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S01.E06: A Murder Of Gods

Tara Ariano

By Tara Ariano
in American Gods [V]

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formerlyfreedom
formerlyfreedom

How awful am I for totally shipping Mad Sweeney and Laura? Like...super awful? Or just kinda middling awful?

Gudzilla
Gudzilla

Is it weird that I spent the last week randomly blurting out "You're an asshole dead wife" ?

Morrigan2575
Morrigan2575

Apparently all you need to do to make me like Laura Moon is put her in road trip movie with Salim and a perpetually angry Leprechaun. I really enjoyed tonight's episode, it was firing on all cyli

ganesh

ganesh

Great casting for Vulcan. I can totally get how he'd be rebranded as the American god of guns. Good job show, as well, because when they first showed the stylized "V" I knew he sold out to the pitch that Mr. World et al., were trying on Wednesday last week. Not that they were trying to be too subtle, but still. Good touch. 

Did not see the beheading coming though. I figured Wednesday was trying to recruit him but when they talked about franchise that was that. 

Although not too much happened, at least with the scene from last week, I can appreciate that there's some narrative direction now. 

Shadow has *got* to be the buffalo god. 

I think a little too much Laura for me. Her and Sweeny with the banter are funny, but in measured doses. Her current plot is "find Shadow" and that's ok. But I don't need that much screen time. I'm more interested in this coming war. 

On 6/4/2017 at 8:28 PM, WatchrTina said:

The decision to use The Partridge Family theme song over the images of the factory was . . . jarring.

"Playing weird song over dramatic scene" is kind of tropey to me. I've seen it so much in tv now that it loses its effect.

ganesh

ganesh

10 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

If the act of worship gives them power, why is Odin the most powerful of the old gods?

 

10 hours ago, yagathai said:

"Worship" doesn't necessarily mean the same thing to all people -- that's kind of one of the defining conflicts between old gods and new. Media says that time and attention are just as good as blood sacrifice, though Odin seems to disagree and craves blood sacrifice (as the Viking vignette taught us). But if they can subsist on time and attention, then the Norse pantheon is doing a lot better than a lot of other pantheons right now, especially since the Marvel movies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse_mythology_in_popular_culture). Of all the ancient non-Abrahamic pantheons, only the ancient Greeks might be doing better.

Beat me to it, but he does have a day of the week named after him. I suppose he's known "enough" since in general I think if you ask people who Odin is they at least know of the name. Maybe that's enough to keep him afloat, so to speak, and he's looking for real power now. 

yagathai

yagathai

1 minute ago, Wryly said:

Ooh. Myth-licious.

Well that's pretty badass. The other Old Gods only seem willing to accept human sacrifice, but Odin had the stones to sacrifice himself right alongside his worshipers. Respect.

It's been done. Jesus comes to mind. The Buddha sacrificed his earthly existence -- his wealth, his wife, his children -- to achieve enlightenment. It's all that Fisher King stuff that cultures do over and over again.

Wryly

Wryly

1 minute ago, yagathai said:

It's been done. Jesus comes to mind. The Buddha sacrificed his earthly existence -- his wealth, his wife, his children -- to achieve enlightenment. It's all that Fisher King stuff that cultures do over and over again.

No, I was referring to the characters within the scope of the show. The other Old Gods. Vulcan happily chucked his followers into molten vats. Bilquis's vagina friggin' eats people. That asshole spider deity seemed oh so willing to sacrifice a boat load of his people just as a passing "fuck you" (and clearly never intended to go down with the ship himself). So far I haven't seen much in the way of self-sacrifice from the pagan deities. Just a lot of "feed me, Seymour."

DarkRaichu

DarkRaichu

5 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

He's not "with Wednesday," is he? He's just one of many creatures who must be around, and he's bumped into the people we're following. We've also seen a djinn, and maybe others I've forgotten. (I'm not sure where the star sisters fit into the pantheon.)

