Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[cambridgeguy]

Quote

All the smart Northern folks (all the people who want to live rather than in engage in political squabbles) would move south with Dany so they would be safe or at least safer. They could even help defend her rear. This way Dany would be keeping her word to Jon that she would fight for the North, something all the people who have no use for her are suddenly concerned about. Nothing like imminent death to wake people up.

All of the smart Northern folks should have sailed off to the Summer Isles a long time ago.  If the NK wins everyone is dead.  If Our Heroes win then the North will still suffer the brunt of the blow and require massive rebuilding, and this is coming after so many Northerners were wiped out during Robb's campaign.  Who would want to stick around for that?

[GrailKing]

7 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

All of the smart Northern folks should have sailed off to the Summer Isles a long time ago.  If the NK wins everyone is dead.  If Our Heroes win then the North will still suffer the brunt of the blow and require massive rebuilding, and this is coming after so many Northerners were wiped out during Robb's campaign.  Who would want to stick around for that?

Many a people go back to their lands and rebuild in real life, can't see it being any different in this world. No one but maybe a few rich lords may have coin to go somewhere else. 

[WindyNights]

On 4/10/2019 at 10:29 AM, sacrebleu said:

I think -- given the conversation between Jon/Dany about the witch lying about her ability to conceive children-- the show ends with Dany pregnant with Jon's baby and assuming the throne. Or little Eddard-Rheahgar being named king with Dany ruling until he comes of age.

I suspect Jon Snow will sacrifice himself in the great war-- he's already died once, and the whole notion of the seemingly lowborn guy (who is a secret prince) who rises from the dead to  fulfill his destiny by killing the Night King and ending the war between the living and the dead is a satisfying narrative. 

The prophecy of not birthing children is confusing on the show because it was never said by MMD on the show but it's referenced as if she did and the book version isn't really about Daenerys not being able to birth children but about the pre-requisites needed for Drogo to return to her

Jon has never been seemingly lowborn. He was initially thought to be the noble bastard of a high lord which makes him more important than a lot of noblility tbh

Jon looks like the 1% but he's actually the 0.1%

[WindyNights]

22 hours ago, glowbug said:

I know what they showed on the show but that’s not how a fireball would actually work. A direct hit with that much fire would be an instantaneous death. A person’s organs, including their brain, would be toast. The show has established that the characters on the show think death by fire is the worst kind of death, and I would agree being burned at the stake (along with mauled by dogs and crucifixion—and I don’t care about the instances when these were used because Ramsey and the child murdering slave owners deserved what they got) is the worst death on the show that I can think of, but death by a direct hit with dragon fire is more along the lines of beheading and hanging in terms of pain and length of time it takes to die. I agree they’re all bad. I’m against the death penalty in the real world but this is a fictional show which takes place in a fictional world which is based on fictional ideas about a historical time period so I choose to judge them differently than I would real world leaders. 

I'll say this much. Even in the books, GRRM wants you to feel some level of revulsion of what's going like when Daenerys feels regret over crucifying a bunch of slaveowners. And that's apparent also in the show. 

Now whethet you choose to do that is up to you but that's not how the story wants you to see things. You're supposed to be a little scared of Daenerys despite her good intentions. It's why Tyrion and Varys talk about Daenerys maybe turning into another mad Targaryen. She's meant to be a bit scary.

How well executed that is well....

[Minneapple]

New interview with Sophie Turner. This one's going to go over real well!

Quote

Is she at least impressed by the dragons?
She’s not initially impressed. She’s not happy because she’s going to have to feed these dragons. They require a lot of food and they have limited resources.

Hah! I knew it. Sansa's all, "bitch, those dragons better not be eating my lemoncakes."

Edited April 11, 2019 by Minneapple

[Neko]

Sansa is sounding more like her mother.  That is exactly the type of reaction Catelyn would have to two full grown dragons, descending on Winterfell.

[GraceK]

This parts nice 🙄

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: What can you tell us about Sansa’s storyline this season?
SOPHIE TURNER: Sansa this season is very much enjoying becoming a leader in her own right and the leader of Winterfell, and this year there are certain challenges of people who come into her life that threaten that. She has to go behind a few backs and risks tearing apart her family.

How is her relationship with Jon now that he’s brought home his new girlfriend?

Her relationship with Jon is struggling because he’s so clearly in love with Daenerys and believes in her completely. Sansa thinks she’s power-hungry and not the rightful queen. There’s a huge amount of fighting between Sansa and Jon.

