Deception - General Discussion

[Lady Calypso]

So, this episode was a tiny bit weaker than the others, but I still thoroughly enjoyed it.

Once again, Jack Cutmore-Scott is the highlight of this show. Both Cameron and Jonathan are fascinating, three dimensional characters. It's so easy to root for them and really enjoy their scenes, even if some of the writing is completely tropey. 

Starting off with Cameron, I didn't necessarily see any chemistry between him and his ex, but I found Cameron's complex feelings toward his ex believable enough. He clearly carried a torch for her still, and made some blunders this episode, but that's what makes Cameron so great. He was acting completely jealous and a little jerky in moments, but I appreciate that they did that. He almost took credit for saving his ex's life, but then made the right choice in the end. But it was also nice for him to realize that he didn't treat her all that great and I also felt remorse on top of the jealousy. 

It was nice to see a little bit more of Jordan, though I still don't feel like I know him or Gunter as people yet.

The Jonathan/Dina/Mike stuff was very tropey, but gosh darnit, if each actor didn't sell the scenes regardless. I particularly liked Jonathan's realization of Mike/Dina and how he knew how much he screwed up there. Dina was over the top with her feelings for Mike, probably too much, but I guess it was nice to see more of Dina. Plus, I liked the conclusion of their subplot by the end, that Mike didn't get super pissed and he didn't storm off, but they left that relationship off with a strong possibility that Mike/Dina will start up a romance, regardless of Dina lying about her relationship with Jonathan. 

Now, on to the strongest part of the series, which is Jonathan and Cameron's relationship. I was pleasantly surprised to be wrong about Cameron's naivety about their father being crappy and also his own issues that have been a result of this. It was nice to hear Cameron's self realization, and he's probably always known as well. It was also great to see Jonathan a little less cynical. 

Now, that ending? That was a solid cliffhanger. So, Cameron's the target and Jonathan's stuck in jail, unable to help his brother. It's good that he managed to figure it out, but probably too late. Jonathan's reaction was really great. We haven't had too much of Jonathan since he's stuck in jail, and we have certainly seen a lot more bitterness between the brothers, so it was fantastic to see Jonathan's genuinely scared reaction to Cameron being taken. 

I am looking forward to this Tuesday's episode to see how it all kicks off. I am super glad for this new episode coming up much sooner. 

[mertensia]

I have to say, that bit at the end was beautifully filmed/directed. The people slowly surrounding Cameron. 

It is nice that-so far- people in this show act like adults. No teen angsting all over the place.

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

 

I really didn't like this episode until the last segment when Jonathan broke the code.

 

Same. Until that, I was pretty bored. 

[Free]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

I think Cameron is still taking what his brother is going through far too lightly.  He seems to call his brother far to often with ordinary crap that in the big scheme of things really isn't all that important compared to his brother being in jail.  So to that end Cameron is starting to annoy me.

Yeah that part is really annoying, Cameron keeps going on and on about mundane stuff while his brother is locked up.

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

I think Cameron is still taking what his brother is going through far too lightly.  He seems to call his brother far to often with ordinary crap that in the big scheme of things really isn't all that important compared to his brother being in jail.  So to that end Cameron is starting to annoy me.

I agree. I think Cameron is going to need to fully realize that his brother's in jail and doesn't need to hear about life on the outside. Though, with Jonathan even pointing it out this episode (he said point blank that he didn't want to keep hearing about Cameron's life since he's in jail), the show seems self aware that Cameron is being pretty selfish, so I do think it's intentional. 

[ohjoy]

I think the problem is that the emotional/relational revelations that are incredibly minor compared to being stuck in prison still need to happen for character development, and the brothers know each other better than anyone else does, so at least some of those need to happen between them, even while they should be focused on the obviously more important things. I give the moment in this episode a little grace since a Cameron's little introspection at that time was mirrored in Jonathan. We even got them both smiling a bit by the end of the scene.

[bara007]

I think the scenes between Jonathan and his brother were nicely done. And as the previous poster has said, their closeness really shined through in them. I think a little introspection is always needed.

The second half of the episode made me feel kinda sad for Cameron - being so unwanted, almost ridiculed (by his own team) and unneeded in the end. Not a hero, even though he wanted to be. Not being forgiven, even though he tried. It was just not what I have expected...

I think that his "sins", for the sake of the show they were acting out since their childhood to go on:), are not soo bad in a larger view - it is just sad that to see as it seems he has really no one to talk to about things... So that is why the phones calls with his brother!

[mertensia]

I forgot to say I liked that Cameron consults his team on how to do tricks- and asked Vinnie's opinion on how Lexi's kidnapping was done.

