The Brave - General Discussion

[Mars477]

Cassie the CIA Officer (thank you show for getting this straight) was pretty cool.  She had some moves, so good on the trainer and choreography team.

I agree that the team calling Dalton "Top" is annoying and unrealistic.  I don't know why he needs to be an officer in the first place, since senior NCOs can easily lead small teams. 

Some of the action and motion scenes felt a bit wonky, but I may just be spoiled (by Strike Back).  There were bits that felt considerably more Network than the pilot, but then again the pilot had more "spooks" and less "troops".

Let me second whoever said that they don't want anything to do with Dalton/Jaz.  Hello no, he's her CO.  And they have more of a big brother/little sister vibe anyways (commander/subordinate notwithstanding).  

The controller team still has yet to make a real impact on me, but it looks like the next episode is going to be all about Hannah's backstory.

Edited October 5, 2017 by Mars477

[Raja]

9 hours ago, Mars477 said:

Cassie the CIA Officer (thank you show for getting this straight) was pretty cool.  She had some moves, so good on the trainer and choreography team.

I agree that the team calling Dalton "Top" is annoying and unrealistic.  I don't know why he needs to be an officer in the first place, since senior NCOs can easily lead small teams. 

Some of the action and motion scenes felt a bit wonky, but I may just be spoiled (by Strike Back).  There were bits that felt considerably more Network than the pilot, but then again the pilot had more "spooks" and less "troops".

 

The only thing that I can figure is someone watched The Unit and heard Sergeant Grey call Sergeant Major Blane "Top" thought it sounded cool and just didn't know doing it here would be the equivalent of calling a Marine Captain "Gunny". The CIA officer had moves but the rest of the team only seem "special" in that their target falls when they shoot. The movement of most other police squads on TV and say the CBS SEAL Team just seems more practiced

[Irishmaple]

I was getting on board with his show until they had that moment near the end with Dalton and the sniper. No. That's seriously offputting. He's her team leader and she presented as a soldier with some strikes against her (mentioning he's the first CO who saw her as a sniper first) and her character doesn't need the baggage of sleeping with her CO. I can understand her developing a crush, given neither she nor I are blind and that is Mike Vogel, but he needs to shut that down and hang out with his dog.  I hope the CIA officer shows up again. I really enjoyed her competence, and I'm not taking to the woman currently working with Noah and Anne Heche.

I had reservations about taking on two special forces shows (this one and SEAL Team) but the writers and cast on both shows are doing enough to differentiate, and keep me entertained. The coincidence of both shows having supporting character canines is funny.

[Raja]

I  think the K-9s come from Zero Dark Thirty, at least in SEAL Team's case.

[Casually Observant]

Hey! Who doesn't like a dog side-kick?  Gotta love the dog. 

Add me to the NOPE on the potential romance for Dalton and Jaz.  I don't want to see it. They need to be fellow soldiers. That is exactly why people say women can't be soldiers alongside the men because of the sexual tension.

Turn this into a brother/sister relationship if you must, but nothing more!

[Casually Observant]

On 10/3/2017 at 10:02 PM, blackwing said:

Yes.  His agent should have thought twice before letting him take this role because he is forever going to get typecast as the brainy nerd who has a military/spy desk job.

Another good episode.  Suspenseful and filled with action.   Really like what they have done here.  Good balance of field team and support team back home.  

The two non-blond field guys look too much alike.   I know one is supposed to be Middle Eastern and the other one judging from his nickname of McG is probably of Irish descent, but they look too similar to me.  Can't tell them apart.

Regarding the brainy nerd typecasting for the character 'Noah', I think the actor would have to be an idiot to turn down any job with a major network until he is a very big star.  Everyone has to pay the bills.  Also, I think he just looks like that in real life, so why not capitalize on it? The actor will have to start lifting weights or do something like bleach his hair or grow a beard to change up his looks when he's ready to play a different role. 