🙄🙄🙄 I am so sick of shady Sansa already. Come on . How is this helpful or empowering? They keep recycling this storyline with her . 

And go behind a few backs and do what exactly? Sabotage Jon? Betray him? I don’t understand this at all. It’s so stupid.

Edited April 11, 2019 by GraceK

[tangerine95]

I mean it's nice to be a leader and all and I get she would enjoy it after so much of her life was in the control of others but are you really a leader people need rn if unless someone else comes with their resources and saves you then you will die.

Sounds to me like at least two people will go behind Jon's back to push him into a power struggle with someone he loves and who is a lot more powerful.Tbh can't wait for WF to burn down,and I can't believe I feel that way lol.

[YaddaYadda]

21 minutes ago, GraceK said:

🙄🙄 I am so sick of shady Sansa already. Come on . How is this helpful or empowering? They keep recycling this storyline with her . 

Don't you know? This is how a bunch of writers show women being empowered, by having them be bitchy and catty. 

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, Minneapple said:

New interview with Sophie Turner. This one's going to go over real well!

Hah! I knew it. Sansa's all, "bitch, those dragons better not be eating my lemoncakes."

She is right though about the food, how is she going to have enough for 80000 + army and 2 dragons.

Danny should had protected those food wagons.

[anamika]

44 minutes ago, GraceK said:

There’s a huge amount of fighting between Sansa and Jon.

For the third season in a row. Yawn. Sophie is the main actor who has filmed the least for season 8 - and most of that seems to be Sansa repeating her season 6/7 storylines with Jon.

What is even the point - We know that they will unite in episode 3 to fight the AOTD.

[GrailKing]

I think going behind peoples back, is another way of saying protecting her family and watching for Cersei.

Jon's ass is going to be busy with TAOTD full bore, no time for the other shit, logistic's will fall on Sansa , maybe she sends a raven to the iron bank to get them through the winter?

[Advance35]

Well that all seems perfectly logical and in-character to me.

It could have been Dany, Jon or Belle from Beauty and the Beast, Sansa was going to seethe with resentment for ANYONE who has more power than her or power OVER her.

She's spent far too much of her life powerless to ever not loathe Danerys Targaryen. She'll cooperate as little as possible without derailing the war ATOD but afterwards, Cersei and Dany can kill each other with her blessing.

And in all honesty, how are they going to feed those beast?

Sansa is thinking about what comes after the AOD.  If there is an after, the latter of power and who is on what rung is going to be very important.   She does not like her sense of security (in terms of power and influence), resting solely in the good will gained by Jon Snow.  I think we would have seen this be more pronounced in Season 6, if Sansa didn't know she needed Jon for his "military prowess."

Edited April 11, 2019 by Advance35

[Happy Harpy]

Joe Dempsie about S8

He mentions he spent 6 months in Belfast. Seems to have spent a lot of time there with John Bradley, he "got to know him" pretty well in the "last couple of years". Sam and Gendry elaborating weapons together, something about Catspaw, since it was in Sam's book in S7? (He met Mark Addy, "the nicest bloke", at the NY premiere.)

What he wanted in S8 was to know more Gendry's parentage, the political implications of his birth; didn't elaborate whether he got it or not. I feel that he didn't, the way he says "I want info" about peripheral characters. But actors are acting, so well... Gendry has no ambition for the throne.

At 4.40, questioned about Gendry and Arya (of course!) and "the spark" between them, "I don't know if I can really say", asks "is this [interview] gonna go after episode 1?" and when the interviewer answers "no", he's grinning and waving his hand, "in that case, you'll have to wait and see". Obviously, the interviewer knew what he had the right to ask or not, so "spark" was validated; and I'm so glad because I get hyped for S8 again. Gimme forge sex to compensate for the latest nonsense!

Finally, he says he was "surprised" by the ending, it needed to be "broadly satisfying but also kind of be surprising" and he "personally loves it".

Also comments that "you can read into all kinds of things that are probably aren't there". In other words, beware foreshadowing LOL.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[GrailKing]

People got SALT ?

What is VK ?

Edited April 11, 2019 by GrailKing

[GrailKing]

[screamin]

7 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

People got SALT ?

What is VK ?

Yes, I can just imagine Sophie hanging her last storyboarded scene of Zombie Sansa chowing down on Bran's forearm in her living room and no one noticing.

