S02.E07: I Have No Room In My Heart For Hate

[Athena]

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Will asks an old friend for help as Riley embarks on a risky journey. Kala makes a troubling discovery. Sun has an intense encounter in the cemetery.

[Mindthinkr]

I'm amazed at the prowess of Sun. (Or is it the stunt coordinator?) 

[Helena Dax]

Another amazing fight! I just love her. And really, the Inspector's too cute for words. I'm glad he already knows there's something fishy about the brother. Also, I liked the conversation about revenge. As much as I want to see Sun ripping his brother's heart out with her bare hands, I think he'd suffer more in prison. 

I know I should be surprised to see Jonas, but we've been seeing dead people hanging around since the first episode so it's like, well, why shouldn't he show up too?

The best part of the episode was seeing Lito's flip-flops together again.

[Advance35]

OMG Detective Mun. Hubba Hubba Hubba.  If I thought I stood even a fraction of a chance, I'd fight Sun for him. Woof.   That cemetery fight/flirt between the two was incredible.  Sun was literally knocking the sh&t out of him.   The fact that he was still so confident throughout was VERY attractive.  I like that Sun likes the Detective despite's herself.   I worry for him because last season, Sun  had an idealistic lawyer that seemed determined to help her before he was forced to withdraw his support.  This Detective doesn't seem like he bows to pressure and i'm glad that he and the police force seem to know that her brother is up to a lot of illegal stuff.   Just a very good character pairing.

That scene of Sun's in the graveyard pre-fight was also incredible, in a different way.   The flashback with her Mother displayed a woman who admired her own daughter so much she cried.  Sun's mother was clearly very special and it's know wonder the family had an ever-lasting hole in it after she was gone.  I hope Sun will eventually realize that she did everything she could for her family and that what happened and who her brother became was no fault of hers.  The scene showed how strong Sun is but it also showed that she doesn't always FEEL strong.   And even though I am in no way surprised, I'm glad the Cluster let her know that they are there for her, Always.  

This has to be one of the most emotionally moving shows I've ever seen.

I worry for Capheaus and his pursuit of politics, but I can also understand why he wants to make a difference.  ESPECIALLY after what he learned about Kala's husband.  And after the flashback of Capheaus's mother, it's so easy to see where he got that genuine sense of wanting to help others.  His mother showed a strong ability to move past fear, we saw it last season when she left that village when they wanted Capheaus sent away and this episode, when she gave her support for his running for Office.  Capheaus is a lot to lose, so not giving into fear isn't easy.   His father's words showed the echo of her sons.  Very poignant.

I simply can't type out all the Awesome of this episode.  I was pulled into every character and storyline.

Lito, Hernando and Dani- My favorite 3 Musketeers.  Couldn't believe her Parents would just overlook that thug beating up on their daughter. I would have stayed with Lito and Hernando as well.   Sometimes we have to build our own families and I think this show displays that very well.

Disappointed in Rajan but not entirely surprised.  I always felt he was to good to be true.   And his business colleague?  Does anyone get the impression he has a carnal interest in Kala?  I've gotten a vibe of flirtation each time he's encountered Kala.   It's a shame I get a sinister vibe from them since they are so hot.

Riley-Will and Diego was another threesome I loved this episode.  Will's life wasn't byzantine but it was his and he misses it.  He wouldn't trade Riley and the Cluster for the world but he still misses the family he had before they came into his life.

Nomi, Amanita and her family. OMG what a trip.  I FLOVED all of them.  All of her Dad's and her mother.

Amazing. All of it.

[tennisgurl]

Great fight scene! I already love the detective and Sun, you know if she was going to find someone, it would be someone who likes how badass she is, but can still hold his own.

I also loved everyone talking to Sun at her parents grave, and giving her advice and comfort. My favorite part? After everyone gives speeches about how much they love her and think that killing her brother wont make anything better, Wolfgang was just like "You brother is an asshole who deserves to die and if you kill him I will TOTALLY support that". Oh my God I love Wolfie.

I knew that the shooting they kept talking about would tie into the story somehow. No wonder everyone is so scared of being captured by Whispers. What a horrible thing to do to a person, turning them into a mindless murder slaves. Keep away from my poor Sensates!

