Looking - General Discussion

[SimoneS]

Patrick is a pathetic dysfunctional mess (and not in an fictionally entertaining way). I get why he invited Richie to the party, he was maybe hopeful that they would reconnect and curious about Brady. But why send Kevin an e-vite and then invite him again in person? Was he hoping that Kevin would show up fall in love with him and dump John? Patrick is delusional. The only way Patrick is going to get Kevin is by telling John about the affair. So Patrick needs to decide if he is going to play that card.

 

Generally, I don't have a problem with fictional characters having affairs. However, they have got to have chemistry, imo, really be in love, and have potential for good stories when they do get together. Patrick and Kevin meet none of the criteria in my book. The only potential story for them as a couple is Kevin cheating on Patrick which no doubt he will do.

 

I love Richie so I was glad when he danced over to be with Brady after smiling at Patrick. I don't want him sucked into Patrick's bullshit. I was thrilled that he got out of that deathtrap relationship with Patrick. It was only a matter of time before Patrick cheated on Richie with Kevin. Besides Patrick was clearly struggling dating a man from a different ethnic and lower socio-economic background. It really was no surprise that his attraction to the more socially similar Kevin would win out over the challenges of dating Richie. Brady seems more grounded, but of course, Richie only exists in relation to Patrick so I doubt that we get more of Richie and Brady's relationship independently. 

 

I like Eddie a lot. He is one of the few energetic characters, but I don't like how they seem to be stalling having him sleep with Agustin. 

 

I totally get why this show's ratings are so low. It remarkably chaste for a HBO show. If the overall stories are going to meandering and overly "deep," then the show should have ramped up the nudity to attract viewers from day one There have been no penis shots and only one butt shot that I can recall.

 

I see some people fawning over Russell Tovey all over the Internet. I don't get it. I have never found him good looking and his acting is as poor as it was on Being Human. Eh. Different strokes, I guess.

Edited February 25, 2015 by SimoneS

[MizStaken]

There was a shower scene in an episode.a couple of weeks ago and there was penis and ass. And I think there has been some Groff and Tovey and Bartlett ass thus far as well. But true, it has been severely lacking in the last couple of episodes.

Patrick is a lousy drunk and should stay far away from the booze. I hope there will be consequences for his actions but knowing this show ....

[Garnett7]

Liking the same music does not a relationship make. Or break. And maybe Kevin would say Patrick is more fun than Brady (what does he even know about Brady anyhow?). But would he say that Patrick is more fun than Jon?

 

I agree with others who say that Kevin is never going to leave Jon on his own. He doesn't have the spine. Patrick has all but broadcasted their affair on national TV and Kevin is still being gutless to come clean or tell Patrick to cut it out. Jon is clueing in now. I wouldn't be surprise if Jon dumped Kevin after learning this and then Kevin will come crawling back to Patrick. But Kevin is not taking the lead and doing it himself anytime soon. 

 

I like Russell Tovey well enough but I agree with the above poster that his acting isn't really earth-shattering (he was the weakest link in the cast of Being Human to me, "Mitchell & Annie" were so much better). And his looks are ok, nothing I'd write home about though.

[SourK]

Almost everything Patrick said and did all episode was uncomfortable and hard to watch, but I think it was supposed to be, so I'm okay with it, even if I had to look away while he was talking.

 

I really liked Augustin's wig, but thanks to the Recap for pointing out that these costumes are unrealistically good. There was part of me that wondered if I just always eff-up Halloween because I never look like that, and somehow everyone at this party had something amazing.

 

I saw someone make a point about this in the AV Club comments section that made sense to me.  Legolas is British. Link, the person Patrick thought he was, comes from Japanese anime.  Eddie's friend is Asian.  So while Patrick is a geek who would have probably made that connection if Eddie's friend had been white, he's also racist enough to truly not have it occur to him.

 

I think this explanation works, but I also read it as a thing where Patrick's bond with Kevin is partly over how they both like video games, and Patrick's feeling alienated all night because nobody else in his life understands his video game costume -- so, when he guesses the new love interest is dressed as a video game character and ends up being wrong, it's a signal that this new guy doesn't measure up to Kevin, and isn't the person he's looking for, and that makes having both his exes in the room with him even more upsetting for Patrick.

 

(In retrospect, I think it all would have worked even better if Patrick was the only one with a really good costume, that nobody understood, and everyone else was wearing a bunch of random crap that everybody liked).

[sinkwriter]

 

I like Russell Tovey well enough but I agree with the above poster that his acting isn't really earth-shattering (he was the weakest link in the cast of Being Human to me, "Mitchell & Annie" were so much better). And his looks are ok, nothing I'd write home about though.

 

That's so interesting to me (the different perspectives) because I loved Russell on Being Human. His was the first character I loved. At first glance I felt Mitchell was volatile and violent and Annie was kind of bizarre and clueless in a "Are you for real?" kind of way, but I really felt for what George seemed to be going through. His physical transformations seemed brutally painful, and his emotional trials were heart-breaking. (George was a bit hysterical at times, though, LOL.)

 

But I grew to love all three characters on the show, and what made the show for me was the bond between all three of them. It just wasn't the same show once they started to change that dynamic and introduce other characters or eliminate Mitchell and George. And Russell was wonderful to me. I've looked for his work on other programs ever since. (And I think he's a unique mix -- adorable face, sexy body. *GRIN*)

Edited February 25, 2015 by sinkwriter

[Irlandesa]

It really was no surprise that his attraction to the more socially similar Kevin would win out over the challenges of dating Richie.

 

The funny thing, to me, is that I think there are much bigger challenges when it comes to dating Kevin than dating Richie.  Sure, they're socially similar but as we all know, Kevin has a long term boyfriend.  But that boyfriend also happens to be one of Patrick's brother-in-law's best friends.  Kevin was at the wedding last year because of Jon.

