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David T. Cole

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I am quite irritated with Agustin (big surprise there), but I'm almost more irritated with Patrick for not sticking up for Richie right then and there, and even more so for not so much as introducing him to his boss and that comment about "oh, but you'll want to get your own [hair] place eventually".  Like, what does Patrick have to prove to any of these people?  I get wanting your friends to like your significant other, but Richie is basically the greatest from what we've seen so far, and he deserves better.

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You are absolutely correct about that, Fiferoo. Richie is blatantly awesome. Though as John said in this week's EHG, I do give props to the show for making Patrick and Agustin's dysfunctional friendship seem believable. I totally buy they way they are together, even if it drives me crazy.

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I guess it's been alluded to before, but explicitly finding out that Augustine is a rich kid explains a lot about his character.  It all kind of clicked into place for me when Frank was ripping him a new one. 

What a great show - it's such a nice palate cleanser.  Very interested to see where they take everything next year.

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I loved Frank's withering remark to Agustin.  Something along the lines of "You're mediocre, when you do produce something it'll be mediocre"  He aimed right for the heart and he got it.

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I was trying to think of where to hold this discussion so I hope this thread/subject is where it'd be.  I'm going to talk about workplace hanky panky but I think this show touches on other topics really well so I didn't want to limit the thread.

I recently got into a discussion on Twitter about Kevin and Patrick's hookup.  My POV is that the show can't ignore the improprieties Kevin took when seducing Patrick while my friend felt i was thinking too hard about what the show meant to present. And I get that perspective because TV shows often take liberties with personal and professional boundaries while not asking us to think about them too much or by ignoring them completely. 

But during my rewatch, I realized just how prevalent stories about mixing the professional with the personal were on this show.  Every single one of the leads dealt with this in some fashion.  With Dom, he gets chastised by Hugo when he wants to hook up with another waiter because "it gets weird and then they quit."  Later, both he and Lynn end up drawing lines to try to keep their situation from getting messy with them ultimately deciding to put "business" on hold to pursue a personal relationship. (Unless something changes next season).  Agustin never really considers the consequences of bringing his art into his home and he ruins his relationship because of it. 

Then we have Patrick and his role as the work place "fantasy" boyfriend.  I certainly don't know where the show will take this story next season but I am less likely to think that the fact he met Kevin in the office is a 'coincidence' given the other two stories this season.

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Considering the introspective tone this show takes at times, I really doubt they are going to let Kevin's letching after an employee pass.

People are human, people do dumb things, boinking an employee is a pretty dumb thing to do. I am sure they will address this,even if by some miracle the situation doesn't blow up in both their faces.

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I guess it's been alluded to before, but explicitly finding out that Augustine is a rich kid explains a lot about his character.  It all kind of clicked into place for me when Frank was ripping him a new one.

On IMDB I keep insisting Augustine was based on Michael Yerxa from I Girl 5 Gays. (Although Yerxa is a lot more loveable, as big a prick as he can be.)

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Yeah, I think you bring up some of the problems with being on a "Team" in this love triangle.  I like to watch all three characters but I think Richie is the one I like because he's pretty purely awesome.  Patrick, I like because I think his struggle is interesting and he can be sweet but I think his classicism is unattractive.  And Kevin is so charming but I have taken issue with how he has behaved as a boss.

 

I think my hopes are that next season Richie is allowed to date other people while Patrick & Kevin go through the messy relationship they're about to go through.  Then I'll decide if I want a Richie/Patrick reunion.  Ultimately, I think I would because I love watching them together but not if nothing changes.

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I think my hopes are that next season Richie is allowed to date other people while Patrick & Kevin go through the messy relationship they're about to go through.  Then I'll decide if I want a Richie/Patrick reunion.  Ultimately, I think I would because I love watching them together but not if nothing changes.

I think that the show writers will definitely have Richie meeting and dating other men, along with having Patrick and Kevin keep their fling going. Richie, slowly became a favorite character for viewers and critics of the show. The creator of the series is smart enough to realize that as much as folks think that Patrick and Kevin "fit better" as the so-called "better couple", Richie reflected an image that we hardly ever see in a tv program about relationships: the individual who knows that he or she may not be perfect, but they also do not deserve to be treated like crap by the one they like.

Richie stood up for himself and his feelings and that's why I'm Team Richie. I want him to find a man, not a boy, not a guy, not someone who doesn't know himself and not someone who says that he wants to find someone for himself, but let's himself become involved with a man who's already involved in a longterm relationship with his boyfriend.

