Good Girls - General Discussion

[Trini]

Rio's mole in the FBI -- thanks for reminding me of that dropped thread.

[iMonrey]

Quote

WTF with that finale?  So, the DA is going to drop that Ruby gave a law firm $30K in counterfeit money!?!?

We don't know that the lawyer told the Feds where he got the counterfeit money. It's unlikely he would have pointed to Ruby, he would have had to answer a lot of awkward questions about why he would accept that amount of cash from a client, so it might not turn out any better for him if he did.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Yes, there was a scene where we clearly the guy later revealed to be Turner's boyfriend. I'm thinking of another scene where there was someone lurking in the shadows. We never saw his face or heard his voice.

[Trini]

I just realized that while the show accelerated the Beth/Rio relationship this season, we've actually seen less of Rio's associates than we did in Season 1. I think there's only been his son, that lawyer that had one scene, and the woman who got one of his cars. Last year he actually had a gang. There was those people the girls visited to get the 'dubby' back, but I don't they really work with him, even though they're connected to his operation.

[PsychoDrone]

12 hours ago, iMonrey said:

We don't know that the lawyer told the Feds where he got the counterfeit money. It's unlikely he would have pointed to Ruby, he would have had to answer a lot of awkward questions about why he would accept that amount of cash from a client, so it might not turn out any better for him if he did.

The lawyer told Ruby, "You need to get a lawyer."  Pretty sure, he is not going to cover for her when his firm's reputation, and potentially going to jail, is on the line.  As I mentioned before, counterfeiting is the Secret Service's jurisdiction.  Once FBI discovered the counterfeiting,  SS would have been brought in.  The law firm, as well as Stan and Ruby, would still be under investigation.  DA wouldn't be able to "just drop it" because he/she was embarrassed from another investigation.  The show wrote Ruby to be careless with the counterfeit money, and it should have had serious consequences, but writers didn't want to go that route, so it's dropped.  All around poor writing.

[iMonrey]

I won't defend the writing because I agree it's rather lazy and asks a lot of the audience. But there's a chain of ownership here that's going to be troubling for the lawyer who deposited the phony cash into his bank account. Sure, he can tell the Feds he got it from Ruby, but can he prove it? Was he telling Ruby directly he planned to implicate her, or was he suggesting she lawyer up just in case they figured out where it came from? That was never made clear.

I wish they would drop the entire counterfeit part of the story altogether because it's the most implausible part of the show. It started out as a nice little story about some broke women robbing a grocery store then it delved into territory the writers clearly knew nothing about like money laundering and counterfeiting. 

Edited May 30, 2019 by iMonrey

[Jennabelle88]

On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 2:32 AM, LaMatadita said:

I've suspected that they were going to end the season with Beth killing Rio since the finale episode title popped up on YouTube several weeks ago, and I went back and forth about it with every episode.

What about the title name suggested that to you? Am I missing something?

On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 11:24 AM, helenamonster said:

I'd really like for Beth and Dean to go through with the divorce. It's just too messy to clean up at this point. They can reach a detente and respect each other as former spouses and people who share four kids together, but that ship has sailed for me.

I'm in the minority here, but I'm right the opposite! I want them to forgo the divorce and work it out. Not for the sake of the kids, but for the sake of all the years they've spent together. They obviously still love each other (You can't be married for umpteen years and have four kids together and just turn your feelings off.). And look how comfortable they were watching that movie (show?) together on the couch and laughing and falling asleep together. I was loving it!

On ‎5‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 6:01 AM, GussieK said:

Call me crazy, but what if Rio and Turner cooked up that last scene together and they were wearing bulletproof vests and used fake blood?  It’s no crazier than anything else we’ve seen. 

Then who were they "acting" for after Beth left? They were in an abandoned building...

On ‎5‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 12:33 PM, WAnglais1 said:

(dials 9-1)

"They say one is the loneliest number." Kinda clever, in 1972.

Why would a drug dealin', counterfeitin', guy like Rio not have a code on his phone? Or was it T's phone?  

It was definitely Rio's phone. Turner reached into Rio's jacket pocket and pulled it out.

[EtheltoTillie]

1 hour ago, Jennabelle88 said:

Then who were they "acting" for after Beth left? They were in an abandoned building...

It was definitely Rio's phone. Turner reached into Rio's jacket pocket and pulled it out.

Well, I said it was crazy LOL.  But the crazy thought crossed my mind.  It's like you can interpret their interaction as the exchange between two individuals who have made a deal with the devil to work together.  Rio is a cooperating informant or something.  

[LaMatadita]

I read this analysis of Good Girls today, and it lays out a lot of the issues I have with how the writers seem to be expecting fans to digest Season 2 and the finale vs. what was actually depicted on their show. It's a bit long, and the grammar is not 100% perfect, but for me, it made some really valid points, especially about Beth. Quite a bit of it is about Beth and Rio, but it's about their business partnership, not their romantic relationship, and the analysis touches on every other major character as well.

https://www.tvfanatic.com/2019/05/how-good-girls-portrayed-entitlement-victimhood-and-selective-ac/

12 hours ago, Jennabelle88 said:

What about the title name suggested that to you? Am I missing something?

It's a reference to Rio's line from the S1 finale/S2 premiere: "If you wanna be the King, you gotta kill the King."

[DangerousMinds]

14 hours ago, Jennabelle88 said:

What about the title name suggested that to you? Am I missing something?

I'm in the minority here, but I'm right the opposite! I want them to forgo the divorce and work it out. Not for the sake of the kids, but for the sake of all the years they've spent together. They obviously still love each other (You can't be married for umpteen years and have four kids together and just turn your feelings off.). And look how comfortable they were watching that movie (show?) together on the couch and laughing and falling asleep together. I was loving it!

Then who were they "acting" for after Beth left? They were in an abandoned building...

It was definitely Rio's phone. Turner reached into Rio's jacket pocket and pulled it out.

That movie was "Fast Times at Ridgemont High!"

[Jennabelle88]

8 hours ago, LaMatadita said:

It's a reference to Rio's line from the S1 finale/S2 premiere: "If you wanna be the King, you gotta kill the King."

Thank you! Idk how people can remember quotes from seasons ago. I don't remember that at all, but I see how it connects.

[Guest]

21 hours ago, Jennabelle88 said:

It was definitely Rio's phone. Turner reached into Rio's jacket pocket and pulled it out.

You can usually call 911 from a phone without unlocking it.

[Jennabelle88]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

You can usually call 911 from a phone without unlocking it.

I'm not arguing that point. Someone wanted to know whose phone it was. It was Rio's, not Turner's. You can call 911 from any phone, but that was not the question.

[dubbel zout]

There was a question about how Turner could call 911 from Rio's phone a page or two back.