[Lady Calypso]

Oh man, that was great. Jonathan may have become my favourite character. This was Jonathan's episode to shine with Cameron taking a backseat, and he did not disappoint. Jonathan is ruthless, snarky, bluntly honest, and can be a real jerk, which makes some sense as to why their father didn't make him the front twin. But on the other hand, he's smart, possibly smarter than Cameron, and sees things that others don't. Damn, Jonathan was just on fire this entire episode, and Jack Cutmore-Scott really differentiated the twins, not even just by appearance. Jonathan being part of the team didn't feel like Cameron's role on the team. Even with him taking on some similar tasks, Jonathan reacted differently than Cameron would have. 

I think the love triangle from hell is just that (hell), but I do like that even Jonathan had to admit that Mike was a big help for him. As for Kay, I liked her dynamic with Jonathan. I thought that Jonathan and Cameron would have had to switch places from jail in order for it to happen, so Jonathan and Kay interacting in this way was different. I liked both of them knowing that saving Cameron was the number one thing that brought them together (Jonathan's slip with wanting to kill Mystery Woman, aside). I also chuckled at Jonathan telling Kay that she wasn't Cameron's type. A lie, or a hint that there won't be some Cameron/Kay romance down the line?

I really liked the visual of Jonathan looking at the "stars". 

I knew the diamond heist wasn't going to go smoothly for the team. And, I'll be honest, I totally knew Henri was Cameron in disguise. The guy just looked off, like he was wearing a mask, and then I realized that they already flashed back to Henri before Jonathan and Kay got to the auction and we saw him again.

That ending, though. They wouldn't kill off Cameron, right? Nonetheless, they got me thinking that for a solid minute. And they left it off on a cliffhanger. 

[janeta]

Um, who besides me pegged Henri as Cam in the auction...?

[Guest]

What......

They wouldn’t kill Cameron off though after 6 episodes so I’m sure he’ll be fine. Somehow.

[janeta]

They just have to figure out how to reverse the fans in a minute or less.

i'm going to be out of town this weekend—hope i can catch the next ep.  do we know how many eps they ordered?

[Lady Calypso]

3 minutes ago, janeta said:

i'm going to be out of town this weekend—hope i can catch the next ep.  do we know how many eps they ordered?

There's 13 episodes this season (yay!) so we're just over halfway through. 

God, I hope the ratings for this episode are ok. This show actually excites me. I was excited right before this episode started. It's rare for a show to elicit such a response in me.

[janeta]

And no, that wasn’t actually The Octagon....

[ohjoy]

Okay, I wasn’t going to admit it, but... I might have a tiny crush on Jonathan. Even though he can be a real jerk and he tends to let his emotions get the better of him in situations where he needs to be level-headed (and when he lifted the pocket knife off of Gunter I was concerned that he’d make a break for it before Kay realized she still needed him), he is extremely smart, his dry (bitter?) comments are a shield he does let fall every once in a while, and the ruthlessness works right now — I’m sure it’s helping him stay alive in prison. I do remember in the first or second episode Cameron trying to explain Jonathan’s brilliant mind as a big reason why their performances worked so well, so it was fun getting to see it in the forefront of the action. I also liked seeing his flaws; they’re different from Cameron’s flaws (or, at least they manifest differently), but they still get him into his own world of trouble.

Speaking of people not keeping their cool, Kay was not exactly her normal chill self at the beginning of the episode. Most of the time she’s a little too even-keeled for me (I guess it’s supposed to balance Cameron’s not-at-all-even keel), but in those first alleyway scenes she was more animated than usual. I’d like to see a bit more of that from the actress. That being said, this episode belonged to Jack Cutmore-Scott, who is really fascinating as each individual brother, especially Jonathan. This show has surprised me; I didn’t expect to like it so much, but I’m completely hooked now. I’m looking forward to seeing how they save Cameron.

 

ETA: The more I think about it, the funnier it is: Jonathan described himself as the methodical planner, and implied that Cameron’s ideas were short on forsight but big on flash (I liked his  “blink and you’ll miss it” lightning comparison) — which was then illustrated by Cameron-as-Henri just diving for the diamond at the opportune moment. I mean, we’ve seen Cameron put thought into some of his deceptions previously, so we know it’s not all the time, but the way the comparison was proven in the episode was kind of amusing.

Edited April 25, 2018 by garnetarden

[Lady Calypso]

27 minutes ago, garnetarden said:

Okay, I wasn’t going to admit it, but... I might have a tiny crush on Jonathan. Even though he can be a real jerk and he tends to let his emotions get the better of him in situations where he needs to be level-headed (and when he lifted the pocket knife off of Gunter I was concerned that he’d make a break for it before Kay realized she still needed him), he is extremely smart, his dry (bitter?) comments are a shield he does let fall every once in a while, and the ruthlessness works right now — I’m sure it’s helping him stay alive in prison. I do remember in the first or second episode Cameron trying to explain Jonathan’s brilliant mind as a big reason why their performances worked so well, so it was fun getting to see it in the forefront of the action. I also liked seeing his flaws; they’re different from Cameron’s flaws (or, at least they manifest differently), but they still get him into his own world of trouble.

