Season 3 Discussion

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The Times, they are a' changing!

Here's the place to discuss all the episodes of season three.

Edited May 22, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S3.E1: Mother

Quote

In the apocalypse of 2163, a desperate Cole searches for Titan. Meanwhile, a captive Railly is faced with an impossible choice as the 12 Monkeys await the arrival of The Witness.

Edited May 22, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S3.E2: Guardians

Quote

While searching for Jennifer Goines in post-WWI France, Cole and Jones encounter a dangerous group of time- travelers - the Guardians.

Edited May 22, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S3.E3: Enemy

Quote

Bonds of trust are tested when Ramse returns to the facility with an old enemy held captive. How far will Cole and Jones go for the answers they need?

S3.E4: Brothers

Quote

Ramse and Cole splinter to 2007 expecting either a trap - or a final chance to kill The Witness. But when Cole discovers a heartbreaking truth, he’ll discover that the mission was both.

Edited May 22, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S3.E5: Causality

Quote

Out of time and in need of answers, Jennifer and Deacon are sent to 1989 to steal the a sacred document. Can Railly and Cole get to the Word first before it reveals the one secret they want kept?

Edited May 22, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S3.E6: Nature

Quote

In 1953, Cole and Railly reunite with Agent Gale at the birth of the Army of the 12 Monkeys.

Edited May 22, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S3.E7: Nurture

Quote

Cole and Railly find themselves at opposite ends of an unspeakable decision. Jones grows suspicious while Railly turns to an emotional ally for advice. All hell breaks loose during a massive fire-fight.

Edited May 22, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S3.E8: Masks

Quote

Friends and enemies converge in Victorian London to await the arrival of The Witness. Cole and Railly lead their pursuers on a manhunt through time.

Edited May 22, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S3.E9: Thief

Quote

Cole and Railly finally learn the heart-breaking life story of the man who calls himself The Witness; the reason why he wants to destroy time and all reality is revealed.

Edited May 22, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S3.E10: Witness

Quote

Every imaginable threat descends upon Railly and Cole. With Titan looming - and ally fighting ally - The Witness finds himself on the threshold of destiny.

Edited May 22, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[mjc570]

Well, at least the show is consistent - Jennifer is wonderful, Ramses loses Sam, ugh, boo-hoo.  Can we reset the timeline to avoid that whole SL?

I did like everything else, but that Ramses/Sam extended scene, ugh.  I see that instead of watching in real time, I need to DVR in order to FF. 

[Chaos Theory]

Breaking it down for Cole:  Cassie is Sara Connor and Ramse is a poor man's Terminator.   Well if John Connor wanted to destroy the world.....  

[Chaos Theory]

Should a person feel special when a prison is built special for them?  

Time travel torture is fun.

I think the best line is "He had the awful ha it of creating problems he was sent to solve."  That actually describes the show in a nutshel.

i also loved the line "Playing God lacks ambition".

[Just Here]

Too much to process at one time, but...

Jennifer as an Éponine-like street urchin in 1920s France was hilarious as was her one-woman show with the classic blockbuster movie rip-offs.

The Baby Witness being in the Guardian's ark was too easy to guess ahead of the reveal, so some of the episode felt unnecessarily drawn out.

[jwc]

I love Jennifer Goines.  She is a breath of fresh air in the series.  That scene a few years ago on the lunch date was one of the best ever.  Her antics in Paris were amazing,  Just like the original movie, where Brad Pit was my favorite character, she astounds.  So glad to see he back on the team.

[Just Here]

2 hours ago, Just Here said:

Jennifer as an Éponine-like street urchin in 1920s France was hilarious

Quoting myself, because I just had a fridge (duh!) moment where I remembered that Éponine's big solo in Les Mis is "On My Own."

[bethy]

3 hours ago, lora said:

Am I the only one who enjoyed Cole meeting Cole, or Cole sending Hannah back in time after she thought she had the upper hand?

Nope. I liked both those scenes. A lot.

[bethy]

3 hours ago, lora said:

What was Cole taking about when he mentioned to Jennifer that he did/undid something before Titan.

I think he was talking about undoing his and Cassie's time together in the 50s. The red forest was closing in, and, I think Madeline Stowe's character told him what to do?

Edited May 20, 2017 by bethy

[AmeliaBedelia]

After watching four eps in a row, I'm having a hard time remembering what happened in which episode lol. I did like Cole vs. Cole. Sucks that future Cassie was like "You lied to him."

[AmeliaBedelia]

Jennifer is awesome. I hate the movie ET (like visibly get upset when I see a reference to it), but she made me laugh with all the randomness. I had the balloon song stuck in my head when I woke up.

