S04.E20: The Debt Collector

[MostlyC]

Red turns to an unlikely source for help when a mercenary known as the Debt Collector goes after Liz; Ressler faces an unexpected problem while trying to stay ahead of Agent Gale's investigation.

[Chaos Theory]

Serious question:  Are we suppose to be rooting for Red?  He kidnapped Liz.  A federal agent.   If I was Liz I would shoot Red and let Mr. Kaplan disappear me.  That's just me though.

Team Kaplan.  All the way!

Edited May 12, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[ItCouldBeWorse]

If Red was late, The Collector might have gotten tired of waiting and started to debt collect on Liz; then what?

[Just my 2 cents]

I know this is the wrong episode to bring this up, but a few episodes ago Red was on the verge of death and Mr. Kaplan was thought to be dead.  If that was the case and the whole point of him being in Liz's life is to protect her, is Dembe the backup?  Also, I'm feeling conflicted about my enjoyment without Tom.  This is probably due to the popularity he has with some of the other viewers.  I was never a fan of Tom's.  I just realized he hasn't been on the last few shows and I'm not really noticing that he's missing.  He's actually being wasted on TBL even when they try to include him in the storylines practicing his skill set.

[calipiano81]

5 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

If Red was late, The Collector might have gotten tired of waiting and started to debt collect on Liz; then what?

The debt collector wasn't going to harm Liz. He was hired and received instructions not to.

[calipiano81]

3 hours ago, ally said:

I know this is the wrong episode to bring this up, but a few episodes ago Red was on the verge of death and Mr. Kaplan was thought to be dead.  If that was the case and the whole point of him being in Liz's life is to protect her, is Dembe the backup?  Also, I'm feeling conflicted about my enjoyment without Tom.  This is probably due to the popularity he has with some of the other viewers.  I was never a fan of Tom's.  I just realized he hasn't been on the last few shows and I'm not really noticing that he's missing.  He's actually being wasted on TBL even when they try to include him in the storylines practicing his skill set.

Redemption really is a better vehicle for Tom. I enjoyed the 8-episode run they gave us. However, if it doesn't get renewed (it's not looking good), Tom will be coming back to the mother ship where they will have to make use of him somehow.

[Just my 2 cents]

Quote

4 hours ago, calipiano81 said:

Redemption really is a better vehicle for Tom. I enjoyed the 8-episode run they gave us. However, if it doesn't get renewed (it's not looking good), Tom will be coming back to the mother ship where they will have to make use of him somehow.

I was thinking about that and it's really a waste for Ryan Eggold.  It's like he's being held by a contract when he might be able to move on to another show.  He could be valuable in something like Taken, Blindspot, a new detective for SVU or one of those new dramas on CBS.

[Biggie B]

I was glad that there was a brief mention of Agnes' nanny. I don't recall a nanny ever being talked about or shown before. And thank goodness, because with both Liz and Tom running all over creation and facing life-or-death situations on a daily basis, someone's got to be watching that baby!

I am not on either team - I like Red and I like Mr. Kaplan. Both are compelling characters with all sorts of issues and weird history. I wouldn't want either one to be killed off.

I'm glad Samar was not all bitter and bitchy this episode; that was getting pretty tiresome. I don't like that other agent, Ressler's former partner, whatever his name is, Gale? Who was he trying to shoot, Red?

If the whole point of Red's existence is to protect Liz, what would happen if she was killed? What would change for Red (setting aside the issue of Mr. Kaplan for the moment)? Yes, of course, emotionally, he'd be a mess, but...his way of life would still continue, right? I guess I'm also assuming he's not her bio-dad.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

6 hours ago, calipiano81 said:

11 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

If Red was late, The Collector might have gotten tired of waiting and started to debt collect on Liz; then what?

The debt collector wasn't going to harm Liz. He was hired and received instructions not to.

Yes, but he admitted to being a sadist - can you really trust him if he has time on his hands and the client doesn't show?  (although Mr. Kaplan would have rescued her, I suppose.)  ALso, Liz could have been accidentally harmed trying to escape from the Debt Collector.  Didn't we just hear about another kidnapper hired by Red who was instructed not to hurt the victim and things went terribly wrong?  Red doesn't learn from his own history!

2 hours ago, Biggie B said:

I don't like that other agent, Ressler's former partner, whatever his name is, Gale? Who was he trying to shoot, Red?

It looked like he was trying to shoot Red, but he is either a bad shot, or he wanted to change the dynamics of the FBI being there to arrest him so that he can now play a game with Ressler.  Maybe Gale is someone with a history who belongs on the blacklist.  I'm not crazy about this plot, but I guess the show needs a new enemy.