Oh, I definitely have a crush on Jonathan. Both brothers have very inherent flaws. Jonathan's reckless and impulsive (mostly methodical, but also impulsive), and that could have led to Cameron's death sooner. Cameron is naive, also impulsive, and a little self absorbed, which doesn't allow him to see the full picture. Jonathan has a lot of rage inside while Cameron is more upbeat. Jonathan shields his emotions with snark and blunt honesty. Cameron shields his emotions with optimism and upbeat humour. I like Cameron's light-heartedness, but I found myself completely invested in Jonathan this episode. He talked out the steps aloud while Cameron seems to figure out situations inwardly. I actually really like how they're differentiating Cameron and Jonathan through the dialogue, as much as I love watching Jack portray them onscreen. 

[ursula]

On 4/24/2018 at 11:01 PM, janeta said:

Um, who besides me pegged Henri as Cam in the auction...?

I actually thought he was Lady Heterochromia but then again, that would have been just too obvious. 

Spoiler

I guess next week will be mostly a repeat of this episode but from Cam's PoV, which is all kinds of ingenious.

 

Am I the only one half-hoping Cameron dies and Jonathan takes his place? This show would have been so much better with brothers switched. 

[mertensia]

I wonder if they would really have the nerve to kill off Cameron.

Also: how did she force him to go through with the theft? I mean, once there he could easily have surrendered to Kay, or vanished. Or stood up and ripped off the disguise.

Edited April 25, 2018 by mertensia

[AnimeMania]

I liked the portrayal of Jonathan, but hated everything about the auction house. The security was horrible, and everything they did was ridiculous. Why uncover the valuable diamond? Several people touched the diamond with their hands and could have switched it at any time. Why didn't they lock down the facility until they found the person trying to steal the diamond.

I am hoping that the Lynx diamond points to a larger Rockefeller treasure, otherwise the asylum clue scene was pointless.

Edited April 25, 2018 by AnimeMania

[Free]

4 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I liked the portrayal of Jonathan, but hated everything about the auction house. The security was horrible, and everything they did was ridiculous. Why uncover the valuable diamond? Several people touched the diamond with their hands and could have switched it at any time. Why didn't they lock down the facility until they found the person trying to steal the diamond.

I am hoping that the Lynx diamond points to a larger Rockefeller treasure, otherwise the asylum clue scene was pointless.

Yeah, the security was really poor, there was no need to kidnap Cameron tbh.

[Lady Calypso]

2 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Mike didn't deserve that shit from Jonathan.  Dina should have stepped up and told Jonathan that she has moved on to Mike.  Dina is the one that can shut this triangle shit down.

I agree. I do like Mike, but I think he's in way over his head with Dina, who is still hung up on Jonathan. I think she wants to move on with Mike, but she clearly hasn't made her peace with Jonathan in order to do that.

3 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Jonathan seems to be understandably very bitter.  I think his attitude has everything to do with the way he was raised and how he took a back seat to his brother.  That said, that doesn't give Jonathan the right to treat people who aren't responsible for his past like shit.

I agree with this. Granted, we don't know what the twins were like before being forced into their father's shows, so maybe he wasn't always like this, but he also could have been. But either way, their father definitely screwed Jonathan up to the point where he does make decisions that aren't nice, which I assume is something he'll have to work on if there's a second season.

5 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I wonder what the mystery woman (The Sorceress with Magic Eyes) was holding over Cameron's head to make sure that he didn't pop out of the disguise earlier.

The only thing I can assume is she might have threatened Jonathan's life and had some sort of proof that she'd do it, especially since she knew Jonathan would be there. Since Cameron is seemingly naive but also not stupid, I'd have to think that Mystery Woman would be holding something over his head in order for him to cooperate and not just reveal himself during the heist, especially in the vault (though he did get knocked out by Jonathan pretty quickly). I guess, just like why Jonathan didn't try to take the gun from Mystery Woman in the vault (besides plot contrivance); with him almost killing Mystery Woman earlier in the episode before realizing that he wouldn't have gotten Cameron back that way, I saw that he took a methodical approach to ensure that his brother wasn't harmed. Not that it was great writing to begin with, mind you. 

9 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Hopefully most of the audience that watched Roseanne stayed to watch Deception.

I didn't realize until last night that there was no new episode of Roseanne, but there was a full night marathon. Unfortunately, the marathon was under 10 million so Deception's ratings weren't higher than what they might have been if there had been a new episode of the show. 

The preliminary ratings for last night episode just came out a few minutes ago, actually. The ratings didn't go up....but they didn't drop that much either (3.2 million overall, which is just a little lower than Sunday's episode) and, I think, about 0.8 in the demo. More to the point, it did better than the other shows this season in the timeslot. So...not great, but I'm relieved that it didn't drop to 2 million. I knew that the ratings wouldn't shoot straight up, but I was more worried that they'd drop heavily. I'm just glad it was still fairly consistent to Sunday's ratings. I just worry it won't be enough to renew the show.

