disney venues, Busch Gardens and the like. The only name that was vaguely recognizable was Taylor Ackerman-not sure where I recognize her name from.

 

It was pointed out to me that ALM may have recruited some of these former students for her competition teams and not actually trained them. Also much (most?) of the actual off-camera training is by her studio teachers.

 

Anyway, the whole discussion is here:

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/545-dance-moms-in-the-media/#entry62866

You can google to find ALM's website. "Illustrious Alumni" is under the "News" tab.

[Alapaki]

I have a bad feeling we will get a James, Charlie, and Meryl Bottom 3 next week with James being the first to be called safe and the drama of knowing one of the ice dancing partners will be eliminated, and it will of course be Charlie. I hope I'm wrong, though, and James is the one leaving.

 

 

I agree re: your theory about James' social media presence not necessarily being reflected in his votes.  If if were to be knollish, and assume that TPTB want a Meryl vs. Charlie F2 (with the mirrorball having been promised to Maks as the "reward" for coming back this season), then they're going to need someone at F3 who is least likely to knock either of them out (either that or gin up another "extra" dance that gives the Judges the chance to basically singlehandedly decide who goes out at F3).  

 

If James' votes are not that strong, that might explain them trying to goose his voter-base into carrying him into F4 and F3.

 

Alapaki, your first set of numbers agree with mine, but I came up with a different set of numbers for percentages with Danica's scores.  Mine show Meryl is a little over 1% behind Candace, while all the other differences are less than 1%, most being about .25%.

 

 

Probably a rounding-up vs. rounding down of decimal places issue.  Either way, I'd really love to know if these stars' voter-scores are as relatively close as their percentage-adjusted Judges' scores.

 

I truly wonder if that asinine stunt was Conrad Green sending ABC and DWTS cast/viewers the bird as he walks out the door.

 

 

Well, if American Idol is any indication, the next chapter in the "Pants-Shitting Over Ratings" handbook, right after "completely screw with the format" is "change the judges".  I'm firmly convinced that the whole guest-judge gimmick this season has been designed to both get the audience used to new faces behind the Judges' Table and audition potential replacements (maybe not all of the guests, but at least some of them).  I wouldn't doubt for a second that TPTB for some reason thought ALM would make a good replacement judge.  Maybe they think they need a "Simon Cowell" judge who's edgier than Len.  Who knows.  I'm just glad she crashed and burned so epically.  Also, I don't think having her as a Judge would help them in recruiting "stars".  Why do legitimate stars (or even the has-beens they fill out the cast with) want to suffer that asshole's bullshit week in and week out?

It was pointed out to me that ALM may have recruited some of these former students for her competition teams and not actually trained them. Also much (most?) of the actual off-camera training is by her studio teachers.

 

 

I don't want to take the thread off-topic, but it's my understanding that ALM basically inherited the Dance School from her mother after she basically failed at life.  And like most other people who get their careers that way, she has neither the experience, credentials or any other bona fides to sit in judgment of dancers of the caliber of the pros on this show.  That may be part of what drives the antipathy towards her from the pros (in addition to the child abuse she commits on that wretched show).

[fembotz]

They must really not give a fudgemonkey about their professionals if they were auditioning Abby Lee for a permanent judge's spot. Their contempt for her was clear, and it's part of the reason all her bad jokes went over like lead balloons. The professionals were not going to flirt back with her or bounce back her attempts at banter.

 

I do think they will replace the judges soon, though, and if they do I hope they keep Tom for SOME continuity at least. His contract is up next spring. 

[Toonces464]

Haven't seen this mentioned at all, so wondering if I just imagined it but when I went back to see what happened in the backstage interview thing with Maks and his comment about Abby, did anyone else hear Erin call Maks "Maksie" after he said he didn't care about anything Abby had to say? I swear I heard that and I thought the way she said it was with the affection of someone who knows him on a personal level (obviously) and could tell he was going in his pissed off/angry place. 

 

Yes, I heard it too. You can also see her reach around behind Meryl and rub his back after they got their scores.

[Uke]

I don't want to take the thread off-topic, but it's my understanding that ALM basically inherited the Dance School from her mother after she basically failed at life.  And like most other people who get their careers that way, she has neither the experience, credentials or any other bona fides to sit in judgment of dancers of the caliber of the pros on this show.  That may be part of what drives the antipathy towards her from the pros (in addition to the child abuse she commits on that wretched show).