[GrailKing]

[Happy Harpy]

19 minutes ago, Advance35 said:

She'll cooperate as little as possible without derailing the war ATOD

And next thing you know, in 8x02 she maneuvers to get the dragons kicked out of WF so that she doesn't have to feed them. Like a boss ass bitch!🤣

I mean, since "who's going to feed the dragons" becomes a plot point whereas they've been showed fishing and hunting for their own food since 3x01... Oh wait, I know how it's going to be justified. The dragons turned vegan and covet all the quinoa and kale from WF's stores, those rascals! No more limits. YOLO!

See what shortage of leaks do? Not pretty 😂

[Neko]

Ah, I have speculated that Sansa might become part of the AotD in the past, but I haven't said anything about it on this forum.  I should have called it.  Very interesting.

[Eyes High]

Judging from that EW interview, Sansa will die as she lived: annoying as hell.

I don’t place much stock in this since Sophie keeps saying she wrapped in Seville where a scene from 8x06 was shot. Nor would I expect Sophie to hang a storyboard of Wight Sansa. It’s still fun to have fresh leaks to chew on, though, and if Sansa’s S8 plot is just her whining about Jonerys and the dragons and who knows what else, her death will come as a blessed relief.

[Happy Harpy]

11 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I don’t place much stock in this

Aside from the OP, two people pretend they saw the video, too, and they both have "Jonerys" or a variation in their moniker. So well...

 

Edited April 12, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[GraceK]

20 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

Aside from the OP, two people pretend they saw the video, too, and they both have "Jonerys" or a variation in their moniker. So well...

 

Yeah I think it’s bull

[Minneapple]

At least the new spoilers/foilers are making us laugh.

[GrailKing]

Just now, Minneapple said:

At least the new spoilers/foilers are making us laugh.

3.5 days to goooooo!

[Neko]

I really like the idea of a major character becoming a wight, though, and Sansa would be a good choice.  I hope it's true, because that turn of events would carry some weight and be heartbreaking, for the remaining Starks.  Imagine them having to fight, and ultimately burn, Sansa.  Yikes.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Shakma

[Happy Harpy]

24 minutes ago, Shakma said:

I really like the idea of a major character becoming a wight, though, and Sansa would be a good choice.  I hope it's true, because that turn of events would carry some weight and be heartbreaking, for the remaining Starks.  Imagine them having to fight, and ultimately burn, Sansa.  Yikes.

At the end of S7, I thought it had 50% chances to happen. However, Sophie Turner definitely filmed in Seville. Frikidoctor isn't the only one to say so, BSB maintained that she and Peter Dinklage did -and had pictures taken inside of their stand-ins' trailer, IIRC.

Unless they didn't only film KL scenes in Spain, Sansa doesn't become a wight/die at the WF battle.

[anamika]

7 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

And next thing you know, in 8x02 she maneuvers to get the dragons kicked out of WF so that she doesn't have to feed them. Like a boss ass bitch!🤣

Now we know why Kit was so animatedly frustrated with Sansa's 'nonsensical suggestions' in his 'Jon Snow therapy session' for the character history video.

Sansa: Jon, we need to get rid of those dragons. They eat too much.

Jon: But... we need dragons  - there are thousands of wights! And wight Viserion.

Sansa: Why are you not listening to me Jon? Don't be stupid like Ned and Robb. Dragons are raiding the granary!

Tyrion to Sam: Sansa is so smart now. Sam to Tyrion: Yeah, she's so smart.

It would be hilarious if Dany looks into the camera like on the Office as all this is going on.

Edited April 12, 2019 by anamika

[GrailKing]

Another :

[GraceK]

7 minutes ago, anamika said:

Now we know why Kit was so animatedly frustrated with Sansa's 'nonsensical suggestions' in his 'Jon Snow therapy session' for the character history video.

Sansa: Jon, we need to get rid of those dragons. They eat too much.

Jon: But... we need dragons  - there are thousands of wights! And wight Viserys.

Sansa: Why are you not listening to me Jon? Don't be stupid like Ned and Robb. Dragons are raiding the grainery!

Tyrion to Sam: Sansa is so smart now. Sam to Tyrion: Yeah, she's so smart.

It would be hilarious if Dany looks into the camera like on the Office as all this is going on.

This killed me 😂😂😂😂

[nikma]

Sansa's reaction is in character and that's the only thing that matters. We don't need everyone to be Dany's fangirl the moment they meet her. 

Human drama was heart of the show since E1 and it shouldn't be forgotten in the last season. AOTD can't stop this, just like alien invasion in our world would't stop political drama around the world.

Humans will be humans and that's why I fall in love with this show in the first place.