 

If he thought he'd have a tough time introducing Richie to his family but I think that would be nothing compared to bringing Kevin home as a boyfriend, especially if Jon finds out who Kevin's affair is with and shares that info with his friend.  Talk about disapproval.

 

I just hope the show doesn't forget that fact.

I think this explanation works, but I also read it as a thing where Patrick's bond with Kevin is partly over how they both like video games, and Patrick's feeling alienated all night because nobody else in his life understands his video game costume -- so, when he guesses the new love interest is dressed as a video game character and ends up being wrong, it's a signal that this new guy doesn't measure up to Kevin, and isn't the person he's looking for, and that makes having both his exes in the room with him even more upsetting for Patrick.

Brady was the one person who got Patrick's costume and even that poor guy couldn't catch a break from Patrick.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I haven't seen Being Human so this is the first thing I have seen Russell Tovey in. I haven't found him attractive or unattractive. To me, he just looks like a regular guy, nothing out of the ordinary, and I haven't found him charming as this character so there's nothing to override the neutrality I have about his attractiveness level. If anything, Kevin's actions make me wonder why Patrick was interested in him in the first place.

 

As for the level of the Halloween costumes, I live in the Bay Area so I have seen how elaborate the costumes are for events around here. I have seen crazy professional looking costumes for minor events like singalong movies at the Castro Theatre and superhero bingo night. A lot of people are very creative and know how to make their own or buy the basics and augment them. The go go dancers I used to work with always looked really put together but I learned from examining their costumes up close that they were usually something basic (bikini plus hot pants, unitards, bra with skirt) that had stuff from the fabric store pinned or glue gunned onto the fabric. Dom's was just a chest piece and a wig. Agustin's was wings and a wig (and there are cheap wig shops on almost every block from Oakland to San Francisco - I kid you not). Brady's was just a onesie made of faux fur (and with all the burners up here, it's rare to find someone who doesn't have some kind of faux fur costume in their collection!). One of my friends has a second bedroom that she turned into her costume closet because she goes to events like the summer white party, Dickens Fair, etc. You could invite her to a last minute themed costume party and she would have a full head to toe outfit ready to go. There are also places where you can rent costumes year round for pretty cheap. One year my friend celebrated her birthday at a speakeasy and asked us all to dress up. I had some old flapper stuff that I threw together but one of our friends just went to a costume shop in the Haight and rented a flapper dress for the night. Never underestimate how much people love costumes in San Francisco!

[romantic idiot]

I'm curious as to how Richie is "self-righteous". Because he's a straight forward person? Because he doesn't cheat on his boyfriends? Because he doesn't think it's a great thing to be involved in an affair behind someone's back? Oh, yeah, terrible of him.

Paddy is uncomfortable bottoming, so he must have bottom shame. He is trying to understand the psychic, which is a completely new experience for him, so he must be looking down on Richie's culture. Paddy is tense and doesn't want to have pot before going to his sister's wedding, how dare he...Honestly, Richie is a nice guy, but that dude has a chip on his shoulder that only he is allowed to be sensitive about. Having said that, after the incident with the cousin, I am willing to concede that Richie might have been too defensive and insecure because he liked Patrick too much. 

 

He clearly knew more about the subject he was writing on than Patrick, hence why Paddy ended up making himself look foolish by trying to act like he has superior knowledge on something he hasn't even read.

As for Richie finding Brady more fun than Patrick . . everyone on this show is more fun than Patrick.  Patrick is a big neurotic ball of issues that whoever is involved with him has to wade through on a daily basis. I don't imagine Brady would completely freak out over a visit to a psychic. Or panic over being bitten by a bed bug (because you were in a sleazy motel cheating with someone). Who'd really want to put up with Patrick on a full time basis?

As the person who wrote the article, I'd hope Brady knows more about what he wrote than Patrick, a reader. Maybe that's reaching. But I'd take Patrick. I find him sweet, dutiful, earnest, a bit of a geek and nerdy, reasonably articulate, open to other people's points of view, fairly accepting of others' foibles and criticisms of himself, if neurotic. And not self righteous or defensive. And, it seems, good at his job. I like him. I'd rather spend time with Patrick (and Kevin, a little), rather than Richie (exhausting), Brady (also exhausting), Agustin (scary), Dom (too aimless), Doris (exhausting) etc. So, you know, to each his / her own. Anyway, my point is not that Brady is not that fun, but that shouldn't Patrick want to be with someone who enjoys being with Patrick, more than he enjoys being with Brady, say? Shouldn't that be a bare minimum criterion?

 

Patrick's drunken speech was so hard to watch, his friends should have dragged him off after the first couple of sentences because he was making himself into a drunken spectacle.

 

I feel sorry for Kevin and Patrick because they really can't seem to get their shit together and work through awkward issues without losing the plot entirely. It's both endearing and frustrating to watch.

This, You can see that they are good for and too each other. But Jon's good too. I've been having this thought and Looking's a good place to discuss it. But, all of the romances now have to focus on internal conflict (which is basically a neurosis of some kind e.g. commitment phobia, abandonment issues / or PTSD from rape or something). Because really, there are no good factors of external conflict left - race is gone, age is gone (though boy are folks ageist now), class, criminal behaviour , disease, nothing is really taboo nowadays so there is no source of good angst creating source of external conflict left. Except homosexuality (gayness/) - that's the only place where you can understand why 2 people who should be together, aren't. Yet, in a place like San Francisco, even that is quite acceptable, so really, if you have to write good angst, you almost have to have a triangle or someone in a committed relationship. Which is what they've done, really. So, I get from an intellectual perspective why Patrick / Kevin can't be together. But emotionally, I just want the 2 crazy kids to work it out. And I don't know Jon well enough to feel empathic towards him. 

 

 It was only a matter of time before Patrick cheated on Richie with Kevin. 