Sweeney was supposed to meet Wednesday as planned in Wisconsin after he looked for his missing lucky coin.  It was a line in 1 of past episodes.  That tells me he is Team Wednesday

6 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

You know, I was wondering about that. Leprechaun's are magical creatures, not gods, as far as I know.  So now, I'm wondering why is he with Wednesday of he's not an old god or demi god? Unless he's not really a Leprechaun at all? 

Leprechauns are old school and from the old country.  Those are more than enough qualifications for Wednesday army.

 

Unanswered question:
So which god has the power of resurrection and why does he live in Kentucky???

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Drogo

Drogo

But this exchange...

Mad Sweeney: I've done the math. This times that equals you're a cunt, divided by the only way I'm going to get what I need is if you give it to me, equals the only way you're going to give it to me is if you don't need it. Like my friend Jesus Christ, the only thing you need, dead wife, is a resurrection.
Laura: Did you just name drop Jesus Christ like you know a guy who knows a guy?

perfect.gif

  • Love 10
BuddhaBelly

BuddhaBelly

9 hours ago, Wryly said:

No, I was referring to the characters within the scope of the show. The other Old Gods. Vulcan happily chucked his followers into molten vats. Bilquis's vagina friggin' eats people. That asshole spider deity seemed oh so willing to sacrifice a boat load of his people just as a passing "fuck you" (and clearly never intended to go down with the ship himself). So far I haven't seen much in the way of self-sacrifice from the pagan deities. Just a lot of "feed me, Seymour."

The Anansi thing kind of bothers me. I understand that sacrifice brings power, more legend to the name...but Anansi is from an oral tradition. What was the point of everyone on the boat dying bc if they're dead, how will they carry on the stories?

ganesh

ganesh

I assumed Sweeny meant Odin actually knows Jesus because we saw Jesus in the opener and Odin mentioned Jesus to Shadow in E2 or E3 with the "I knew a bunch of Jesuses" line. Being so old, I would think Odin knows a lot of gods. He seemed to know the tree in the police station. 

As much as the cryptic dialogue annoyed me until E5 when we got a glimpse at the big picture, the gods have been fairly consistent in saying only so much and letting the non gods fill in what they think they heard, whether true or not. 

Sweeny was right, but whatever Laura inferred about that he didn't say anything either way. 

DarkRaichu

DarkRaichu

22 minutes ago, BuddhaBelly said:

The Anansi thing kind of bothers me. I understand that sacrifice brings power, more legend to the name...but Anansi is from an oral tradition. What was the point of everyone on the boat dying bc if they're dead, how will they carry on the stories?

Since Anansi was able to see the future (per his speech) he should know that was not the only slave boat heading to America.  He most likely needed that blood sacrifice to boost his power for the final stretch of his journey to America.

  • Love 5
phane00

phane00

Though it was painfully obvious that Vulcan surrendered to the new gods, I do wonder if he still maintained some level of intellect.  Surely, he knew that Wednesday was likely to turn on him for his betrayal.  I wonder if Wednesday's blade might carry a curse as well, particularly since the blade was used against the maker. 

Also, there's Vulcan's family to consider.  In the Roman pantheon, he's the son of Juno and Jupiter, and married to Venus.  Would they feel obligated to avenge the death of their son/husband, or has Wednesday simply gotten their attention? 

yagathai

yagathai

4 hours ago, Drogo said:

I think Sweeney told Laura the one man who could help her "is next to your man" (Shadow) - making the resurrection god Wednesday.

Ah, no. That's a dialect thing. In Irish English "your man" translates to "the guy that is the subject of this conversation". So you could say "your man sold me a flat tire" and it just means "there's this guy and he sold me a flat tire".

  • Love 2
Anela

Anela

On 6/4/2017 at 1:06 AM, saoirse said:

How awful am I for totally shipping Mad Sweeney and Laura? Like...super awful? Or just kinda middling awful?

I am, too. 

