S03.E06: One Last Card To Play

[FormerMod-a1]

Quote

Familiar faces from the past return, causing havoc and forcing the crew to scramble to save their already damaged reputations.

[wanderingstar]

Bizarro Two and Three ride again. 

Not my favorite episode of the season, but I still enjoyed it. Loved the banter between Two and Wexler and Three and Tash. 

And Five & Android were awesome as always.

Next week looks good, but I need my Six to be ok.

[mjc570]

I liked this.  The cast may not be at Orphan Black levels, but I thought did a good job of subtly conveying which version they were.  I totally didn't understand the Three/Sara scene, as it had nothing to do with the plot (or, of course, I totally missed it), so I assume it is some kind of set-up.  I am a bit tired off Five - when I thought she was a 12 year old, I thought she was great, now she seems too childish.  Maybe it's her squeaky voice.. 

[2727]

1 hour ago, Gillian Rosh said:

And Five & Android were awesome as always.

Also Android and Android.

[DEM]

On 7/7/2017 at 8:19 PM, mjc570 said:

I am a bit tired off Five

She makes my FF-finger twitch.

I got lost, it seems.  Why did our crew let the alters go? Was that one of alt-Android's demands?

I appreciated the high level of Two very, very much! But at the end, I pinpointed what's missing this season. Two doesn't have a season-long, personal arc. Three has Sarah, and Five has her pining, but Two doesn't have anything like that.

Edited July 10, 2017 by DEM

[Raja]

7 hours ago, DEM said:

 

I got lost, it seems.  Why did our crew let the alters go? Was that one of alt-Android's demands?

.

That is my take it was an Android to Android negotiation.  While they may have tried one last gambit on the alternate universe Android she did hold our Three. And our Raza crew are trying to be better people summery executions might still be done, but they are not always done..

[Terrafamilia]

I got the feeling they were setting up a plotline where Sarah tries to keep Three with her in her virtual world.

Emperor Ishida clearly never attended the military academy himself.

[thuganomics85]

Heh, for some reason, I felt like there was something slightly off with Melissa O'Neil and Anthony Lemke's performances in the opening act, so them ending up being the alternates a.k.a. Portia and Boone, was a bit "Oh, well that explains it!" moment.  Fun seeing them again, although it does feel like Three and Boone are still very similar, while there is clearly more differences between Two and Portia.  Judging from Portia's last scene, they'll probably be back, although I wonder if alt-Android killed that Tash character or not.  Also, I'm guessing they handed Rich Dotcom... err, Wexler back as well?

While all the twists and turns were fun, I do think they are dipping a bit too much into the "Five comes out of nowhere and saves the day" pool.  Although, at least this time it looked like she wasn't going to convince Tash, but it was alt-Android that ended up making it all work out.

So, Adrian wants to leave, now?  He can go, but let Solara stay!

At the risk of possibly getting locked up for treason, Ryo really doesn't seem very good at this whole Emperor thing.

Something bad is going to down with Sarah, I imagine.

[snowwhyte]

What happened to cool-headed, mysterious Ryo? Now that he has his memory back and is emperor he is practically throwing temper tantrums. He is such a bad leader. I don't just want him to be killed. I want him to acknowledge that he's an awful emperor while he watches the House of Ishida fall.

[KaleyFirefly]

10 hours ago, snowwhyte said:

What happened to cool-headed, mysterious Ryo? Now that he has his memory back and is emperor he is practically throwing temper tantrums. He is such a bad leader. I don't just want him to be killed. I want him to acknowledge that he's an awful emperor while he watches the House of Ishida fall.

they definitely ruined the cool character that was Four.

[festivus]

On 7/8/2017 at 4:55 PM, snowwhyte said:

What happened to cool-headed, mysterious Ryo? Now that he has his memory back and is emperor he is practically throwing temper tantrums. He is such a bad leader. I don't just want him to be killed. I want him to acknowledge that he's an awful emperor while he watches the House of Ishida fall.