As for Kevin: I've just been suspicious of him and his behavior since Patrick met him. As much as he told Patrick that he's all he can think about, Kevin's the one in control of how things may or may not go down regarding his continued pursuit of Patrick, while still being with his boyfriend. Kevin is still Patrick's boss.

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I'm TeamRichie in that I really love Richie and want him to stay on the show for as long as it runs. I don't care if he and Patrick stay together. Patrick has a lot of growing up to do before I can root for him to be with someone I like as much as I like Richie. I just want Richie to stick around.

 

I don't really trust Kevin. Russell Tovey is a great actor but Kevin is shady to me with his cheating and manipulations.

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My pick: I'm Team Nobody because IMO Patrick's not ready for a serious relationship with anyone. Patrick talked a good game about getting serious with Richie, but when he had the chance, he not only ruined it on several levels, at one point Patrick even tried to blame his problems on his mama, but she wasn't having it. Patrick's issues are nobody's fault but his own. Richie has made mistakes, but at least he admitted them and is trying to work on them; Patrick, otoh, claims that he wants to do the same, but only ends up making things worse. Patrick said that he wanted to make things work with Richie but he was not only reluctant to introduce him to his friends and his boss, family wasn't an option, either. Patrick's weak defense of Richie when Agustin accused Patrick of "slumming" with him at Dom's birthday party was bad enough, but Patrick's lying about Richie's career to his boss Kevin and John, Kevin's boyfriend and his putdowns of Richie to his mother were equally pathetic. Patrick may like Richie, but his feelings for Kevin keep getting in the way. Kevin is cute, but I've never trusted him and his treatment of Patrick is why. Kevin seems great, but he's a liar, a user, a cheater and an all-around creep who will do whatever to whomever to get what he wants no matter whom he hurts, whether it's his employees, John or Patrick. Instead of respecting professional, personal and legal boundaries, Kevin has not only blurred the lines, he has crossed them, first by flirting with Patrick, then by kissing Patrick at Patrick's sister's wedding and worst of all, luring Patrick back to the office under false pretenses, coming on to him, kissing him and then seducing him. After that scene, I noticed that Kevin and Patrick didn't hold each other, barely touched each other and didn't even look at each other. To add insult to injury, Kevin ruffled Patrick's hair like an adult does to a child, which was patronizing.

 

  As for Kevin's relationship with John, the actual boyfriend, I don't know if it's open or not, but even if it was-which I doubt-I don't think that affairs with employees is part of the deal because it's not only tacky and cruel, it's a lawsuit begging to happen. Kevin's treatment of Patrick and John proves that he's not as great as he thinks he is; otoh, Richie's awesome. Richie's not an easy guy to love, but as he proved in that beautiful scene in the finale, in which he confessed that he was very close to falling for Patrick but backed off for Patrick's sake as well as his own, at least he knows what love is. While Kevin's honesty with Patrick was selfish, Richie's honesty was the opposite, which to me is what a grownup does-put the other person's needs above their own, not below them. Patrick should only be with Richie when he deserves him and given Patrick's passive-aggressive bullshit, I don't see that happening anytime soon, if ever.

Edited by DollEyes
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Admittedly, as a gay man, I tend to find accents could have had my pants off faster than they finished a sentence demanding said pants 5 or so years ago.

 

These days, though, when I just watched all 8 episodes, I find myself unexplainably lusting after Richie and barely noticing Kevin comparatively. My goodness is Raul Castillo some kind of delicious. *Swoon*

 

On a completely logical note, obviously the relationship with Richie was more organic, healthy for Patrick. But, for me, he completely ruined it by getting over his bottom shame and then giving his first true bottoming away to Kevin. I wasn't the one betrayed, but it made me very uncomfortable. Personally, I've never experienced the bottom shame they so spoke of...but if I ever had, and I made a big deal about finally getting over it to someone I was in a relationship with, I would consider doing what Patrick did on the finale a horrible, horrible betrayal.

 

But seriously, why isn't the world full of Richies?

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I greatly disliked Augustin since basically episode 2. I am glad his ass got booted out the door. He absolutely deserved it.

 

Dom with the old guy works for me, but I felt that relationship was moving really fast.

 

In the back of my mind, I felt we were being set up for the Patrick/Kevin thing when Augustin was saying he secretly wanted it. This only made me hate Augustin further.

 

The truth of the matter is, Richie is wonderful, but the combination of insecurities between those two along similar lines creates the type of friction that can kill new relationships quickly. Patrick and Kevin are likely a better match based on who they are.