[dargosmydaddy]

I actually went back and rewatched the following scene to see if I'd missed something since so many people were commenting on the projected romance between Jaz and Adam. Other than the fact that they are two attractive people of the opposite sex sharing a scene together on a TV show, which we have all been conditioned to believe means they are destined to be together, I didn't see anything to overtly suggest it. And while I know that this is TV, and relationships seem inevitable, from what we've been given so far, I'm (very) cautiously optimistic that they won't go there (at least not this season!). The conversation to me seemed like general friend/ team bonding and Adam trying to get a point across (if rather heavy handedly, as Kirsty pointed out), similar to the scene with Adam and Amir at the beginning of the episode. Yes, we get a lingering shot of Jaz's face at the end, but I choose to take that as "contemplative" rather than "love struck."

Fingers crossed that this can be a rare show that lacks workplace romances, similar to Elementary. Or we'll get a Noah/ Hannah romance, which I don't particularly want, but which wouldn't be inappropriate. (I don't think it would, right? Are they equals at work?)

Edited October 8, 2017 by dargosmydaddy

[Lady Calypso]

I watched this episode, hoping for the best. I will say that it's a lot better than the little I watched of SEAL Team. It's not particularly spectacular and it doesn't have any major gimick, but it's watchable, I didn't hate a single character, and I like that there's no big secret twist to try to get me to watch. It is what it is. Besides son of Anne Heche's character being dead, it has fairly simple characters. Sure, there'll probably be some major secrets characters are hiding down the road, but I appreciate that this show didn't use it as a crutch for the pilot. 

Also, Mike Vogel always gets me to watch his shows, whether or not they're good (I'm looking at you, Under the Dumb...I mean Dome). 

I won't be watching this live, but I will definitely be keeping up with this show for as long as I can. 

[Lady Calypso]

I also find myself liking the field team way more. I'd love to know more about them as people, but they are sprinkling that information in. I love that the field team works well together. They bicker from time to time, but they're not incompetent on the job, or distracted by each other...yet. It is only episode 2, after all. I mean, Dalton's "we're a team" speech was a little on the nose, but it's still early, so I'm hoping for better. 

I'm also hoping for no workplace romances, on either side. I get that they happen, but it's entirely too predictable to see who could be paired up with who. I feel like it's the expectation that it'll happen that has this a talking point. Shows, way too often, go the romance route with coworkers for whatever reason (mostly because it's an easy, go to thing to write for), and I wish I didn't feel like I had to discuss this. 

Hannah/Noah seems predictable. I don't hate either character, but I have no interest in them. Also predictable is Jaz with Dalton. The only female on the field team with the male lead? Can we stick with a brother/sister dynamic instead? 

Hi Stacey Farber! Nice to see you on this show! I like how competent her character was. 

[TV Anonymous]

Apologies in advance but I can not help comparing this show with SEAL Team as the genre on both shows are similar, special operations forces doing missions with a command / intelligence team controlling. After watching two episodes each however, I think SEAL Team is leading. It seems to be more realistic and make more sense than this show.

One of the trope that I loathe - simply because it makes no sense whatsoever - is that total strangers willing to do major favor for the protagonist against the antagonist for no other reason that the protagonist is a protagonist. It is where people who do not appear to know the protagonist get to his/her side against the antagonist. It is the case with this episode. The store owner and the bath house manager readily cooperate with our heroes without knowing who they are and what they are doing. Granted that they may want to stick it to the Russians but without knowing who the blonde woman is and what the stranger and the soldiers want with her, they are ready to assume such big of a risk? As well, they just drop their Ukrainian and switch to English? How convenient. Who knew that a regular shopkeeper in Ukraine spoke perfect English.

The other thing that bugs me is the fact that the Deputy Director of Defense Intelligence Agency has direct command authority to military forces. There are supposedly many military personnel in that office, but none of them have anything to say except for attending briefing and... nothing.

[Drogo]

On 9/28/2017 at 4:53 AM, Mars477 said:

The show might have flubbed some of the military stuff somewhat.  Like how Dalton is a Captain, but Jaz calls him "Top", which is slang for a First Sergeant.  Maybe he's a mustang, but it's a hell of a stretch.

This. He's looking a little young to have made E-8 before crossing over.  The show could have easily given him a different nickname, so it bugs.

[Raja]

30 minutes ago, Drogo said:

This. He's looking a little young to have made E-8 before crossing over.  The show could have easily given him a different nickname, so it bugs.