[GraceK]

13 minutes ago, nikma said:

Sansa's reaction is in character and that's the only thing that matters. We don't need everyone to be Dany's fangirl the moment they meet her.

🙄🙄🙄🙄 I am tired of this  “ Danys fangirl “ reaction. Who is Danys fangirl? When did this become a thing? This long off season has really , really upped the toxic propaganda against Daenarys character.  People all of a sudden act like you meet her and just fall at her feet. No. That’s not true. In show, and in book, she is very controversial and Not liked . The only people who are devoted to her are the slaves she has freed, which makes sense, Jorah, who book wise is creepy and obsessive,  and....who else? On the show, her best friend Doreah betrayed her and killed her Dothraki handmaiden, Jorah who has witnessed her giving birth to dragons so yeah he’s obviously a believer, Missandei who she saved and loves as a friend, and Daario who she left behind. Greyworm is loyal to her because she freed him and introduced to him to Missandei.  Tyrion loves her because she gives him the respect he has craved his entire life, and according to d and d, seeing her take off on Drogon in season 5 was like a religious experience for him. 

Jon loves her because she is his counterpart. She rushes into danger to help other people. Their journeys have been parallel. The difference between them is that she is more ruthless. She is a little bit stronger. Why is that a bad thing? They are the perfect balance.

Everyone is creaming their panties over how badass Sansa is for storing grain , and feeding Ramsey to his dogs, and taking control of her life . She has literally, in canon, betrayed her family, lied to Jon, trusted Littlefinger until the very last second of season 7, given interviews about how she will STILL go behind Jons back in season 8 and tear her family apart, admitted she admires Cersei, and has basically been used as shit stirrer and conflict lightning bolt since season 6, but yet all anyone ever talks about is how evil Dany is , and how Sansa is completely JUSTIFIED in all her bullshit????? While Daenarys has literally been on a trajectory of trying to make the world a better place for years??? 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️

Dany has been raped, abused, on the run her whole LIFE. She has been powerless, ashamed, beaten, poor, abused. That was her entire life. This argument that she has dragons and hasn’t suffered enough in comparison to Sansa and the Starks is bullshit. Sansa was born a lady and noble and was pampered and adored since birth. She only suffered a few years since her family fell. And now she’s on top again. Dany is royalty and her whole family was murdered and her WHOLE life was spent on the run, poor and destitute. She was sold to a warlord at 13 and was raped ( it was her own cunning that let   her make Drogo love her, and let herself love him ) she was abused by her brother and it was her own strength  and determination, after losing her BABY that had her walk into FLAMES and birth DRAGONS. Jesus. People act like things just fell into her pretty little lap. Uh no.. actually, that’s Sansa. If Littlefinger wasnt so obsessed with her, she would be dead already. I am so tired of this anti Dany propaganda. 

[nikma]

I don't hate Dany, I just criticized the fact that fandom spreads negativity about every character who disagrees with Dany and Jon and since more and more characters are disagreeing with them there is more and more negativity. Fans refuse to consider why Sansa, Arya, Sam, Lyanna, Tyrion and the rest could have legitimate reasons to disagree with them.

If someone questions anything Jon and Dany did, they deserve to die, because that clearly shows that the only way to defeat AOTD is to blindly follow whatever Dany and Jon say and it is not allowed to question them. Everyone should just shut up and listen to them and AOTD is coming so no one has any right to act like normal human.

Edited April 12, 2019 by nikma

[GraceK]

40 minutes ago, nikma said:

I don't hate Dany, I just criticized the fact that fandom spreads negativity about every character who disagrees with Dany and Jon and since more and more characters are disagreeing with them there is more and more negativity. Fans refuse to consider why Sansa, Arya, Sam, Lyanna, Tyrion and the rest could have legitimate reasons to disagree with them.

If someone questions anything Jon and Dany did, they deserve to die, because that clearly shows that the only way to defeat AOTD is to blindly follow whatever Dany and Jon say and it is not allowed to question them. Everyone should just shut up and listen to them and AOTD is coming so no one has any right to act like normal human.

They deserve to die? Really?  🙄🙄🙄 whoever says that is ridiculous.  The fact is that the AOTD is approaching, and what is pissing fans off is the shit that is being given to Dany. She doesn’t deserve it. Does Sansa and the North deserve to be annoyed? YES. Should they be pissed off that they chose a King and he just gave his crown to someone else? HELL YES! That’s fucked up . But they should be pissed at JON. And work it out after the bigger threat is defeated.  Not antagonize the very friendly woman , who is coming to help them with two armies and two dragons!!!!! That’s what’s upsetting. So her dad sucks. So what??? 

