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S02.E11: The Rattening


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Am I to understand that Julia took Alice's shade instead of her own?  That was....completely nuts.  People do crazy things on this show.  I guess that keeps it entertaining.  It was also very compassionate.  So Julia remains morally questionable?  And what do we do with Alice's shade?  Can you bring her back from that?

The dragon was cool!  I'm not sure I would have been brave enough to expect to find Julia's shade and be back in 24 hours before I got eaten.

I was afraid Reynard found Julia in the bowling alley.  Then I realized it was Richard and it was a poignant scene.  He seems happy in the underworld, and he has the chance to find his son, so that's nice.

It was Persephone they were trying to invoke?  Reynard loved her?  Hmmm, the plot thickens.

Good show!

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(edited)

I enjoyed this episode. I wish we could have had the chance to see more of the underworld but it was overall good. The little kids performing miracles in elysium were so cute and I loved little shade! Alice and little shade! Julia. When I saw that Julia brought back Alice's shade instead of her own I immediately thought about that being a really great thing to do for Quentin, but now I wonder if maybe Julia doesn't want her shade back? 

Richard and Julia's friends were back! They appear to be doing okay too, I'm glad they at-least aren't alone in the underworld. I enjoy Penny's library centered story-lines but I'm not sure where they're going with the poison room plot: it seems a bit late in the season to introduce something so new for Kady and Penny.

Edited by grandemocha
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I think the Poison Room plot will probably end up being a cliffhanger honestly... like they get in and find something completely out of left-field that shapes what we expect for next season (ex. the Legends crashing in 2017 Los Angeles where dinosaurs and completely different buildings are present and "Guys, I think we just BROKE time.").

I also really have to hand to the writers in that, even though she's been "dead" since episode three, they've managed to keep Alice a part of the story via a variety of means and in such a way that the actress herself has currently only not appeared in two episodes. Its a change from the books, but a necessary one given the nature of television budgets and contracts.

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Ahhh, maybe Julia doesn't need her shade to grow some compassion.  That or she thinks if Q can bring Alice back she will help against Reynard.  Speaking of which, nice to see his son is realizing what an asshole his father is.

So what happened to Persephone that made her disappear or go away?  Maybe Reynard annoyed her too.

I love the story lines, so different from the books.  The dragon was a hoot. And now they have to figure out a way back to Fillory.  "The original door is still open."  Does that mean the Chatwin clock?

So what or who is magicking Fillory and kicked Elliot out?  I'm thinking Ember.  I hope Margo can fix her problem and get Elliot back. I guess he got kicked for suggesting democracy? 

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Wow, so NO ONE is in charge of Fillory right now. The High King got popped back to Brakebills, the High Queen is in the dungeon, Quentin is in the underworld, and Alice is off being a niffin. That wouldn't bode well under normal circumstances but now that they're under attack, it's even worse.

Is Julia going to be the Spike of The Magicians? Although normally my assumption whenever Julia does anything is that she somehow thinks she will benefit from it, we've seen small moments where Shadeless Julia seemed to be feeling human emotions. I think when she saw Quentin so happy while interacting with Alice's shade, she had one of those moments and decided to do something that she knew could help Quentin get Alice back (maybe to make up for one of the other moments when she felt emotion aka when she almost let Reynard kill Quentin).

I think she also knows that (1) getting Alice's shade back into Alice is not going to be a quick or easy task not the least of which is complicated by the fact that they don't even know here Alice is right now and (2) even if they manage to reunite Alice with her shade, Alice might not want to help Julia go after Reynard. So shockingly, I came to the conclusion that Julia's actions were not selfish. That might be the first time in two seasons!

I really felt for Julia when she saw Richard. It must have been so hard to look at the face that brutally raped her and know that it's a different guy.

I also felt bad for the senator when he realized that he's been inadvertently controlling his wife. When Julia, Kady, and Penny initially approached him, did they tell him that Reynard killed his mother? Maybe if they had led with that, he would have joined them sooner. I hope he stays on the good side. His compulsion power is a very dangerous thing so hopefully he will make an extreme effort not to use it.

I was super excited that they were going to incorporate the dragon into the show somehow. I was also thinking of Butters on South Park complaining about Game of Thrones ("They're always promising we're going to see some dragons but instead it's just a bunch of gay weiners flopping around"). We didn't actually see weiners, but Eliot and his soon to be husband were about to whip theirs out plus we got naked Josh, so that counts for something, right? Heh, I totally loved the dragon as well as Quentin's attitude after Julia extracted his molar: "This dragon better be really fucking cool."

I hated seeing Eliot and Margo's trust and friendship disappear. I did laugh that even as Eliot was having her tossed in the dungeon, he told the guards to make sure that she got her coconut oil. And wow, Abigail has been running an escort service? Damn! I just wish Eliot had started pouring truth potion into drinks sooner. He should definitely use some on the FU Fighter in the dungeon and get as much information out of him as possible.