When Liz asked Kate if she could live in a world with Red still in it and she said "no", I thought she was going to pull off her hairpiece to reveal her wound and say that she was dying from Red's attack on her, and she was going to take him with her.

Edited May 12, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[TigerLynx]

They've been at this same stalemate for how many episodes now?

I can't believe it, but I was actually saying shut up Dembe when Red and Dembe were talking about Kaplan.

When Liz told Red the shot had not come from either Kaplan's or Red's men, and Red said there was another player now, I thought, "That is the last thing we need.  The current players, except for Kaplan, can't get a damn thing done, and this show has become like Lost were not a single question was ever answered."

[Princess Lucky]

7 hours ago, calipiano81 said:

The debt collector wasn't going to harm Liz. He was hired and received instructions not to.

 

41 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Yes, but he admitted to being a sadist - can you really trust him if he has time on his hands and the client doesn't show?  (although Mr. Kaplan would have rescued her, I suppose.)  ALso, Liz could have been accidentally harmed trying to escape from the Debt Collector.  Didn't we just hear about another kidnapper hired by Red who was instructed not to hurt the victim and things went terribly wrong?  Red doesn't learn from his own history!7

Exactly! We saw it just last week, you can't trust a crazy person not to murder someone just because you told them to! That's insane, that Red would put her in danger like th... wait, that's actually perfectly consistent with Red's behavior all these years.

I think the main issue is that Red's entire life and criminal empire and whatever are all dedicated to protecting Liz, and no one cares about Liz (I'm referring to the viewers). Like, let her die, Raymond. It's fine. No one will miss her.

I gotta say, I've done a complete 180 on Gale. He is now my favorite character*. I don't know what Enrique Murciano thinks he's doing, and how self-aware he is (I remember him being a somewhat reserved actor, at least on Without A Trace, so I would hope/assume he's doing it on purpose), but he's giving me Nic Cage vibes and I am all for it.

*save for Mr. Kaplan

1 minute ago, TigerLynx said:

I can't believe it, but I was actually saying shut up Dembe when Red and Dembe were talking about Kaplan.

I know! I wonder if Dembe was the voice of the writers, and was also supposed to be the voice of the audience? A way to get us to agree that Mr. Kaplan needs to die, and Red is in the right? If so, shut up, Dembe. Red almost killed you five minutes ago. What do you know?

[ItCouldBeWorse]

6 minutes ago, Princess Lucky said:

shut up, Dembe. Red almost killed you five minutes ago. What do you know?

When Red was talking about the few people he had loved, shouldn't Dembe have been on the list?

[saber5055]

You guys make some good points that I missed. Like yes, Red kidnapped Lizzie, a federal agent. How is THAT okay? And he did it so he could confront AND KILL Mr. Kaplan using Lizzie as bait. And you're good with that, Liz? Thank goodness for Agent Gale, although how Red knew there was a "third player" after that shot (when he just stood there instead of taking cover) is beyond me. Either Gale's scope is way off or he pulled that shot to warn Red ... who knows. But now Ressler and team are busted, and I'm all for Gale taking them down, along with Red. He will save Mr. Kaplan from doing it all by herself. And what kind of a dumbass is Lizzie, not locking her door while packing so Wade Williams (Hi, Belleck!) could walk in and take her. Oh, right, it's Lizzie. And it is funny that Red exists to keep her safe while constantly putting her in danger, plus I wish she were gone from this show. Gone ... you know, like Agnes and those two dogs. And poor Dembe ... Red is your BFF yet he doesn't give you a thought. Maybe you'll know the real Red when you open that brown-paper-bag-wrapped gift he gave you. Maybe you should peek inside while you are still alive.

[milkyaqua]

Ah, yes, Lizzie at the apartment packing...all by herself.  For someone who was supposed to be under guard, that was eye roll inducing and Liz doesn't need anymore help in that department.

And yes, Red kidnapping Lizzie to smoke out Mr. Kaplan.  At what point does Liz get a backbone and tell Red to stick it?

As for Gale, I don't know what he's up to.  He's either the world's worst shot for an FBI agent or he's got some plan to play with Red and the Task Force since he does come off as completely nuts.

Also show, I don't care about whether or not Red is or isn't Lizzie's dad.  Didn't care at the beginning and still don't care...

[ItCouldBeWorse]

2 hours ago, milkyaqua said:

As for Gale, I don't know what he's up to.  He's either the world's worst shot for an FBI agent or he's got some plan to play with Red and the Task Force since he does come off as completely nuts.