[AmeliaBedelia]

The Deacon parts were a little boring for me because they were gross and he was isolated. But, I was glad for them because I treated them like commercial time and made snacks.

[AmeliaBedelia]

Ramse had it coming. Like Cole said, Ramse made the wrong choice every damn time. The acting was awesome. Cole managed to scream in frustration in a believable heart-wrenching but not overwrought way. So glad Cole and Cassie are in the same place and time.

[Doyounot]

Oh man the 12 monkeys play (all the plays for that matter) was awesome! Jennifer is amazing! And i loved the meta discussion about it how no one understands time travel, how they need to advertise to build an audience, and also him telling her to do the expanse and magicians instead (the other 2 syfy shows i watch and they both have a bigger audience than this)!

The scene with ramse was tough to watch hes a great actor i felt his pain i would say this part of the play is boring but he really sold it making it good. Also jennifers speech at the end was great stuff!

[bethy]

Yeah, the four in a row were hard to keep track of. So I've been forced - forced I tell you! - to start my rewatch immediately. 

I liked that while Cole's main focus was Cassie, he still also mentioned Jennifer and Ramse when he was talking about finding Titan. It's interesting, too, that Team2046 assumed everyone was in the same time, when we knew that Jennifer and Ramse weren't in 2163 at all.

Loved Katarina's concern for Cole - calling him "James" and touching his face.

I wonder if we'll see Ariana again. When out of time did she come from?

I'm very intrigued by Future Asshole - when he's from, why he's so much lighter, whether he'll have to zap himself out of existence like the horse-lady seems to. Also, sounds like he and Cassie aren't on the same page about whatever is going on or has to be done. 

[Doyounot]

I like that she has the white strand of hair just like in her death scene 2017 (which i guess is 2018 now) made me sad that she still has to die though.

[bethy]

If Ramse was 19 in 2023, then Cole was, what 12 or 13? Close to the same age as Sam, right? At least Sam in the second season. So really just one more kid to take care of.

The scene between Ramse and Sam was so well done. Until he had to kill him. Yuck. As tired as I got of Ramse's "my boy!" all the time, I liked the relationship between the two of them a lot. 

"You're the only thing in my life I don't hate myself for." Which says a lot about his relationship with Cole, I think. It makes me think of last season when Ramse told Cole he couldn't understand because he didn't have a family and Cole saying he always thought Ramse was his family. And later,

Spoiler

when Cole asks Ramse why he never trusted him and that he'd always trusted Ramse. 

In a lot of ways it seems like as much as Ramse sacrificed for Cole, he never had Cole in the same place in his heart that Cold did him. 

That hug at the end between Cole and Jennifer was everything. I know Cole and Cassie are the couple, but I love Cole and Jennifer together. Ultimately, he's always so kind to her, and she loves him. I tend to root for the kooky couples and at some point it would be nice to see the kooky girl get the boy. 

"You're not supposed to be here." The horsemen say that to Jennifer and Cole and Katarina. What does that mean I wonder about what the Witness knows and doesn't know. 

Also, no wonder the Witness is insane - he seems to have been raised in a box. 

[Thriftykins]

I'm seeing some plot holes here..... Cassandra was killed by minions of the Witness back in season 1.  It led to that alternate future where the virus got out a year earlier and everything was even worse.  So did the 12 Monkeys at the time just not realize that Cassandra was The Witness's mother?

 

I'm starting to find this show a little grating.  It's becoming like Lost or Under the Dome--one of those shows that just likes to spin up new riddles for the sake of spinning riddles.

[MostlyC]

I'm going with the whole Terminator "No Fate but what we make" so that time changes a lot and nothing is predestined.  So Ramses will somehow come back to life and everyone gets a happy ending.  LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!

I am agog by these episodes.  

[jwc]

Exactly.  I seriously doubt they will kill of Ramse.  He is one of the main 7 characters.  There is always a way.  We saw him shot and bleeding out.  But was Ramse dead?  Or will he get the Deacon treatment - rest and recuperation and then he is released into the time stream again?

I also like the traitor guy in Titan.  I think he might be doing some secret agenda work for the witness behind the main guys back.

[Jaded Sapphire]

2 minutes ago, lora said:

But Cole shot Ramse in  the back and chose someone he knows only for a few years over him. I guess Ramse is not that dear to Cole after all.

Meh, I'd have more of a problem with that if Ramse weren't willing to kill the entire world (including Cole) for a kid he knew for all of 2-ish days.