Loved Penny blatantly hitting on the librarian to get information and failing miserably. The way she shut him down both personally and professionally was hilarious. I bet that doesn't happen to him often!

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1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

When Julia, Kady, and Penny initially approached him, did they tell him that Reynard killed his mother? Maybe if they had led with that, he would have joined them sooner. I hope he stays on the good side.

I don't know that they know for sure Reynard killed Dana, although it almost certainly probable.  If they had told him, there may have also been some uncomfortable follow up questions, that may have revealed that Julia and Kady didn't have a good meeting with Dana and they took away her Reynard protection.

Hopefully, if Elliot gets back to Fillory, he can set the kingdom straight and stop the embezzlement and escort service.  No wonder FU is made at the kingdom.  In the meantime, Fillory has been without rulers before, I'm sure it will be again.  I just wonder if Margo can continue being queen if there's no high king.  If Q gets back before Elliot, does he get promoted?  If Elliot is no longer high king, does this mean his child is worthless to the fairies?

I assume that the reason Julia and Q could only take 1 shade out was because Julia was missing hers.  Otherwise, why not take out both?  It was nice that Julia was able to see her group again, even under the circumstances, and they appeared happy (ish at least).

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This episode felt very scattered, especially after last week's more cohesive one. It occurs to me that this show has enough ideas to fill several other shows, and consequently plot points come and go so rapidly it's hard to keep track of them all. It also seems like ideas are never fully explored before they are discarded and we move onto something else. 

We've got about four different things going on in Fillory: the war, the Foo Fighters, the deal with the Faeries and the Ratting; we've got Quentin and Julia off searching for Julia's shade and Quentin's never-ending quest to resurrect Alice (which he seems to do almost every episode - it's hard to see how he's had a chance to miss her yet), we've got Penny and Kady trying to take down Renard, we've got this Senator guy being manipulated by Renard, we've got Penny trying to get his magic back, we've got all these partiers at the dorm at Brakebills . . . there's just too much going on.

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I assume that the reason Julia and Q could only take 1 shade out was because Julia was missing hers.  Otherwise, why not take out both?

This really wasn't explained very well. How would Julia get the shade back . . . into her? Also, did she have the big hole in her stomach because she was missing her shade or was that something else? If it was the missing shade why did she say it was closing up in the Underworld? 

I had forgotten that Reynard had taken the form of one of Julia's cult members. But that being the case, why does Reynard still use that form? 

The receptionist said Quentin and Julia had died 38 times as a result of a time loop, meaning there shouldn't be 38 other versions of them, so I don't even see how there's a Alice Shade from one of those versions. This is another concept I don't think the writers have a strong grasp on. 

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2 hours ago, Hanahope said:

I assume that the reason Julia and Q could only take 1 shade out was because Julia was missing hers.  Otherwise, why not take out both?  It was nice that Julia was able to see her group again, even under the circumstances, and they appeared happy (ish at least).

I think it's because when they leave the underworld, there can only be one shade per person. Quentin has his shade, so that leaves room for Julia plus one shade to leave. I have a feeling that in the book, they explicitly stated certain rules about entering/leaving the underworld but I've forgotten most of what was in the second and third books so I could be totally remembering that incorrectly. But I agree that whatever the logic for only taking one shade was not really explained in this episode. I think at most, Julia said, "You know that's not how it works," or something to that effect. No, Julia, I don't know how it works because I've never gone to the underworld, let alone tried to steal someone's shade back so please elucidate!

1 minute ago, iMonrey said:

This really wasn't explained very well. How would Julia get the shade back . . . into her? Also, did she have the big hole in her stomach because she was missing her shade or was that something else? If it was the missing shade why did she say it was closing up in the Underworld? 

I had forgotten that Reynard had taken the form of one of Julia's cult members. But that being the case, why does Reynard still use that form?

Last week they touched on it briefly but really only to say that the longer the shade has been separated from the person, the harder it is to reunite them which is why Julia and Quentin made it a priority to get her shade back as quickly as possible. I think Dean Fogg said that after a certain point, it's not possible anymore. I think the hole in Julia's stomach represented the opening for the shade to re-enter her, and once it's closed then her shade can't be magically put back into her.

I don't think they've addressed why Reynard is still in Richard's body but I assumed that he wasn't able to take on his actual corporeal form here on earth. I think when they summoned him, he needed a body to jump into in order to stay here. Then again, I might have too much of the "witch spirits jumping into bodies" plot from The Originals stuck in my head!

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2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I have a feeling that in the book, they explicitly stated certain rules about entering/leaving the underworld but I've forgotten most of what was in the second and third books so I could be totally remembering that incorrectly.