 

Still, this may be just my personal experience, but as far as relationships go, I need someone that pushes me out of my comfort zone and forces me to expand my horizons. That is what Richie represents to me. Patrick has spent his whole life envisioning only one route to happiness and Richie gives him a completely different perspective. In some ways, Patrick is that to Richie as well. I think it is easier for Richie to adjust because Patrick's view is likely something he has encountered before, but for Patrick, it is new territory.

 

Gosh, I keep going back and forth as to whether it would be something I could live with. I have dreams and ambitions for what I want my life to be and how I can get to that place, and I'm sure a Richie could be frustrating since he is happy doing what he is currently doing, but it is not necessarily an avenue to a future he might want. I always got the impression that he would want a family since he had many siblings and there is no way he could manage that where he is.

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Dom with the old guy works for me, but I felt that relationship was moving really fast.

 

The truth of the matter is, Richie is wonderful, but the combination of insecurities between those two along similar lines creates the type of friction that can kill new relationships quickly. Patrick and Kevin are likely a better match based on who they are.

 

I'm curious, how are Dom and Lynn moving really fast?  I know they're probably the duo the best situated to develop into something stable in Season 2 but they had their first reciprocal kiss in the finale so I'm surprised to see them called "fast." 

 

I think Kevin and Patrick are a good match on paper but I don't think we can divorce the fact that he used his position as his boss to create an opportunity to get Patrick alone so he could cheat (apparently) on his boyfriend from the definition of who he is.  Based on the way they started, I'd imagine that this would lead to its own brand of insecurities--going back to the old adage of "If they cheat with you, they'll cheat on you."

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I'm curious, how are Dom and Lynn moving really fast?  I know they're probably the duo the best situated to develop into something stable in Season 2 but they had their first reciprocal kiss in the finale so I'm surprised to see them called "fast." 

 

I think Kevin and Patrick are a good match on paper but I don't think we can divorce the fact that he used his position as his boss to create an opportunity to get Patrick alone so he could cheat (apparently) on his boyfriend from the definition of who he is.  Based on the way they started, I'd imagine that this would lead to its own brand of insecurities--going back to the old adage of "If they cheat with you, they'll cheat on you."

 

I meant Dom's transition from having no interest to realizing he really likes him. I don't think the things they've done together have moved fast at all.

 

I think the relationship with Richie moved at a proper pace in some ways as well. It is hard to tell how much time actually passes between/within episodes. This, of course, could be the center of my issues with the above relationship.

 

I do agree that Kevin and Patrick have no future simply because of how they started. I think Richie is supposed to be the end game, but it will be not be a straight line to get to that point.

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Yes. We need more Richies.

Agreed.

Scoop on season two.

http://tvline.com/2014/07/10/once-upon-a-time-season-4-captain-hook-new-clothes/

Can’t wait for the new season of Looking! Got any scoop yet? –Renata

Season 2 of the HBO drama will add three recurring characters: Malik, an African-American staffer in the mayor’s office; Sammie, a female-to-male transgender who lives at the shelter where Agustín gets a job; and Brady, Richie’s new redheaded, slightly punk beau.

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I don't mean to double post but it has been a while since my last post and there is actual news.  Looking was at "Outfest" and some info about the new season was leaked. 

 

8 Things We Learned about the Second Season of Looking

 

It talks in general about what will come up this next season and gives a little more detail about some of the storylines, including more info about the roles they are reportedly casting for.  I am excited to read that the threesome will spend more time together in the second season. 

Edited by Irlandesa

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Dom and "the old guy"?? That is Mr. Scott Bakula. Respect!  (LOL.)

 

Seriously though, I like that Lynn challenges Dom and his behavior. I'm really curious to see where things will go for them (and everyone else) next season.

 

Have they said when season 2 will start to air?

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Looking was filming in my neighborhood last week.  They needed to get sign off from the neighbors because they were filming at night.  They went door-to-door for anyone who hadn't turned in the form.   I was home sick, looking like I could be an extra on The Walking Dead.  The man they sent to my door was a little too pretty to be a PA.   I stopped myself from asking if the show was going to get any more interesting this season.  If he is on it, I can say there is definitely eye candy. 

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I can't believe it got a second season and they kept the same cast and didn't try to do a complete overhaul.  It's just so boring, I don't get it.

Edited by Morbs

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If you find it boring (which I decidedly do not) an overhaul  in the cast wouldn't necessarily change the situation.  The style of the show is often due to the creators.  I think this is the kind of show Michael Lannan and Andrew Haigh wanted to do. A new cast wouldn't make the show move faster.  And that's the kind of thing you can change with the same cast. Showrunners so rarely change on HBO shows and it's usually not because of HBO demanding the change but rather a showrunner choosing to step down. 