 

Yes, that's my understanding as well. Her mother was apparently a much loved dance teacher. ALM tried briefly to dance but for whatever reason decided it wasn't her thing. So as a teen (14? 16?) "became" a choreographer. It seems a little fuzzy about how she gained this skill - perhaps from hanging around a dance studio?  I don't know.  Years in the business is not a true credential.

 

But I do believe the attitude from the pros (and other non-DWTS pros) goes much deeper than antipathy.  It seems there's some anger that this woman has been given a television platform and tons of media attention that basically does damage to the dance industry.  One of the DWTS pros said in an interview recently - sorry, I can't remember who said it or where I saw it - that dance industry professionals want to shut her down for the bad image she's given to the profession.  They don't want student and their parents to think ALM's portrayal of learning to dance is normal or even acceptable.

[Kromm]

Maks is a jerk. I'm no Abby fan, but his comment was off base. Why can't he just be gracious ?

 

Abby Lee Miller was a terrible choice for guest judge. I totally agree with the comment Maks made after her comment on their dance.

There's a history between pros on this show and her going back a while.  Derek, for example, totally railed on her in the press several years ago.  

[Alapaki]

I do think they will replace the judges soon, though, and if they do I hope they keep Tom for SOME continuity at least. His contract is up next spring.

 

 

My understanding is that Tom has announced that he's leaving America's Funniest Videos.  So hopefully that means he's keeping his DWTS gig.

[Woodrose]

I'd really love to know if these stars' voter-scores are as relatively close as their percentage-adjusted Judges' scores.

I strongly suspect they are not, most of the time.

 

In the season one finale of So You Think You Can Dance, they gave the vote percentages for the final four (Its never been done again).  The percentages were very widely spaced -- something like 39%, 28%, 18%, 15%.  Combining these types of number with the judges percentages will show that the fans determine the placement, and the judges percentages will not change the finish order from the fans' preferences.

 

This is why I don't get all upset about the judges' scores, whether Meryl's tango received one point less than Amy's, or any of that.  I just think that the margins between the judges scores are so small, they will be quickly overwhelmed by the fan votes.  By and large, I think that the fan votes determine the winners and where everyone finishes.

 

In Season 8, just before the winner was announced, Tom said that it was the closest competition ever, with less than one percent separating the winner and runner-up.  He's never said anything like that before or since, leading me to believe that most times the vote is not so close.

[crowceilidh]

On twitter last nigt, the woman who has been analyzing Facebook

 

 

Bitsy, can you tell me her twitter address?

 

Surprise of the season for me is that I tuned in expecting to root for Charlie, since he has always been my favorite of the pair as ice dancers, but find myself enjoying Meryl much more on DWTS.

 

 

Me TOO!

[Alapaki]

I just think that the margins between the judges scores are so small, they will be quickly overwhelmed by the fan votes.  By and large, I think that the fan votes determine the winners and where everyone finishes.

 

 

Having run the numbers all season, I'm inclined to agree.  

 

Of course, when they throw in extra dances that the Judges get to vote on after the viewer-voting is closed, but which factor into the final totals of who wins, that certainly provides the opportunity to determine the winner (or at least determine who moves from F3 to F2)

[fishcakes]

Their contempt for her was clear, and it's part of the reason all her bad jokes went over like lead balloons. The professionals were not going to flirt back with her or bounce back her attempts at banter.

 

Speaking of flirting, I saw her on on some news entertainment show last night, and it was gross/hilarious. She said that she used to be a huge Maks fan and was offended on his behalf about Julianne's "phoning it in" comment. She said something like, "I was going to tell him, 'hey, you can phone me anytime,' but after last night, oh well," implying that he'd missed his chance with her. Which ... LOL. I'm sure he's super bummed about that.

[Bitsy]

Bitsy, can you tell me her twitter address?

https://twitter.com/KristinHope2

[legaleagle53]

Speaking of flirting, I saw her on on some news entertainment show last night, and it was gross/hilarious. She said that she used to be a huge Maks fan and was offended on his behalf about Julianne's "phoning it in" comment. She said something like, "I was going to tell him, 'hey, you can phone me anytime,' but after last night, oh well," implying that he'd missed his chance with her. Which ... LOL. I'm sure he's super bummed about that.