I disagree. What I saw was Patrick pushing Kevin away quite definitely when Kevin made a pass at him, because he was with Richie at the time. Patrick didn't respond to Kevin till after he thought he had broken up with Richie. So i don't think it was a matter of time, at all, actually. And I like Richie and Brady together too, and wouldn't mind seeing more of them together. I do suspect that part of Richie's attraction for Brady comes from how expressive Brady is about his interest in Richie. 

 

Patrick is a lousy drunk and should stay far away from the booze. I hope there will be consequences for his actions but knowing this show ....

i don't know why there should be consequences for Patrick. He made Dom and Agustin uncomfortable, but they know where he was coming from and friends forgive that sh**. He was complimentary towards Richie and said Brady was Richie's soulmate, and he didn't say anything bad or indiscreet about Kevin. So don't get why there should be consequences from that rant. 

 

Liking the same music does not a relationship make. Or break. And maybe Kevin would say Patrick is more fun than Brady (what does he even know about Brady anyhow?). But would he say that Patrick is more fun than Jon?

I think sharing similar tastes can have a significant impact on how long lasting a relationship is, but maybe it is my cultural bias showing. Having said that, I daresay there are many long term relationships where the parties don't have the same tastes. I just like that Patrick and Kevin get each other in this case, and I think that's an important foundation of their friendship. And they are friends, in a way that Patrick and Richie aren't. Having said that, I haven't found evidence that Kevin finds Jon more fun. If Kevin finds Jon more fun, Kevin should be with Jon, not Patrick. If Richie finds Brady more fun, Richie should be with Brady. Patrick should not be, IMO, with a guy, who finds someone else (be it Jon or Brady) more fun. 

[discorules]

I was sad to hear the show's ratings are in the toilet. Personally I love it as I am starved for gay entertainment that's not porn. I have heard that Girls has already been renewed for another season. Any word on Looking?

 

Off topic but I have heard Shameless has a gay storyline that I'm curious about. I've never seen the show. Are there any Looking/Shameless fans who would recommend it? I guess that's a dumb question cause I would assume if you're a Shameless fan you'd recommend the show!

Edited February 25, 2015 by discorules

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Yes, I would recommend Shameless! That particular relationship really changes over the course of five seasons.

[discorules]

Thanks, EB!

[Garnett7]

 

Paddy is uncomfortable bottoming, so he must have bottom shame. He is trying to understand the psychic, which is a completely new experience for him, so he must be looking down on Richie's culture. Paddy is tense and doesn't want to have pot before going to his sister's wedding, how dare he

 

Except everything you listed is about PATRICK's issues, not Richie being "self-righteous". I didn't see him trying to condemn Patrick for not being comfortable bottoming. Ragging Patrick some, sure. Hoping to understand him, maybe. But not being judgemental towards him.

 

Neither did I see Richie get "self-righteous" because Patrick had a pointless flip out over visiting a psychic. Paddy also flipped out over taking Richie to the wedding and made it about Richie suggesting he have a joint and calm down. Patrick was in a tizzy long before the pot was brought out. Patrick latched on to it as a way to justify his freak out over having to introduce Richie to his family. Turns out, Mama Patrick would've enjoyed a joint with Richie. To me, Patrick is the one who'd be exhausting to be around. Who wants to wade through that neurotic ocean of issues on a daily basis?

 

I imagine Richie has been looked down on and condescended to many times in his life beause on his race and culture. Does he get defensive when he feels that is happening again? Sure. Who wouldn't? I'm still impressed he didn't punch the hell out of Augustine that day in the park. But I don't see any "self-righteousness" in any of that.

 

 

As the person who wrote the article, I'd hope Brady knows more about what he wrote than Patrick, a reader. Maybe that's reaching.

 

My comment was that Brady knew more about the subject of his article, not the writing itself. Of course he'd know more about the words he'd written. But the subject matter (PrEP) was what the group was discussing. Patrick tried to make himself sound like a know-it-all when he clearly knew little about the topic. Hadn't even read the article. If he looked stupid, that was his fault. Not Brady's.

 

 

Anyway, my point is not that Brady is not that fun, but that shouldn't Patrick want to be with someone who enjoys being with Patrick, more than he enjoys being with Brady, say? Shouldn't that be a bare minimum criterion?

 

Of course he should. Everyone should be with the person who finds them fun and exciting. For the record, I am NOT a Patrick/Richie shipper. I'm just a Richie fan. I'd rather he stayed far away from the hot mess that is Patrick. My point is that I loved that Richie didn't let Patrick's jab at Brady go. Paddy was looking for some reassurance that he was better than Brady in Richie's eyes. Richie didn't diss the guy he's currently dating to stroke Patrick's ego. Loyalty. Another non "self-righteous" virtue of his that I appreciate.

[romantic idiot]

I wasn't talking about Brady's words, if Brady is writing an article about Prep (sp?), I hope he would bother to learn more about Prep (sp?) than the average reader. 

 

re: Richie, I'll get into this somewhere else, not really relevant to this episode. But assuming someone has bottom shame because they don't like bottoming, is, to me, an indication of Richie assuming issues that Paddy may not, indeed, have. 

[Garnett7]

Eh, it's Patrick. If there's an issue to be had, he has it.

[Irlandesa]

re: Richie, I'll get into this somewhere else, not really relevant to this episode. But assuming someone has bottom shame because they don't like bottoming, is, to me, an indication of Richie assuming issues that Paddy may not, indeed, have. 

 

Season 1 Patrick reeked of it. He had bottom shame.  He had gay shame.  He had class shame. When he spoke of coming out, he talked about how it was like his parents saw him going from straight to into "buttfucking."  Those were his words and not words his parents used.  At the end of the fifth episode last season, he said he might like...in the future...  It was Richie who said "fuck you?"  Patrick couldn't ask for it.  He couldn't say it. 