The only thing that I can figure is that they heard Sergeant Grey use "Top" on The Unit. Unlike "Gunny" where they always seem to be one if a Marine is onscreen there have been few "Top's" in popular TV/film fiction. The only ones that I can think of are Sergeant Rutledge and being the 10th Cavalry Buffalo Soldiers in the post Civil War America they used the full "Top Soldier". And a GI Joe Comic book described Duke as a First Sergeant. I guess Donnie Walberg played Lieutenant Carwood Lipton in Band of Brothers and as he was the company First Sergeant for most of the war before his commission, but I don't remember him being called "Top". In my experience about half of the First Sergeants allowed people to call them "Top" for the other half it was always "First Sergeant".

[Drogo]

On 10/7/2017 at 9:28 PM, Lady Calypso said:

Hannah/Noah seems predictable. I don't hate either character, but I have no interest in them.

Also, she's just using him for his intelligence.  He's a person not an object, Hannah.

Jaz and Dalton won't happen despite her palpable interest, he wouldn't let it. 

[Drogo]

An American traitor who turned to terrorism becomes integral in preventing the next attack on U.S. soil.

[Drogo]

When Ambassador Charles Webb is in danger while stationed in Nigeria, Dalton's team heads to the region to find a situation different than they expected. Jaz makes a connection with a little girl she meets during the mission; and Patricia receives some personal news.

[Netfoot]

Disappointing.

[Raja]

The initial plan depended upon someone carrying a unique $100,000 phone in his suit jacket flap pocket. Okay

[Irishmaple]

That episode didn't hold together very well for me. My initial impression was the team is based in Turkey so I was surprised they were pulled in for an operation in Mexico. Are they the only team working for Anne Heche? She didn't have anyone in the area?

I also didn't buy Sophia's motivation for betraying Booth. Yes he is a POS but she's a young woman who grew up in poverty in an area run by a drug cartel, and Booth keeps her out of that. He seemed to genuinely care about her and is likely giving her enough of an allowance to support her family.  I don't doubt she's a decent woman at her core but she appears to care for him too and turning on him seems suicidal. In her shoes, I wouldn't care how old a friend the intelligence guy was, I'd be disinclined on turn on my POS arms dealer boyfriend who's keeping me safe in a world filled with crappy options. I mean, his entire security team fucked up and let him get mugged, and he didn't kill them. Guy's practically a saint!!

[Chaos Theory]

I like this show.  It's fun empty entertainment. I don't really care if it doesn't make much sense.  I don't need to think about every show I watch and there really isn't anything else on.

so far there aren't any characters i disklike.  I like the idea that the show us being split between the boots on the ground team and the intelligence division.  

[Xantar]

This show was stronger when it was set in Russia or the Middle East where the team's linguistics skills were an asset. But I guess that would get boring after a while. Still, it's a much better show than SEAL Team if only because none of the characters actively annoys me and personal life drama is kept to a minimum. Even the actress playing the implausibly attractive DIA analyst is able to bring gravity to her scenes so that we believe her reactions. So I'm in for as long as this show is on the air (I'm assuming that won't be long).

It was rather sloppy for the team to use Amir twice where the target could see him, though. Why couldn't they let the Other Bearded Guy make the approach?

[Raja]

They keep telling us how this team is so much more special than other special forces and all that I am seeing is plot armor. Like the target only having three bodyguards in this episode or the Ukrainians just helping out strangers last week.

[threebluestars]

I was a bit disappointed all Hannah got was a lecture ... I mean, she disobeyed orders, acted on her own and could have blown the mission ... and she gets a lecture AND her big bad is taken out. I see that as a win for Hannah and a guarantee she'll do it again since she came out way ahead on this.

[Mars477]

4 hours ago, Raja said:

They keep telling us how this team is so much more special than other special forces and all that I am seeing is plot armor. Like the target only having three bodyguards in this episode or the Ukrainians just helping out strangers last week.

You really don't see why Ukrainians would want to help people who are sticking it to the Russians, huh?