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Not enough Kevin. I've been suspecting, going by the way the makers look, and their explanations of the first season, that Patrick / Richie are the end game - looks like Season 2 is when it happens. 

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I will say that I think the show definitely is Team Richie. He's the open, sweet guy who lays himself out there, and his worst sin is that he's defensive, prickly (or is that another word for defensive) and hot headed. But nothing insurmountable. 

 

But my heart yearns for Patrick and Kevin to get together and be the end game. I just think Kevin gets Patrick a lot more, and Richie seems like so much work. Patrick and Kevin have been friends first, and that's a dynamic I always enjoy. I swear, it's not just the British accent and the being played by Russell freaking Tovey thing - I've found Patrick to open up to Kevin a lot more than he seemed to open up to Richie, so that puts me on their side. 

 

Plus, I'm not someone who wants a world full of Richies. That's a way to make this earth into Miranda, IMO. I can't stand lack of ambition and striving in a man. Or a woman, for that matter. Just don't get folks like that. Maybe it's just my third worldness not getting a first world perspective. 

 

Contrasting that - I like Kevin because he seems smarter. I'm a sucker for intelligence in a man (and woman). He's been the one solving their gaming problems and seems to be successful at a fairly young age. That's sexy. 

 

Now the show of course, is going to make me sad by making him creepy next season, I'm sure. But after Season 1, I'm still firmly Team Kevin. He's not perfect though - he'll definitely have to cut down on the cheating thing to be a viable candidate next season. 

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I'm just glad to see Lynn is back.  I was afraid Scott Bakula's commitment to NCIS: Bad Accents was going to prevent him from returning.

 

Is it wrong of me to wish they'd ditched Agustin and kept Frank instead?

 

ETA:  Yay, Doris!

Edited by starri
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I respectfully disagree. For one thing, if Kevin really "got" Patrick, then he wouldn't treat him like a sidepiece.  Kevin may be rich and successful, but if he was smart, then he wouldn't put his company, his employees and his relationship with John at risk just to get laid. I believe that Patrick's openness with Kevin will backfire big-time, sooner or later.  Just because Richie's not a billionaire, that doesn't mean he lacks ambition. Richie may not be easy, but sometimes the best things aren't meant to be. Richie may not be richer or smarter than Kevin, but IMO he is much better.

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  What are your favorite Looking quotes? One of mine is the beautiful scene from the S1 finale where Richie confessed to Patrick that he was close to falling in love with him, but he couldn't do it because he didn't think Patrick was ready. That moment was a perfect blend of great writing and great acting by Raul Castillo, who plays Richie. Another was when Agustin's boyfriend Frank put him on blast for his shitty choices in the same episode.

 

Post your picks for the best Looking dialogue here.

Edited by DollEyes

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I respectfully disagree. For one thing, if Kevin really "got" Patrick, then he wouldn't treat him like a sidepiece.  Kevin may be rich and successful, but if he was smart, then he wouldn't put his company, his employees and his relationship with John at risk just to get laid. 

 

We have only Season 1 so far, and there I did not see Kevin treat Patrick like a sidepiece - unless you mean Frank's office wife comment, which IMO, I still wouldn't say was treating him like a sidepiece. And again, without going into Season 2 and seeing how they steer the story, we don't know that Kevin wasn't carried away by Patrick. He stayed aloof for quite a while, actually, so again, I haven't seen anything in Season 1 to make me believe that Kevin takes Patrick lightly. Don't like the cheating on John though.

I believe that Patrick's openness with Kevin will backfire big-time, sooner or later.
Maybe, maybe not. We'll see in Season 2. However, I think it is key that Patrick is that open with Kevin. They seemed to be good friends - Kevin knew about Patrick's sister's wedding and Dom's pop up, among other things.  
Just because Richie's not a billionaire, that doesn't mean he lacks ambition. Richie may not be easy, but sometimes the best things aren't meant to be. Richie may not be richer or smarter than Kevin, but IMO he is much better.
He'll take (and has taken) Patrick out of his comfort zone for sure - Richie that is. But I'm not sure that's always a good thing in a relationship, for it to be a constant struggle for common ground. Probably gets exhausting. And when I said Richie lacked ambition, I wasn't going off the fact that Kevin was richer or smarter. I was going off Richie stating that he didn't want to open his own shop to Kevin and John and Patrick also saying later that Richie was happy where he was. That I don't get, and can't root for. 