 

Richie listened to Patrick.  He listened to everything Patrick said.  And when Patrick shared his previous bottoming experiences, Richie wondered if Patrick had bottom shame and Patrick admitted he might.   But he didn't judge him for it.  Not the way Agustin mocked him.  Not the way he mocked his own 'gay voice.'

 

When that episode aired, it was praised for talking about bottom shame because it's real. It exists.  It taps into society's need to have defined gender roles even in same sex relationships.  It touches the undercurrent of misogyny in not wanting to be "the woman" as if that made someone less than.  Those undercurrents can seep down into a gay man (and even woman)'s psyche.  And Patrick?  Is exactly the kind of guy whose psyche would be affected by that kind of thing. 

 

Patrick was giving off so many vibes, I think it was perceptive of Richie. Not thinking it would be akin to Jon not realizing anything is going on with Kevin & Patrick.    Oh yeah, Patrick also admitted it.

 

He's bottoming now so that must mean he doesn't have it anymore, right?  Maybe.  But I think the biggeset bragging moment he had this season was when he was talking to Dom about his evolution into "power top."  He's giving into what feels good but the boy definitely still has the issues.

[Irlandesa]

The cast of Looking was at Paleyfest yesterday.  Here is a summary of sorts:

 

http://www.frontiersmedia.com/frontiers-blog/2015/02/26/17-things-we-learned-at-last-nights-looking-paley-center-event/

 

They held back on spoilers in this article but a lot were spilled because Ep 7 was shown before the Q&A.  Groff had the loosest lips when it came to what was upcoming. 

 

Some things coming up:

 

Eddie and Agustin will have sex in episode...8 I think.  One of the creators said it was his favorite se scene.

 

Kevin and Patrick reunite at the end of the next episode.  Jon and Kevin have broken up.

Episode 8 seems will show Patrick and Kevin together without the weight of the affair.

 

The "shit hits the fan" in episode 10 where decisions are made about what each of them want out of a relationship.

 

Groff says (and he has said this before) that he feels the conversations beween patrick & Kevin and Doris & Dom in that episode are so unique to the gay experience.

 

It does sound like Doris and Dom hit some rocky times.  [Episode descriptions confirm this although they make it seem like it's for financial reasons.  -- I wonder if Doris inherits money that she doesn't give Dom.]  From the way they spoke, it looks like there is some tension now that Doris has a boyfriend.  For the longest time, they were each other's most trusted confidant.  Even when Dom was with his boyfriend from years ago, he was a terrible boyfriend and Doris was his rock.  So now that Doris has someone else, I suspect Dom will feel like he's losing her somewhat.

ETA:  Here is the full panel.

 

http://www.advocate.com/arts-entertainment/2015/02/26/7-hilarious-doris-quotes-paley-looking-panel?page=0,1

 

And on page one are some funny Lauren quotes.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Irlandesa

[bunnywithanaxe]

Team " Kevin get your green card wedding already " and Team " Richie relegate Patrick's silly ass to the friend zone, you deserve better."

Patrick deserves Augustin.

[SimoneS]

Where is Richie in all these spoilers?

[fastiller]

Team RichicPleaseComeHangOutWithMeEvenThoughMyReproductiveOrgansAreMostlyInsideMyBody!

[Irlandesa]

Raul seemed like the quietest one on the panel.  I've noticed that in his interviews in general, especially if he's with another castmate.  It seems like he prefers that someone else do the talking.

 

He also had the tightest lips in that when he was asked about anything that seemed like it might be a spoiler.  I think he was asked what the nature of his relationship with Brady was (rebound or real...etc.) and he pretty much said that the audience should keep watching and they'd see. Now if Jon Groff had been asked a question like that, he'd  say something like "in episode 8, you see this conversation that sheds some light onto their relationship but in episode 9, you'll see that maybe things weren't as clear cut as they seemed"  and we could infer some things through the way he answered.  Lauren was also pretty open and the producers accidentally let an ep 8 spoiler slip.  But Raul doesn't do that so no spoilers.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Irlandesa

[SimoneS]

 But Raul doesn't do that so no spoilers.

 

Thanks. I was a bit worried that we would not see Richie at all.

[SanDiegoInExile]

Can't find the full Paley video, just some decent pre-interviews.

 

 

ETA:

Found it. 66 minutes

https://screen.yahoo.com/live/event/paleylive-la-an-evening-with-looking

Edited March 1, 2015 by SanDiegoInExile

[wayne67]

Season 1 Patrick reeked of it. He had bottom shame.  He had gay shame.  He had class shame. When he spoke of coming out, he talked about how it was like his parents saw him going from straight to into "buttfucking."  Those were his words and not words his parents used.  At the end of the fifth episode last season, he said he might like...in the future...  It was Richie who said "fuck you?"  Patrick couldn't ask for it.  He couldn't say it. 

 

Richie listened to Patrick.  He listened to everything Patrick said.  And when Patrick shared his previous bottoming experiences, Richie wondered if Patrick had bottom shame and Patrick admitted he might.   But he didn't judge him for it.  Not the way Agustin mocked him.  Not the way he mocked his own 'gay voice.'

 

When that episode aired, it was praised for talking about bottom shame because it's real. It exists.  It taps into society's need to have defined gender roles even in same sex relationships.  It touches the undercurrent of misogyny in not wanting to be "the woman" as if that made someone less than.  Those undercurrents can seep down into a gay man (and even woman)'s psyche.  And Patrick?  Is exactly the kind of guy whose psyche would be affected by that kind of thing. 

 

Patrick was giving off so many vibes, I think it was perceptive of Richie. Not thinking it would be akin to Jon not realizing anything is going on with Kevin & Patrick.    Oh yeah, Patrick also admitted it.

 

He's bottoming now so that must mean he doesn't have it anymore, right?  Maybe.  But I think the biggeset bragging moment he had this season was when he was talking to Dom about his evolution into "power top."  He's giving into what feels good but the boy definitely still has the issues.