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

Jonathan seems to be understandably very bitter.  I think his attitude has everything to do with the way he was raised and how he took a back seat to his brother.

I thought Jonathan was the type of person that once he solved a problem (magic trick) he got bored with it and is anti-social. Cameron was the showman in the family willing to do the same trick over and over until it was ready to perform and he likes being around people.

[jmonique]

I found this episode fascinating. Jonathan is just as arrogant and self-assured as Cameron, but whether by nature, nurture or necessity, he isn't always as ON as his brother. The scene where he was forced to listen to the auction attendee bad-mouth him because she thought he was Cameron was fascinating to me, as I realized his entire life in public prior to his arrest was pretending to be Cameron. He was allowed no identity of his own beyond trusted employees/friends -- in a way, being arrested finally freed him from a lifetime of not being shackled to his brother's identity.

Jack's acting choices were fascinating, as well. Jonathan has spent a lifetime pretending to be Cameron, so there are obvious similarities -- but he's also more contained, and more deliberate. It would be interesting to get more flashbacks to learn how much of his bitterness has always been there, and how much is a byproduct of sitting in prison for a year, found guilty of a crime he didn't commit.

Speaking of which, though, I was a little put off by how the FBI team kept treating Jonathan like he was a shady criminal -- if they're working with Cameron, and now that they've seen this woman, I'd think they'd be able to trust him a little more. I'm wondering if he'll get any credit for saving the lives of those men he dragged out of the vault on his own. 

[ursula]

1 hour ago, jmonique said:

I was a little put off by how the FBI team kept treating Jonathan like he was a shady criminal -- if they're working with Cameron, and now that they've seen this woman, I'd think they'd be able to trust him a little more. I'm wondering if he'll get any credit for saving the lives of those men he dragged out of the vault on his own. 

At this point, they have enough to acquit him, don't they? The Sorceress with Magic Eyes was witnessed by a bonafide FBI agent. 

[Lady Calypso]

3 hours ago, jmonique said:

Jack's acting choices were fascinating, as well. Jonathan has spent a lifetime pretending to be Cameron, so there are obvious similarities -- but he's also more contained, and more deliberate. It would be interesting to get more flashbacks to learn how much of his bitterness has always been there, and how much is a byproduct of sitting in prison for a year, found guilty of a crime he didn't commit.

I'm rewatching the episode, something I usually don't do unless I really like the show, and what I find fascinating is how differently he plays Jonathan-as-Cameron, at least in this episode. Not only is he distracted with trying to save his brother, but he knows people know about Jonathan and he seemed a little less willing to play along as Cameron. He's finally free of that life, and it showed with how reluctant he was to be Cameron at the auction. It seems like he resents his brother, but not as much as I assumed at the beginning of the series that he would. Though, it clearly is enough where he almost killed the Mystery Woman before getting to Cameron, so that was what I found most interesting. He cares about his brother, but I think he's so relieved to be free of his shadow that he is still trying to figure out what that means for his relationship with Cameron. 

I also don't know why this makes me grin, but every time Cameron (and the team, but Cameron in particular) calls Jonathan "Johnny", I smile a bit. I personally find Johnny to be used more with younger people (and I guess, subconsciously it sounds less mature than "John/Jon") so I'm not sure whether part of it is Cameron subconsciously putting Jonathan below him, or if he's found himself co-dependent on his brother. Jack has Cameron say Johnny in such a child-like and loving way that it's super endearing to me. 

Also, I kind of love that Cameron has Kay in his phone as "Partner". 

I also really like the detectives immediately going to help Kay once she revealed that Cameron was "one of them". That was actually rather sweet. 

3 hours ago, jmonique said:

Speaking of which, though, I was a little put off by how the FBI team kept treating Jonathan like he was a shady criminal -- if they're working with Cameron, and now that they've seen this woman, I'd think they'd be able to trust him a little more. I'm wondering if he'll get any credit for saving the lives of those men he dragged out of the vault on his own. 

I know. Kay and the FBI know that Jonathan's innocent. They know that there is, indeed, a Mystery Woman. At the very least, Kay knows this. I know she didn't trust Cameron right away, but Kay was treating Jonathan like a criminal, which she knows for a fact that he isn't. I get that Jonathan's rough around the edges and once he did try to kill Mystery Woman, I get Kay's distrust. But before that? It was just a little odd. 

Which is why I loved that the deception team actually greeted him warmly. I really liked that Gunter really adored Jonathan. I wanted to know Jonathan's relationship with the team, so we got a glimpse of it. I wonder if which team members prefer which brother. I kind of get the feeling that they might prefer Jonathan, not that Cameron's a bad guy, but he can be more self absorbed and idealistic than Jonathan. 

I did like Jordan going to Mike to comfort him. He uttered an interesting line about being in second place. Does he mean on the team? Does he mean with Dina? I do have to wonder. The team in general fascinates me. I want to see all five of them together to see how their dynamic is. 