[Jennabelle88]

5 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

There was a question about how Turner could call 911 from Rio's phone a page or two back.

Yes, but that was not the question I was responding to. Moving on... 

[Emily Thrace]

On 5/29/2019 at 6:48 PM, iMonrey said:

We don't know that the lawyer told the Feds where he got the counterfeit money. It's unlikely he would have pointed to Ruby, he would have had to answer a lot of awkward questions about why he would accept that amount of cash from a client, so it might not turn out any better for him if he did.

Yeah all he really has to say is "I'm a criminal attorney I obviously don't ask my clients where they all get there money" and invoke confidentially. Legally for all involved its easier to leave it there. Technically they could go after the lawyer but getting arround client privilege and the roadblocks the high priced lawyer would throw up make it not really worth prosecuting.  Equally the lawyer could give up Ruby but its a bad idea for a criminal attorney to give up his clients. Word gets around and they stop trusting him. Plus even an attorney at that level probably has a few clients who still believe snitches get stitches.

[TrininisaScorp]

My Sunday nights have been busy, and I'd fallen behind.  I binged the final few episodes.  Whew.  Damn.  Wut. 

Like many of you, I don't believe that Rio is dead (and I love Manny Montana, so I hope his character isn't gone).  It must be some sort of set-up. They went to great lengths to show us that Christopher's apartment has a camera, so I found that space instead of some abandoned warehouse a bit suspect. 

A few jumbled thoughts from these last few episodes:

1) I wonder what Rio's deal is.  Is he an informant?  Is he more than that?  

2) Mary Pat is a psycho.  Annie taking her down was hilarious.

3) Turner is just the worst.  He's such a dick.  Don't go to people's church.  Goodness.

4) Fuck Boomer, but I did laugh and laugh at how Annie pieced it together b/c of the fleshlight.  And I love June Squib, but I just want to smack her character. 

5) Still love Sam Huntington, but I wonder whether he's done on the show.  

[UncleChuck]

I read today that IRL--in Overland Park, KS (Near Kansas City) a band of criminals was arrested for counterfeiting.  Apparently they had the bright idea of altering $1 bills into $100 bills, then using the fakes to buy merchandise from chain stores and returning the items for cash at another location (gee--that scheme sounds familiar).  Unfortunately for the criminals, IRL they got caught!!!!

[qtpye]

10 hours ago, UncleChuck said:

I read today that IRL--in Overland Park, KS (Near Kansas City) a band of criminals was arrested for counterfeiting.  Apparently they had the bright idea of altering $1 bills into $100 bills, then using the fakes to buy merchandise from chain stores and returning the items for cash at another location (gee--that scheme sounds familiar).  Unfortunately for the criminals, IRL they got caught!!!!

Good lord, don’t get your crime strategies from tv shows. Next we’ll find out a high school chemistry teacher in Albuquerque was arrested for making meth.

[Samwise979]

I didn't realize this was back on until the season was about half way over so I waited until it came out on Netflix and just binged the whole thing. 

Is it just me or does anyone else have a heck of a time understanding anything Rio says? Every scene he was in I had to turn on the closed captioning. He mumbles too much. 

Reading everyone's comments, the consensus seems to be that Rio kidnapping Turner and trying to get Beth to kill him was a set up. Either to get blackmail material on her or get her in trouble with the police. Am I the only one that thought he was bringing Turner to her as a gift, that he thought she'd be pleased? Sort of like how a cat will bring you a dead mouse to say I love you. And then when he was trying to force her to shoot Turner, I thought that was him "teaching her" the next step in becoming a bad guy. 

Oh and since lots of posters are coming up with some crazy theories, here is mine. The title of the episode is referencing Rio saying "if you wanna be the king, you gotta kill the king" (thank you posters above) and he at one point called Turner "boss"... Is Turner actually a bad guy/the king?? And Rio was trying to get him out of the way but didn't want to get blood on his hands?? (Sorry to big brother fans who hear that expression way too much 😜)

[LaMatadita]

8 hours ago, Samwise979 said:

Reading everyone's comments, the consensus seems to be that Rio kidnapping Turner and trying to get Beth to kill him was a set up. Either to get blackmail material on her or get her in trouble with the police. Am I the only one that thought he was bringing Turner to her as a gift, that he thought she'd be pleased? Sort of like how a cat will bring you a dead mouse to say I love you. And then when he was trying to force her to shoot Turner, I thought that was him "teaching her" the next step in becoming a bad guy.

I think most of the things he did this season were a little bit of both. He was lowkey setting her up for the first 4 or 5 episodes, but he was also putting some things on her to show her what it's like to have that responsibility and be "King." He was being near her to use her, but also using her to be near her. He was being a boss (and a dad) and trying to protect himself, but also being her mentor and trying to show her how to not get killed. Everything he did kind of plays both ways, and I'm not sure if that's just the writers being wishy-washy and wanting viewers to make up their own narrative (which IMO is really lazy, especially considering how betrayed many fans felt at the end of the season), or if he was really that split down the middle. I don't really think any of the more emotional moments we saw from him from 2x07 to 2x09 were an act, but I also don't get where his breaking point was after 2x10 because they didn't show it to us.

I will say that if he really wanted to take her down, he passed up the perfect opportunity to very neatly set her up and watch her fall in 2x10. He knew the FBI raid was happening and that the dealership would be useless for laundering money after that, so he could have put all the fake cash back in the storage locker then, not warned Beth, and let her take the fall. He didn’t. He passed it up, only to come up with a completely stupid and insane plan to accomplish that 2-3 episodes later.

So while it definitely seems like the writers want viewers to believe that there was never anything interesting under that tough crime boss exterior and he was always just a stereotypical macho gangbanger setting her up to either control her or take her down, to this viewer, it seemed like something happened to him offscreen that we didn't see. The last we saw of him, he was pretty successfully fronting "the opposite of love is apathy" and telling Beth she's "work," so him taking a manic, crazy turn just seemed to come out of nowhere. Every other time we've seen that really abrasive part of his personality, it still seemed controlled, like he was using that scary persona in a very precise way to get things done, but that whole finale scene just felt like there was some kind of manic energy and sense of desperation running through Rio and he was not in control, and the writing gave no real explanation as to why. It's possible that it was a miscalculation by the actor or the director, but if it was, they definitely leaned into it when they added the music. 

And on top of that, nothing about his plan actually makes sense. First of all, why does he think Beth is suddenly capable of murder when she's been unable to do that all season? And I'm supposed to believe that a career criminal was suddenly stupid enough to try to set Beth up for murder in his own former apartment and using his own gun (which didn't even have a silencer), in addition to being dumb enough to show her the conveniently placed camera in that same apartment? Not to mention that other people lived in that apartment building, so he was apparently willing to risk the neighbors hearing gunshots and/or being seen and having someone wonder why their nice neighbor Christopher was leading a blindfolded, crying woman through the halls... How does ANY of that incriminate Beth more than it incriminates Rio? I just can't with how stupid that whole plot was. If Rio is this stupid, why should we or Beth even be afraid of him next season? He is clearly the worst villain ever, lol. Maybe they can surprise us all and use him for comic relief?

