Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[GrailKing]

Lady Mormont's Speech !??

[–]Mr_Freeload [score hidden] 22 minutes ago 

About how he bent the knee after they all supported him to be king of the north. She felt betrayed.

Says it all in front of Danyerys

Danny's not happy face in great hall, I take it.

[Minneapple]

Lol at Sansa's burn on Tyrion.

I'm excited for the Arya/Gendry scene.

Other tidbits:

Apparently according to this poster, the episode ends on Jaime and Bran meeting for the first time since episode 1.

Jon riding the dragon before he knows he's a Targ seems weird. Like "hey let me just get on this dragon and go for a ride for no apparent reason other than it will make a really great visual for those watching at home in Ultra 4K HD!"

Sam seems to really be pushing for Jon to be king ahead of Dany.

I see they will beat everyone over the head with how none of the Northerners want Dany there.

Edited April 4, 2019 by Minneapple

[glowbug]

Ending on Jaime and Bran is a call back to the first episode of season one, which ends with Jaime pushing Bran out the window. One of many callbacks it seems. 

[tangerine95]

Jon riding a dragon seems even stranger than I expected,like the way it happens.The way this person described it it's like they want to go make out,Dany says just get on the dragon and that's it lol.I mean don't mind tbh,but I figured if they weren't going to mention needing Targ blood,at least they'll go with Rheagal needs a rider to not get killed.It's cute that Jon seems to like it so much.

[GrailKing]

What happens in Bronn's scene?

[–]Mr_Freeload [score hidden] 33 minutes ago 

Bronn gets offered a ton of money to go kill Jamie and Tyrion

Who offers him the money?

[–]Mr_Freeload [score hidden] 29 minutes ago 

Qyburn at the request of Cersie

Tyrion's triply fucked if this is true, and Cersei makes Jaime an enemy,

Edited April 4, 2019 by GrailKing

[WindyNights]

Lmao at some of these things.

Which reunion was better Jon and Sansa's or Jon and Arya's?

Leaker: Jon and Sansa. It was more emotional. They’re all in a better place when Jon and Arya meet

-------

Dying to know Jon’s reaction to the news! Confused? Upset? Grossed out? Disbelief?

Leaker: He was in disbelief at first.

Then said Danyerys is the true queen.

Sam reminds him, he (Jon) bent the knee for his people so she will do the same for him. He seems to take that well

----

Describe Dany and Jorahs scene in the library with Sam

Leaker: Emotional AF. Sam with A+ acting. 

He asks for pardon for stealing books from the citadel and his father’s sword. She asks if his father is Randall. He says yes and then she confesses to executing him after his refusal to bend the knee. 

Sam is visibly upset and jokes to Dany about atleasy being able to go home to visit with Dickon as head of the house. Dany says he kills him. At this point Sam is balling, he excuses himself.

[GrailKing]

4 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

Lmao at some of these things.

Your laughing at the reactors ?

I guess they expected Arya to stay that little girl.

I expect Sam to be emotional over Dickon, the theft of books; they did say we have some comic relief.

[Statman]

1 hour ago, GrailKing said:

Yet Friki left it out. Per FF

So Friki apparently got 99% of it right and you bitch about the one thing that likely got moved during the editing process? 

Okay. Your standards are much higher than mine. 

[GrailKing]

1 minute ago, Statman said:

So Friki apparently got 99% of it right and you bitch about the one thing that likely got moved during the editing process? 

Okay. Your standards are much higher than mine. 

I'm not bitching, just repeated what the FF stated.

[SimoneS]

No dialogue in the Jaime/Bran scene. There is speculation that Friki's leaks might come from someone who translates the dialogue which is might explain why he didn't know Jaime was in the episode.

Quote

What's the Jaime and Bran reunion like?

Mr_Freeload: Episode cuts off within seconds of their eye contact

No interactions with anybody else. He gets off his horse and then the eye contact

Jaime comes through the open gates. Bran is just hanging out in his wheelchair starring at people, in the snow, per usual.

Jamie knows who he is

Edited April 4, 2019 by SimoneS

[SimoneS]

Quote

Jon and Bran Reunion... What's it like ?

Mr_Freeload: Bran is ice cold so it’s exactly how you’d picture it. Unsatisfying

Did he tell Dany about Viserion ?

Mr_Freeload: Yes

How did Jon and Dany react to the Viserion news?