I know. He's like a three year old throwing a temper tantrum. I hate this storyline. At least we didn't have to see Knives(I forget her name on the show) smirky face this episode. 

[CoderLady]

Each episode title is usually taken from a line of dialog but this week I think I missed it. I'm going to (oh no!) have to watch it again to catch it.

Edited July 9, 2017 by CoderLady

[MissLucas]

Show is starting to read my mind - kinda. The other week I was thinking that the show had made a bad call of wasting Ennis Esmer on Wexler - his Rich Dotcom over at Blindspot is such a delight. Esmer should have taken over as Ersatz-Tabor, he would have been great but alas his character got spaced. I had completely forgotten about  alt-Wexlerho who definitely channeled some Rich Dotcom and was great fun to watch (Testy Robot!). Was he already that snarky in 2x16? I also liked his exchange with Two and now I'm hoping Rich makes it into Blindspot's season 3.

Well, that settles the question who the stowaways from the alt-verse were. No more Jayce Corso, fine by me.

While I understand Five-fatigue I think her part here was logical. Alt-verse Raza lacked Five (I always wondered about that and if we'll ever get back to that omission) alt-crew members don't know her, and that automatically makes her the joker in any attempt to take over the Raza. Not checking warrants and GA files on the Raza was a mistake by Portia. Maybe alt-verse is really into 'don't Google yourself!' Apparently Portia has learned her lesson now - good job in finding an ally.

I'm glad that deactivation code for the Android is no longer valid. Speaking of the Android: Girl, what the hell was that beige tent you were wearing during the diplomatic exchange with your alt-ego??? First really bad fashion buy! Throw it into the Raza's recycler, urgh!

Alt-Android dealing with Tash was a great character beat. Her loyalty to Portia should never be tested even if you have to wonder how she deals with Portia's crimes. I hope we get some exploration of that later on.

I kinda enjoy Ryo's meltdown as emperor. Looks like undoing the memory-wipe is also his undoing. Four may have made a better emperor, he was also ruthless and not always particularly likeable but he was also more in control of himself.

Not a fan of Three and Sarah's arc. I'm also confused by Five's part in uploading Sarah. IIRC she uploaded the data at the beginning of this season - quite a while after Sarah's death. And then she kept it a secret until the Android found Sarah. Why?

I hope Solara returns - she was a great addition to the crew. Adrian's arc can't be over because we still don't know about Chekhov's crew members mentioned by him in the first episode. So that leaves a door open for Solara as well.

And of course Six is in trouble!

[jhlipton]

On 7/7/2017 at 11:29 PM, 2727 said:

Also Android and Android.

"Are you prevaricating right now?" "No."  OK, then! 

On 7/8/2017 at 4:36 PM, thuganomics85 said:

While all the twists and turns were fun, I do think they are dipping a bit too much into the "Five comes out of nowhere and saves the day" pool. 

This was set up from the vision the Android had from her time trek.  She recognized what was going to happen and had the Joker (as @MissLucas calls) all ready to go.

#LetSoloraStay!

[call me ishmael]

I'm beginning to think that the "double betrayal" and the "fall of the House of Ishida" are linked: the latter storyline is going to be so dull that it causes the show to be cancelled.  A betrayal of both actors and fans.

[Eulipian 5k]

It would make more sense if the "House of Ishida" chapter offered a wider scope to the  show, ie large vistas the sense of being on a planet where land is of value., But all of Ishida's scenes could have been in a submarine like all the other space ship bound action. I don't see what Japanese cos play adds to a show about Space, aliens, and androids. I don't remember seeing any land of Zairon, just interior sets. Yawn, meh, Zzz.

[2727]

I may be seeing through peevish colored glasses because I dislike the entire storyline, but all the Ishida actors are hamming it up SO BAD. The acting reminds me of cheap Saturday morning adventure series of the 50s. I almost expect the classic villain sound effect in every scene.

[Eulipian 5k]

23 minutes ago, 2727 said:

I may be seeing through peevish colored glasses because I dislike the entire storyline, but all the Ishida actors are hamming it up SO BAD. The acting reminds me of cheap Saturday morning adventure series of the 50s. I almost expect the classic villain sound effect in every scene.