8 hours ago, Samwise979 said:

he at one point called Turner "boss"... Is Turner actually a bad guy/the king?? And Rio was trying to get him out of the way but didn't want to get blood on his hands??

I noticed this, too, and I've definitely wondered before if there's more to Turner and Rio than meets the eye, especially given how Rio seemed to just snap and go crazy out of nowhere.

Honestly, though, I think it was just stupid writers making the character look stupid because all they were thinking about was character assassination (literally and figuratively!). For me personally, it felt like the show teased that there might be something interesting under that tough crime boss exterior for most of the season... and then the writers pulled the rug out and said "Nope, we don't need him to be an actual person, just a bad boy gangbanger stereotype who functions as a really attractive plot device to propel Beth along on her journey! He kidnapped her and called her a bitch! He's awful, right? Aren't you looking forward to seeing him come back as a one-note villain next season?" When Beth gets to refuse to accept any accountability for her own decisions and actions, Dean gets a redemption arc, and Boomer the serial rapist gets to play hero at the prompting of his racist grandmother while the writers double-down on not developing the only Latin character on the show while pumping 3 bullets into his chest... it's hard not to see those writing decisions as being unavoidably racially charged, even if they weren't intended to be.

Yeah. That was long. But when the writers leave so much to the imagination, there's a lot to work through! I could easily write this much about Beth, too... 

Edited June 8, 2019 by LaMatadita

[Trini]

On 6/7/2019 at 9:50 PM, Samwise979 said:

Reading everyone's comments, the consensus seems to be that Rio kidnapping Turner and trying to get Beth to kill him was a set up. Either to get blackmail material on her or get her in trouble with the police. Am I the only one that thought he was bringing Turner to her as a gift, that he thought she'd be pleased? Sort of like how a cat will bring you a dead mouse to say I love you. And then when he was trying to force her to shoot Turner, I thought that was him "teaching her" the next step in becoming a bad guy. 

I'm with LaMatadita, in that I think it is a bit of 'all of the above'.

I also agree that scene feels contrary to what they had been setting up with Beth and Rio for most of the season; and I'm disappointed that now Rio is probably going to be gone at the start of Season 3, then only brought back to make trouble for Beth. ::sigh::

[LaMatadita]

On 6/8/2019 at 8:47 PM, Trini said:

I also agree that scene feels contrary to what they had been setting up with Beth and Rio for most of the season; and I'm disappointed that now Rio is probably going to be gone at the start of Season 3, then only brought back to make trouble for Beth. ::sigh::

In retrospect, I definitely think that 2x11 through 2x13 was supposed to be Rio's "villain arc" to ease viewers into the idea, it was just really poorly done. For one thing, it came out of nowhere. We went from him warning her about the FBI raid in 2x10 to him sending her corpse bits in the mail and telling her he wants her to be his money laundering slave forever in 2x11. As a viewer, I have no idea what to make of that. The fact that he gets so little screentime didn't help, either. That shift from cool and controlled to crazy stalker across those 3 episodes consisted of literally 4 scenes, 2 of which he wasn't even on screen for, so it's no wonder many fans hadn't caught up by the time that finale scene came around and were left feeling shocked and dismayed. The fact that they gave him no PoV to make his motivation or breaking point clear makes the whole season feel like a "Choose Your Own Adventure" when it comes to Rio.

As far as S3, I don't know if they can afford to hold him back for very long. Their promo department loves him, and I wouldn't be surprised if a sizable chunk of viewers watch just for his 3 minutes of screen time, regardless of whether they're 'shippers or not. I could see them holding off for an episode or 2 to build suspense, but more than that seems like a risk. I'm curious as to whether they'll take advantage of his time away from Beth to finally give him his own PoV or if he'll just become a prop in Turner's scenes now.

If they make S3 be Rio's Revenge Part 3, that's going to feel pretty stale to me. Like a dark and twisted version of coyote and roadrunner--there's no dramatic tension because you know he's just going to lose. I'd rather see a fakeout where it looks like that's where it's going at first, and then it unexpectedly goes in another direction (that hopefully isn't "Beth shoots Rio in the head this time.")

Edit: A reddit user did a post-S2 poll and the results just came out. It's a fairly small sample size (just under 350 people), but that community is probably fairly indicative of the overall viewership, certainly moreso than the fangirl-heavy social media communities. Here's the poll. 

Edited June 10, 2019 by LaMatadita
Added link

[Trini]

Good Girls showrunner Jenna Bans took part in this Writers Room Panel for Variety (video): https://variety.com/video/walking-dead-catch-22-writers-room/

And the article about the panel with clips: https://variety.com/2019/tv/news/wga-ata-showrunners-a-night-in-the-writers-room-1203243292/

Some of Bans' comments make me think that a lot of the twists in this show weren't planned out. (I suspect that Boomer being alive the whole time wasn't the plan when they "killed" him near the start of the season.)

[Trini]

Watched the finale again, a few things that stuck out for me:

After spending so much time showing that Dean is a terrible husband and that he and Beth (who has also made mistakes) would be better off apart, I don't know why they are hinting at them getting back together. I don't want it.

In her scene with Ruby, Beth takes responsibility for a lot of the things the Girls have done, but then later with Rio she blames him. And I know both scenes are not talking about the exact same things, and there are shades of gray for all involved, but the contrast was interesting.

I'm sure this has happened before, but I've never seen a show tease a couple (Beth/Rio) so hard then literally shoot that relationship dead. I don't see how they can come back from that, either as romantic or business partners.

And this seems like a big plot hole to me: Exactly what kind of deal could Turner make with Rio?? Didn't this whole thing start with the FBI trying to get Rio and his criminal organization, and Beth was just a means to get to him? She's literally at the lowest level; I hope whatever 'favor' Turner wants from Rio doesn't involve going after Beth & co. yet again.

In summary, I don't like the direction things seem to be headed in for next season, and I don't think I'll be watching. ... I said that last season, but I'm less inclined to give the show a third chance.

[Captain Asshat]

8 hours ago, Trini said:

And this seems like a big plot hole to me: Exactly what kind of deal could Turner make with Rio?? Didn't this whole thing start with the FBI trying to get Rio and his criminal organization, and Beth was just a means to get to him? She's literally at the lowest level; I hope whatever 'favor' Turner wants from Rio doesn't involve going after Beth & co. yet again.