I loved Will as Riley getting so excited to see home again. Poor Will. At least Diego is in the loop now. I wonder how long it will take for everyone's sidekicks to get involved?

I think my favorite quick scene was when Dani`s asshole ex threatened Lito, and instantly Wolfgang pops up with this hilarious "You wanna get your ass kicked? Because I REALLY wanna kick your ass" smile.

Edited May 8, 2017 by tennisgurl

[SnoGirl]

5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Great fight scene! I already love the detective and Sun, you know if she was going to find someone, it would be someone who likes how badass she is, but can still hold his own.

I also loved everyone talking to Sun at her parents grave, and giving her advice and comfort. My favorite part? After everyone gives speeches about how much they love her and think that killing her brother wont make anything better, Wolfgang was just like "You brother is an asshole who deserves to die and if you kill him I will TOTALLY support that". Oh my God I love Wolfie.

....

I think my favorite quick scene was when Dani`s asshole ex threatened Lito, and instantly Wolfgang pops up with this hilarious "You wanna get your ass kicked? Because I REALLY wanna kick your ass" smile.

These were my favorite two scenes too. I didnt think Wolfgang was my favorite Sensate, but this season he definitely was. He doesnt smile very often with the cluster outside of Kala, but when he does, he's adorable. I think Wolfgang has a special spot for Lito, I wonder if Lito reminds him of an innocent Felix.

[Chaos Theory]

I am not willing to wire Rajan off as a villain just yet.   This show has always been about connections.  The connections between Big pharma and  old and expired drugs being sold to developing countries was too good of a story to not write for especially since there is such a direct connection this show.  It would have been a shame not to have it.  Which is why I am not willing to write Rajan off as a villain just yet.  His father yes.  However I am still curious as to how he will react to the news of his wife not being quite human not to mention her emotional affair with Wolfgang.  That to me is the more interesting storyline so I want Rajan to tow the line.

For every scene with good parents there is a scene with bad ones.  The fact that Dani's parents would rather her go back to an abusive straight guy then hang out with her homosexual friends that she "has a relationship with" made me understand Dani a whole lot more.   It also made me adore the relationship between all three of them (Lito. Hernando and Dani) because whatever you want to call it.  There is a relationship between all three of them.  I like the fact that Amanita's parents all four of them can show that yes a family can grow out of even the most unconventional relationships.  So I see no problem with one growing from Lito, Hernando and Dani.  

The Will/Diego/Riley stuff wasn't exactly my favorite but seeing Diego again was nice.  His reaction to everything was kind of the way alot of people would react.  The "bullshit" reaction.   Until he actually heard from Will and Will apologizes to him.  Then he does what a good friend does.  What all good and true friends do....agrees to help.

I thought the scene where the cluster came to comfort Sun at her parents grave was very well done.  I know people like to talk about the fight between Sun and Mun but I honestly prefer the conversation between Sun and her cluster.    The fact that they didn't give her an easy answer but instead told her what she needed to hear most.  That she wasn't alone.  I thought that scene was beautiful.

And we find Whispers house....and a very alive Jonas.   Twisty.

[jhlipton]

On 5/6/2017 at 2:28 PM, Mindthinkr said:

I'm amazed at the prowess of Sun. (Or is it the stunt coordinator?) 

Both.

On 5/7/2017 at 2:27 PM, Advance35 said:

Does anyone get the impression he has a carnal interest in Kala?  I've gotten a vibe of flirtation each time he's encountered Kala.   It's a shame I get a sinister vibe from them since they are so hot.

No, really -- I didn't see that AT ALL! [/sarcasm]  He's not (quite) as obvious about it as Lita or Puck, but, yeah, he wants her and wants her bad!

On 5/7/2017 at 4:42 PM, tennisgurl said:

I think my favorite quick scene was when Dani`s asshole ex threatened Lito, and instantly Wolfgang pops up with this hilarious "You wanna get your ass kicked? Because I REALLY wanna kick your ass" smile.

"Do you want to get your ass kicked, f___ ... again?"
"Only if you want to get your ass kicked by a f___ ... again!"

So awesome!