Mr_Freeload:

They rushed over that scene. She was shocked but not shocked enough

[GrailKing]

Sansa snarks Tyrion, so it may be that scroll will just put a final nail in his coffin ?

Between Bronn and Cersei he's dead dwarf walking.

[SimoneS]

This whole thing with Jon claiming he wouldn't have burnt the Tarlys really annoys me. Jon executed a child along men who betrayed him. I don't like the misogyny implicit in the story at all.

[ElizaD]

I actually love that Sansa burn. Unlike some of the lines they've given her in a failed attempt to show her wit (ugh, the S5 stuff), this one works. Sansa thought well of Tyrion, but now he's either a traitor or a Hand who genuinely and utterly failed to see the danger of Cersei, which Sansa more than any other character has emphasized since S7. In this case she truly is about to be shown to be correct in her judgment. And the line is also about Sansa herself, being disillusioned that she once again misjudged someone. It's still possible that it's only about her perception of Tyrion's intelligence taking a hit. But if there is a betrayal, this does potentially set up a season that Sansa begins by adding him to the list of people she's suspicious of and concludes by providing that scroll as evidence of betrayal.

Right now the only redemption I see for Tyrion's string of political failures is to be instrumental in Cersei's defeat. If he's just sad in the background after her treachery is revealed, ending the show as Hand would feel damn weird.

The Bronn stuff could just be an excuse to get the actor away from Lena Headey's plot so that he has characters he can actually interact with. Book Bronn might take the money if he believed it was worth the risk, but Show Bronn has been such a bro that it would be strange to see him turn traitor, though much of the audience would find it sad if he died with some bitter last words about how he'd served for eight seasons and nothing he did ever got him his castle.

[tangerine95]

The Sam thing gets more and more annoying imo.Not really the fact that he's upset,that scene with Dany sounds good.But the reveal with Jon I'm honestly not getting.Apparently he tells Jon who is shocked because he didn't know.Then asks him if he'd do that and Jon says no but he's not king which is when Sam tells him he is which sounds like the worst way to break this to Jon.First I think it's stupid to say that when neither was there and Dany doesn't seem to tell Sam the details.If Jon had a enemy soldier who insulted him and refused every option given and another enemy soldier who wanted to die as well and wouldn't reconsider when asked to then he wouldn't execute them.I seriously doubt that considering Jon killed a man for refusing an order and wouldn't show mercy even when the guy begged.

Then the idea that Jon bent the knee for his people so Dany will bend the knee to him because he's a Targ?Jon basically says when they first meet that he doesn't care about her father or her claim but now she's supposed to bend the knee for his.I really hope Dany doesn't do that.He bend the knee because she literally lost a dragon to save him and his men.

Edited April 4, 2019 by tangerine95

[GrailKing]

2 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

This whole thing with Jon claiming he wouldn't have burnt the Tarlys really annoys me. Jon executed a child along men who betrayed him. I don't like the misogyny implicit in the story at all.

Well leaker said; Jon wouldn't do it, but Jon adds he's not  king and Sam hits him with but you are.

SOooooo Jon takes Tyrion's head ?

Tyrion is soooooo fucked.

[GrailKing]

Better view.

FYI: Kit has a Direwolf by his name this episode credits.

Edited April 4, 2019 by GrailKing

[GrailKing]

[whoknowswho]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

This whole thing with Jon claiming he wouldn't have burnt the Tarlys really annoys me. Jon executed a child along men who betrayed him. I don't like the misogyny implicit in the story at all.

Slight difference--Jon executed a traitorous boy who PLUNGED a knife in his heart, killing him. Daenerys murdered 2 soldiers who refused to kneel.They had done nothing to her.

[Happy Harpy]

6 minutes ago, whoknowswho said:

Slight difference--Jon executed a traitorous boy who PLUNGED a knife in his heart, killing him.

Janos Slynt, whom Jon executed for refusing to bow to his authority, says hi.

Gendry x Arya, I'm so here for it.

I'm looking forward to the Northern idiots being wiped out (but those who aren't TSTL). 

[anamika]

So Jon's reunion with Arya is a very short scene where they exchange some words about their swords, Bran is icy as usual, there is no Ghost  and Sam makes Jon's parentage about himself and his anger at Dany. I expected nothing less from D&D. At this point it's a whole lot of manufactured drama and big spectacle.