Yes, exactly.  And both Red and Kaplan somehow managed to get away. I thought that Kaplan might get shot and Red would be in mourning, but I suppose the producers realize she is too valuable a character to kill.

So, does Marvin Gerard get out of jail since he didn't betray the task force?

Edited May 12, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Biggie B]

Fisher Stevens' neck is so thin that I thought his head might flop over onto his shoulder.

[atlantaloves]

Exactly -- Fisher is not rocking that E.T. look AT ALL....God, is he sick in real life?...well that was one screwy episode, but hey has long as Mr. Kaplan is still l alive, I am one happy nervous camper in the woods. 

[Dowel Jones]

My question is why did all the agents stand stock still while both principals were getting away, on foot no less.  The FBI had rifles just as the snipers did.  It's not like they were helpless.

On 5/11/2017 at 8:28 PM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

If Red was late, The Collector might have gotten tired of waiting and started to debt collect on Liz; then what?

Well, since his specialty was extracting revenge in the manner that the target allegedly had done his client wrong, in this case he would laboriously build a profile of Liz until she committed suicide in frustration.

[dwmarch]

16 hours ago, Princess Lucky said:

I gotta say, I've done a complete 180 on Gale. He is now my favorite character*. I don't know what Enrique Murciano thinks he's doing, and how self-aware he is (I remember him being a somewhat reserved actor, at least on Without A Trace, so I would hope/assume he's doing it on purpose), but he's giving me Nic Cage vibes and I am all for it.

Well, I'm glad someone is enjoying his performance! He reminds me of a Youtube quote I saw once about a rapper of questionable skill... "It's like Benzino took brain damage in a fall and woke up thinking he was RA the Rugged Man." I have no idea what any of that means but I am sure it fits!

[Johnny Dollar]

Why did they make such a big deal of Liz breaking out of her cuffs when she was in the van, and then not have her try to escape when the back of the door was open?  Did they change writers mid-episode?

Sorry, but I just can't take Gale seriously. Way too cartoonish on a show that's unbelievable enough. 

Why wouldn't Harold have Gale transferred to the Anchorage office if he's going to screw up the task force?  He seemed to turn up out of the blue as if he wasn't doing anything over the last four years. 

I now know why Trump fired Comey. After watching the Tee Vee and seeing how incompetent the FBI is in shows like The Blacklist, Blindspot and Designated Survivor, he had to make the change. My prediction for the next FBI director?  Efrem Zimbalist, Jr. 

[TigerLynx]

15 hours ago, iheartET said:

2) What was Red’s purpose of surrendering himself to the FBI in the first place?

I don't think there is going to be any explanation Red, Kaplan, Dembe or anyone else makes that is going to be satisfying.  Years of lies, crimes, no answers, and people getting killed right and left, and for what?  Red built a criminal empire to protect/save Liz from what?  He killed the man who raised Liz and she thought of as her father because?  Red shot Kaplan.  Red supposedly sent Tom to watch over Liz (and that's a retcon) why.  Red turns himself into the FBI, and makes enemies of everyone on the Blacklist because of Liz why?  And yet Red won't answer one single question about anything.

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My question is why did all the agents stand stock still while both principals were getting away, on foot no less.  The FBI had rifles just as the snipers did.  It's not like they were helpless.

When they showed Kaplan and her men casually strolling through the woods after the lamest shoot out ever, I laughed.  I guess the FBI agents are in really lousy shape, or can't track worth a damn.

Edited May 13, 2017 by TigerLynx

[paigow]

How many other pathetic euphemisms are there for killer..."Inventory Clerk"; "Cable Guy"; "Pool Boy"; Mechanic...

[Just my 2 cents]

Yeah, Red is great.  He's so great he's selfish.  Liz only has a connection to him.  He won't tell her why he's has insinuated himself into her entire life starting at the age of 5 or 6.  If it weren't for Red she never would have met that "wonderful" husband of hers.  Forget that Liz's childhood nanny was not allowed to connect with her, her foster dad was murdered by Red, and oh what about the fact that Masha has a grandfather and Agnes a great grandfather.  I'm with someone else that posted on here about telling him to stick it.  I think by now I would have thanked him for all he's done for me because there's no amount of gratitude that can be given for that, but with that said I would have told him goodbye and to go straight to hell.

[ottoDbusdriver]

On 5/12/2017 at 9:03 AM, Biggie B said:

I was glad that there was a brief mention of Agnes' nanny. I don't recall a nanny ever being talked about or shown before. And thank goodness, because with both Liz and Tom running all over creation and facing life-or-death situations on a daily basis, someone's got to be watching that baby!