On 5/10/2017 at 9:12 PM, Chaos Theory said:

The Will/Diego/Riley stuff wasn't exactly my favorite but seeing Diego again was nice.  His reaction to everything was kind of the way alot of people would react.  The "bullshit" reaction.   Until he actually heard from Will and Will apologizes to him.  Then he does what a good friend does.  What all good and true friends do....agrees to help.

Everybody needs a "funny but annoying sidekick"!  LOL

[tennisgurl]

On ‎5‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 7:51 PM, SnoGirl said:

I think Wolfgang has a special spot for Lito,

I really love the relationship between Lito and Wolfgang, especially this season. While re-watching the season (I don't have a problem! Don't judge me!) I noticed that in a lot of the group party scenes they are hugging or putting their arms around each others shoulders, its super cute. I think Wolfie is really protective of Lito and sees him as being rather innocent and adorable, and Lito thinks Wolfgang is just the ultimate badass and the coolest guy ever. I love the romantic cluster couples, but I really appreciate when they build the platonic (well, platonic ish) relationships between clusters members too.

[jhlipton]

On 5/17/2017 at 5:29 PM, tennisgurl said:

I really love the relationship between Lito and Wolfgang, especially this season.

This was solidified during the "I'm really good at lying."  "I'm really good at fighting." sequence.  So fun.

[Danny Franks]

Will panicking now he's sitting there, unable to do anything but let other people risk themselves. Riley getting annoyed with his panicking. Nomi being the reasonable mediator. 

It was great to see Diego again. Will really didn't do him any favours, with the way he disappeared, but Diego is a solid buddy. And I'd like it if he became part of the sensates' support network. I guess his wife and kids limit how much of a part he can safely play, though. The nods to how well Diego and Will know each other was sweet.

This episode really brought home that Will is the one sensate who has given up the most, so far. His job, his best friend, his home city. His entire life. He's abandoned it all for the cluster. I'm sure they appreciate it, but I'm glad that the show is focusing on it now.

Rajan is a dick. His condescending dismissal of Kala's anger, his utterly uncaring view of selling potentially unsafe drugs to "far away places" that just happen to be poor. I don't care about his apology later.

Had to laugh at Amanita's dads saying that all the mass shootings are down to "some fucking dude who's not getting any". Because it's true. And I don't think I've said it about this season, but Freema Agyeman is so great in this role. I loved her in Doctor Who, and felt she got stiffed badly because of the Rose Tyler fangirls and the 'shippers. I'm glad she's getting the chance to work on a great show, and have such an obviously great time.

Of course Joaquin turns up again. This time with Daniela's parents. Douchebag. But I did love Lito standing up for her, and Wolfgang standing up for him. Heh. Don't mess with a crazy German gangster. Lito losing his representation was kind of inevitable, I guess. Sucks, though.

I'm not really feeling Sun and cop guy. It still feels too contrived that he just happens to be the same kid she fought, beat and had sex with as a teenager.

It twigged that Whispers was behind the mass shooting just as Amanita started showing the video. I knew it would be a zombie or puppet or whatever... but Todd? The evangelical guy who hated being a sensate? That just twists the knife, in so many ways.

It just seems like all of these other sensates, and our cluster, are fucked because of things Angelica has done. Either she's just a monumental fuckup, or she's as bad as Whispers. I'm wondering if Jonah might be also.

[jhlipton]

2 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Had to laugh at Amanita's dads saying that all the mass shootings are down to "some fucking dude who's not getting any". Because it's true.

Too damn true!  If a guy gets dumped by a girl, the cops should raid his house and take any guns purely as a security measure.

[myril]

17 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Rajan is a dick. His condescending dismissal of Kala's anger, his utterly uncaring view of selling potentially unsafe drugs to "far away places" that just happen to be poor. I don't care about his apology later.

Rajan is the average dick, for the culture around him somewhat progressive but still stuck in it. He doesn't quite get that being nice and protective and helpful, a gentleman, doesn't equal being truly respectful and supportive, that doing seemingly a little bit of good is sometimes more harmful even than helpful and is far from doing things rights.

 

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And I don't think I've said it about this season, but Freema Agyeman is so great in this role. I loved her in Doctor Who, and felt she got stiffed badly because of the Rose Tyler fangirls and the 'shippers. I'm glad she's getting the chance to work on a great show, and have such an obviously great time.