 

With Kevin, I think similarities in socio economic class and the resultant shared experiences, and common interests can help them through some rough patches. Patrick's explanation for liking Richie is because he was so sweet, is true he is. Will that be enough for a relationship? Richie is also defensive, insecure of Patricks regard (even if rightly so), and keeps bailing when he feels "disrespected". I've seen Patrick feeling constantly bad about himself in the relationship and having to walk, if not on eggshells, on cartons with eggs inside for sure. So I'm not convinced that Richie is better for Patrick. 

 

I didn't mention the other point that Patrick made about why he liked Richie - that Richie is very hot. That's because I think when it comes to 'hotness', I'd put them both at par, IMO, as far as Patrick is concerned. (For me, Kevin wins hands down which is a testament to Russell and Jon's talent, because I don't find Russell Tovey hot, just sweet and cute). 

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We only have Season 1 so far, and there I did not see Kevin treating Patrick like a sidepiece-unless you mean Frank's office wife comment-which IMO, I still wouldn't say was treating him like a sidepiece.

 

  What I meant by Kevin's treating Patrick like a sidepiece was that during the seduction scene in the S1 finale, all Kevin said to Patrick was that he couldn't stop thinking about him and wanted to kiss him every time he saw him, not that he cared about him nor that he thought was falling in love with him, like Richie did, plus there was Kevin's ruffling Patrick's hair after they did the deed. He didn't cuddle with, caress or kiss Patrick afterwards-he just petted him like he was a dog, which IMO, was insulting.

 

 

Maybe, maybe not. We'll see in Season 2. However, I think it is key that Patrick is open with Kevin. They seemed to be good friends. Kevin knew about Patrick's sister's wedding and Dom's pop up, among other things.

 

  I respectfully disagree. People can be friends, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they should be lovers. Dom and Agustin know more about Patrick than Kevin does, but IMO they're no more right for Patrick than Kevin is.

 

  As for Richie, he's not "perfect" by any means. He can be defensive and judgmental at times, but at least he admits his mistakes and is trying to change for the better.  Richie's refusal to tolerate being disrespected is a plus in my book, as is his living his life on his own terms, personally and professionally. Just because Richie may not want his own business now, that doesn't mean he never will. Patrick had problems long before he met Richie and Richie's not making them any worse. Patrick is his own worst enemy. Kevin and Patrick may have similar backgrounds, but chances are so did Kevin and John and if Kevin's involvement with Patrick is any indication, that's not working out too well for them. Patrick's relationship with Richie may have some problems, but chances are they wouldn't lead to a full-fledged scandal like his affair with Kevin would. Like the saying goes, "If they'll do it with you, they'll do it to you." Anyone who is so selfish that they would not only cheat on their significant others, they would put other peoples' futures on the line just to get laid is someone I can't root for. That Patrick is apparently so insecure that he would become someone else's "dirty little secret" only proves to me that, like I said before, he's not ready to be in a relationship with anyone.

Edited by DollEyes

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I love a good discussion !!

What I meant by Kevin's treating Patrick like a sidepiece was that during the seduction scene in the S1 finale, all Kevin said to Patrick was that he couldn't stop thinking about him and wanted to kiss him every time he saw him, not that he cared about him nor that he thought was falling in love with him, like Richie did, plus there was Kevin's ruffling Patrick's hair after they did the deed. He didn't cuddle with, caress or kiss Patrick afterwards-he just petted him like he was a dog, which IMO, was insulting.

 

We actually didn't see if they cuddled or not. (Did we? Cue rewatch of the scene). We saw them afterwards when they were getting dressed. For all we know they cuddled. What we did see was Patrick being comfortable enough with Kevin to bottom for Kevin first time out. Besides, Richie and Kevin are at different points in their romantic relationships with Patrick. Richie didn't say he was falling in love with Patrick the first time out either. What I like is that Kevin was honest with Patrick. He was honest about not knowing where they were headed. The decision ultimately was Patrick's. What you saw is dismissiveness, I saw as emotional honestly. I'd have found it more suspect if Kevin confessed to an undying (or even imminent) love for Patrick - that would have read to me as lying to get Paddy into bed which, Kevin did not do. 

 

People can be friends, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they should be lovers.

Oh agreed. However, it doesn't hurt either. I honestly believe that regardless of whether you start of as friends, you do need to have that liking for each other for a sustainable relationship. I cannot  imagine not being friends with my SO. 

Richie's refusal to tolerate being disrespected is a plus in my book, as is his living his life on his own terms, personally and professionally. Just because Richie may not want his own business now, that doesn't mean he never will.

Agreed that not tolerating being disrespected is a good thing, but I don't know how good it remains when it manifests into random eavesdropping and storming off during important moments. Also, while Richie may change his mind later, at this moment he is adamant that he doesn't have ambition. I see no reason to base my opinion on him and the Patrick / Richie relationship on the fact that he may change that stance some time in the nebulous future.  