Spoiler

I don't recall the books discussing shades at all.  the book just mentioned that the Beast 'lost his humanity.'

Discussed the book, so spoiler tagged, just in case.  The reason for the underground in the book was completely different IIRC.  

 

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

don't even see how there's a Alice Shade from one of those versions.

I don't think Alice's shade is from a prior death, I think its what happened when she became a niffin.  A niffin has no morals, it doesn't care what happens to other people, just like the Beast did, someone without a shade.  A niffin is different because its a 'magical being', but it still seems to act as if it doesn't have a shade.  I'm sure Q had no idea that's what happened, he was as surprised to see Alice's shade as Julia (and we were).

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Way back they (the fillorians) told Elliot that if he became high king and married, he could only "be with" his wife (and couldn't leave Fillory)  It might have also been in the books Q read, but it only mentioned heterosexual marriage.  Once Elliot marries the other king, he can 'be with' him too.

That was why Margo created the golem Elliot so he could 'be with' someone else back on Earth.

of course now that Elliot got kicked out, I wonder if he can have sex with anyone again and if so would it adversely affect his ability to return to Fillory and be high king again.

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2 hours ago, Hanahope said:

Way back they (the fillorians) told Elliot that if he became high king and married, he could only "be with" his wife (and couldn't leave Fillory)  It might have also been in the books Q read, but it only mentioned heterosexual marriage.  Once Elliot marries the other king, he can 'be with' him too.

That was why Margo created the golem Elliot so he could 'be with' someone else back on Earth.

of course now that Elliot got kicked out, I wonder if he can have sex with anyone again and if so would it adversely affect his ability to return to Fillory and be high king again.

Got it. I only caught the not leaving Fillory part.

I'm really curious about how the high king/queen situation will shake out by the end of the season? Like if they'll fill all four thrones again or not...

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The Fillory stuff is starting to bore me and that includes Margo and Eliot unfortunately. But I really enjoyed all the Julia and Quentin stuff this episode. Quentin's excitement at getting a strike during bowling and Richard telling Julia that they are always strikes during the first week there, and Julia's reply of "Just let him have this." I thought Quentin's reaction was perfect to shadeAlice. Surprise, then love then heartbreak quickly back to love and it was adorable the way shadeAlice was giving him waste hugs. Then Julia forgoing getting her shade to get Alice's out for Q after seeing them together. The whole dragon/underworld was fun.

So did I hear right that Willow/Meadow is the daughter of a magical crime boss and she is hiding out in the library to be protected from her fathers enemies?

Also wondering if Raynard's son is on the up and up in helping take him down or if he's been wammied by Raynard to infiltrate the team....

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12 hours ago, Terrafamilia said:

Two words I never thought to put together: Sphincter Magic

I really want to see Quentin's face when he finds out that Penny is learning butt magic.

1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

So did I hear right that Willow/Meadow is the daughter of a magical crime boss and she is hiding out in the library to be protected from her fathers enemies?

That's what she said but I don't know if I believe her. It seems too convenient that she's willing to help Penny. Maybe she's from some evil group that wants to get its hands on the dangerous magic in the poison room. Or hey, maybe Marlee Matlin sent her to infiltrate the library! She doesn't seem like one who gives up easily so I can see her having multiple plans to get her hands on what's in the poison room one way or another.

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8 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

The Fillory stuff is starting to bore me and that includes Margo and Eliot unfortunately.

I actually thought it got more interesting this episode - I was right at the edge of deciding to FF through the Fillory scenes. Not fond of Margo's Queen Bitch character, glad to see Eliot call her on it. Not that Eliot is a great or even good king by any measure - waaay to self-absorbed, that that could be said for pretty much any of these characters (eg: Penny, who never seems to learn that being a jerk to everyone has real consequences).

Watching this and The Expanse as my 2 TV shows - I like The Expanse quite a bit better.  Yay for Syfy, though, putting out much better stuff than network TV (although I tried to watch both Killjoys and Dark Matter and that seems much more standard "regular" TV fare).

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It wasn't explained very well, so I thought Julia had already got her shade back into her by the time they left with Alice's shade. Both who were adorable! Anyway, I think Julia might be whole, but good news is sparse in this show, so I am prepared to be wrong about that.

I, too, enjoyed the Julia story this time more than the Eliot story, which is rare. I hope Senator demi-god is on the up and up. I think he is.

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On 4/8/2017 at 9:39 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

That's what she said but I don't know if I believe her. It seems too convenient that she's willing to help Penny. Maybe she's from some evil group that wants to get its hands on the dangerous magic in the poison room. Or hey, maybe Marlee Matlin sent her to infiltrate the library! She doesn't seem like one who gives up easily so I can see her having multiple plans to get her hands on what's in the poison room one way or another.