I really liked how Jack portrayed Jonathan's reaction to hearing Mystery Woman's voice at the Quest. 

I am surprised that Mystery Woman (who desperately needs a name) mused about how she'd rather Cameron was in prison instead of Jonathan. First off, Jonathan seems to be more methodical than Cameron and, thus, a bit harder to manipulate, even despite him falling for it the first time. But also, does that mean that Mystery Woman knew which twin she was targeting in the pilot? Which really furthers my suspicion that their father is in on this. Also, I wonder why Mystery Woman said that. Though I can't disagree, even as a fan of Cameron as well. Jonathan as the main character would have been awesome, and an optimistic Cameron would have broken down in prison.

Jonathan solving each puzzle in less than a minute was pretty awesome to see. I like how they defined his talent as being able to recognize patterns. I know Cameron's the showboat in the family, but have they officially established his own true talent as specific as Jonathan's? 

2 hours ago, ursula said:

At this point, they have enough to acquit him, don't they? The Sorceress with Magic Eyes was witnessed by a bonafide FBI agent. 

Technically they should, right? That's why Kay specifically told Mystery Woman to smile for the camera, as there was now proof that she exists. I wouldn't be surprised if Jonathan is out of jail by the next episode. 

[Dowel Jones]

Kay blew it.  She should have handcuffed the villainess outside and then radioed to get people to the vault.  Of course, that would defeat the premise of the series.

Jonathan blew it.  Faced with the fact that the door would close almost immediately, he wasted time dragging people out.  Find something with which to block the door.  Even a minuscule amount would be sufficient to defeat the decompression.

The heist plan doesn't quite make sense.  Either she knew the FBI would be a presence at the auction, or she didn't. In the latter case, having someone grab the diamond in front of everyone, even with a gunshot distraction, is betting everything on the possibility that the room wouldn't be locked down and the thief could smuggle out the jewel.  In the former case, she is betting everything on a house of cards play that absolutely everything will go as planned and the jewel will make it back to the vault.

[ohjoy]

But what proof do they have to acquit Jonathan, really? They have proof that the woman he claimed he was with truly exists, but there’s still the problem of the dead woman they found that they convicted him of murdering in the first place. They need proof that Jonathan didn’t murder that woman, and even though they can prove that Mystery Woman exists, that doesn’t simultaneously prove that Jonathan didn’t kill the dead woman that was found at the crash scene. They need to catch Mystery Woman and get her to confess, or otherwise get verifiable proof of Jonathan’s innocence.

 

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

I also don't know why this makes me grin, but every time Cameron (and the team, but Cameron in particular) calls Jonathan "Johnny", I smile a bit. I personally find Johnny to be used more with younger people (and I guess, subconsciously it sounds less mature than "John/Jon") so I'm not sure whether part of it is Cameron subconsciously putting Jonathan below him, or if he's found himself co-dependent on his brother. Jack says Johnny in such a child-like and loving way that it's super endearing to me. 

 

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

Which is why I loved that the deception team actually greeted him warmly. I really liked that Gunter really adored Jonathan. I wanted to know Jonathan's relationship with the team, so we got a glimpse of it. I wonder if which team members prefer which brother. I kind of get the feeling that they might prefer Jonathan, not that Cameron's a bad guy, but he can be more self absorbed and idealistic than Jonathan. 

I love your whole post, but especially these two points, because I imagine Jonathan was sarcastic and dry and maybe a little resentful, but not as much before prison as he is now, and I get the feeling the entire team favored Jonathan — even Cameron does in some ways, with his honest assessment that Jonathan’s brilliant ideas made a lot of the show what it was. The way Cameron calls him “Johnny” (and even “John” when he does that) reads to me as a more co-dependent, close-knit thing to me. (I was friends with a pair of twins who shortened each other’s names like that, so that’s what it reminds me of.) I’m really curious which one is the older twin; most pairs of twins I’ve known have treated each other with the same family dynamics as regular siblings — one tends to act like the older sibling for the most part, and one tends to act like the younger. (I know this is fiction and the show writers probably haven’t seriously thought about that detail or considered it important, but still, I’d love to know.)

[Lady Calypso]

14 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

Jonathan blew it.  Faced with the fact that the door would close almost immediately, he wasted time dragging people out.  Find something with which to block the door.  Even a minuscule amount would be sufficient to defeat the decompression.

I don't think anything could have been used to keep the door open, though. It WAS a steel door designed to keep people in or out, so he didn't have time to find something equally as heavy to prop the door open.  Jonathan had two minutes to get five people out before the decompression started. I think he made mistakes in this episode before this (not finding a way to disarm the Mystery Woman, for example). But I don't think he wasted time in dragging people out. I think it was the only option he had. I'm just surprised it took him just under two minutes to get the first four out before the door shut to trap Cameron. 