On 6/4/2017 at 0:14 PM, LadyJaney said:

I must be awful too then, because I was thinking the same thing!

It is wrong that I am more into the scenes with Mad Sweeney, Laura and Salim on their road trip, than I am with watching Wednesday and Shadow?  If it's wrong, I don't want to be right...

Laughed at most of what Sweeney had to say again this episode.  Especially when he was going on in the back seat about Salim constantly running his mouth while they were on their drive.  That and when Salim said that someone shit in the back seat and Mad Sweeney starts shifting himself way over in the seat.  Too funny.  

Pablo Schreiber has completely stolen this series as this character as far as I'm concerned.  

It's a good series but a bit much and confusing with so many characters, so Sweeney is the main draw at this point for me. 

That was my favourite part, in the cab. When he started shifting around in the back, I laughed out loud. :) I wonder how they kept straight faces as they were shooting. I'd love to see outtakes. 

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Lantern7

Lantern7

Sorry I'm late. Had to worship the demigods on a three-hour American Ninja Warrior special. At this point, Jessie Graf can claim thousands of worshipers

I hate coming in late, because I did not realize Vulcan was played by Corbin Bersen. Without getting political, I liked the direction given with that god. But is this how things boiled down? Or am I missing something?

Vulcan: Here's a sword for you, good sir. Oh, and I'm basically neutral in the upcoming war, so you're basically fucked.

Mr. Wednesday: Aw, that's too bad. Deadgodsezwha???

Vulcan: Wha-??

Mr. Wednesday: KA-BAM!!!! (decapitates Vulcan; body falls into conveniently-placed smelting pit)

Shadow: (about a half-minute of sputtering in disbelief, even though just about everything has happened to him by now)

Mr. Wednesday: Ah, I reckon Hephaestus was smarter than this asshole. Lame guy, but he would've seen my reaction coming. (pulling down pants) I'm gonna curse his merchandise. Wanna watch a god take a piss?

Shadow: (more sputtering)

While I'm thinking about it: if Wednesday is Odin, shouldn't he be down one eye? Or did it grow back? Glass eye? Okay, I'm gonna stop thinking about it now.

ETA for @DarkRaichu: One? Love your nickname. Two? Did not notice the different colors. I think Gotham made me think telling stuff like that would be easy, like with Fish Mooney.

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jeansheridan

jeansheridan

On Monday, June 05, 2017 at 2:36 PM, DakotaLavender said:

would be very surprised if it makes it past one more season. 

It has been renewed for season 2.  I will agree the pace has been too leisurely but these are big ideas they are playing with.  I like a show willing to seriously examine faith, belief systems, and the state of society while still getting in the odd dick joke.  

This was the worst week in that the satire became too obvious and crude.  

The opening segment has grown on me however.  

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Doyounot

Doyounot

1 hour ago, jeansheridan said:

It has been renewed for season 2.  I will agree the pace has been too leisurely but these are big ideas they are playing with.  I like a show willing to seriously examine faith, belief systems, and the state of society while still getting in the odd dick joke.  

This was the worst week in that the satire became too obvious and crude.  

The opening segment has grown on me however.  

I wish i could find the article but i remember reading an interview where they said they had where they wanted the first season to end done in 4 episodes and then stretched it out to 8. That was the only bad thing i ever heard about the show before it aired so it stuck for me but its been great so far i dont mind it will go on for years hopefully (that was their thinking as well). It also gives them a chance to explore the ideas deeper and like you said this is one show that has lots to play with. This was the comedy episode for me and i love to laugh so im happy!

Plus i watch the americans so to me this is not slow at all!

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jeansheridan

jeansheridan

31 minutes ago, ganesh said:

mean, DaVinci faced down the Aztecs by completing a logic puzzle about corn. Also, *blind Dracula on fire*. 

Wow, you are selling a show I had no interest in.  I am beginning to like their programming director.  The Knick and Outlander are also challenging shows so kudos to Starz.  