IIRC, when Turner was introduced in S1, he said that he wanted to get to Rio's boss, but doesn't know who that is. If that's the case, that's the deal. He used Beth to get to Rio, I'm pretty sure that Rio will survive, and Turner's going to use him to get to Rio's boss. Total speculation on my part, but given Rio's wardrobe and fancy digs (inside what looks to be a rathole apartment building), it wouldn't surprise me if Rio's a total Kaiser Soze.

Edited June 21, 2019 by Captain Asshat
Noun/pronoun agreement is important

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Trini said:

Didn't this whole thing start with the FBI trying to get Rio and his criminal organization, and Beth was just a means to get to him?

That's the biggest part of the Turner story that has seemed off to me. It seems like along the lines, his motive went from catching the big fish to catching Beth. Which, if Beth is all he could get would make sense - but the finale seemed to be setting him up to make a deal with Rio to get Beth. In what world would an FBI agent make a deal with a bigger crime boss to get a much smaller criminal.

[LaMatadita]

10 hours ago, Trini said:

In her scene with Ruby, Beth takes responsibility for a lot of the things the Girls have done, but then later with Rio she blames him. And I know both scenes are not talking about the exact same things, and there are shades of gray for all involved, but the contrast was interesting.

I also found it interesting that Beth took responsibility to the point where she was willing to confess to a murder she didn't commit in order to keep Ruby and Annie out of it, but then by the end of the episode she was trying to pull both women right back into the criminal activity.

I think the writers really screwed up Beth's character arc in the finale. All season, it felt like they were taking her down the "Beth gradually becomes more and more ruthless" path, which, to me, is pretty realistic. It also felt like Beth was using Rio for sex and money like some kind of crime boss sugar daddy and expecting him to fix her messes but not wanting to accept any responsibility or get her hands dirty. But in the end, the writers let Beth flirt with being a "bad girl" in S2, then allowed her to deny responsibility and plant it all squarely on Rio's shoulders, meaning that she is still a "good person" and will try to operate her new criminal enterprise the "good" way.

The writing indicated very clearly, even in the last few episodes, that Beth is engaging in the criminal activity at this point because she chooses to and she likes it. I was okay with that when it seemed like she was heading down a darker path, but I find the idea of a white suburban mom choosing a life of crime for kicks and managing to do it in some sort of morally "good" way to be incredibly offensive. Most criminals didn't wake up one day and just decide to be criminals--it's usually something they're pushed into due to desperation and/or repeated failure at other endeavors, or it's something they're manipulated into at a very young age. I find it much more believable that Rio, as a young Latin male in Detroit, had a more sympathetic, or at least equally sympathetic, reason to get involved in gang/criminal activity than Beth did. But oh, if anyone can do crime the "good" way, it's a cookie-baking white suburban housewife! How are the writers not seeing how racially charged this is? (And that's on top of the racially problematic elements of Rio's inconsistent characterization and what went down between Beth and Rio in the finale, as well as the writing for Dean, Boomer, and Stan...)

They are seemingly justifying her belief that she can pick and choose which parts of the criminal lifestyle she wants to engage in--namely the thrills, the power, the money, and the strategic planning--while avoiding the distasteful parts, and it's ridiculous, condescending, and offensive. Rio did some messed up things, but it still bugs me that they painted the pragmatic criminal who called her out on her self-delusions and forced her into taking responsibility for a few things as being the Big Bad Wolf in the end, and then painted Beth as his unwitting victim who can therefore ignore everything he said and try to lead some kind of Robin Hood-esque counterfeit ring when she still knows next to nothing about how to be a successful criminal. If she's not due for a mid-season wake up call, then these writers are about as delusional as Beth.

11 hours ago, Trini said:

I'm sure this has happened before, but I've never seen a show tease a couple (Beth/Rio) so hard then literally shoot that relationship dead. I don't see how they can come back from that, either as romantic or business partners.

There's quite a bit of evidence that points to there being either some kind of personality clash or issue between Christina and Manny or at least the lead actresses having a strong objection to continuing to pair Beth and Rio romantically because they thought it was distracting viewers. It definitely comes off like that relationship was burned to the ground to make someone happy behind the scenes. I can't imagine any other reason why a sane showrunner would deliberately kill that kind of onscreen chemistry, especially when that's why the actor was kept on the show in the first place.

2 hours ago, Captain Asshat said:

IIRC, when Turner was introduced in S1, he said that he wanted to get to Rio's boss, but doesn't know who that is. If that's the case, that's the deal. He used Beth to get to Rio, I'm pretty sure that Rio will survive, and Turner's going to use him to get to Rio's boss. Total speculation on my part, but given Rio's wardrobe and fancy digs (inside what looks to be a rathole apartment building), it wouldn't surprise me if Rio's a total Kaiser Soze.

There's been a lot of discussion amongst viewers in various places about how much power Rio has in the criminal world and whether or not there is anyone above him pulling his strings, so I don't think him having a boss was ever mentioned in the show, and I don't recall that myself. However, Rio was supposed to be killed off around the middle of the first season and replaced with a Bigger Bad, so that was probably their original intent. There's definitely something unusual going on with his character, so they better deliver on Beth's "WHO is he?" next season.

11 hours ago, Trini said:

In summary, I don't like the direction things seem to be headed in for next season, and I don't think I'll be watching. ... I said that last season, but I'm less inclined to give the show a third chance.

Good Girls was my fun guilty pleasure show, but the writers ruined every single thing I enjoyed about the show in the finale and gave me every single thing I did not want, so I'm with you. I might keep up with the show from the sidelines, and if it feels like the writers actually tried to fix some of the mistakes they made in S2, I might give it another shot, but otherwise, I'm out.

[Guest]

I feel like the writers tried to write for a morally gray character multiple times and just frankly weren't any good at it.

We've seen Beth go from stealing from perceived desperation (and I say perceived because she had plenty of options that didn't involve theft) to being forced into it to liking the additional money and power to quitting multiple times to more desperation to doing it for the thrill to being a victim.  

[LaMatadita]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

I feel like the writers tried to write for a morally gray character multiple times and just frankly weren't any good at it.

We've seen Beth go from stealing from perceived desperation (and I say perceived because she had plenty of options that didn't involve theft) to being forced into it to liking the additional money and power to quitting multiple times to more desperation to doing it for the thrill to being a victim.  

I think what killed Beth as a character for me is that Jenna Bans and Bill Krebs (who I assume is the head writer, because he wrote both the premiere and the finale, as well as a mid-season episode) expressed their own personal opinions that Beth is at heart a good person. It's one thing for Beth to think she's a good person and to portray her relationship to crime as being all over the place because I've always seen her as somewhat selfish and self-delusional, and I don't think I'm alone in that. But when the writers are backing up the idea that Beth is a good person with their own personal opinions, they're essentially telling viewers what to think of Beth and what to expect in the future, and nothing about the picture they've painted is interesting to me, but it is very problematic.