16 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

The heist plan doesn't quite make sense.  Either she knew the FBI would be a presence at the auction, or she didn't. In the latter case, having someone grab the diamond in front of everyone, even with a gunshot distraction, is betting everything on the possibility that the room wouldn't be locked down and the thief could smuggle out the jewel.  In the former case, she is betting everything on a house of cards play that absolutely everything will go as planned and the jewel will make it back to the vault.

Well, it seems like she captured Cameron for a reason, so it's possible he came up with the plan but tried to allow room for the FBI to capture the Mystery Woman before she escaped. I think she knew the FBI would be at the auction from the moment Jonathan showed up to play the game and solved the clue for her. Although I was a bit confused as to why Mystery Woman couldn't figure it out herself or how she knew the FBI would spring Jonathan to help, which is why there are definitely questions that should be answered in the next episode. 

Rewatching the scenes with Cam-as-Henri, I just noticed that he was smiling when watching his brother pretend to be him and do the coin trick for the people at the auction. He was also in the background of a couple of the Kay/Jonathan shots. Also, what I didn't notice until I could go back and pause was that it was Cameron who fired the shot in the air to cause the commotion, and he was the one who knocked out Jordan, and everyone in the vault. I know we've seen Cameron fight people before, but I do wonder, more than ever, how Mystery Woman convinced him to go through with all of this, even when he had the opportunity to tell Mike what was going on. 

Also, I did laugh a bit when Mystery Woman responded to Jonathan's question about Cameron with "close", as he was lying at Jonathan's feet. Hell, she even pointed at him!

Just now, garnetarden said:

But what proof do they have to acquit Jonathan, really? They have proof that the woman he claimed he was with truly exists, but there’s still the problem of the dead woman they found that they convicted him of murdering in the first place. They need proof that Jonathan didn’t murder that woman, and even though they can prove that Mystery Woman exists, that doesn’t simultaneously prove that Jonathan didn’t kill the dead woman that was found at the crash scene. They need to catch Mystery Woman and get her to confess, or otherwise get verifiable proof of Jonathan’s innocence.

I just thought that Mystery Woman showing up alive would, at the very least, cause some doubt with Jonathan's imprisonment. Maybe he won't be acquited but he certainly would have the case not as open and shut as the police were led to believe. I mean, a woman who looks like the murdered woman suddenly shows up? I guess they could say she's also a twin who showed up to exact revenge on the Black brothers, which I assume they'll try to do, but this does seem to be a turning point in Jonathan's case. I think it will benefit him. 

Also, in my mind, Cameron is the younger twin, but I could also see them switching it up to make him the older one. It's just that Cameron seems like the baby compared to Jonathan. 

Also, I had to look a bit closer at the end with Cameron revealing himself, but he has a pretty noticeable scar on his right side. What in the world did Mystery Woman do to him? 

[dargosmydaddy]

That was fun! Jonathan is my favorite character, so it was awesome to get a whole episode with him. And while I'm interested to get Cameron's end of the story next week, I hope it's not the entire episode, because I would miss Jonathan (and, to a lesser degree, some of the other secondary characters). I am curious to see if Cameron ends up crossing paths with them (perhaps in a different disguise) before the auction, too. And yes, add me to those who figured out Cameron was Henri as soon as Henri appeared. (The fact that Cameron ripping off a previous disguise is part of the opening also helped plant that seed.)

So did I understand correctly that the auction house is designed to kill a thief in that room (hence the de-pressurization)? Whaaat? I could see such a room being part of an evil laboratory or a villain's lair or something, but I would kind of think the police (or the FBI) might frown upon a legit auction house actively trying to kill thieves.

7 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

17 hours ago, ursula said:

guess next week will be mostly a repeat of this episode but from Cam's PoV, which is all kinds of ingenious.

I think the Simpsons many years ago aired an episode with various character viewpoints about one particular story line.

It's a fairly common trope to have an episode switching from different characters' perspectives (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RashomonStyle?from=Main.TheRashomon), or heck even a whole series (Boomtown), but I like the idea of the back-to-back episodes from each twin's perspective, since for the most part we don't even know where Cameron was for most of this.

And finally, did anyone else notice Johnny's limp? I've missed parts of a few episodes (I'm usually flipping back and forth between this and Timeless), so I don't know if this was seen or explained before, but he had a weird hitch to his walk in a few of the early scenes (after he left the prison, but before the Octagon). I know he's gotten beat up a few times, but I don't remember him hurting his leg. I don't know, maybe Cutmore-Scott just has a strange gait and I never noticed before, but it caught my eye tonight.

[dargosmydaddy]

Video with Jack Cutmore Scott from before the premiere. Apparently he does all the (small scale) illusions himself?! And I laughed that his American accent is described as a combination of his college roommate and Chandler from Friends...

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Culture/video/jack-cutmore-scott-dishes-series-deception-53624230

[italianguy626]

0.7 rating/3 share, 3.1 million viewers for Tuesday. Previous week, which was FTP, 0.5 rating/2 share 2.04 million viewers. So, Deception did improve over FTP.