Rose Tyler was a great companion but so was Martha Jones, and I loved Martha. Freema was one of the reasons I gave Sense8 a chance in the frist place, and Nominita is one of the reasons I got hooked to the show. Yep, sometimes it's cheesy and Amanita's family seems at times to be too good to be true, but sometimes a little bit of fairy tale fluff is exactly what is needed, an idea about how things could be good. I am a huge fan of gritty and dark and love film noir but as much need a dose of fluff sometimes.

 

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Of course Joaquin turns up again. This time with Daniela's parents. Douchebag. But I did love Lito standing up for her, and Wolfgang standing up for him. Heh. Don't mess with a crazy German gangster.

I couldn't stop laughing when Joaquin tried to grab Dani's bag. Wonderful line delivery by all actors.

 

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It twigged that Whispers was behind the mass shooting just as Amanita started showing the video. I knew it would be a zombie or puppet or whatever... but Todd? The evangelical guy who hated being a sensate? That just twists the knife, in so many ways.

It just seems like all of these other sensates, and our cluster, are fucked because of things Angelica has done. Either she's just a monumental fuckup, or she's as bad as Whispers. I'm wondering if Jonah might be also.

From the start found Jonas not as trustful as some people wanted to see him, ambivalent at best. Same goes for Angelica, though think she truly meant what she asked Jonas to do, to protect the cluster. But there are layers to both their motivations and actions. 

[Lady Calypso]

I'm also disappointed in Rajan, and he's made genuinely bad mistakes, but I don't think he's intending to be a bad guy here. He seems genuine in his apology toward Kala, and I think his father and his partner Ajay are way more aware of the harm they're doing and, thus, way worse. I think Rajan is just easily manipulated and sure, he needs to be punished for his actions with the pharmaceutical company selling expired drugs, but I don't believe that he's suddenly a bad guy for Kala. I'm quite aware that Kala has no romantic feelings for Rajan and she is more interested in Wolfgang so their marriage will dissolve at some point.

I think, for Rajan, he really did grow up around corruption without really realizing it. He didn't become aware of how bad his actions are until Kala, so I really do believe that he'll make steps to change, to become a better man. That's all that is important; if he can learn to change and make better choices, if he can show that he's learned from his terrible mistakes, then not all hope is lost. People can't change their past; they can change their future, though.  

So, I was wondering if we were going to find out a little more about Dani's history, and I'm glad that we finally have. Man, her parents are awful. They'd actually rather their daughter live with an abusive asshole than with two gay men who clearly love and support her. I'm glad Wolfgang showed up for Lito and for Dani. His smug smile made me smile. It was clear that he'd gladly kick Joaquin's ass right then and there, in front of everybody.

I think that Lito losing his job was expected, but it didn't take away from the emotional fallout.

The cemetery cluster scene was very well done. Every time an episode ends and I think I've declared a scene in it my favourite, the next episode happens and another scene seems to pop up on the exact same level. Seeing them all be there for Sun and give a little piece of advice was so sweet. It's nice to know that Sun is never alone.

I also love that Inspector Munn showed up, not because he knew she'd be there, but that he always showed up before shift to hope that she'd be there, coupled with his knowledge that she might show up earlier rather than later. That's smart writing that made a lot of sense and didn't undermine either. I really like the interactions between Sun and Munn. I think their fight wasn't about the fight itself, because we've seen Sun's fight sequences many times, but it was about the trust that was starting to form, the connection that was rebuilding in that moment.

Capheus actually running for office is something that both worries me and intrigues me. I think that the story could go many ways, and I'm not sure if I'll love it, but I do like what it could represent for him. I understand his mother's worry as well, because she doesn't seem worried about what he'll do, but what others will do to him.

I thought it was nice to see Diego again and that he was brought into the loop. I think we'll see a little more of the sensates being truthful with the ones that they love most.

I'm glad we got more on Whispers, including his address. And it was nice to see Jonas again. I figure he might show up at some point.

[AllyB]

On 5/20/2017 at 8:35 PM, jhlipton said:

Too damn true!  If a guy gets dumped by a girl, the cops should raid his house and take any guns purely as a security measure.