I like this theory. Also maybe Marlee Matlin will come back, I like her.

18 hours ago, WildPlum said:

Watching this and The Expanse as my 2 TV shows - I like The Expanse quite a bit better.  Yay for Syfy, though, putting out much better stuff than network TV (although I tried to watch both Killjoys and Dark Matter and that seems much more standard "regular" TV fare).

I enjoyed Dark Matter but Killjoys is my favorite. 

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12 hours ago, Teitr Styrr said:

It wasn't explained very well, so I thought Julia had already got her shade back into her by the time they left with Alice's shade. Both who were adorable! Anyway, I think Julia might be whole, but good news is sparse in this show, so I am prepared to be wrong about that.

I, too, enjoyed the Julia story this time more than the Eliot story, which is rare. I hope Senator demi-god is on the up and up. I think he is.

I don't think that Julia had her shade because they had made it clear that you could only return with one.  That is why it was such a sacrifice.  Now maybe they will change the rules on that but it would mean coming up with some alternative narrative than what they presented here.

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Everything is better with Dragons! I loved that whole sequence, it was funny but also a little bit scary, just perfect for this show. I actually really liked Q and Julia's plot, which is kind of rare for me. Don't get me wrong, I like Q, but when he's with Julia he becomes so whiny and pathetic, and Julia has been off in her own show for so long, and did so many stupid things even before losing her shade, that its been hard to root for her. However, the journey through the afterlife was fun, and I was happy to see all of Julia's friends again, even Richard, who I was at first super creeped out seeing (being as his body is being used by Renard the Rape god), and that there's all happy bowling their way through Limbo. Awww Q was so happy to get his strike! And Julia bringing Alice's shade back is probably the nicest thing we have ever seen her do, even though I'm curious as to how she could do something so nice without her shade. Maybe she grew it back because of her selfless choice?

I'm assuming that the girl in the library has more going on then just being the Meadow Soprano of the magical world. No way would they spend so much time on her if she wasn't important. I like the extra time spent in the library, I'm a sucker for magical libraries.

I love Margo, but Elliot is totally right to be pissed off at her. She sold his unborn child to evil fairies, that's a pretty big issue to overcome in any friendship. I'm sure they'll make up, but it will take a ton of work to get there. I felt really bad for Reynard's son when he realized that his powers had been affecting his whole life, including his marriage, and that his dad is super creepy and evil. I hope he is really on the up and up. Also, he was apparently in love with Persephone, and is her VERY bitter ex? Interesting.

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(edited)

I can't remember the specifics so someone will need to remind me. Does the magic button take them back and forth from Fillory directly or does it just take them to the Neitherlands and you have to find the pool to your destination on your own?

Edited by Terrafamilia
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Thank you for linking this YouTube for us.  Even though we get The Magicians in Canada we cannot subscribe to the SyFy YouTube channel.  We can follow the direct link.

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I realised what's been bugging me about this season. It feels like prologue. All of this just feel like setup for season 3. I don't think they had a coherent plot for this season and needed to spend the time setting up the next one.

Having said that, Julia was bearable this episode. She took (some) (small) responsibility for her past actions and even did something a little bit selfless. Yes, that thing was mostly to assuage her guilt over killing Alice by helping Quentin to bring her back. Baby steps.

I said that Julia without a shade is possibly the better person. I find it conceptually problematic but it seems to be the case.

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  • 8 months later...

It's weird that Julia was acting more selfless without her soul/shade than she has been for the last couple of seasons. They seem to be playing fast and loose with the concept of a shade being your guilt/feelings. 

On the upside, Julia was more tolerable than usual and I FLoved the Dragon. "I'll eat you... I'm a dragon". Hilarious. 

ETA loved the moment when the Senator realized he'd been accidentally controlling his wife the entire time he knew her. 

Reynard being all emo about Persephone ditching him was both deeply hilarious and pathetic all at the same time. 

How many goodbyes is Quentin going to have with Alice? 

Edited by wayne67
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  • 3 months later...

I really liked this episode too... two good ones in a row.  I liked Julia and Quentin's adventures in the Underworld.  It was an amusing take on it, and having Julia's old friends to help was a nice touch.  The little shade kids were very cute.  I was surprised that Julia is gaining her humanity back without her shade.  I really hope that they will find a way to bring Alice back eventually.

The girl who works at the library is rather annoying, though I have a feeling bad things will happen if they get into the poison room.  I hope the Head Librarian doesn't get into any danger.... she's an awesome recurring character.  

Fillory was the weak link again.  Eliot is right that Margot pretty much caused their problems.  I am interested in seeing how she'll do against the Fairies, though.  

I like the Senator's son but I don't think things will end well for him.  

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