Lord Glover made a very specific point in season 6 when he refused to back Jon and Sansa against the Bolton’s. He said , “ where were the Starks when Greyjoy’s took over my castle and killed my family?” Or whatever...I’m just paraphrasing. Someone can find the exact words. He also said that the Bolton’s helped him get rid of the Greyjoy’s. 

So the North didn’t seem to care in season 6 who ruled them. They were mad at Robb for marrying Talisa and losing the war, and  grateful for Robb’s KILLERS for helping them take back their homes . 🤦🏻‍♀️They didn’t care at all about independence under the Bolton rule. Only lady Mormont did. 

So this sudden aversion to Dany, who is coming with Dragons, and armies, to HELP them, during a literal apocalypse,  is annoying and hypocritical . Plus, it seems to be egged on by Sansa, who just comes  across as jealous and bitchy. So yes, we are pissed!

So....how  are Dany and Jon fans the bad guys?

Edited April 12, 2019 by GraceK

[nikma]

And why would the North care what Dany deserves? Coming to help in politics means nothing. Tyrells helped the Lannisters, LF helped the Boltons, Boltons helped Glovers,... And still there was no love between them. There is no reason why should anyone trust Daenerys. Or love her. Yet.

It's not true that North didn't care who ruled in S6. They were afraid, or tired, or they didn't have confidence in Sansa and Jon. But they didn't like the Boltons.

Edited April 12, 2019 by nikma

[tangerine95]

57 minutes ago, GraceK said:

🙄🙄🙄🙄 I am tired of this  “ Danys fangirl “ reaction. Who is Danys fangirl? When did this become a thing? This long off season has really , really upped the toxic propaganda against Daenarys character.  People all of a sudden act like you meet her and just fall at her feet. No. That’s not true. In show, and in book, she is very controversial and Not liked . The only people who are devoted to her are the slaves she has freed, which makes sense, Jorah, who book wise is creepy and obsessive,  and....who else? On the show, her best friend Doreah betrayed her and killed her Dothraki handmaiden, Jorah who has witnessed her giving birth to dragons so yeah he’s obviously a believer, Missandei who she saved and loves as a friend, and Daario who she left behind. Greyworm is loyal to her because she freed him and introduced to him to Missandei.  Tyrion loves her because she gives him the respect he has craved his entire life, and according to d and d, seeing her take off on Drogon in season 5 was like a religious experience for him. 

Jon loves her because she is his counterpart. She rushes into danger to help other people. Their journeys have been parallel. The difference between them is that she is more ruthless. She is a little bit stronger. Why is that a bad thing? They are the perfect balance.

Everyone is creaming their panties over how badass Sansa is for storing grain , and feeding Ramsey to his dogs, and taking control of her life . She has literally, in canon, betrayed her family, lied to Jon, trusted Littlefinger until the very last second of season 7, given interviews about how she will STILL go behind Jons back in season 8 and tear her family apart, admitted she admires Cersei, and has basically been used as shit stirrer and conflict lightning bolt since season 6, but yet all anyone ever talks about is how evil Dany is , and how Sansa is completely JUSTIFIED in all her bullshit????? While Daenarys has literally been on a trajectory of trying to make the world a better place for years??? 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️

Dany has been raped, abused, on the run her whole LIFE. She has been powerless, ashamed, beaten, poor, abused. That was her entire life. This argument that she has dragons and hasn’t suffered enough in comparison to Sansa and the Starks is bullshit. Sansa was born a lady and noble and was pampered and adored since birth. She only suffered a few years since her family fell. And now she’s on top again. Dany is royalty and her whole family was murdered and her WHOLE life was spent on the run, poor and destitute. She was sold to a warlord at 13 and was raped ( it was her own cunning that let   her make Drogo love her, and let herself love him ) she was abused by her brother and it was her own strength  and determination, after losing her BABY that had her walk into FLAMES and birth DRAGONS. Jesus. People act like things just fell into her pretty little lap. Uh no.. actually, that’s Sansa. If Littlefinger wasnt so obsessed with her, she would be dead already. I am so tired of this anti Dany propaganda. 

Yeah I really agree.People act like it's either worship Dany which is the unreasonable reaction or hate her so much they go behind Jon's back and plot against her while she's helping which is understandable lol.I feel like something in between would have been the more human and reasonable reaction.The way the interviews make it sound is so over the top imo.