 

Kevin and Patrick may have similar backgrounds, but chances are so did Kevin and John and if Kevin's involvement with Patrick is any indication, that's not working out too well for them.

I don't claim that it's guaranteed that similar backgrounds are proof against problems in relationships. Just saying that that is something going for Kevin / Patrick  which Richie / Patrick does not have. Just like Richie being single is a HUGE plus in the Richie / Patrick column that Kevin / Patrick does not have.

Patrick's relationship with Richie may have some problems, but chances are they wouldn't lead to a full-fledged scandal like his affair with Kevin would.

Eh, I don't think it will be that big a deal (now watch them prove me wrong). Inter office relationships happen. I know of many. It is a problem that Kevin is Patrick's immediate supervisor currently, but I got the feeling that was project based, in which case it shouldn't be that difficult to re-arrange if they want.

 

Like the saying goes, "If they'll do it with you, they'll do it to you." Anyone who is so selfish that they would not only cheat on their significant others, they would put other peoples' futures on the line just to get laid is someone I can't root for.

 I don't like the cheating at all. i'm with you there. However, I don't think we've really gotten enough of a look into Kevin's head to be able to say that he was doing it to just to get laid. That's one of the things that I did not like about the last season - the lack of Kevin's point of view. I know why the writers did it - a look into Kevin's head would have ruined the shock of the last episode - instead we got to experience Patrick's shock when Kevin kissed him, and then when Kevin confessed his interest. A look into Kevin would have removed us from that experience and from understanding Patrick's point of view. That's why we weren't shown or told what Kevin was feeling, beyond (1) their extreme comfort with each other and liking for each other's company (2) his honesty with Patrick about his likes and dislikes (3) his reluctant attraction to Patrick. Just as it is possible to argue that Kevin was handing Patrick a line, I'd argue that the very fact that Kevin did take the huge risk (as the guy in power, he's the one more at risk, right?) points to the fact that Kevin's feelings towards Patrick are quite deep. Surely he wouldn't take that risk to his own career just to get laid, right?

 

That Patrick is apparently so insecure that he would become someone else's "dirty little secret" only proves to me that, like I said before, he's not ready to be in a relationship with anyone.

Going into promo territory with this, and I'm a little leery of quotes taken out of context. Having said that, again, I don't know that Patrick's insecurity is what is urging him towards discretion. Why would he be insecure - I mean he's got a great guy who may have been falling in love with him. If it is about his family issues, is the conjecture that Patrick is so desperate for a relationship that his family will approve of that he'll be with Kevin, even though he won't be able to tell them about Kevin? I think we all require work on ourselves and things that make us less than perfect for others - but surely a supportive relationship can help us there?

Edited by romantic idiot

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  Re Kevin and Patrick's post-coital moments, I've seen the episode several times and they didn't cuddle at all. Kevin's not knowing where things stood between him and Patrick was the most honest moment between them from my perspective. I didn't expect Kevin to profess his undying love for Patrick, but I didn't expect him so blasé towards him either.  I agree that being friends with a potential lover is important, but I also believe that that there some platonic relationships that should just stay platonic.

 

  I know that inter-office relationships exist, but usually between equals. Kevin is Patrick's boss. Kevin may have "deep feelings" for Patrick, but it's not just feelings on the line. There's careers, reputations, money and the company at stake, not to mention Kevin's relationship with John. People can't help how they feel, but they can help how they act. To quote the old saying, "Just because you can, that doesn't mean you should."

 

 

I'm really confused-I didn't see any post coital moments at all between Patrick and Kevin, so I'm not sure where you are getting the lack of cuddling from. Do you mean the scene where they are getting dressed? It is plausible that there was cuddling before that.

 

  Re the first point, I got the "lack of cuddling" from the scene itself, where there was no cuddling. If Patrick and Kevin had cuddled, then they should have shown it.

 

 

Now, from the interviews I've seen, the writers are in love with Raul and Richie, so we are in all likelihood going to see the seedier version of this playing out, the one that supports Patrick/Richie. But I 'ship Kevin/Patrick for all the reasons stated in the above posts.

 

And because I don't find Richie perfect in any way, shape or form.

 

    I respectfully disagree. I don't think that Patrick/Richie could get much, if any, seedier than Kevin/Patrick on the floor at the office. Richie's not "perfect" (no one is) but IMO he's closer to it than Kevin- or Patrick, for that matter- has ever been or ever will be.