That said with just 7 eps maybe a few less scenes of Laura and Sweeney sniping at each other and Laura gazing at her family through a window.  A family we don't know and probably won't see again.  

I am more interested in Shadow's mother and her 89 lovers?  

Also I think some of Shadow's tension came obviously from being in an all white town full of militant gun owners who were eyeballing him.  And he is still woozy from blood loss.  And a killer tree.  It has only been a week since prison.  I would be worried if he was chill.  But Ricky Whittle doesn't do rattled that well.  A freaked out Shadow isn't very "cool".  He seems a little dorky quite honestly.   I find it charming.

DarkRaichu

DarkRaichu

2 hours ago, ganesh said:

Starz likes slow moving shows that are kind of bonkers and doesn't really care about ratings. I would think this goes at least the 3-4 seasons that the other series have without a problem.

I mean, DaVinci faced down the Aztecs by completing a logic puzzle about corn. Also, *blind Dracula on fire*. 

You forgot the one with teenage King Arthur. What a waste of Eva Green's talents.

 

Back on topic. I thought Odin figured out Vulcan's allegiance when he started talking about rebranding.  Once Vulcan left Odin looked at the bottle he gave Vulcan wistfully as if remembering old times.

20 minutes ago, Rinaldo said:

Never! :) More, more, and still more of that, please.

I would watch a spin off with the 3 of them driving across country and meeting with random magical creatures and demi gods

  • Love 1
tennisgurl

tennisgurl

I would completely watch a spin off where Mad Sweeny, Laura, and Salim travel the US, having weird adventures and meeting various gods and monsters. I love this combination of characters, they crack me up. Highlight of the episode.

The rest was...I don't mean to be That Guy who constantly talks about how the book if different than the show, and I wont get into spoilers, but the Vulcan led city of right wing immigrant murdering gun nuts was not something that would have existed in the book, as the book was more about the greater implications of Americas identity, not about specific issues in general. I mean, the idea isn't bad, exactly. I actually like the idea of old gods taking on aspects of modern life, and Vulcan becoming a god of guns and gun culture is an idea that fits into the universe well enough. I like bringing the Greek gods into the mix. I was interested in hearing how this was based on something Neil actually saw while traveling the US. I can even see the show getting into gun culture, because it really is a big part of Americana. However, this was just so heavy handed, that it just came off as ridiculous and not really saying anything unique or interesting. All we got was "gun culture is BAD" following by "people who like guns are BAD" with a side of "Christians who are against illegal immigrant are HYPOCRITS". I'm not complaining about those messages, exactly, but its very one sided and obvious in a way that the book never was. Like, we never needed to see a bunch of uniformed gun worshipping lunatics murdering good kind illegal immigrants (complete with Mexican Jesus!) to think about Americas complicated and often hypocritical relationship with immigration. It was just there in the text. It wasn't so painfully obvious and over the top. It was a preachy in a way that doesn't really lead to telling an interesting story, or really examining anything. The villains are just straw men assholes who the audience is supposed to hate, and that's it.

That all being said, I thought Vulcan was interesting, and seeing Wednesday get his War God on was pretty cool. The pace doesn't bother me at all. Half the joy of the show is just experiencing this whole, weird world right outside the world that everyone knows. Its a road trip show, now with two road trips for the price of one. I like just seeing all the weird characters and seeing them bounce off each other.

If shipping Mad Sweeny and Laura is wrong, I don't want to be right.

ganesh

ganesh

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

The rest was...I don't mean to be That Guy who constantly talks about how the book if different than the show, and I wont get into spoilers, but the Vulcan led city of right wing immigrant murdering gun nuts was not something that would have existed in the book, as the book was more about the greater implications of Americas identity, not about specific issues in general.

The extreme gun culture of our society seems very much like the greater implications of Americas identity to me. Vulcan's monologue underscored the issue quite well. 