[GraceK]

Also, I’m annoyed at Sam. Why?  First off, he has every single right to be upset over his families death. But let’s look at some receipts?

Season 5:: Jon becomes commander of the nights watch.  He needs to ask every noble house for men.  He doesn’t want to ask Roose Bolton because he literally stabbed Robb Stark in the heart.

What does Sam say? “Jon, you have too, your lord commander, your neutral, you can’t let personal shit get in the  way of the greater good. We need more men.  

( not  sure exact words, Basic gist, Jon listens to him)

Olly tells Sam about the Wildings EATING his mother and father . He feels so upset that Jon makes him his steward.

Sam says that’s it’s more important to FOCUS ON THE BIGGER PICTURE. Screw your feelings, Olly, it’s the greater good that matters. Olly ends up killing Jon and Jon ends up killing this little boy IN REVENGE, which no one talks about. 

Season 8:: Sams xenophobic dad and idiot brother die for betraying their Leige lord and refusing surrender.

Sam:: This means revenge !!’

like, what a hypocrite!!!!

Edited April 12, 2019 by GraceK

[cambridgeguy]

23 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Sam:: This means revenge !!’

like, what a hypocrite!!!!

It's much, much easier to be pragmatic when it's not your loved ones who ended up dying.   There's a reason why the victims and their loved ones don't get to decide on the punishment for criminals. 

Consider Jon, heir to the the Ned Stark title of most honorable man in Westeros.  He went off on a solo suicide charge towards an entire damned army when Rickon was killed - don't you think he'd tell anyone that this is the action of the world's biggest fool?  Jon also beat Ramsey to a pulp - do you think he'd tell his soldiers that you should absolutely pulverize an enemy instead of either killing him quickly or just knocking him out?  Plus, as mentioned previously he was OK with Sansa feeding him to the dogs. 

[Happy Harpy]

1 hour ago, nikma said:

I don't hate Dany, I just criticized the fact that fandom spreads negativity about every character who disagrees with Dany and Jon and since more and more characters are disagreeing with them there is more and more negativity. Fans refuse to consider why Sansa, Arya, Sam, Lyanna, Tyrion and the rest could have legitimate reasons to disagree with them.

If someone questions anything Jon and Dany did, they deserve to die, because that clearly shows that the only way to defeat AOTD is to blindly follow whatever Dany and Jon say and it is not allowed to question them. Everyone should just shut up and listen to them and AOTD is coming so no one has any right to act like normal human.

It isn't questioning Jon or Dany that annoys me, it's questioning them for stupid reasons an worse, acting stupid because of it.

One example. Sam has the right to mourn his brother (whom he was estranged from in S6, but I digress). He has the right to be shocked and resentful. He reveals his parentage to Jon at least in part out of resent towards Daenerys? It's being a shitty friend here, but it's human indeed. Understandable. On the other hand, by pushing  (even in private) Jon to renege on his pledge to Daenerys, by pushing him on the throne even after Jon reiterates that Dany is his queen, he creates a rift in the alliance and political unrest whereas he saw the AOTD and knows the gravity of the threat. I can't approve of that.

It's the same for Sansa, the Northern lords, even Arya etc. well, almost, since they don't even have a personal beef against Daenerys. Wariness is understandable, giving the cold shoulder vs good will not nice and certainly not smart, but human or expected...as long as it doesn't have political consequences because unity, on the other hand, is paramount. The alliance is paramount. Not everybody has to be happy about it, but I expect everybody to make do and wait until the invasion is dealt with. My problem isn't the character, it's the stance they adopt, their reasons, their motivations. Arya is my favorite character and has always been, over Jon and Daenerys, but if she adopts the naysayers' shortsighted POV I won't be on her side. Simple as that.

As for "they deserve to die". According to Frikidoctor, it's said again during the Northern assembly in 8x01 that the North can't withstand the invasion alone. Their survival chances are of zero, yet the Northern lords are looking a gift horse in the mouth. This is what makes them TSTL to me, not the fact they don't like Daenerys (as a "person", if I can say so).

Edited April 12, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, GraceK said:

Also, I’m annoyed at Sam. Why?  First off, he has every single right to be upset over his families death. But let’s look at some receipts?

Season 5:: Jon becomes commander of the nights watch.  He needs to ask every noble house for men.  He doesn’t want to ask Roose Bolton because he literally stabbed Robb Stark in the heart.