Dany not being allowed to speak and getting blamed for doing the same things that all the male characters have done.... As people have mentioned above, Jon has cut off heads and hanged people and just last season very clearly stated to Sansa that the punishment for treason was death. The Tarlys were traitors. So what would Jon have done differently?

Anyways the show seems to want to make the Tarly burnings an issue - I guess this is about Jon calming down impulsive Dany's womenly urges to burn people or something like that.

I really do hope that there is some twist with Tyrion coming down the road. To see the smartest character in the books reduced to getting his intelligence disparaged by Sansa.... Sad.

[Happy Harpy]

6 minutes ago, anamika said:

So Jon's reunion with Arya is a very short scene where they exchange some words about their swords

I'll wait before judging the reunion. It's very subjective, and a short scene can carry a different emotional load depending on how deeply one is involved in a character or a relationship. Real closeness doesn't need much. Arya not throwing Needle was short, and yet, the feels.

[anamika]

1 hour ago, Happy Harpy said:

I'll wait before judging the reunion. It's very subjective, and a short scene can carry a different emotional load depending on how deeply one is involved in a character or a relationship. Real closeness doesn't need much. Arya not throwing Needle was short, and yet, the feels.

I don't think there will be much to it. This is D&D - Jon and Arya will hug, make some jokes about their swords and then we will move on the more important issue of the Tarly burnings.

Jon randomly riding Rhaegal is what D&D think is more important to show once Jon gets to WF than him meeting up with his direwolf who is described as being part of him in the books. I am pretty sure Ghost will just show up in episode 3, kill some wights and die.

The close relationships that these characters have in the books has no relevance for D&D or the story they want to tell with the characters they have written.

Don't expect more. You will be disappointed.

Edited April 4, 2019 by anamika

[tangerine95]

I'm just  disappointed about them making the Tarly stuff important in this way.No even just because of the hypocrisy or misogynistic undertones but also because the moment of Jon parentage is huge and it sounds like they're gonna center it around two pretty much irrelevant characters overall and Sam's anger at Dany.I have  zero worry about it blowing over and getting resolved with Jon and Dany remaining allies and a couple,Sam accepting Dany by the end but imo it should have never been used for this drama because it can't carry and justify it logically.

[nikma]

4 hours ago, GrailKing said:

Tyrion's FUCKED !

As I said, it is nonsense to claim that the show want us to think that Tyrion is a good Hand. They wrote him as a failure.

So either Friki is right, and this is set up for his death, or he will have some major redemption in the next 5 episodes.

And I think Friki is right.

[nikma]

D&D always fuck David Hill over by giving him these short episodes where a lot of things need to happen.

And I really like how he cares about these little details(Coin Tyrion gave Jorah, the fact that Sam stole sword from his father and so on) but they never gave him enough time.

[Happy Harpy]

1 hour ago, tangerine95 said:

I'm just  disappointed about them making the Tarly stuff important in this way.No even just because of the hypocrisy or misogynistic undertones but also because the moment of Jon parentage is huge and it sounds like they're gonna center it around two pretty much irrelevant characters overall and Sam's anger at Dany.I have  zero worry about it blowing over and getting resolved with Jon and Dany remaining allies and a couple,Sam accepting Dany by the end but imo it should have never been used for this drama because it can't carry and justify it logically.

I understand, this storyline tries my patience, too. That said, it was the mountain made out of a mole hill last season + Dickon's personality change, so the possibility was always there. It (since it's linked to and includes Tyrion's snowflakation) was my only real problem with S7 (YMMV) but I guess, unlike what they did with some elements that didn't work in some previous seasons, they couldn't change this one. On the one hand, this drama is artificial and it's annoying as hell but on the other hand, it means that they can't create real drama about Jon's parentage or Mad Kweeen Dany.

2 hours ago, anamika said:

Don't expect more. You will be disappointed.

Friki and the reddit poster who was at the premiere have expressed quite different views about the Arya/Jon scene. I don't expect marvels, but I'll wait until I see it to make my own opinion 🙂

[BadAssRobinArryn]

Didn't BoatSexbaby say, that Tormund dies protecting Ned Umber and Alys Karstark? This can't be true now. Maybe Tormund is just saving Alys? Or am I mixing up the leaks?

[Happy Harpy]

4 minutes ago, BadAssRobinArryn said:

Or am I mixing up the leaks?