It's like being stuck in "The Bride of Chaotica" without Captain Proton.

[tennisgurl]

The whole first sequences with Two and Three, I kept thinking that they were acting weird and their performances seemed off, and the WHAM alternate reality selves! I do enjoy the AU stuff, and Two and Three banter is always fun, even if its their evil twins and not the actual characters. I'm glad it got sorted out quickly though, and everyone figured out what was going on pretty quickly. I also enjoyed the scene where Five gets all upset about the evil Two and Three ruining their reputations, and Three is just like "Our reputations are already shit, who cares"? Also, they spaced a whole room full of people! Granted, we didn't see anything, but that's still cold as hell. Evil Two doesn't screw around. I hope they keep showing up as reoccurring adversaries for the Raza crew.

The Android vs the Alternate Universe Android stand off was great, and both Androids in general were quite awesome. I loved the AU Android just shooting the other chick and announcing that she wants to negotiate.

Adrian and Solara are gone already? This show is seriously burning through cast members at a truly ridiculous rate. Of course, they didn't die or anything, so they could come back. I would especially like Solara back, she seems like she has a ton of potential as a character.

I miss Four.

Edited July 11, 2017 by tennisgurl

[AzureOwl]

On 8/7/2017 at 4:55 PM, snowwhyte said:

What happened to cool-headed, mysterious Ryo? Now that he has his memory back and is emperor he is practically throwing temper tantrums. He is such a bad leader. I don't just want him to be killed. I want him to acknowledge that he's an awful emperor while he watches the House of Ishida fall.

I like the situation because of the consistency it brings to the situation.

Every flashback that we got to Four's time before the memory wipe showed that Ryo Ishida lacked the emotional control that Four had. Remember that his stepmother was able to frame him so easily because he was throwing a drunken temper tantrum over one thing or another at the time.  

[tennisgurl]

I'm still not sure where the Three/Sarah thing is going, but I'm wondering if Three will end up just disappearing from the "real" world so he can hang out with virtual Sarah all the time? Or maybe this Sarah isn't exactly like the original Sarah, and has some sinister motives?

[snowwhyte]

Quote

3 hours ago, AzureOwl said:

I like the situation because of the consistency it brings to the situation.

Every flashback that we got to Four's time before the memory wipe showed that Ryo Ishida lacked the emotional control that Four had. Remember that his stepmother was able to frame him so easily because he was throwing a drunken temper tantrum over one thing or another at the time.  

 

Yes, it is interesting if you are looking at the nature vs nurture argument. Ryo was raised as the heir of a royal family and he was taught that the glory of the empire and the royal family were the most important things. He had a massive ego and lost control when his feelings of superiority were challenged. Ryo without his memories was still ruthless but much more cool-headed and willing to consider the views of other people. 

[call me ishmael]

They should just bring in alternative universe Ryo and he can run both empires.  That would make a more interesting plot line.

[Clanstarling]

On 7/7/2017 at 8:19 PM, mjc570 said:

 I totally didn't understand the Three/Sara scene, as it had nothing to do with the plot (or, of course, I totally missed it), so I assume it is some kind of set-up. 

That was so squeezed in I thought at first it was alt-Three (who would have had memories of Sarah - and that might have been interesting...)

On 7/8/2017 at 1:36 PM, thuganomics85 said:

At the risk of possibly getting locked up for treason, Ryo really doesn't seem very good at this whole Emperor thing.

He wasn't great as the heir to the throne/battleship commander either. He's best at posturing, scenery chewing, and whipping around his swords. I miss Four. On a side note - Misaki might be missing on this episode, but the actress shows up in GLOW. I didn't recognize her for the longest time until she pulled a bitch face.

On 7/9/2017 at 3:33 PM, CoderLady said:

Each episode title is usually taken from a line of dialog but this week I think I missed it. I'm going to (oh no!) have to watch it again to catch it.