 

I don't think Patrick has gay shame or bottom shame or any particular shame. I just think he's high strung...

 

When he described his previous bottoming experience it came across as he was more uncomfortable about the process and judging by his reaction to the random in the pilot trying to have casual sex with him I don't think Patrick is all that experienced with gay sex or relationships.

 

Richie may be the first time someone took the time to get him in the right mind set and took it slow. Now that there's not so much expectation around it, he's more comfortable doing it but he's not comfortable comfortable about it because he's super uptight about everything as evidenced by the later episode where he's stressing about how much colonic to use to be fresh as a stream for Kevin.

 

As for him admitting he MIGHT have bottom shame. I took that as Patrick being his usual hypochondriac self and jumping on anything to get stressed about.  Casual one night stands don't tend to put that much effort into working through your anxieties about sex, they just want to root and go. YMMV

 

Patrick is a red hot mess of anxiety and insecurity. Which isn't that surprising considering that everyone seems to treat him as an entitled WASP or a country bumpkin. It's hard to know who you are when everyone is trying to tell you how to act and psycho analysing you at every turn so you don't even get a chance to figure out why you do things. Sometimes a cigar is just a big unwieldy cigar.

Edited March 1, 2015 by wayne67

[Irlandesa]

I just think he's high strung...

But the thing they've had him the higest strung about, the things he's the most uncomfortable with, aren't related to mundane things.  They're related to being gay, class, his family...etc.

 

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar but I don't think shallow is what Looking is going for. Everything is carefully chosen to say something about the characters.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Irlandesa

[DollEyes]

 I liked this episode. despite the absence of Dom & Doris, there were some nice moments. Patrick actually showed some growth when he finally realized that the chances of Kevin leaving Jon anytime soon if ever are slim to none. When Kevin changed his mind about breaking up with Jon at the end of the previous episode, Patrick saw the light and figured out that while Kevin may talk the talk about wanting a future with Patrick, when it comes to walking the walk, not so much. The only truly likable person in this whole mess is Jon. Based on what I've seen so far, Jon is a sweet and supportive guy (when Kevin lets him be) who deserves much better than what he's got. So Kevin & Patrick feel bad about hurting Jon? Good-they should. I have about as much concern for Patrick & Kevin's feelings as they do about Jon's.

 

  The only time I could stand Patrick in this episode was when he was with Richie. Patrick's desire to try to be friends with Richie was mature of Patrick, for the most part.  Richie's side business of flipping old food trucks for profit showed that Richie's about more than cutting hair, not that that's wrong. Visiting Richie's old neighborhood exposed some interesting things about Richie, much of which was revealed by Riche's cousin Ceci, who's hilarious. The way Ceci put Patrick on blast for his past treatment of Richie was on point.  The visit also exposed that the reason why Richie's other visits were so sporadic is because of Richie's strained relationship with his father, who has problems with Riche's being gay and apparently so does Richie's asshole cousin Hector. Patrick even gave Richie some good advice about dealing with his dad. Patrick's confessing to Richie about starting his affair with Kevin the same night that Richie confessed his feelings to Patrick was cringe-worthy, but Richie, to his credit, didn't freak out. Richie was upset, but instead of losing it and walking out on Patrick, Richie chose to stay friends, which shows Growth on Richie's part.  If Richie really wanted to make Patrick feel guilty, then he would have mentioned the $200 that he borrowed from Ceci for that suit he planned to wear to Patrick's sister Megan's wedding before they had their fight. That Richie didn't do that is just more proof that Richie is a much better person than Patrick.

 

  Believe it or not, Agustin is rapidly becoming one of my favorite characters and that's because of his budding relationship with  Eddie. Their rapport is wonderful, as shown by their conversation about Eddie's HIV status, their dancing together and their kisses. Eddie is someone who makes Agustin laugh, challenges him and brings out the best in him.

[DollEyes]

  As this episode showed, Patrick's newfound maturity in general and when it comes to his exes in particular was too good to last. Patrick's Halloween party was his latest bad idea, proving that an obscure costume, a lame playlist, booze, Patrick's exes and their significant others don't mix. Instead of dressing as Gordon Freeman, Patrick should've just worn ass-less chaps given how much he showed his ass, whether it was his not knowing that Eddie and his cute friend Jack were dressed as Bilbo Baggins and Legolas, Patrick's rudeness to Jack, his attempt to mack on Jack because he saw Richie and Brady kissing or his meltdown after he saw Kevin and Jon together. That Dom, Agustin and Richie forgave Patrick afterwards said much better about them than it does about him. If Jon wasn't suspicious about Kevin & Patrick before, if he is now I wouldn't be surprised. The only reason Jon might seem like a fool at this point is because Kevin and Patrick have been playing him for one for months and he doesn't even seem to know it, much less deserve it. Then there was Patrick's debate with Brady about the latter's article on PrEP. Brady sounded like a bit of a know-it-all on the subject, but he still came off better than Patrick.

 

 

Eh, it's Patrick. If there's an issue to be had, he has it.

 

  Amen to that. Richie may have his problems, but Patrick's a much bigger mess than Richie could ever be and the party was just another example of it. At least Richie had the guts to stand up for Brady at this party, unlike Patrick did for Richie at Dom's birthday party last season. Richie is the kind of person who not only calls people on their shit, he tells them how much shit they're full of, which is another reason why I heart him.

 

  Agustin's ascention continues. His attitude was better than Patrick's, his behavior was better than Patrick's and even his costume was better than Patrick's. When Agustin stood up to Kevin on Patrick's behalf, I was impressed. That showed maturity and loyalty on Agustin's part, especially since it was after Patrick's meltdown.

[sinkwriter]

I just finally got to see this episode. 

 

Whoa.