What does Sam say? “Jon, you have too, your lord commander, your neutral, you can’t let personal shit get in the  way of the greater good. We need more men.  

( not  sure exact words, Basic gist, Jon listens to him)

Olly tells Sam about the Wildings EATING his mother and father . He feels so upset that Jon makes him his steward.

Sam says that’s it’s more important to FOCUS ON THE BIGGER PICTURE. Screw your feelings, Olly, it’s the greater good that matters. Olly ends up killing Jon and Jon ends up killing this little boy IN REVENGE, which no one talks about. 

Season 8:: Sams xenophobic dad and idiot brother die for betraying their Leige lord and refusing surrender.

Sam:: This means revenge !!’

like, what a hypocrite!!!!

Sam's reaction is very human and very realistic to me. As for claims of hypocrisy, Olly and Jon had had some time to process their feelings when Sam told them to get over it. Sam just found out. Maybe give him a second before writing him off as a hypocrite.

No matter how he felt about his horrible father and his douchebag brother, they're still his family. Only a heartless person would be able to shove feelings aside that quickly in favour of the bigger picture, and Sam has never been lacking in heart. I don't know that it really matters that Randyll was an abusive, xenophobic piece of shit; Tyrion murdered his own garbage father and he's still super fucked up about his father's death. Your father's death is not something you just get over immediately, especially if it happens under violent circumstances. Nor does it matter in my opinion that Dickon was kind of a douchebag and pretty much asked Dany to kill him; that's not something Sam is going to be able to forget about overnight.

[Minneapple]

1 hour ago, Happy Harpy said:

It isn't questioning Jon or Dany that annoys me, it's questioning them for stupid reasons an worse, acting stupid because of it.

One example. Sam has the right to mourn his brother (whom he was estranged from in S6, but I digress). He has the right to be shocked and resentful. He reveals his parentage to Jon at least in part out of resent towards Daenerys? 

From what we know,  it seems Sam was already going to reveal the news to Jon. Anyway, Jon deserves to know. Maybe you could argue that Sam shouldn't push Jon to be king, but the parental reveal is fair.

Also, I have said this before. This is why I hate apocalypse storylines: they put plot front and center and make character worthless. So anything that isn't 100 percent about the apocalypse, any kind of character development or drama, is questioned. Jon and Dany dragonriding, Sansa and Arya questioning Dany. Nope, not allowed to happen. Everything has to be about the plot, which makes for a weaker story. 

[Colorful Mess]

If the author called Dany and the Others the two threats facing Westeros--that almost everyone in Westeros is blind to--I am siding with Sam and Sansa. These don't sound like personal grudges or prejudices. They're not blind to the threat Dany poses, they see her for what she is, a conqueror. That's only being held at bay because of Jon's introduction to her storyline. 

[GrailKing]

Posted by

u/Atartsisyl

3 hours ago

French tvguide episodes descriptions ep1&2 (no titles)

Sorry if it has already been posted. Zero new information here 😞

EDIT: source

EP1 SYNOPSIS:

La lutte pour le trône de fer touche à sa fin alors que les Marcheurs blancs ont franchi le mur au Nord et pénétré dans Westeros. Pendant ce temps, Jon Snow et Daenerys Targaryen et leur entourage arrivent à Winterfell...

The fight for the iron throne ends as the White Walkers cross the wall to the north and enter Westeros. Meanwhile, Jon Snow and Daenerys Targaryen and their entourage arrive in Winterfell ...

EP2 SYNOPSIS:

Jon Snow et Daenerys rassemblent leurs troupes avant la confrontation avec l'armée des morts. La terrible menace met en péril toutes les civilisations au sud du Mur...

Jon Snow and Daenerys gather their troops before the confrontation with the army of the dead. The terrible threat endangers all civilizations south of the Wall ...

[SimoneS]

What is the big secrecy about the episode titles? HBO is milking this for all it is worth.

[BadAssRobinArryn]

2 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

What is the big secrecy about the episode titles? HBO is milking this for all it is worth.

Especially because they could simply Chose Episode titles that don't give too much away.

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, Advance35 said:

Have there been any spoilers, that Sansa is going to work to disrupt the alliance?  From my understanding, she just pissed.  

The fact that the only plot point (other than the 8x03 battle) that the cast members seem willing to discuss in any detail is Sansa's dislike of Dany speaks volumes about just how important it is to S8, in my opinion. They haven't even released the episode title for 8x01, but they can't shut up about how much Sansa distrusts and dislikes Dany?