[LIFLA]

3 hours ago, Thriftykins said:

I'm seeing some plot holes here..... Cassandra was killed by minions of the Witness back in season 1.  It led to that alternate future where the virus got out a year earlier and everything was even worse.  So did the 12 Monkeys at the time just not realize that Cassandra was The Witness's mother?

I think that was their whole idea to get Cole and Cassie together so the Witness could be born? I believe the show stated that the Army of the 12 Monkeys created the plague to destroy the world. The plague allowed Cole and Cassie to find each other which they would have never done had that not happened. The whole born of two travelers outside of time thing. In order to be born outside of time they needed Cole/Cassie to time travel to defeat the plague. Kinda convoluted, but that's my take on it.

[MostlyC]

Night Two of the Epic Season Three!

 

hums "don't you forget about me..."

[mjc570]

Episode 5:  Wonderful!   Loved the caper aspect, the fact that it was so Jennifer-centric, the girl Jennifer.  I know Cole and Cassie are the alpha couple, but there just can't be enough Jennifer and Deacon.  No disrespect to Ramse lovers, but I am so glad we are (hopefully) done with him.   Deacon put it perfectly (something to the effect of selfish bastard, for a son he knew maybe 2 days).  Of course, that's what Cassie and Cole are doing, also, but at least they've never actually come out and said that their son's life is worth the death of millions (billions?). 

Speaking of plot-induced children, I really don't even  know why Hannah is the head of security.  She is whiny and has no situational awareness whatsoever. 

[dargosmydaddy]

My observations after getting caught up on the first three episodes (didn't have time to watch the fourth before trying to watch tonight live).

-Jennifer Goines is awesome.

-Cole trying to make things up to Jennifer the second time around was really sweet (and well deserved). Also loved him letting her choose when she wanted to be, and her hugging him.

-I'm starting to like Hannah, but I think I'd take her more seriously if she didn't look like a raccoon.

-It's not an official season of 12 Monkeys until Cole gets shot several times... glad we got that out of the way...

[dargosmydaddy]

Little Jennifer is as awesome as big Jennifer. Loved her ranting plan, and Alisen Down's awesome Jennifer impersonation. And Cole slamming Deacon into the bar, and both of their abilities to immediately stop fighting when Cassie came in.

[Richness]

Ramse may be blindly stupid about saving his son, but having him actually put said son out of misery was heart-wrenching. If that ripped my heart out, then the Ramse/Cole argument and gunfight to the death stomped all over my heart and set it on fire. You're cruel show. Very cruel.

 

Jennifer is great in small does, but she grates on my nerves most of the time. So with the large amount of time focused on her tonight, I'm ready to sedate her myself. It's not quite to the splinter torture level yet, but it could go there. However, I will admit that I LOVED the meta commentary about time travel being too confusing for the masses. And Jennifer's like "Not for my audience." Also, must every show do a musical number in 2017? The 99 Luftballons musical interlude was just wild and surreal. 

 

Speaking of splinter torture, that's one cold hearted bitch. I am, of course, referring to both Katarina *AND* Olivia. Katarina for getting her temporal  torture on, and Olivia for going through that and a boxed room surviving on rats. Jennifer had her pegged beautifully as someone who isn't exactly where she wants to be. She's a great villain, but I won't root for her.

 

Otherwise, I'm over all the Witness baby drama. I think we need to take a sip in the 12 Monkeys Drinking Game every time Magdalena (Really, show?) kills herself. I'm also over the Deacon resurrection, though the "Don’t You Forget About Me" singing was funny. Given who the guest star and what happens Saturday, we're gonna get our fill of the 80s. Also, seeing Katerina in WWI era hairstyle was shocking. Apparently, temporal torture doesn't allow you enough time in the grungy future to brush your frazzled hair.

[xtwheeler]

Big Jennifer's interaction with wee Jennifer (Chicken and Egg) was delightful, as was Olivia as Jennifer as Olivia. I enjoyed the Ocean's 11/caper at the auction house for some comic relief interspersed with Cole & Cassie getting to have a few quiet beats to talk about & grieve their lost happiness. 

Cassie's scenes with her mother and the slight alteration to her childhood were lovely as well. Her mother was well-cast and Cassie's compassion and bedside manner were clearly inherited along with her intelligence. 

This show (more than) occasionally does an excellent job of depicting how the relentless despair of apocalypse plus failure after failure takes its toll on the characters. Cole & Cassie in particular do a lovely job of showing the emotional cost of having finally allowed themselves to believe that they were safe in their Heart, happy, safe, in love, starting a family, only to find themselves at the epicenter at your another apocalypse within an apocalypse. 