That really rang true for me in the wake of Manchester. A 22 year old man deliberately targets an area full of very young women and girls. I have to wonder just how much of his Islamic radicalisation was just an excuse for his 'righteous' anger at all the awful women who never truly appreciated his manliness. Not dissimilar to how the Orlando shooter's motivation was likely anger at all the gay people who dared to be out and accepted while he remained closeted. Or the Nice driver was an abusive husband acting mainly in anger because his wife had finally left him. Sure there were true religious fanatics working to find and groom such men and direct their anger into jihad but the at the root of those mens' actions was angry dudes not getting any.

[darkestboy]

Another one I loved. Sun's scenes with the Clusters at her parents memorial and her fight scenes with Mun were the highlights of this one. I do think she's going to take Wolfgang's approach to dealing with her brother or at the least, consider the option.

Riley meeting Diego and the BPO contact led to some good scenes and while Will was right to be concerned, I did like that the rest of the gang knew that Riley could do it on her own though. Glad we saw a little more of the Old Man of Hoy too.

The scenes with Nomi, Amanita and the latter's family were nice. The terrorism comments had a poignancy to them considering what happened this week in Manchester as well.

I loved Lito/Hernando sticking up for Daniela against her awful ex and just as awful parents. I hated Lito being fired by his agency and I loved that random hot guy who hugged Lito in the lift though.

Kala and Rajan, some interesting things there though I'm hoping they don't totally vilify the latter though. I liked the scenes with Capheus, Zakia and the former's mother as well, 9/10

[possibilities]

I won't repeat things others have said already. just want to say I agree with most of you all about most of everything, and wanted to add a few additional thoughts.

I think Rajan is going to have dangerous push back if he truly does decide to end the corruption. That was the phone call where he was yelling, right? He has co-conspirators, he probably has shareholders, there are a lot of complications for someone trying to stop a massive fraud like this. His best shot is probably to become a whistleblower, not just to try to quietly change his own company alone. But there are real dangers for him whatever way he goes. I'm not saying this as an excuse for him. But I think it will be important for him and Kala to open up to each other and finally become a true team. One of the reasons she doesn't feel anything for him is that the relationship they have is completely superficial, and she knows better. He may not have had anything deeper so it seems great to him. But she has, and no wonder she's bored with it. It's not just the sexual elements; they don't even act like friends. I don't know if I think their relationship can become awesome, but it for sure has no hope if they continue to behave as strangers cohabiting rather than partners attempting to create intimacy.

The Buddhist on the airplane pissed me off. That is not the version of Buddhism I know. Yes, you can't CONTROL anything, but that doesn't mean you don't make efforts on behalf of others and the world. I was truly shocked by that misrepresentation of the teachings. Utter self-absorption and passivity in the face of suffering elsewhere is not the middle way, and in fact it's the opposite of the fundamental principles. Right action and compassion are fundamental to Buddhism, and Gautama himself would have never left the Bodhi tree if not trying to improve things was the agenda. I felt like the show slandered the religion with that horrendous perversion of what it teaches. We are supposed to end suffering, taking refuge in the Buddha, the Dharma, and the sangha (which basically means in the inspirational example of the Buddha, the teachings he gave us, and in each other/community). I could go on and on, but suffice it to say that there is a rich tradition of engagement, not a dictate to focus only on yourself.

I was touched when I realized that Lito was visiting Sun not only so she could give him perspective and model her stoicism for him, but also so that she might be able to experience sympathy and comfort from him and a little of the way he surrenders to his emotions.

I still think Lito can be an action star. He just has to stop putting the approval of bigots ahead of the adulation of everyone else. It would shock me if he couldn't find backers and collaborators, if he stops looking to the usual sources. With millions of people still taking an interest, he's in a better position than most people, to take charge of his own projects.

Happy that Riley is getting to show her guts this season.

Love the show, no dud episodes this season!!

[jhlipton]

15 hours ago, possibilities said:

The Buddhist on the airplane pissed me off. That is not the version of Buddhism I know. Yes, you can't CONTROL anything, but that doesn't mean you don't make efforts on behalf of others and the world. I was truly shocked by that misrepresentation of the teachings. Utter self-absorption and passivity in the face of suffering elsewhere is not the middle way, and in fact it's the opposite of the fundamental principles. Right action and compassion are fundamental to Buddhism, and Gautama himself would have never left the Bodhi tree if not trying to improve things was the agenda. I felt like the show slandered the religion with that horrendous perversion of what it teaches. We are supposed to end suffering, taking refuge in the Buddha, the Dharma, and the sangha (which basically means in the inspirational example of the Buddha, the teachings he gave us, and in each other/community). I could go on and on, but suffice it to say that there is a rich tradition of engagement, not a dictate to focus only on yourself.