Edited June 21, 2019 by LaMatadita

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

In what world would an FBI agent make a deal with a bigger crime boss to get a much smaller criminal.

I get the frustration that Beth doesn't cave, but as others have mentioned, she's the smallest fish here. Why is Turner so obsessed with Beth when she's nothing? It's one of the glaring weak points in the whole plot. IRL, he'd likely have arrested her and threatened her with everything he could think of to have her give up Rio.

[Trini]

On 6/21/2019 at 1:32 PM, LaMatadita said:

Good Girls was my fun guilty pleasure show, but the writers ruined every single thing I enjoyed about the show in the finale and gave me every single thing I did not want, so I'm with you. I might keep up with the show from the sidelines, and if it feels like the writers actually tried to fix some of the mistakes they made in S2, I might give it another shot, but otherwise, I'm out.

If anything, I'll read others' comments/recaps first before deciding if I should spend time watching.

Edited June 23, 2019 by Trini
apostrophe!

[Trini]

New character, not cast yet, for Season 3:

Spoiler

“Annie, Beth and Ruby will definitely need and seek out the expertise of a graphic designer,” series creator Jenna Bans teases, before adding that this particular someone “might also be a suburban mom with a questionable background and has no interest in being a ‘good’ girl.”

https://tvline.com/2019/06/23/good-girls-season-3-cast-new-character-spoilers/

[LaMatadita]

This is a little interview with Retta and Jenna Bans about things to look forward to next season. It's mostly about Ruby, and Ruby and Stan, with a little bit about Beth and Rio at the end.

https://www.telltaletv.com/2019/06/jenna-bans-and-retta-on-good-girls-season-3-and-the-love-for-ruby-and-stan-exclusive-interview/

[debraran]

On 6/21/2019 at 1:32 PM, LaMatadita said:

There's quite a bit of evidence that points to there being either some kind of personality clash or issue between Christina and Manny or at least the lead actresses having a strong objection to continuing to pair Beth and Rio romantically because they thought it was distracting viewers. It definitely comes off like that relationship was burned to the ground to make someone happy behind the scenes. I can't imagine any other reason why a sane showrunner would deliberately kill that kind of onscreen chemistry, especially when that's why the actor was kept on the show in the first place.

There's been a lot of discussion amongst viewers in various places about how much power Rio has in the criminal world and whether or not there is anyone above him pulling his strings, so I don't think him having a boss was ever mentioned in the show, and I don't recall that myself. However, Rio was supposed to be killed off around the middle of the first season and replaced with a Bigger Bad, so that was probably their original intent. There's definitely something unusual going on with his character, so they better deliver on Beth's "WHO is he?" next season.

Good Girls was my fun guilty pleasure show, but the writers ruined every single thing I enjoyed about the show in the finale and gave me every single thing I did not want, so I'm with you. I might keep up with the show from the sidelines, and if it feels like the writers actually tried to fix some of the mistakes they made in S2, I might give it another shot, but otherwise, I'm out.

I"m not quite done with season 2 (been binging) but have seen the finale shooting in a clip somewhere on youtube at the end. I'm very disillusioned because it seems like the great chemistry between Beth and Rio (well more was Rio) was limited as many say, like the actress didn't like it. They cut scenes so limited contact was made, shots of hands etc but they could have had it even more sexy with just a little more foreplay in her bedroom. They know from social media, how popular Rio's character is and they end it that way? I don't believe he is dead but he can't have too much interaction after this. Not sure what happened but it seemed like the writers listened more to someone but not the fans.  One said in interview, "he ran his course, there was nothing left to do with him" but that's not true. The relationship might not continue the same way but he could.  I was hoping they humanized him more by having them discuss his son a little or his hopes for him. I hope the last interview posted is true and that the writing is a little more realistic within the fun of it not being that way. Tough balance.

I loved the show enough to binge a season over 3 days with my daughter and love Ruby and Stan the best but the writing is choppy.  They bring up the fake cancer, never have her mention it again, no curiosity about doctor etc. It's one thing to have him say it, another to bring others into the lie.  The girls are naive but shouldn't be stupid, the going back for the blanket was too dumb to be funny to me. Rio's line was funny about "not being herbal life" but please, it is fantasy/fiction  show but don't make them that naive.  Rio has an apartment that is so easily broken into? "Window never locks anyway"  lol  Loved the scene but they do stretch some concepts of being believable and could have written it differently. My husband is a cop and the obsession with Beth is not really explained except being personal.  Stan not knowing about how bogus the charges were, not having a union rep, not knowing abut chain of custody (miss OJ case?) not seeing results of test, just so out there. : ) 

Boomer: What was that? I always thought it was  Marypat's husband when kids said "daddy" but Rio didn't know or the grandmother didn't care? If I were MaryPat, I'd be very afraid he'd return. There wasn't enough time even on TV to do what she did . Glad no murder charges but a lot of holes.

I love the show, a guilty pleasure, but for me it was Rio and Ruby and her family that kept me interested.  I hope the direction doesn't change the great chemistry. Keeping fingers crossed, it will get better.

Edited July 5, 2019 by debraran

[debraran]

On 5/27/2019 at 10:44 AM, LaMatadita said:

I think what's upsetting is that they dropped a lot of hints that there was more to him than meets the eye but deliberately avoided making anything explicit so they could hit viewers with a "shocking twist." And the shocking twist was apparently that Rio is an "evil sexist Latino gangbanger stereotype," to paraphrase a Reddit user. He was never a good guy, but he at least seemed nuanced, and now he's just an insulting cliche.

Also, I have a LOT of questions, mostly regarding what went down between Rio, Beth, and Turner, because a lot of that did not completely add up for me in comparison to what the writers want viewers to believe.

1. Why did Rio tip Beth off to the presence of the camera? He is not stupid and obviously let her know it was there on purpose. If he was just setting her up to take the fall for killing Turner on camera, why let her know about the camera and risk tipping her off? And why would Rio not be implicated himself just for being there, regardless of who pulled the trigger?

2. That whole phone conversation between Beth and Rio was just weird. I know we were supposed to believe they were both being manipulative, but given how they left things the last time we saw them, it seemed pretty pointless on both their parts.

3. If he was just planning to frame Beth and get off scott free, why put all his shit in storage where she had access to it, AND hint to her that she should look there?

4. Why have Ruby comment on Rio's fancy clothes as if they've never seen him wear them before and have Beth wonder "WHO is he?" right after that, especially considering that fans were already wondering about the weird clothes in his closet a couple of episodes ago? Does any of this actually mean anything?