[Doyounot]

Wow great 4th episode! I cant believe they finally went there with cole and ramse every time before i was always like there gonna find a way to make up but ramse this time did go way too far with the deception and murder also HIM trying to use the argument one for 7 billion i knew wasnt gonna work. Still i can see cole finding a way to bring him back even though ramse didnt want him to. It made me happy that cole told him he knew he just didnt want to accept it and kept giving him opportunities.

On a lighter not the bread puns! Things have gone a-rye definitely won! And all of Jennifers differend words for bullshit!

I was surprised deacon lived but him singing the song was still pretty funny. The stuff with his dad was the weakest part of the season so far to me (i didnt absolutely hate it though as the actor they cast did sort of look like him and had his mannerisms which make the end of that good stuff). Plus it was worth it so that he could help Cassie escape (damn Cassie is a badass fighting all those cult members!).

That ending though was amazing!

[LIFLA]

In episode 6 when they were in the tent with The Witness, is it just me or did he draw Cassie when they wanted to pick their 12th member? Her face was obstructed and they picked the lady in front of her who looked kinda like Cassie. Or am I just seeing things? Was Cassie meant to be a member of the Army of the 12 Monkeys?

[MostlyC]

Time to witness the last episodes.

 

 

SEASON FOUR IS A GO!!

[dirtydi]

I loved episode 5, I laughed out loud a few times.  My favorite out of the 7, so far.  Number 7 made me anxious for the rest.  Wondering what Deacon's destiny is, just like him.

[Thriftykins]

That turtle is probably going to cause the destruction of the compound.  One enormous paradox that causes a chain reaction with the time travel equipment.

I kinda hate Cole and Cassandra now for their sabotage of the mission.

4 hours ago, LIFLA said:

In episode 6 when they were in the tent with The Witness, is it just me or did he draw Cassie when they wanted to pick their 12th member? Her face was obstructed and they picked the lady in front of her who looked kinda like Cassie. Or am I just seeing things? Was Cassie meant to be a member of the Army of the 12 Monkeys?

I don't think so.  I think the woman he did draw just looked similar to Cassandra, so that's why he appeared to draw her.

[Notwisconsin]

1 hour ago, Thriftykins said:

I think the woman he did draw just looked similar to Cassandra, so that's why he appeared to draw her.

Speaking of which, was the woman who was with Chris Lloyd Jennifer?

[Notwisconsin]

On 5/20/2017 at 2:21 AM, Just Here said:

Quoting myself, because I just had a fridge (duh!) moment where I remembered that Éponine's big solo in Les Mis is "On My Own."

In the Lez Miz musical on broadway, Eponine is introduced as the pampered, wicked step-sister and ends up the tragic hero. I think that was unique in the history of literature.

[supposebly]

I'm not as excited about this show as I used to be. Mostly because I just couldn't care less about the Cassie and Cole twu luv that created a mystical baby. I hate that genre shows almost always end up with some mystical baby.

For once, I was with Ramse. After he killed his own, he could be hypocrite and go kill Cassie after he had put his son over everything. I guess it's Cole's turn to be a hypocrite. One person for billions. I guess he's done making the hard decisions. Although I can't remember him ever making those. It's too bad I just don't care about Cassie so I would be fine with dead 2007 Cassie if it prevents the apocalypse.

I'm happy we got a lot of shirtless Deacon, though! And I find Mistress Monotone a bit more interesting.

Highlight of course is Jennifer!

[Zoe]

Wow, this season ended up really great.  Loved the format too.

Can't believe we'll have to wait another year for an answer on Cole's mother. And they kept teasing us with that ancient corpse...

[Zoe]

4 hours ago, Notwisconsin said:

Speaking of which, was the woman who was with Chris Lloyd Jennifer?

She's the monkey who was paradoxing primaries. Olivia was engineered from her.

[Cthulhudrew]

17 minutes ago, Zoe said:

She's the monkey who was paradoxing primaries. Olivia was engineered from her.

That's right. She also gave birth to the Pallid Man and had a run-in with Gale back in season 2.

[Evie]

Wow! I need time to gather my thoughts and maybe do a rewatch to get a better handle on everything that happened, but I will say that this might be my favorite season or perhaps tied with season 1.

 I suspected since season 1 that Cole's mother would be connected to the story. 

I never trusted Olivia.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Evie

[Bort]

3 hours ago, supposebly said:

I find Mistress Monotone a bit more interesting.

Olivia is definitely most improved as a character. I spent the first two seasons running to the kitchen for a snack when her red forest monologues would start, because I knew I had plenty of time and I had no interest in hearing it for the umpteenth time. I really loved the scene with her and Jones smoking cigarettes in her cage.