[janeta]

So does Cutmore-Scott get paid double for playing two roles?   :-)

[Nessie]

4 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

Video with Jack Cutmore Scott from before the premiere. Apparently he does all the (small scale) illusions himself?! And I laughed that his American accent is described as a combination of his college roommate and Chandler from Friends...

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Culture/video/jack-cutmore-scott-dishes-series-deception-53624230

Thanks for that!  I wonder how hard it is for him to maintain the American accent (which I think is pretty good) when he's in scenes with Vinnie Jones and Lenora Crichlow?  I think it would be harder with Lenora, since her accent is much more similar to his than Vinnie's is.

[LakeGal]

I loved this episode. Best yet.

Jonathon has an edge while Cameron has the charisma.

I do not think they will kill off either twin.

My one problem was Jonathan not recognizing his own twin when  I realized it right away.

[Koalagirl]

12 hours ago, LakeGal said:

I loved this episode. Best yet.

Jonathon has an edge while Cameron has the charisma.

I do not think they will kill off either twin.

My one problem was Jonathan not recognizing his own twin when  I realized it right away.

I think Jonathan did recognize Cameron for a moment but I have to go back and rewatch.  It was just before the auction started and they caught each other's eye for a brief moment.

[Netfoot]

So, is this show now permanently on Tuesdays?

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, Netfoot said:

So, is this show now permanently on Tuesdays?

Next episode is on Sunday.

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, Netfoot said:

So, is this show now permanently on Tuesdays?

No, it was just a special episode, probably because they needed a special night for an extra episode that didn't fit in their schedule, so it replaced a repeat of another new show.

1 hour ago, Koalagirl said:

I think Jonathan did recognize Cameron for a moment but I have to go back and rewatch.  It was just before the auction started and they caught each other's eye for a brief moment.

I don't think he did; otherwise, he wouldn't have been as shocked at the end. I know he was frantic to get Henri/Cam out of the safe room, but that, I don't think was because he recognized his brother (or else I guarantee Jonathan would have dragged Cam out first). 

[bara007]

I think nowhere was established that the brothers have a bad relationship to begin with. I think it literally is just the opposite, they seem very co-dependent…! No wonder.

But there may be many different ways to interpret their story, as I see on this board – depends how you fill in the gaps, of the story we had seen so far! Which I find very interesting.

I think the opinion of their animosity comes from a scene, in an earlier episode, just in the begging of it – when Jonathan is calling Cameron, and he starts talking about this street artist, as if nothing was wrong… I think Cameron was just lost in the moment, his brother rings up his cell as normal, he is cheerful, and for a while he forgot about all his troubles and where he is….

And Jonathan hearing that, the cheerful tone, refused to get sucked into it, it is too hurtful for him, so he just snaps at him, something the sense – “I don’t wanna hear about your life!”. Then Cameron wakes up a bit.

I think that we meant, I don’t want to hear about it never…it a reaction to all the tension going around. I don’t think it was meant as Cameron being selfish.

On a second similar instance, this time when Cameron calls him to talk about their father, love life etc. - and Jonathan, who is now working on the case with the cops as well thanks to his brother arrangement, realizing the importance of this whole thing, thinks that he is being called up in some emergency and development …. At first he was cranky when he finds out he isn’t - but he eases into it, listens and tries to help his brother in a way, which closes with both of them laughing slightly at the end.

I think while they were probably used to talking to each other a lot before – being that there was no one much other to talk to about their situation and stuff - so this whole situation must be putting a lot of strain on them.

On Cameron’s side there is quite a feeling of loneliness as well. As if he has taken on more of a motherly role now towards his brother.

And as to him “living his own life”, it seems to me he doesn’t much have any – he put all things on hold trying to help his brother get out of there, when he believes him that he was tricked and framed.

[Sandman]

So Jonny gets a more active role in getting to the bottom of the mystery of ... Mystery Woman. (And her groovy mutation, baby!)

I take it we haven't seen the last of Billy Zane, either.

[Sandman]

I really dig the fact that the relationship between the brothers is one of the key plot threads (hence our discussion); their sibling dynamic could not be realized so fully if Cutmore-Scott weren't able to distinguish them as ably -- the dual role aspect recedes into the background because they feel real, and so their closeness feels real.

That might be the niftiest trick the show is pulling off.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Sandman

[Charlesman]

I know that no one, least of all ABC, has the sheer balls to do it, but, this show would be amazing if they killed off the lead character seven episodes into the first season and replaced him with Jonathan. 

Tell the D.O.C. that the criminal brother died, have everyone start calling Jonathan "Cameron", and move right along with the plot. It would be stunningly crazy.

[Dowel Jones]

On 4/25/2018 at 2:46 PM, Lady Calypso said:

I don't think anything could have been used to keep the door open, though. It WAS a steel door designed to keep people in or out, so he didn't have time to find something equally as heavy to prop the door open. 