Maybe. IIRC, BSB only had info about the Seville shooting.

[nikma]

I think it would be horrible writing if they ignored the fact that Dany killed Sam's brother and father when they meet. 

[SimoneS]

4 hours ago, whoknowswho said:

Slight difference--Jon executed a traitorous boy who PLUNGED a knife in his heart, killing him. Daenerys murdered 2 soldiers who refused to kneel.They had done nothing to her.

The Tarlys allied with Dany's enemies, killed Dany's vassals, and refused to bend the knee when she gave them a chance to survive. Killing Olenna and her soldiers was the equivalent of inflicting grievous harm to Dany because they swore oaths to loyalty to Dany in return for her protection and loyalty. She has a duty to get justice for The Tyrells, yet she tried to spare the Tarlys who were determined to die for their egos. Unlike Jon who never gave a thought to sparing Ollie, an angry child whose parents were murdered, while he spared Mellisandre who burnt Shireeen alive. 

How many times?! Good grief.

Edited April 4, 2019 by SimoneS

[SimoneS]

3 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

Janos Slynt, whom Jon executed for refusing to bow to his authority, says hi.

IKR. It is convenient how no one wails about Jon decapitating Slynt for refusing to accept him as Lord Commander. Unlike the Tarlys, Slynt didn't kill anyone. He was just a weak coward. 

[bubble sparkly]

For me, it's not that Sam is upset about his idiot father and brother, it's this insane double standard that seems to only apply to Dany.  According to the leaks, Sam flat out says that Jon should be king because he would never have done what Dany did to to the Tarlys.  As has been pointed out above, Jon was fine with executing Janos Slynt for the egregious crime of not following orders.  He also executed Olly, a child likely suffering PTSD from watching his parents get murdered by wildlings. Jon also nearly beat Ramsay to death with his bare hands, then stopped himself and allowed Sansa to feed the guy to dogs.

Jon is a good dude, but the idea that he is some anti-violence pacifist compared to Violent Murderous Dany is ludicrous. Jon has showed time and time again that he is willing to kill people if he believes it is deserved.  Also, the Ramsay situation showed that he did not have a problem with killing a prisoner of war who had committed serious crimes.  The Tarlys were prisoners of war who committed treason and murder, so it is a similar situation.

[YaddaYadda]

10 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

IKR. It is convenient how no one wails about Jon decapitating Slynt for refusing to accept him as Lord Commander. Unlike the Tarlys, Slynt didn't kill anyone. He was just a weak coward. 

Unless I misread the line (and I did go through things quickly) the line is "burned". Him saying he wouldn't have burned the Tarlys doesn't mean he wouldn't have executed them. Jon does his own killing, that's what he was taught, so I don't see him doing it the way Dany did.

The parentage reveal sounds like a dud and I'm not impressed with him riding Rhaegal before knowing he can. People were burned and killed by those suckers when they tried to ride them. The Princess and the Queen has been out for years.

And it feels like it's happening too quickly.

[bubble sparkly]

Another thing that annoys me is how there's this idea that Dany should never use her dragons...apart from when other people tell her she should.  Apparently using them to kill traitors is out.  Yet Jon was actively recruiting Dany's dragons in the fight against the dead, so it seems it's fine for her to burn wights (do we know if they can feel pain like humans can?)  Then we get the the battle in 8x03.  If the Lannisters and the GC attack WF will Sam, Jon and the Northerners want Dany to saddle up the dragons and attack the opposing army?  Or will they tell her to take the dragon and stay away, and make her promise not to burn any humans even if the Lannisters/GC kill every human in WF?  If a Lannister soldier corners Gilly and Dany had the opportunity to save Gilly and kill the soldier with dragonfire, I somehow don't think Sam would be opposed to the dragons be used as weapons in this scenario.

[Pestilentia]

Quote

This whole thing with Jon claiming he wouldn't have burnt the Tarlys really annoys me. Jon executed a child along men who betrayed him. I don't like the misogyny implicit in the story at all. 