 

Yes, somebody had better put Maks on a suicide watch, because he's clearly got nothing left to live for now that he's been rejected by Abby Lee Miller!

[susannot]

Not really.  "Rumba" is the modern spelling (it is, in fact, how it is spelled in the original Spanish).  "Rhumba" is an older variation that is no longer as commonly used as it once was.

 

That makes sense, since I am also an older variation not commonly used as it once was.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

 

So hopefully that means he's keeping his DWTS gig.

I just read a long interview with TB and he has a contract he fully intends to honor through the Spring of 2015.  So, at least two more cycles, if Disney picks the show up.

 

He said the Fall season has been formally picked up and they are deciding when to officially announce this.

 

He also said he really liked BB-C on a personal level and that he likes working with Erin because she is quick to pick up on things said, which allows him to react better.  He appreciated how well she handled Amy's injury situation.  He revealed he was having dinner with BB-C the very next day.

[TeeM]

I tend to agree with the Facebook predictor lady about Charlie likely getting less votes than we might think. Before the show started this week, I expected that either Danica or Charlie would be going home. As lovely as he is, I think he is getting lost in the shuffle. Whether that is because he has super short, drama and excitement free pre-dance packages or because he is getting nitpicked at every turn, I have no idea. But I will say that as much as I like watching him dance, I always find myself saying "oh, right! And Charlie!" when they show the recaps at the end of the episode. And totally unscientifically, I've heard almost none of the casual DWTS viewers I know mention Charlie at all. Meanwhile, I see Team Jeta references almost everywhere. Anytime I click on a social media story about "who had your favorite dance this week?" the bulk of the answers are almost always James or Meryl. 

 

Of course, social media is not the be all, end all and there are lots of people voting who don't use Facebook or Twitter at all. Also, it seems that figure skating fans who love Davis and White, really love Charlie (more than Meryl in a lot of cases) so maybe they are making up the difference. But I wouldn't be surprised if he were our season's shocking elimination next week. Despite Meryl's low scores this week, Meryl and Maks seem to be everywhere right now in part because of Maks saying exactly what everyone else was thinking about Abby Lee Miller. I think they likely got enough votes to get them through to the finals.

 

Once upon a time I was excellent at predicting reality show eliminations (I was especially good at Idol, LOL) but not so much anymore so my gut on this one could be totally off. 

 

[Bitsy]

Whether that is because he has super short, drama and excitement free pre-dance packages or because he is getting nitpicked at every turn, I have no idea.

Charlie's rehearsal package was a full 90 seconds this week, which is longer than the standard 1:15.  He also got perfect scores and virtually no nitpicking, so they're making up for past weeks.

[Uke]

I was looking at the DWTS facebook and there seemed to be a lot of negativity about Amy's dancing (not Amy personally) - dancing on a stool, not being critiqued, being overscored/overpraised, Derek not letting her let loose, yada yada.  I'm wondering if she's getting the votes or if the inspirational glow is wearing thin to where she might be the "shocking elimination".

 

James has a lot of young fans and the problem with them is, they'll retweet his every tweet till their fingers bleed but they don't seem to vote (ex. Cody, Zendaya).

[Glaadrial]

I tend to agree with the Facebook predictor lady about Charlie likely getting less votes than we might think. Before the show started this week, I expected that either Danica or Charlie would be going home. As lovely as he is, I think he is getting lost in the shuffle. Whether that is because he has super short, drama and excitement free pre-dance packages or because he is getting nitpicked at every turn, I have no idea. But I will say that as much as I like watching him dance, I always find myself saying "oh, right! And Charlie!" when they show the recaps at the end of the episode.

I wrote elsewhere that I couldn't imagine a situation where the producers would think that a Final that didn't feature both Ice Dancers would be a ratings winner over one that included both Meryl and Charlie, but after reading some of the Facebook lady's tweets and looking at the numbers on the "Vote for your favorite" Facebook page, it doesn't look good for Charlie.