Edited by DollEyes

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I'm really confused - I didn't see any post coital moments at all between Patrick and Kevin, so I'm not sure where you are getting the lack of cuddling from. Do you mean the scene where they were getting dressed? It is plausible that there was cuddling before that. And i did see some tenderness there from Patrick towards Kevin in that, which made me believe there were some soft touches before that. And I didn't really see Kevin being cavalier towards Patrick. I saw him being honest about his confusion. Patrick himself was torn in that moment, he had the smile on his face, then he saw the locket/necklace thingie. 

 

People can't help how they feel, but they can help how they act. To quote the old saying, "Just because you can, that doesn't mean you should."

 

Agreed. In fact I think Kevin was trying to live by that dictate. He wasn't obvious to Patrick, till the drunken kiss he didn't give Patrick any encouragement or lead him on in any way. They were good friends and coworkers. It changed with the kiss. I think it's possible to interpret things as Kevin panicking in the moment. He had feelings for Patrick but it was a bad idea, because of the boss thing and the John thing. so Kevin was just happy to have Patrick around, even if it was a temptation. (And Patrick himself was with someone, with Richie). But then the kiss happened, and Patrick immediately pulled away. He wouldn't let Kevin apologise. He insisted it wasn't a big deal, but he was avoiding Kevin, and Kevin could feel him pulling away. So he panicked and asked Patrick to meet him. And things happened because he was scared of losing what little of Patrick he did have. So Kevin was trying to help how acted, he just broke because he was losing what little of Patrick he did have. 

 

Now, from the interviews I've seen the writers are in love with Raul and Richie, so we are in all likelihood going to see the seedier version of this playing out, the one which supports Patrick / Richie. But I 'ship Kevin / Patrick because they work better for me for the reasons stated in the above posts. 

 

And because I don't find Richie perfect in any way, shape or form. 

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I've found Patrick to open up to Kevin a lot more than he seemed to open up to Richie, so that puts me on their side.

How so?  Patrick and Kevin have talked quite a bit but more than Patrick/Richie when Richie knows about Patrick's first time, Patrick's insecurities regarding his family and Patrick's childhood insecurities?  I think Patrick is a pretty open person in general.

 

They seemed to be good friends - Kevin knew about Patrick's sister's wedding and Dom's pop up, among other things.

Owen seems like Patrick's good friend from work.  Owen hangs out with Patrick both in and outside of work.  Owen gets invited to Patrick's non-work buddy's birthday party. 

 

Kevin seems like someone Patrick talks a lot to but...at work.  I've had work relationships like that yet I wouldn't call them friendships as it never extended beyond the office walls/work time.  The two times they met outside of work were accidental. The first time he had difficulty mixing his 'other' life with his work life and the second time Kevin mixed in to Patrick's life but not as a part of Patrick's life but rather as a part of John's life. 

 

I'd argue that Owen has made the crossover as a work friend who became a good friend but I don't think Kevin's there yet, especially when he needs to use a work emergency excuse to create alone time with Patrick.

 

Surely he wouldn't take that risk to his own career just to get laid, right?

You wouldn't think so but it happens all the time.  Powerful, charismatic men sleep with subordinates all the time just because they want to.  It happens with politicians, businessmen...etc. 

 

Now, from the interviews I've seen the writers are in love with Raul and Richie, so we are in all likelihood going to see the seedier version of this playing out, the one which supports Patrick / Richie.\

I don't know what the writers being in love with Raul/Richie has to do with anything.  Russell Tovey is the one they loved so much they created a character specifically for him so I see no reason to believe that the direction they're following with Kevin is in any way related to the writers' feeling more positive towards one actor/character over another. The fact is, they loved Russell so they created Kevin.  Kevin is attractive, charming and ambitious.  He also used his power as Patrick's boss to get him alone after Patrick rebuffed his non-work-specific attempts.  He then fucked him on the office floor knowing he was still partnered and had no plans to leave said partner.  Maybe the writers could write something to get me to understand why he cheated on his boyfriend.  They won't be able to write his POV and manpain in a way that makes what he did as Patrick's boss okay in my eyes. 

 

My point is, they loved Russell so they created a character they loved.  It just so happens that what they love in the character may not be what some of the audience loves or even wants from the character. They wrote and filmed the season before we saw it.  The douchebaggery was baked in.  It's not like exploring the seedier side of an affair is a sudden shift in course with the character.   

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How so?  Patrick and Kevin have talked quite a bit but more than Patrick/Richie when Richie knows about Patrick's first time, Patrick's insecurities regarding his family and Patrick's childhood insecurities?  I think Patrick is a pretty open person in general.