Quote

That's the impression some can give.  Shrugs.  I get where Sansa is coming from, so that's all that matters to me.  I would like the show to retain some of the realism that made it so compelling for Seasons 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6.   For me, that was the root of human drama.  

It's very easy, dramatically, to write plots where the heroes are pitted against sneering, sociopathic villains to get the audience to root for them to triumph. GOT/ASOIAF is often very simplistic in that way, with ridiculously evil characters: Joffrey, Ramsay, Cersei in the books (in the show she's more nuanced but still very villainous), all the cartoonishly abusive fathers, the various monsters populating Arya and Dany's stories, etc. What's much more difficult but much richer and more interesting in my opinion is to build up compelling, sympathetic characters on both sides of the equation who have good or at least understandable reasons to feel and act the way that they do and have equally good reasons to come into conflict.

Sam vs. Dany is a good example of this richer kind of drama, in my opinion. Dany had understandable reasons for executing the Tarlys. Sam has understandable reasons for not reacting to that information particularly well and urging Jon to be king. Noble heroes taking down horrible villains isn't good drama; any idiot can write that. Putting two sympathetic, compelling characters in realistic conflict with each other is the good stuff. GOT needs more of that, not less.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Eyes High

[bubble sparkly]

26 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

The fact that the only plot point (other than the 8x03 battle) that the cast members seem willing to discuss in any detail is Sansa's dislike of Dany speaks volumes about just how important it is to S8, in my opinion. They haven't even released the episode title for 8x01, but they can't shut up about how much Sansa distrusts and dislikes Dany?

I swear, with how much press this whole “Sansa hates Dany” thing is getting, I am half expecting Dany and Sansa to end the series as ultimate BFFs with Sansa making Dany’s wedding dress and  calling her “sister”. It feels like 80% of the cast media stuff over the past few weeks has been about the feud.

[SimoneS]

42 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

EP2 SYNOPSIS:

Jon Snow et Daenerys rassemblent leurs troupes avant la confrontation avec l'armée des morts. La terrible menace met en péril toutes les civilisations au sud du Mur...

Jon Snow and Daenerys gather their troops before the confrontation with the army of the dead. The terrible threat endangers all civilizations south of the Wall ...

This supports the leak that Jon and Dany head out to meet the NK leaving Winterfell vulnerable, but they now know that Cersei isn't sending her army and that she has hired the GC.

[Advance35]

Quote

The fact that the only plot point (other than the 8x03 battle) that the cast members seem willing to discuss in any detail is Sansa's dislike of Dany speaks volumes about just how important it is to S8, in my opinion. They haven't even released the episode title for 8x01, but they can't shut up about how much Sansa distrusts and dislikes Dany?

But with this season's level of secrecy and the recent news that decoy scenes were filmed, I'm not surprised the cast has been quarantined to certain talking points.  I don't think we'll see Cersei and Margaery Part II.  Sansa's pissed because she's been kicked down the power latter, Dany now owns the North, so ultimately won't care about the sour (and mostly powerless) redhead glaring at her, then the AOD hits at 8x03. 

Whether Sansa makes it through that, is something I'm still not convinced of.  Again, once I found out they filmed decoy scenes, I questioned every spoiler we ever received.  This "feud" could die, literally, in episode 3.  Sansa dying, powerless and resentful would be bitter but that's life in Westeros.

IF she makes it past the fall of Winterfell, she'll be jealous of Dany's power but will get in line (or be put there by Jon, Tyrion or one of the others) and that will be that.

[Eyes High]

22 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

I swear, with how much press this whole “Sansa hates Dany” thing is getting, I am half expecting Dany and Sansa to end the series as ultimate BFFs with Sansa making Dany’s wedding dress and  calling her “sister”. It feels like 80% of the cast media stuff over the past few weeks has been about the feud.

It is 80%, and the other 20% is about the Battle of Winterfell.

16 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

This supports the leak that Jon and Dany head out to meet the NK leaving Winterfell vulnerable, but they now know that Cersei isn't sending her army and that she has hired the GC.

They have to have some plot reason that Team Stargaryen doesn't just have Bran see the attacking forces coming a mile away and have Jon and Dany roast them with the dragons. It seems insane to me that they have an omniscient wizard god and two dragons and they let not one army but two (assuming the Lannister forces attack as well) get within striking distance of Winterfell, but that has to be what happens for the Winterfell battle to happen, right? Maybe Jon and Dany head out on the dragons and the attack happens while they're vulnerable, although again you'd think Bran would give them a heads-up before letting them fly off.