5. Why avoid showing Rio and Beth in the car when it's obvious fans are going to wonder if they conspired together and set the whole thing up? I don't think that's what actually happened because trusting a woman who has never shot anyone in her life to be able to shoot you nonfatally is the dumbest plan ever, but this was something the writers should have anticipated given the missing time because that often means something important went down that we didn't get to see.

6. Rio was telling Beth to give him the gun when she shot him. He reaches for the gun and says something like "Shut up, bitch, and just give me the-" and then she panics and shoots him. It seemed like he was going to let her have her way and just kill Turner himself, and she shot him before he could. It makes even less sense for him to expect her to give him the gun and then shoot her with it.

7. Edited to add this one: Why did Rio put a bag over her head? Like who the fuck else would be kidnapping her? Why did she need to be surprised to see him? He was trying to unsettle her enough to actually pull the trigger on Turner, I guess, and he miscalculated?

I don't like having so many questions--it feels like there was more going on than we were privy to, and I need answers.

I finally finished the series with my daughter tonight, had read a lot about it, but now that's it's officially done, I agree with all you wrote. I don't expect expert writing , not Law and Order, but I hope they were setting up some big curve balls and explain some things. The camera, the storage, it could be great writing or really, really awful if there is no conclusion. Let's throw stuff out and then let if all drop. 🙄

My daughter was asking me if she missed things, why was Rio so cold all of a sudden,he never sounded the way he was then,  why the move, why the kidnapping, nothing made sense. I doubt he was in lego land either but that is a moot point. He seemed almost like a different person. I liked how there was no update when Turner visited her about Rio and he's fine and she's cooking, she's cold as ice planning a new heist. I just can't warm up to  Beth, I don't know why. Something odd maybe to others but bothered me is, all the times they showed Rio's kid, in person, at the park, photos with dad, Beth, a mother of 4, who says she loves her family, never thought to ask Rio once about his son. Not even "What's his age" which wouldn't probe into his privacy much. As a mom  myself,  that seemed weird, The writers had her so into herself and what she wanted, I never feel sorry for her when she does dumb things and wants help.She made a lot of bad choices but still was in her insular world.  She got mad when he said he was just her boss, but she never made him anything else. Acquaintances know each other better than that.  The fans of his character wonder, who he is, who was his tennis partner, why the fancy clothes, did he work as a "fill in the blank" before and now he's undercover or trying to get out.  The police were made to look worse than "dumb and dumber" but the characters so likable in a way you forgave it.  I can see the cops redeemed if they planned some of it as a big ruse and wanted someone else, not Rio. The shooting was too scary though, Turner didn't know she wouldn't shoot him so I doubt that was fake but that scene seemed written in an hour. Anyone else think it didn't jive with the rest of the segments?

Like Rio or not, I can't fathom the writers setting up so much and letting it drop. If so, it's not as good as I thought it was.

Guess we'll see in 2020😉

This interview made Christina seem not to like Manny. I liked what Mae said about "Rio" love though.

Edited July 6, 2019 by debraran

[LaMatadita]

On 7/5/2019 at 2:16 AM, debraran said:

 

I'm very disillusioned because it seems like the great chemistry between Beth and Rio (well more was Rio) was limited as many say, like the actress didn't like it. [snip] They know from social media, how popular Rio's character is and they end it that way?

18 hours ago, debraran said:

This interview made Christina seem not to like Manny.

Considering that they put Rio on a short and sloppy villain arc out of nowhere in 2x11 and then started Dean on an equally short and sloppy redemption arc in the same episode, it seems obvious that they wanted to burn the 'Brio' relationship to the ground in the finale and send Beth back into Dean's arms, but it's also hard to believe the writers were dense enough to a) want to destroy the chemistry between those characters (which was why Manny was kept on the show in the first place), and b) think that's what their viewers would want to see. Combine that with the fact that Christina has always tensed up and seemed uncomfortable talking about Beth and Rio, plus the interview above, and it's easy to see why many fans started to wonder if the finale came about because Jenna Bans and the writers were trying to please Christina.

However, for what it's worth, Christina Hendricks and Jenna Bans both seem to be trying to do damage control now. Christina gave an interview around the beginning of June in which she was asked what it was like to kiss Manny, and her response was "Easy." She then went on to talk about what a great actor he is and how great their chemistry is, say that their working relationship is very professional and respectful, and say that she loves their scenes and they have fun shooting them. Bans also did the interview with Retta that I think you've already read, where she tries to hint that 'Brio' isn't over and says they have "a long road" ahead of them, but none of what she said showed any indication that she's aware of any criticism other than fangirls being mad that their relationship is over, which doesn't give me much hope for anything other than a repeat of S5 & 6 Buffy and Spike from Buffy the Vampire Slayer (but with admittedly better onscreen chemistry between the actors). It seems pretty obvious from Bans' comments that they intend to go the trash TV "This relationship is pure venom and going nowhere but you love it anyway because they're so hot together" route even though their relationship had seemed nuanced and interesting up until the finale. Personally, unless they backpedal on Rio's character assassination and go with "He snapped for a minute but he's not actually a sociopath" and flesh him out a bit more, as well as backpedal on their notion that Beth is still a "good person," I just won't have any interest in that relationship anymore.

On 7/5/2019 at 2:16 AM, debraran said:

My husband is a cop and the obsession with Beth is not really explained except being personal.

Yes, this confuses many other viewers as well. How is she more of a thorn in his side than Rio was? I kind of wonder if part of Turner's vendetta is racial, as in he's offended by this cute white housewife playing in the criminal sandbox and trying to front like she's still a good person and getting away with it, but NBC doesn't want the writers to make it that explicit? I saw her much the same way as Turner did, but I also thought that I was supposed to view her that way. I thought that the writers were aware of the problematic narrative they were establishing with her, but that they also planned to take her down a more villainous path in the end and therefore were not condoning her behavior, so I didn't mind and enjoyed her character. Their post-finale comments made me think otherwise, and now I can't stand her, which is a shame because she was actually my favorite.

On 7/5/2019 at 2:16 AM, debraran said:

I always thought it was  Marypat's husband when kids said "daddy" but Rio didn't know or the grandmother didn't care?

The fact that Rio had that body for weeks (or maybe even months?) and sent Beth little pieces of it but never realized it wasn't Boomer drives me insane. Either he had one of his cronies sawing off the parts and he never actually saw the body (in which case it would be helpful to let viewers know this), or some of the writers forgot that Rio knows what Boomer looks like.

18 hours ago, debraran said:

I just can't warm up to  Beth, I don't know why. Something odd maybe to others but bothered me is, all the times they showed Rio's kid, in person, at the park, photos with dad, Beth, a mother of 4, who says she loves her family, never thought to ask Rio once about his son. Not even "What's his age" which wouldn't probe into his privacy much. As a mom  myself,  that seemed weird, The writers had her so into herself and what she wanted, I never feel sorry for her when she does dumb things and wants help.She made a lot of bad choices but still was in her insular world.  She got mad when he said he was just her boss, but she never made him anything else. Acquaintances know each other better than that.