 

The more Patrick talked, the more I started to rock in my seat, clutch myself and say, "Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god..." Dom's right. "Train wreck" is the definite phrase for it.

 

But I feel bad for Patrick because he was like a pressure cooker all evening. No one knew what his costume was, no one likes his music or his party plans (Patrick, I totally would have sung karaoke with you, man), he's getting increasingly more drunk, he sees everyone coupling up, sees Richie and Brady kissing away, which really had to sting (there's hearing about your ex-boyfriend's new boyfriend and then there's seeing it live in person to make it painfully vivid), he makes a fool of himself in front of everyone by arguing about Brady's article, all that is built up and then... THEN Kevin walks in and brings his boyfriend.

 

Honestly, I think in Patrick's naive mind, he saw inviting Kevin as a mature thing to do but also somehow never pictured that Kevin would come or that if he did it would be by himself (because Patrick's right -- why on earth would you bring your boyfriend to the party of someone you had cheated on him with??).

 

So he sees Kevin and Jon and it's too much, everything's built up and now the top is blowing off and he just starts talking and can't stop. He's hurt and he's drunk and he just wants to say everything. Thank goodness for Dom and Augustin stepping in and shutting him up before he said even more (though I think he said enough that unless Jon is completely drunk he's got to remember that curiously provocative statement in the morning and start thinking about it and wanting to question Kevin).

 

It's just this nightmare embarrassing mess, and I feel for Patrick because he's the type of guy who seems to care too much about what everyone thinks about him, and for him to embarrass himself this much? It's going to be a rough, rough morning when he wakes up with that hangover and the knowledge of everything he said.

 

What's interesting is -- even though he said it all in the harshest, most embarrassing ways -- what he said wasn't exactly untrue. He loves Dom, and Dom could use some support, however small, from his friends for his chicken restaurant window venture. Augustin is making money now, he should pay some of the rent. And he has made a huge turn in his life after the past year and all the ways he's fucked up his life; that's admirable. (But I'm sure he didn't really want to hear about it from his best friend in the middle of a party and have it exposed under such harsh light, especially the part about Richie dragging him home from the lying in the gutter. OUCH.)

 

But oh man that was hard to watch. Those kinds of complete disaster train wreck moments always make me want to hide under a blanket.

 

Also? I am totally Patrick. Geeky, awkward, and into stuff that no one seems to think is cool anymore. Which is why I hardly ever drink, because who knows what I would say to people in my too-honest drunkenness. It would be horrible. LOL.

[sinkwriter]

What I continue to love is the friendships. Seeing Agustin stand up for Patrick ("Actually, I do mind") so that he wouldn't have to be alone with Kevin, and seeing Dom just reach his arms out for Patrick as he climbed into bed... really and truly sweet.

 

And though I would have been interested to hear what Richie had to say, I think his expression toward Patrick seemed to say it all. Almost like he was saying, "You need some help. You really fell apart." The look said he knows Patrick is a mess, and that he knows Patrick cares about him but he also can see Patrick's not ready for a relationship because there's so much he needs to do to take care of himself first. Yikes.

 

Looking at that moment again, I also think Richie's expression said, "You're a mess, but you'll be okay. I see you."

Edited March 1, 2015 by sinkwriter

[wayne67]

But the thing they've had him the higest strung about, the things he's the most uncomfortable with, aren't related to mundane things.  They're related to being gay, class, his family...etc.

 

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar but I don't think shallow is what Looking is going for. Everything is carefully chosen to say something about the characters.

 

To be fair the only consistent non gay trait he's had is being a level developer. Something mundane like fixing the CGI in the game was quickly overshadowed by his boss flirting with him. His whole life on screen boils down to being gay and he seems to have the least experience in doing gay stuff probably because he used to be a fat geek.

 

Patrick is uncomfortable wearing leather, do we have to assume that he has leather shame? Personally I just think Patrick is a shy nerdy introvert that is super neurotic and he's not comfortable around all the super breezy slutty gay extroverts that populate his life. I don't think that necessarily makes him ashamed of being a gay WASP. Patrick seems to have issues around intensity levels, he's either super reluctant about something or he's super intense about stuff. I don't think we've seen much of a middle ground for him except when he's just chilling with his friends and even then they mock him quite frequently for his failings. YMMV

 

Why is Augustine not paying any rent ? He's got a job now. Even if he couldn't cover the whole amount, it'd be nice if it didn't feel like he was leeching off his 'too nice' friend. I am glad that they toned down Augustine a little, he's slightly more tolerable now.

 

ETA: He freaked out about bed bugs which was only tangentially related to gay butt sex.

Edited March 1, 2015 by wayne67

[Primetimer]

Doris and Dom's friendship makes Mark cry.

Read the story

[vixenbynight]

Kevin, being on Patrick's stoop, saying that he left Jon was very convenient and offscreen. There's more to be developed and learned about that breakup, in the next upcoming episodes. Way too convenient.

They had scenes of Dom resolving his issues with his ex. Frank was able to unleash hell onto Agustin, but we get Kevin saying that he left Jon and that's it.

Doris and Dom have a lovely history together and I'm glad that she called Malik. When she ran into his arms, sobbing and grasping for him, that hit me hard. As much as she needed Dom to be there for her, she also wanted Malik there for support.

[Irlandesa]

Patrick is uncomfortable wearing leather, do we have to assume that he has leather shame?

Those weren't leather shoes he was putting on.  It was a very specific outfit that gives off a very specific impression that Patrick was wholly uncomfortable with.

 

ETA: He freaked out about bed bugs which was only tangentially related to gay butt sex.

No, the bed bug panic and the HIV panic were both directly related to his dirty dirty affair which he was ashamed of. 

 

In its description, it says this show is about three gay men navigating life in San Fran but in reality, this show is about Patrick.  We learn about other characters but more than not, people who enter Patrick's life are to shine a light on his characteristics and tangentially their own characteristics. 