I'd have to watch again, but she struck me as a "New Age" Cali "Buddhist" (she had a lot of tattoos as I recall, which is much more a New Age thing than a Buddhist thing).  As such, her being "all about me" made sense.

[Rinaldo]

On 5/26/2017 at 9:41 PM, possibilities said:

I still think Lito can be an action star. He just has to stop putting the approval of bigots ahead of the adulation of everyone else. It would shock me if he couldn't find backers and collaborators, if he stops looking to the usual sources. With millions of people still taking an interest, he's in a better position than most people, to take charge of his own projects.

If he can, he would be the first in history to combine being publicly out with being a big-budget leading man. It'll be wonderful the first time it happens, but it hasn't happened yet. Look at Rupert Everett, who was getting bigger and bigger screen projects (though not even aiming to be an action star) until he went public, then he suddenly seemed to vanish from our screens.

16 hours ago, jhlipton said:

I'd have to watch again, but she struck me as a "New Age" Cali "Buddhist" (she had a lot of tattoos as I recall, which is much more a New Age thing than a Buddhist thing).  As such, her being "all about me" made sense.

Yes, any religion can have adherents who misapply its teachings. I took it that the show is assuming its viewers are sophisticated enough to know the difference.

[AngelKitty]

I've been thinking about Lito and I think he should go into television. Maybe the world isn't ready for a gay actor being a motion picture action star but television is. I mean, look at John Barrowman. Everyone loves Capt. Harkness. And I think he's popular in the Arrow and Flash shows. I don't watch those but I saw the character on Legends of Tomorrow. 

Though whiny Lito is amusing, his career is not over and I want to see him succeed.

[Clanstarling]

59 minutes ago, AngelKitty said:

I've been thinking about Lito and I think he should go into television. Maybe the world isn't ready for a gay actor being a motion picture action star but television is. I mean, look at John Barrowman. Everyone loves Capt. Harkness. And I think he's popular in the Arrow and Flash shows. I don't watch those but I saw the character on Legends of Tomorrow. 

Though whiny Lito is amusing, his career is not over and I want to see him succeed.

I was going to use Barrowman and Captain Jack as an example, but then I realized that was television. As an aside, it was Barrowman and character that helped my child come out. So even though I was already fond of him, this made me love him.

[Danny Franks]

5 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

If he can, he would be the first in history to combine being publicly out with being a big-budget leading man. It'll be wonderful the first time it happens, but it hasn't happened yet. Look at Rupert Everett, who was getting bigger and bigger screen projects (though not even aiming to be an action star) until he went public, then he suddenly seemed to vanish from our screens.

While I don't disagree with your point, I'm not sure I agree with your example of Rupert Everett. As far as I can tell, the big roles dried up because he just started getting old, and looking closer to his age than a lot of Hollywood stars do. A lot of his bigger roles were costume dramas/comedies, and I think he got typecast in that sort of role.

John Barrowman, Neil Patrick Harris and Matt Bomer are the three biggest out male actors I can think of right now. Both have had good TV careers, and appeared in the odd movie, and I do think Bomer would have broken through in a bigger way, if he was either straight or closeted. Of course, there's Kristen Stewart who looks set to become the biggest out movie star. Ellen Page too, but her star seems to have fallen a little.

However, for Lito? I think he could have a good career as an actor still, but not as an action star. Those movies are almost completely testosterone driven, and the show has taken pains to portray the Mexican movies business as a very macho, no nonsense industry. The men are tough and taciturn, the women are either angry or swooning, all while wearing revealing outfits. Lito will have a lot of new fans, because of his speech in Brazil, but he'll have lost a lot of his old ones.

Edited May 28, 2017 by Danny Franks

[jhlipton]

8 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

So even though I was already fond of him, this made me love him.

I would hope that you were fond of your son, and even love him!  LOL!!!!