 

It's looking a lot like the lowball score for Meryl may have been intended to justify naming her as being "in jeopardy" next week along with Charlie. Maybe the show runner felt that if he's not pulling in the numbers, that this would be the most dramatic send-off for him. I think that the FB numbers last week indicated that Charlie and Danica were at risk of leaving, so I don't really understand why they would avoid declaring a bottom two (as they have done in prior seasons) with Charlie in it; if, indeed he was. Doing so could have generated a frenzy of voting for him. Percentage-wise, Meryl is so far ahead of the pack on Facebook favorites that even if some of her fans threw votes his way, it shouldn't have impacted her too badly. 

 

I mean, it seems like TBTB went out of their way to give him the "successfully chasing a perfect score" arc along with a favorable duel dance to a Contemporary routine (i.e., the only dance duel who could do lifts...and Charlie is great at lifts). I know that he picked Candace out of a mirror-ball, but the dance assignment was not really made clear as far as I could tell. I don't mean that it was nefarious or unfair (I think, on paper, all the dance assignments appear favorable), I just mean that there seemed to be a real effort put into rehabilitating his story-line and I think they succeeded. I'm struggling to find a reason for undoing all that good work, if he was in the bottom two last week.

 

Nevertheless, until it comes to pass, I'll choose to believe that Charlie was not in the bottom two last week and hope that the Facebook numbers were better predictors earlier in the season when there were more horses in the race. There's still hope that partners on the ice will get to have a showdown in the ballroom.

 

ETA: Nifty links as text feature described in the Questions Forum.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Glaadrial

[jhlipton]

I didn't care for Amy's AT, especially after her Jive. Her shoulders are soooooooo sore she can hardly move and a half-hour later she feels just fine. Meanwhile, I got no heat from the AT, at all. Blech. I felt it was Derek's worst dance. I think Amy has been overscored all season in part because she's SO inspirational!!!!!! and partly because of King Derek. I don't dislike her, but she should go next after James.

[CED9]

I wrote elsewhere that I couldn't imagine a situation where the producers would think that a Final that didn't feature both Ice Dancers would be a ratings winner over one that included both Meryl and Charlie, but after reading some of the Facebook lady's tweets and looking at the numbers on the "Vote for your favorite" Facebook page, it doesn't look good for Charlie.

It's looking a lot like the lowball score for Meryl may have been intended to justify naming her as being "in jeopardy" next week along with Charlie. Maybe the show runner felt that if he's not pulling in the numbers, that this would be the most dramatic send-off for him. I think that the FB numbers last week indicated that Charlie and Danica were at risk of leaving, so I don't really understand why they would avoid declaring a bottom two (as they have done in prior seasons) with Charlie in it; if, indeed he was. Doing so could have generated a frenzy of voting for him. Percentage-wise, Meryl is so far ahead of the pack on Facebook favorites that even if some of her fans threw votes his way, it shouldn't have impacted her too badly.

I mean, it seems like TBTB went out of their way to give him the "successfully chasing a perfect score" arc along with a favorable duel dance to a Contemporary routine (i.e., the only dance duel who could do lifts...and Charlie is great at lifts). I know that he picked Candace out of a mirror-ball, but the dance assignment was not really made clear as far as I could tell. I don't mean that it was nefarious or unfair (I think, on paper, all the dance assignments appear favorable), I just mean that there seemed to be a real effort put into rehabilitating his story-line and I think they succeeded. I'm struggling to find a reason for undoing all that good work, if he was in the bottom two last week.

Nevertheless, until it comes to pass, I'll choose to believe that Charlie was not in the bottom two last week and hope that the Facebook numbers were better predictors earlier in the season when there were more horses in the race. There's still hope that partners on the ice will get to have a showdown in the ballroom.

ETA: Nifty links as text feature described in the Questions Forum.

I always feel that Facebook is skewed to the negative in anything, because the people who Like something or someone can just hit the Like button and go on their way, whereas the people that don't like someone comment about everything so it ends up looking like there's more negativity when there really isn't. Plus, there's the whole notion of keyboard courage. It's definitely not limited to DWTS.

[OakGoblinFly]

Charlie's rehearsal package was a full 90 seconds this week, which is longer than the standard 1:15.  He also got perfect scores and virtually no nitpicking, so they're making up for past weeks.

But is it too little too late?