You hit the nail on the head. I am so confused as to whether the writers understand how the character they've written comes off to many viewers. I actually never, through 2 seasons of the show, saw Beth as actually giving a damn about Rio as a person--she wanted his approval and his desire, and she was physically attracted to him, but that was it. If anything, I saw more caring and concern from him towards her--the tough love "you're a drug dealer" speech, getting the dubby back, offering to get her money back from the "hitmen" Dean hired and telling her she needs to set boundaries, showing empathy about Dean taking the kids, being amused by her mismatched socks, warning her about the FBI raid--than I ever saw going the other way. In fact, I can't think of a single instance where she seemed to actually care about him. I initially thought that her watching him with go through his day and exploring his apartment was supposed to indicate that she realized and regretted the fact that she never tried to get to know him because they were actually more alike than she realized, but in the end apparently it was more about her realizing she really didn't know who he was because he was deceptive, even though she never asked.

I do get it, to some extent--she knows she got him arrested, she knows he shot her husband in retaliation, and so some part of her probably knew that he wasn't doing all of the things he did simply because he liked her. However, my overall impression was still that Rio finally allowed himself to care about her, but she was too self-absorbed to see it and ended up hurting him, which was not something he was equipped to handle, so he snapped. But is that how I was supposed to see it, or did they think I would understand and identify with Beth using him for sex and money and side with her simply because I'm a woman? (Not that he didn't use her, too, but even her reason for getting him arrested in S1 was self-absorbed nonsense, and I haven't forgotten that, so him forcing some of the weight onto her shoulders this season as a way of protecting himself in case she betrayed him again made sense.) Were the writers actually aware of the hypocrisy of Beth expecting Rio to get her out of her legal troubles when she got him arrested just a few months prior, or the hypocrisy of her being pissed that he ignored her calls when she blocked his number for weeks? Am I just supposed to handwave her shitty behavior because he snapped in the end, so he's worse? Am I supposed to actually care about Rio as much as I'm supposed to care about Beth? Is he a sociopath who is incapable of feeling anything other than anger and hurt pride, or is he an actual human who tries to suppress his emotions and snapped because he was hurt by the woman he had hoped would help to ease his loneliness? Do the writers even know? (I don't even see the point of keeping him on the show if it's the former, because that would eliminate any possibility for him to change and grow or make anything other than self-serving decisions, which means we'd always know where he stood. There would never be any exciting "Oooh, what choice will he make?" because the only answer is "The worst and most selfish one, duh." There is no dramatic tension between those characters when you know that one of them is 100% shithead.)

There is also the fact that I don't think Beth has ever even said Sadie's name on this show, despite the fact that she's his aunt, and I don't think she's ever talked about or interacted with Ruby's kids, either. She also acts more like a nanny than a mom to her own kids, IMO, so all of this stuff about her identifying as a mom and being so nurturing doesn't even ring true. She's been written and acted more like someone who was play-acting as the perfect wife and mother for 20 years, then woke up and realized it was all bullshit, but then there's that scene of her staring longingly at the family portrait in the finale and the writers saying she went home after shooting Rio and "realized" she still a good person because she loves her family (I'm pretty sure Rio loves his son, so can he also "realize" he's a good person?). There's also the fact that what Beth thinks, what Beth feels, and what Beth says are rarely the same, which is one of my favorite things about her character and part of why I found her fascinating, but the writers seemed to change up her narrative at the last second, and now I have no idea what to make of her. There's just such a huge disconnect between who the writers seem to think Beth is and who Beth actually is onscreen.

Edited July 6, 2019 by LaMatadita

[debraran]

40 minutes ago, LaMatadita said:

There is also the fact that I don't think Beth has ever even said Sadie's name on this show, despite the fact that she's his aunt, and I don't think she's ever talked about or interacted with Ruby's kids, either. She also acts more like a nanny than a mom to her own kids, IMO, so all of this stuff about her identifying as a mom and being so nurturing doesn't even ring true. She's been written and acted more like someone who was play-acting as the perfect wife and mother for 20 years, then woke up and realized it was all bullshit, but then there's that scene of her staring longingly at the family portrait in the finale and the writers saying she went home after shooting Rio and "realized" she still a good person because she loves her family (I'm pretty sure Rio loves his son, so can he also "realize" he's a good person?). There's also the fact that what Beth thinks, what Beth feels, and what Beth says are rarely the same, which is one of my favorite things about her character and part of why I found her fascinating, but the writers seemed to change up her narrative at the last second, and now I have no idea what to make of her. There's just such a huge disconnect between who the writers seem to think Beth is and who Beth actually is onscreen.

Yes, I meant to say that too. One of the reasons I really dislike her character is its so the "white privileged woman" but also so self centered. She could never care for Rio in her head because as the actress said, "So many better fish in the sea" That's not the point. I also believe producers  read social media even if she doesn't and told her to stop. ; )

  I also noticed the writers never giving her anything to say even in passing about her own niece or Ruby's kids except in an emergency. She leaves her kids post-it's and doesn't see them but wants custody? She makes fancy meals and cuts out sandwiches but is that for them or praise for her? When they told her no, re the cupcakes at school, they get thrown out in anger like a child.  How selfish of her but it was all about how they treated her. She goes to a crack house to get a blankie? My kids all had loveys but who would want that back now from them and Rio has to get it? She takes her kids there? So many moments that cemented my dislike of her character.  They give Rio Hummel's to sell in the beginning of the show. I know she's supposed to be bright and she was talented in sales, (maybe a bakery is a good idea) but they also made her void of common sense and kind of dense at times.  She pushes Rio away but then wants help with Turner. "Why aren't you answering your phone!" The great Beth is calling you.  It is lonely at the top. IDK, I'm glad I like he others but I doubt I'll warm up to her

I felt the sexual chemistry was more Rio except for a few moments between them. Even the bedroom scene seem stilted to me. But when he calls her "Elizabeth" and smiles, he makes up for it for both of them.  If the writers had their thinking caps on, they'll make that sexy voice say her name, the same way, the first time they meet again in Season 3.

I hope they can find a way to fix that last scene so it's believable and have all the characters grow a little so it doesn't get stale. Beth making money is a snore. I can't believe they showed all the little things about Rio Beth ignored, but meant it to be filler. I think mixed with the girls antics, it can be great season.