I won't belabor the point, as obviously is was necessary plot-wise, but, if I remember correctly, there were several cabinets in the vault, plus that painting (hey, my life or the painting?  Sorry, Rembrandt).  The operation of the vault depended on the negative air pressure to keep the door closed, and I don't think there's any way the electric motors or whatever drove the door could overcome that kind of obstruction.  And, yes, there would be serious legal and civil repercussions to actually depriving a person of breathable air in order to stop a theft.

 

On 4/25/2018 at 2:46 PM, Lady Calypso said:

Also, I had to look a bit closer at the end with Cameron revealing himself, but he has a pretty noticeable scar on his right side.

Was that from the beatdown that Jonathan gave him, thinking he was Henri?

[Lady Calypso]

8 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Was that from the beatdown that Jonathan gave him, thinking he was Henri?

I don't think so? It was underneath his disguise, so I feel like it was before the heist, but I could be wrong. Plus, all Jonathan did was knock him out with a punch and a kick. 

[Superpole2000]

I got sucked in by the beautiful woman who of course seems to be unnamed. This was the first episode I have watched, and...oh man. I just can't with the incessant background music, fancy camera pans, slowmos, and zooms, nonsensical plots, and flippant remarks from the lead actor who is of course Mr. Jokester in suspenseful situations. It's as if Gossip Girl had sex with a Bond movie, and this disappointing offspring was the result.

[Guest]

Jonathan is wonderful. The flashback scenes tugged at my heart for sure.

This episode was a lot to take in and should have ramifications going forward.

[Lady Calypso]

That was a pretty solid second parter. I liked the focus on Cameron, even when I thought he was being an idiot at times.

I totally see why Cameron would help Mystery Woman out. He did try to escape twice before she revealed the information to exonerate Jonathan. I get why he would stay and help. I like the twist that Jordan was in on it. 

So, Mystery Woman didn't account for Jonathan getting out and then she became impressed by him when he solved the riddle. I gotta admit, though, Cameron and Mystery Woman's team-up was intriguing. I laughed at their setup when they were swapping Henri with Cameron. Cam's exasperation at Mystery Woman's intent to kill Henri and do harm upon people instead of Cameron trying to save lives and do things in a showboaty way was hilarious. The sight of Cameron grabbing MW's knife to stop her from stabbing Henri while he was under a facemask was gold. Also, the "fake badge you idiot" card that she had made me chuckle. 

Nice explanation as to the scar I noticed on his face last episode, though. 

Honestly, if they decided to swap the crime with more spy stuff, I wouldn't object. It's actually fun now that they're not just doing a case of the week. I'm going to be disappointed when they go back to a regular procedural. 

It was great to see the return of Billy Zane. Too bad MW shot him. 

The continuity was a little off with the heist scene. For example, Cameron-as-Henri sat long before Jonathan finished with his trick. 

I do love that Cameron did, indeed, succeed with the heist. And I'm glad Cameron made it out ok. 

Jonathan and Cameron's relationship is what works for me. Cameron is so co-dependent on his brother that he'd do something stupid like trust the woman who kidnapped him just so he has a chance of getting the video. That flashback sequence of their father trapping Cameron in that bin was horrifying. I'm glad that Jonathan was there for Cameron when their father was pushing him. Seriously, their father is definitely in on something with MW....who actually knew Jonathan, not Cameron, as a kid. Hence, the whole "you took the wrong brother" thing? 

Now, I will be disappointed if this is a "I liked you when we were kids and still like you now" deal. I hope there's a twist of some sort. 

[Free]

1 hour ago, Superpole2000 said:

I got sucked in by the beautiful woman who of course seems to be unnamed. This was the first episode I have watched, and...oh man. I just can't with the incessant background music, fancy camera pans, slowmos, and zooms, nonsensical plots, and flippant remarks from the lead actor who is of course Mr. Jokester in suspenseful situations. It's as if Gossip Girl had sex with a Bond movie, and this disappointing offspring was the result.

Yeah, that was a little much, especially for this episode.

[AnimeMania]

13 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I laughed at their setup when they were swapping Henri with Cameron.

I thought the way that they gathered the items necessary to steal Henri's identity at the spa was brilliantly portrayed. The scenes in the auction house were garbage. The lack of visible auction house security guards ruined the credibility. I am surprised that crazy eye color lady didn't kill the guard at the auction house and instead left his body to be found by anybody walking down the street. I am pretty sure that that is the door she used to exit the auction house with the diamond in the previous episode, but I don't remember seeing a guard lying on the ground when she left.

Spoiler

I wonder why the FBI are so mad at Cameron next episode and they are going to need to release Jonathan from prison so that he can decode the diamond.

I wonder if Cameron remembered to tell the FBI to go to the motel and arrest that scumbag arms dealer Henri?

Edited April 30, 2018 by garnetarden
added spoiler tags

[mertensia]

I laughed all the way through the spa scene. 

Was Jack Davenport the father?