[Raja]

Not to an armed team running the town

[NorthstarATL]

2 hours ago, threebluestars said:

I was a bit disappointed all Hannah got was a lecture ... I mean, she disobeyed orders, acted on her own and could have blown the mission ... and she gets a lecture AND her big bad is taken out. I see that as a win for Hannah and a guarantee she'll do it again since she came out way ahead on this.

I'll fanwank it that Heche's character should not have left the team with no contingency plans in case she's needed, and that she was doing someone she shouldn't have been while off comm, and that's why she decided to go easy. Did Heche look different in this ep, or was it just that she wasn't using the eyeglass prop? I kind of like the team at this point, so I'm willing to stick with them.

[Chaos Theory]

13 hours ago, threebluestars said:

I was a bit disappointed all Hannah got was a lecture ... I mean, she disobeyed orders, acted on her own and could have blown the mission ... and she gets a lecture AND her big bad is taken out. I see that as a win for Hannah and a guarantee she'll do it again since she came out way ahead on this.

I think Hanna got the point without a lecture or getting yelled at.  She expected the team to go in guns a-blazing and rescue the girl like she wished she had been rescued way back when but this is not how this particular team works.  They are cloak and daggery (which I also like by the way). And managed to save her life and also maintain her cover.   Hanna got lectured by Anne Heche about the nature of the team without getting yelled  at.  Besides I don't think she was especially mad at her.   

Edited October 11, 2017 by Chaos Theory
Phone hard me. I think it is broken or possessed

[Kirsty]

Aagh! I was so annoyed with the field team for having the same guy walk by the target twice!

But I liked that their plan for saving Sofia was doubling down on that guy's appearances so as to plant suspicion on someone else.

Anyway, I enjoyed this episode. I really like the Special Forces team; Heche and Glasses Guy are fine too, though I'm not a fan of the actress playing Hannah.

But the show is too basic. Character and relationships are seriously lacking. I guess it's supposed to be straight-up plotty adventure every week, with the odd quip and tragic backstory subplot. And that's not for me.

[Casually Observant]

Question: At the end where the team member Amir rides a motorcycle to a house and runs in and places a leather satchel at the foot of the bed in one of the bedrooms and makes eye contact with the bad guy with the gold necklace before driving off. What was in the satchel?  How did the satchel tell the bad guy that his other partner was in cahoots with the robbery guys?  Was it the same bag that had all the cash, but now was empty? And how is it that Amir can just walk in and the house is unlocked  and no one sees him?

[Kirsty]

Amir doesn't run in or place any satchel. Amir just has to get on his bike as the villain's car pulls into the drive, so that he catches the villain's eye right before he puts on his helmet and takes off.

Jaz sneaks into the fall guy's house while he's outside in the pool and leaves the bag in his bedroom. Then she sneaks out again, all while Dalton and Preach are on look-out.

Yes, that was the same bag that our heroes stole while wearing masks. It was full of cash when they stole it. I'm guessing the cash was still in the bag when they returned it but it doesn't matter. The bag alone is enough to incriminate him.

Quote

And how is it that Amir can just walk in and the house is unlocked  and no one sees him?

They're just that good?! Yeah, it wouldn't be that easy. But the house wasn't unlocked; we see Jaz picking the lock. And there's a security guy holding a gun by the pool. For the rest, you can handwave explanations -- Preach briefly took out the cameras and alarm, Dalton lets Jaz know when the coast is clear of security guys for thirty seconds -- or you can just roll with it! ;)

[CooperTV]

I was wondering whose brilliant idea was to take two Arabs and one black person on a mission in 100% white East European region as Ukraine and specifically to Sverdlovsk that has like, population of a not very big regional center (~60K)? But alas, noone in the show answered that. They blew up a helicopter out in the open and killed a bunch of Russian soldiers so inconspicuous is clearly not in their vocabulary, lol.

[piequinn35]

I get confused with Amir and the other bearded guy whats his name? they look the same. I know the other guy is taller than Amir. 

Unrealistic show but it's entertaining me. 

[Raja]

1 hour ago, piequinn35 said:

I get confused with Amir and the other bearded guy whats his name? they look the same. I know the other guy is taller than Amir. 

Unrealistic show but it's entertaining me. 