  • Love 4
tennisgurl

tennisgurl

@ganesh I guess I just wanted to see a bit more subtlety if they were going to so directly address a controversial topic. I actually think making Vulcan the God of guns is a cool idea, and I don't mind them taking on gun culture because, as you said, it's such a big part of American life. I guess I just didn't care for how it played out. I guess though, this is the same show that had a woman eating people with her vagina, it's always rather over the top :)

  • Love 1
raven

raven

10 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

This was the worst week in that the satire became too obvious and crude.

I agree with this, though I felt last week's episode dragged a bit too.   I just wanted to scream "get to the point" with the police station presentation from Mr. World, et al.

The casting department has hit it out of the park; the interplay between Wednesday and Shadow is entertaining and the Sweeney/Laura/Salim trio is gold.   I laugh every time Sweeney says "dead wife" and Laura's blasé yet irritated persona works for me.  Too bad to lose Corbin Bernsen so early (though he's a god, who knows?)

The side trips and visits are interesting; I'm not sure if Bryan Fuller can pull everything together coherently; I've only watched Hannibal, and Fuller seemed to like to drift off on things he found interesting but that didn't work with the whole.

Arynm

Arynm

(edited)

I wished they had called Vulcan, Hephaestus, but that's just me and my Percy Jackson loving heart.  Why did the God of blacksmiths and craftsmen have to be a sellout?!  I knew from the title of the episode that a God was going to die, so who better than the newly introduced God of Guns after all the gun violence shown earlier in the episode. A man that says that random movie shootings are good for business is a dead man walking, even if he is a God. 

I wonder though, archaeologists are finding and translating old texts all the time, are they literally bringing old Gods back from the dead? Is is enough for someone to just speak their name and know who they are, for the God to be reborn, so to speak? I just wonder, because I am sure that some of these old Gods haven't been worshiped continuously since their heyday.

I wonder if we will ever see the big guy, Aka: GOD. I would assume that he is really the most powerful, but who would be be aligned with? He seems to me he would be an old God, but I just don't know. 

ETA: Can you kill a God? Vulcan didn't lose any followers, and he is still worshiped so does he just pop back into existence after a bit? Maybe someone else just takes over for him, after all, his people aren't worshiping him per say, they are worshiping guns so maybe some other God can take over?

Edited by Arynm
  • Love 2
tennisgurl

tennisgurl

(edited)

So, since I didn't care for this one much on first watch I decided to watch it again, and I liked it more on a second watch:

The Vulcan town was still a rather heavy handed look at gun culture, but I thought the whole place worked as a creepy allegory for the more extreme parts of the subculture. Wednesdays speech summed it up pretty well. These are people who only see one version of America, and cant see anything else, and this was basically a really extreme version of that mindset, and how it would fit into a universe based around belief. Still about as subtle as getting hit by a Mack truck, but certainly interesting.

I'm disappointed that Vulcan was killed so quickly (probably) and anticlimactically. He wasn't a good guy by any stretch, but I thought his speech about guns being a volcano in your hand was super interesting, and I love the idea of old gods taking on new identities in the modern world. I think he still had potential as a character, even beyond his creepy town/cult. Like I said, not a good guy, but most of the gods of ancient Greece/Rome weren't very nice by modern standards, they just wanted power. Granted, Vulcan wasn't the worst one, but he is clearly still operating on a very old set of standards, and I would have liked to explore that more.

What was the cover of I put a Spell on You at the funeral march? I really liked it, it set a really surreal mood that worked for the episodes favor. This was definitely the most over the top episode so far, especially when it came to its commentary, and it made the whole thing work a bit better.

The opening Coming to America scene was actually a lot better on second watch, and I continue to really like all these little vignettes. I liked the music a lot (sounded like a western) and Mexican American Jesus was a pretty cool idea. However, the shot of Jesus getting shot in his hands and side and the tumbleweed giving him the crown of thrones was still pretty silly. I did like the idea that these murderous militia freaks who seem to consider themselves Christian warriors are actually worshipping an ancient pagan deity of smiths and weapons.