 

Owen seems like Patrick's good friend from work.  Owen hangs out with Patrick both in and outside of work.  Owen gets invited to Patrick's non-work buddy's birthday party. 

 

Kevin seems like someone Patrick talks a lot to but...at work.  I've had work relationships like that yet I wouldn't call them friendships as it never extended beyond the office walls/work time.  The two times they met outside of work were accidental. The first time he had difficulty mixing his 'other' life with his work life and the second time Kevin mixed in to Patrick's life but not as a part of Patrick's life but rather as a part of John's life. 

 

I'd argue that Owen has made the crossover as a work friend who became a good friend but I don't think Kevin's there yet, especially when he needs to use a work emergency excuse to create alone time with Patrick.

 

I'd expect Patrick's boyfriend Richie to know about Patrick's sexual history, and you are right, Owen is probably, after quite a few years (it seems) closer to Patrick than Kevin is. On the other hand, Kevin is Patrick's boss, yet Kevin knows about Patrick's personal life to an extent that i'd expect one's friend to know, not one's boss (and Kevin also understands Patrick's worries about his family, hence the discussion while fixing the bow tie). I found it telling that when Kevin asked Patrick where Richie was, at the wedding, instead of repeating the food poisoning line, Patrick chose to be honest about his fuck up to his Kevin, That showed me that they didn't think of each other as just work colleagues, though of course, Patrick does have other people on this live (Dom, Agustin and Owen) whom he is closer to, than he is to Kevin. But for two people who have known each other for as short a time as Patrick and Kevin have, and for those who have interacted in a work environment only, I find that Patrick demonstrates a comfort level with Kevin, that seems quite high to me (and vice versa, of course). 

 

I don't know what the writers being in love with Raul/Richie has to do with anything.  Russell Tovey is the one they loved so much they created a character specifically for him so I see no reason to believe that the direction they're following with Kevin is in any way related to the writers' feeling more positive towards one actor/character over another. The fact is, they loved Russell so they created Kevin.  

From your mouth to God's ears. I hope to God you are right, that they like Russell too, and accordingly they do justice to the Patrick/Kevin relationship, without them making it all about the cheating and the douchebaggary, because I found it to have a lot of layers and other interesting points. However, knowing "artsy" folk in general, I've no doubt I'm going to be disappointed and it's going to be all rah rah 'Richie's sooo sweet, he looooves Patrick, he's so zen and perfect and different and good for Patrick, forcing him to grow and evolve and settle, it's soon angsty and star-crossed'

Edited by romantic idiot

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We are just now discovering and catching up on Looking -- and are 'looking' for a way to describe this show... It's a half hour show, but not really a comedy and not really a high stakes drama (for which I'm thankful).

The characters do seem to be reaching milestones - turning 40 , moving out from a long-term roommate, moving in with a boyfriend, etc. ..But most of the transitions seem to happen without much dramatic reaction. 

 

Actually, we appreciate the episodes more because of the "inside the episode" features that follow -- and I'm not sure how much I will enjoy the new season when that feature is not available. (These extras also explains the overall "beard" theme of the series when you see the creators ..) 

 

So, to me, Looking seems to be like Sex and the City without Narration (and I've only seen a handful of episodes of that). But without the narration (or the producers' added insight) the episodes themselves come off as pretty light depictions of 'typical' gay lifestyles, so I can understand the lack of buzz for the show .

 

But for our household, we are enjoying these characters' low-key life journey ... and all the scenes filmed in SF are nice, too. 

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Actually, we appreciate the episodes more because of the "inside the episode" features that follow -- and I'm not sure how much I will enjoy the new season when that feature is not available.

Is there some reason you think it won't be available?  The "inside the episode" feature was there last season.  It didn't air on HBO but it was available online as well as attached to the end of the On Demand episodes as soon as they were uploaded. 

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In the Season 2 premiere, Patrick, Agustín and Dom stay at Lynn's cabin on the Russian River, where Patrick is looking for some downtime to think about his future back in San Francisco, but the trio are lured into a wild party in the woods. Meanwhile, Dom searches for clues about Lynn's old life.

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OMG Bohemian Highway! Occidental! Guerneville! They are hanging on one of the bestest locations on earth!

 

6 minutes in: I predict someone will get fucked against that tree.

 

Aww, Eddie! Nonprofit sector white knight Eddie! Agustin seriously does not deserve him. But how cute was it watching him tread water while Eddie stood chest high in water? :D

 

I don't want to talk about Kevin. I know we need to talk about Kevin, but I don't want to talk about Kevin. OK just this-- following an employee up to their Guerneville Getaway? STALKING.

Edited by bunnywithanaxe

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