Back in John Wayne's time the green beret meant special forces, today its the beard. On another of the special op's show Valor a pilot was even advised to shave his and he ignored the advise.  Beyond beards are they so many black guys in Mexico that one stands watch or guard as a utility worker out in the open?

[dargosmydaddy]

1 hour ago, piequinn35 said:

I get confused with Amir and the other bearded guy whats his name? they look the same. I know the other guy is taller than Amir. 

It's funny, this was mentioned in the previous episode thread and I thought it was odd because I had no trouble telling them apart, and then this episode I couldn't tell them apart either unless they were called by name or were standing next to each other (Amir is tiny!). 

[TV Anonymous]

Three episodes in, this show gets further away from reality. I am sorry to keep on comparing this to SEAL Team, but that show feels more grounded to how special operations operate. Granted, there are family dramas that I do not care about, but the military aspects are much better. Having said that, these are my comments for this episode.

1. So are they a headquarter asset for the DIA / SOCOM or are they part of a Theater Special Operations Command (TSOC)? If the are HQ asset, what are they doing based in Incirlik? If they are part of SACEUR or SOCCENT what are they doing that far away from their area of operations in Mexico?
2. Oh, but it seems like they are not part of any established military organization they are... Omega Team. Did they ever have the chance to work with Arnold Schwarzenegger?
3. Speaking of which, what kind of stupid special operations sending operators / agents to the field who does not speak local language, especially if the mission is the one involving interaction with locals?
4. What kind of stupid body guards does Boothe have? They are completely oblivious of being tailed? One burst of shots and they are gone?
5. Why the manicurist just leaves her seat when Jaz comes. Jaz does not even need to say anything.
6. And of course the Captain also flies the aircraft. Not saying it is impossible for an aviator to get to SFAS, but it would be a very tall order.

[Chaos Theory]

Ok I really like this one.  I may not know any of the characters names and Anne Heche will ALWAYS be Anne Heche but this is a fun actiony military show.  

[Irishmaple]

Yeah, I enjoyed the hell out of that one too. I've always had a soft spot for locked door stuff though.  I can't stand feeling enclosed but I like watching other people deal with it!

Anne Heche is totally killing this role. I liked her in Men In Trees and I tried to watch that biblical apocalypse abomination she was in a year or so back, but she's giving this one the full Anne Heche and it's working for me. When she told Maguire to leave, I had nothing but confidence that she had it all figured out. Nate, the American Taliban, was sad. So young, and so broken.  I just can't see how the Taliban is a better option though. 

In the shallow end of the pool, how did I fail to notice that Maguire is hot? Seems obvious now but I missed it for the previous three episodes. I'm not warming to Hannah at all though. She's the only character that hasn't won me over.

[piequinn35]

Yeah Noah Mills is hot, I think he models for Dolce and Gabbana.

[Xantar]

It's not realistic, but I don't care. None of the characters actively annoys me (unlike in SEAL Team), so I'm in until the show ends. And judging by the ratings, that may be pretty soon. Oh well.

This was a nice action episode, but I got into this series because it's based on the characters using their wits to plan their way out of a situation. The pilot episode was great because it relied on deception and psychology instead of brute force (it's also why they can justify having a woman on the field).

I rolled my eyes when the prisoner picked up a nail, though. Really, Maguire? When you unchained the prisoner you didn't notice that he was clutching something in his fist?

[Raja]

3 minutes ago, Xantar said:

It's not realistic, but I don't care. None of the characters actively annoys me (unlike in SEAL Team), so I'm in until the show ends. And judging by the ratings, that may be pretty soon. Oh well.

This was a nice action episode, but I got into this series because it's based on the characters using their wits to plan their way out of a situation. The pilot episode was great because it relied on deception and psychology instead of brute force (it's also why they can justify having a woman on the field).

I rolled my eyes when the prisoner picked up a nail, though. Really, Maguire? When you unchained the prisoner you didn't notice that he was clutching something in his fist?

I think women in the field is just like the men having beards, even when operating in Mexico. It signals not military so of use for shooting spies. Only now that we see all the special operation forces in beards, at one time to fit in with locals, the beard itself no longer signals not military.