[Quickbeam]

I don't see Charlie leaving this next week. Because his hair is made of win! :)

[spanana]

James has a lot of young fans and the problem with them is, they'll retweet his every tweet till their fingers bleed but they don't seem to vote (ex. Cody, Zendaya).

I think that's hard to say regarding James, because even Cody and Zendaya are not two examples of the same thing at all.  Cody is a kid with 6 million plus fans on twitter who went out of this competition fairly early and his fans seemed super complacent and not interested in DWTS.  Zendaya had maybe 2 million or so twitter followers at the time and was one of the most popular of her season.  She eventually lost to Kellie Pickler, but it was a hard fought battle and her fans voted her all the way to 2nd Place and they went hard.   Plus if we want to get super technical that final has a pretty big asterisks next to it because of the online voting breakdown so all online votes, minus Facebook, were completely thrown out.  I suspect that throwing out online voting hurt the youngest competitiors the most.

 

But point to say, I can't say James fans aren't voting hard because who do we compare his fanbase to at the moment?  His fanbase is clearly less apathetic than Cody's fanbase or James wouldn't still be here at the semi-finals, though I'm not sure he has quite the popularity of Zendaya in her season.  However James has stiffer competition.  

 

The biggest issue with James IMO is it almost feels like he's losing a little momentum as someone like Candace is gaining momentum.  Plus the elimination of someone like Danica probably only helps Meryl in any real way.

[Joystickenvy]

I always feel that Facebook is skewed to the negative in anything, because the people who Like something or someone can just hit the Like button and go on their way, whereas the people that don't like someone comment about everything so it ends up looking like there's more negativity when there really isn't. Plus, there's the whole notion of keyboard courage. It's definitely not limited to DWTS.

It's not even limited to Facebook really. Even on forums and such, people who like something tend to comment once or agree with somebody else and then move on, unless they really, really like it, while people who hate something are much more likely to enthusiastically and frequently post about how much they hate it.

[radishcake]

people who hate something are much more likely to enthusiastically and frequently post about how much they hate it.

@Joystickenvy have you been reading the p.tv forums? ;)

[Joystickenvy]

@Joystickenvy have you been reading the p.tv forums? ;)

What's that? ;)

[Dots And Stripes]

I always feel that Facebook is skewed to the negative in anything, because the people who Like something or someone can just hit the Like button and go on their way, whereas the people that don't like someone comment about everything so it ends up looking like there's more negativity when there really isn't. Plus, there's the whole notion of keyboard courage. It's definitely not limited to DWTS.

Interesting. There might be something to this, however facebook is still a lot more positive than the abc board. I think tying comments to people's real identities is something of a check. Most of the negativity I saw towards Amy's dance was mild. It was stuff like 'It was good but not worth all 10's" or "It wasn't the best dance of the night." It would make sense that tying comments and likes to real identities would yield a better sample of the voting public than something like the abc board.

 

I can't figure out who I think will go home. I want James to go, but I really can't tell what his fan base is like. I think Amy is safe on points from the judges and even though she's becoming polarizing, that's fine as long as she has a solid group supporting her which I think she does. I would guess Candace will go, maybe Charlie if his fans were complacent. I'm not happy that Abby and the duel thing put Meryl in danger, but she seems to have a lot of support out there.

 

The dance duel took everything I dislike about the team dance and condensed it. We now have couples doing contemporary twice a season. I want to ban contemporary and jazz altogether and bring back the paso and waltzes. It's silly that stars can make it to the end of this show now doing more of this miscellaneous dances than actual standard ballroom dances.

[tarotx]

I think Jazz and Contemporary should be left for the team and these duel dancers. The couple dancers should be Latin and ballroom. 

[CED9]

Interesting. There might be something to this, however facebook is still a lot more positive than the abc board. I think tying comments to people's real identities is something of a check. Most of the negativity I saw towards Amy's dance was mild. It was stuff like 'It was good but not worth all 10's" or "It wasn't the best dance of the night." It would make sense that tying comments and likes to real identities would yield a better sample of the voting public than something like the abc board.

I can't figure out who I think will go home. I want James to go, but I really can't tell what his fan base is like. I think Amy is safe on points from the judges and even though she's becoming polarizing, that's fine as long as she has a solid group supporting her which I think she does. I would guess Candace will go, maybe Charlie if his fans were complacent. I'm not happy that Abby and the duel thing put Meryl in danger, but she seems to have a lot of support out there.