 

[CMH1981]

I hate to admit it but Kevin's profession of being utterly in love w/ Patrick after telling him he left Jon made me swoon, it was a romantic moment but yes...I know we are only getting one side of the story.  I'm thinking he hasn't told Jon the entire truth of the cheating, and I still think that Jon will come around and let Patrick know that Kevin does this all the time....looking for greener pastures but always comes back.

 

Doris breaking down into Malik's arms was just sad, Dom is her rock throughout life, but she needed her man at this time.

 

I did not see that car crash coming...I thought Patrick was going to end up driving into the gate across the street.  I guess Dom's father doesn't care for the fact that his son is gay so he sends a truck down to comment.

[HunterHunted]

I have to admit even though I find Patrick awful, maybe because I find him awful, his crying jag at a funeral for someone he probably didn't know is hilarious to me.  It feels like it was lifted from a European film.

Oh, it was completely hilarious and I think intentionally so. Like it was laugh out loud funny. Most of the Patrick stuff was funny because it landed with a thud with the rest of the characters. Honestly, this is probably the episode that makes a strong case for the future of this show. It was funny, sad, touching, and had great characters stuff.

Doris running to Malik got me too.

I'm not in love with Kevin and Patrick, but I was charmed by Kevin grabbing on to Patrick's ears. Nice role reversal of what everyone says they want to do with Russell Tovey.

[bunnywithanaxe]

I am totally in love with Donut Girl. Just had to say that.

[Milaxx]

I am so nervous that Doris will do something to push Malik away. I want her to be happy and see how good he is for her. 

 

I don't trust Kevin one bit. Even if he did indeed break up with Jon, I just don't trust him not to go back. Basically I don't trust him not to hurt Patrick.

[wayne67]

No, the bed bug panic and the HIV panic were both directly related to his dirty dirty affair which he was ashamed of. 

 

In its description, it says this show is about three gay men navigating life in San Fran but in reality, this show is about Patrick.  We learn about other characters but more than not, people who enter Patrick's life are to shine a light on his characteristics and tangentially their own characteristics. 

 

His coworker friend seemed to take even more extreme measures against Bed bugs than Patrick. I can understand why those two are friends.

 

I know more about what Dom wants for his life than I do about Patrick. I don't know what Patrick wants to do with the rest of his life. At one point the other guy wanted to be an artist.

 

Patrick has no goals that I know of. If he's supposed to the main character with everyone orbiting him I'd expect to have some greater insight into his desires, I mostly know he has issues with basically everything. lol

[Irlandesa]

I think Patrick would have to know what he wants from life before we get clued in.  I think he hasn't got a clue.  I think he keeps trying things looking for an answer. 

[Irlandesa]

One man's "left Jon" is another man's "Jon kicked me out."  I suspect the latter is closer to the truth than the former, especially since I think Jon was getting a clue after the whole Halloween party.  Time will tell if I'm right or wrong on that angle.

 

I found it interesting that Doris collapsed into Malik's arms.  It really shows how close to him she has gotten that she could trust him with those emotions that she hadn't been able to share with Dom and Patrick. 

 

I think Doris getting money to invest in Dom's chicken joint was convenient but I will take it over them raising the money through Kickstarter. 

 

There were some other things that I found hard to believe.  For instance, Doris can get told via text that her dad is dead but Kevin couldn't shoot Patrick a text saying that he and Jon were over?  And instead we got a door stoop moment.  I know it makes for better TV but it's just as ridiculous as last year when Richie was waiting there. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Patrick looks forward to debuting his new game app at the GaymerX convention with Kevin, but he's afraid their booth might be too conservative. Meanwhile, Dom shows Doris and Malik how his take-out window is coming along; and Agustín is nervous about getting intimate with HIV-positive Eddie.

 

Promo:

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside the episode:

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Doris: Don't be mad at me. You should be happy. I've had seventeen orgasms in the last five days.

Dom: And I've had the pleasure of hearing like fifteen of them.

 

Doris: Malik asked me if he could come [to the funeral] and I told him no. Am I a monster? I just feel like I didn't know what I was going to do with him in Modesto. We're gonna go on the tour of the Frito Lay factory or something?

Patrick: Omigawd, can we please go there? I love Frito Lays.

 

Dom: Did you know this used to be a Portuguese diner?

Donut cashier: What's that?

Dom: It's a diner where they serve Portuguese food.

Donut cashier: Oh, that sounds super exotic.

 

Dom: How's your arm?

Patrick: It hurts like hell. I'm not going to be able to masturbate for two weeks.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

My dad died a year ago this week so I could relate to a lot of what Doris was going through. I'm not sure how I feel about Dom convincing her to see her dad's body though. I don't necessarily think it's something you regret if you don't do it. Of course, I say that as someone who did see my dad's body. But if someone else said they didn't want to see their parents' body, I wouldn't try to persuade them otherwise.

 

I also moved away from my hometown so I could relate to some of Dom's experience, going back and running into people. That actually happened to me at when I went to my friend's mom's funeral. I saw all these people who I hadn't seen since high school so most of the wake was me catching up with random people. It's funny how quickly you can revert back to feeling like a kid when you are around your family or people you knew from your youth.

 

It was really sweet for Doris to suggest that Dom talk to one of the other gravestones because they all talk to each other. I wondered why they didn't just go to the office at the cemetery. They can find exactly which headstone you are looking for and give you a map to find it.

 

As annoying as Patrick can be, I really felt for him when he started crying at the funeral. I wasn't anywhere near as bad as Patrick was (which I, too, found funny), but I did cry a lot more than I thought I would at my first funeral, especially considering that it was for someone I didn't really know either(my sister's best friend's mom).

 

 

One man's "left Jon" is another man's "Jon kicked me out."  I suspect the latter is closer to the truth than the former, especially since I think Jon was getting a clue after the whole Halloween party.