[Rinaldo]

6 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

John Barrowman, Neil Patrick Harris and Matt Bomer are the three biggest out male actors I can think of right now. Both have had good TV careers, and appeared in the odd movie, and I do think Bomer would have broken through in a bigger way, if he was either straight or closeted. Of course, there's Kristen Stewart who looks set to become the biggest out movie star. Ellen Page too, but her star seems to have fallen a little.

I'll give you John Barrowman, though the biggest part of his career is on British TV, whose attitudes I don't feel as qualified to speak about. Harris was on his sitcom for several seasons before coming out (and his ladies'-man Barney persona definitely had its jokey component; even so, I admit his continued visibility in that situation was something that hadn't happened before); his work since has been in restricted oddball situations far from any leading-man connotation. We basically agree about Bomer (who also came out publicly well into his series' run; we'll never know if he'd have been cast in the first place, had he made that choice earlier); his biggest work other than the series has been as a member of a large male ensemble cast in the Magic Mike movies, and in a gay role in a cable drama.

To be blunt about it, Stewart, Page, et al don't belong in this discussion, as women coming out are a whole different sociological situation. It's more nuanced than a short discussion can manage, but the summary would be that lesbians are seen by the straight men who dominate the biz as twice as sexy (while gay men are twice as disgusting), so they remain castable -- though probably just in certain sorts of roles.

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, jhlipton said:

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So even though I was already fond of him, this made me love him.

I would hope that you were fond of your son, and even love him!  LOL!!!!

Poor writing, and using a gender neutral noun (actually it was my daughter). LOL.

Edited May 29, 2017 by Clanstarling

[Anela]

On 5/27/2017 at 1:55 PM, jhlipton said:

I'd have to watch again, but she struck me as a "New Age" Cali "Buddhist" (she had a lot of tattoos as I recall, which is much more a New Age thing than a Buddhist thing).  As such, her being "all about me" made sense.

This is something that's put me off Buddhism - those I know who got into it, seemed to use it as an excuse to treat others badly, and then get away with it (or try to). One person in particular. 

Anyway, I almost stopped watching this after the Christmas episode, because I was feeling jealous of fictional characters, and their bond/the way they can be together when someone is feeling lonely, or needs help. That scene at the cemetery was very sweet, though - and I also like Wolfgang. 

I like the detective, but don't really enjoy the flirtation via violence - although you could see that she wasn't comfortable being "seen" when she kicked it up a notch (literally, I guess), after he pointed out how special she is, and then they kissed a little while later - she knocked him out. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

So I guess the theme of this episode was parents? Not that I'm complaining because Neets' three dads are all awesome. I would watch a show with them and her mom just sitting around shooting the shit. Dani's parents, on the other hand, suck. The only point her father made was that she's not allowed to be sanctimonious when she's living off of a trust fund. But other than that, he sucks. He really thinks he can just order her to get on a plane and reconcile with her abusive boyfriend? Great parenting.

Poor Lito - getting dumped by his agency. The hug he got from the stranger in the elevator was awesome though. And I loved Wolfgang showing up to offer to help him kick Joaquin's ass.

When Sun went to the cemetery, I was afraid that her brother would show up so I was relieved that it was just the hot detective. He may be improving, but she is still so much better. I loved that when their fight started, she didn't even flinch and then swatted him away. I also loved that beforehand, everyone in the cluster showed up to talk to her and they talked about their families. As much as I love them jumping in to kick other people's asses and that sort of thing, I love the emotional support that they provide for each other.

I have a hard time that Rajan had a sudden change of heart just because of the look on Kala's face. That guy is in it for the money. I was so sickened when his initial reaction to Kala telling him that all the reports were fake was, "You're even more beautiful when you're upset." Could this guy get any more patronizing? Gawd. I suspect that his big apology was just to lull her into thinking he's making changes so that he has time to cover his tracks. Hopefully he isn't as crazy as Sun's brother that he would kill to protect his precious company.

I understand Diego's anger. It's bad enough to miss your BFF but it's even more difficult when he just drops off the face of the earth without a word for an entire year. Even though we know Will had a pretty good reason for his disappearance, that doesn't mean it was an easier for Diego to deal with the past year.

Riley is a lot braver than I am. If someone told me to go to a creepy burnt out church where someone had killed herself, I would have run in the opposite direction!