The dance duel took everything I dislike about the team dance and condensed it. We now have couples doing contemporary twice a season. I want to ban contemporary and jazz altogether and bring back the paso and waltzes. It's silly that stars can make it to the end of this show now doing more of this miscellaneous dances than actual standard ballroom dances.

I have the feeling Candace will go just so they can have 2 guys and 2 girls in the finale. This is the first season in awhile, that I can remember anyways, that is skewed talent wise heavily towards the ladies.

[Dots And Stripes]

I have the feeling Candace will go just so they can have 2 guys and 2 girls in the finale. This is the first season in awhile, that I can remember anyways, that is skewed talent wise heavily towards the ladies.

That sounds like rigging, no? If they really wanted Candace gone they could have given her a negative package rather than showing her having fun with Mark and playing with her kids. I could see manipulation, but not the producers outright ignoring votes to change the outcome.

 

Haven't women won the last 3 seasons?

[Flick]

I have to give credit to ALM, this is the first time ever that I've gone back and rewatched an episode solely for the judging. And by for the judging, I mean to pick up all the little moments where CAI, Len, Bruno, and Tom were just 200% done ALM. Needless to say, there were a lot of them. I enjoyed the various attempts to not smile/hide their laughter when Val bit back about the Chaines turns.

[Uke]

Spanana:  Thanks - I'd forgotten about the online votes being thrown out.  Using only phone + Facebook votes knocks out the bulk of the fanbases and power voters.  I agree about the big asterisks next to that result.  As for James, I'm not sure who his fans are - tweens? He presents as more mature than 23yrs so maybe he's attracted the more mature viewers by now.

 

Dots And Stripes:  The ABC boards are just crazy.  The old boards were crazy too but there used to be some really good conversations on there. The trolls would generally leave alone (or get run off from) the team-support and pro-support threads. I made friends there that I still chat with now on twitter or other forums.  Now it's just an endless scroll of mostly venting or cheering.  I agree with you about the dances. So far we've had, what, 1 paso and 1 slow waltz?  I'm ok with EITHER Jazz OR Contemporary if it's assigned late in the season but I want everyone doing the AT, Viennese Waltz, Slow Waltz, Paso, Salsa and Quickstep.

[Glaadrial]

So far we've had, what, 1 paso and 1 slow waltz?  I'm ok with EITHER Jazz OR Contemporary if it's assigned late in the season but I want everyone doing the AT, Viennese Waltz, Slow Waltz, Paso, Salsa and Quickstep.

I really like your list of suggestions for mandatory dances, except I'd substitute Really Traditional Samba (Louis VA/Karina from 2011) danced to music with an appropriate samba rhythm, over the examples of Salsa that we've been getting. I'd also add Jive and Tango. I do love to watch a good Rumba, but ever since Lacey introduced bare feet with Lance, the more successful ones have leaned toward Contemporary so substituting it with actual Contemporary isn't a big deal.

[CED9]

That sounds like rigging, no? If they really wanted Candace gone they could have given her a negative package rather than showing her having fun with Mark and playing with her kids. I could see manipulation, but not the producers outright ignoring votes to change the outcome.

Haven't women won the last 3 seasons?

Oh, trust me. What I want to happen, and what I think will happen are worlds apart. I wouldn't be the least bit upset if the boys are the next 2 to get kicked off. James just isn't that good, particularly his posture which should've been fixed ages ago. Charlie is good, but I find myself forgetting him until the recap pops up at the end.

The ladies are more talented and memorable to me.

[spanana]

 

I have the feeling Candace will go just so they can have 2 guys and 2 girls in the finale. This is the first season in awhile, that I can remember anyways, that is skewed talent wise heavily towards the ladies.

Both S15 and S16 were pretty heavily dominated by female celebs.  We had a Final 3 of all women during All-Stars.  S16 had a Final 4, which 3/4 were women.   We've had female winners for the last three seasons.   I think talentwise this show has been skewed towards the female celebs for the last several seasons, though S15 was a little odd since some of the expected fave male all-stars were good dancers, but just knocked out of the competition fairly early.