Yes, but when Stannis captured Mance Jon's suggestion as to how to proceed was "Take him captive and question him" not kill him on the spot. It's not as if Jon kills as a knee jerk reaction and Dany does have a bit of tendency toward that reactive sort of retribution. It's the thin line between justice and revenge. I'm reminded of the old adage "When the only tool you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail," Our deep dislike about how Dany is judged is just a fundamental dissatisfaction with the world in which the events take place. Cry to heaven indeed, but life is not fair and while women are held to a different standard Dany does look to me like a bit of a hothead. We can't take the easy road of blaming misogyny when there is a true fundamental difference in how she handle situations. She's always  needed a voice of reason standing beside her to help her pause and see the bigger picture.

34 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Slynt didn't kill anyone.

All the dead Baratheon bastards beg to disagree. Not in Jon's thoughts of course but he was a murderous man.

Edited April 4, 2019 by Pestilentia

[SeanC]

7 hours ago, WindyNights said:

Describe Dany and Jorahs scene in the library with Sam

Leaker: Emotional AF. Sam with A+ acting. 

He asks for pardon for stealing books from the citadel and his father’s sword. She asks if his father is Randall. He says yes and then she confesses to executing him after his refusal to bend the knee. 

Sam is visibly upset and jokes to Dany about atleasy being able to go home to visit with Dickon as head of the house. Dany says he kills him. At this point Sam is balling, he excuses himself.

I don’t doubt that this scene plays as emotional, but the bit with Dickon sounds like it should have a laugh track.

[screamin]

1 hour ago, bubble sparkly said:

For me, it's not that Sam is upset about his idiot father and brother, it's this insane double standard that seems to only apply to Dany.  According to the leaks, Sam flat out says that Jon should be king because he would never have done what Dany did to to the Tarlys.  As has been pointed out above, Jon was fine with executing Janos Slynt for the egregious crime of not following orders.  He also executed Olly, a child likely suffering PTSD from watching his parents get murdered by wildlings. Jon also nearly beat Ramsay to death with his bare hands, then stopped himself and allowed Sansa to feed the guy to dogs.

Jon is a good dude, but the idea that he is some anti-violence pacifist compared to Violent Murderous Dany is ludicrous. Jon has showed time and time again that he is willing to kill people if he believes it is deserved.  Also, the Ramsay situation showed that he did not have a problem with killing a prisoner of war who had committed serious crimes.  The Tarlys were prisoners of war who committed treason and murder, so it is a similar situation.

I think we're supposed to consider that Sam himself is not being objective or fair right now...he's too angry at Dany about his brother to look dispassionately at whether what she did was all that heinous from a non-relative's point of view. So he's weighing the scales in favor of his BFF as king, making himself believe things that aren't true to push Jon to take the power from Dany.

It's sort of a dark parallel of him pushing Jon to success in the Lord Commander election - only this time he's going to try to push him into something that's going to upset the balance between Jon and Dany. And when Jon refuses to be pushed, he's going to go around him and let the information out publicly, which will seed distrust between Dany's court and Jon's.

[nikma]

I love all this drama in E1. Lol

[cambridgeguy]

Quote

For me, it's not that Sam is upset about his idiot father and brother, it's this insane double standard that seems to only apply to Dany.  According to the leaks, Sam flat out says that Jon should be king because he would never have done what Dany did to to the Tarlys.  As has been pointed out above, Jon was fine with executing Janos Slynt for the egregious crime of not following orders.  He also executed Olly, a child likely suffering PTSD from watching his parents get murdered by wildlings. Jon also nearly beat Ramsay to death with his bare hands, then stopped himself and allowed Sansa to feed the guy to dogs.

Why is this being labeled as some sort of sexist double standard?  It would be if Dany had executed the Tarlys the old fashioned way and told one of the Dothraki to chop their heads off.  However, she had them burned alive AFTER they had surrendered.  The closest comparison would be if Jon had told Ghost to rip Janos Slynt to shreds.  You want to kill someone for treason or for refusing to bend the knee?  Fine, that's the way this world works.  That doesn't mean you should pick a method that your insane Dad would approve of.  Of course people are going to view you suspiciously after that.  That'd be true if Dany was short for Daniel too.

As for the Ramsay thing, there's a difference between someone who has opposed you in battle and someone who has raped and tortured your sister. 

[Hana Chan]

There's a lot more nuance over how Dany handled the situation with the Tallys that makes it understandable why her actions are being painted in a negative light. The whys and hows here mean a great deal. First, let me make it clear that I think she had plenty of valid reasons to do so, given that the Tallys joined with the Lannisters and betrayed the Tyrells (who they were sworn allegiance to). And it's not as if the people of Westeros wouldn't understand and accept killing out of vengeance. Sansa's killing of Ramsey was pretty understandable given what he'd done to her family and what she personally suffered.