 

As to the ratings the "Top" name would really turn off the military porn fan and an essential part of the base audience would turn it off.

[threebluestars]

I really liked the episode too. I thought the vibe they created really felt like Afghanistan - some great set dec in this episode.

And I totally agree - never noticed how hot McGuire was until tonight - I also love he's the one bringing the humour, so I'm cool if we have an episode devoted to fleshing him out more.

[Infie]

I am really enjoying this show so far.  I really dislike Seal Team, so it isn't a surprise to me that that one has a full season order and this one is poorer ratings.  

[piequinn35]

So there's a triumvirate of military shows currently going on - Seal Team, Valor (main duo are Army Helo Pilots), I have seen this last night, have yet to see the Pilot, 

and The Brave, they are more like a Black Ops to me and unrealistic but entertaining :)

[Irishmaple]

I like both SEAL Team and The Brave. I hope this one gets a full season order too. The inaccuracies might turn off the military porn viewers but I'm just here to watch hot guys blow shit up. I haven't seen Valor yet. I was interested in it because Christina Ochea was brilliant in Blood Drive but I haven't heard anything good about it and here in Canada the show's being carried by the W (formerly Women's) Network. I can't remember the last time I watched anything on W. Their programming just isn't my thing. 

[solea]

4 hours ago, Irishmaple said:

I'm just here to watch hot guys blow shit up.

Same.

I also find Jaz interesting. Loved the bit where she nonchalantly shoots the Taliban who tripped her sensor. I like all the characters but I'm trying desperately to ignore Anne Heche. 

Edited October 18, 2017 by solea

[Kirsty]

http://deadline.com/2017/10/marsha-thomason-the-good-doctor-bahram-khosraviani-the-brave-casting-1202190831/

Quote

Bahram Khosraviani has been set as a recurring guest star on NBC’s The Brave, the rookie military drama starring Mike Vogel and Anne Heche that revolves around a Special Ops team and their missions. He will play Qassem Javad, a decorated veteran of the Iranian military who is now the head of Fahim Jarif’s security team.

[Irishmaple]

This episode must have been torturous for you!! Normally it must be manageable, with Ms Heche back in ops and the hot guys off on their missions. But this time? She was right in the middle of the action, with the two hottest guys, for the entire 42 minutes. I hope you don't have to go through that again :)

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Kirsty said:

http://deadline.com/2017/10/marsha-thomason-the-good-doctor-bahram-khosraviani-the-brave-casting-1202190831/

They are going to have a reoccurring nemesis?

[TV Anonymous]

On 10/17/2017 at 8:03 PM, Irishmaple said:

I like both SEAL Team and The Brave. I hope this one gets a full season order too. The inaccuracies might turn off the military porn viewers but I'm just here to watch hot guys blow shit up. I haven't seen Valor yet. I was interested in it because Christina Ochea was brilliant in Blood Drive but I haven't heard anything good about it and here in Canada the show's being carried by the W (formerly Women's) Network. I can't remember the last time I watched anything on W. Their programming just isn't my thing. 

Do you not get The CW with your cable or satellite provider?

[Irishmaple]

I'm with Rogers (cable) and it carries The CW from Buffalo (WNLO) and Los Angeles (KTLA) Unlike CBS, ABC, NBC and Fox, The CW is priced as a premium channel here. I don't pay for it but it isn't really a problem because Canadian networks buy US shows for simulcasting. CTV carries all of The CW's DC shows and now W has picked up Valor (writing that without a u is killing me)  The fact that it's on W leads me to believe Valor will focus on relationships and melodrama. To illustrate: tonight's prime time lineup on W consists of Crazy Ex Girlfriend, Chesapeake Shore and Greenleaf. 

[Ariah]

I have nothing against Ms Heche. I think she's quite believable as a competent woman in charge.

On a side note: I remember some discussion on the forum around the inevitable hookup between Dalton and Jaz... I beg to differ. If I can see any chemistry on screen, this episode it was between Campbell and Dalton. I know she's older than him (her son must have been close to Dalton's age), but still. I'd dig that.

I wonder which episode will touch upon Campbell's son's death. There's a mystery there to be explored.