 

Ha, ITA. And on the off chance that Kevin did actually break up with Jon, my guess is that Kevin did a pre-emptive break up and conveniently left out anything about Patrick. Either way, I don't trust Kevin and I think there is more to the breakup story than he has told Patrick so far.

Edited March 2, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[vixenbynight]

One man's "left Jon" is another man's "Jon kicked me out." I suspect the latter is closer to the truth than the former, especially since I think Jon was getting a clue after the whole Halloween party. Time will tell if I'm right or wrong on that angle.

I found it interesting that Doris collapsed into Malik's arms. It really shows how close to him she has gotten that she could trust him with those emotions that she hadn't been able to share with Dom and Patrick.

I think Doris getting money to invest in Dom's chicken joint was convenient but I will take it over them raising the money through Kickstarter.

There were some other things that I found hard to believe. For instance, Doris can get told via text that her dad is dead but Kevin couldn't shoot Patrick a text saying that he and Jon were over? And instead we got a door stoop moment. I know it makes for better TV but it's just as ridiculous as last year when Richie was waiting there.

HAHAHA.

I think and hope, that we'll have more onscreen follow up to the breakup between Jon and Kevin. It was way too simple, clean and offscreen for it to be something that will work for the possible future for Kevin and Patrick.

I don't think that Doris couldn't trust Dom or Patrick to break down in front of them. I think that Doris didn't realize that she really needed Malik to be there for her as well. She knows that her friends, will always be there for her, but now, she also has her guy there for her.

[shrewd.buddha]

From the article : 

Previously, I could only see Dom and Doris's roommate situation as a case of doubly arrested development, and the writing certainly supported that...

Unfortunately, for me, this whole episode felt as if it was written for three teenagers going to someone's grandparent's funeral - to whom they were not especially close.

Doris is a grown-ass woman. Her father died. She was his only child and they were very close. - - But she has no involvement in the funeral arrangements, settling the estate, deciding what to do with his belongings or property, etc, etc, etc.??  Instead, she and Dom turn it into a nostalgic party weekend, drinking and avoiding family members.

 

...And Patrick is there for self-involved reasons and because it's his show, basically. And he cries uncontrollably at the funeral - but for his own reasons, not for Doris' loss. And he brings up stories of his perceived sad childhood at every opportunity.  Patrick is becoming less and less of a sympathetic character for me. 

 

I found it sad because it sort of made Dom and Doris appear as if they had run off to Neverland and had not grown into adults, despite being 40-ish. I thought Dom was sheepish swapping stories with the guy from his hometown, not because he was coming out to him, but because his "what have you been doing for the past 20 years" response might have only amounted to "living for the weekend and working as a waiter". 

(But we don't know everything about Dom's past, so maybe there's more. I do hope he has had some cooking or business classes if he has always wanted to open a restaurant.)

 

And finally - three adults who cannot figure out how to find a grave marker in a cemetery - and then just give up trying.

Again, maybe that could have been cute for teenagers, but not here. 

 

There's just not enough time or internet to contain all the comments that could be applied to the Kevin+Patrick disaster-in-the-making. But considering Kevin's past behavior, I would never trust his version .. of anything..

Edited March 2, 2015 by shrewd.buddha

[romantic idiot]

There were some other things that I found hard to believe.  For instance, Doris can get told via text that her dad is dead but Kevin couldn't shoot Patrick a text saying that he and Jon were over?  And instead we got a door stoop moment.  I know it makes for better TV but it's just as ridiculous as last year when Richie was waiting there. 

 

I think Doris being told over text was heinous, actually, and an indication of the tension that the writers were talking about. Also how she was left out of the funeral arrangements. Some resentment there. And maybe her father made Aunt Sara the executor of the will and tasked her with the funeral arrangements so that Doris wouldn't have that burden. 

 

Re: the Dom / Doris relationship, i found it interesting from a gay perspective. They touched on it a little bit, but I did wonder how much of Doris's commitment phobia comes from her shock of her high school sweetheart coming out to her. Maybe he came out after they were already over, though. 

 

RE: Kevin / Patrick - these f*ckers are going to find a way to take this away from me, aren't they?

[Garnett7]

 

One man's "left Jon" is another man's "Jon kicked me out."  I suspect the latter is closer to the truth than the former, especially since I think Jon was getting a clue after the whole Halloween party.  Time will tell if I'm right or wrong on that angle.

 

That was my thoughts exactly! LOL! I was like, "Yeah, you left him or he confronted you and made you come clean after the party?" There's 3 episodes left so I suspect we'll see more on this front.

 

Gee, Paddy, way to make the death of a friend's father all about you. Nice.

 

I do adore the friendship between Dom and Doris. They're so good to each other.

[Momof2boyz]

As a straight woman, I would have a hard time being roommates/best friends with someone I was once sexually intimate with!  I get their friendship, but I didn't realize they had been together before he came out!  That would just be really weird for me.

[Milaxx]

One man's "left Jon" is another man's "Jon kicked me out."  I suspect the latter is closer to the truth than the former, especially since I think Jon was getting a clue after the whole Halloween party.  Time will tell if I'm right or wrong on that angle.

 

...........

 

There were some other things that I found hard to believe.  For instance, Doris can get told via text that her dad is dead but Kevin couldn't shoot Patrick a text saying that he and Jon were over?  And instead we got a door stoop moment.  I know it makes for better TV but it's just as ridiculous as last year when Richie was waiting there. 

Jon kicking Kevin out sounds closer to the truth.  Also Kevin repeatedly called Patrick all weekend. Patrick refused to take his calls. I actually respect Kevin a little for not trusting that info to a text. I still think Kevin/Patrick is a collision course with heartbreak but his not texting isn't an issue for me.

[Momof2boyz]

Sorry double post

Edited March 2, 2015 by Momof2boyz