But in the end, these were not the reasons that she executed them. She executed them because they would not accept her rulership. Had they bent the knee, she would have accepted them into her forces despite the fact that they had helped to wipe out the last of her Tyrell allies. But because they refused to accept her as queen, she executed Lord Tarly and his heir in front of his troops, basically terrorizing them into accepting her as ruler. That, unfortunately, eliminates any argument that her motives were justice or even seeking vengeance for the deaths of her allies (which most people in Westeros would probably understand and accept). And it flies in the face that Dany was going to be a different sort of ruler (given that she would easily kill those who did not immediately accept her).  This is very different from the reason that Jon was more than justified in executing the mutineers. They didn't die for attacking him personally, but for attacking and killing the Lord Commander of the Nights Watch because they disagreed with his leadership.

Another factor is how she executed them, using Drogon to burn them alive. By any standard, that was a pretty barbaric way to kill them, even if it was nearly instantaneous. And I'm not arguing that she should never use her dragons in battle, but there is a huge difference between using her greatest weapons in warfare and also as a means to execute her enemies when the battle is over. Just like using a Tomahawk missile in combat is perfectly acceptable, but using a missile to kill hostages after the battle is over would in today's world be counted as a war crime. In Dany's world, it just feeds a narrative that she is a cruel foreign invader, which will not help her in cementing control over Westeros by any means other that fear. This is why Tyrion was all but begging her in public not to kill the Tarlys and to take them hostage instead.

The third major reason why she made a huge mistake there is that Dany is still fighting to be seen as independent of her father's crimes and madness. The problem here is that the reign of King Aerys wasn't that long ago, and there are plenty of people kicking around with direct memory of his habit of burning those that offended him (like Lord Rickon Stark). Using a similar method of execution is not going to help Dany's cause with those who are already inclined to view her with suspicion because of her heritage. Killing them with dragon fire and then demanding submission from the terrorized Tarly soldiers would be more than enough for people to associate her with her father, a comparison that she cannot afford.

Dany may have her strengths as a ruler, but she also has profound weaknesses and this event is going to stand out as a glaring example that she cannot conduct herself in Westeros the way she had in the past. Not if she wants to be seen not just as the rightful ruler of Westeros, but a good ruler as well. 

Edited April 4, 2019 by Hana Chan

[Minneapple]

1 hour ago, bubble sparkly said:

Another thing that annoys me is how there's this idea that Dany should never use her dragons...apart from when other people tell her she should.  Apparently using them to kill traitors is out.  Yet Jon was actively recruiting Dany's dragons in the fight against the dead, so it seems it's fine for her to burn wights (do we know if they can feel pain like humans can?)  Then we get the the battle in 8x03.  If the Lannisters and the GC attack WF will Sam, Jon and the Northerners want Dany to saddle up the dragons and attack the opposing army?  Or will they tell her to take the dragon and stay away, and make her promise not to burn any humans even if the Lannisters/GC kill every human in WF?  If a Lannister soldier corners Gilly and Dany had the opportunity to save Gilly and kill the soldier with dragonfire, I somehow don't think Sam would be opposed to the dragons be used as weapons in this scenario.

There's a bit of a difference between using dragons in battle and using them to burn someone alive after the fact, when they're just on their knees in front of you. 

Anyway, of course Dany burning the Tarlys was going to be a big deal. She was all "TARLY TARLY TARLY I'M GOING TO BURN YOU GUYS NOW. TARLY." And then they made it a point to not tell Sam until now. 

[SimoneS]

2 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

Unless I misread the line (and I did go through things quickly) the line is "burned". Him saying he wouldn't have burned the Tarlys doesn't mean he wouldn't have executed them. Jon does his own killing, that's what he was taught, so I don't see him doing it the way Dany did.

I just don't get this at all. Dany does her own killing also. The dragons and their fire as well as her ability to control fire are her sword. 

Edited April 4, 2019 by SimoneS

[Edith]

8 hours ago, GrailKing said:

What happens in Bronn's scene?

[–]Mr_Freeload [score hidden] 33 minutes ago 

Bronn gets offered a ton of money to go kill Jamie and Tyrion

Who offers him the money?