I am not on either team - I like Red and I like Mr. Kaplan. Both are compelling characters with all sorts of issues and weird history. I wouldn't want either one to be killed off.

I'm glad Samar was not all bitter and bitchy this episode; that was getting pretty tiresome. I don't like that other agent, Ressler's former partner, whatever his name is, Gale? Who was he trying to shoot, Red?

If the whole point of Red's existence is to protect Liz, what would happen if she was killed? What would change for Red (setting aside the issue of Mr. Kaplan for the moment)? Yes, of course, emotionally, he'd be a mess, but...his way of life would still continue, right? I guess I'm also assuming he's not her bio-dad.

The nanny has never been shown yet.

On 5/12/2017 at 11:16 AM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Yes, but he admitted to being a sadist - can you really trust him if he has time on his hands and the client doesn't show?  (although Mr. Kaplan would have rescued her, I suppose.)  ALso, Liz could have been accidentally harmed trying to escape from the Debt Collector.  Didn't we just hear about another kidnapper hired by Red who was instructed not to hurt the victim and things went terribly wrong?  Red doesn't learn from his own history!

It was mentioned just last episode, so with it fresh in his mind you would think Red would maybe want to avoid that situation again.

On 5/12/2017 at 1:01 PM, milkyaqua said:

Ah, yes, Lizzie at the apartment packing...all by herself.  For someone who was supposed to be under guard, that was eye roll inducing and Liz doesn't need anymore help in that department.

.......

Also show, I don't care about whether or not Red is or isn't Lizzie's dad.  Didn't care at the beginning and still don't care...

So what happened to Red's detail at Lizzie's apartment -- are they dead ?  Of course not, since Red arranged the kidnapping they probably went for coffee across the street.

On 5/12/2017 at 3:04 PM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Yes, exactly.  And both Red and Kaplan somehow managed to get away. I thought that Kaplan might get shot and Red would be in mourning, but I suppose the producers realize she is too valuable a character to kill.

How did anyone escape through the woods -- on foot -- from the FBI ?

There has been way too much walking through the woods this season, so we know that people do not move quickly through the woods.

On 5/13/2017 at 3:28 PM, paigow said:

How many other pathetic euphemisms are there for killer..."Inventory Clerk"; "Cable Guy"; "Pool Boy"; Mechanic...

Let's add to that list -- Janitor.

Lizzie was ridiculous during the shootout throwing up her arms and telling everyone to stop shooting.  For starters, no one listens to Lizzie anyway.

Yet again, this episode was so dull.  Even the gunfight because we just knew that no one important would get shot.

[saber5055]

You guys are the best part of this show, which is such a mess, nothing makes any sense. So there are still "puzzle pieces" to put together, but I'm afraid this show is comprised of 10 (or more) puzzles with missing pieces that have all been mixed together to make this season (and all the seasons before) of The Blacklist. It's just a mess. But makes for fun online reading, so there's that.

[Mrs OldManBalls]

On 2017-05-12 at 11:42 PM, iheartET said:

LOL line:

Student: Send me to the principal's office?

Kaplan: No, son. I'm gonna send you to the morgue.

They should spin off Mr. Kaplan as the no nonsense principal of a troubled school district. 

[NeverLate]

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I am surprised Dembe is so determined to have Kate killed.

For how many seasons, Dembe barely said one word. This last episode, its like he had bird seed to eat, that guy couldn't stop talking LOL

[TheGreenWave]

This entire episode solidified for me that the entire taskforce has Stockholm Syndrome.  Liz is just "cool" with Red having her kidnapped by a psychopath murderer??  Holy shit.  I also felt pained for Cooper, who was reduced to the lines of: "is Kaplan behind this?" or "are you sure Kaplan isn't behind this?" and "are you really, really sure Kaplan isn't behind this?" Good God.  With how much Red has manipulated them, absolutely no one thought something might be amiss???  Also agree with everyone that I could not believe Dembe's blood thirst for Kate.  Yeah, she's trying to destroy Red BECAUSE HE SHOT HER IN THE HEAD AND LEFT HER FOR DEAD A$$HOLE.  At least she's just trying to get him in prison, not actually kill him.  Shut up, Dembe.

Although, my most favorite line in the whole episode, courtesy of Liz of course, was when she said that the bullet that almost shot Red was not from the FBI or Kaplan's men, but from a third person.  First of all, how in the hell would they know it didn't match any of Kaplan's team's guns?  Don't you need a gun to run a ballistic test against?  What, did they just leave the guns so the FBI could test them?  Second, it would have made more sense for them to say that the bullet was consistent with a law enforcement issued rifle or something.  That was just dumb.