I am super glad they came back to the Louisiana themed Indiana bar, because its an awesome set piece. I still adore the Salim/Laura/Mad Sweeny Road Trip of the Damned. The three of them have a weirdly fun dynamic, especially as they seem to be kind of warming up to each other a teeny bit (well, as much as Laura and Mad Sweeny are capable) or at least seem to be tolerating each other. I also like that they brought in Salim as the perspective of a "normal" religious person, which is a nice addition to the show. Its a show about worship in the US after all.

Mad Sweeny keeps calling Laura Dead Wife, even though he has to know her name by now. The guy is just stealing the show for me.

So, while I still think this is my least favorite of the bunch, I did like it more after thinking about it more. Still a bit on the nose for my liking, but I can see more of what they were trying to do, thanks to hearing other peoples thoughts and watching again.

Edited by tennisgurl
  • Love 2
Which Tyler

Which Tyler

7 hours ago, Arynm said:

I wonder though, archaeologists are finding and translating old texts all the time, are they literally bringing old Gods back from the dead? Is is enough for someone to just speak their name and know who they are, for the God to be reborn, so to speak? I just wonder, because I am sure that some of these old Gods haven't been worshiped continuously since their heyday.

To paraphrase Douglas Adams: We wanted our gods to be immortal, so our gods became immortal, and stayed that way whether remembered them or not.

In the Adams/Pratchett (both friends/colleagues of Gaiman) view; belief = power; lack of belief renders a god powerless, not dead.

  • Love 2
ganesh

ganesh

10 hours ago, Arynm said:

I wonder if we will ever see the big guy, Aka: GOD.

I don't think the big guy exists in this universe. Essentially, Odin predates monotheism and it seems like this is a hyper-polytheistic with trees and buffaloes and new gods like Gillian Anderson popping up all over the place. Then again, there's Jesus. Unless the takeaway is that all these gods are deriving power from a singular source. 

Odin seemed confident that he could kill Vulcan. It may be very special circumstances (blade made from your hand), but Odin wasn't like, "Hope this works." I also notices that he handed the sword to Shadow, so now his prints are all over it too. It's not like people aren't going to stop buying and shooting guns though, so maybe Odin underestimated the strength of this worship.

I didn't have a problem with the town. It was over the top (woman eats people with her vag) like much of the show, but there's certainly small homogeneous towns dotted all across this country where they're paranoid of outsiders. 

Which Tyler

Which Tyler

(edited)
3 hours ago, Haleth said:

It was kind of a play on words.  Wednesday's entourage of crows is also called a murder.

They're Ravens, not crowd; so the colective noun is an "Unkindness"

As Drogo says though, Mad Sweeney did refer to gods / demigods having "Murder" as they're collective noun (I would have though "Pantheon" but maybe that's for each batch of gods rather than mixing across religions.)

Edited by Which Tyler
DarkRaichu

DarkRaichu

12 hours ago, Arynm said:

ETA: Can you kill a God? Vulcan didn't lose any followers, and he is still worshiped so does he just pop back into existence after a bit? Maybe someone else just takes over for him, after all, his people aren't worshiping him per say, they are worshiping guns so maybe some other God can take over?

I think Odin cursed the bullets to prevent that from happening.  If the curse makes the bullets defective, then nobody is going to buy them from Vulcan co. No buyer means no worshipper.  

Presumably Vulcan co would go bankrupt due to bad PR meaning other god is not going to take over anytime soon.

Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

I don't think the big guy exists in this universe. Essentially, Odin predates monotheism and it seems like this is a hyper-polytheistic with trees and buffaloes and new gods like Gillian Anderson popping up all over the place. Then again, there's Jesus. Unless the takeaway is that all these gods are deriving power from a singular source. 

 

Maybe Jesus is an old god too?   Jesus could really just be Mithras in this story, I would actually find that fascinating and fitting in with the theme.

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