[–]Mr_Freeload [score hidden] 29 minutes ago 

Qyburn at the request of Cersie

What, if Tyrion made a deal with Cersei, then why is she sending Bronn to kill him?

I don't understand, I know Cersei is dumb but this makes no sense..

[anamika]

35 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

However, she had them burned alive AFTER they had surrendered.  The closest comparison would be if Jon had told Ghost to rip Janos Slynt to shreds.

So he is angry that Sansa fed a man alive to hungry dogs who ripped him apart? Why did he not execute Ramsay the proper way instead of giving him to Sansa to feed to starving dogs? 

Jon is a hypocrite if he is okay with what Sansa did and then criticizes Dany for her lawful execution of the Tarlys.

35 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

However, she had them burned alive AFTER they had surrendered. 

They did not surrender. They refused to bend the knee and openly opposed Dany.  They were traitors. 

Unlike the Tarlys, Janos Slynt begged Jon for another chance. Jon did not give him that chance and took off his head for insubordination.

All this talk about how Sansa and the North are right to distrust Dany and how they are justified in seeing Dany as the greater threat compared to the White Walkers - why are Olly and the mutineer crows not given the same allowances?

Olly's parents were brutally murdered by Wildlings.  Unlike Sansa, he's a child. If Sansa is unable to see the big picture why should we expect this child to?  And Jon executes him. No allowance or mercy there.

Finally, the dragons are Dany's weapons. If Jon has a problem with that, he should not ever use them.

Apparently Dany does not even get the chance to explain to Sam about how they refused to bend the knee and the wall before he rushes off to plot making Jon King.

But anyway, I am sure all this manufactured drama in the first two episodes will get over by episode 3 when the WW get there.

At the rate they are rushing, I get the feeling that all the big moments are going to fall flat. The dragon riding scene as described sounds just plain silly.  We will have to watch to judge but so far it sounds like season 6/7 writing.

Edited April 4, 2019 by anamika

[SimoneS]

All these arguments attempting making that Dany's actions are different than Jon's are rooted in gender stereotypes. Powerful women who are ambitious and use hard power are critiqued harshly, while men despite they bad judgement and flaws are praised. Jon executes Slynt, Ollie, and the mutineers and then decides to abandon his position as Lord Commander and betray his oath and then he runs like a hysterical fool into that battleground to confront Ramsey, yet the writers and some fans are claiming he somehow superior to Dany. I expect this from some fans, but I hoped the show would do better. Both Jon and Dany have valid rival claims to the Iron Throne, focus on that. Jon shouldn't win because he is a boy.

Bronn will most likely warn Jaime before heading off. I bet Jaime is shaken to the core. 

Edited April 4, 2019 by SimoneS

[Eyes High]

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What, if Tyrion made a deal with Cersei, then why is she sending Bronn to kill him?

I guess the simplest explanation is that Cersei is doublecrossing Tyrion the way she doublecrossed Jon and Dany by agreeing to send troops and then reneging, but I agree at first blush it doesn't make much sense for Cersei to be eliminating one of her only remaining allies, unless Cersei is a few cards short of a deck at this point.

Edd meeting up with Beric and Tormund sounds hilarious (from Mr_Freeload):

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This was pretty funny. They’re both sneaking around the castle in the dark. Suddenly they run into each other. Edd yells, “Get him! His eyes are blue”. Tormund yells “my eyes have always been blue” and then they hug

Edited April 4, 2019 by Eyes High

[anamika]

4 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Bronn will most likely warn Jaime before heading off. I bet Jaime is shaken to the core. 

Bronn is still in KL. Jaime has reached WF at the end of episode 1.

1 minute ago, Eyes High said:

Edd meeting up with Beric and Tormund sounds hilarious (from Mr_Freeload):

His description of Jon and Dany kissing and the dragons watching them also sounded like a humorous moment.

[nikma]

11 minutes ago, anamika said:

We will have to watch to judge but so far it sounds like season 6/7 writing.

 Why should they change something that brings them success? 

Edited April 4, 2019 by nikma

[SimoneS]

2 minutes ago, anamika said:

Bronn is still in KL. Jaime has reached WF at the end of episode 1.

I mean eventually during the season. Bronn has never had any illusions about Cersei. He must know that he has to "accept" her offer or risk death. Besides, I don't see Bronn sticking around to fight for Cersei. He will encounter the Lannister brothers at some point.