Yep, you missed it. But I have already forgotten the context, sorry.

On 7/9/2017 at 4:33 PM, MissLucas said:

I'm glad that deactivation code for the Android is no longer valid. Speaking of the Android: Girl, what the hell was that beige tent you were wearing during the diplomatic exchange with your alt-ego??? First really bad fashion buy! Throw it into the Raza's recycler, urgh!

I half-expected the Android (or Two) to use the deactivation code on Alt-Android - since it's clearly the same one in both universes.

[Ceindreadh]

I hope that now they know that there's alt versions of some of them around, that they'll come up with some sort of code words so that they'll know they're dealing with the 'right' versions. 

 

Loved the alt-Android's line "Minimal. Effort"

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

I hope that now they know that there's alt versions of some of them around, that they'll come up with some sort of code words so that they'll know they're dealing with the 'right' versions. 

 

Loved the alt-Android's line "Minimal. Effort"

The first time was funny, the repeat hilarious. Even Alt-Android is funny.

[Wouter]

On 8-7-2017 at 7:31 AM, DEM said:

I got lost, it seems.  Why did our crew let the alters go? Was that one of alt-Android's demands?

I appreciated the high level of Two very, very much! But at the end, I pinpointed what's missing this season. Two doesn't have a season-long, personal arc. Three has Sarah, and Five has her pining, but Two doesn't have anything like that.

Both Androids demanded their crewmembers back. Neither tried to doublecross the other.

As for Two, IMO she does has a season-arc: her fight with Ryo will end on a personal note. The season started with Two declaring they will go after Ryo, it will likely end with a personal confrontation (and maybe a fight to the death - allthough other endings are possible too).

On 8-7-2017 at 10:36 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Heh, for some reason, I felt like there was something slightly off with Melissa O'Neil and Anthony Lemke's performances in the opening act, so them ending up being the alternates a.k.a. Portia and Boone, was a bit "Oh, well that explains it!" moment.  Fun seeing them again, although it does feel like Three and Boone are still very similar, while there is clearly more differences between Two and P.ortia.  Judging from Portia's last scene, they'll probably be back, although I wonder if alt-Android killed that Tash character or not.  Also, I'm guessing they handed Rich Dotcom... err, Wexler back as well?

 

The opening of the episode was great. We were all already warned by the trailer, and the acting of O'Neill and Lemke was just slightly off so we weren't surprised when they first coldly shot the guards in the head and then spaced the captives.  Agreed on the differences, Two and Portia are acting very different.

Tash was shot by the stungun, so she will be back (assuming the actress is available at the right time).

On 10-7-2017 at 0:33 AM, CoderLady said:

Each episode title is usually taken from a line of dialog but this week I think I missed it. I'm going to (oh no!) have to watch it again to catch it.

Tash said it to the Android - "one last card to play" just before it was revealed that Three was still captive and alt-Boon was on the Raza.

On 10-7-2017 at 1:33 AM, MissLucas said:

Show is starting to read my mind - kinda. The other week I was thinking that the show had made a bad call of wasting Ennis Esmer on Wexler - his Rich Dotcom over at Blindspot is such a delight. Esmer should have taken over as Ersatz-Tabor, he would have been great but alas his character got spaced. I had completely forgotten about  alt-Wexlerho who definitely channeled some Rich Dotcom and was great fun to watch (Testy Robot!). Was he already that snarky in 2x16? I also liked his exchange with Two and now I'm hoping Rich makes it into Blindspot's season 3.

Well, that settles the question who the stowaways from the alt-verse were. No more Jayce Corso, fine by me.

While I understand Five-fatigue I think her part here was logical. Alt-verse Raza lacked Five (I always wondered about that and if we'll ever get back to that omission) alt-crew members don't know her, and that automatically makes her the joker in any attempt to take over the Raza. Not checking warrants and GA files on the Raza was a mistake by Portia. Maybe alt-verse is really into 'don't Google yourself!' Apparently Portia has learned her lesson now - good job in finding an ally.