Edited July 6, 2019 by debraran

[Trini]

On 7/5/2019 at 9:08 PM, debraran said:

Something odd maybe to others but bothered me is, all the times they showed Rio's kid, in person, at the park, photos with dad, Beth, a mother of 4, who says she loves her family, never thought to ask Rio once about his son. Not even "What's his age" which wouldn't probe into his privacy much. As a mom  myself,  that seemed weird, The writers had her so into herself and what she wanted, I never feel sorry for her when she does dumb things and wants help.She made a lot of bad choices but still was in her insular world. 

I didn't notice that (I'm not a mother), but yeah, that was something else that they could have bonded over; but now in hindsight it's clear the writers weren't really committed to fleshing out Beth/Rio. Why even bring in his kid, if they weren't going to do anything with that?

 

Quote

She got mad when he said he was just her boss, but she never made him anything else. Acquaintances know each other better than that. 

Slightly disagree - they were something more when she began having sex with him. However, I agree with your overall point that Beth -- and the audience, I'll add -- should have been getting to know Rio more.
 

15 hours ago, LaMatadita said:

The fact that Rio had that body for weeks (or maybe even months?) and sent Beth little pieces of it but never realized it wasn't Boomer drives me insane. Either he had one of his cronies sawing off the parts and he never actually saw the body (in which case it would be helpful to let viewers know this), or some of the writers forgot that Rio knows what Boomer looks like.

On 7/5/2019 at 9:08 PM, debraran said:

The shooting was too scary though, Turner didn't know she wouldn't shoot him so I doubt that was fake but that scene seemed written in an hour. Anyone else think it didn't jive with the rest of the segments?

Like Rio or not, I can't fathom the writers setting up so much and letting it drop. If so, it's not as good as I thought it was.

From interviews, etc., it seems there's a lot of making stuff up as they go along; which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but then this show ends up with dropped plots, non-sensical twists, and out-of-character moments. It doesn't give me hope for next season.

[Anela]

He never made himself anything else, either. It's not like she could just decide that he was her boyfriend now. 

[Guest]

23 hours ago, debraran said:

One of the reasons I really dislike her character is its so the "white privileged woman"

Yes! I watched a couple early episodes on Netflix and it is so obvious. Ruby steals because her daughter was dying. Beth steals because she doesn’t want to lose their huge house. It never occurs to her to get a job. It never occurs to her she should know about her family’s finances.

[debraran]

12 minutes ago, deaja said:

Yes! I watched a couple early episodes on Netflix and it is so obvious. Ruby steals because her daughter was dying. Beth steals because she doesn’t want to lose their huge house. It never occurs to her to get a job. It never occurs to her she should know about her family’s finances.

Preach!  I know! I had a mom who was married in the 50's and knew every dime that came in and out (except for a life ins policy my dad had at work) I'm the same way and my young adult children. I've seen this when I worked at a rich community center, the horror of finding out their husbands were rich on outside but little equity anywhere. How clueless can you be? Just spend and never see it leave an account? She never thought of anything but a quick fix. She didn't do that for her kids, they didn't need the house and tree house, she did it for her. I never had sympathy for women who take no responsibility for knowing their own home and finances. She wanted Rio to keep saving her, she left her pearls and then wanted it to go her way. I feel the others liked it too but felt a little guiltier, at least Ruby because she wanted to save her daughter. 

There's a lot of things she could be good at, sales, baking, but she'll sell out to the adrenaline rush, which the show is made on. She might get back with hubby because it's easier, more money to spend but time will tell.

[dubbel zout]

4 hours ago, deaja said:

It never occurs to [Beth] she should know about her family’s finances.

Wasn't Dean doing something fishy, at the very least, with their money? I know he wasn't some innocent lamb, at any rate. It's a bit unfair to ding Beth for not knowing about that. I agree it's a bit ridiculous she immediately turned to crime to get some easy cash, but that's the premise of the show: Suburban moms take drastic measures to save their families.

I look at the kids here the same way I do on a soap, as a plot point, so we see/hear them when the plot demands it. So I don't care I never see the kids or don't hear much about them.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Wasn't Dean doing something fishy, at the very least, with their money? I know he wasn't some innocent lamb, at any rate. It's a bit unfair to ding Beth for not knowing about that. I agree it's a bit ridiculous she immediately turned to crime to get some easy cash, but that's the premise of the show: Suburban moms take drastic measures to save their families.

I look at the kids here the same way I do on a soap, as a plot point, so we see/hear them when the plot demands it. So I don't care I never see the kids or don't hear much about them.

He took out a second mortgage and a home equity line. Horrible to not tell his spouse, but not fishy in an illegal way. 

[dubbel zout]

I thought he'd started to do something fishy with the family dough. My mistake.

[debraran]

In our state and i think most,you need the wife's signature but they may have bought the house only in his name (but odd today) because it causes issues later. I know i couldn't have in CT and although Ruby did a payday loan that way, forging, with a bank, my husband had to be physically there to sign. I liked that though, never assume or take someone's word for it when it's a lot of money or debt.

Maybe Beth wont be a clueless now, but you should always know what is in your bank accounts, what balances you have, why a huge deposit or withdrawal. I check mine daily and would know if it was zero or overdrawn and it's also a good idea in real life because of fraud. A friend found something on her credit card from months ago and it was harder to get off than if it was more recent.

The script wouldn't work in this show with common sense, lots of poetic licence, but in real life, a good thing. ; )

Edited July 8, 2019 by debraran

[Guest]

10 hours ago, debraran said:

In our state and i think most,you need the wife's signature but they may have bought the house only in his name (but odd today) because it causes issues later

This is a good point. In Michigan law, where the show is set, this wouldn't be allowed. I remember my realtor telling me we could do a loan in a joint name with my husband or just with me without him due to Michigan law.  This wasn't that long ago either.

[debraran]

2 hours ago, deaja said:

This is a good point. In Michigan law, where the show is set, this wouldn't be allowed. I remember my realtor telling me we could do a loan in a joint name with my husband" or just with me without him due to Michigan law.  This wasn't that long ago either.

Yes it is a safety issue.  Michigan said on a loan site :Even if you take out a mortgage without your spouse, the lender may want him to sign some of the paperwork in order to protect the lender's lien on your house and ensure he's at least knowledgeable the loan exists."

For pete's sake, why would they want any spouse anywhere to be in the dark? Anything to loan money. ; )

When this happened on Million little Things, some fans checked the laws and saw it couldn't have happened the way it was written but fiction is fiction. I suppose the writers might be a little more careful though in the future with legal issues.

[Raja]

He was a crook, not as much as the wife turned out to be but a crook with contacts to the loan industry through the auto dealership. I can just head canon that he forged the spouse's signature for the loan.

[debraran]

Yes that’s why I was glad even when hubby groaned , citizens bank had us both there in person with ID for equity loan .  Better safe than sorry . 

I thought the lying  about cancer was  ok script until he dragged in fake doctors etc and paid him off. So many crimes, so little time ...