 

Alt-Android dealing with Tash was a great character beat. Her loyalty to Portia should never be tested even if you have to wonder how she deals with Portia's crimes. I hope we get some exploration of that later on.

I kinda enjoy Ryo's meltdown as emperor. Looks like undoing the memory-wipe is also his undoing. Four may have made a better emperor, he was also ruthless and not always particularly likeable but he was also more in control of himself.

 

Wexler was pretty snarky in his first season appearances, he tried to flirt with Two (without success). 

Alt-Portia is apparently going to be a relatively important villain on the show, as she has now renewed the old alliance with Ferrous. And she can tell him that Mikkei is secretly supporting Traugott, against Ferrous. Which is kinda remarkable, considering that Traugott screwed Mikkei over with the white-hole bomb. But hard times need hard measures, I suppose. 

The Android's remarkable loyalty to Portia makes me wonder again what exactly Portia did to the Androids (alt and original), and why.  

On 10-7-2017 at 7:36 PM, Eulipian 5k said:

It would make more sense if the "House of Ishida" chapter offered a wider scope to the  show, ie large vistas the sense of being on a planet where land is of value., But all of Ishida's scenes could have been in a submarine like all the other space ship bound action. I don't see what Japanese cos play adds to a show about Space, aliens, and androids. I don't remember seeing any land of Zairon, just interior sets. Yawn, meh, Zzz.

Budget. The show simply doesn't have the money, it would require "Game of Thrones" budget levels. For the same reason, almost everything within Ferrous and Mikkei seems to be run by Niemann and Truffault, respectively. And ground vehicles are just barely redressed vehicles of the present.

As to why the anachronistic Zairon is even in the show - Mallozzi is a big fan of Japanese anime, including what he calls the "swords in space" genre. It leaves me cold, but the hereditary system does allow the possibility of a character like Four/Ryo - and overall this is a good thing for the show, IMO. A character with such an arc is rare on television, a villain with a personal connection with the show's main characters. At the same time, his "face-heel" turn isn't ridiculous because the seeds for what Ryo is now (and was before the mindwipe) were clearly there in Four.

 

Four wasn't a great leader material either. In the final of S1, he was the first to abandon the plan to stick together (which was obviously the right call, would have made things much harder for Six). He only took initiative when it involved Zairon, and then he tended to go off on his own. Two, One and Six all showed far more leadership than he did. 

On 11-7-2017 at 4:16 PM, AzureOwl said:

I like the situation because of the consistency it brings to the situation.

Every flashback that we got to Four's time before the memory wipe showed that Ryo Ishida lacked the emotional control that Four had. Remember that his stepmother was able to frame him so easily because he was throwing a drunken temper tantrum over one thing or another at the time.  

Seconded. Moreover, with hindsight we could say that "evil stepmother" may actually have been the lesser evil for Zairon, allthough she was just as ruthless. She was probably a better (de-facto) empress than Ryo is an emperor.

Edited July 15, 2017 by Wouter

[DEM]

12 minutes ago, Wouter said:

As for Two, IMO she does has a season-arc: her fight with Ryo will end on a personal note. The season started with Two declaring they will go after Ryo, it will likely end with a personal confrontation (and maybe a fight to the death - allthough other endings are possible too).

Good point. Considering how much a like Two-Four as a duo, you'd think I'd be more attuned to this.  I guess it hasn't felt prominent enough lately?

Ryo would be a dummy to push a fight to the death.  Two can survive the vacuum of space; he's not winning that game!

Edited July 15, 2017 by DEM

[Wouter]

Given that the fall of the house of Ishida has been "foretold", I don't see Ryo winning in the end, even though he is very handy in certain kinds of fight. Two seems like the main character of the show and thus probably has to remain in play for (planned) S4 and S5.

Reconciliation seems unlikely. We'll see in a few weeks what will happen.

Speaking about ex-crewmembers, I was surprised that we didn't see Marc Bendavid back. Will the storyline of Derrick Moss ever be revisited? There is unfinished business there.